with companies and finance directly tied to the Chinese Communist Party.
So... there really is 0 room to hide behind "human rights concerns" when trying to sell people PGA vs LIV.
What is it? Which company?
PGA China. lol.
Also, google Shankai sports, it's basically the way China allowed golf to exist in China.
What has that got to do with big sponsors for PGA Tour...?
The hypocrisy of the PGA is laughable - how can you criticize human rights abuse of the financiers of the LIV Tour while you cozy up to the Chinese to grow the sport of golf? Jay Monahan and the PGA miscalculated the risk of players going to the LIV and are acting like spoiled children who didn't get their way. The PGA doesn't have a monopoly on golf and competition is good for the sport. The players make the sport, not the league. The tone of the PGA since the first wave left is embarrassing and hopefully they learn prety quickly that they need to embrace the LIV Tour in the near term while they work with the exiled players on how they can make the PGA more attractive to the players. The PGA is not innovative and the sport could benefit from some new ideas; I expect (and hope) some of the innovations from the LIV (team play, shotgun start, etc.) will shake up the future of golf.
RE: RE: RE: RE: There will probably be no drug testing policy in the LIV,
so a couple of guys certainly will have a better quality of life.
Because drugs increase quality of life....
For some it does. What would a guy like Couples have done if MJ was legal, for example? It’s not an impact sport but these guys have back and knee injuries alll the time, some relief without opioids would be, and is, desirable.
MJ does not stop the pain on the course. Might it offer relief later? maybe. But it does not help a bad back.
MJ has a ton of benefits, why you are isolating it to only while playing is strange. What happens between rounds, no pain? CBD was just now made legal on the PGA Tour (I believe), that could have helped during play.
Its also just one example. You seem to refute that drugs (and in this example, Marijuana) don't help with quality of life. That simply isn't true. It may not for you, but it works for many people.
MJ has a ton of benefits, why you are isolating it to only while playing is strange. What happens between rounds, no pain? CBD was just now made legal on the PGA Tour (I believe), that could have helped during play.
Its also just one example. You seem to refute that drugs (and in this example, Marijuana) don't help with quality of life. That simply isn't true. It may not for you, but it works for many people.
I am not above getting toasted. Because of Fed Drug testing I was limited to alcohol. Been there done that. If getting effed up is what you call quality of life, then our definitions are different.
Yes CBD and THC do have medicinal value. I don't find CBD helps too much with golf. Tried it and my back still hurt like hell when swinging a club.
look at any number of top MMA fighters, NFL stars like Calvin Johnson/Marshawn Lynch/Ricky Williams, a significant portion of the NBA, etc. Some of it is recreational for sure, and others they use it in place of opioids.
Personally, my knee is fucked up and after I run I can either pop 2/3 advil or vape a little MJ to ease the pain and help with sleep if its really bad - the difference in effectiveness is staggering. I won't even consider opioids, refused them for every surgery i've ever had.
look at any number of top MMA fighters, NFL stars like Calvin Johnson/Marshawn Lynch/Ricky Williams, a significant portion of the NBA, etc. Some of it is recreational for sure, and others they use it in place of opioids.
Personally, my knee is fucked up and after I run I can either pop 2/3 advil or vape a little MJ to ease the pain and help with sleep if its really bad - the difference in effectiveness is staggering. I won't even consider opioids, refused them for every surgery i've ever had.
look at any number of top MMA fighters, NFL stars like Calvin Johnson/Marshawn Lynch/Ricky Williams, a significant portion of the NBA, etc. Some of it is recreational for sure, and others they use it in place of opioids.
Personally, my knee is fucked up and after I run I can either pop 2/3 advil or vape a little MJ to ease the pain and help with sleep if its really bad - the difference in effectiveness is staggering. I won't even consider opioids, refused them for every surgery i've ever had.
Personal effectiveness is what is important and knocking the edge off is effective for sleep. I can see it for chronic pain. I also think vaping a little is a lot better for your liver than 2 or 3 advil or tylenol at a time.
If the pga wants to be righteous then stop playing at any of trumps courses. The man is as big a scumbag as any Saudi
The PGA did cancel play at Trump's courses. LIV is already scheduled to play at one of Trump's courses. Trump wastes no time in getting revenge.
LIV is not paying the players what they are worth. It is a money loosing operation now. They are paying more than the players are worth with no care about making a profit.
The PGA is full of shit and is cynically playing the morality card because that is all they have now. There's certainly some hypocrisy on their part. But just about every large company, country or entity has shady or blind eye dealings. That doesn't mean it's on the same plain. By this logic you can't criticize anything because everything is inherently corrupt in some capacity. There is a clear distinction between taking a check from the PGA tour or bank sponsor vs. the Saudi government. There is a direct line to who is paying you. The purpose of the LIV Tour is clear to me as well and does factor. When the endowment from the Saudis exceeds the PGA Tour annual revenues by a significant margin there is probably another motivation and it's not to turn a profit.
There is grey here for sure but there is a moral component in playing on LIV, it exists. You can't ignore it just because the PGA themselves are grasping.
That is a big part as well. Probably the biggest part and what is keeping more guys from jumping. To this point they've mostly poached hood ornaments though. DJ should have something to prove but he's like one of those as well. Guys like Bryson, Brooks and Reed are theoretically in their primes but haven't played quality golf in over a year. Hell, the guy with the most recent success to jump was probably Taylor Gooch. If Morikawa jumps that could be a huge shift though. It'll grease the wheels for a wave of guys going.
That is a big part as well. Probably the biggest part and what is keeping more guys from jumping. To this point they've mostly poached hood ornaments though. DJ should have something to prove but he's like one of those as well. Guys like Bryson, Brooks and Reed are theoretically in their primes but haven't played quality golf in over a year. Hell, the guy with the most recent success to jump was probably Taylor Gooch. If Morikawa jumps that could be a huge shift though. It'll grease the wheels for a wave of guys going.
That is a big part as well. Probably the biggest part and what is keeping more guys from jumping. To this point they've mostly poached hood ornaments though. DJ should have something to prove but he's like one of those as well. Guys like Bryson, Brooks and Reed are theoretically in their primes but haven't played quality golf in over a year. Hell, the guy with the most recent success to jump was probably Taylor Gooch. If Morikawa jumps that could be a huge shift though. It'll grease the wheels for a wave of guys going.
you are 100% right that the guys they've gotten are more damaged goods than future stars at this point but if the liv tour was smart and they wanted to destroy the PGA tour they'd give Sheffler and Zalatoris $500m. It's inconceivable to me how either of those guys could pass on an offer like that.
Phil would still be the PR lightning rod even though him not being on tour is almost meaningless. that's what made his decision so craven.
nobody is watching the liv tour and the pga just had a great US open so this should all work itself out in due time but that doesn't mean there's not significant risk to the game fracturing for the worse. and for what? a competitive league nobody cares about?
and it was as crappy as crappy of an experience as you would expect. like the senior tour it feels watered down and unexciting even if there are a few players you know have a slight interest in watching, but unlike the senior tour it feels like a very cartoonish version of golf. even with all the shock value the viewership was low and i dont see how that changes if they are sticking with team fireballs vs. team niblicks.
That is a big part as well. Probably the biggest part and what is keeping more guys from jumping. To this point they've mostly poached hood ornaments though. DJ should have something to prove but he's like one of those as well. Guys like Bryson, Brooks and Reed are theoretically in their primes but haven't played quality golf in over a year. Hell, the guy with the most recent success to jump was probably Taylor Gooch. If Morikawa jumps that could be a huge shift though. It'll grease the wheels for a wave of guys going.
Morikawa tweeted today he is not heading to the exhibition tour. Morikawa blames media for rumors of departure - ( New Window )
Missed that, thanks. Great news for the PGA for sure.
I'm against the LIV on principle. The fact that its five biggest
In response to the LIV Golf threat, the PGA Tour hopes to introduce a revamped schedule that will include increased purses worth at least $20 million in at least eight existing marquee events and three new events in a global golf series that will include no cuts, limited fields and purses of at least $25 million, sources told ESPN on Tuesday.
According to sources, the increased purses would include existing tournaments such as the Sentry Tournament of Champions, the Genesis Invitational, Arnold Palmer Invitational, the Players Championship, the Memorial Tournament and others. Sources said the increased purses would be paid from sponsors or the tour's reserves.
Additionally, three new international events, which would include no cuts and as many as the top 60 players in the previous season's FedEx Cup standings, would be introduced. The events would not have anchor cities and would move around like the major championships, according to sources.
Harris English, the defending champion at this week's Travelers Championship, said he thinks it's possible these new measures might be enough to deter more players from defecting to LIV Golf.
"I think it can be, for sure," English said. "One of the things out here on the PGA Tour, I mean, we have a lot of tournaments and I think the fall series has been tough. ... Guys have families and they want to play a little less golf. However they can manage that to the best of both worlds of having the top players and the guys who are fighting for their card."
Said Patrick Cantlay, who has six top-five finishes this year: "Right now it's an uncertain time for golf, but if you think about it in the larger business landscape, it's a competition for talent. So if the PGA Tour wants to remain the preeminent tour for professional golfers, it has to be the best place to play for the best players in the world."
More guys will jump. The PGA Tour does not control the majors and the big names care about the majors. They can’t keep them out.
You can make more money and play the majors and play less golf. Why would they not jump
Let’s be honest, no one really cares about tournaments like the Fortinet Champ, Sanderson Farms, Bermuda Championship, Travelers, John Deere, Barbasol, etc, etc
I think this will eventually come to a partnership where the LIV events replace some of these others - the money is too great. They will partner and just like they currently have now with dual events they will just have more of that. You can easily create tournaments with limited fields for the top players and have other tournaments
In the end, money talks and like everything else, those who have it want more of it
Same as soccer. If the rulers of these countries are willing to lose literally $100s of millions / year forever, nobody who operates under normal economic constraints can come close.
and it was as crappy as crappy of an experience as you would expect. like the senior tour it feels watered down and unexciting even if there are a few players you know have a slight interest in watching, but unlike the senior tour it feels like a very cartoonish version of golf. even with all the shock value the viewership was low and i dont see how that changes if they are sticking with team fireballs vs. team niblicks.
Shotgun starts are a terrible idea. I mean that really takes a ton of drama out of tournaments. I don’t know what to make of LIV long-terms, but right now the structure of play between the starts and the team deal is just not interesting to me.
RE: RE: i watched the first tournament for like 5 minutes
and it was as crappy as crappy of an experience as you would expect. like the senior tour it feels watered down and unexciting even if there are a few players you know have a slight interest in watching, but unlike the senior tour it feels like a very cartoonish version of golf. even with all the shock value the viewership was low and i dont see how that changes if they are sticking with team fireballs vs. team niblicks.
Shotgun starts are a terrible idea. I mean that really takes a ton of drama out of tournaments. I don’t know what to make of LIV long-terms, but right now the structure of play between the starts and the team deal is just not interesting to me.
i honestly find nothing about the structure interesting. it's like someone pitched a "c league ryder cup meets a hokier version of the match, but with a lot more cash!". the actual product is more embarrassing than where the $ is coming from.
Let me rephrase that...I LIKED Koepka up until this.
I have no idea how anyone on the planet could like Koepka. That dude is insufferably arrogant and acts like he thinks he’s still a frat boy. Everything about his personality makes you want to throat punch the shit out of him.
A former coworker of mine went to high school with Koepka & said he was a good dude so I sorta latched onto that.
Could be. I’m guessing fame got to him but there’s no way I can watch an interview with him without coming away thinking this guy is a entitled, arrogant big man on campus prick.
He wouldn't be the first. A friend of my Mom's grew up with Julia Roberts down in Georgia & ran into her at an airport in the mid 90s-long after Roberts had achieved fame-& called her 'Jules', a nickname of hers growing up. Roberts turned to my Mom's friend & sternly said 'It's Julia!' & stormed off.
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In comment 15737089 section125 said:
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In comment 15737066 NoPeanutz said:
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with companies and finance directly tied to the Chinese Communist Party.
So... there really is 0 room to hide behind "human rights concerns" when trying to sell people PGA vs LIV.
What is it? Which company?
PGA China. lol.
Also, google Shankai sports, it's basically the way China allowed golf to exist in China.
What has that got to do with big sponsors for PGA Tour...?
The hypocrisy of the PGA is laughable - how can you criticize human rights abuse of the financiers of the LIV Tour while you cozy up to the Chinese to grow the sport of golf? Jay Monahan and the PGA miscalculated the risk of players going to the LIV and are acting like spoiled children who didn't get their way. The PGA doesn't have a monopoly on golf and competition is good for the sport. The players make the sport, not the league. The tone of the PGA since the first wave left is embarrassing and hopefully they learn prety quickly that they need to embrace the LIV Tour in the near term while they work with the exiled players on how they can make the PGA more attractive to the players. The PGA is not innovative and the sport could benefit from some new ideas; I expect (and hope) some of the innovations from the LIV (team play, shotgun start, etc.) will shake up the future of golf.
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In comment 15737049 section125 said:
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In comment 15737042 Racer said:
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so a couple of guys certainly will have a better quality of life.
Because drugs increase quality of life....
For some it does. What would a guy like Couples have done if MJ was legal, for example? It’s not an impact sport but these guys have back and knee injuries alll the time, some relief without opioids would be, and is, desirable.
MJ does not stop the pain on the course. Might it offer relief later? maybe. But it does not help a bad back.
MJ has a ton of benefits, why you are isolating it to only while playing is strange. What happens between rounds, no pain? CBD was just now made legal on the PGA Tour (I believe), that could have helped during play.
Its also just one example. You seem to refute that drugs (and in this example, Marijuana) don't help with quality of life. That simply isn't true. It may not for you, but it works for many people.
MJ has a ton of benefits, why you are isolating it to only while playing is strange. What happens between rounds, no pain? CBD was just now made legal on the PGA Tour (I believe), that could have helped during play.
Its also just one example. You seem to refute that drugs (and in this example, Marijuana) don't help with quality of life. That simply isn't true. It may not for you, but it works for many people.
I am not above getting toasted. Because of Fed Drug testing I was limited to alcohol. Been there done that. If getting effed up is what you call quality of life, then our definitions are different.
Yes CBD and THC do have medicinal value. I don't find CBD helps too much with golf. Tried it and my back still hurt like hell when swinging a club.
Personally, my knee is fucked up and after I run I can either pop 2/3 advil or vape a little MJ to ease the pain and help with sleep if its really bad - the difference in effectiveness is staggering. I won't even consider opioids, refused them for every surgery i've ever had.
Personally, my knee is fucked up and after I run I can either pop 2/3 advil or vape a little MJ to ease the pain and help with sleep if its really bad - the difference in effectiveness is staggering. I won't even consider opioids, refused them for every surgery i've ever had.
Personally, my knee is fucked up and after I run I can either pop 2/3 advil or vape a little MJ to ease the pain and help with sleep if its really bad - the difference in effectiveness is staggering. I won't even consider opioids, refused them for every surgery i've ever had.
Personal effectiveness is what is important and knocking the edge off is effective for sleep. I can see it for chronic pain. I also think vaping a little is a lot better for your liver than 2 or 3 advil or tylenol at a time.
The PGA did cancel play at Trump's courses. LIV is already scheduled to play at one of Trump's courses. Trump wastes no time in getting revenge.
LIV is not paying the players what they are worth. It is a money loosing operation now. They are paying more than the players are worth with no care about making a profit.
There is grey here for sure but there is a moral component in playing on LIV, it exists. You can't ignore it just because the PGA themselves are grasping.
if pat mahomes joined a 7 on 7 professional flag football league the NFL/NFL fans would be pissed and rightfully so.
if connor mcdavid decided to pursue roller derby the NHL/NHL fans would be pissed and rightfully so.
if pete alonso left the mets to join a professional home run derby tour the MLB/MLB fans would be pissed and rightfully so.
and almost all of those decisions would be more justifiable than what Mickelson did.
pick your favorite analogy and think about it in that context apart from the Saudis/PRC/clickbait narratives.
Morikawa tweeted today he is not heading to the exhibition tour.
Morikawa blames media for rumors of departure - ( New Window )
you are 100% right that the guys they've gotten are more damaged goods than future stars at this point but if the liv tour was smart and they wanted to destroy the PGA tour they'd give Sheffler and Zalatoris $500m. It's inconceivable to me how either of those guys could pass on an offer like that.
Phil would still be the PR lightning rod even though him not being on tour is almost meaningless. that's what made his decision so craven.
nobody is watching the liv tour and the pga just had a great US open so this should all work itself out in due time but that doesn't mean there's not significant risk to the game fracturing for the worse. and for what? a competitive league nobody cares about?
I’m with you.
Quote:
That is a big part as well. Probably the biggest part and what is keeping more guys from jumping. To this point they've mostly poached hood ornaments though. DJ should have something to prove but he's like one of those as well. Guys like Bryson, Brooks and Reed are theoretically in their primes but haven't played quality golf in over a year. Hell, the guy with the most recent success to jump was probably Taylor Gooch. If Morikawa jumps that could be a huge shift though. It'll grease the wheels for a wave of guys going.
Morikawa tweeted today he is not heading to the exhibition tour. Morikawa blames media for rumors of departure - ( New Window )
Missed that, thanks. Great news for the PGA for sure.
I'll love it if fans don't turn out, but maybe LIV will give away tickets for free.
According to sources, the increased purses would include existing tournaments such as the Sentry Tournament of Champions, the Genesis Invitational, Arnold Palmer Invitational, the Players Championship, the Memorial Tournament and others. Sources said the increased purses would be paid from sponsors or the tour's reserves.
Additionally, three new international events, which would include no cuts and as many as the top 60 players in the previous season's FedEx Cup standings, would be introduced. The events would not have anchor cities and would move around like the major championships, according to sources.
Harris English, the defending champion at this week's Travelers Championship, said he thinks it's possible these new measures might be enough to deter more players from defecting to LIV Golf.
"I think it can be, for sure," English said. "One of the things out here on the PGA Tour, I mean, we have a lot of tournaments and I think the fall series has been tough. ... Guys have families and they want to play a little less golf. However they can manage that to the best of both worlds of having the top players and the guys who are fighting for their card."
Said Patrick Cantlay, who has six top-five finishes this year: "Right now it's an uncertain time for golf, but if you think about it in the larger business landscape, it's a competition for talent. So if the PGA Tour wants to remain the preeminent tour for professional golfers, it has to be the best place to play for the best players in the world."
Link - ( New Window )
You can make more money and play the majors and play less golf. Why would they not jump
Let’s be honest, no one really cares about tournaments like the Fortinet Champ, Sanderson Farms, Bermuda Championship, Travelers, John Deere, Barbasol, etc, etc
I think this will eventually come to a partnership where the LIV events replace some of these others - the money is too great. They will partner and just like they currently have now with dual events they will just have more of that. You can easily create tournaments with limited fields for the top players and have other tournaments
In the end, money talks and like everything else, those who have it want more of it
Shotgun starts are a terrible idea. I mean that really takes a ton of drama out of tournaments. I don’t know what to make of LIV long-terms, but right now the structure of play between the starts and the team deal is just not interesting to me.
Quote:
and it was as crappy as crappy of an experience as you would expect. like the senior tour it feels watered down and unexciting even if there are a few players you know have a slight interest in watching, but unlike the senior tour it feels like a very cartoonish version of golf. even with all the shock value the viewership was low and i dont see how that changes if they are sticking with team fireballs vs. team niblicks.
Shotgun starts are a terrible idea. I mean that really takes a ton of drama out of tournaments. I don’t know what to make of LIV long-terms, but right now the structure of play between the starts and the team deal is just not interesting to me.
i honestly find nothing about the structure interesting. it's like someone pitched a "c league ryder cup meets a hokier version of the match, but with a lot more cash!". the actual product is more embarrassing than where the $ is coming from.
I have no idea how anyone on the planet could like Koepka. That dude is insufferably arrogant and acts like he thinks he’s still a frat boy. Everything about his personality makes you want to throat punch the shit out of him.
Great golfer. Absolutely unbearable personality.
Could be. I’m guessing fame got to him but there’s no way I can watch an interview with him without coming away thinking this guy is a entitled, arrogant big man on campus prick.
Fame can go to people's head for sure.