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What does Jones Need To Do To Convince You To Believe?

gidiefor : Mod : 6/20/2022 2:15 pm
I know a lot of us are not believers in Daniel Jones, me included. He is being given this coming season to lead the team - there's no commitment from the FO being given - and no back hand either. He has been given what appears to be a better Oline and Oline depth with a new Right Tackle Neal, Center Feliciano, and R Guard Glowinski, heck you could argue that Max Garcia is a better back up than any back up and half the starters last year, and there are a few Olineman that may crack the back ups potentially better than him in Ezeudu and McKethan. Saquon will be there to start. He's getting a few new weapons in Robinson, Breida, Bellinger, and James, and they really haven't taken away any weapons from him as Golladay, Toney, and Shepard appear to be returning. Head Trip Engram is gone.

So with all that, a new Head Coach and OC who are Heavy Offensive gurus from high flying winning programs, What does Daniel Jones need to do, or show you, this season to convince you that he should be the NY Giants QB?
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RE: …  
widmerseyebrow : 6/20/2022 5:30 pm : link
In comment 15736487 christian said:
Quote:
Cousins is the modern floor for an OK-to-good QB — in basically all respects.

He’s pretty durable, will hover around .500, and get you into the playoffs every 3 or 4 years.

He’s accurate and doesn’t turn the ball over. He’s a pretty good QB — it’s a comp Jones would need to take a couple of steps up to reach.


Exactly. The OP is asking what we need to "believe" as in re-sign and forgo draftin a QB in what might be a loaded QB year. "Might be Kirk Cousins someday" doesn't do it for me.
I believe Jones' fate has been sealed.  
SirLoinOfBeef : 6/20/2022 5:43 pm : link
Only Dave Gettleman had a chance of saving him.

He's a goner.
RE: RE: Jones sucks  
Jimmy Googs : 6/20/2022 6:00 pm : link
In comment 15736462 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
In comment 15736458 Optimus-NY said:


Quote:


The sooner he's out of here, the better. nothing short of a Kurt Warner type 1999 season will save his ass here. What I don't wanna see is a midling type of season. Enough already.



A "middling season" could actually put us in a playoff hunt. Would that suck?

I do not think Jones will get us to that mark but I'm not really set on it either. 9 or 10 wins means we are likely in the playoffs and that would absolutely not suck. I'll let the GM figure out what to do with him in this scenario.


As opposed to other scenarios where BBI decides?
RE: RE: …  
Jimmy Googs : 6/20/2022 6:04 pm : link
In comment 15736497 widmerseyebrow said:
Quote:
In comment 15736487 christian said:


Quote:


Cousins is the modern floor for an OK-to-good QB — in basically all respects.

He’s pretty durable, will hover around .500, and get you into the playoffs every 3 or 4 years.

He’s accurate and doesn’t turn the ball over. He’s a pretty good QB — it’s a comp Jones would need to take a couple of steps up to reach.



Exactly. The OP is asking what we need to "believe" as in re-sign and forgo draftin a QB in what might be a loaded QB year. "Might be Kirk Cousins someday" doesn't do it for me.


Nor should it.

That is like going for it on 4th Down once or twice and still eventually punting the ball away...
I’d like to see more mobility  
GNewGiants : 6/20/2022 6:07 pm : link
In the pocket, extending plays, and finding WRs downfield.

He’s plenty fast in a straight line but when I watch him in the pocket - he looks less mobile than Eli did running which is odd.

I know people shit on Golladay and Toney - but they are more than capable WRs who can make plays when called upon.
Let's state the obvious here  
Route 9 : 6/20/2022 6:13 pm : link
Jones doesn't fucking score enough points to survive in this NFL's climate. In the red zone, no matter who the OL is, the WRs, the RB, his drives do NOT end in touchdowns. I don't care. If the same team he is with can get him down in the redzone, he is not let off for settling for FGs or turnovers.

You're not going to field goal the league to death. Sure, you can have 2-3 games a year where your defense holds Carolina to 3 points or Philly to 7 points or scores for you as they did against Vegas, but you're not going to get far in the NFL in 2022.

Perfect way to summarize Jones career is that long drive against Pittsburgh in 2020. Great drive, moved the ball very well and threw that infuriating interception and the Giants walk away with NOTHING.
Reduce the fumbles and turnovers  
Earl the goat : 6/20/2022 6:14 pm : link
And have his best year yet. But it doesn’t have to show in the won loss column
Just show improvement. It will take 2-3 years for this rebuild and for Daboll and Schoen to put their stamp on this team
RE: Let's state the obvious here  
UConn4523 : 6/20/2022 6:17 pm : link
In comment 15736518 Route 9 said:
Quote:
Jones doesn't fucking score enough points to survive in this NFL's climate. In the red zone, no matter who the OL is, the WRs, the RB, his drives do NOT end in touchdowns. I don't care. If the same team he is with can get him down in the redzone, he is not let off for settling for FGs or turnovers.

You're not going to field goal the league to death. Sure, you can have 2-3 games a year where your defense holds Carolina to 3 points or Philly to 7 points or scores for you as they did against Vegas, but you're not going to get far in the NFL in 2022.

Perfect way to summarize Jones career is that long drive against Pittsburgh in 2020. Great drive, moved the ball very well and threw that infuriating interception and the Giants walk away with NOTHING.


What does any of this have to do with the OPs question?
......  
Route 9 : 6/20/2022 6:21 pm : link
Of course, you, of all people would take an issue with that statement ... I am not surprised.

Anyway, 2-3 year rebuild? Teams have proven you can turn things around very quickly, so again, we're doing this same preparation thing where we are in denial the Giants will not be good?

"It takes time"
......  
Route 9 : 6/20/2022 6:21 pm : link
He also said he's not a believer in Jones, I am obviously not either.
Route 9  
Jimmy Googs : 6/20/2022 6:23 pm : link
+ a couple of times...
Win or lose, he needs to make believers out of his teammates  
CT Charlie : 6/20/2022 6:24 pm : link
by December. The coaches will know whether his teammates believe in him enough to extend his contract or to punt.
RE: yeah I'd take a Kirk Cousins regular season, why not?  
FStubbs : 6/20/2022 6:24 pm : link
In comment 15736479 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
we don't know what Jones would do in the playoffs until he gets there, i'll take that potential problem in 2022.

Kirk Cousins isn't someone you pay top dollar for, but you can win with his skillset. He just hasn't put it together when it matters (happens to even better QB's too).


And that's the point, really, when it comes to QB contracts. Kirk Cousins being paid at his actual skill level would allow the Vikings 1-2 more blue chip players (or 4-5 red chip players) that might have gotten them over the hump of mediocrity.
Win a Super Bowl  
trueblueinpw : 6/20/2022 6:34 pm : link
Anything less is failure for any starting QB in the NFL. QB picked 6th overall, what else would anyone expect? Some fucking stats? NFL is a simple brutal business. That’s why we like it. Only one team finds satisfaction in success every year and that’s the team that wins the Supe. You think Tom Brady considers any of his season not winning the Supe a success? The Mannings? Russ? Josh Allen? Hoodie? Schoen? No one worth their salt is trying for anything less. Jones has my faith when his hoisting a Lombardi he just won. No sooner.
RE: ......  
UConn4523 : 6/20/2022 6:34 pm : link
In comment 15736521 Route 9 said:
Quote:
Of course, you, of all people would take an issue with that statement ... I am not surprised.

Anyway, 2-3 year rebuild? Teams have proven you can turn things around very quickly, so again, we're doing this same preparation thing where we are in denial the Giants will not be good?

"It takes time"


You didn’t answer the question. You saw a Jones thread and salivated at the opportunity to complain and couldn’t even muster up the balls to forego that and answer a pretty simple question. I guess you also glossed over the many times I’ve stated I don’t think he can hit that mark.

Take Jones and the Giants out of the equation. What’s a good season for an NFL QB?
FStubbs  
UConn4523 : 6/20/2022 6:36 pm : link
that’s the quandary. In that scenario who’s their QB? As I mentioned earlier, only 9 QBs threw 30+ TDs - that’s less than 30% of the league.

It’s really not that simple.
......  
Route 9 : 6/20/2022 6:48 pm : link
Haha posting exactly what a player does and cannot do is considered to be complaining. I love this place.

I've said that many times I don't think Jones would even be a good QB (or the same QB) on another team. Pointing out that the team doesn't come away with TDs in the redzone under Jones is a problem with you? My God.

I want Jones gone. Guess what? I also answered OP's in this very thread, it was my first post. I was in the "wait until 2020 to draft Herbert" camp.

Take Jones out of the equation and what? I'd rather it be Herbert. But I might go with Dalton over Jones, which is sad.
......  
Route 9 : 6/20/2022 6:49 pm : link
The second Tyrod Taylor got here he was immediately considered competition for Jones by the masses, which is even more sad.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 6/20/2022 6:53 pm : link
If we had an open QB competition, I'd put some shekels on TT winning the job outright.
Giddie, you put bait for idiots out, and i didn’t know there were so  
plato : 6/20/2022 6:55 pm : link
many impaired people given refuge by Eric.
RE: Giddie, you put bait for idiots out, and i didn’t know there were so  
Route 9 : 6/20/2022 6:58 pm : link
In comment 15736549 plato said:
Quote:
many impaired people given refuge by Eric.


He does it just to piss me off haha
3 things  
Johnny5 : 6/20/2022 7:08 pm : link
Number one - Stay healthy. I love his toughness but he has to stop putting himself in harm's way.

Number two - Score points... average at least 24 pts per game. Throw for 4000 yards and 30 TDs at least.

Number three - win games... tough to say how many because we really don't know what this team is yet but he needs to start winning more of the close games.
now, now,  
gidiefor : Mod : 6/20/2022 7:09 pm : link
come on guys -- we are asking what would it take for you to believe in Jones -- and think he deserved to continue to the the NY Giants QB

Let's hear what it would take

don't get tangled up
RE: now, now,  
UConn4523 : 6/20/2022 7:16 pm : link
In comment 15736560 gidiefor said:
Quote:
come on guys -- we are asking what would it take for you to believe in Jones -- and think he deserved to continue to the the NY Giants QB

Let's hear what it would take

don't get tangled up


I tried, it ain’t gonna happen
After seeing his every game,  
CV36 : 6/20/2022 7:28 pm : link
Even if he has a phenomenal season I will be wondering if it was the exception. In my view it’s not whether he’s capable of throwing the ball it’s decision making, holding on to the ball and processing quickly. If he were to become the answer it would be a major plus but I would t have confidence even after a good season and unfortunately a decision must be made after this season.
 
christian : 6/20/2022 7:33 pm : link
TD throws shouldn’t be the measure — I’d go for total TDs. One of Jones’s strength is his wheels. He should be able to score with his arm and legs.

You just cannot make a financial commitment to a guy who can’t produce ~30 TDs and a winning season.

If Jones is a Giant in 2023 he’s very likely to be on 30.5M franchise tender or a 30M AAV deal.

Imagine investing in a guy who has never led a winning season or produced points like a top third QB.
......  
Route 9 : 6/20/2022 7:36 pm : link
That ship has sailed. He's not going to be a 30 touchdown QB or get his W-L even close to .500. It's a pointless question that you posted because we're all bored in June.

Part of me wishes you were close to being right and I could see a scenario where the Giants were actually close to sniffing the playoffs. Jones could be good for filling in for a game or 2 (17 games now) but that's his ceiling.

Oh yeah. Forgot my platitudes.

"He's a good kid"
RE: …  
Route 9 : 6/20/2022 7:39 pm : link
In comment 15736588 christian said:
Quote:
Imagine investing in a guy who has never led a winning season or produced points like a top third QB.


Phenomenal point. I agree with this statement.
Score points, win games.  
Big Blue Blogger : 6/20/2022 7:42 pm : link
Is that so much to ask?
Looking forward to the day when Daniel Jones  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 6/20/2022 7:42 pm : link
is another fanbases problem.
Late to the party but I’m sure I’m repeating some posts  
The_Boss : 6/20/2022 7:46 pm : link
Put up elite numbers: like 4500 yards and throw 35 tds all while coming through in late game clutch situations and getting this talent deficient roster to the playoffs.

So, basically, do the impossible.

He’s gone after this year.
RE: Looking forward to the day when Daniel Jones  
The_Boss : 6/20/2022 7:55 pm : link
In comment 15736597 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
is another fanbases problem.


Back up QB’s aren’t as nitpicked. That’s DJ’s future. This is his last rodeo as a starting QB in the NFL.
 
christian : 6/20/2022 8:10 pm : link
Cousins produced 34TDs, helmed a top 10 offense, had a winning season, and went to the playoffs and was tagged.

That seems like a pretty decent bar for the Giants to do the same.
I would be lenient relying on Jones  
GNewGiants : 6/20/2022 8:27 pm : link
Total TDs as a measuring stick. PPG the offense puts up more important. I mean if Barkley somehow rushes for 18-20 TDs and Jones only puts up 25 - that doesn’t mean he didn’t do his job.
RE: RE: #1 Be the reason we don't lose #2 Be the reason we win  
D HOS : 6/20/2022 8:27 pm : link
In comment 15736452 short lease said:
Quote:

Be the reason we win might take a couple of years.


Unfortunately, at least in a lot of fans' minds, his window of opportunity is this year. Anything he has to show, he's got to do it right now. What is really curious is whether the staff feels this way too. I imagine they do.

I think he can do it and I am half expecting him to come through based on the setup he seems to be getting. Finally we seem to be doing right by our QB. Now he has to do his part and be the legit starting, caliber better than average, even top 10 if he has it anywhere in him QB. Right now.

I would love nothing more than to see Jones make some big time plays in big spots, lead the team to wins, not screw things up when it's all on him, and the team threatening if not making the playoffs. That would be so sweet.

But I'll stick with my simple answer. Don't lose games, do win games. Simple as that.

Anyone that wants a stat, how about this one - be awarded at least 10 game balls. That's a guy who is doing his part and is a winner more than he is a loser.
Keys for me  
aka dbrny : 6/20/2022 8:44 pm : link
1. Visibly show that his decision clock is ticking faster...not so much that he's getting the ball out faster and playing short ball on every down...but that he's seeing the field and solving the problem faster

2. Via 1...Show that he can occasionally make a play even when the play looks like it isn't there

3. Show that he can throw touchdowns
Keys for me  
aka dbrny : 6/20/2022 8:45 pm : link
1. Visibly show that his decision clock is ticking faster...not so much that he's getting the ball out faster and playing short ball on every down...but that he's seeing the field and solving the problem faster

2. Via 1...Show that he can occasionally make a play even when the play looks like it isn't there

3. Show that he can throw touchdowns
He needs to come from behind  
Bill in UT : 6/20/2022 8:47 pm : link
and go ahead in the last five minutes of some games
Win  
thomasa510 : 6/20/2022 9:43 pm : link
He just needs to win
RE: I would be lenient relying on Jones  
christian : 6/20/2022 10:05 pm : link
In comment 15736643 GNewGiants said:
Quote:
Total TDs as a measuring stick. PPG the offense puts up more important. I mean if Barkley somehow rushes for 18-20 TDs and Jones only puts up 25 - that doesn’t mean he didn’t do his job.


If Barkley some how becomes the first guy to reach 20 rushing TDs in 15+ seasons, and Jones contributes 25 — the Giants would need another 3-5 TDs and 25-30 FGs to be a middle tier offense.
Top 10 QB  
Jerry in_DC : 6/20/2022 10:46 pm : link
Not excuses. Not what ifs. Actual top 10 production and performance.

Not that there's anything magical about 10, but its definitely around the minimum standard to have a contender

Mahomes
Rodgers
Brady
Allen

Wilson
Burrow
Stafford
Herbert

That's 8. To be in the top 10 Jones needs to be better than most of - Dak, Kyler, Lamar, Carr, Cousins, Tannehill, Watson and anyone else im forgetting.

That's a long way to climb for a guy whos trying to be better than Davis Mills, Wentz, Tua, Mayfield, Hurts, etc.

If Jones by some miracle is legit top 10, I would franchise him and make him do it again. And if he did it again, I'd sign him to a big deal. Thats the bar.
RE: Looking forward to the day when Daniel Jones  
Scooter185 : 6/20/2022 11:05 pm : link
In comment 15736597 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
is another fanbases problem.


Me too. I'm disappointed he's still our problem
Score points...  
Brown_Hornet : 6/20/2022 11:20 pm : link
...win games.
Consistency would be my number 1.  
Giant John : 6/20/2022 11:49 pm : link
I’m still not convinced this receiver corp is worth much of anything. Hope I’m wrong but until I see improvement in their play I’m not convinced. I’d like to see major improvements in our run game. To me the problems with this offense were far greater than Jones. Let me remind all what this offense was when Jones was hurt. The worst in the NFL. So to me the better question should be addressed to the play of the entire offensive unit.
What does he need to do??  
OBJRoyal : 6/21/2022 4:44 am : link
Become an entirely different QB than what he has been, pull a complete 180
he needs to have a winning record  
cjac : 6/21/2022 8:47 am : link
and he needs to stop doing things that lose football games. mainly stop turning the ball over.

if he goes 9-8 and stops with the fumbling maybe he gets another year

I am not optimistic
he could have 7 rings on his fingers  
fkap : 6/21/2022 9:27 am : link
and some of you won't believe. Slight hyperbole, but not much.

The state of this team is not such that a superstar QB will automatically make us superbowl contenders.

The notion of "put the team on your back" is bullshit. The best a QB can do is doing his part to win. Read the defense. Make the calls. Make the throws. That isn't putting the team on your back. That's doing your job. beyond that, a QB can't make WRs better. He can't make a RB hit the hole. He can't make the OL open a hole. All he can do is read and set a play.

What DJ needs to do is show he can read, set, and execute his part. Sans some magical season, results wise, he could do everything he needs to, and some of you will refuse to see it.

For me, he needs to show he is part of the solution, not part of the problem. Not show he is on his way to being part of the solution, but actually be a part. Very few, if any, QBs are the entire solution.
I'd believe he's our QB of the future  
Old Dirty : 6/21/2022 10:52 am : link
If he averages 2 TD's per game & less than 14 INT's over this season. I'd like to see him make quicker reads & get the ball out faster too. It does seem like he "locks on" to one receiver sometimes and waits for him to get open. This leads to some of his fumbles, imo. This new offense should get DJ's targets open as that was one of the things I marveled at watching Andy Reid's teams - how open the WR's seemed to be in the middle of the field compared to our schemes. I think by mid-season DJ should be very comfortable and fully in a groove. I'm not saying he's going to lead the league in his numbers, but I want to see it look easy for him out there.
Jones  
ChicagoMarty : 6/21/2022 11:06 am : link
needs to :

Not bird dog his primary receiver
Sense the pocket collapsing
Move and throw accurately on the run
Not fumble
Throw accurately
......  
Route 9 : 6/21/2022 11:17 am : link
Wow. 7 rings for Jones?

We went from dreams of him being Kirk Cousins to now Tom Brady overnight!

Lol. Nice.
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