With gas prices soaring to $5.00 and above, what are your thoughts on electric vehicles. Are the 300 mile current range vehicles enough for you? Would you wait for something to approach 600 miles before buying? What are your thoughts? My wife and I live 30-40 miles from work and are spending $120 to $200 each weekly on gas. As you can see the EV option is looking really right now.
I’m in wait and see mode. I don’t drive much so the gas savings is minimal. There aren’t many options in the SUV category either.
Other consideration (and this one is more restrictive) is the need to be able to access 240V charging at home. That makes a huge huge difference in flexibility.
I have had my Tesla for 3 years and will never go back to ICE for my daily driver. It's made my life so so much more convenient... I waste so much less time at gas stations.
Happy to answer any questions on the subject.
I like the idea of EVs, but prices are high for what would be a direct replacement unless you want to settle for a smallish commuter car.
300 miles is still too short, unless all you do is go to work within 25/40 miles. And even that 300 miles is likely only 250 or so safely.
Part of the problem is the lack of suitable infrastructure to handle large numbers of EVs.
I also wonder what will happen to all the worn out batteries in 8 to 10 years down the road. Are they recyclable?
Other consideration (and this one is more restrictive) is the need to be able to access 240V charging at home. That makes a huge huge difference in flexibility.
I have had my Tesla for 3 years and will never go back to ICE for my daily driver. It's made my life so so much more convenient... I waste so much less time at gas stations.
Happy to answer any questions on the subject.
Thanks for the input. Has your electric bill gone up significantly? Also was it expensive to install the 240 V outlet in your home?
Why do you think the range is not sufficient? You could driver back and forth to work 3 times in a day at that mileage.
As long as you have 240V charging at home, you can deplete 150 miles in a day and be fully recharged in 5 hours.
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Range anxiety is mental, not a real issue unless you are regularly driving 250 miles in a shot..
Other consideration (and this one is more restrictive) is the need to be able to access 240V charging at home. That makes a huge huge difference in flexibility.
I have had my Tesla for 3 years and will never go back to ICE for my daily driver. It's made my life so so much more convenient... I waste so much less time at gas stations.
Happy to answer any questions on the subject.
Thanks for the input. Has your electric bill gone up significantly? Also was it expensive to install the 240 V outlet in your home?
I see Chevy/GM is adding the charging station as part of the purchase...not sure if 120v or 240v.
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Range anxiety is mental, not a real issue unless you are regularly driving 250 miles in a shot..
Other consideration (and this one is more restrictive) is the need to be able to access 240V charging at home. That makes a huge huge difference in flexibility.
I have had my Tesla for 3 years and will never go back to ICE for my daily driver. It's made my life so so much more convenient... I waste so much less time at gas stations.
Happy to answer any questions on the subject.
Thanks for the input. Has your electric bill gone up significantly? Also was it expensive to install the 240 V outlet in your home?
Electric bill - So its impossible for me to say it hasn't gone up. But at my house, everything I have is electric (no natural gas or oil).. I have electric heat pump/ac, hot water heater, range/oven, and pool filter... so my bill is always pretty high. I did a lot of math on electric cost vs premium gas for my 3 series BMW I had before and driving the Tesla is plain cheaper. Another thing to look into: many electric companies are starting to offer lower rates during nighttime non-peak hours! You can schedule your car charging to take place during these hours.
Charger install: One of the biggest factors here is where your charger will be in relation to your panel. I had my 240V outlet installed for ~$800 bucks. There is a federal tax credit for this cost though! I think it's 30%.. and it a credit, not just that it's tax deductible.
I've had a Tesla since 2015, a great car, and charge overnight at my house.
I like the idea of EVs, but prices are high for what would be a direct replacement unless you want to settle for a smallish commuter car.
I'll admit here that you aren't getting into a great EV for the same price as a Accord or Corolla.
But if your comparison is, for example, a 3 Series BMW.. a Model 3 is literally the exact same interior dimensions (almost as if Elon did this on purpose if you look at the numbers), and the total cost of ownership is way more cost effective.
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that go into switching from IC to EV. Use and distance among them.
I like the idea of EVs, but prices are high for what would be a direct replacement unless you want to settle for a smallish commuter car.
I'll admit here that you aren't getting into a great EV for the same price as a Accord or Corolla.
But if your comparison is, for example, a 3 Series BMW.. a Model 3 is literally the exact same interior dimensions (almost as if Elon did this on purpose if you look at the numbers), and the total cost of ownership is way more cost effective.
I own a GMC Terrain - midsize SUV. What would be comparable or close?
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In comment 15736027 section125 said:
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that go into switching from IC to EV. Use and distance among them.
I like the idea of EVs, but prices are high for what would be a direct replacement unless you want to settle for a smallish commuter car.
I'll admit here that you aren't getting into a great EV for the same price as a Accord or Corolla.
But if your comparison is, for example, a 3 Series BMW.. a Model 3 is literally the exact same interior dimensions (almost as if Elon did this on purpose if you look at the numbers), and the total cost of ownership is way more cost effective.
I own a GMC Terrain - midsize SUV. What would be comparable or close?
According to this link, Model Y is actually a bigger car.. more legroom, more cargo capacity
https://www.suvdrive.com/comparison/gmc-terrain-denali-2019-vs-tesla-model-y-2020 - ( New Window )
https://carbuzz.com/compare/gmc-terrain-vs-mazda-cx-5-vs-tesla-model-y - ( New Window )
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In comment 15736040 moze1021 said:
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In comment 15736027 section125 said:
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that go into switching from IC to EV. Use and distance among them.
I like the idea of EVs, but prices are high for what would be a direct replacement unless you want to settle for a smallish commuter car.
I'll admit here that you aren't getting into a great EV for the same price as a Accord or Corolla.
But if your comparison is, for example, a 3 Series BMW.. a Model 3 is literally the exact same interior dimensions (almost as if Elon did this on purpose if you look at the numbers), and the total cost of ownership is way more cost effective.
I own a GMC Terrain - midsize SUV. What would be comparable or close?
According to this link, Model Y is actually a bigger car.. more legroom, more cargo capacity
https://www.suvdrive.com/comparison/gmc-terrain-denali-2019-vs-tesla-model-y-2020 - ( New Window )
GMC Terrain - $36k
Tesla Model Y - $77k
If you drive 15,000 miles per year that’s $3k on gas at $5 a gallon. You’ll break even after 11 years and that’s not factoring in electric costs.
Thanks - my quick search had the Y a lot higher - but still that is almost double.
I like and someday will look toward buying a Tesla - but not at double the price.
I did a quick estimate on gas cost at $5/gal. Would cost me $1900 per year - add $150 for oil changes..
Just not cost effective even without adding the cost for charging which I think will be reasonable - $200/year guess..
At this point, for my purpose, EV would not be worth it.
Looking forward to it one day though. Eliminating the gas station trips is nice, not to mention the maintenance.
For EVs, you will continue to see more competition which will help (Honda/Acura, for example, won't release their first EV until the 2024 model year).
One thing to add - for many manufacturers, you may qualify for a $7500 tax credit. Here is a link for those who want to read up. Tesla does not qualify and Toyota is about to run out of full eligibility but EVs or PHEVs bought from most other manufacturers still do qualify.
Each individual state also may offer tax credits and your electric company may also offer incentives.
Tax credit - ( New Window )
Looking forward to it one day though. Eliminating the gas station trips is nice, not to mention the maintenance.
I think the competition will drop prices drastically within 5 years, also. The big boys are starting to take this seriously, GM and Mercedes IT departments unleashed will make big gains in the technology.
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. https://carbuzz.com/compare/gmc-terrain-vs-mazda-cx-5-vs-tesla-model-y - ( New Window )
Thanks - my quick search had the Y a lot higher - but still that is almost double.
I like and someday will look toward buying a Tesla - but not at double the price.
I did a quick estimate on gas cost at $5/gal. Would cost me $1900 per year - add $150 for oil changes..
Just not cost effective even without adding the cost for charging which I think will be reasonable - $200/year guess..
At this point, for my purpose, EV would not be worth it.
Yes... a more apt comparison is like a BMW X5 vs a Model Y.
That's when there is an economic win in addition to the convenience win..
After seeing the base model, I just wasn’t impressed. It’s a basic car that has an MSRP of $49k. Maybe the higher end trim levels are better but the base model did nothing for me.
Yes... a more apt comparison is like a BMW X5 vs a Model Y.
That's when there is an economic win in addition to the convenience win.. [/quote]
Yes that would be a better comparison. I just do not think I'd be throwing bags of cement, mulch, sod in my MX-5...My golf clubs would reside there well. But a GMC is just a fancy Chevy.
I am somewhat interested in seeing what the 2024 Chevy pickup truck will be like. They were talking over 500 mile range - which is easier in a 1/2 ton pickup truck(because of space and carrying capacity).
I think having a charger setup in your home will be a selling point in a future home sale.
As stated in other posts, it's a lifestyle decision as to whether or not it meets your needs. I am all for cleaning up the environment but for my current lifestyle, not for me.
As stated in other posts, it's a lifestyle decision as to whether or not it meets your needs. I am all for cleaning up the environment but for my current lifestyle, not for me.
Yeah this is what I was alluding to in my post earlier when I said: "Other consideration (and this one is more restrictive) is the need to be able to access 240V charging at home. That makes a huge huge difference in flexibility."
If you can't have 240V charge at home, the convenience factor of EV is thrown out.
So if you aren't in market for a luxury car or if you drive >200 miles per day or if you don't have ability to have a fast charger at home, then a bEV is not for you right now.
The car is great. It has features of a luxury car, performance of a sports car. That's why I bought it.
I would not buy an EV because of the price of gas though. EVs are expensive to buy. You would have to own it a long time to justify the gas savings.
Right now choosing an EV is based on a lot of factors and I agree with many of the points here. If you are a two car family and can place the 240V charger in your garage or driveway it may make sense have one of your cars be an EV.
I work for an EV manufacturer and have owned an EV for 4 years. Range anxiety is real in the sense that you feel anxiety but I have never run out of charge. However my work does offer 240V charging, there are a couple high speed chargers available in town, and I can charge on 120V at night if I am desperate.
Great and very practical car -- and I received a $7500 tax credit for purchasing it
Lotsa new batteries being developed
Quantumscape solid state battery keeps hitting milestones, but lotsa testing still needs to be done. They have aced everyone so far. Ceramic “ forever battery” that charges much quicker
Not a plug to go buy it, stock down 90% because it got hyped to death. But interesting one to keep tabs on. Funded for another couple yrs, VW invested heavily in it. 4 OEMs waiting on samples in 2023. Still has 3 billion market cap.
If you have solar, EVs could make sense. But I am not buying one because gas is high
Wouldn’t mind a Lucid in 5 yrs if price was down to 60k. ( still too expensive for me, never spent more than 35k on car. Just can’t see the point)
I believe every electric car maker is providing a warranty on the batteries of, at minimum, 8 years/100,000 miles.
I also have a preorder for a Rivian R1S, with expected delivery date of August but I don’t trust them at all.
I’ve done long car trips in my Model 3, I never have “range anxiety” but it does take some pre planning and a little patience. It’s not as simple as pulling off the thruway at the next exit.
We installed a 240V charger in our garage. I need to charge once a week. As far as I can tell, the impact to my electric bill is about the same as running my dryer. Part of that is because our electric company charged less for “off peak” hours, so the price per watt is very low. I just schedule an overnight charge during off peak times.
Here in the Pacific Northwest we pay 10 cents per KW and my Model 3 has a 72 KW battery, so to charge from empty to full is $7.20 for approximately 300 miles.
An ICE car that gets 25 mpg would need 12 gallons to go the same distance. You do the math.
As stated in other posts, it's a lifestyle decision as to whether or not it meets your needs. I am all for cleaning up the environment but for my current lifestyle, not for me.
^^^^^
THIS
Lots of issues including vehicle cost, cost and difficulty of charger installation, almost complete lack of charging facilities in most non-urban areas, inconvenience waiting for charging, cost of possible replacement of batteries, disposal of used batteries and other components, and the fact that significant materials come from Communist China.
Then there's this - the existing North American electrical grids are simply not going to support widespread use of electric cars on top of our burgeoning other uses for electricity (computers, entertainment devices, cell phones, air conditioners, electric heating, etc.) despite what all the green energy fanatics continue to claim. Green energy is as big a lie as has ever been spread. Windmills are not productive a good deal of the time, large scale solar is a blot on the landscape, both kill birds, both cause problems for aviation, and both require TEN times the physical space to generate equivalent energy as coal, oil, biomass, nuclear, or hydro power - all of which have their own drawbacks, too. Geothermal and wave action are limited to a few select areas of the earth. And continued growth of the grids will only add more visual and electromagnetic pollution to the earth as sub-stations and 765kv high lines continue to proliferate. Green energy is a losing proposition any way you look at it.
Electric cars probably do have a small place as commuter vehicles in the relatively near term, but overall they are as much of a dead end now as they were at the dawn of the automotive age. There's a reason that gas vehicles drove them out of the marketplace.
Natural gas and eventually fuel cells make a hell of a lot more sense to me.
Plenty of reasons why electric isn't right for an individual but the grid argument isn't one of them.
Your point about transmission is valid but there’s a lot of work being done to upgrade the grid currently.
I tend to agree with you about wind power and suspect well look back at those investments as a mistake. And don’t sleep on geothermal. Lots of interesting work being done in that area. To my mind, it’s a very interesting developing technology.
Dang... Poughkeepsie to Miami in a Long Range Model 3 will take you 25 hours.. just missed it...
Why I love my Model 3:
1. Gas Savings- I drive 250 miles per day. $5.00 for electricity to charge at home vs approximately $50.00 for gas (assume 10 gallons @ $5 per gallon) so $45 per day times 25 days per month equals $1125 per month. This exceeds the monthly car payment on a six year car loan!
2. Maintenance Savings - There is literally no maintenance schedule. Just keep an eye on the tires and get an alignment once in a while. There is no engine so no oil, spark plugs, filters, belts or hoses, starter, alternator, radiator, transmission, exhaust system etc. The car self diagnoses and let’s you know if anything needs to be addressed. The break pads wear much slower since you tap the break pedal much less frequently due to the regenerative breaking, ie the car slows down when you lift up on the accelerator (gas pedal). I’m at 90k miles and the pads are still fine. After 3.5 years I’ve spent nothing on maintenance other than tires, up until about a month ago when a seat belt sensor failed. Tesla sent a Mobil unit to my driveway the next day and replaced it in 10 minutes for $150.
3. It always starts. It never not starts. It’s like turning ona light switch. Also there are so few mechanical parts you never hear a noise and worry, uh oh that’s going to be $800!
4. It’s one of the safest cars ever tested.
5. They estimate the car will last a million miles, with a battery swap at the half million mile mark at a cost of an estimated $10k or so. Battery technology is constantly improving and it’s likely the costs will actually go down as improvements are made in the years to come.
6. Free software updates that make the car better via Wi-Fi while I’m charging at home. They want you to keep the car, not trade it in every three years. No built in product obsolescence.
7. It’s comfortable and fun to drive. Amazing acceleration, sporty feel, low center of gravity gives it a great feel for the road.
8. And it’s green.
Concerns and negatives:
1. Costs to install charger - the electrician charged $150 to add a 220V outlet in my garage and the level 2 charging unit was under $300. It’s the size of a shoe box, attaches easily to the wall, and adds 30 miles of range per hour. So I charge every night, like a cell phone.
2. If something goes wrong with the computer system they can address it remotely via Wi-Fi. Or they’ll send a remote serviceman to your location, home or on the road, at no charge!
3. Environmental concerns - “Battery disposal” and “ electricity from coal”. Honestly I couldn’t care less. The best scientific minds are working on the former, and here in the PNW we get most of our power from Hydro. Switching to clean energy is a greater societal issue with all the typical political arguments. As far as I’m concerned when I “Idle” in downtown Portland, my car is silent and not burning anything.
4. Range anxiety - not an issue for daily trips. It shows you how many miles you have left and I make sure to get home within a safe margin. For long trips it’s even easier, the on board computer knows where all the fast charging stations are. I give an audio command to navigate to the Meadowlands and within a few seconds it not only maps out all the stops along the way but it calculates, based on live traffic conditions and speed limits, what time I’ll reach each charging station, how much charge I’ll have left, and how long I’ll need to charge to safely get to the next charger, minimizing the time spent trickle charging to get from 80% to above.
5. Battery degradation - for a full time rideshare driver this is the biggest concern but shouldn’t be for a normal commuter who drives less than 200 miles per day. My long range Model 3 was listed at 310 miles when purchased, and 3 years later after 90k miles it charges to 285. I average about 25-30 miles each hour driving around looking for and giving rides so a loss of 30 miles of range could mean one less hour of revenue per shift. But I’m ok working slightly less over the next few years, 7 or 8 hours instead of 9 or 10. For owners that don’t add 5000 miles a month like I do, their batteries will degrade less quickly, and it won’t really impact their daily driving habits. For the occasional long trip, it may or may not add an extra charging pit stop for an extra 30 minutes, not a big deal imo.
The negatives are so minor relative to the positives. If you drive a lot, buy electric and you’ll save a ton of money! And have so many fewer headaches.
But that’s only if you can charge at home, otherwise put your $50k towards a downpayment on a house with a garage, and refinance a year from now when it appreciates enough to pull out the cash to buy your car for cash. Win-Win!
Retired and drive very few miles..... less than 3K last year
And up here in NH, our electric utility announced that prices will double in August.
Our latest contract for propane is up 30 cents /gal for the upcoming heating season.
They're gonna get you somehow
Tesla mechanic rolled up to my house a few days later, completed the service in about 20 minutes, shook my hand and left. It didn't cost me anything, covered under warranty.
great stuff
Just something to keep in mind because a lot of people think they will be saving all their gas money when in reality recharge is a moderately significant cost
as far as climate change goes, the main driver of global warming is population increase. EVs and other carbon reduction strategies are a palliative not a solution
For you...sure... but you must be either:
1) Not in market for luxury car
or
2) Drive >200 miles per day
or
3) Can't install 240V outlet at your parking location
If those 3 things aren't true, and your choice is BMW v Lexus v Mercedes v Volvo v etc v Tesla, you drive less than 200 miles per day, and you can easily install an outlet...
Then a Tesla is not right for you
OR
You simply don't like the idea now or ever...and that's OK too.
Do have a serious question - what about heat? Heating elements are killers to electrical consumption. How do the MFGs handle that?