NFT: Knicks Chat: Draft 2 days away

Knicks are expected to move away from Burks and Noel among others as well

There will be many in here who think it's an over pay, and it probably is. However I'd be ok with it. To me he's a younger healthier version of the current Derrick Rose and that fine by me. If we can add him for just money and maintain all of our assets, it's an important addition because it would allow us to continue to improve.

In comment 15736851 nygiants16 said:

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Knicks are expected to move away from Burks and Noel among others as well

I haven't been blown away by Rose and co but that's the best thing they've done. Draft well for the slots they've drafted from and create a roster of movable parts for a scenario like this.

that the Pacers are expected to trade Brogdon this week, Knicks and wozards the most viable suitors who will turn their attention to Brogodn if no trade up for Ivey

on Kyrie. Cancer to every team he's been a part of. Plays a limited schedule every year. Dump Randle, Noel, Burks, Rose and play the kids. Next year's draft is the best in 10 years. Let Quickley run the show and if you are a lottery team great. If the kids come together and we make the playoffs great. If Dolan gets impatient we're fucked for another 10 years. Look at the Rangers as a model for the kind of success we want.

is damaged goods. A pox on trying to win 45 games and get blown out in the playoffs.

This team is so desperate for a PG that they'll either overpay (Brunson), overdraft (TyTy), trade for an injury-prone guy (Brogdon) or sign a complete and utter headcase (Kyrie).



Not ideal.

In comment 15736872 Anakim said:

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This team is so desperate for a PG that they'll either overpay (Brunson), overdraft (TyTy), trade for an injury-prone guy (Brogdon) or sign a complete and utter headcase (Kyrie). Not ideal.

Id rather go after Brogdon, yes i know the injury history but you can plag Iq and him together in the starting lineup...

I am starting to wonder if they are going to offer 11 and dump a bunch of salary on Indiana for Brogdon then go after Brunson or Kyrie

😞😞😞.

if they can pull it off, you don't even need to clear the money. You just need the verbal agreements in place + plus the verbal agreement with Brunson. Dallas would then be incentivized to do a sign-and-trade. Obviously, that's all easier said then done.

In comment 15736875 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:

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😞😞😞.

just relax and let it happen my friend, that opening night he drops 50 on brooklyn, we are going to be excited together

In comment 15736878 Enzo said:

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if they can pull it off, you don't even need to clear the money. You just need the verbal agreements in place + plus the verbal agreement with Brunson. Dallas would then be incentivized to do a sign-and-trade. Obviously, that's all easier said then done.

I think they are trying to dump salary on indiana in a Brogdon deal and will do that if they dont get Ivey

Then he'll go missing for 2 weeks only to reemerge at some Flat Earth rally in Copenhagen. Haha.

Jonathan Macri
@JCMacriNBA
“Few teams expect the Knicks to be drafting [at 11] when all is said and done. The team is said to be aggressively exploring scenarios in which they will trade down or trade out of the draft altogether if they can land a starting caliber-point guard such as Malcolm Brogdon”

In comment 15736885 adamg said:

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Jonathan Macri @JCMacriNBA “Few teams expect the Knicks to be drafting [at 11] when all is said and done. The team is said to be aggressively exploring scenarios in which they will trade down or trade out of the draft altogether if they can land a starting caliber-point guard such as Malcolm Brogdon”

I dont think its just 11 for Brogdon, i think its a wholr bunch of salary and 11 for Brogdon

In comment 15736884 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:

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Then he'll go missing for 2 weeks only to reemerge at some Flat Earth rally in Copenhagen. Haha.

haha probably..

That has to be smoke. Knicks front office has been heavily risk-averse under Rose.

Trading significant items for an always-injured Brogdon doesn't make sense to that.

In comment 15736892 Ten Ton Hammer said:

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That has to be smoke. Knicks front office has been heavily risk-averse under Rose. Trading significant items for an always-injured Brogdon doesn't make sense to that.

It wouldnt be 11 for Brogdon..

It would probably be Randle, Burks, noel and 11 for Brogdon..

Clears 25 million, clears Randle, clears playing time and clears a path to go get Brunson..

I dont think they are trading for Brogdon to be their stsrting point

for certain Brunson is going to sign here. While we've been let down before in similar situations, never before has the FA's dad worked for the organization.

..

I get the idea that they wanted to bring the "band" back after a successful 20-21 season, but salary commitments to pedestrian players like Burks, Noel etc. really bites them in the ass for pursuit of Brunson (disregarding Randle, Walker, Fournier deals for now).

Getting Brunson (or Sexton, I suppose) is critical. Otherwise, Randle will continue to hijack the offense. The desperately need a lead guard. I do like IQ as a combo/bench guard, but that isn't enough to take the ball out of Randle's hands.

In comment 15736852 Stu11 said:

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There will be many in here who think it's an over pay, and it probably is. However I'd be ok with it. To me he's a younger healthier version of the current Derrick Rose and that fine by me. If we can add him for just money and maintain all of our assets, it's an important addition because it would allow us to continue to improve.

Most of these "not quite max" guys who get paid are overpays. By definition, you're at the top of the player's market. If we did that, I'd be pretty stoked. He's a really good player and a real grinder. Works hard. In that way he really fits what the Knicks are trying to build.

That said, he's a pathway to being a good team, not a great one. We still need to find stars. That's why I'm hoping we swing big to move up for Ivey. That would tell me that the Knicks feel he has star potential and he's exactly the kind of explosive guard we lack.

If they land him, I'll live with whatever they do with the vets.

Try to go get Ivey..

Clear the vets on expiring deals to clear cap space and a path for the youth..

Reshape the back court..

I think Ivey is clearly plan A, i think if that doesnt work they go get Brogdon and clear salary at the same time..

Sign Brunson or Kyrie..

I think if they do trade up Ivey, i still think they clear salary and try and sign Irving or Brunson

However I think he's being overated here, and by all accounts the price will be high. The types of assets being talked about will limit our ability to further improve. I think Brunson for $ only is our best option.

to try to get Ivy, but i am hard pressed to think we are getting from 11 to 4 without including guys we probably dont want to include (RJ or Obi, obviously ivy isnt worth that to me).

If we get Brogdon in a salary dump or a randle swap ill live with it. Ill just pray he can play 65 or so games and maybe be healthy in the playoffs.

I really dont love Brunson. I know the contract he will get is the going rate in the NBA. Not max guys get the max or near the max all the time, but im just not sure investing all of that in him is the right move. Do we think he is a top 15 PG if he gets 35 minutes a game? I wont be upset if we sign him, but i wont be thrilled either.

In comment 15736872 Anakim said:

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This team is so desperate for a PG that they'll either overpay (Brunson), overdraft (TyTy), trade for an injury-prone guy (Brogdon) or sign a complete and utter headcase (Kyrie). Not ideal.

^This. Brunson will be hugely expensive. What I read is that the Knicks, Grizzles, and Wizards all want to move up to four to take Ivey. All are desperate for a PG. Beal has a PO IIRC that he is expected to invoke.

The Knicks should just dump as many players as possible instead of overpaying for Brunson.

Tyus Jones?

I could see him providing similar production to Brunson at a lower cost, but I have never seen him connected with the Knicks at all, so I assume he's not even on their radar.

Legion Hoops
@LegionHoops

REPORT: The Suns could trade Cameron Johnson to the Pelicans for the No. 8 overall pick, clearing the way for Phoenix to offer Deandre Ayton more money. (via @DraftExpress)

at 25 million isn't "great" but it's not bad. #11 straight for Brogdon would be absolutely awful.

In comment 15736944 DanMetroMan said:

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at 25 million isn't "great" but it's not bad. #11 straight for Brogdon would be absolutely awful.

11 for Brogdon is such a typical Knicks move I can see it happening. It would reaffirm that Leon Rose is as bad as Isiah Thomas was in running the Knicks.

thanks for making and feeding them.

is a good, not great player even at his realistic best (this isn't rolling the dice on high risk greatness) he's 30 in December and his injury history is truly absurd. Forget 82 games he's played 60 games twice in his career.

It's not likely at all to me.

Isiah Thomas or Phil Jackson might do that, but Rose's identity is being overly cautious or slow and steady.

yesterday but worth posting again... this is just since 2020-

02/28/2022 Rest
02/24/2022 Achilles
01/20/2022 Achilles
01/13/2022 Achilles
01/12/2022 Achilles
12/23/2021 Health And Safety Protocols
11/05/2021 Illness
10/27/2021 Hamstring
10/19/2021 Left Ac
04/29/2021 Hamstring
04/02/2021 Hip
03/22/2021 Back
02/27/2021 Knee
08/11/2020 Neck
08/05/2020 Neck
07/31/2020 Cervical Strain
03/04/2020 Hip
01/25/2020 Concussion
01/22/2020 Laceration

It is this front office MO.
Rose has done nothing in the way of a splash move. We keep getting these rumors and nothing transpires with Rose.
Btw I am not sold on any of these moves
Brunson would be the best of all but is expensive.
Ivey we sell the farm for an unproven rookie that will take time to develop
Brogdon will not be cheap and can't stay healthy.

.

In comment 15736938 Gatorade Dunk said:

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Tyus Jones? I could see him providing similar production to Brunson at a lower cost, but I have never seen him connected with the Knicks at all, so I assume he's not even on their radar.

They add a third goddamned Dookie, I'm out. I can, and certainly have, put up with a lot as a Knicks fan, but we all have our red lines, and that's mine.

is 4 years younger, and his same injury tracker...

11/26/2021 Foot
01/08/2021 Health And Safety Protocols
02/22/2020 Shoulder


So...

In comment 15736968 larryflower37 said:

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It is this front office MO. Rose has done nothing in the way of a splash move. We keep getting these rumors and nothing transpires with Rose. Btw I am not sold on any of these moves Brunson would be the best of all but is expensive. Ivey we sell the farm for an unproven rookie that will take time to develop Brogdon will not be cheap and can't stay healthy.

Agreed, we will sit at 11 and maybe unload one player (Burks or Noel).

I woudl love Brunson or Ivey but that sounds like a pipe dream. Signing all these guys to 2-3 year deals was not really the right move. Rose has yet to do anything drastic. At least it seems like he is decent at drafting (IQ, Grimes, Obi etc).

In comment 15736974 DanMetroMan said:

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is 4 years younger, and his same injury tracker... 11/26/2021 Foot 01/08/2021 Health And Safety Protocols 02/22/2020 Shoulder So...

Makes too much sense to land a young healthy up and coming PG with playoff experience. When things make too much sense with the Knicks… well we know how that goes

In comment 15736983 TommyWiseau said:

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In comment 15736974 DanMetroMan said: Quote: is 4 years younger, and his same injury tracker... 11/26/2021 Foot 01/08/2021 Health And Safety Protocols 02/22/2020 Shoulder So... Makes too much sense to land a young healthy up and coming PG with playoff experience. When things make too much sense with the Knicks… well we know how that goes

Good chance he stays in Dallas anyway, not really in their control at all.

I know some won't like it, but don't underestimate this guy. He's a winner and a big time culture changer. He's not just a regular guy.

But he's not the kind of a guy who can carry a team. They'd still need a #1 star.

In comment 15736959 DanMetroMan said:

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is a good, not great player even at his realistic best (this isn't rolling the dice on high risk greatness) he's 30 in December and his injury history is truly absurd. Forget 82 games he's played 60 games twice in his career.

Agreed. But trading for Brogdon in any scenario is a classic Knicks move, and exactly why the franchise has stunk for decades.

concern is Dallas keeping Brunson and the Knicks pivot to "next best" (which may or may not be Brogdon). They obviously badly need a PG but "next best" isn't always the right move (see the Mets with James McCann when they couldn't land Realmuto).

I don't see a real possibility for a trade up, and I don't think they go for Brogdon. I think they'll go after Brunson and Dallas throws money at him to keep him.

but unloading salary to sign him outright would signal that Dallas has no interest in a sign and trade with the Knicks.

If that's the case, then you have to be careful about what sort of moves you make. You don't want to sacrifice too many draft assets to move off of salaries that are expiring at the end of next season. Rose and Noel are at least functional players when healthy and Burks is a genuine asset on a good deal.

Trading 11 for Brogdon would make me lose my mind. And trading a bunch of salary and 11 for Brogdon would be even worse.

In comment 15737010 Jan in DC said:

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but unloading salary to sign him outright would signal that Dallas has no interest in a sign and trade with the Knicks. If that's the case, then you have to be careful about what sort of moves you make. You don't want to sacrifice too many draft assets to move off of salaries that are expiring at the end of next season. Rose and Noel are at least functional players when healthy and Burks is a genuine asset on a good deal. Trading 11 for Brogdon would make me lose my mind. And trading a bunch of salary and 11 for Brogdon would be even worse.

how is clearing 25 million bad?

In comment 15737009 Ten Ton Hammer said:

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I don't see a real possibility for a trade up, and I don't think they go for Brogdon. I think they'll go after Brunson and Dallas throws money at him to keep him.

This is what I expect to happen. I don't think they'll make any desperate moves. I think they'll try to draft another functional player at 11, try to move off some vets to open up playing time for the youth and go into the season with the mindset that maybe Randle, Rose and Noel can be moved at the deadline for actual value where they could be bargaining with a position of power instead of selling low and maybe sacrificing picks in what is supposed to be a good draft next year.