NFT: Knicks Chat: Draft 2 days away

Knicks are expected to move away from Burks and Noel among others as well

There will be many in here who think it's an over pay, and it probably is. However I'd be ok with it. To me he's a younger healthier version of the current Derrick Rose and that fine by me. If we can add him for just money and maintain all of our assets, it's an important addition because it would allow us to continue to improve.

In comment 15736851 nygiants16 said:

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Knicks are expected to move away from Burks and Noel among others as well

I haven't been blown away by Rose and co but that's the best thing they've done. Draft well for the slots they've drafted from and create a roster of movable parts for a scenario like this.

that the Pacers are expected to trade Brogdon this week, Knicks and wozards the most viable suitors who will turn their attention to Brogodn if no trade up for Ivey

on Kyrie. Cancer to every team he's been a part of. Plays a limited schedule every year. Dump Randle, Noel, Burks, Rose and play the kids. Next year's draft is the best in 10 years. Let Quickley run the show and if you are a lottery team great. If the kids come together and we make the playoffs great. If Dolan gets impatient we're fucked for another 10 years. Look at the Rangers as a model for the kind of success we want.

is damaged goods. A pox on trying to win 45 games and get blown out in the playoffs.

This team is so desperate for a PG that they'll either overpay (Brunson), overdraft (TyTy), trade for an injury-prone guy (Brogdon) or sign a complete and utter headcase (Kyrie).



Not ideal.

In comment 15736872 Anakim said:

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This team is so desperate for a PG that they'll either overpay (Brunson), overdraft (TyTy), trade for an injury-prone guy (Brogdon) or sign a complete and utter headcase (Kyrie). Not ideal.

Id rather go after Brogdon, yes i know the injury history but you can plag Iq and him together in the starting lineup...

I am starting to wonder if they are going to offer 11 and dump a bunch of salary on Indiana for Brogdon then go after Brunson or Kyrie

😞😞😞.

if they can pull it off, you don't even need to clear the money. You just need the verbal agreements in place + plus the verbal agreement with Brunson. Dallas would then be incentivized to do a sign-and-trade. Obviously, that's all easier said then done.

In comment 15736875 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:

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😞😞😞.

just relax and let it happen my friend, that opening night he drops 50 on brooklyn, we are going to be excited together

In comment 15736878 Enzo said:

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if they can pull it off, you don't even need to clear the money. You just need the verbal agreements in place + plus the verbal agreement with Brunson. Dallas would then be incentivized to do a sign-and-trade. Obviously, that's all easier said then done.

I think they are trying to dump salary on indiana in a Brogdon deal and will do that if they dont get Ivey

Then he'll go missing for 2 weeks only to reemerge at some Flat Earth rally in Copenhagen. Haha.

Jonathan Macri
@JCMacriNBA
“Few teams expect the Knicks to be drafting [at 11] when all is said and done. The team is said to be aggressively exploring scenarios in which they will trade down or trade out of the draft altogether if they can land a starting caliber-point guard such as Malcolm Brogdon”

In comment 15736885 adamg said:

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Jonathan Macri @JCMacriNBA “Few teams expect the Knicks to be drafting [at 11] when all is said and done. The team is said to be aggressively exploring scenarios in which they will trade down or trade out of the draft altogether if they can land a starting caliber-point guard such as Malcolm Brogdon”

I dont think its just 11 for Brogdon, i think its a wholr bunch of salary and 11 for Brogdon

In comment 15736884 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:

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Then he'll go missing for 2 weeks only to reemerge at some Flat Earth rally in Copenhagen. Haha.

haha probably..

That has to be smoke. Knicks front office has been heavily risk-averse under Rose.

Trading significant items for an always-injured Brogdon doesn't make sense to that.

In comment 15736892 Ten Ton Hammer said:

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That has to be smoke. Knicks front office has been heavily risk-averse under Rose. Trading significant items for an always-injured Brogdon doesn't make sense to that.

It wouldnt be 11 for Brogdon..

It would probably be Randle, Burks, noel and 11 for Brogdon..

Clears 25 million, clears Randle, clears playing time and clears a path to go get Brunson..

I dont think they are trading for Brogdon to be their stsrting point

for certain Brunson is going to sign here. While we've been let down before in similar situations, never before has the FA's dad worked for the organization.

..

I get the idea that they wanted to bring the "band" back after a successful 20-21 season, but salary commitments to pedestrian players like Burks, Noel etc. really bites them in the ass for pursuit of Brunson (disregarding Randle, Walker, Fournier deals for now).

Getting Brunson (or Sexton, I suppose) is critical. Otherwise, Randle will continue to hijack the offense. The desperately need a lead guard. I do like IQ as a combo/bench guard, but that isn't enough to take the ball out of Randle's hands.

In comment 15736852 Stu11 said:

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There will be many in here who think it's an over pay, and it probably is. However I'd be ok with it. To me he's a younger healthier version of the current Derrick Rose and that fine by me. If we can add him for just money and maintain all of our assets, it's an important addition because it would allow us to continue to improve.

Most of these "not quite max" guys who get paid are overpays. By definition, you're at the top of the player's market. If we did that, I'd be pretty stoked. He's a really good player and a real grinder. Works hard. In that way he really fits what the Knicks are trying to build.

That said, he's a pathway to being a good team, not a great one. We still need to find stars. That's why I'm hoping we swing big to move up for Ivey. That would tell me that the Knicks feel he has star potential and he's exactly the kind of explosive guard we lack.

If they land him, I'll live with whatever they do with the vets.

Try to go get Ivey..

Clear the vets on expiring deals to clear cap space and a path for the youth..

Reshape the back court..

I think Ivey is clearly plan A, i think if that doesnt work they go get Brogdon and clear salary at the same time..

Sign Brunson or Kyrie..

I think if they do trade up Ivey, i still think they clear salary and try and sign Irving or Brunson

However I think he's being overated here, and by all accounts the price will be high. The types of assets being talked about will limit our ability to further improve. I think Brunson for $ only is our best option.

to try to get Ivy, but i am hard pressed to think we are getting from 11 to 4 without including guys we probably dont want to include (RJ or Obi, obviously ivy isnt worth that to me).

If we get Brogdon in a salary dump or a randle swap ill live with it. Ill just pray he can play 65 or so games and maybe be healthy in the playoffs.

I really dont love Brunson. I know the contract he will get is the going rate in the NBA. Not max guys get the max or near the max all the time, but im just not sure investing all of that in him is the right move. Do we think he is a top 15 PG if he gets 35 minutes a game? I wont be upset if we sign him, but i wont be thrilled either.

In comment 15736872 Anakim said:

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This team is so desperate for a PG that they'll either overpay (Brunson), overdraft (TyTy), trade for an injury-prone guy (Brogdon) or sign a complete and utter headcase (Kyrie). Not ideal.

^This. Brunson will be hugely expensive. What I read is that the Knicks, Grizzles, and Wizards all want to move up to four to take Ivey. All are desperate for a PG. Beal has a PO IIRC that he is expected to invoke.

The Knicks should just dump as many players as possible instead of overpaying for Brunson.

Tyus Jones?

I could see him providing similar production to Brunson at a lower cost, but I have never seen him connected with the Knicks at all, so I assume he's not even on their radar.

Legion Hoops
@LegionHoops

REPORT: The Suns could trade Cameron Johnson to the Pelicans for the No. 8 overall pick, clearing the way for Phoenix to offer Deandre Ayton more money. (via @DraftExpress)

at 25 million isn't "great" but it's not bad. #11 straight for Brogdon would be absolutely awful.

In comment 15736944 DanMetroMan said:

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at 25 million isn't "great" but it's not bad. #11 straight for Brogdon would be absolutely awful.

11 for Brogdon is such a typical Knicks move I can see it happening. It would reaffirm that Leon Rose is as bad as Isiah Thomas was in running the Knicks.

thanks for making and feeding them.

is a good, not great player even at his realistic best (this isn't rolling the dice on high risk greatness) he's 30 in December and his injury history is truly absurd. Forget 82 games he's played 60 games twice in his career.

It's not likely at all to me.

Isiah Thomas or Phil Jackson might do that, but Rose's identity is being overly cautious or slow and steady.

yesterday but worth posting again... this is just since 2020-

02/28/2022 Rest
02/24/2022 Achilles
01/20/2022 Achilles
01/13/2022 Achilles
01/12/2022 Achilles
12/23/2021 Health And Safety Protocols
11/05/2021 Illness
10/27/2021 Hamstring
10/19/2021 Left Ac
04/29/2021 Hamstring
04/02/2021 Hip
03/22/2021 Back
02/27/2021 Knee
08/11/2020 Neck
08/05/2020 Neck
07/31/2020 Cervical Strain
03/04/2020 Hip
01/25/2020 Concussion
01/22/2020 Laceration

It is this front office MO.
Rose has done nothing in the way of a splash move. We keep getting these rumors and nothing transpires with Rose.
Btw I am not sold on any of these moves
Brunson would be the best of all but is expensive.
Ivey we sell the farm for an unproven rookie that will take time to develop
Brogdon will not be cheap and can't stay healthy.

.

In comment 15736938 Gatorade Dunk said:

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Tyus Jones? I could see him providing similar production to Brunson at a lower cost, but I have never seen him connected with the Knicks at all, so I assume he's not even on their radar.

They add a third goddamned Dookie, I'm out. I can, and certainly have, put up with a lot as a Knicks fan, but we all have our red lines, and that's mine.

is 4 years younger, and his same injury tracker...

11/26/2021 Foot
01/08/2021 Health And Safety Protocols
02/22/2020 Shoulder


So...

In comment 15736968 larryflower37 said:

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It is this front office MO. Rose has done nothing in the way of a splash move. We keep getting these rumors and nothing transpires with Rose. Btw I am not sold on any of these moves Brunson would be the best of all but is expensive. Ivey we sell the farm for an unproven rookie that will take time to develop Brogdon will not be cheap and can't stay healthy.

Agreed, we will sit at 11 and maybe unload one player (Burks or Noel).

I woudl love Brunson or Ivey but that sounds like a pipe dream. Signing all these guys to 2-3 year deals was not really the right move. Rose has yet to do anything drastic. At least it seems like he is decent at drafting (IQ, Grimes, Obi etc).

In comment 15736974 DanMetroMan said:

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is 4 years younger, and his same injury tracker... 11/26/2021 Foot 01/08/2021 Health And Safety Protocols 02/22/2020 Shoulder So...

Makes too much sense to land a young healthy up and coming PG with playoff experience. When things make too much sense with the Knicks… well we know how that goes

In comment 15736983 TommyWiseau said:

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In comment 15736974 DanMetroMan said: Quote: is 4 years younger, and his same injury tracker... 11/26/2021 Foot 01/08/2021 Health And Safety Protocols 02/22/2020 Shoulder So... Makes too much sense to land a young healthy up and coming PG with playoff experience. When things make too much sense with the Knicks… well we know how that goes

Good chance he stays in Dallas anyway, not really in their control at all.

I know some won't like it, but don't underestimate this guy. He's a winner and a big time culture changer. He's not just a regular guy.

But he's not the kind of a guy who can carry a team. They'd still need a #1 star.

In comment 15736959 DanMetroMan said:

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is a good, not great player even at his realistic best (this isn't rolling the dice on high risk greatness) he's 30 in December and his injury history is truly absurd. Forget 82 games he's played 60 games twice in his career.

Agreed. But trading for Brogdon in any scenario is a classic Knicks move, and exactly why the franchise has stunk for decades.

concern is Dallas keeping Brunson and the Knicks pivot to "next best" (which may or may not be Brogdon). They obviously badly need a PG but "next best" isn't always the right move (see the Mets with James McCann when they couldn't land Realmuto).

I don't see a real possibility for a trade up, and I don't think they go for Brogdon. I think they'll go after Brunson and Dallas throws money at him to keep him.

but unloading salary to sign him outright would signal that Dallas has no interest in a sign and trade with the Knicks.

If that's the case, then you have to be careful about what sort of moves you make. You don't want to sacrifice too many draft assets to move off of salaries that are expiring at the end of next season. Rose and Noel are at least functional players when healthy and Burks is a genuine asset on a good deal.

Trading 11 for Brogdon would make me lose my mind. And trading a bunch of salary and 11 for Brogdon would be even worse.

In comment 15737010 Jan in DC said:

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but unloading salary to sign him outright would signal that Dallas has no interest in a sign and trade with the Knicks. If that's the case, then you have to be careful about what sort of moves you make. You don't want to sacrifice too many draft assets to move off of salaries that are expiring at the end of next season. Rose and Noel are at least functional players when healthy and Burks is a genuine asset on a good deal. Trading 11 for Brogdon would make me lose my mind. And trading a bunch of salary and 11 for Brogdon would be even worse.

how is clearing 25 million bad?

In comment 15737009 Ten Ton Hammer said:

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I don't see a real possibility for a trade up, and I don't think they go for Brogdon. I think they'll go after Brunson and Dallas throws money at him to keep him.

This is what I expect to happen. I don't think they'll make any desperate moves. I think they'll try to draft another functional player at 11, try to move off some vets to open up playing time for the youth and go into the season with the mindset that maybe Randle, Rose and Noel can be moved at the deadline for actual value where they could be bargaining with a position of power instead of selling low and maybe sacrificing picks in what is supposed to be a good draft next year.

In comment 15737013 nygiants16 said:

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In comment 15737010 Jan in DC said: Quote: but unloading salary to sign him outright would signal that Dallas has no interest in a sign and trade with the Knicks. If that's the case, then you have to be careful about what sort of moves you make. You don't want to sacrifice too many draft assets to move off of salaries that are expiring at the end of next season. Rose and Noel are at least functional players when healthy and Burks is a genuine asset on a good deal. Trading 11 for Brogdon would make me lose my mind. And trading a bunch of salary and 11 for Brogdon would be even worse. how is clearing 25 million bad?

Well, it depends on who that salary is. If it's Rose and Noel, then you're dealing 2 players whose salary expires at the end of the upcoming season for a player who is signed for 3 more years and can't stay on the floor.

And you're trading for a PG so you can also go out and sign another PG. And you're using a draft pick to trade Randle at his lowest possible value in order to get off salary you gave him last year.

what kind of value does Randle have? Clearing that money and opening a spot for Obi should be a priority, but it is negative value? Honestly, if Randle plus 11 got us to 8 or 9 I would probably do it. I hate giving away Randle, but he's just clogging things up for us and he's easily guardable against good teams.

Trade Randle and 11 to move up, plus Brunson and I'm pretty happy. Realistic?

In comment 15737013 nygiants16 said:

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In comment 15737010 Jan in DC said: Quote: but unloading salary to sign him outright would signal that Dallas has no interest in a sign and trade with the Knicks. If that's the case, then you have to be careful about what sort of moves you make. You don't want to sacrifice too many draft assets to move off of salaries that are expiring at the end of next season. Rose and Noel are at least functional players when healthy and Burks is a genuine asset on a good deal. Trading 11 for Brogdon would make me lose my mind. And trading a bunch of salary and 11 for Brogdon would be even worse. how is clearing 25 million bad?

It depends on how you do it. At the same time I don't think this is a hard thing to do with all the expiring contracts we have, in the end it's what you do with it and I think Dallas matches any offer and move THJ to get space for Brunson

THJR? He's untradable with that contract, IMO. Maybe if they package him with Luka.

with that injury history? Trading for him is a little like hoping the rest had helped Kemba. The Knicks would clearly rather bring in Brunson and should.

The best thing about Brogdon would be the cost would have to be pretty low considering he's on the last year of the contract. So, Pacers can not pay him 22M and the Knicks can let him have a lot of playing time while he tries to show he can be healthy for his next (last?) contract in the nba.

There's a lot of logic and good fit to bringing him in. But frustratingly, he's yet another stop gap. I guess that's why he's a clear "Plan C" here.

In comment 15736954 GFAN52 said:

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In comment 15736944 DanMetroMan said: Quote: at 25 million isn't "great" but it's not bad. #11 straight for Brogdon would be absolutely awful. 11 for Brogdon is such a typical Knicks move I can see it happening. It would reaffirm that Leon Rose is as bad as Isiah Thomas was in running the Knicks.

"typical Knicks move" >> there is NOTHING about this front office group to suggest this would be a typical Knicks move. Thus far, they've basically gathered assets, hit some singles/doubles but haven't made any harmful moves unless you consider the 4*$25 contract to Randle harmful. While that may be true, they couldn't have reasonably expected Randle to become what he became last season.

In comment 15737021 Jan in DC said:

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In comment 15737013 nygiants16 said: Quote: In comment 15737010 Jan in DC said: Quote: but unloading salary to sign him outright would signal that Dallas has no interest in a sign and trade with the Knicks. If that's the case, then you have to be careful about what sort of moves you make. You don't want to sacrifice too many draft assets to move off of salaries that are expiring at the end of next season. Rose and Noel are at least functional players when healthy and Burks is a genuine asset on a good deal. Trading 11 for Brogdon would make me lose my mind. And trading a bunch of salary and 11 for Brogdon would be even worse. how is clearing 25 million bad? Well, it depends on who that salary is. If it's Rose and Noel, then you're dealing 2 players whose salary expires at the end of the upcoming season for a player who is signed for 3 more years and can't stay on the floor. And you're trading for a PG so you can also go out and sign another PG. And you're using a draft pick to trade Randle at his lowest possible value in order to get off salary you gave him last year.

First off Pacers have 30 million in cap space this offseason, its not trading expirings into Brogdon deal, you are trading Randle for Brogdon, then adding Burks and Noel and clearing their salary, you arent taking on anything..

Second trading for Brogdon doesnt mean he is going to be your starting Point, he can play the 2 pretty easy, you can play Brunson and Brogdon as well together..

They drafted him, so can't they exceed the cap to sign him?

In comment 15737032 Heisenberg said:

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They drafted him, so can't they exceed the cap to sign him?

They don't need space. But at the same time, he is a UFA, so if he signs w NYK, there isn't an opportunity for Dallas to match.

In comment 15737036 NYG22 said:

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In comment 15737032 Heisenberg said: Quote: They drafted him, so can't they exceed the cap to sign him? They don't need space. But at the same time, he is a UFA, so if he signs w NYK, there isn't an opportunity for Dallas to match.

Right. Dallas is banking on him wanting to stay with the winning situation they have now.

In comment 15736998 JJ2525 said:

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I know some won't like it, but don't underestimate this guy. He's a winner and a big time culture changer. He's not just a regular guy.

Totally agree. They need to prioritize getting him even if it means attaching a 1 (preferably the 2023 Maverick) to take on a big salary (preferably Randle but more likely Fournier) to allow a major offer to Brunson.

for Dallas and he wants the most money possible. That was before he did so well in the playoffs.

that they are prioritizing Brunson.

In comment 15737030 nygiants16 said:

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In comment 15737021 Jan in DC said: Quote: In comment 15737013 nygiants16 said: Quote: In comment 15737010 Jan in DC said: Quote: but unloading salary to sign him outright would signal that Dallas has no interest in a sign and trade with the Knicks. If that's the case, then you have to be careful about what sort of moves you make. You don't want to sacrifice too many draft assets to move off of salaries that are expiring at the end of next season. Rose and Noel are at least functional players when healthy and Burks is a genuine asset on a good deal. Trading 11 for Brogdon would make me lose my mind. And trading a bunch of salary and 11 for Brogdon would be even worse. how is clearing 25 million bad? Well, it depends on who that salary is. If it's Rose and Noel, then you're dealing 2 players whose salary expires at the end of the upcoming season for a player who is signed for 3 more years and can't stay on the floor. And you're trading for a PG so you can also go out and sign another PG. And you're using a draft pick to trade Randle at his lowest possible value in order to get off salary you gave him last year. First off Pacers have 30 million in cap space this offseason, its not trading expirings into Brogdon deal, you are trading Randle for Brogdon, then adding Burks and Noel and clearing their salary, you arent taking on anything.. Second trading for Brogdon doesnt mean he is going to be your starting Point, he can play the 2 pretty easy, you can play Brunson and Brogdon as well together..

I addressed your concern in my response. It is obvious that I knew that they had cap space when I mentioned trading Noel, Rose, Randle and 11 for Brogdon. I feel like that's saying "Here's a good draft pick for salary mistakes that we have made" and not treating those expiring deals like assets.

In comment 15737039 Heisenberg said:

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In comment 15737036 NYG22 said: Quote: In comment 15737032 Heisenberg said: Quote: They drafted him, so can't they exceed the cap to sign him? They don't need space. But at the same time, he is a UFA, so if he signs w NYK, there isn't an opportunity for Dallas to match. Right. Dallas is banking on him wanting to stay with the winning situation they have now.

I wonder what Brunson wants:

Door #1:

Winning situation
Playing w a Top 3 player but also deferring to him as is necessary w stars

Door #2:

Being the lead guard on a young team (he may want more responsibility)
Playing w Thibs (established relationship), his dad

Other:
-whatever the financial considerations
-whatever his geography preference is

In comment 15737057 Jan in DC said:

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In comment 15737030 nygiants16 said: Quote: In comment 15737021 Jan in DC said: Quote: In comment 15737013 nygiants16 said: Quote: In comment 15737010 Jan in DC said: Quote: but unloading salary to sign him outright would signal that Dallas has no interest in a sign and trade with the Knicks. If that's the case, then you have to be careful about what sort of moves you make. You don't want to sacrifice too many draft assets to move off of salaries that are expiring at the end of next season. Rose and Noel are at least functional players when healthy and Burks is a genuine asset on a good deal. Trading 11 for Brogdon would make me lose my mind. And trading a bunch of salary and 11 for Brogdon would be even worse. how is clearing 25 million bad? Well, it depends on who that salary is. If it's Rose and Noel, then you're dealing 2 players whose salary expires at the end of the upcoming season for a player who is signed for 3 more years and can't stay on the floor. And you're trading for a PG so you can also go out and sign another PG. And you're using a draft pick to trade Randle at his lowest possible value in order to get off salary you gave him last year. First off Pacers have 30 million in cap space this offseason, its not trading expirings into Brogdon deal, you are trading Randle for Brogdon, then adding Burks and Noel and clearing their salary, you arent taking on anything.. Second trading for Brogdon doesnt mean he is going to be your starting Point, he can play the 2 pretty easy, you can play Brunson and Brogdon as well together.. I addressed your concern in my response. It is obvious that I knew that they had cap space when I mentioned trading Noel, Rose, Randle and 11 for Brogdon. I feel like that's saying "Here's a good draft pick for salary mistakes that we have made" and not treating those expiring deals like assets.

They arent assets, you are not getting anything for them, the cap soace and the minutes opening up for your youth is better than having them on the roster

The Knicks are widely regarded as a team looking to shed a number of contracts (such as those possessed by Alec Burks, Kemba Walker and Nerlens Noel) to create salary-cap space for the potential free-agent pursuits of Dallas' Jalen Brunson and perhaps even (gasp) Brooklyn's Kyrie Irving. Yet Monday night also delivered the strongest rumbles I’ve heard to date that a new multiyear deal to keep Mitchell Robinson in New York is looming

according to Begely

give me your best guess on what it would cost to move up to 5?

In comment 15737065 nygiants16 said:

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according to Begely

That makes sense given indications are if Sacramento keeps the pick they're leaning towards Murray. I actually think Detroit would be a better trade partner than Sacramento. They're more likely to have interest in a bunch of picks and a young player or two. Cade and Toppin for example would be a really fun duo

Was a disaster

Knicks are offering multiple 1sts in a deal to move up to 4 and also said he thinks knicks have the offer to make it happen

so I'd consider Mitch pretty close to a lock based on that tidbit.

so that's an interesting change of tone.

Things are always fluid this year. As of this moment (mid-morning on Tuesday), I believe that the Knicks can get up to No. 4 to select Jaden Ivey.

It would take a significant price. People in touch with Sacramento say that in the club’s conversations with New York, the Knicks have talked about offering multiple first-round picks in a package for the No. 4 pick. I don’t know which players were offered, but it wasn’t enough to lock a deal in.

Negotiations with the Kings for the No. 4 pick will probably extend into Thursday evening. Sacramento doesn’t have to trade the pick; why wouldn’t the Kings wait until the final hour to see what the best offer looks like?

In comment 15737079 bceagle05 said:

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so that's an interesting change of tone.

No surprise there. I rather draft at 11 than trade it for Brogdon.

In comment 15737074 Earl the goat said:

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Was a disaster

We gotta stop doing this.

He's the 16th highest paid shooting guard in the NBA before this offeseason even happens. And he was okay last year despite and shot 39% from 3 playing in a trash heap offense with no point guard and a 'superstar' having a terrible season. He has two years left on his contract, and the last year is a team option.

While I would give up a heap for Ivey; and would pay Brunson $25m; my bet is on Brogdon for Burks and Noel. Rose's admin has proven itself to be one that seems to be in on all kinds of big, juicy rumors, but never gets anything close to a big deal done.

Hell even with massive cap space, their biggest move was signing Randle and second business was signing Fournier.

They will get Brogdon and then crow about how they final have their PG. Never mind that the guy plays 50 games a season and with the minutes that Thibs likes to play his guys, maybe he plays 25 games.

Heading into the third year of the Rose reign, they have very little to show. The extra first round picks were acquired before Rose came on; the cap space was built before Rose was hired; and Randle, love him or hate him, was a previous regime's hire.

Rose's HQ has acquired a ton of second round picks; Obi, Grimes, Quickly and Fournier. Whoopde-damn-do.

In comment 15737095 PhilSimms15 said:

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While I would give up a heap for Ivey; and would pay Brunson $25m; my bet is on Brogdon for Burks and Noel. Rose's admin has proven itself to be one that seems to be in on all kinds of big, juicy rumors, but never gets anything close to a big deal done. Hell even with massive cap space, their biggest move was signing Randle and second business was signing Fournier. They will get Brogdon and then crow about how they final have their PG. Never mind that the guy plays 50 games a season and with the minutes that Thibs likes to play his guys, maybe he plays 25 games. Heading into the third year of the Rose reign, they have very little to show. The extra first round picks were acquired before Rose came on; the cap space was built before Rose was hired; and Randle, love him or hate him, was a previous regime's hire. Rose's HQ has acquired a ton of second round picks; Obi, Grimes, Quickly and Fournier. Whoopde-damn-do.

What a load of crap..

What move did they miss out on? What big star that came available did they miss out on..

The Rose rrgime has set up the Knicks with a young foundation that you can start to talk about building around..

Randle's massive contract is the 50th highest salary in the entire NBA, so big..

Fournier was actually a good player for the Kbicks last year..

You want to kill them for not making a big splash fine but then tell me what you would of done that they missed out on?

In comment 15737086 nygiants16 said:

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People in touch with Sacramento say that in the club’s conversations with New York, the Knicks have talked about offering multiple first-round picks in a package for the No. 4 pick. I don’t know which players were offered, but it wasn’t enough to lock a deal in.

This has been my concern all along: the Knicks' roster is so bad that the only assets they have that other teams want are their future first round picks.

If other teams don't want your players, it should be clue that you're at square one and should be accumulating picks.

But this FO isn't going to accept that. Only real question is how big of a crater it will leave upon departure.

In comment 15737101 shyster said:

Quote:

In comment 15737086 nygiants16 said: Quote: People in touch with Sacramento say that in the club’s conversations with New York, the Knicks have talked about offering multiple first-round picks in a package for the No. 4 pick. I don’t know which players were offered, but it wasn’t enough to lock a deal in. This has been my concern all along: the Knicks' roster is so bad that the only assets they have that other teams want are their future first round picks. If other teams don't want your players, it should be clue that you're at square one and should be accumulating picks. But this FO isn't going to accept that. Only real question is how big of a crater it will leave upon departure.

The Kbicks have no assets or youbg players to build around if they go get Ivey?

worst thing the Knicks can do is overpay Brunson or give up a ton to move up to take Ivey. They should just unload as many contracts as they can and get set up for next offseason.

In comment 15737086 nygiants16 said:

Quote:

Things are always fluid this year. As of this moment (mid-morning on Tuesday), I believe that the Knicks can get up to No. 4 to select Jaden Ivey. It would take a significant price. People in touch with Sacramento say that in the club’s conversations with New York, the Knicks have talked about offering multiple first-round picks in a package for the No. 4 pick. I don’t know which players were offered, but it wasn’t enough to lock a deal in. Negotiations with the Kings for the No. 4 pick will probably extend into Thursday evening. Sacramento doesn’t have to trade the pick; why wouldn’t the Kings wait until the final hour to see what the best offer looks like?

Although I don't think it's going to happen, if it did it wouldn't happen until draft night. There's absolutely no reason the Knicks should make the deal now and then risk another team that covets Ivey jumping up to picks 1-3.

In comment 15737101 shyster said:

Quote:

In comment 15737086 nygiants16 said: Quote: People in touch with Sacramento say that in the club’s conversations with New York, the Knicks have talked about offering multiple first-round picks in a package for the No. 4 pick. I don’t know which players were offered, but it wasn’t enough to lock a deal in. This has been my concern all along: the Knicks' roster is so bad that the only assets they have that other teams want are their future first round picks. If other teams don't want your players, it should be clue that you're at square one and should be accumulating picks. But this FO isn't going to accept that. Only real question is how big of a crater it will leave upon departure.

Agreed.

to make some moves before I pass judgement.

But let's not pretend that the floor here (not making any big trades but keeping picks and drafting solid players at their slot) is light years ahead of previous GMs.

My biggest gripe is the mismatch between coach and front office strategy to date. Is there a plan there?

In comment 15737119 widmerseyebrow said:

Quote:

to make some moves before I pass judgement. But let's not pretend that the floor here (not making any big trades but keeping picks and drafting solid players at their slot) is light years ahead of previous GMs. My biggest gripe is the mismatch between coach and front office strategy to date. Is there a plan there?

isn't light years ahead*

In comment 15737109 AcidTest said:

Quote:

worst thing the Knicks can do is overpay Brunson or give up a ton to move up to take Ivey. They should just unload as many contracts as they can and get set up for next offseason.

I don't agree re: Ivey. If they have conviction in Ivey as a potential star and they're right then whatever they give up will be too little. Imagine if the Knicks had paid an exorbitant price to move up 1 slot and get Curry, or traded with Atlanta to get Doncic or even gave up a couple of firsts to move up 1 slot and get Morant... we'd be in a very different situation as a franchise. Yet in any of those scenarios most fans (and likely the media) would've killed them in the near-term for paying the price it would likely have cost to move up.

and not give up Iq, Rj or Obi and then go and resign Mitch which i am not the biggest fan of but i get it..You Then have your starting 5 for the next 10 years hopefully..

Iq, Ivey, Rj, Obi, Mitch with a good bench and you are on to the future..

In comment 15737132 nygiants16 said:

Quote:

and not give up Iq, Rj or Obi and then go and resign Mitch which i am not the biggest fan of but i get it..You Then have your starting 5 for the next 10 years hopefully.. Iq, Ivey, Rj, Obi, Mitch with a good bench and you are on to the future..

I'd give up IQ or Obi in the deal provided the picks have some light protections (like top 3-4) as downside protection.

In comment 15737101 shyster said:

Quote:

This has been my concern all along: the Knicks' roster is so bad that the only assets they have that other teams want are their future first round picks. If other teams don't want your players, it should be clue that you're at square one and should be accumulating picks. But this FO isn't going to accept that. Only real question is how big of a crater it will leave upon departure.

I think this is misrepresenting it a bit though. Sacto doesn't need anything the Knicks have. Where's the foothold for a trade?

Sacramento has Fox and Davion Mitchell. It's not surprising they aren't jumping to trade pick 4 for Quickley or McBride.

They have Sabonis. Why would they want Randle?

Grimes or Mitch, those would be the only things that make roster sense.

The fits don't match up with what the Knicks have to offer. I wouldn't fill in the blanks to translate that to "The Knicks have nothing of value". To me that's just tripping over into woe is me knicks babble.

In comment 15737133 Strahan91 said:

Quote:

In comment 15737132 nygiants16 said: Quote: and not give up Iq, Rj or Obi and then go and resign Mitch which i am not the biggest fan of but i get it..You Then have your starting 5 for the next 10 years hopefully.. Iq, Ivey, Rj, Obi, Mitch with a good bench and you are on to the future.. I'd give up IQ or Obi in the deal provided the picks have some light protections (like top 3-4) as downside protection.

that would hurt, i get it but that would hurt and i love Ivey

In comment 15737104 nygiants16 said:

Quote:

The Kbicks have no assets or youbg players to build around if they go get Ivey?

No, I agree with Barkley. There is a lack of starter material on the roster.

Barrett is someone I can say I have rooted for as an individual, not just as a member of the team, but I can't say he has earned the contract he is going to want.

And projections about anyone else are based on flashes, nothing solid.

Ivey will be a stud, go get him. Multiple firsts, Randle, Quickley etc. I would rather keep Obi then Quickley IMO. An Ivey, Obi and RJ trio could be fun to watch.

In comment 15737128 Strahan91 said:

Quote:

I don't agree re: Ivey. If they have conviction in Ivey as a potential star and they're right then whatever they give up will be too little. Imagine if the Knicks had paid an exorbitant price to move up 1 slot and get Curry, or traded with Atlanta to get Doncic or even gave up a couple of firsts to move up 1 slot and get Morant... we'd be in a very different situation as a franchise. Yet in any of those scenarios most fans (and likely the media) would've killed them in the near-term for paying the price it would likely have cost to move up.

Agreed. A deal for Ivey is not going to look great for the Knicks on draft day, but if he is a future star then it's a bargain.

In comment 15737136 nygiants16 said:

Quote:

that would hurt, i get it but that would hurt and i love Ivey

For sure but I don't think either of them are franchise trajectory altering talents and I'd rather include one to get some light pick protections. In the case that it doesn't work out, you definitely don't want to compound the mistake by then missing out on a generational talent like Wembanyama.

Agreed on Ivey - if you think he is a star, go get him. Ultimately the Knicks need to take a swing at some point and for anyone who follows the KFS guys, they have done a good job walking through the limited ones that look to be coming available in the next couple of years. It would be a lot but if its something like 11, the 23 first unprotected, DAL first, Grimes, and Reddish for 4 and you are convinced Ivey is an all star, do it.

Talent to get Ivey.
I would think it's Obi he fits better with what the Kings need. If you trade multiple picks and Obi, grimes, etc. (Kings need wings)
You better be right and I am not sure Ivey is that change a franchise player.
Also I think Randle is on this team to start the season, which is going to be a big culture killer.

going to have to give up a ton to get Ivey, especially since the Wizards, Grizzlies, and possibly other teams are also interested. It's a bidding war. I'd inquire, but would likely say no because of the cost.

If Ivey is that good then he wouldn't last until four, especially since this isn't a great draft class from what I've read. Everybody needs a PG. The game is a lot more wide open that it was decades ago when teams were desperate for "bigs."

In comment 15737206 AcidTest said:

Quote:

going to have to give up a ton to get Ivey, especially since the Wizards, Grizzlies, and possibly other teams are also interested. It's a bidding war. I'd inquire, but would likely say no because of the cost. If Ivey is that good then he wouldn't last until four, especially since this isn't a great draft class from what I've read. Everybody needs a PG. The game is a lot more wide open that it was decades ago when teams were desperate for "bigs."

First off Ivey is not a PG, he is a combo guard, can play the 1 or 2..

Orlando just drafted Suggs and Cole Anthony..They need a big..

OKC has SGA, they could draft Ivey but most likely get a stretch big to pair with SGA..

Houston just drafted Green and Porter Jr, why would they take Ivey over 1 of the bigs?

saying Ivey is going 4 so thats a knock, is not really fair..

Plenty of superstars in this league didnt go 1 or 2..

Ayton and Bagley were drafted over Luka, Fultz and Ball over Tatum etc.

In comment 15737076 bceagle05 said:

Quote:

so I'd consider Mitch pretty close to a lock based on that tidbit.

Zach Lowe: “I’ve heard intel that they’re leaning towards re-signing Mitchell Robinson”

they thknk they cant let Mitch walk also..

we don't know what deals were out there that the Rose administration has missed on. It's been very quiet.

They were conservative last offseason with the cap space, which I think is the biggest criticism I have so far. But they have positioned this team reasonably well for the future.

Ton of salary coming off the books next season, a lot of young players who look like they belong in NBA rotations, and no future draft picks owed. Still hard to evaluate how they've done, as they have yet to take a swing.

In comment 15737244 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

In comment 15737076 bceagle05 said: Quote: so I'd consider Mitch pretty close to a lock based on that tidbit. Zach Lowe: “I’ve heard intel that they’re leaning towards re-signing Mitchell Robinson”

LFGK baby!

and take your chances at 11. LFG

contract looks like. There's not a lot of cap space out there so my assumption is that the ceiling for his deal is the MLE which is about $10 million per. Knicks can give the extra year which may be important to a guy who hasn't banked a ton of money so far in his career.

Is he was a bad fit for Purdue they were near the bottom in pace and he need to play in a fast pace system which is obviously not Thibs system.
He is a great fit if you move on from Randle and let the kids run.

In comment 15737138 TommyWiseau said:

Quote:

An Ivey, Obi and RJ trio could be fun to watch.

If the Knicks had flat out tanked for three years, RJ/Obi/Ivey would've been a realistic outcome. That's part of the reason I want them to close this deal, even if it stings a bit.

In comment 15737295 adamg said:

Quote:

and take your chances at 11. LFG

I would sign up for that. And then give me Tari Eason at 11.

In comment 15737321 Jan in DC said:

Quote:

In comment 15737295 adamg said: Quote: and take your chances at 11. LFG I would sign up for that. And then give me Tari Eason at 11.

Eason's body, skillset, potential reminds me of Kawhi Leonard at the time he was drafted.

I find it strange that he is routinely ranked below Jeremy Sochai. I think Eason is significantly better.

In comment 15737295 adamg said:

Quote:

and take your chances at 11. LFG

Wouldn't mind that either.

alder almo
@alderalmo
·
27s
Per ESPN's Jonathan Givony, rival teams believed the asking price for the 4th pick is a mix of an established vet, 2022 draft selection & a rookie-scale contract. Knicks are competing vs. Pacers (6), Wizards (10), Thunder (12), and Hawks (16) to trade up for No. 4.

In comment 15737341 nygiants16 said:

Quote:

alder almo @alderalmo · 27s Per ESPN's Jonathan Givony, rival teams believed the asking price for the 4th pick is a mix of an established vet, 2022 draft selection & a rookie-scale contract. Knicks are competing vs. Pacers (6), Wizards (10), Thunder (12), and Hawks (16) to trade up for No. 4.

A reporter for the athletic (I believe it was a Pacers' beat) mentioned that Sacramento asked for two firsts in addition to #6 which Indiana was not willing to do. That's a steep price for 2 slots.

4/45 or something, i guess thats fine. I just cant get past how little he has improved. Sure he doesnt foul as much, but thats it. ANd in todays league its a huge issue to have a 5 who is completely useless on offense outside of put backs and lobs.

I 100% hope im wrong and we resign him and he makes some small offensive improvements and stays healthy and is amazing.

In comment 15737358 Italianju said:

Quote:

4/45 or something, i guess thats fine. I just cant get past how little he has improved. Sure he doesnt foul as much, but thats it. ANd in todays league its a huge issue to have a 5 who is completely useless on offense outside of put backs and lobs. I 100% hope im wrong and we resign him and he makes some small offensive improvements and stays healthy and is amazing.

FT % is a major concern too (or indicator of your point)

like Jaden Ivey is Ja Morant. Did anyone see this guy play this year? Are we seriously thinking about giving up numerous assets for this guy? 9 points against St Peters in the tournament. Come one. Stay and make the pick at 11.

In comment 15737377 five5 said:

Quote:

like Jaden Ivey is Ja Morant. Did anyone see this guy play this year? Are we seriously thinking about giving up numerous assets for this guy? 9 points against St Peters in the tournament. Come one. Stay and make the pick at 11.

Because St. Peters had no bigs and Purdue played inside..Its how Purdue played all year..

Ourdue didnt play through Ivey they plaued through their bigs, its how teams in the big 10 play..

Doesnt mean Ivey isnt a good player, doesnt mean he is not worth the 4th overall pick..

might be worth the 4th pick in this draft but does that mean he is worth what it will take to move up from 11?

In comment 15737382 five5 said:

Quote:

might be worth the 4th pick in this draft but does that mean he is worth what it will take to move up from 11?

He has superstar talent, if the Knicks feel he is a game changer they are going to do it..

Now if they do it, this is their make or brrak move, if he busts, Rose and company are gone

In comment 15737358 Italianju said:

Quote:

4/45 or something, i guess thats fine. I just cant get past how little he has improved. Sure he doesnt foul as much, but thats it. ANd in todays league its a huge issue to have a 5 who is completely useless on offense outside of put backs and lobs. I 100% hope im wrong and we resign him and he makes some small offensive improvements and stays healthy and is amazing.

the free throw shooting is a big issue for me. He becomes almost unplayable late in games.

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Shams Charania
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Houston Rockets’ John Wall’s agent, Klutch Sports CEO Rich Paul, has informed the organization that the guard exercised his $47.4 million player option for the 2022-23 season, sources tell @TheAthletic
@Stadium
.

The Knicks have been much more active in talks than in previous years, also mentions the Knicks with Brogdon

In comment 15737405 nygiants16 said:

Quote:

The Knicks have been much more active in talks than in previous years, also mentions the Knicks with Brogdon

Yuck

In comment 15737402 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

Tweet See new Tweets Conversation Shams Charania @ShamsCharania Houston Rockets’ John Wall’s agent, Klutch Sports CEO Rich Paul, has informed the organization that the guard exercised his $47.4 million player option for the 2022-23 season, sources tell @TheAthletic @Stadium .

No brainer for Wall. Poor Rockets.

for Robinson in the MLE range, $44.5 million over four years

In comment 15737402 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

Tweet See new Tweets Conversation Shams Charania @ShamsCharania Houston Rockets’ John Wall’s agent, Klutch Sports CEO Rich Paul, has informed the organization that the guard exercised his $47.4 million player option for the 2022-23 season, sources tell @TheAthletic @Stadium .

Color me shocked!

HE was cooked 5 years ago.

In comment 15737405 nygiants16 said:

Quote:

The Knicks have been much more active in talks than in previous years, also mentions the Knicks with Brogdon

Great talent. Just made of glass.

Solid player. Would be surprised if they trade 11. Maybe a small trade down to pick up another asset and then deal that 1st rounder.

In comment 15737431 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:

Quote:

In comment 15737405 nygiants16 said: Quote: The Knicks have been much more active in talks than in previous years, also mentions the Knicks with Brogdon Great talent. Just made of glass.

Given he'll turn 30 during next season and with his extensive injury past, this makes no sense whatsoever.

Depends on cost imo. If the Knicks can get to #4 trading futures and none of the core 3 of Obi, RJ, Quick I'd be for Ivey. If not hang on to what we have and try to get Brogdon or Brunson. I still don't think either really move the needle as far as making us a contender. We need a splash move. However, that move may not be able to be made this offseason.

..

around the MLE for sure. At worst he becomes a trade piece. If you had a great PG who can setup mitch all the time and good shooters on your team then Mitch is a great fit. His D and offensive rebounding are great skills. Problem for is we dont have a great PG and we dont have great shooters, lol. Thats why im hesitant, but 4/45 like i said earlier is perfectly fine.

can we not do the thing where we say cause a guy is going to be there at x position in the draft it means he isnt going to be a superstar or worth trading up for. He is going to go top 5, do we need to run the list of players not taken in the top 5? I mean Curry, Giannis, Kawhi, Klay, George, butler, booker, mitchell, jokic, and on and on and on. I would have been pretty happy to give up 11, Grimes and a future first or whatever for those guys.

It just matters what the Knicks feel about the guy, im still willing to trust this FO for now.

but i feel like the amount of stars that come out of the mid point or later of the lottery is probably just as high as the ones that come in the top half. That doesnt really mean anything in connection to ivey since he is going top 5, more just a general thought. The top 5-6 bust rate is massive in the NBA draft, ha.

In comment 15737421 Strahan91 said:

Quote:

for Robinson in the MLE range, $44.5 million over four years

We all love Mitchell, but no, thank you. He's already shown time and time again his inability to remain healthy.

In comment 15737506 Anakim said:

Quote:

In comment 15737421 Strahan91 said: Quote: for Robinson in the MLE range, $44.5 million over four years We all love Mitchell, but no, thank you. He's already shown time and time again his inability to remain healthy.

Talk about someone who is made of glass, Mitch is one of those guys

I'd probably lean the latter. Not against Jayden-& I'd be stoked if he ends up a Knick-I just think Sharpe has the higher upside. The knock on Ivey is his defense, as in he sucks @ it & doesn't seem to give AF when it comes to that end of the court. Defense is so much effort &-for whatever faults Thibs has-the man has shown he can coach that side of the ball.

I am sure they have multiple things on the fire cooking and everything will depend on if they get Ivey or not..

I'd be shocked if Chet, Smith Jr., & Paolo weren't the top 3, in some order.

In comment 15737602 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:

Quote:

I'd be shocked if Chet, Smith Jr., & Paolo weren't the top 3, in some order.

Agreed i just dont know if Sacto is going to work with the Knicks..

They like the Knicks offer but they still are holding out for more, the Kings are content staying at 4 but also feel like they are going to get a great offer at the 11th hour..

Knicks are offering 11, both 23 picks and their 25th plus Grimes and Burks...Knicks have told them thats the best they can do..

In comment 15737609 nygiants16 said:

Quote:

In comment 15737602 SFGFNCGiantsFan said: Quote: I'd be shocked if Chet, Smith Jr., & Paolo weren't the top 3, in some order. Agreed i just dont know if Sacto is going to work with the Knicks.. They like the Knicks offer but they still are holding out for more, the Kings are content staying at 4 but also feel like they are going to get a great offer at the 11th hour.. Knicks are offering 11, both 23 picks and their 25th plus Grimes and Burks...Knicks have told them thats the best they can do..

Are you speculating or heard that somewhere?

In comment 15737609 nygiants16 said:

Quote:

In comment 15737602 SFGFNCGiantsFan said: Quote: I'd be shocked if Chet, Smith Jr., & Paolo weren't the top 3, in some order. Agreed i just dont know if Sacto is going to work with the Knicks.. They like the Knicks offer but they still are holding out for more, the Kings are content staying at 4 but also feel like they are going to get a great offer at the 11th hour.. Knicks are offering 11, both 23 picks and their 25th plus Grimes and Burks...Knicks have told them thats the best they can do..

Ivey better be the real deal to trade 2 additional 1sts. That's takes a lot of draft capital for another deal if a start shakes free.
I am not a fan of that deal at all

In comment 15737616 Strahan91 said:

Quote:

In comment 15737609 nygiants16 said: Quote: In comment 15737602 SFGFNCGiantsFan said: Quote: I'd be shocked if Chet, Smith Jr., & Paolo weren't the top 3, in some order. Agreed i just dont know if Sacto is going to work with the Knicks.. They like the Knicks offer but they still are holding out for more, the Kings are content staying at 4 but also feel like they are going to get a great offer at the 11th hour.. Knicks are offering 11, both 23 picks and their 25th plus Grimes and Burks...Knicks have told them thats the best they can do.. Are you speculating or heard that somewhere?

I have a friend that used to work for the Celtics, has a couple if friends still in the league that work for various teams, he has friend thaglt works for the Kings, gives him stuff wvery once in awhile

You heard Knicks are offering the following for just #4 pick:

#11 2022 pick
Mavs 2023 1st rd pick
Knicks 2023 1st rd pick
Knicks 2025 1st rd pick - assuming this could eventually become 2 2nd rounders
Grimes
Burks

That is a lot to give up. This is what I envisioned they would have to give up for Bradley Beal which is a sure thing. Seems like way too much to give up for an Unknown player. I would rather stay at 11. If you keep grimes and just trade the picks I can be talked into it I guess. Your basically eliminating any chance at the stud overseas player next year, so I would want to keep Knicks 2023 pick because they are likely a lottery team again.

4 1st round picks and 2 players??? U have to be kidding me. Give me Brogdon all day every day. Ivey is certainly the better athlete but I am not even sure he will be a better player. Typical Knicks move…for Jaden Ivey. Lol.

is really going all in on something - let's see if they can pull it off. Walt Perrin must've told Leon that Ivey is Donovan Mitchell, if not better. That's a monster offer. It would hurt, but I'll still be pretty excited 48 hours from now if we have Ivey, RJ, IQ, Obi and Mitch locked in. I'll miss Grimes though.

but I feel he can be another Westbrook, hopefully more of a winning player and less of a stat chaser. No matter how you feel about Westbrook, he's an impact player.

I'm warming up to Griffin too, even though he's from Duke. For some reason I thought he was an athlete who couldn't shoot, but he can actually shoot!! Doesn't seem to have the lateral quickness to be a creator though.

I'd settle for Sharpe too. Also athletic and can shoot, but he strikes me as an Anthony Edwards type. Of course, for him any opinion is just a conjecture at this point.

In comment 15737631 GMEN46 said:

Quote:

You heard Knicks are offering the following for just #4 pick: #11 2022 pick Mavs 2023 1st rd pick Knicks 2023 1st rd pick Knicks 2025 1st rd pick - assuming this could eventually become 2 2nd rounders Grimes Burks That is a lot to give up. This is what I envisioned they would have to give up for Bradley Beal which is a sure thing. Seems like way too much to give up for an Unknown player. I would rather stay at 11. If you keep grimes and just trade the picks I can be talked into it I guess. Your basically eliminating any chance at the stud overseas player next year, so I would want to keep Knicks 2023 pick because they are likely a lottery team again.

I dont know protections or anything like that, but Kings want more haha

In comment 15737634 bceagle05 said:

Quote:

is really going all in on something - let's see if they can pull it off. Walt Perrin must've told Leon that Ivey is Donovan Mitchell, if not better. That's a monster offer. It would hurt, but I'll still be pretty excited 48 hours from now if we have Ivey, RJ, IQ, Obi and Mitch locked in. I'll miss Grimes though.

This is how i am looking at it, add the right vets to this youth and you got something

11, top 5 protected 23 and IQ at the moment.

Mitch deal is going to be 4 years somewhere between $40-50 mill.

Don’t buy the Brogdon rumors.

They’re still fairly confident they’ll get Brunson even if they add Ivey

In comment 15737641 ajr2456 said:

Quote:

11, top 5 protected 23 and IQ at the moment. Mitch deal is going to be 4 years somewhere between $40-50 mill. Don’t buy the Brogdon rumors. They’re still fairly confident they’ll get Brunson even if they add Ivey

Brunson would be a great fit next to Ivey..

Rather keep iq and give up another draft pick

In comment 15737609 nygiants16 said:

Quote:

In comment 15737602 SFGFNCGiantsFan said: Quote: I'd be shocked if Chet, Smith Jr., & Paolo weren't the top 3, in some order. Agreed i just dont know if Sacto is going to work with the Knicks.. They like the Knicks offer but they still are holding out for more, the Kings are content staying at 4 but also feel like they are going to get a great offer at the 11th hour.. Knicks are offering 11, both 23 picks and their 25th plus Grimes and Burks...Knicks have told them thats the best they can do..

Trades like that is what has made this team a decades-long joke.

In comment 15737641 ajr2456 said:

Quote:

11, top 5 protected 23 and IQ at the moment. Mitch deal is going to be 4 years somewhere between $40-50 mill. Don’t buy the Brogdon rumors. They’re still fairly confident they’ll get Brunson even if they add Ivey

Are the knicks looking to trade Randle ? Please say yes

I'd have to insist they take Randle

Fun conversation even if we wind up sticking at #11.

I'd imagine landing Ivey would make them more aggressive in their pursuit of Brunson.It is a great pairing, and you might as well go all out.

In comment 15737647 Giantfan21 said:

Quote:

In comment 15737641 ajr2456 said: Quote: 11, top 5 protected 23 and IQ at the moment. Mitch deal is going to be 4 years somewhere between $40-50 mill. Don’t buy the Brogdon rumors. They’re still fairly confident they’ll get Brunson even if they add Ivey Are the knicks looking to trade Randle ? Please say yes

Don’t see a trade market for Randle until after the draft but they still do want to

Who has the more reliable source. Hate to part with IQ but I guess if your getting Brunson you make that deal? Do we like brunson that much more than IQ?

Missing on draft picks, bad luck in the lottery, and trading/signing overpriced players who were not stars has been.

Trading for a rookie who they feel can be a star is the right move. If they are wrong they most likely won’t be around to make another big mistake. But, these are the types of swings they should be taking if they are giving up draft capital.

In comment 15737651 bceagle05 said:

Quote:

Fun conversation even if we wind up sticking at #11. I'd imagine landing Ivey would make them more aggressive in their pursuit of Brunson.It is a great pairing, and you might as well go all out.

Getting the vibe they’re confident they’ll end up with both.

In comment 15737653 GMEN46 said:

Quote:

Who has the more reliable source. Hate to part with IQ but I guess if your getting Brunson you make that deal? Do we like brunson that much more than IQ?

He probably does since his is with the Knicks organization, mine is coming from the Kings

#11 2022 pick
Mavs 2023 1st rd pick
Knicks 2023 1st rd pick
Knicks 2025 1st rd pick - assuming this could eventually become 2 2nd rounders
Grimes
Burks

Is Randle and Thibs, Ivey is only successful quickly in a high pace offense like a young Westbrook.
If they make this move Randle needs to go and let the kids play quickly. This really doesn't feel like a Rose type move unless he is final feeling the pressure to go big or go home.

Quickley to make it happen.

My biggest concern is OBI. He played great at the end of the season and if Randle is still on the team next year he is going to end up playing 13 minutes a night again. Hopefully they are trading Randle but if for some reason they decide not to they need to sell high on OBI while his value is at highest instead of him being buried on the bench and becoming a depreciated asset .

In comment 15737656 nygiants16 said:

Quote:

He probably does since his is with the Knicks organization, mine is coming from the Kings

Well that would be freaking awesome.

would be awesome.

Offers going back and forth and just keeps changing by both party’s. Knicks are not patient as they have been the last two years.

seems incongruous. Even if Ivey turns into something, that's likely 3-4 years away - which is how long Brunson's contract would be. I really don't like moving on from Quickley - but moving up to #4 is not going to be cheap.

In comment 15737671 Carl in CT said:

Quote:

Offers going back and forth and just keeps changing by both party’s. Knicks are not patient as they have been the last two years.

I have heard kings are confident they will get a deal for 4, now thats a general statement not necassarily with the Knicks...

Do you think from what you heard the Knicms are confident?

But both are pretty step. Ivey is my second best player in the Draft, but next year's crop is supposed to be really, really good. I'd be hesitant to part with a first rounder next year, but obviously it'll be necessary if we move up.

In comment 15737678 Anakim said:

Quote:

But both are pretty step. Ivey is my second best player in the Draft, but next year's crop is supposed to be really, really good. I'd be hesitant to part with a first rounder next year, but obviously it'll be necessary if we move up.

*steep

In comment 15737659 larryflower37 said:

Quote:

Is Randle and Thibs, Ivey is only successful quickly in a high pace offense like a young Westbrook. If they make this move Randle needs to go and let the kids play quickly. This really doesn't feel like a Rose type move unless he is final feeling the pressure to go big or go home.

The stretch where Randle played his best ball last year he was pushing the ball like crazy. I think he'd be happy to play at that pace. Thibs on the other hand...I think Randle has dominated the ball out of necessity the past few years when he's on the court because of the complete shit we've had at PG unless Rose is on the court and Rose mainly looks for his own shot. I think it might be interesting to see if Randle could mesh with them.

?

Ian Begley
@IanBegley

From earlier: Knicks have talked to DET about potential move up in draft; Cam Reddish was one name that came up:




But I guess that's assuming the Kings stay put and go with Murray and Ivey drops to 5?

In comment 15737695 robbieballs2003 said:

Quote:

?

The Knicks would make the 11th pick first and then they coukd trade both 23rds

In comment 15737695 robbieballs2003 said:

Quote:

?

Draft night trades aren’t official until after the draft

and keeping 11

We have talked about this before,if they can make it happen,it might be a better move.

Sacramento will take it right up until the clock and take the best available offer on the table..

Also says Brogdon will be traded any time between now and the start of the draft

He expects a lot of action from Knicks this week, they are active trying to clear salary to go after Brunson

In comment 15737641 ajr2456 said:

Quote:

11, top 5 protected 23 and IQ at the moment. Mitch deal is going to be 4 years somewhere between $40-50 mill. Don’t buy the Brogdon rumors. They’re still fairly confident they’ll get Brunson even if they add Ivey

Brunson-Ivey-RJ-Obi-Mitch

Rose-Deuce-Cam-Sims

That'd be interesting to see. Plus we'd probably be moving Randle, Fournier, and Noel for assets...

In comment 15737609 nygiants16 said:

Quote:

In comment 15737602 SFGFNCGiantsFan said: Quote: I'd be shocked if Chet, Smith Jr., & Paolo weren't the top 3, in some order. Agreed i just dont know if Sacto is going to work with the Knicks.. They like the Knicks offer but they still are holding out for more, the Kings are content staying at 4 but also feel like they are going to get a great offer at the 11th hour.. Knicks are offering 11, both 23 picks and their 25th plus Grimes and Burks...Knicks have told them thats the best they can do..

I seriously doubt that's enough. They'll want Obi and one of Cam or IQ as well as the picks.

In comment 15737693 Stu11 said:

Quote:

In comment 15737659 larryflower37 said: Quote: Is Randle and Thibs, Ivey is only successful quickly in a high pace offense like a young Westbrook. If they make this move Randle needs to go and let the kids play quickly. This really doesn't feel like a Rose type move unless he is final feeling the pressure to go big or go home. The stretch where Randle played his best ball last year he was pushing the ball like crazy. I think he'd be happy to play at that pace. Thibs on the other hand...I think Randle has dominated the ball out of necessity the past few years when he's on the court because of the complete shit we've had at PG unless Rose is on the court and Rose mainly looks for his own shot. I think it might be interesting to see if Randle could mesh with them.

Stu, Randle loves to handle the ball and play ISO the run and gun is left to the kids Rose was good at pushing the pace and increase the pace. I thinks thats why Thibs played them apart.
Obi would be great in that pace.

In comment 15737727 larryflower37 said:

Quote:

In comment 15737693 Stu11 said: Quote: In comment 15737659 larryflower37 said: Quote: Is Randle and Thibs, Ivey is only successful quickly in a high pace offense like a young Westbrook. If they make this move Randle needs to go and let the kids play quickly. This really doesn't feel like a Rose type move unless he is final feeling the pressure to go big or go home. The stretch where Randle played his best ball last year he was pushing the ball like crazy. I think he'd be happy to play at that pace. Thibs on the other hand...I think Randle has dominated the ball out of necessity the past few years when he's on the court because of the complete shit we've had at PG unless Rose is on the court and Rose mainly looks for his own shot. I think it might be interesting to see if Randle could mesh with them. Stu, Randle loves to handle the ball and play ISO the run and gun is left to the kids Rose was good at pushing the pace and increase the pace. I thinks thats why Thibs played them apart. Obi would be great in that pace.

I'm not saying he doesn't iso and dominate the ball a lot, though if you watched his 10 game or so hot streak he was pushing it a lot. I think he could play that pace if they don't trade him.

In comment 15737641 ajr2456 said:

Quote:

11, top 5 protected 23 and IQ at the moment. Mitch deal is going to be 4 years somewhere between $40-50 mill. Don’t buy the Brogdon rumors. They’re still fairly confident they’ll get Brunson even if they add Ivey

I’m surprised that Dallas’s 2023 1st isn’t also on the table. Sounds like Leon is opening conservative. That offer will beef up before the Kings clock runs out on draft night.

Said Brunson is telling other Mavs he’s staying in Dallas

In comment 15737756 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

Said Brunson is telling other Mavs he’s staying in Dallas

Man it would suck use assets to clear cap for July 1 an come up empty again in FA.

In comment 15737759 Heisenberg said:

Quote:

In comment 15737756 DanMetroMan said: Quote: Said Brunson is telling other Mavs he’s staying in Dallas Man it would suck use assets to clear cap for July 1 an come up empty again in FA.

It's the Knicks way.

knows what offers are out there. If Dallas is willing to exceed what others teams pay, everyone else is dead in the water.

In comment 15737756 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

Said Brunson is telling other Mavs he’s staying in Dallas

and Woj was on last night on espn said Knicks were specifically trying to clear space for Brunson..

Can see him pulling a JD/Gorton if Rose doesn’t do something significant this offseason.

And give up assets to clear space without knowing if he is 100% coming, then everyone involved should be shown the door immediately. I would assume if they clear space they are doing so with a commitment already in place.

Jalen Brunson's plan, or at least will before we start making significant moves. That's always been the biggest plus of Leon/Wes running things - at least they'll have solid intel, unlike Mills, Perry, Phil and others.

he made sure to keep saying the Knicks are still involved, they still have a chance..

Bleacher Report’s Jake Fischer: Mavericks favorites to re-sign Jalen Brunson
Fischer went as far to say current and former Brunson teammates have been told it’s done deal

“It does still sound like Dallas is by far the leader in the clubhouse to retain [Jalen Brunson],” Fischer said. “I’ve even heard that he has told former teammates and current teammates that it’s basically like a done deal.”

enrage me is trading the 11 pick for Brogdon. Even in a salary dump. That's a move that is extremely shortsighted and would be extremely disappointing to me.

For 11 would be the first true “that’s so Knicks” move of the Leon era. Like truly baffling. Again… turning 30 with absolutely ridiculous injury history….

the deal would already be done

If we were to land Ivey also. Can’t trust the guy to play more then 50 games

In comment 15737785 Jan in DC said:

Quote:

enrage me is trading the 11 pick for Brogdon. Even in a salary dump. That's a move that is extremely shortsighted and would be extremely disappointing to me.

I really can't come up with a Brogdon trade that wouldn't annoy me. Obviously Randle is a contract they may be looking to move, but at least Randle plays. And what's more likely? Randle shakes off whatever was bothering him last year and gets back to 80-90 percent of what he was in 20/21 - or Brogdon magically becomes durable in his 30s?

In comment 15737789 nygiants16 said:

Quote:

the deal would already be done

Correct

for Brunson? I mean this isnt the knicks of old with 10 bloated contracts. I know people still look and say Noel makes 10 mill?!?!?!? But 10 mill is pennies these days. So i wouldnt expect to have to attach much if anything to move Noel/Burks. THe fournier deal is a little worse but he is still a useful NBA player, its not like he is always hurt or making 30 mill a year to be a borderline NBA starter.

This FO hasnt really given me reasons to think they are going to do something dumb like give up 11 for Brogdon, so until it happens im not going to stress myself on it.

but at the same time i want to see Obi start and get 30 minutes and with Randle here it is just not going to happen..

Obi and quickley need 30 minutes a night this season, no more 15 minute games

In comment 15737802 Italianju said:

Quote:

for Brunson? I mean this isnt the knicks of old with 10 bloated contracts. I know people still look and say Noel makes 10 mill?!?!?!? But 10 mill is pennies these days. So i wouldnt expect to have to attach much if anything to move Noel/Burks. THe fournier deal is a little worse but he is still a useful NBA player, its not like he is always hurt or making 30 mill a year to be a borderline NBA starter. This FO hasnt really given me reasons to think they are going to do something dumb like give up 11 for Brogdon, so until it happens im not going to stress myself on it.

Sounds like 25 million starting salary so thats Burks, Noel and Kemba..

They can get to 40 by clearimg Rose with those guys

an asset to move walker and/or Fournier. Fournier due to the contract and Walker mostly due to who knows if he can even play anymore. Im not faulting them at all for signing walker, but i do wonder if we had to do the 2 years. Was anyone else going to offer close to 10 mill at the time. I honestly dont remember.

guys like Noel and/or Kemba. It's not ideal, but the cap hits would be small. They could even buy out Kemba and maybe save some money if there's a team that wants to give him a one year deal for 3-4 million or whatever.

In comment 15737789 nygiants16 said:

Quote:

the deal would already be done

Let’s hope that rumor is untrue. Trading 11 for an average PG (yes, that’s better than what the Knicks currently have) would be crazy.

I’d sign for AJ Griffin right now. I think his offensive upside is tremendous.

I bet the two years is OKC needed him to give up enough salary to make it worthwhile to buy him out, and that was the way to make him whole. In hindsight, the fact OKC bought him out at all and didn't rehab him to flip him really should have been a bigger red flag.

In comment 15737809 Italianju said:

Quote:

an asset to move walker and/or Fournier. Fournier due to the contract and Walker mostly due to who knows if he can even play anymore. Im not faulting them at all for signing walker, but i do wonder if we had to do the 2 years. Was anyone else going to offer close to 10 mill at the time. I honestly dont remember.

there was probably a limit on what OKC was willing to keep on their books. The whole transaction (Kemba's new contract with us and his buyout with OKC) was basicaly one big move.

something to keep an eye on

In comment 15737815 nygiants16 said:

Quote:

something to keep an eye on

What does that mean?

Rank Name UPSIDE Comparison
1 Jabari Smith Jaren Jackson
2 Jaden Ivey John Wall
3 Jalen Duren Robert Williams
4 Paolo Banchero Tobias Harris
5 Dyson Daniels Sean Elliot
6 Chet Holmgren Kristaps Portzingis
7 Bennedict Mathurin Andrew Wiggins
8 Johnny Davis Poor man's Devin Booker
9 Tari Eason OG Onunoby
10 Shaedon Sharpe a sane JR Smith
11 Keegan Murray Saddiq Bey
12 Mark Williams Clint Capela
13 AJ Griffin Kevin Huerter
15 EJ Liddell Grant Williams
14 Jeremy Sochan Herb Jones
16 Malaki Branham Khris Middleton
17 TyTy Washington Immanual Quickley
18 Kennedy Chandler Dennis Schroeder
19 Dalen Terry Spencer Dinwiddie
20 Ousmane Dieng Nic Batum
21 Jalen Williams Quinton Grimes
22 Nikola Jovic Danilo Gallinari
23 Wendell Moore Bruce Brown
24 Jaden Hardy Cam Thomas
26 Blake Wesley Kerry Kittles
25 Ochai Agbaji Royce O'Neale
27 Patrick Baldwin Bojan Bogdanovic (Utah)
28 Walker Kessler Hasaan Whiteside
29 Max Christie Aaron Nesmith
30 John Butler Nic Claxton

who the knicks are going to pick, lol. But it could also mean there is an expectation that some news could come out that could drastically alter the odds. Pick traded, trade up, trade down, etc...

In comment 15737818 Anakim said:

Quote:

In comment 15737815 nygiants16 said: Quote: something to keep an eye on What does that mean?

It coukd mean they are getting an abnormal amount of bets on a certain bet or they have intel on something coming and want to take it off before it is made public

But I'd rather go with Dennis Schroder or Tyus Jones for 1 or 2 years for relatively cheap than break the bank for Brunson, overreach for TyTy or sign Kyrie.


And I think it's ridiculous to re-sign Robinson for that much. The guy can't stay healthy. Pursue Bamba instead.

doesnt get much less then Mitch does and im not sure he is any better or healthier. That mitch deal is essentially the MLE, id guess Bamba gets close to that as well. And I say all that as a guy who has consistently said i wouldnt resign Mitch, but that was when i thought the number would creap closer to 15 per then 10

In comment 15737827 Anakim said:

Quote:

But I'd rather go with Dennis Schroder or Tyus Jones for 1 or 2 years for relatively cheap than break the bank for Brunson, overreach for TyTy or sign Kyrie. And I think it's ridiculous to re-sign Robinson for that much. The guy can't stay healthy. Pursue Bamba instead.

Mitch, drafted same year, has played more games and minutes than Bamba. He's also a better defender and a legit starting center. Even with the clear difference in shooting, Mitch has a better OBPM, probably because he's a better offensive rebounder.

So, I don't think Bamba is gonna be especially cheap and the Knicks only have the MLE to sign him. Clearly better to bring back Mitch, who I think is the better player, assuming the contract isn't that bad.

In comment 15737827 Anakim said:

Quote:

But I'd rather go with Dennis Schroder or Tyus Jones for 1 or 2 years for relatively cheap than break the bank for Brunson, overreach for TyTy or sign Kyrie. And I think it's ridiculous to re-sign Robinson for that much. The guy can't stay healthy. Pursue Bamba instead.

I disagree on Brunson. He's a culture changer. He's the exact opposite of the poison Julius Randle puts in the Knicks sauce. Brunson is 25 and would be a great leader of this young roster for many years to come.

I do agree that Bamba is a better choice than Mitch (for cost, durability, improvement projection).

.

In comment 15737785 Jan in DC said:

Quote:

enrage me is trading the 11 pick for Brogdon. Even in a salary dump. That's a move that is extremely shortsighted and would be extremely disappointing to me.

Agreed. Stay away from Brogdon, now watch the Knicks trade for him. :)

Wasserman has the Knicks selecting Duke's Griffin.

Jonathan Wasserman
@NBADraftWass
Updated mock draft, day before the day https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10039256-brs-final-2022-nba-mock-draft?share=twitter

In comment 15737857 GFAN52 said:

Quote:

Wasserman has the Knicks selecting Duke's Griffin. Jonathan Wasserman @NBADraftWass Updated mock draft, day before the day https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10039256-brs-final-2022-nba-mock-draft?share=twitter

Would be hard to be disappointed by adding this kind of shooting.

In comment 15737836 Heisenberg said:

Quote:

Mitch, drafted same year, has played more games and minutes than Bamba. He's also a better defender and a legit starting center. Even with the clear difference in shooting, Mitch has a better OBPM, probably because he's a better offensive rebounder. So, I don't think Bamba is gonna be especially cheap and the Knicks only have the MLE to sign him. Clearly better to bring back Mitch, who I think is the better player, assuming the contract isn't that bad.

Selective use of advanced metrics, given that Win Share and VORP both favor Bamba and by substantial margins.

Bamba has such a different game offensively (38% from 3, 78% FT) that there really is no comparison.

As for defense, Mitch can dominate against the right matchup but he can also be outclassed. Anthony Davis physically humiliated him in the national TV game that everybody saw.

In comment 15737863 Heisenberg said:

Quote:

In comment 15737857 GFAN52 said: Quote: Wasserman has the Knicks selecting Duke's Griffin. Jonathan Wasserman @NBADraftWass Updated mock draft, day before the day https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10039256-brs-final-2022-nba-mock-draft?share=twitter Would be hard to be disappointed by adding this kind of shooting.

He has a high ceiling if he can remain injury free.

ranks Griffin 13th with a very negative scouting report

Woo had him 11th with a more positive but also not so great report.

In comment 15737865 shyster said:

Quote:

In comment 15737836 Heisenberg said: Quote: Mitch, drafted same year, has played more games and minutes than Bamba. He's also a better defender and a legit starting center. Even with the clear difference in shooting, Mitch has a better OBPM, probably because he's a better offensive rebounder. So, I don't think Bamba is gonna be especially cheap and the Knicks only have the MLE to sign him. Clearly better to bring back Mitch, who I think is the better player, assuming the contract isn't that bad. Selective use of advanced metrics, given that Win Share and VORP both favor Bamba and by substantial margins. Bamba has such a different game offensively (38% from 3, 78% FT) that there really is no comparison. As for defense, Mitch can dominate against the right matchup but he can also be outclassed. Anthony Davis physically humiliated him in the national TV game that everybody saw.

Hardly selective. Mitch has higher VORP, WS and WS/48 than Bamba

There's a reasonable argument that Bamba's shooting would help the other players in a way that Mitch can't and that his upside therefore is higher. But in terms of their actual contributions on the floor, Mitch is the better player. The shooting is the only way that Bamba is better than Mitch - although it's also a pretty important one. And when AD is on, Mo Bamba is not a better matchup than Mitch, either. Both will get whupped, probably.

In comment 15737878 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

ranks Griffin 13th with a very negative scouting report Woo had him 11th with a more positive but also not so great report.

I would not worry, seems the Knicks will probably trade up down or out of that pick.

said he has very slow feet, might have to play the 4 (at 6'6), defensive indicators were poor and his one real skill at this point is catch and shoot ability.

NBACentral
@TheNBACentral
·
1m
The Brooklyn Nets are offering Kyrie Irving a four-year, $192 million max contract, per @BobbyMarks42


“The first two years of the deal are guaranteed, but Year 3 and Year 4 are not guaranteed unless he hits games played minimums of 65 games in 22-23 and 23-24.”

In comment 15737892 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

NBACentral @TheNBACentral · 1m The Brooklyn Nets are offering Kyrie Irving a four-year, $192 million max contract, per @BobbyMarks42 “The first two years of the deal are guaranteed, but Year 3 and Year 4 are not guaranteed unless he hits games played minimums of 65 games in 22-23 and 23-24.”

Smart deal by Brooklyn gives them a almost guaranteed out after 2 years and if they are going to make a real run in the next 2 years they need Kyrie.

In comment 15737892 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

NBACentral @TheNBACentral · 1m The Brooklyn Nets are offering Kyrie Irving a four-year, $192 million max contract, per @BobbyMarks42 “The first two years of the deal are guaranteed, but Year 3 and Year 4 are not guaranteed unless he hits games played minimums of 65 games in 22-23 and 23-24.”

Smart offer. This is where the rubber hits the road. Hard to believe someone is going to offer him the full max guaranteed. They're calling his bluff.

offer and I'd be shocked if he doesn't take it (or something very close to it, adjusting the games played etc)

In comment 15737883 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

said he has very slow feet, might have to play the 4 (at 6'6), defensive indicators were poor and his one real skill at this point is catch and shoot ability.

Youngest American prospect is also the best 3 point shooter in the draft. He would’ve finished 3rd in the country if he was eligible. If the Knicks can’t get a PG, they need someone who can hit a shot. Unfortunately, the draft is deepest at the 3 positions the Knicks also have a logjam.

like the tweet was deleted, so I guess Marks was in fact misquoted.

In comment 15737907 shockeyisthebest8056 said:

Quote:

In comment 15737883 DanMetroMan said: Quote: said he has very slow feet, might have to play the 4 (at 6'6), defensive indicators were poor and his one real skill at this point is catch and shoot ability. Youngest American prospect is also the best 3 point shooter in the draft. He would’ve finished 3rd in the country if he was eligible. If the Knicks can’t get a PG, they need someone who can hit a shot. Unfortunately, the draft is deepest at the 3 positions the Knicks also have a logjam.

Might be young but does this sound appealing?


"13. A.J. Griffin | 6-6 freshman | SG | Duke

Griffin is 6-6 with a 7-foot wingspan and shot 44.7 percent from 3 on relatively high volume last year, which will be the press release summary from the team that picks him. That might have you thinking “3-and-D!” But let’s stop the presses on the D part.

Griffin’s defensive tape is … not good. He may have to play four, even at 6-6, because he has decent strength but his feet are stuck in concrete. He is very slow sliding his feet and reacting to an opponent’s first move and had absolutely no chance checking quick guards.

Going through his tape, I found it one thing to see ACC Player of the Year Alondes Williams cook him on a straight-line drive; when a random dude from Army did the same thing, that’s when the red flags really started flapping in the wind. Griffin’s indicator stats aren’t great either, with a pathetic steal rate for a wing (just 1.1 per 100 possessions in ACC play).

Offensively, he didn’t impress when he put it on the floor, but the threat of his shot does open lanes for him pretty easily and widen his margin for error. Also, did I mention his shooting? Griffin has a low release point but moves to get himself open and can knock down catch-and-shoots from a variety of platforms. I don’t see him being a guy who can come flying off screens locked-and-loaded, but he’s an elite catch-and-shoot threat from Day 1. That gives him value even if he struggles at the other end, and at just 19, there’s at least a shred of hope he can keep improving the defense."

Knicks guard Alec Burks underwent foot surgery and is expected to return for the start of training camp, sources tell @TheAthletic.

"SUMMARY
Griffin’s game comes down to how much you buy him as a shot creator. If you think he’s such a good shooter and jump-shot
creator that he can average an efficient 20 points per game almost purely living on 3-pointers and pull-ups, then you should
have him in the top five. As a scorer, I would argue that he has the most upside in the draft outside of the top four guys because
of that value as a shooter. I completely buy him as a 40 percent shooter from 3 if you get him a steady stream of kickouts. If you
start to throw in his potential athletic gains as he gets further from injury, then it’s easy to see how you could have him that
high. But if you don’t buy him as being able to get enough separation because his stiffness and athleticism limits how fluid and
functional he can be, then there is some real downside because of how poor he is on defense. When he’s not scoring, he can
be invisible because he’s not making an impact as a defender, transition driver or passer. There were far too many moments
where he was a passenger for Duke. This is a risk/reward pick. The general manager who picks him might end up with the kind
of scorer who can get to his spots and shoot over the top because of how special his touch is. Or they might end up with a floorspacing defensive liability. Take your chances.

also projects him to be a 6'6 4.

In comment 15737911 larryflower37 said:

Quote:

Knicks guard Alec Burks underwent foot surgery and is expected to return for the start of training camp, sources tell @TheAthletic.

Sounds like he had the surgery a few months ago per Begley

In comment 15737880 Heisenberg said:

Quote:

In comment 15737865 shyster said: Hardly selective. Mitch has higher VORP, WS and WS/48 than Bamba

Apologies. I was looking at the same pages in B Ref side-by-side but got them crossed up.

In comment 15737827 Anakim said:

Quote:

But I'd rather go with Dennis Schroder or Tyus Jones for 1 or 2 years for relatively cheap than break the bank for Brunson, overreach for TyTy or sign Kyrie. And I think it's ridiculous to re-sign Robinson for that much. The guy can't stay healthy. Pursue Bamba instead.

I don't completely love Mitch but all we seem to be doing is talking about Mitch's shortcomings rather than what he brings.

And Bamba has missed as much or more time than Robinson the last 4 seasons. Not sure why though...I just see similar games...


Mo - ( New Window )

did play in 72 games last year.

Again, i'd move Robinson if it helped the team. I'd even let him walk if the Knicks had other plans up their sleeve.
Mitch - ( New Window )

had long Covid which is a major reason he missed so many games. I'm not "defending" him and I prefer Mitch but it's worth noting.

up, Bamba apparently later denied he actually had "long haul" Covid, though the Magic apparently felt otherwise or had?

He said he felt good physically and couldn’t understand why his body wasn’t responding to the conditioning work. He said the athlete in him wanted to keep pushing through the adversity but eventually his physical struggles reached the point where Bamba realized something bigger was at play.

Eventually, the Magic’s human performance staff decided it was best for Bamba to leave the bubble for a comprehensive post-coronavirus evaluation.

Bamba, who had tested positive for COVID-19 on June 11, appeared in the second half in each of the team’s first two seeding games but did not play again and left before the team’s finale against the Pelicans.

Bamba nodded in agreement when asked if having the comprehensive test helped lift a weight off his shoulders.

If I am Nets, let Kyrie walk. Not worth the headache.

letting him walk or a S&T and trading KD. Yes its a rebuild, but i dont think that team is winning shit with Kyrie/KD. The rest of the team just isnt good enough to compete with the rest of the top top teams. By the time they can put enough extra talent around KD he will be like 35. He already started to look like a really good player and not "one of the top 5 players in the game". Like he isnt carrying you to a title.

In comment 15737919 shyster said:

Quote:

In comment 15737880 Heisenberg said: Quote: In comment 15737865 shyster said: Hardly selective. Mitch has higher VORP, WS and WS/48 than Bamba Apologies. I was looking at the same pages in B Ref side-by-side but got them crossed up.

No worries! In that spirit, I will admit that I am somewhat biased here to re-sign Mitch because I want the Knicks to fucking re-sign a draft pick so I can stop hearing the "not since Charlie Ward" stat. :)

like Zion has lost significant weight, now can he keep it off?

Knicks are "calling teams left and right" trying to move Burks, and making calls on Noel/Walker and feels they would be willing to attach picks to move them

In comment 15737930 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

had long Covid which is a major reason he missed so many games. I'm not "defending" him and I prefer Mitch but it's worth noting.

Thanks Yea I wasn't sure when I saw the games played...kind of figured there was some covid time in there.

In comment 15737956 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

Knicks are "calling teams left and right" trying to move Burks, and making calls on Noel/Walker and feels they would be willing to attach picks to move them

Attaching picks to move them, it’s the usual Knicks way of doing business.

I don't even think it's close

Give Robinson a boat load of cash,and you'll still see him walking off the court shaking his head,talking to himself.But one day he'll just keep going to the parking lot,won't stop at the bench.

- Scouts think Rokas's ceiling is a good backup, unlikely to come over this year, and potentially not even next.

Jonathan Givony: “I don’t think the Wizards are gonna put their 10th pick in a Brogdon trade, [but] the Knicks are looking very hard at putting in pick 11”

In comment 15737965 Strahan91 said:

Quote:

Jonathan Givony: “I don’t think the Wizards are gonna put their 10th pick in a Brogdon trade, [but] the Knicks are looking very hard at putting in pick 11”

Awful.

In comment 15737956 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

Knicks are "calling teams left and right" trying to move Burks, and making calls on Noel/Walker and feels they would be willing to attach picks to move them

Ah yes. The Knicks FO trying to rectify their blunders. Leon Rose follows a long line of Knicks execs who have many instances of buyers remorse.

In comment 15737956 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

Knicks are "calling teams left and right" trying to move Burks, and making calls on Noel/Walker and feels they would be willing to attach picks to move them

Moving all 3 and take nothing back would put them at 30 million depending on if they trade up and what they give up..

In comment 15737967 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

In comment 15737965 Strahan91 said: Quote: Jonathan Givony: “I don’t think the Wizards are gonna put their 10th pick in a Brogdon trade, [but] the Knicks are looking very hard at putting in pick 11” Awful.

Hopefully this is coming from the Pacers side trying to get teams to ante up. Didn't sound like Begley thought they'd trade 11 for Brogdon and I'm sure his sources are with NY

In comment 15737965 Strahan91 said:

Quote:

Jonathan Givony: “I don’t think the Wizards are gonna put their 10th pick in a Brogdon trade, [but] the Knicks are looking very hard at putting in pick 11”

If the Knicks trade 11 for Brogdon, I'm sure Indiana is taking back some of the unwanted players from the Knicks, that being said, I'm a hard pass on Brogdon due to his injuries, contract and age.

needs to hire more FO people so they can make a deal. It’s incredible how incompetent they are. They have plenty of assets where they should be able to make trades to improve this team. Same thing every year…all rumors.

In comment 15737971 Pete44 said:

Quote:

In comment 15737965 Strahan91 said: Quote: Jonathan Givony: “I don’t think the Wizards are gonna put their 10th pick in a Brogdon trade, [but] the Knicks are looking very hard at putting in pick 11” If the Knicks trade 11 for Brogdon, I'm sure Indiana is taking back some of the unwanted players from the Knicks, that being said, I'm a hard pass on Brogdon due to his injuries, contract and age.

I wouldn't do that. None of those contracts are so bad that it's worth giving up a lottery pick for Brogdon imo. Only way I do that is if Duarte is in the deal with the Knicks adding in another asset. Highly unlikely he'd be part of the deal, but I did see Givony said that the Kings were doing their homework on him (assuming as part of a deal for 4) so maybe he's not totally off limits.

Fred Katz
@FredKatz
·
47s
Clearing this up: “Net neutral” means he’s being paid fairly. Trading Burks would not get you back a significant asset and it would not take attaching a significant asset to trade him. It’s a fair contract.

In comment 15737973 five5 said:

Quote:

needs to hire more FO people so they can make a deal. It’s incredible how incompetent they are. They have plenty of assets where they should be able to make trades to improve this team. Same thing every year…all rumors.

did you expect them to make a deal up to 4 now?

In comment 15737978 nygiants16 said:

Quote:

Fred Katz @FredKatz · 47s Clearing this up: “Net neutral” means he’s being paid fairly. Trading Burks would not get you back a significant asset and it would not take attaching a significant asset to trade him. It’s a fair contract.

". I think they'd like to get off of Nerlens Noel's expiring contract, too, and they're obviously attempting to move on from Kemba Walker. I think they're into Jalen Brunson. They wouldn't be making these calls if they weren't at least somewhat open to attaching the picks they know it would take to dump someone like Noel."

going to get a perfect player at 11. The more I hear about Griffin, the more it makes me concerned. If they decide to go in this direction I'm sure they think his defensive deficiencies are correctable.

confirms the Brogdon talks, but doesn't know how serious they are.

At 11 and are doing everything they can to get out of the pick.
In this scenario would you like a Kevin Knox/Frank Ntilikina type player or Brogdon?
Before you kill me I know there are players late in this draft that will become stars but the Knicks might feel it's a reach and can get someone to help them now also I don't want Brogdon with his injury history.

i dont think Brunson is their target, i think they are going after Irving to pair with Ivey and Rj..

I think they are seriously ready to go all in

WTF? Did I read that right?

They are in too deep and will have to do whatever it takes to keep him. They have a very short window and without a motivated Kyrie, all of that capital that they used to get these guys would be wasted. Simmons and KD are not going to win anything.

I think when all is said and done, Kyrie will be back with the Nets for a few more years.

In comment 15737995 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:

Quote:

WTF? Did I read that right?

Not going to happen, if it were true it would be done..

Feels like the Pacers are leaking it to get the Wizards to ante up

In comment 15737994 nygiants16 said:

Quote:

i dont think Brunson is their target, i think they are going after Irving to pair with Ivey and Rj.. I think they are seriously ready to go all in

that doesn't make any sense.

In comment 15738001 nygiants16 said:

Quote:

In comment 15737995 SFGFNCGiantsFan said: Quote: WTF? Did I read that right? Not going to happen, if it were true it would be done.. Feels like the Pacers are leaking it to get the Wizards to ante up

I hope you're right but both can be true - the Knicks could be offering 11 for Brogdon and it's not done yet because the Pacers are holding out for 10 from Washington

In comment 15737997 Kmed6000 said:

Quote:

They are in too deep and will have to do whatever it takes to keep him. They have a very short window and without a motivated Kyrie, all of that capital that they used to get these guys would be wasted. Simmons and KD are not going to win anything. I think when all is said and done, Kyrie will be back with the Nets for a few more years.

Agreed. They've married themselves to KD /Kyrie for the near future. They just have to bank on Kyrie and Simmons actually showing up for a complete playoff run one of these next few years.

In comment 15738006 Strahan91 said:

Quote:

In comment 15738001 nygiants16 said: Quote: In comment 15737995 SFGFNCGiantsFan said: Quote: WTF? Did I read that right? Not going to happen, if it were true it would be done.. Feels like the Pacers are leaking it to get the Wizards to ante up I hope you're right but both can be true - the Knicks could be offering 11 for Brogdon and it's not done yet because the Pacers are holding out for 10 from Washington

That is true, i am trying to be optimistic haha

NBACentral
@TheNBACentral
·
15s
There are teams rooting for Kyrie Irving to opt-out and walk away from the Nets, believing it would give them a chance to cobble together trade packages to acquire Kevin Durant 👀, per @wojespn

Said we have enough for Robinson and can clear $25m by stretching Kemba waive the old man (wink sign him back later to fill roster) I believe it was trade Noel and move pick #11 to Memphis at 20 (ish) and they take Fournier.

Jonathan Macri
@JCMacriNBA
·
33s
“If the Knicks fail to acquire Brunson in free agency and lose out on a trade for Indiana Pacers guard Malcolm Brogdon, they would probably take a look at the possibility of Irving.”

Also notes Knicks working to clear cap space and DAL maybe needing to max Brunson to keep him.
Quote Tweet
Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn
· 5m
For ESPN+ on Kyrie Irving, Kevin Durant and sum of all Brooklyn Nets' fears: https://es.pn/3OcBWa0

“As possible destinations go, the New York Knicks are working to clear salary-cap space, preparing to recruit Dallas Mavericks free-agent guard Jalen Brunson, sources say. He wanted a four-year, $55 million extension last offseason, but the Mavericks never made an offer, sources say. Because of the risk of losing Brunson for nothing to the Knicks, where his former agent, Leon Rose, is the president of basketball operations, and his father, Rick, is a newly hired assistant coach, it could take nearly a max contract for the Mavericks to keep him.

If the Knicks fail to acquire Brunson in free agency and lose out on a trade for Indiana Pacers guard Malcolm Brogdon, they would probably take a look at the possibility of Irving -- if he was still available.”

In comment 15738006 Strahan91 said:

Quote:

In comment 15738001 nygiants16 said: Quote: In comment 15737995 SFGFNCGiantsFan said: Quote: WTF? Did I read that right? Not going to happen, if it were true it would be done.. Feels like the Pacers are leaking it to get the Wizards to ante up I hope you're right but both can be true - the Knicks could be offering 11 for Brogdon and it's not done yet because the Pacers are holding out for 10 from Washington

Trading the 11th pick for an injury prone Brogdon would beyond dumb, but hey it's the Knicks sadly.

but AEW wrestler Eddie Kingston lol

Eddie Kingston: "Man when I first met Tony Khan and had a meeting with him and then we talked a little bit after I asked him. I said, 'you ain't gonna buy the Knicks, man?' He just looked at me like, no! I said,you sure? you can buy the Knicks and then make me the GM right? No?"

How can they acquire Brunson, Ivey and Irving? It would be wild if they did, but I don't think they have enough quality assets to get Ivey and then Irving in a sign and trade.

In comment 15738026 PhilSimms15 said:

Quote:

How can they acquire Brunson, Ivey and Irving? It would be wild if they did, but I don't think they have enough quality assets to get Ivey and then Irving in a sign and trade.

I doubt they offer enough to even get Ivey let alone anyway else.

In comment 15738014 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

NBACentral @TheNBACentral · 15s There are teams rooting for Kyrie Irving to opt-out and walk away from the Nets, believing it would give them a chance to cobble together trade packages to acquire Kevin Durant 👀, per @wojespn

It's going to be kind of funny when the tweet comes out that Nets signed Irving to a max extension and all this bargaining in the media has just made millions of fans refresh their twitter timelines every two seconds.

In comment 15738026 PhilSimms15 said:

Quote:

How can they acquire Brunson, Ivey and Irving? It would be wild if they did, but I don't think they have enough quality assets to get Ivey and then Irving in a sign and trade.

They wouodnt need to do a sign and trade

In comment 15738029 Essex said:

Quote:

In comment 15738014 DanMetroMan said: Quote: NBACentral @TheNBACentral · 15s There are teams rooting for Kyrie Irving to opt-out and walk away from the Nets, believing it would give them a chance to cobble together trade packages to acquire Kevin Durant 👀, per @wojespn It's going to be kind of funny when the tweet comes out that Nets signed Irving to a max extension and all this bargaining in the media has just made millions of fans refresh their twitter timelines every two seconds.

That's the same thing that happens every offseason with several different big names. This is no different

with "the same old Knicks" or "Knicks type move" nonsense

>> this front office regime hasn't hit any home runs but also hasn't made any short-sighted moves; they've merely acquired assets and made some solid draft picks. Do they deserve an A+? No, but let's see them make a Isiah Thomas type move before we paint that picture!!

why no talk at making a run at Lavine or Beal? I get they arent PG's but its not like we are set at the 2 either (assuming RJ is the 3)

In comment 15738037 NYG22 said:

Quote:

with "the same old Knicks" or "Knicks type move" nonsense >> this front office regime hasn't hit any home runs but also hasn't made any short-sighted moves; they've merely acquired assets and made some solid draft picks. Do they deserve an A+? No, but let's see them make a Isiah Thomas type move before we paint that picture!!

Good post. I was thinking the same thing. They've obviously made a competitive offer to Sacramento for the fourth pick, and they obviously know where they stand with Brunson. This isn't Isiah offering Kobe the mid-level exception.

“If the Knicks fail to acquire Brunson in free agency and lose out on a trade for Indiana Pacers guard Malcolm Brogdon, they would probably take a look at the possibility of Irving.”

In comment 15738026 PhilSimms15 said:

Quote:

How can they acquire Brunson, Ivey and Irving? It would be wild if they did, but I don't think they have enough quality assets to get Ivey and then Irving in a sign and trade.

Nobody has said they'd acquire ALL THREE. It would likely be one of those three with Irving being an extreme longshot.

Also, I find it hard to believe that it would be Brogdon for pick 11. More likely its something like: 11 + junk (Randle, Burks, Noel) for Brogden. In other words, NYK would free up enough $$ to offer Brunson 4*$25mm, then you look like this:

C: Mitch, Sims
PF: Obi
Wings: RJB, Fournier, Reddish, Grimes
Lead guards: Brunson, Brogden, IQ (all three can also play off ball), Rose

This probably leads to a Fournier for BIG trade.

In comment 15738037 NYG22 said:

Quote:

with "the same old Knicks" or "Knicks type move" nonsense >> this front office regime hasn't hit any home runs but also hasn't made any short-sighted moves; they've merely acquired assets and made some solid draft picks. Do they deserve an A+? No, but let's see them make a Isiah Thomas type move before we paint that picture!!

Agreed would be very surprised if they traded 11 straight up for Brogdon.

In comment 15738042 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

“If the Knicks fail to acquire Brunson in free agency and lose out on a trade for Indiana Pacers guard Malcolm Brogdon, they would probably take a look at the possibility of Irving.”

Supposedly, if the Nets don't give Irving what he wants, he will head to the Lakers for their MLE. He is a strange guy and feels he owes Lebron. I don't think the Knicks are really on his radar and never were. All that being said, I'm sure, he and the Nets will come to some sort of compromise as they both have a lot to lose by not working it out. I'm sure the Nets don't want KD demanding a trade.

“In previous offseasons, rival agents and players would tell you of Durant’s eagerness in talking to potential free agents,” Wojnarowski wrote. “So far, that hasn’t been the case with him, sources say. Outside of [Kyrie] Irving, the Nets’ most important free agent is guard Patty Mills, who still hasn’t decided on whether to exercise his $7.2 million player option. Around the Irving drama, the Nets’ environment has made it harder to keep and court role players, sources say.”

.

In comment 15738045 Pete44 said:

Quote:

In comment 15738042 DanMetroMan said: Quote: “If the Knicks fail to acquire Brunson in free agency and lose out on a trade for Indiana Pacers guard Malcolm Brogdon, they would probably take a look at the possibility of Irving.” Supposedly, if the Nets don't give Irving what he wants, he will head to the Lakers for their MLE. He is a strange guy and feels he owes Lebron. I don't think the Knicks are really on his radar and never were. All that being said, I'm sure, he and the Nets will come to some sort of compromise as they both have a lot to lose by not working it out. I'm sure the Nets don't want KD demanding a trade.

Good, his head isn't screwed in right.

to max deal. Usually that is how this works because the financial incentive is just too much to give up on an opt out. But, Kyrie being Kyrie is definitely a wild card here. It would not shock me if he did something contrary to his best financial interests.

Jalen Duren at 11

12. Jalen Duren | 6-11 freshman | C | Memphis

How much do you value having a decent center with some upside? I like Duren quite a bit but struggled with where to place him on my board because he’s a one-position player at the least valuable position, and chances are he’ll never stretch his game out to the 3-point line.

I’m extremely confident Duren can be a rotation center for a decade; how far beyond that he can get is a very open question. Is there enough rim running and shot blocking to be a legit starter? You wouldn’t trade a lottery pick for a backup five, so the answer to this has to at least be a “maybe” to rank him here.

Nonetheless, Duren packs some real positives. He was an impactful college player even as a young freshman, he has a 7-5 wingspan and a solid enough frame to be a plus defender and rim-runner, and he made some notably good passes for a player of this ilk. He disappointed a bit as a rim protector, however; 3.9 blocks per 100 in the American Conference is fine but not exactly Holmgren territory, and he doesn’t explode off the floor on shot challenges the way you might like from an interior presence.

Memphis also switched him a lot and was clearly very comfortable with him defending on the perimeter, even against very small guards. I’d describe his feet as more “good” than “great;” he can be a little slow at times and at others had to give up excessive cushion to feel like he could keep in front. The biggest barrier for him is just that the bar for “switchable big” in the NBA is getting so darned high, especially as we get deeper into the postseason. He’s good enough to get there though.

The Knicks have been unwilling to include the No. 11 pick in a trade for Malcolm Brogdon, per
@WindhorstESPN
.

Knicks have been unwilling to put the 11th pick in offers for Brogdon

Knicks want to trade back into teens and use that pick for Brogdon while getting another asset

In comment 15738109 nygiants16 said:

Quote:

Knicks have been unwilling to put the 11th pick in offers for Brogdon

This FO is a bit more methodical than others and definitely values draft capital. I never believed #11 was in play for Brogdon unless they were unloading unwanted players or getting a future #1. Brogdon should be considered a negative asset right now.

In comment 15738045 Pete44 said:

Quote:

In comment 15738042 DanMetroMan said: Quote: “If the Knicks fail to acquire Brunson in free agency and lose out on a trade for Indiana Pacers guard Malcolm Brogdon, they would probably take a look at the possibility of Irving.” Supposedly, if the Nets don't give Irving what he wants, he will head to the Lakers for their MLE. He is a strange guy and feels he owes Lebron. I don't think the Knicks are really on his radar and never were. All that being said, I'm sure, he and the Nets will come to some sort of compromise as they both have a lot to lose by not working it out. I'm sure the Nets don't want KD demanding a trade.

Where are you getting that Kyrie stuff from. Honestly haven’t followed the drama too in depth but that whole “owing LeBron/MLE” stuff sounds crazy even for Kyrie.

sounds like a disappointing choice at 11. Upside to be a good but not great defensive 5 with limited offensive game? So lesser Mitch? I'd roll the dice on Eason over that kind of upside.

Jake Fischer
@JakeLFischer
·
16s
One thing that is certain: the Atlanta Hawks, sources say, are operating with the goal of trading John Collins before Thursday night gets underway.

In comment 15738111 five5 said:

Quote:

Knicks want to trade back into teens and use that pick for Brogdon while getting another asset

Don't see much of an "asset" coming to the Knicks dropping down in this draft, once you get past the top 8 or so these guys are all viewed "similarly", I'd be very surprised to see a team give up anything of note to move from say 15 to 11 this year.

but struggle to see a fit with the Knicks.

I wonder if a three team trade with CHA and IND could work given CHA supposedly will trade one of its two firsts to get off of Hayward.

CHA gets Kemba and Noel (and saves $12m in salary this year and $30m next year)
IND gets Burks, Fournier, and a CHA first this year
NYK gets Hayward and Brogdon (consolidation trade, assuming they know via backchannels Brunson is not coming).

In comment 15738115 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

sounds like a disappointing choice at 11. Upside to be a good but not great defensive 5 with limited offensive game? So lesser Mitch? I'd roll the dice on Eason over that kind of upside.

I think Hollinger is underselling his ability to block shots and finish in the paint. I think he'll wind up being similar to Mitch. Ceilings are similar but I don't think we'll ever see Mitch reach his given how little he's improved since he came into the league. If they're going to move on from Mitch then Duren could fit that role well.

With that said, I'm not all that interested in using a lottery pick on a traditional center. I'd much rather roll the dice on a wing like Griffin as far as asset maximization goes.

The Knicks are more likely to re-sign Mitchell Robinson than draft a big at No. 11, per
@JeremyWoo
.

view of Duran isn't far different than Hollinger's FWIW

"Duren has some of the best physical tools in the draft, with a chiseled frame, long arms and a strong base that should make him a quality rebounder and play-finisher. He can be a little bit slow getting off the floor, and scouts have always held concerns about his motor, but he is also extremely young and has a bit of untapped skill upside as a passer (and hopefully as a shooter). Duren can otherwise be too reliant on bullying defenders in lieu of skill. He’s an excellent rebounder who also offers a defensive presence in changing shots, and there’s a pretty good chance he winds up as a starting-caliber player. Some patience will be necessary here, and as a traditional center, he fits a devalued archetype. Many teams suspect he’s not quite as tall as his listed 6' 11" (he didn’t measure at the combine). But if Duren’s effort level continues to tick upward as he matures, he has a solid enough set of strengths to return nice value."

Thibs loves Johnny Davis and the org loves the kid from Ohio St. Look out one of those 2 guys. Davis could be the target if they move to #7.

In comment 15738126 Pete44 said:

Quote:

Thibs loves Johnny Davis and the org loves the kid from Ohio St. Look out one of those 2 guys. Davis could be the target if they move to #7.

It's possible Davis falls to 11 (unlikely but possible). Woo has him 9, Hollinger 29 (acknowledging he likes him less than some other people too)

In comment 15738115 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

sounds like a disappointing choice at 11. Upside to be a good but not great defensive 5 with limited offensive game? So lesser Mitch? I'd roll the dice on Eason over that kind of upside.

In my opinion, he's being way underrated. I said elsewhere, he reminds me of the earliest (Houston Cougar) days that we saw Hakeem Olajuwan. Duren is 6'10" 250, has a 7'5" WS. His speed and hops are as good as it gets for a BIG. Furthermore, his balance, hands and coordination are all top notch too.

Would I dare predict he will have Dream's all time great career? No, but I do believe he'll be one of the best players in this draft.

As far as Mitch Robinson comp, Duren has much better hands and coordination to develop an offensive game. He already shows glimpses as a passer/shooter.

Quote:

Duren is a rim-running, shot-swatting big man — albeit one with good upside to be a starter because of how big, long, strong and athletic he is. He catches the ball well. He is explosive athletically and finishes above the rim. He has good shot-blocking instincts from the weak side and has the frame to turn into a primary rim protector with some work. The big question with Duren is, “How high do you draft someone whose game is relatively limited?” The swing skill for Duren is his perimeter defense. If he can prove to be reliable enough to stay on the court in space and not get beaten by opposing guards, he can be a top-10 center in the NBA. I brought up DeAndre Jordan earlier, and a lot of outcomes end with Duren being somewhat like peak Jordan. The game has changed enough to where I don’t think prime Jordan would top out as an All-NBA player in the 2020s and 2030s, but he can still be impactful through his sheer athleticism and strength. It took Jordan a few years to become a quality starter, and I can see it taking some time for Duren too. Long term, Duren needs to be able to stay on the floor in the biggest moments. I think he has potential if he can get with a coaching staff that can fix some of his minor, experience-based issues on defense, but it’s not a sure thing. Fit will be very important for him. Teams that think he’ll be able to do that will likely see him as a back-half-of-the-lottery guy. Teams that don’t will see him more as a mid-first-rounder.

Happy to share summary of other players if anyone's interested

In comment 15738128 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

In comment 15738126 Pete44 said: Quote: Thibs loves Johnny Davis and the org loves the kid from Ohio St. Look out one of those 2 guys. Davis could be the target if they move to #7. It's possible Davis falls to 11 (unlikely but possible). Woo has him 9, Hollinger 29 (acknowledging he likes him less than some other people too)

Most of the mocks have him going to the Wizards at 10, and I saw one that had him to SA at 9. Seems like he gets into our range but doesn't quite fall to us. I like him. I think he's a more polished and better all around player than most of the other guy people are talking about at our spot currently.

In comment 15738133 Strahan91 said:

Quote:

Quote: Duren is a rim-running, shot-swatting big man — albeit one with good upside to be a starter because of how big, long, strong and athletic he is. He catches the ball well. He is explosive athletically and finishes above the rim. He has good shot-blocking instincts from the weak side and has the frame to turn into a primary rim protector with some work. The big question with Duren is, “How high do you draft someone whose game is relatively limited?” The swing skill for Duren is his perimeter defense. If he can prove to be reliable enough to stay on the court in space and not get beaten by opposing guards, he can be a top-10 center in the NBA. I brought up DeAndre Jordan earlier, and a lot of outcomes end with Duren being somewhat like peak Jordan. The game has changed enough to where I don’t think prime Jordan would top out as an All-NBA player in the 2020s and 2030s, but he can still be impactful through his sheer athleticism and strength. It took Jordan a few years to become a quality starter, and I can see it taking some time for Duren too. Long term, Duren needs to be able to stay on the floor in the biggest moments. I think he has potential if he can get with a coaching staff that can fix some of his minor, experience-based issues on defense, but it’s not a sure thing. Fit will be very important for him. Teams that think he’ll be able to do that will likely see him as a back-half-of-the-lottery guy. Teams that don’t will see him more as a mid-first-rounder. Happy to share summary of other players if anyone's interested

Reads again like a Mitch-replacement without a *likely* ceiling much higher than current Mitch. Worth remembering if Mitch plays college ball as a freshman he's likely a lotto pick himself.

In comment 15738126 Pete44 said:

Quote:

Thibs loves Johnny Davis and the org loves the kid from Ohio St. Look out one of those 2 guys. Davis could be the target if they move to #7.

Inconsistent shooter and a so-so athlete?


BRING HIM ON!

not to say Duren "sucks" not at all, it's just a disappointing outcome on a talent level to let Mitch walk, to replace him with a very young player who may eventually be a similar player. I understand the cap considerations etc but meh.

leaning toward the upside of Eason at 11 (assuming nobody shocking falls).

He's going to be a damn good defender on and off the ball and he can already pass very well. Duren probably has Capela-type upside. I would easily take him over Davis and Branham.

has 0 career 3's in his career and 53% from the FT line, strange comparison "if he develops a perimeter shot" no?

In comment 15738147 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

has 0 career 3's in his career and 53% from the FT line, strange comparison "if he develops a perimeter shot" no?

Meant to say that even if he doesn't develop a perimeter game, he still has Capela-type of upside because of his defensive and passing abilities.

career 10% shooter 10-16 feet, obviously he's a good player but he has ZERO perimeter game.

This was the talk around Mitch for years. Videos of him shooting 3's in practice etc.
If they haven't done it yet it won't happen and you can't draft on it

In comment 15738148 Anakim said:

Quote:

In comment 15738147 DanMetroMan said: Quote: has 0 career 3's in his career and 53% from the FT line, strange comparison "if he develops a perimeter shot" no? Meant to say that even if he doesn't develop a perimeter game, he still has Capela-type of upside because of his defensive and passing abilities.

Capela has unusually quick feet for his size, and that was his reputation pre-draft. An absurd athlete with limited "skills".


"His end-to-end mobility and condor-like wingspan make him one of the best international big men in the 2014 crop, as he covers a ton of ground horizontally and vertically."


Hollinger on Duren-
"’d describe his feet as more “good” than “great;” he can be a little slow at times and at others had to give up excessive cushion to feel like he could keep in front. The biggest barrier for him is just that the bar for “switchable big” in the NBA is getting so darned high, especially as we get deeper into the postseason. He’s good enough to get there though."

In comment 15738152 larryflower37 said:

Quote:

This was the talk around Mitch for years. Videos of him shooting 3's in practice etc. If they haven't done it yet it won't happen and you can't draft on it

True, but there are exceptions. Al Horford and Boogie come to mind. Maybe Blake Griffin too, but I don't remember how he shot in Oklahoma.

As he is right now, Duren is really good. If he can develop a perimeter shot, he'll be really fucking good.

NBACentral
@TheNBACentral
·
1m
There are credible rumblings in circulation that Kyrie Irving has had some recent contact with LeBron James to presumably discuss a potential reunion, per @TheSteinLine

Miami is believed to have some level of interest in joining the chase for Kyrie Irving, per @TheSteinLine

In comment 15738160 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

NBACentral @TheNBACentral · 1m There are credible rumblings in circulation that Kyrie Irving has had some recent contact with LeBron James to presumably discuss a potential reunion, per @TheSteinLine

Good. Keep him away from us.

would be hilarious.

What could go wrong?

In comment 15738137 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

Reads again like a Mitch-replacement without a *likely* ceiling much higher than current Mitch. Worth remembering if Mitch plays college ball as a freshman he's likely a lotto pick himself.

I think Mitch's ceiling is limited by his intelligence or rather, lack thereof

In comment 15738168 Strahan91 said:

Quote:

In comment 15738137 DanMetroMan said: Quote: Reads again like a Mitch-replacement without a *likely* ceiling much higher than current Mitch. Worth remembering if Mitch plays college ball as a freshman he's likely a lotto pick himself. I think Mitch's ceiling is limited by his intelligence or rather, lack thereof

In fairness (again I'm not "against" Duren) but his motor and instincts have been questioned as well, not sure about his "intelligence"

but unless Kyrie signs for nothing, which I was told is a possibility, who do the Lakers have to trade to the Nets for Kyrie besides AD? I guess it is the Lakers and Lebron, so all of the sudden the market value of their players will skyrocket.

I fully believe this is just media noise.

Also, give me Tari Eason. That LSU program was a mess. He might have another gear that we haven't seen yet.

In comment 15738179 Pete44 said:

Quote:

but unless Kyrie signs for nothing, which I was told is a possibility, who do the Lakers have to trade to the Nets for Kyrie besides AD? I guess it is the Lakers and Lebron, so all of the sudden the market value of their players will skyrocket.

The threat is he signs for the MLE I believe. While it sounds incredibly unlikely, this is Kyrie we're talking about. Not exactly a guy whose next move is easy to predict. He forfeited millions in earnings last year and I wouldn't put it past him to sign for the MLE just to spite the Nets for not giving him a max.

and Tim MacMahon mentioned that Wall will probably get bought out this year and the teams he's heard about signing him are the LA teams and the Knicks.

Also mentioned that he was pretty sure Brunson wasn't leaving Dallas.

unless it's a vet min deal after the Kemba disaster and with Rose on the team.

I mean every single possible trade/free agent/buyout target and about 20 different draft prospects throughout the first round.

Evan Sidery
@esidery
The Knicks are expected to re-sign Mitchell Robinson, per @TheSteinLine
.

(I'm unclear if this is this Sidery guy simply repeating what Stein said the other day as "new")

in a name not even mentioned yet... Hard pass on John Wall. He has not played in years and could not shoot then.

I do believe they want Ivey. AJ called that months ago, but they are not going to leave themselves without assets to get him as they still want the next available star.

I have said it all along, they will stay at 11 or trade down or trade completely out of the draft for a 2023 pick, if they can.

Wall is 32 in December and has played 72 games since... 2017, 40 in the last 36 months... yeah, no.

In comment 15738222 Pete44 said:

Quote:

in a name not even mentioned yet... Hard pass on John Wall. He has not played in years and could not shoot then. I do believe they want Ivey. AJ called that months ago, but they are not going to leave themselves without assets to get him as they still want the next available star. I have said it all along, they will stay at 11 or trade down or trade completely out of the draft for a 2023 pick, if they can.

Staying at 11 is the smart play, rather than making a dumb fallback option like trading it for Brogdon.

Evan Sidery
@esidery
·
50s
The Knicks will indeed become a legitimate threat to sign Jalen Brunson from the Mavericks if they can create the necessary cap space, per
@TheSteinLine
.

New York is trying to trade Alec Burks, Kemba Walker and Nerlens Noel to shed salary for Brunson.

In comment 15738229 Strahan91 said:

Quote:

Evan Sidery @esidery · 50s The Knicks will indeed become a legitimate threat to sign Jalen Brunson from the Mavericks if they can create the necessary cap space, per @TheSteinLine . New York is trying to trade Alec Burks, Kemba Walker and Nerlens Noel to shed salary for Brunson.

Good luck with trying to clear the space without attaching draft picks.

the same player?

For me the two guys outside of Ivey that make the most sense are Dyson Daniels and Shaeden Sharpe.

The first for his playmaking, defense, and length, and the second for potential upside.

I think we can get either at #7. Those would be my targets. Duran? Davis? are duplications.

In comment 15738232 RAIN said:

Quote:

the same player? For me the two guys outside of Ivey that make the most sense are Dyson Daniels and Shaeden Sharpe. The first for his playmaking, defense, and length, and the second for potential upside. I think we can get either at #7. Those would be my targets. Duran? Davis? are duplications.

How are the Knicks getting to 7?

makes me question the MLE stuff.

I know Kyrie is very much an "individual", but those in NBPA leadership typically feel like they have a responsibility to sign for as much as possible for leverage purposes in future negotiations with the NBA. The theory goes, if they take a big pay cut then the NBA owners can kind of point out "Do you guys really need all that money if you can take a big pay cut like that?" CP3 might have cost himself a ring due to thinking like this as the NBPA President.

On the otherhand, wasn't Kyrie the guy in the Bubble who brought up "We should create our own league!" during the discussions after all the civil unrest due to the Jacob Blake shooting iirc.

With all due respect, that idea obviously doesn't make sense financially and I'm sure Kyrie realized him and everyone else would need to take a significant pay cut to make that happen. So maybe he doesn't care about the money that much?

So all that being said... I don't know what the hell he's thinking LOL. Most NBPA guys care about getting as paid as possible, but Kyrie clearly isn't "most guys".

I agree totally. 2 guys that aren’t elite athletes who struggle to get their own shot off. Give me Eason or Duren. Players with some upside.

want to eat crow here but the more I read the more I feel like the Pacers or CAA are pushing the Brogdon stuff. I'm seeing reports the Wizards would be willing to part with 10 (sound familiar?) hard to believe the Pacers wouldn't run to accept that.

In comment 15738264 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

want to eat crow here but the more I read the more I feel like the Pacers or CAA are pushing the Brogdon stuff. I'm seeing reports the Wizards would be willing to part with 10 (sound familiar?) hard to believe the Pacers wouldn't run to accept that.

Givony specifically really seems to be holding water for Indiana. At one point on Lowe's podcast he brought up 11 AND Obi for Brogdon

and Brogdon on the same team, what could ever go wrong? lol

Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn
·
38s
Detroit has traded Jerami Grant to Portland for 2025 first-round pick via Milwaukee, sources tell ESPN.

#1 Awesome trade for @trailblazers complete no-brainer at that price #2 The dream/fantasy of Randle to Portland is officially dead

no brainer

Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn
·
37s
Detroit swaps 2022 second-round picks -- getting 36 for 46 -- with Portland, too. Denver gets a 2025 second-round pick back from Portland, and Portland sends the most favorable 2026 second-round pick between Portland and New Orleans to Detroit, sources said.

Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn
·
26s
Replying to
@wojespn
The 2025 first-round pick via Milwaukee is protected Nos. 1-4, sources said. Detroit sends Grant into a $21M trade exception, and Pistons now have $43 million in salary cap space for free agency.

should move #7 for a good proven vet at this point

Detroit has a nice opportunity to make a leap next season with the fifth pick and some nice cap space.

.

for the past couple of years I'm surprised that's all they got. There was talk that Sacramento wanted Grant + 5 for 4 so that keeps the Ivey dream alive (for now)

In comment 15738271 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

#1 Awesome trade for @trailblazers complete no-brainer at that price #2 The dream/fantasy of Randle to Portland is officially dead

Doesn't seem like the Knicks are interested in moving Randle much to our collective chagrin

But what is Portland doing? Reloading? Rebuilding?

In comment 15738276 bceagle05 said:

Quote:

.

I have a feeling they're going to give Bridges a max offer sheet with reports that Charlotte is hesitant to match. Would be a nice fit there with Cade

In comment 15738281 Strahan91 said:

Quote:

In comment 15738271 DanMetroMan said: Quote: #1 Awesome trade for @trailblazers complete no-brainer at that price #2 The dream/fantasy of Randle to Portland is officially dead Doesn't seem like the Knicks are interested in moving Randle much to our collective chagrin

This really doesn't make any sense to me.

How can they possibly keep him when he was so lousy on and off the court last year ?

On top of that, the young guys play better playing at a faster pace while he likes to hold the ball and slow the game down putting the offense at a standstill .

Last but most important, He completely blocks OBI development who will only get 13 minutes a night if Randle is still here.

The most important issue is getting rid of Randle and everything else should be secondary

but a bigger role in Detroit instead of re-signing with Denver?

In comment 15738294 Anakim said:

Quote:

but a bigger role in Detroit instead of re-signing with Denver?

He was restricted, Denver wanted to match but he asked them not to so he can have a bigger role in detroit

In comment 15738295 nygiants16 said:

Quote:

In comment 15738294 Anakim said: Quote: but a bigger role in Detroit instead of re-signing with Denver? He was restricted, Denver wanted to match but he asked them not to so he can have a bigger role in detroit

Gotcha. Thanks.

he left a winning Denver team for a dumpster fire in Detroit.

Ivey Update:

Begley thinks that will come down to if the #Knicks are willing to let go of either IQ, Obi, or Grimes with multiple picks.

I wouldn’t mind Russell or Wall for big money for one year if we get rid of Randle and Fournier who has multiple years. (Not sure they have an exception though) then that team could use the money on a needed player for this year and our cap is wide open for next year (which we need for RJB max). If we don’t plan on giving him a max then we should use him now in a deal. I’ve heard nothing on that subject. (I’m not saying I want to move him don’t mistake me).

Obi.

In comment 15738307 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

Ivey Update: Begley thinks that will come down to if the #Knicks are willing to let go of either IQ, Obi, or Grimes with multiple picks.

If its of those 3, give up grimes

In comment 15738307 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

Ivey Update: Begley thinks that will come down to if the #Knicks are willing to let go of either IQ, Obi, or Grimes with multiple picks.

Ehhhhhhh. Might be too steep for my taste. I really would love Ivey, but the price is becoming too outrageous. I'm not even thrilled about trading both first rounders next year.

In comment 15738292 Giantfan21 said:

Quote:

This really doesn't make any sense to me. How can they possibly keep him when he was so lousy on and off the court last year ? On top of that, the young guys play better playing at a faster pace while he likes to hold the ball and slow the game down putting the offense at a standstill . Last but most important, He completely blocks OBI development who will only get 13 minutes a night if Randle is still here. The most important issue is getting rid of Randle and everything else should be secondary

I don't agree with it but my guess is he doesn't have any trade value. If this regime has shown us anything it's that they're all about asset maximization and they're probably hoping he can have a bounce back year rather than attach a pick to move him.

but this is starting to feel like the deadline, lots of rumors and Knicks do nothing..

In comment 15738315 nygiants16 said:

Quote:

In comment 15738307 DanMetroMan said: Quote: Ivey Update: Begley thinks that will come down to if the #Knicks are willing to let go of either IQ, Obi, or Grimes with multiple picks. If its of those 3, give up grimes

Oh yeah, for sure. Grimes is easily the most expendable of the three.

Take it or leave it.


And find a way to rid ourselves of Randle

In comment 15738318 nygiants16 said:

Quote:

but this is starting to feel like the deadline, lots of rumors and Knicks do nothing..

That's the hallmark of the Rose regime thus far

On Williams vs. Duren

Williams. I just think he’s a better basketball player. I love his rim protection. His 2.8 blocks to 2.1 fouls per game speaks to his defensive IQ. Love the way he runs the floor, his lob-finishing, screen-setting, offensive efficiency. No concerns about motor/work ethic w/him

In comment 15738322 Strahan91 said:

Quote:

In comment 15738318 nygiants16 said: Quote: but this is starting to feel like the deadline, lots of rumors and Knicks do nothing.. That's the hallmark of the Rose regime thus far

Yeah i have defended them, saying i will wait until thwir big move, but right now its frustrating..

Cant go into next year with the same exact team

You give up Grimes without a second though. And if they do need to think more about it, UFB.

assuming we stay there.

I liked him whenever I saw Wiscy play.

.
Link - ( New Window )

In comment 15738331 robbieballs2003 said:

Quote:

. Link - ( New Window )

clearly fake

In comment 15738335 Strahan91 said:

Quote:

In comment 15738331 robbieballs2003 said: Quote: . Link - ( New Window ) clearly fake

Lol. Come on. Let us dream.

most likely pick will be Griffin, Branham or Davis fwiw

I don't see a team taking him off our hands.

In comment 15738339 Strahan91 said:

Quote:

most likely pick will be Griffin, Branham or Davis fwiw

But also said he thinks it’s more likely they move up, down or out then stay there

In comment 15738331 robbieballs2003 said:

Quote:

. Link - ( New Window )

Funny, I speculated the other day that Portland may be a good trade partner, but I think trading Randle and 11th for their pick makes more sense for Portland

Quote:

I wonder if Portland would give up their 1st for Randle? steve in ky : 6/20/2022 6:57 pm : link : reply He might be a good fit there and then the Knicks use that pick, the 11th, and a few of their other accumulated picks to trade up for Ivey.

In comment 15738340 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:

Quote:

I don't see a team taking him off our hands.

Fine, then make the best out of it, Get a real PG here, take the playmaming duties and reduce Randles role so he can just be a double-double guy..

and play him and Obi together for 10 to 15 minutes a night ao Obi can get 25 minutss night..

give me Johnny Davis.

But here's the rub: Thibs is still our coach & we know Thibs is stubborn AF & is going to keep sending JR out there @ the expense of Obi. That's why I have no idea why Thibs is going to be the coach this season. It's maddening. I really feel the only way Obi sees huge minutes is if we have a new HC.

In comment 15738347 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:

Quote:

But here's the rub: Thibs is still our coach & we know Thibs is stubborn AF & is going to keep sending JR out there @ the expense of Obi. That's why I have no idea why Thibs is going to be the coach this season. It's maddening. I really feel the only way Obi sees huge minutes is if we have a new HC.

Yeah it still makes no sense to me they didnt play more together, but there were a lot of questionable decisions last year

Draft is about 24 hours out. I think Sactown definitely trades #4 overall. I guess we're just fixin' to find out to who. I think Knicks are definitely a top contender, but I've seen some scenarios where we included Obi to move up to 4 & I sure AF don't want to trade him & keep JR.

In comment 15737209 nygiants16 said:

Quote:

In comment 15737206 AcidTest said: Quote: going to have to give up a ton to get Ivey, especially since the Wizards, Grizzlies, and possibly other teams are also interested. It's a bidding war. I'd inquire, but would likely say no because of the cost. If Ivey is that good then he wouldn't last until four, especially since this isn't a great draft class from what I've read. Everybody needs a PG. The game is a lot more wide open that it was decades ago when teams were desperate for "bigs." First off Ivey is not a PG, he is a combo guard, can play the 1 or 2.. Orlando just drafted Suggs and Cole Anthony..They need a big.. OKC has SGA, they could draft Ivey but most likely get a stretch big to pair with SGA.. Houston just drafted Green and Porter Jr, why would they take Ivey over 1 of the bigs?

Like taking a big over a wing because you already have Clyde Drexler on the roster.

Smith Jr. goes 1 to Magic, Chet to OKC, & Paolo to Houston @ 3. Then possible chaos.

I remember reading a book on MJ where Bobby Knight was quoted as responding to a Blazers executive that they wouldn't take MJ because they had Clyde...'Well, fuck. Play Jordan at center.'

Ivey Update:

The Kings will decide on the clock what offer they accept for Jaden Ivey per Woj.

#Knick

love to clown the Kings here but waiting until the very last second to make a trade is exactly what they should be doing

I agree. Kings are waiting on Godfather offer.

In comment 15738370 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

love to clown the Kings here but waiting until the very last second to make a trade is exactly what they should be doing

It all depends on the outcome. If they choose to play a game of chicken with the pick they may reap more, or possibly less. Can't gauge how good the strategy really is until it plays out.

interesting Obi numbers
Link - ( New Window )

for 4 & Sabonis. Who says no?

HAHAHA.

Smart here. I think they are fine with picking Murray at 4 or trading out. Hopefully we can get a deal in place with Detroit for 5 if they take Murray at 4.

In comment 15738345 nygiants16 said:

Quote:

In comment 15738340 SFGFNCGiantsFan said: Quote: I don't see a team taking him off our hands. Fine, then make the best out of it, Get a real PG here, take the playmaming duties and reduce Randles role so he can just be a double-double guy.. and play him and Obi together for 10 to 15 minutes a night ao Obi can get 25 minutss night..

This. Everyone here is freaking out desperately wanting to dump Randle. How about for once we put him with a competent starting PG who can run an offense and see if we can maximize what he does well and not have the ball in his hands so much

I get the whole 'Let's get a real PG for JR' angle', but the man was a wreck this past season. And I have no idea what happened. As I speculated multiple times in Knicks game threads, I don't know if he had stuff going on in his personal life....but he was a disaster. And his contract is an complete albatross. We gotta move him IMO.

fairness, Randle seemed to force the bully ball/"point forward". He looked like he wanted to be Lebron, I never got the feeling he felt "uncomfortable" in the role, if anything we need to see if he's "comfortable" with a lesser role/less touches.

Chris Haynes
@ChrisBHaynes
·
1m
Portland Trail Blazers are in pursuit of Toronto Raptors forward OG Anunoby with the No. 7 pick in Thursday’s draft in play, league sources tell
@YahooSports
.

In comment 15738384 Stu11 said:

Quote:

In comment 15738345 nygiants16 said: Quote: In comment 15738340 SFGFNCGiantsFan said: Quote: I don't see a team taking him off our hands. Fine, then make the best out of it, Get a real PG here, take the playmaming duties and reduce Randles role so he can just be a double-double guy.. and play him and Obi together for 10 to 15 minutes a night ao Obi can get 25 minutss night.. This. Everyone here is freaking out desperately wanting to dump Randle. How about for once we put him with a competent starting PG who can run an offense and see if we can maximize what he does well and not have the ball in his hands so much

It's not Randle's game. It isn't Thibs' style. Randle should have been moved earlier when some of us were suggesting it. Now his value has plummeted. Randle and Obi cannot succeed under Thibs. It goes against everything he does. We cannot hope for the best case scenario. We have to go with what is true. Worst case scenario should be that Randle starts out here, Thibs does the same shit with his rotation, and we trade him to a team contending. Randle is a mental midget and cannot handle NY.

In comment 15738384 Stu11 said:

Quote:

In comment 15738345 nygiants16 said: Quote: In comment 15738340 SFGFNCGiantsFan said: Quote: I don't see a team taking him off our hands. Fine, then make the best out of it, Get a real PG here, take the playmaming duties and reduce Randles role so he can just be a double-double guy.. and play him and Obi together for 10 to 15 minutes a night ao Obi can get 25 minutss night.. This. Everyone here is freaking out desperately wanting to dump Randle. How about for once we put him with a competent starting PG who can run an offense and see if we can maximize what he does well and not have the ball in his hands so much

My biggest issue is getting Obi minutes..,,This play Randle 35 minutes no matter what whike Obi plays 10 to 15 and thats it no matter what doesnt fly anymore

In comment 15738391 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:

Quote:

I get the whole 'Let's get a real PG for JR' angle', but the man was a wreck this past season. And I have no idea what happened. As I speculated multiple times in Knicks game threads, I don't know if he had stuff going on in his personal life....but he was a disaster. And his contract is an complete albatross. We gotta move him IMO.

Listen I'm fine trading him, and if we bring back a similar crew plus a draft pick I'm not gonna be thrilled. However that contract is NOT an albatross and if we can't trade him I can live with it if we add a quality PG to have the ball in their hands late in the game. Last year was rough, but maybe this year he gets over whatever was the issue personally and regains his 2020-21 form.

In comment 15738379 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:

Quote:

for 4 & Sabonis. Who says no? HAHAHA.

LOL...would be nice be Randle's contract is a no go for Sac.

EXACTLY. As long as Thibs is here & JR is on the roster, Obi isn't seeing significant minutes. It is as simple as that.

'Albatross' might have been too strong of a word, but his contract is definitely a hindrance.

Oh well we'll see how things shake out. I'm losing confidence that this front office can pull anything of consequence off.

and then normal disappointment sets per usual.

8? If we stick @ 11...what time we picking?

In comment 15738413 GFAN52 said:

Quote:

and then normal disappointment sets per usual.

Lol the other only exciting days a year for Knicks fans are the days leading up to the draft and free agency. We entertain ourselves with BS rumors and then reality sets in and we do nothing.

In comment 15738419 Stu11 said:

Quote:

In comment 15738413 GFAN52 said: Quote: and then normal disappointment sets per usual. Lol the other only exciting days a year for Knicks fans are the days leading up to the draft and free agency. We entertain ourselves with BS rumors and then reality sets in and we do nothing.

When you haven't won a championship since 1973, it's the little things that matter lol.

In comment 15738317 Strahan91 said:

Quote:

In comment 15738292 Giantfan21 said: Quote: This really doesn't make any sense to me. How can they possibly keep him when he was so lousy on and off the court last year ? On top of that, the young guys play better playing at a faster pace while he likes to hold the ball and slow the game down putting the offense at a standstill . Last but most important, He completely blocks OBI development who will only get 13 minutes a night if Randle is still here. The most important issue is getting rid of Randle and everything else should be secondary I don't agree with it but my guess is he doesn't have any trade value. If this regime has shown us anything it's that they're all about asset maximization and they're probably hoping he can have a bounce back year rather than attach a pick to move him.

They might be thinking let's try to maximize JR as an asset and then trade him at a later point, but at what cost ?

While they are trying to rehabilitate his value, they are depreciating OBI and Quickley values at the same time (especially OBI) so in the long run nothing is accomplished . This is best case scenario.

Worst case scenario , Randle has another miserable year and now he is a negative asset and it will take multiple attached 1st round picks to dump him.

At least now they can trade him while his deal is neutral and let the young kids free and build around that core and play at a faster pace.

but the Knicks have as good a chance as anyone in this Ivey pursuit - the pick is clearly up for grabs and they want him.

Chris Haynes
@ChrisBHaynes
Portland Trail Blazers are in pursuit of Toronto Raptors forward OG Anunoby with the No. 7 pick in Thursday’s draft in play, league sources tell @YahooSports
.

he’s a tough player to fit on most teams and you don’t know which version you’re going to get.

the pick for a future 2nd rounder, I'm resigned to them picking between Branham and Griffin. Certainly two talented players, I don't know whom I like better though. Griffin seems more vertically explosive while Branham has more lateral quickness. Too bad we already have a bunch of 2/3's on the team.

Ivey is just a pipe dream.

In comment 15738441 bceagle05 said:

Quote:

but the Knicks have as good a chance as anyone in this Ivey pursuit - the pick is clearly up for grabs and they want him.

Yeah i feel like in the end if there is a way to make a deal, i think the Knicks will end up doing it..

But to go all in on Ivey. It's the shot this FO need to take. He has the potential to be a top 10 talent in the league and let's be honest the Knicks have not had anyone with his potential in decades.
RJ has potential to be a very good player but never had the upside of Ivey.
We are not getting a top 10 player to come here so you better grow one, take the shot go all in.

is the player we have to part with along with picks I'm fine with that. Players like him can be found elsewhere. We have to take a shot for a star. They aren't good enough to win a championship, but they aren't bad enough to pick atop the lottery either.

said he heard from a trusted source that the front office told Randle IF he is back it will be in a reduced role..

In comment 15738467 nygiants16 said:

Quote:

said he heard from a trusted source that the front office told Randle IF he is back it will be in a reduced role..

Randle doesn't want to be here. He doesn't want to be here. Let's find a way to cut ties.

to pair either Ivey or Sharpe with Holmgren

Site infected???

and they are loaded with picks. Still don't see the how the Knicks move up for him.

"The Thunder are aggressively trying to trade up from No. 12 with their primary targets being Jaden Ivey and Shaedon Sharpe to pair with Chet Holmgren at No. 2, per @DraftExpress"

He expects a lot of trades in the next 24 hours..

Also said he expects the Knicks to be agressive in clearing space for Brunson..

In comment 15738473 GFAN52 said:

Quote:

and they are loaded with picks. Still don't see the how the Knicks move up for him. "The Thunder are aggressively trying to trade up from No. 12 with their primary targets being Jaden Ivey and Shaedon Sharpe to pair with Chet Holmgren at No. 2, per @DraftExpress"

TF
@ThunderFocus
·
22m
Wanted to clarify, there is a report from
@esidery
quoting Givony about OKC trying to trade up for Sharpe or Ivey.

This isn't new & has been said for weeks in his mocks, really isn't anything happening right now we know of & Woj didn't mention OKC as one of the teams trading up

Jake Fischer
@JakeLFischer
·
1m
Atlanta and San Antonio have discussed a deal that would swap John Collins for Dejounte Murray, sources said. Spurs have told interests teams that moving Murray would require a "Jrue Holiday-like package." More league-wide trade notes
@BR_NBA
:

In comment 15738487 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

Jake Fischer @JakeLFischer · 1m Atlanta and San Antonio have discussed a deal that would swap John Collins for Dejounte Murray, sources said. Spurs have told interests teams that moving Murray would require a "Jrue Holiday-like package." More league-wide trade notes @BR_NBA :

I would gladly give up 3 firsts for Murray

Knicks are not offering 11 for brogdon, its a combo of Burks, noel, Kemba, Fournier and Cam

will land in Indiana in a Brogdon deal watch lol.

In comment 15738493 nygiants16 said:

Quote:

In comment 15738487 DanMetroMan said: Quote: Jake Fischer @JakeLFischer · 1m Atlanta and San Antonio have discussed a deal that would swap John Collins for Dejounte Murray, sources said. Spurs have told interests teams that moving Murray would require a "Jrue Holiday-like package." More league-wide trade notes @BR_NBA : I would gladly give up 3 firsts for Murray

Holiday was two unprotected firsts, one lightly protected first and two pick swaps. That’s a dangerous move for the Knicks (less so for a contending team)

In comment 15738496 Strahan91 said:

Quote:

In comment 15738493 nygiants16 said: Quote: In comment 15738487 DanMetroMan said: Quote: Jake Fischer @JakeLFischer · 1m Atlanta and San Antonio have discussed a deal that would swap John Collins for Dejounte Murray, sources said. Spurs have told interests teams that moving Murray would require a "Jrue Holiday-like package." More league-wide trade notes @BR_NBA : I would gladly give up 3 firsts for Murray Holiday was two unprotected firsts, one lightly protected first and two pick swaps. That’s a dangerous move for the Knicks (less so for a contending team)

Murray is an absolute stud on both ends..

If you can keep Iq, Rj and Obi out if the deal, probably would have to include 1 but id absolutely love to have him over paying Brunson 25 million a year

unless we’re talking about a legit top player. Murray is really good but he’s not Luka Doncic. The Knicks aren’t in a place where they can risk missing out on a guy that could be like Wembanyama.

In comment 15738500 Strahan91 said:

Quote:

unless we’re talking about a legit top player. Murray is really good but he’s not Luka Doncic. The Knicks aren’t in a place where they can risk missing out on a guy that could be like Wembanyama.

I would counter that Murray IS a star PG. About his only weakness is shooting the 3- and he’s vastly better than Rose in that area. Murray is also a solid on-ball defender- lead the league in steals this season. He also had about a 3.5:1 Assist to turnover ratio.

I’d give up a good bit to get that kind of PG with the Knicks.

In comment 15738494 nygiants16 said:

Quote:

Knicks are not offering 11 for brogdon, its a combo of Burks, noel, Kemba, Fournier and Cam

LOL. If Leon Rose can pull off trading a bunch of our trash for Brogdon, that would be awesome.

LFG men! 'I do not know what course others make take, but as for me...give me Ivey or give me death!'

Or play it safe again. Either way today is going to be an interesting day. Hope we get a load of rumors and movement around the league.

Do you guys feel good about Thibs as his HC? I feel from what I am reading that it just isn't a good match. It sounds like Ivey is at his best when pushing the ball.

really understand how the sports books work, but Banchero is now the favorite to go #1

In comment 15738575 robbieballs2003 said:

Quote:

Do you guys feel good about Thibs as his HC? I feel from what I am reading that it just isn't a good match. It sounds like Ivey is at his best when pushing the ball.

So was Derrick Rose, Thibs loves big guards who get downhil and attack the rim, Ivey is actually a perfect fit for him

In comment 15738574 Jan in DC said:

Quote:

Or play it safe again. Either way today is going to be an interesting day. Hope we get a load of rumors and movement around the league.

By all accounts Knicks have been 1 of the more agressive teams in trade talks..so we will see

In comment 15738577 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

really understand how the sports books work, but Banchero is now the favorite to go #1

Either they have intel on something or for some reason a ton of bets started coming in on Banchero

Smith Jr.

Reminiscent of the dramatic overnight and draft day betting shift to Baker Mayfield in 2018.

And that was definitely because of info leaking from Browns.

link - ( New Window )

In comment 15738579 nygiants16 said:

Quote:

In comment 15738575 robbieballs2003 said: Quote: Do you guys feel good about Thibs as his HC? I feel from what I am reading that it just isn't a good match. It sounds like Ivey is at his best when pushing the ball. So was Derrick Rose, Thibs loves big guards who get downhil and attack the rim, Ivey is actually a perfect fit for him

Thibs likes to run, which is probably why his half court offense is so hard to watch lol.

He could have fooled me with playing guys like Randle and Burks a million minutes over the young kids who would run.

In comment 15738595 robbieballs2003 said:

Quote:

He could have fooled me with playing guys like Randle and Burks a million minutes over the young kids who would run.

They talked about pushing pace all year. They just didn't have the players to do it.

Steve Popper
@StevePopper
Getting the sense that the Knicks won't make it up to No. 4. No. 5 remains a longshot but possible. And while I have Griffin in the mock to them if Sharpe falls I think the Knicks are where it stops. Most likely? Dropping back and grabbing a big to replace Noel - and maybe Mitch.

There are similarities to Cole Anthony in the sharpshooting Griffin. He comes from NBA bloodlines, he was a huge recruit and now there are doubts after an underwhelming one year in college. But he’s a big guard who can stretch the floor and, while there are injury concerns, Griffin is one of the youngest players in the draft — he doesn’t turn 19 until late August — and has a considerably high ceiling.

Link - ( New Window )

In comment 15738597 Strahan91 said:

Quote:

Steve Popper @StevePopper Getting the sense that the Knicks won't make it up to No. 4. No. 5 remains a longshot but possible. And while I have Griffin in the mock to them if Sharpe falls I think the Knicks are where it stops. Most likely? Dropping back and grabbing a big to replace Noel - and maybe Mitch.

Posturing, the question is not how close they are now to a deal, the question is when the Kings are on the clock will they give into the Kings demands

Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn
·
1m
As team boards finalize today, the 1-2-3 of the NBA Draft is increasingly firm, per sources: Jabari Smith to Orlando, Chet Holmgren to Oklahoma City and Paolo Banchero to Houston.

In comment 15738605 nygiants16 said:

Quote:

In comment 15738597 Strahan91 said: Quote: Steve Popper @StevePopper Getting the sense that the Knicks won't make it up to No. 4. No. 5 remains a longshot but possible. And while I have Griffin in the mock to them if Sharpe falls I think the Knicks are where it stops. Most likely? Dropping back and grabbing a big to replace Noel - and maybe Mitch. Posturing, the question is not how close they are now to a deal, the question is when the Kings are on the clock will they give into the Kings demands

There are other teams in the hunt for #4, so Sac is in the drivers seat on the bidding.

In comment 15738609 GFAN52 said:

Quote:

In comment 15738605 nygiants16 said: Quote: In comment 15738597 Strahan91 said: Quote: Steve Popper @StevePopper Getting the sense that the Knicks won't make it up to No. 4. No. 5 remains a longshot but possible. And while I have Griffin in the mock to them if Sharpe falls I think the Knicks are where it stops. Most likely? Dropping back and grabbing a big to replace Noel - and maybe Mitch. Posturing, the question is not how close they are now to a deal, the question is when the Kings are on the clock will they give into the Kings demands There are other teams in the hunt for #4, so Sac is in the drivers seat on the bidding.

Of course they are..They are in a good position and know it

Would be an awful pick

In comment 15738520 rich in DC said:

Quote:

In comment 15738500 Strahan91 said: Quote: unless we’re talking about a legit top player. Murray is really good but he’s not Luka Doncic. The Knicks aren’t in a place where they can risk missing out on a guy that could be like Wembanyama. I would counter that Murray IS a star PG. About his only weakness is shooting the 3- and he’s vastly better than Rose in that area. Murray is also a solid on-ball defender- lead the league in steals this season. He also had about a 3.5:1 Assist to turnover ratio. I’d give up a good bit to get that kind of PG with the Knicks.

I'm well aware of how good Murray is but as the #1 option his team won 3 fewer games than the Knicks with one of the best HC's of all time. Maybe I'm just scarred from the IT years but it would remind me of the Marbury deal who at the time was a great player who hadn't won much anywhere he'd been.

Also, what does it say about Murray that Popovich and Buford would be willing to deal him if that is indeed true? I actually doubt he gets moved, I think it's just one of those noisy storylines this time of year. I don't see how John Collins would be interesting enough to them as a centerpiece to deal Murray.

In comment 15738601 GFAN52 said:

Quote:

There are similarities to Cole Anthony in the sharpshooting Griffin. He comes from NBA bloodlines, he was a huge recruit and now there are doubts after an underwhelming one year in college. But he’s a big guard who can stretch the floor and, while there are injury concerns, Griffin is one of the youngest players in the draft — he doesn’t turn 19 until late August — and has a considerably high ceiling. Link - ( New Window )

Quite possibly the worst comparison I’ve ever seen. If AJ Griffin was “underwhelming” in college, then Cole Anthony had the most ignominious 4 months for a high recruit not named Pat Baldwin this century.

In comment 15738596 Heisenberg said:

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In comment 15738595 robbieballs2003 said: Quote: He could have fooled me with playing guys like Randle and Burks a million minutes over the young kids who would run. They talked about pushing pace all year. They just didn't have the players to do it.

I disagree. They had the players to do it and when they were doing it well, they were pulled for players that slowed things down.

who was the second best player on the team? Keldon Johnson? Poeltl? Sorry i just dont love the "guy hasnt wont" argument in the NBA. Tons of guys dont win until they get a better team around them. Im not sure how many guys on SA would have even started on the Knicks.

Im not saying i want to offer SA the moon for him and i agree that i think this is mostly BS and he doesnt get moved.

In comment 15738642 Italianju said:

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who was the second best player on the team? Keldon Johnson? Poeltl? Sorry i just dont love the "guy hasnt wont" argument in the NBA. Tons of guys dont win until they get a better team around them. Im not sure how many guys on SA would have even started on the Knicks. Im not saying i want to offer SA the moon for him and i agree that i think this is mostly BS and he doesnt get moved.

For one, Keldon Johnson is a good player as is Poetl and Derrick White was on the team for half the year. It's not like the Knicks have a stacked team and they were better than SA even with Randle being a major net negative all year. Great players can usually carry a team to playing .500 ball, not winning doesn't mean not winning a championship or being a contender. If you're currently sporting a lottery roster then if you're going to trade 3 firsts (2 at least unprotected) and 2 pick swaps you should be getting a top 15 player

In comment 15738637 robbieballs2003 said:

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In comment 15738596 Heisenberg said: Quote: In comment 15738595 robbieballs2003 said: Quote: He could have fooled me with playing guys like Randle and Burks a million minutes over the young kids who would run. They talked about pushing pace all year. They just didn't have the players to do it. I disagree. They had the players to do it and when they were doing it well, they were pulled for players that slowed things down.

They do have the players they are on the bench watching slow moving ISO Randle.
He did this with Rose in Chicago only because he had to based on the talent Rose was.
We have seen him slow the ball to a grind for 2 years Knicks are the worst in pace.
It's going to be funny watching Ivey push the ball and it taking Randle 10 seconds to get up the court.