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What does Jones Need To Do To Convince You To Believe?

gidiefor : Mod : 6/20/2022 2:15 pm
I know a lot of us are not believers in Daniel Jones, me included. He is being given this coming season to lead the team - there's no commitment from the FO being given - and no back hand either. He has been given what appears to be a better Oline and Oline depth with a new Right Tackle Neal, Center Feliciano, and R Guard Glowinski, heck you could argue that Max Garcia is a better back up than any back up and half the starters last year, and there are a few Olineman that may crack the back ups potentially better than him in Ezeudu and McKethan. Saquon will be there to start. He's getting a few new weapons in Robinson, Breida, Bellinger, and James, and they really haven't taken away any weapons from him as Golladay, Toney, and Shepard appear to be returning. Head Trip Engram is gone.

So with all that, a new Head Coach and OC who are Heavy Offensive gurus from high flying winning programs, What does Daniel Jones need to do, or show you, this season to convince you that he should be the NY Giants QB?
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christian : 6/20/2022 7:33 pm : link
TD throws shouldn’t be the measure — I’d go for total TDs. One of Jones’s strength is his wheels. He should be able to score with his arm and legs.

You just cannot make a financial commitment to a guy who can’t produce ~30 TDs and a winning season.

If Jones is a Giant in 2023 he’s very likely to be on 30.5M franchise tender or a 30M AAV deal.

Imagine investing in a guy who has never led a winning season or produced points like a top third QB.
......  
Route 9 : 6/20/2022 7:36 pm : link
That ship has sailed. He's not going to be a 30 touchdown QB or get his W-L even close to .500. It's a pointless question that you posted because we're all bored in June.

Part of me wishes you were close to being right and I could see a scenario where the Giants were actually close to sniffing the playoffs. Jones could be good for filling in for a game or 2 (17 games now) but that's his ceiling.

Oh yeah. Forgot my platitudes.

"He's a good kid"
RE: …  
Route 9 : 6/20/2022 7:39 pm : link
In comment 15736588 christian said:
Quote:
Imagine investing in a guy who has never led a winning season or produced points like a top third QB.


Phenomenal point. I agree with this statement.
Score points, win games.  
Big Blue Blogger : 6/20/2022 7:42 pm : link
Is that so much to ask?
Looking forward to the day when Daniel Jones  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 6/20/2022 7:42 pm : link
is another fanbases problem.
Late to the party but I’m sure I’m repeating some posts  
The_Boss : 6/20/2022 7:46 pm : link
Put up elite numbers: like 4500 yards and throw 35 tds all while coming through in late game clutch situations and getting this talent deficient roster to the playoffs.

So, basically, do the impossible.

He’s gone after this year.
RE: Looking forward to the day when Daniel Jones  
The_Boss : 6/20/2022 7:55 pm : link
In comment 15736597 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
is another fanbases problem.


Back up QB’s aren’t as nitpicked. That’s DJ’s future. This is his last rodeo as a starting QB in the NFL.
 
christian : 6/20/2022 8:10 pm : link
Cousins produced 34TDs, helmed a top 10 offense, had a winning season, and went to the playoffs and was tagged.

That seems like a pretty decent bar for the Giants to do the same.
I would be lenient relying on Jones  
GNewGiants : 6/20/2022 8:27 pm : link
Total TDs as a measuring stick. PPG the offense puts up more important. I mean if Barkley somehow rushes for 18-20 TDs and Jones only puts up 25 - that doesn’t mean he didn’t do his job.
RE: RE: #1 Be the reason we don't lose #2 Be the reason we win  
D HOS : 6/20/2022 8:27 pm : link
In comment 15736452 short lease said:
Quote:

Be the reason we win might take a couple of years.


Unfortunately, at least in a lot of fans' minds, his window of opportunity is this year. Anything he has to show, he's got to do it right now. What is really curious is whether the staff feels this way too. I imagine they do.

I think he can do it and I am half expecting him to come through based on the setup he seems to be getting. Finally we seem to be doing right by our QB. Now he has to do his part and be the legit starting, caliber better than average, even top 10 if he has it anywhere in him QB. Right now.

I would love nothing more than to see Jones make some big time plays in big spots, lead the team to wins, not screw things up when it's all on him, and the team threatening if not making the playoffs. That would be so sweet.

But I'll stick with my simple answer. Don't lose games, do win games. Simple as that.

Anyone that wants a stat, how about this one - be awarded at least 10 game balls. That's a guy who is doing his part and is a winner more than he is a loser.
Keys for me  
aka dbrny : 6/20/2022 8:44 pm : link
1. Visibly show that his decision clock is ticking faster...not so much that he's getting the ball out faster and playing short ball on every down...but that he's seeing the field and solving the problem faster

2. Via 1...Show that he can occasionally make a play even when the play looks like it isn't there

3. Show that he can throw touchdowns
Keys for me  
aka dbrny : 6/20/2022 8:45 pm : link
1. Visibly show that his decision clock is ticking faster...not so much that he's getting the ball out faster and playing short ball on every down...but that he's seeing the field and solving the problem faster

2. Via 1...Show that he can occasionally make a play even when the play looks like it isn't there

3. Show that he can throw touchdowns
He needs to come from behind  
Bill in UT : 6/20/2022 8:47 pm : link
and go ahead in the last five minutes of some games
Win  
thomasa510 : 6/20/2022 9:43 pm : link
He just needs to win
RE: I would be lenient relying on Jones  
christian : 6/20/2022 10:05 pm : link
In comment 15736643 GNewGiants said:
Quote:
Total TDs as a measuring stick. PPG the offense puts up more important. I mean if Barkley somehow rushes for 18-20 TDs and Jones only puts up 25 - that doesn’t mean he didn’t do his job.


If Barkley some how becomes the first guy to reach 20 rushing TDs in 15+ seasons, and Jones contributes 25 — the Giants would need another 3-5 TDs and 25-30 FGs to be a middle tier offense.
Top 10 QB  
Jerry in_DC : 6/20/2022 10:46 pm : link
Not excuses. Not what ifs. Actual top 10 production and performance.

Not that there's anything magical about 10, but its definitely around the minimum standard to have a contender

Mahomes
Rodgers
Brady
Allen

Wilson
Burrow
Stafford
Herbert

That's 8. To be in the top 10 Jones needs to be better than most of - Dak, Kyler, Lamar, Carr, Cousins, Tannehill, Watson and anyone else im forgetting.

That's a long way to climb for a guy whos trying to be better than Davis Mills, Wentz, Tua, Mayfield, Hurts, etc.

If Jones by some miracle is legit top 10, I would franchise him and make him do it again. And if he did it again, I'd sign him to a big deal. Thats the bar.
RE: Looking forward to the day when Daniel Jones  
Scooter185 : 6/20/2022 11:05 pm : link
In comment 15736597 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
is another fanbases problem.


Me too. I'm disappointed he's still our problem
Score points...  
Brown_Hornet : 6/20/2022 11:20 pm : link
...win games.
Consistency would be my number 1.  
Giant John : 6/20/2022 11:49 pm : link
I’m still not convinced this receiver corp is worth much of anything. Hope I’m wrong but until I see improvement in their play I’m not convinced. I’d like to see major improvements in our run game. To me the problems with this offense were far greater than Jones. Let me remind all what this offense was when Jones was hurt. The worst in the NFL. So to me the better question should be addressed to the play of the entire offensive unit.
What does he need to do??  
OBJRoyal : 6/21/2022 4:44 am : link
Become an entirely different QB than what he has been, pull a complete 180
he needs to have a winning record  
cjac : 6/21/2022 8:47 am : link
and he needs to stop doing things that lose football games. mainly stop turning the ball over.

if he goes 9-8 and stops with the fumbling maybe he gets another year

I am not optimistic
he could have 7 rings on his fingers  
fkap : 6/21/2022 9:27 am : link
and some of you won't believe. Slight hyperbole, but not much.

The state of this team is not such that a superstar QB will automatically make us superbowl contenders.

The notion of "put the team on your back" is bullshit. The best a QB can do is doing his part to win. Read the defense. Make the calls. Make the throws. That isn't putting the team on your back. That's doing your job. beyond that, a QB can't make WRs better. He can't make a RB hit the hole. He can't make the OL open a hole. All he can do is read and set a play.

What DJ needs to do is show he can read, set, and execute his part. Sans some magical season, results wise, he could do everything he needs to, and some of you will refuse to see it.

For me, he needs to show he is part of the solution, not part of the problem. Not show he is on his way to being part of the solution, but actually be a part. Very few, if any, QBs are the entire solution.
I'd believe he's our QB of the future  
Old Dirty : 6/21/2022 10:52 am : link
If he averages 2 TD's per game & less than 14 INT's over this season. I'd like to see him make quicker reads & get the ball out faster too. It does seem like he "locks on" to one receiver sometimes and waits for him to get open. This leads to some of his fumbles, imo. This new offense should get DJ's targets open as that was one of the things I marveled at watching Andy Reid's teams - how open the WR's seemed to be in the middle of the field compared to our schemes. I think by mid-season DJ should be very comfortable and fully in a groove. I'm not saying he's going to lead the league in his numbers, but I want to see it look easy for him out there.
Jones  
ChicagoMarty : 6/21/2022 11:06 am : link
needs to :

Not bird dog his primary receiver
Sense the pocket collapsing
Move and throw accurately on the run
Not fumble
Throw accurately
......  
Route 9 : 6/21/2022 11:17 am : link
Wow. 7 rings for Jones?

We went from dreams of him being Kirk Cousins to now Tom Brady overnight!

Lol. Nice.
RE: Score points...  
Dnew15 : 6/21/2022 11:28 am : link
In comment 15736769 Brown_Hornet said:
Quote:
...win games.


That's it.
I'm with you.
I wanted to trade Jones but since he's here  
Jim in Forest Hills : 6/21/2022 12:00 pm : link
I'd need to see

>30 TDs
<15 INTs
10+ Wins
RE: I wanted to trade Jones but since he's here  
Route 9 : 6/21/2022 12:21 pm : link
In comment 15737091 Jim in Forest Hills said:
Quote:
I'd need to see

>30 TDs
<15 INTs
10+ Wins


What do you think you'd get for him in return?

A punter?
the most simple way I can put it:  
santacruzom : 6/21/2022 12:27 pm : link
Pass the eye test.
Carson Wentz 2021  
widmerseyebrow : 6/21/2022 12:58 pm : link
3563 Yards
62.4% completions
27 passing TD, 1 rushing TD
7 INTs
TD:INT 3.85:1

I want to see Jones get top 8 yards and a Y/A 7.5+ to make me consider rolling with him in 2023 and beyond.
......  
Route 9 : 6/21/2022 1:20 pm : link
You know, I would've taken Wentz for a year. Good chance he gets hurt but it's not like Jones can stay healthy like say an ....


Eli Manning?
.  
arcarsenal : 6/21/2022 1:29 pm : link
He's trending in a better direction in terms of turnovers, but he's got to be the catalyst for an offense that scores significantly more points than we've seen so far.

I'm not sure there needs to be a specific number of yards or TD's.

He's got to complete at least 65% of his passes.

I really don't think Jones is the long-term solution here. But, if he totals 30+ passing/rushing TD's, completes over 65% a clip and the Giants are an average-at-worst offense or anything above average, I'd reconsider my current stance.
......  
Route 9 : 6/21/2022 1:52 pm : link
Improvement only because he started his career off with an absurd amount of fumbles. Almost tied our very own Kerry Collins' record (from 2001) for most fumbles in a season. Kind of hard not to improve with those numbers.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Bad offensive line.

He did cut down in recent years but the turnovers he was guilty of were fatal blows to drives.

(See: Pittsburgh 2020, LA Rams 2020, Denver 2021)

I DO think he had good games the Giants lost too ...

The "Engram drop game" against the Eagles and the game against the Fart Bombs or Football Team or BDSMers, or whatever the hell they were called last year.
RE: 3 things  
Reale01 : 6/21/2022 2:14 pm : link
In comment 15736559 Johnny5 said:
Quote:
Number one - Stay healthy. I love his toughness but he has to stop putting himself in harm's way.

Number two - Score points... average at least 24 pts per game. Throw for 4000 yards and 30 TDs at least.

Number three - win games... tough to say how many because we really don't know what this team is yet but he needs to start winning more of the close games.


Good list. Your numbers are reasonable, but the numbers don't matter as much to me if the wins are there. I would like to see some 4th quarter wins/clutch. Sometimes it takes that to get over the hump for a young QB.
End of season stats rarely tell the tale  
Ten Ton Hammer : 6/21/2022 2:38 pm : link
If he pads his stats with another 5 TD game against a 30's-ranked defense, that changes your mind about him? He hit the 25 TD mark!
A lot  
US1 Giants : 6/21/2022 3:17 pm : link
11+ wins and win the division
Much improved 2-minute offense
Much better in the red zone
Stay on the field, don't get hurt again
Show that he can progress through reads quickly
Show that he can put the team on his back and win
Win a least the first round of the playoffs

He has had too many excuses for too long.
First thing would be to stay healthy  
Andy in Halifax : 6/21/2022 3:32 pm : link
He just has to.

His first4 game of the year... I don't expect him to produce like that all season but close to that level would certainly make me a believer. Only the low volume of TDs stand out.

Projecting his first 4 games over 17 you get:

408/612 for 66.7%
5,032 yards passing with only 4 INTs.
Only negative is the last of TDs- projected 17
That's a projection based on 4 actual games to start last year. Not funny stats.

Those 4 games - with fewer yards but more TDs - have to be what he brings all season. I am a Jones skeptic, was more of a skeptic before last year but I liked those first 4 games. He needs to bring that for a season.
RE: First thing would be to stay healthy  
gidiefor : Mod : 6/21/2022 3:37 pm : link
In comment 15737349 Andy in Halifax said:
Quote:
He just has to.

His first4 game of the year... I don't expect him to produce like that all season but close to that level would certainly make me a believer. Only the low volume of TDs stand out.

Projecting his first 4 games over 17 you get:

408/612 for 66.7%
5,032 yards passing with only 4 INTs.
Only negative is the last of TDs- projected 17
That's a projection based on 4 actual games to start last year. Not funny stats.

Those 4 games - with fewer yards but more TDs - have to be what he brings all season. I am a Jones skeptic, was more of a skeptic before last year but I liked those first 4 games. He needs to bring that for a season.


*** Precidiction *** News Flash *** 17 TDs *** If Jones only throws 17 TDs this season *** News Flash *** He will be lynched
If Jones has a good season...  
bw in dc : 6/21/2022 3:52 pm : link
it can easily be construed as a one-off result. Thus, Jones shouldn't get the benefit of the doubt that a trend with an upward trajectory is occurring.

Nothing short of Jones having a great season statistically in the top 5-8 in every key metric - QBR, YPA, AY/A, TDs, completion %, PPG - convinces me he's worth keeping in 2023.
We should be rooting for him big time  
Reale01 : 6/21/2022 4:03 pm : link
A new QB would be AT LEAST 3 years away from Superbowl contender. That is IF they work out. Jones could get us there MUCH faster if he develops. I know all the negatives etc... and there are positives as well ... so lets not say you will be replacing him if he is not All Pro.
RE: We should be rooting for him big time  
arcarsenal : 6/21/2022 7:06 pm : link
In comment 15737390 Reale01 said:
Quote:
A new QB would be AT LEAST 3 years away from Superbowl contender. That is IF they work out. Jones could get us there MUCH faster if he develops. I know all the negatives etc... and there are positives as well ... so lets not say you will be replacing him if he is not All Pro.


Burrow got there in year 2. This isn't necessarily true.

If you get the right guy, you don't need to wait years and years any longer. Those days are gone.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 6/21/2022 7:09 pm : link
The Seahawks drafted Wilson in '12. Seattle won it all in '13 so this 'If we draft a new QB, we're 3 years away' logic makes no sense. Hell, Burrow got the Bengals to the Super Bowl this past season in his sophomore season.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 6/21/2022 7:11 pm : link
I don't think any BBI poster is rooting against Jones. It isn't like this is Mike Vick or some bad dude. Jones comes across like a good kid & hard worker. But let's face facts...he has shown little to nothing to warrant a long-term investment in. And I have little faith he'll do anything this fall to make any rational person think, 'This guy is the guy going forward.'
RE: He needs to look like a completely different QB  
Brick72 : 6/21/2022 8:05 pm : link
In comment 15736327 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
He needs to make much faster and better decisions with the ball in his hands. He needs to make plays by throwing guys open instead of waiting for them to make their breaks or show him their numbers. He needs to run smarter and protect himself, and he needs to play 17 games.

Bottom line, he has to start making plays to win games instead of just being a guy who needs someone around him to make a play.
"He needs to make much faster and better decisions with the ball in his hands. He needs to make plays by throwing guys open instead of waiting for them to make their breaks or show him their numbers."

^^THIS^^
I’m already a believer  
giantBCP : 6/21/2022 8:33 pm : link
It’s the others that need to convince me.
As long as  
Jerry in_DC : 6/21/2022 8:58 pm : link
Hes a tall white guy with brown hair and good manners, I'm a believer!

- John Mara
RE: ...  
Scooter185 : 6/21/2022 10:34 pm : link
In comment 15737549 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
The Seahawks drafted Wilson in '12. Seattle won it all in '13 so this 'If we draft a new QB, we're 3 years away' logic makes no sense. Hell, Burrow got the Bengals to the Super Bowl this past season in his sophomore season.


QBs come in and make an immediate impact now. Combined with resetting the QB salary by means of the rookie contract, short of an all time great season it makes no sense to keep Jones after '22.

A rookie QB will be better and cheaper
2nd year QB Productivity  
Route 9 : 6/21/2022 11:51 pm : link
Brady, Big Ben, Marino, Colin Kaepernick
Show a clue he gets it  
JonC : 6/22/2022 10:41 am : link
What he must demonstrate in football terms has been beaten to death, it's time to show a shred of it on the field. Consistency, accuracy, pocket awareness, use his legs at the right times and protect himself, hit the small passing windows, score points, protect the rock, raise the level of the offense and the players around him, and play beyond the X's and O's required in order to win not only games but championships.

If he can't do it and do it well, it will be time to move on and give another QB a chance. There's no reason to pay a suspect QB a market rate deal if there's little sign of big things to come.
Jones just has to play to his strengths and not get ancy with the ball  
SGMen : 6/25/2022 5:16 pm : link
Don't turn it over.
Play within the scheme.
And as the season progresses go downfield more and more.

I think he has most of the skills required to be a very good QB just not elite 8 that many speak to all the time. He doesn't have the arm and hasn't shown the pocket presence to do what say a Wilson, Mahomes or Rodgers can do but he does enough things well to win you games and get you to the promised land IF he is protected and supported with a run game.

His first four games are pre-season and his next four are his "evaluation" period. You either go forward with him next year or you draft a QB. I don't see UFA as an option. The cap may be part of the decision UNLESS he shows he is the guy without question.
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