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What does Jones Need To Do To Convince You To Believe?

gidiefor : Mod : 6/20/2022 2:15 pm
I know a lot of us are not believers in Daniel Jones, me included. He is being given this coming season to lead the team - there's no commitment from the FO being given - and no back hand either. He has been given what appears to be a better Oline and Oline depth with a new Right Tackle Neal, Center Feliciano, and R Guard Glowinski, heck you could argue that Max Garcia is a better back up than any back up and half the starters last year, and there are a few Olineman that may crack the back ups potentially better than him in Ezeudu and McKethan. Saquon will be there to start. He's getting a few new weapons in Robinson, Breida, Bellinger, and James, and they really haven't taken away any weapons from him as Golladay, Toney, and Shepard appear to be returning. Head Trip Engram is gone.

So with all that, a new Head Coach and OC who are Heavy Offensive gurus from high flying winning programs, What does Daniel Jones need to do, or show you, this season to convince you that he should be the NY Giants QB?
Have a year like Eli Manning 2011  
BigBlue7 : 6/20/2022 2:16 pm : link
Doesn’t have to be perfect, but needs to show he can put the team on his back.

No more excuses
And I don’t mean matching Eli’s numbers  
BigBlue7 : 6/20/2022 2:18 pm : link
I mean win. Showing intangibles. Finding ways to win when he has no running game. Making decisions post snap and creating big plays
Believe what?  
Ten Ton Hammer : 6/20/2022 2:22 pm : link
That he's a capable starter? That he's a franchise QB worthy of a long term deal?


He needs to look like a completely different QB  
Mike from Ohio : 6/20/2022 2:23 pm : link
He needs to make much faster and better decisions with the ball in his hands. He needs to make plays by throwing guys open instead of waiting for them to make their breaks or show him their numbers. He needs to run smarter and protect himself, and he needs to play 17 games.

Bottom line, he has to start making plays to win games instead of just being a guy who needs someone around him to make a play.
That's easy  
UberAlias : 6/20/2022 2:23 pm : link
Score points and win games. There are things he needs to do that (read defenses/get through progressions, see the field, get ball out quickly and accurately, limit the turnovers, convert 3rd downs, etc.) but ultimately, it's about scoring points and winning games.
Lead Giants to play offs  
joeinpa : 6/20/2022 2:25 pm : link
By playing winning football in crunch time
Top  
AcidTest : 6/20/2022 2:28 pm : link
five in the entire league, and even then I'd only give him the FT at most. I'd need to see him perform at that level for two years and stay healthy before signing him to a long-term deal.

The likelihood of that happening is very small. My guess is the Giants win four or five games next year, and waive goodbye to many veterans, including Jones, Barkley, and Shepard, and maybe even Golladay next offseason. Roster turnover will be even more intense next offseason as the salary cap constraints that hamstrung Schoen this year begin to loosen.
Put up points  
djm : 6/20/2022 2:32 pm : link
And win. Not necessarily in that order but teams don’t win for very long unless they score points, so….
At a minimum I'd like to see him orchestrate a few 2 minute drives  
xman : 6/20/2022 2:44 pm : link
in the closing moments of the half or game.

A feeling  
Thegratefulhead : 6/20/2022 2:44 pm : link
I will not be tied to stats.

Right now when Daniel Jones drops backs to pass in big spot, I expect him to fail.

I want to feel like, if we are down by 7 and have some time on the clock, the other team fucked up.

I am a galaxy away from that feeling currently.
In order to convince me he should be the NYG starting QB  
chick310 : 6/20/2022 3:06 pm : link
going forward Daniel Jones needs to:

1) Be a far more consistent and productive player in terms of getting the Offense into the end zone. The Offense needs to be putting up 25 ppg with him as the starting QB.

AND

2) Not going say a minimum amount of wins, but Jones needs to show a handful of examples (maybe 4-5) where he can put the team on his back and lead them to 4th qtr victories or at least take the lead when he leaves the field for the last time.

The first will show me he can lead a productive Offense and the second will at least begin to convince me he at least has the makeup of a winning QB.
as for me  
gidiefor : Mod : 6/20/2022 3:07 pm : link
I would need to see him consistently looking confident and executing, especially in the red zone. It seems to me that there are many QBs that can score 3 TDs a game. That has not been the case with him. I don't want to see him intentionally throwing his body into harm's way anymore, that frikken pisses me off. I need to see him stay on the field and give us something to cheer about. I want to feel confident that this guy can efficiently move the team down the field and score a TD, especially when it counts.
What does Jones need to do?  
Route 9 : 6/20/2022 3:08 pm : link
1) Go to another team

-or-

2) Be a backup QB for the Giants
Stay healthy.  
Big Blue '56 : 6/20/2022 3:08 pm : link
i stand by everything else I’ve stated under Daboll. It will be plain for all to see, imho
win a Superbowl by  
I Love Clams Casino : 6/20/2022 3:10 pm : link
putting the team on his back, otherwise move on
Throw TD's  
JerseyCityJoe : 6/20/2022 3:14 pm : link
He has to start throwing more td's period.
The Vulture says...  
BMac : 6/20/2022 3:16 pm : link
..."I just love all the dead horses around here!"
Part the Red Sea.  
Klaatu : 6/20/2022 3:17 pm : link
.....
Win games.  
Heisenberg : 6/20/2022 3:23 pm : link
That's it. Win games.
Fine, I'll go.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 6/20/2022 3:26 pm : link
Be league-average in the red zone

Stay healthy

If he's going to throw more passes, the turnovers need to stay down.

Score more points.
win games  
Vanzetti : 6/20/2022 3:27 pm : link
No more Danny "It's Not His Fault" Jones
get us to the playoffs (unless the D is terrible)  
UConn4523 : 6/20/2022 3:28 pm : link
if he's going to only put up low 20's TD's I just don't see how we can bring him back. In a 17 game season he's going to have to account for 2 scores a game just about or he's never going to be good enough to win with, IMO.
RE: Win games.  
chick310 : 6/20/2022 3:29 pm : link
In comment 15736392 Heisenberg said:
Quote:
That's it. Win games.


That to me is not enough. As an example, the Giants putting up a record of 9-8 with Jones as the starting QB where they still put up less than 20 points per game is simply not enough.

As happy (surprised) as I would be the team won 9 games, I would still be shopping for a new QB in 2023.

To me.
Ultimately, find ways to win  
David B. : 6/20/2022 3:31 pm : link
Bring the team from behind for some wins.

“I’m watching Unitas,” he said, “and the velocity was not there. I said to Milt, ‘Can we win with him?’ And he said, ‘Pay attention to what I’m going to tell you.’ He said, ‘You evaluate a quarterback on his ability to take the team down the field in the fourth quarter – especially with a championship on the line – and into the end zone.’ And I will never forget that. I always look for that. - Accorsi



Stats? It's less about that. You want to see 2-1 TD to INT, but the TDs have to be at least in the 20s. And STOP the fumbles.
I saw enough good play in his rookie year......  
No Where Man : 6/20/2022 3:32 pm : link
He just needs to increase his confidence from some good and abundant execution. I'm expecting a big year from DJ. 25+ TDs and 4,000+ yards.
Show me this:  
Kev in Cali : 6/20/2022 3:35 pm : link
4000 yards
30 TDs
10 INTs
5 Fumbles
300 rushing yards
62% completion
Forgot to add....  
Kev in Cali : 6/20/2022 3:36 pm : link
9 wins
......  
Route 9 : 6/20/2022 3:47 pm : link
9 wins in one season for Jones? That is going to be a tall order.

That's 75% of his win total for his career, so far!
Not be the reason they lose  
D HOS : 6/20/2022 3:48 pm : link
and be a big reason they win.

Be significantly better than any of the alternatives, on the field.
RE: And I don’t mean matching Eli’s numbers  
Route 9 : 6/20/2022 3:57 pm : link
In comment 15736323 BigBlue7 said:
Quote:
I mean win. Showing intangibles. Finding ways to win when he has no running game. Making decisions post snap and creating big plays


Daniel Jones will never be anything close to Eli Manning
 
christian : 6/20/2022 4:04 pm : link
I think the hocus pocus stuff is silly. The results always speak for themselves.

He needs to play 15 healthy games, account for 30 TDs and fewer than 15 turnovers — and the Giants need to be above .500.

You can’t give a guy 30M+ a year without a season like that on his belt.
Have a semi competent supporting cast  
BSIMatt : 6/20/2022 4:07 pm : link
Around him.
RE: Have a semi competent supporting cast  
christian : 6/20/2022 4:14 pm : link
In comment 15736429 BSIMatt said:
Quote:
Around him.


If the cast falters — then what do you do with Jones in 2023?
Im just not that concerned about Jones.  
mittenedman : 6/20/2022 4:15 pm : link
This entire organization has been so dysfunctional no QB was playing well here. Worst combination of front office, coaching, skill talent, OL talent and injury luck in the NFL.
Im surprised how few people truly acknowledge that.

I am not a DO IT ANYWAYZ guy at the NFL level. So much success/failure is circumstances and Jones has been in the wrong place at the wrong time. We’ll see if he can salvage his career this year, on paper this is easily the best circumstance he’s had.
#1 Be the reason we don't lose #2 Be the reason we win  
SGMen : 6/20/2022 4:16 pm : link
Look, his career hasn't been helped by bad coaches; changing coaches; Covid; a rookie season where he was #2 in camp and thrust into the starting mix; and, injuries.

His fumbling improved from his rookie year. He needs a supporting cast to get to the next level. He isn't "Elite 8" but I think he can be a #9 - 12 type which can take you to a SB but only with help and support.
RE: Have a semi competent supporting cast  
Jimmy Googs : 6/20/2022 4:17 pm : link
In comment 15736429 BSIMatt said:
Quote:
Around him.


So Jones doesn't need to do anything himself?

So we have the current roster of players (prior to cutdowns) right now. Is that a semi-competent supporting cast in your opinion?
RE: Im just not that concerned about Jones.  
christian : 6/20/2022 4:21 pm : link
In comment 15736435 mittenedman said:
Quote:
This entire organization has been so dysfunctional no QB was playing well here. Worst combination of front office, coaching, skill talent, OL talent and injury luck in the NFL.
Im surprised how few people truly acknowledge that


I think all the posters who couldn’t see that for the last four years got embarrassed and stopped posting on BBI.

The key question is the odds the former management got virtually every decision wrong, yet somehow got Daniel Jones right.
Play well.  
AnnapolisMike : 6/20/2022 4:31 pm : link
Execute the offense as it is designed. Don't be the reason the Giants lose games. Be the reason they win them.
RE: #1 Be the reason we don't lose #2 Be the reason we win  
short lease : 6/20/2022 4:36 pm : link
In comment 15736437 SGMen said:
Quote:
Look, his career hasn't been helped by bad coaches; changing coaches; Covid; a rookie season where he was #2 in camp and thrust into the starting mix; and, injuries.

His fumbling improved from his rookie year. He needs a supporting cast to get to the next level. He isn't "Elite 8" but I think he can be a #9 - 12 type which can take you to a SB but only with help and support.


Be the reason we win might take a couple of years.

Be the reason we don't lose - should happen a lot sooner. But, what do they do if he has a good season this year and the Giants still finish with 4-5 wins?

I think we are still 2 drafts/off-seasons away from 10+ wins.
RE: Throw TD's  
Ira : 6/20/2022 4:38 pm : link
In comment 15736382 JerseyCityJoe said:
Quote:
He has to start throwing more td's period.


That's what I'd like to see.
Jones sucks  
Optimus-NY : 6/20/2022 4:41 pm : link
The sooner he's out of here, the better. nothing short of a Kurt Warner type 1999 season will save his ass here. What I don't wanna see is a midling type of season. Enough already.
RE: Jones sucks  
UConn4523 : 6/20/2022 4:44 pm : link
In comment 15736458 Optimus-NY said:
Quote:
The sooner he's out of here, the better. nothing short of a Kurt Warner type 1999 season will save his ass here. What I don't wanna see is a midling type of season. Enough already.


A "middling season" could actually put us in a playoff hunt. Would that suck?

I do not think Jones will get us to that mark but I'm not really set on it either. 9 or 10 wins means we are likely in the playoffs and that would absolutely not suck. I'll let the GM figure out what to do with him in this scenario.
RE: Show me this:  
widmerseyebrow : 6/20/2022 4:54 pm : link
In comment 15736401 Kev in Cali said:
Quote:
4000 yards
30 TDs
10 INTs
5 Fumbles
300 rushing yards
62% completion


Statistically that would put him firmly outside of the top 10 in today's NFL. That completion percentage would be bottom 10.

Pass friendly league, 17 games...those numbers just don't cut it for a QB entering his 4th year.
Score points, win games, don’t choke  
Ben in Tampa : 6/20/2022 4:55 pm : link
in big spots

I like Jones, I hope he can become the guy, I doubt that he will, but I’m rooting for him

I’m neutral on what happens after 2022, but make no mistake, It’d be the best thing for the organization if he turned into the guy.
RE: RE: Show me this:  
UConn4523 : 6/20/2022 4:57 pm : link
In comment 15736470 widmerseyebrow said:
Quote:
In comment 15736401 Kev in Cali said:


Quote:


4000 yards
30 TDs
10 INTs
5 Fumbles
300 rushing yards
62% completion



Statistically that would put him firmly outside of the top 10 in today's NFL. That completion percentage would be bottom 10.

Pass friendly league, 17 games...those numbers just don't cut it for a QB entering his 4th year.


That's ridiculous. A 3:1 TD ratio would put him in upper tier company yet the completion % is what you'd fixate on? The above season would almost guarantee the playoffs. Of the 9 QB's to throw 30+ TD's only 4 had a 3:1 TD ratio or better.
Jones would cream his pants to have a Kirk Cousins type year  
widmerseyebrow : 6/20/2022 5:00 pm : link
If he becomes that, Kirk Cousins, is that what we're really looking for in a franchise QB? A guy who is clearly good enough to start in the league but not good enough to win in the playoffs/Super Bowl?

Jones has one year and then we need to make a decision to re-sign him. Be realistic about what that year would need to be like for us to cut a check for him to stick around.
yeah I'd take a Kirk Cousins regular season, why not?  
UConn4523 : 6/20/2022 5:03 pm : link
we don't know what Jones would do in the playoffs until he gets there, i'll take that potential problem in 2022.

Kirk Cousins isn't someone you pay top dollar for, but you can win with his skillset. He just hasn't put it together when it matters (happens to even better QB's too).
RE: RE: Jones sucks  
Optimus-NY : 6/20/2022 5:17 pm : link
In comment 15736462 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
In comment 15736458 Optimus-NY said:


Quote:


The sooner he's out of here, the better. nothing short of a Kurt Warner type 1999 season will save his ass here. What I don't wanna see is a midling type of season. Enough already.



A "middling season" could actually put us in a playoff hunt. Would that suck?

I do not think Jones will get us to that mark but I'm not really set on it either. 9 or 10 wins means we are likely in the playoffs and that would absolutely not suck. I'll let the GM figure out what to do with him in this scenario.


The goal is to win championships. Herbert can do that. Jones is no Herbert. Time to dump this chicken dinner. DJ is what Parcells would classify as a "hold the fort" type of player until the cavalry arrives. The cavalry being one of the QBs in next year's draft.

A middling type season could easily be 7 or 8 wins too with decent stats. This guy needs to go. He can't see the game like a top level QB does. He gets hurt and fumbles the ball away. Enough.
 
christian : 6/20/2022 5:21 pm : link
Cousins is the modern floor for an OK-to-good QB — in basically all respects.

He’s pretty durable, will hover around .500, and get you into the playoffs every 3 or 4 years.

He’s accurate and doesn’t turn the ball over. He’s a pretty good QB — it’s a comp Jones would need to take a couple of steps up to reach.
RE: yeah I'd take a Kirk Cousins regular season, why not?  
Kev in Cali : 6/20/2022 5:25 pm : link
In comment 15736479 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
we don't know what Jones would do in the playoffs until he gets there, i'll take that potential problem in 2022.

Kirk Cousins isn't someone you pay top dollar for, but you can win with his skillset. He just hasn't put it together when it matters (happens to even better QB's too).


I tend to agree with this stance....If all he'll ever be is a Cousins, I'll take it. We don't have a pipeline of QB's running to play for our team. So I'd take top 15-20 QB play until we "hit" on the next QB (which could be as soon as April 2023).

If he meets/exceeds those stats, he's probably worth keeping around for another couple or three years (yes, pay him in 2023).

Hoping he's not a Brown, Kanell, Graham. But even Simms/Hostetler had success as mid tier QB's. Point being, you can win without elite QB play.....just look at Trent Dilfer's, Brad Johnson's out there
RE: …  
widmerseyebrow : 6/20/2022 5:30 pm : link
In comment 15736487 christian said:
Quote:
Cousins is the modern floor for an OK-to-good QB — in basically all respects.

He’s pretty durable, will hover around .500, and get you into the playoffs every 3 or 4 years.

He’s accurate and doesn’t turn the ball over. He’s a pretty good QB — it’s a comp Jones would need to take a couple of steps up to reach.


Exactly. The OP is asking what we need to "believe" as in re-sign and forgo draftin a QB in what might be a loaded QB year. "Might be Kirk Cousins someday" doesn't do it for me.
I believe Jones' fate has been sealed.  
SirLoinOfBeef : 6/20/2022 5:43 pm : link
Only Dave Gettleman had a chance of saving him.

He's a goner.
RE: RE: Jones sucks  
Jimmy Googs : 6/20/2022 6:00 pm : link
In comment 15736462 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
In comment 15736458 Optimus-NY said:


Quote:


The sooner he's out of here, the better. nothing short of a Kurt Warner type 1999 season will save his ass here. What I don't wanna see is a midling type of season. Enough already.



A "middling season" could actually put us in a playoff hunt. Would that suck?

I do not think Jones will get us to that mark but I'm not really set on it either. 9 or 10 wins means we are likely in the playoffs and that would absolutely not suck. I'll let the GM figure out what to do with him in this scenario.


As opposed to other scenarios where BBI decides?
RE: RE: …  
Jimmy Googs : 6/20/2022 6:04 pm : link
In comment 15736497 widmerseyebrow said:
Quote:
In comment 15736487 christian said:


Quote:


Cousins is the modern floor for an OK-to-good QB — in basically all respects.

He’s pretty durable, will hover around .500, and get you into the playoffs every 3 or 4 years.

He’s accurate and doesn’t turn the ball over. He’s a pretty good QB — it’s a comp Jones would need to take a couple of steps up to reach.



Exactly. The OP is asking what we need to "believe" as in re-sign and forgo draftin a QB in what might be a loaded QB year. "Might be Kirk Cousins someday" doesn't do it for me.


Nor should it.

That is like going for it on 4th Down once or twice and still eventually punting the ball away...
I’d like to see more mobility  
GNewGiants : 6/20/2022 6:07 pm : link
In the pocket, extending plays, and finding WRs downfield.

He’s plenty fast in a straight line but when I watch him in the pocket - he looks less mobile than Eli did running which is odd.

I know people shit on Golladay and Toney - but they are more than capable WRs who can make plays when called upon.
Let's state the obvious here  
Route 9 : 6/20/2022 6:13 pm : link
Jones doesn't fucking score enough points to survive in this NFL's climate. In the red zone, no matter who the OL is, the WRs, the RB, his drives do NOT end in touchdowns. I don't care. If the same team he is with can get him down in the redzone, he is not let off for settling for FGs or turnovers.

You're not going to field goal the league to death. Sure, you can have 2-3 games a year where your defense holds Carolina to 3 points or Philly to 7 points or scores for you as they did against Vegas, but you're not going to get far in the NFL in 2022.

Perfect way to summarize Jones career is that long drive against Pittsburgh in 2020. Great drive, moved the ball very well and threw that infuriating interception and the Giants walk away with NOTHING.
Reduce the fumbles and turnovers  
Earl the goat : 6/20/2022 6:14 pm : link
And have his best year yet. But it doesn’t have to show in the won loss column
Just show improvement. It will take 2-3 years for this rebuild and for Daboll and Schoen to put their stamp on this team
RE: Let's state the obvious here  
UConn4523 : 6/20/2022 6:17 pm : link
In comment 15736518 Route 9 said:
Quote:
Jones doesn't fucking score enough points to survive in this NFL's climate. In the red zone, no matter who the OL is, the WRs, the RB, his drives do NOT end in touchdowns. I don't care. If the same team he is with can get him down in the redzone, he is not let off for settling for FGs or turnovers.

You're not going to field goal the league to death. Sure, you can have 2-3 games a year where your defense holds Carolina to 3 points or Philly to 7 points or scores for you as they did against Vegas, but you're not going to get far in the NFL in 2022.

Perfect way to summarize Jones career is that long drive against Pittsburgh in 2020. Great drive, moved the ball very well and threw that infuriating interception and the Giants walk away with NOTHING.


What does any of this have to do with the OPs question?
......  
Route 9 : 6/20/2022 6:21 pm : link
Of course, you, of all people would take an issue with that statement ... I am not surprised.

Anyway, 2-3 year rebuild? Teams have proven you can turn things around very quickly, so again, we're doing this same preparation thing where we are in denial the Giants will not be good?

"It takes time"
......  
Route 9 : 6/20/2022 6:21 pm : link
He also said he's not a believer in Jones, I am obviously not either.
Route 9  
Jimmy Googs : 6/20/2022 6:23 pm : link
+ a couple of times...
Win or lose, he needs to make believers out of his teammates  
CT Charlie : 6/20/2022 6:24 pm : link
by December. The coaches will know whether his teammates believe in him enough to extend his contract or to punt.
RE: yeah I'd take a Kirk Cousins regular season, why not?  
FStubbs : 6/20/2022 6:24 pm : link
In comment 15736479 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
we don't know what Jones would do in the playoffs until he gets there, i'll take that potential problem in 2022.

Kirk Cousins isn't someone you pay top dollar for, but you can win with his skillset. He just hasn't put it together when it matters (happens to even better QB's too).


And that's the point, really, when it comes to QB contracts. Kirk Cousins being paid at his actual skill level would allow the Vikings 1-2 more blue chip players (or 4-5 red chip players) that might have gotten them over the hump of mediocrity.
Win a Super Bowl  
trueblueinpw : 6/20/2022 6:34 pm : link
Anything less is failure for any starting QB in the NFL. QB picked 6th overall, what else would anyone expect? Some fucking stats? NFL is a simple brutal business. That’s why we like it. Only one team finds satisfaction in success every year and that’s the team that wins the Supe. You think Tom Brady considers any of his season not winning the Supe a success? The Mannings? Russ? Josh Allen? Hoodie? Schoen? No one worth their salt is trying for anything less. Jones has my faith when his hoisting a Lombardi he just won. No sooner.
RE: ......  
UConn4523 : 6/20/2022 6:34 pm : link
In comment 15736521 Route 9 said:
Quote:
Of course, you, of all people would take an issue with that statement ... I am not surprised.

Anyway, 2-3 year rebuild? Teams have proven you can turn things around very quickly, so again, we're doing this same preparation thing where we are in denial the Giants will not be good?

"It takes time"


You didn’t answer the question. You saw a Jones thread and salivated at the opportunity to complain and couldn’t even muster up the balls to forego that and answer a pretty simple question. I guess you also glossed over the many times I’ve stated I don’t think he can hit that mark.

Take Jones and the Giants out of the equation. What’s a good season for an NFL QB?
FStubbs  
UConn4523 : 6/20/2022 6:36 pm : link
that’s the quandary. In that scenario who’s their QB? As I mentioned earlier, only 9 QBs threw 30+ TDs - that’s less than 30% of the league.

It’s really not that simple.
......  
Route 9 : 6/20/2022 6:48 pm : link
Haha posting exactly what a player does and cannot do is considered to be complaining. I love this place.

I've said that many times I don't think Jones would even be a good QB (or the same QB) on another team. Pointing out that the team doesn't come away with TDs in the redzone under Jones is a problem with you? My God.

I want Jones gone. Guess what? I also answered OP's in this very thread, it was my first post. I was in the "wait until 2020 to draft Herbert" camp.

Take Jones out of the equation and what? I'd rather it be Herbert. But I might go with Dalton over Jones, which is sad.
......  
Route 9 : 6/20/2022 6:49 pm : link
The second Tyrod Taylor got here he was immediately considered competition for Jones by the masses, which is even more sad.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 6/20/2022 6:53 pm : link
If we had an open QB competition, I'd put some shekels on TT winning the job outright.
Giddie, you put bait for idiots out, and i didn’t know there were so  
plato : 6/20/2022 6:55 pm : link
many impaired people given refuge by Eric.
RE: Giddie, you put bait for idiots out, and i didn’t know there were so  
Route 9 : 6/20/2022 6:58 pm : link
In comment 15736549 plato said:
Quote:
many impaired people given refuge by Eric.


He does it just to piss me off haha
3 things  
Johnny5 : 6/20/2022 7:08 pm : link
Number one - Stay healthy. I love his toughness but he has to stop putting himself in harm's way.

Number two - Score points... average at least 24 pts per game. Throw for 4000 yards and 30 TDs at least.

Number three - win games... tough to say how many because we really don't know what this team is yet but he needs to start winning more of the close games.
now, now,  
gidiefor : Mod : 6/20/2022 7:09 pm : link
come on guys -- we are asking what would it take for you to believe in Jones -- and think he deserved to continue to the the NY Giants QB

Let's hear what it would take

don't get tangled up
RE: now, now,  
UConn4523 : 6/20/2022 7:16 pm : link
In comment 15736560 gidiefor said:
Quote:
come on guys -- we are asking what would it take for you to believe in Jones -- and think he deserved to continue to the the NY Giants QB

Let's hear what it would take

don't get tangled up


I tried, it ain’t gonna happen
After seeing his every game,  
CV36 : 6/20/2022 7:28 pm : link
Even if he has a phenomenal season I will be wondering if it was the exception. In my view it’s not whether he’s capable of throwing the ball it’s decision making, holding on to the ball and processing quickly. If he were to become the answer it would be a major plus but I would t have confidence even after a good season and unfortunately a decision must be made after this season.
 
christian : 6/20/2022 7:33 pm : link
TD throws shouldn’t be the measure — I’d go for total TDs. One of Jones’s strength is his wheels. He should be able to score with his arm and legs.

You just cannot make a financial commitment to a guy who can’t produce ~30 TDs and a winning season.

If Jones is a Giant in 2023 he’s very likely to be on 30.5M franchise tender or a 30M AAV deal.

Imagine investing in a guy who has never led a winning season or produced points like a top third QB.
......  
Route 9 : 6/20/2022 7:36 pm : link
That ship has sailed. He's not going to be a 30 touchdown QB or get his W-L even close to .500. It's a pointless question that you posted because we're all bored in June.

Part of me wishes you were close to being right and I could see a scenario where the Giants were actually close to sniffing the playoffs. Jones could be good for filling in for a game or 2 (17 games now) but that's his ceiling.

Oh yeah. Forgot my platitudes.

"He's a good kid"
RE: …  
Route 9 : 6/20/2022 7:39 pm : link
In comment 15736588 christian said:
Quote:
Imagine investing in a guy who has never led a winning season or produced points like a top third QB.


Phenomenal point. I agree with this statement.
Score points, win games.  
Big Blue Blogger : 6/20/2022 7:42 pm : link
Is that so much to ask?
Looking forward to the day when Daniel Jones  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 6/20/2022 7:42 pm : link
is another fanbases problem.
Late to the party but I’m sure I’m repeating some posts  
The_Boss : 6/20/2022 7:46 pm : link
Put up elite numbers: like 4500 yards and throw 35 tds all while coming through in late game clutch situations and getting this talent deficient roster to the playoffs.

So, basically, do the impossible.

He’s gone after this year.
RE: Looking forward to the day when Daniel Jones  
The_Boss : 6/20/2022 7:55 pm : link
In comment 15736597 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
is another fanbases problem.


Back up QB’s aren’t as nitpicked. That’s DJ’s future. This is his last rodeo as a starting QB in the NFL.
 
christian : 6/20/2022 8:10 pm : link
Cousins produced 34TDs, helmed a top 10 offense, had a winning season, and went to the playoffs and was tagged.

That seems like a pretty decent bar for the Giants to do the same.
I would be lenient relying on Jones  
GNewGiants : 6/20/2022 8:27 pm : link
Total TDs as a measuring stick. PPG the offense puts up more important. I mean if Barkley somehow rushes for 18-20 TDs and Jones only puts up 25 - that doesn’t mean he didn’t do his job.
RE: RE: #1 Be the reason we don't lose #2 Be the reason we win  
D HOS : 6/20/2022 8:27 pm : link
In comment 15736452 short lease said:
Quote:

Be the reason we win might take a couple of years.


Unfortunately, at least in a lot of fans' minds, his window of opportunity is this year. Anything he has to show, he's got to do it right now. What is really curious is whether the staff feels this way too. I imagine they do.

I think he can do it and I am half expecting him to come through based on the setup he seems to be getting. Finally we seem to be doing right by our QB. Now he has to do his part and be the legit starting, caliber better than average, even top 10 if he has it anywhere in him QB. Right now.

I would love nothing more than to see Jones make some big time plays in big spots, lead the team to wins, not screw things up when it's all on him, and the team threatening if not making the playoffs. That would be so sweet.

But I'll stick with my simple answer. Don't lose games, do win games. Simple as that.

Anyone that wants a stat, how about this one - be awarded at least 10 game balls. That's a guy who is doing his part and is a winner more than he is a loser.
Keys for me  
aka dbrny : 6/20/2022 8:44 pm : link
1. Visibly show that his decision clock is ticking faster...not so much that he's getting the ball out faster and playing short ball on every down...but that he's seeing the field and solving the problem faster

2. Via 1...Show that he can occasionally make a play even when the play looks like it isn't there

3. Show that he can throw touchdowns
Keys for me  
aka dbrny : 6/20/2022 8:45 pm : link
1. Visibly show that his decision clock is ticking faster...not so much that he's getting the ball out faster and playing short ball on every down...but that he's seeing the field and solving the problem faster

2. Via 1...Show that he can occasionally make a play even when the play looks like it isn't there

3. Show that he can throw touchdowns
He needs to come from behind  
Bill in UT : 6/20/2022 8:47 pm : link
and go ahead in the last five minutes of some games
Win  
thomasa510 : 6/20/2022 9:43 pm : link
He just needs to win
RE: I would be lenient relying on Jones  
christian : 6/20/2022 10:05 pm : link
In comment 15736643 GNewGiants said:
Quote:
Total TDs as a measuring stick. PPG the offense puts up more important. I mean if Barkley somehow rushes for 18-20 TDs and Jones only puts up 25 - that doesn’t mean he didn’t do his job.


If Barkley some how becomes the first guy to reach 20 rushing TDs in 15+ seasons, and Jones contributes 25 — the Giants would need another 3-5 TDs and 25-30 FGs to be a middle tier offense.
Top 10 QB  
Jerry in_DC : 6/20/2022 10:46 pm : link
Not excuses. Not what ifs. Actual top 10 production and performance.

Not that there's anything magical about 10, but its definitely around the minimum standard to have a contender

Mahomes
Rodgers
Brady
Allen

Wilson
Burrow
Stafford
Herbert

That's 8. To be in the top 10 Jones needs to be better than most of - Dak, Kyler, Lamar, Carr, Cousins, Tannehill, Watson and anyone else im forgetting.

That's a long way to climb for a guy whos trying to be better than Davis Mills, Wentz, Tua, Mayfield, Hurts, etc.

If Jones by some miracle is legit top 10, I would franchise him and make him do it again. And if he did it again, I'd sign him to a big deal. Thats the bar.
RE: Looking forward to the day when Daniel Jones  
Scooter185 : 6/20/2022 11:05 pm : link
In comment 15736597 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
is another fanbases problem.


Me too. I'm disappointed he's still our problem
Score points...  
Brown_Hornet : 6/20/2022 11:20 pm : link
...win games.
Consistency would be my number 1.  
Giant John : 6/20/2022 11:49 pm : link
I’m still not convinced this receiver corp is worth much of anything. Hope I’m wrong but until I see improvement in their play I’m not convinced. I’d like to see major improvements in our run game. To me the problems with this offense were far greater than Jones. Let me remind all what this offense was when Jones was hurt. The worst in the NFL. So to me the better question should be addressed to the play of the entire offensive unit.
What does he need to do??  
OBJRoyal : 6/21/2022 4:44 am : link
Become an entirely different QB than what he has been, pull a complete 180
he needs to have a winning record  
cjac : 6/21/2022 8:47 am : link
and he needs to stop doing things that lose football games. mainly stop turning the ball over.

if he goes 9-8 and stops with the fumbling maybe he gets another year

I am not optimistic
he could have 7 rings on his fingers  
fkap : 6/21/2022 9:27 am : link
and some of you won't believe. Slight hyperbole, but not much.

The state of this team is not such that a superstar QB will automatically make us superbowl contenders.

The notion of "put the team on your back" is bullshit. The best a QB can do is doing his part to win. Read the defense. Make the calls. Make the throws. That isn't putting the team on your back. That's doing your job. beyond that, a QB can't make WRs better. He can't make a RB hit the hole. He can't make the OL open a hole. All he can do is read and set a play.

What DJ needs to do is show he can read, set, and execute his part. Sans some magical season, results wise, he could do everything he needs to, and some of you will refuse to see it.

For me, he needs to show he is part of the solution, not part of the problem. Not show he is on his way to being part of the solution, but actually be a part. Very few, if any, QBs are the entire solution.
I'd believe he's our QB of the future  
Old Dirty : 6/21/2022 10:52 am : link
If he averages 2 TD's per game & less than 14 INT's over this season. I'd like to see him make quicker reads & get the ball out faster too. It does seem like he "locks on" to one receiver sometimes and waits for him to get open. This leads to some of his fumbles, imo. This new offense should get DJ's targets open as that was one of the things I marveled at watching Andy Reid's teams - how open the WR's seemed to be in the middle of the field compared to our schemes. I think by mid-season DJ should be very comfortable and fully in a groove. I'm not saying he's going to lead the league in his numbers, but I want to see it look easy for him out there.
Jones  
ChicagoMarty : 6/21/2022 11:06 am : link
needs to :

Not bird dog his primary receiver
Sense the pocket collapsing
Move and throw accurately on the run
Not fumble
Throw accurately
......  
Route 9 : 6/21/2022 11:17 am : link
Wow. 7 rings for Jones?

We went from dreams of him being Kirk Cousins to now Tom Brady overnight!

Lol. Nice.
RE: Score points...  
Dnew15 : 6/21/2022 11:28 am : link
In comment 15736769 Brown_Hornet said:
Quote:
...win games.


That's it.
I'm with you.
I wanted to trade Jones but since he's here  
Jim in Forest Hills : 6/21/2022 12:00 pm : link
I'd need to see

>30 TDs
<15 INTs
10+ Wins
RE: I wanted to trade Jones but since he's here  
Route 9 : 6/21/2022 12:21 pm : link
In comment 15737091 Jim in Forest Hills said:
Quote:
I'd need to see

>30 TDs
<15 INTs
10+ Wins


What do you think you'd get for him in return?

A punter?
the most simple way I can put it:  
santacruzom : 6/21/2022 12:27 pm : link
Pass the eye test.
Carson Wentz 2021  
widmerseyebrow : 6/21/2022 12:58 pm : link
3563 Yards
62.4% completions
27 passing TD, 1 rushing TD
7 INTs
TD:INT 3.85:1

I want to see Jones get top 8 yards and a Y/A 7.5+ to make me consider rolling with him in 2023 and beyond.
......  
Route 9 : 6/21/2022 1:20 pm : link
You know, I would've taken Wentz for a year. Good chance he gets hurt but it's not like Jones can stay healthy like say an ....


Eli Manning?
.  
arcarsenal : 6/21/2022 1:29 pm : link
He's trending in a better direction in terms of turnovers, but he's got to be the catalyst for an offense that scores significantly more points than we've seen so far.

I'm not sure there needs to be a specific number of yards or TD's.

He's got to complete at least 65% of his passes.

I really don't think Jones is the long-term solution here. But, if he totals 30+ passing/rushing TD's, completes over 65% a clip and the Giants are an average-at-worst offense or anything above average, I'd reconsider my current stance.
......  
Route 9 : 6/21/2022 1:52 pm : link
Improvement only because he started his career off with an absurd amount of fumbles. Almost tied our very own Kerry Collins' record (from 2001) for most fumbles in a season. Kind of hard not to improve with those numbers.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Bad offensive line.

He did cut down in recent years but the turnovers he was guilty of were fatal blows to drives.

(See: Pittsburgh 2020, LA Rams 2020, Denver 2021)

I DO think he had good games the Giants lost too ...

The "Engram drop game" against the Eagles and the game against the Fart Bombs or Football Team or BDSMers, or whatever the hell they were called last year.
RE: 3 things  
Reale01 : 6/21/2022 2:14 pm : link
In comment 15736559 Johnny5 said:
Quote:
Number one - Stay healthy. I love his toughness but he has to stop putting himself in harm's way.

Number two - Score points... average at least 24 pts per game. Throw for 4000 yards and 30 TDs at least.

Number three - win games... tough to say how many because we really don't know what this team is yet but he needs to start winning more of the close games.


Good list. Your numbers are reasonable, but the numbers don't matter as much to me if the wins are there. I would like to see some 4th quarter wins/clutch. Sometimes it takes that to get over the hump for a young QB.
End of season stats rarely tell the tale  
Ten Ton Hammer : 6/21/2022 2:38 pm : link
If he pads his stats with another 5 TD game against a 30's-ranked defense, that changes your mind about him? He hit the 25 TD mark!
A lot  
US1 Giants : 6/21/2022 3:17 pm : link
11+ wins and win the division
Much improved 2-minute offense
Much better in the red zone
Stay on the field, don't get hurt again
Show that he can progress through reads quickly
Show that he can put the team on his back and win
Win a least the first round of the playoffs

He has had too many excuses for too long.
First thing would be to stay healthy  
Andy in Halifax : 6/21/2022 3:32 pm : link
He just has to.

His first4 game of the year... I don't expect him to produce like that all season but close to that level would certainly make me a believer. Only the low volume of TDs stand out.

Projecting his first 4 games over 17 you get:

408/612 for 66.7%
5,032 yards passing with only 4 INTs.
Only negative is the last of TDs- projected 17
That's a projection based on 4 actual games to start last year. Not funny stats.

Those 4 games - with fewer yards but more TDs - have to be what he brings all season. I am a Jones skeptic, was more of a skeptic before last year but I liked those first 4 games. He needs to bring that for a season.
RE: First thing would be to stay healthy  
gidiefor : Mod : 6/21/2022 3:37 pm : link
In comment 15737349 Andy in Halifax said:
Quote:
He just has to.

His first4 game of the year... I don't expect him to produce like that all season but close to that level would certainly make me a believer. Only the low volume of TDs stand out.

Projecting his first 4 games over 17 you get:

408/612 for 66.7%
5,032 yards passing with only 4 INTs.
Only negative is the last of TDs- projected 17
That's a projection based on 4 actual games to start last year. Not funny stats.

Those 4 games - with fewer yards but more TDs - have to be what he brings all season. I am a Jones skeptic, was more of a skeptic before last year but I liked those first 4 games. He needs to bring that for a season.


*** Precidiction *** News Flash *** 17 TDs *** If Jones only throws 17 TDs this season *** News Flash *** He will be lynched
If Jones has a good season...  
bw in dc : 6/21/2022 3:52 pm : link
it can easily be construed as a one-off result. Thus, Jones shouldn't get the benefit of the doubt that a trend with an upward trajectory is occurring.

Nothing short of Jones having a great season statistically in the top 5-8 in every key metric - QBR, YPA, AY/A, TDs, completion %, PPG - convinces me he's worth keeping in 2023.
We should be rooting for him big time  
Reale01 : 6/21/2022 4:03 pm : link
A new QB would be AT LEAST 3 years away from Superbowl contender. That is IF they work out. Jones could get us there MUCH faster if he develops. I know all the negatives etc... and there are positives as well ... so lets not say you will be replacing him if he is not All Pro.
RE: We should be rooting for him big time  
arcarsenal : 6/21/2022 7:06 pm : link
In comment 15737390 Reale01 said:
Quote:
A new QB would be AT LEAST 3 years away from Superbowl contender. That is IF they work out. Jones could get us there MUCH faster if he develops. I know all the negatives etc... and there are positives as well ... so lets not say you will be replacing him if he is not All Pro.


Burrow got there in year 2. This isn't necessarily true.

If you get the right guy, you don't need to wait years and years any longer. Those days are gone.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 6/21/2022 7:09 pm : link
The Seahawks drafted Wilson in '12. Seattle won it all in '13 so this 'If we draft a new QB, we're 3 years away' logic makes no sense. Hell, Burrow got the Bengals to the Super Bowl this past season in his sophomore season.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 6/21/2022 7:11 pm : link
I don't think any BBI poster is rooting against Jones. It isn't like this is Mike Vick or some bad dude. Jones comes across like a good kid & hard worker. But let's face facts...he has shown little to nothing to warrant a long-term investment in. And I have little faith he'll do anything this fall to make any rational person think, 'This guy is the guy going forward.'
RE: He needs to look like a completely different QB  
Brick72 : 6/21/2022 8:05 pm : link
In comment 15736327 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
He needs to make much faster and better decisions with the ball in his hands. He needs to make plays by throwing guys open instead of waiting for them to make their breaks or show him their numbers. He needs to run smarter and protect himself, and he needs to play 17 games.

Bottom line, he has to start making plays to win games instead of just being a guy who needs someone around him to make a play.
"He needs to make much faster and better decisions with the ball in his hands. He needs to make plays by throwing guys open instead of waiting for them to make their breaks or show him their numbers."

^^THIS^^
I’m already a believer  
giantBCP : 6/21/2022 8:33 pm : link
It’s the others that need to convince me.
As long as  
Jerry in_DC : 6/21/2022 8:58 pm : link
Hes a tall white guy with brown hair and good manners, I'm a believer!

- John Mara
RE: ...  
Scooter185 : 6/21/2022 10:34 pm : link
In comment 15737549 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
The Seahawks drafted Wilson in '12. Seattle won it all in '13 so this 'If we draft a new QB, we're 3 years away' logic makes no sense. Hell, Burrow got the Bengals to the Super Bowl this past season in his sophomore season.


QBs come in and make an immediate impact now. Combined with resetting the QB salary by means of the rookie contract, short of an all time great season it makes no sense to keep Jones after '22.

A rookie QB will be better and cheaper
2nd year QB Productivity  
Route 9 : 6/21/2022 11:51 pm : link
Brady, Big Ben, Marino, Colin Kaepernick
Show a clue he gets it  
JonC : 6/22/2022 10:41 am : link
What he must demonstrate in football terms has been beaten to death, it's time to show a shred of it on the field. Consistency, accuracy, pocket awareness, use his legs at the right times and protect himself, hit the small passing windows, score points, protect the rock, raise the level of the offense and the players around him, and play beyond the X's and O's required in order to win not only games but championships.

If he can't do it and do it well, it will be time to move on and give another QB a chance. There's no reason to pay a suspect QB a market rate deal if there's little sign of big things to come.
Jones just has to play to his strengths and not get ancy with the ball  
SGMen : 6/25/2022 5:16 pm : link
Don't turn it over.
Play within the scheme.
And as the season progresses go downfield more and more.

I think he has most of the skills required to be a very good QB just not elite 8 that many speak to all the time. He doesn't have the arm and hasn't shown the pocket presence to do what say a Wilson, Mahomes or Rodgers can do but he does enough things well to win you games and get you to the promised land IF he is protected and supported with a run game.

His first four games are pre-season and his next four are his "evaluation" period. You either go forward with him next year or you draft a QB. I don't see UFA as an option. The cap may be part of the decision UNLESS he shows he is the guy without question.
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