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NFT: NBA Draft Day- Knicks Chat

Reeses Pieces : 6/23/2022 8:42 am
Many of the recent Knicks rumors have lost some steam from a few days ago.

Do the Knicks put all their chips on the table, cutting a deal with the Kings for Jaden Ivey?

A possible Malcom Brogdon deal is said to not include the 11th pick.

Will the Knicks clear $25M in cap space to sign Jalen Brunson?

Where does Burks and Noel land if dealt?

Julius Randle is never in national trade rumors.

If NY stays at 11 and drafts AJ Griffin, how will he history of knee issues fair?

Dejounte Murray was rumored in a possible John Collins deal. This is something the Knicks should investigate.

A lot of Knicks fans on Twitter are down on Leon Rose and Co. Many stating that he is just taking care of CAA, family and friends.

We will have some more clarity in a few hours.

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At least we will have fun for a week  
nygiants16 : 6/24/2022 12:08 am : link
talking about free agency
RE: At least we will have fun for a week  
larryflower37 : 6/24/2022 12:12 am : link
In comment 15740057 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
talking about free agency

Beal and Levine are available lol
Hoping we sign Michael Foster Jr. and Iverson Molinar to the Summer  
Anakim : 6/24/2022 12:34 am : link
League team
Front office is afraid to make a move...  
Jan in DC : 6/24/2022 12:37 am : link
so they pedal "hope".

Think of how many more picks they can not make in the future. All these future protected firsts can be spun out into other future firsts.

I envision a day in which the only two teams that will be drafting are OKC and NYK.
Jan  
five5 : 6/24/2022 12:39 am : link
Hysterical…well said. This team is just stuck in mediocrity and that’s being kind.
Of course  
larryflower37 : 6/24/2022 12:46 am : link
The Knicks say they will not hold any news conference following tonight’s draft or tomorrow. Leon Rose has not spoken on the record since before the 2021-22 season.
Of course King Leon isn't going to talk to the media  
Anakim : 6/24/2022 12:48 am : link
Fred Katz
@FredKatz
The Knicks say they will not hold any news conference following tonight’s draft or tomorrow. Leon Rose has not spoken on the record since before the 2021-22 season.


Fire this asshole. He's just as bad as Layden, Isiah, Phil and Mills. A long line of incompetence. Nice going, Dolan. You overpaid a bunch of incompetents to scorch earth your franchise.
I've never seen a guy bungle more draft day trades than Leon Rose  
Anakim : 6/24/2022 12:53 am : link
It's actually astonishing how he can get so abused in these trades. For the first time in a long time, we're actually trading down and accruing future picks, but we're being taken to the woodshed in each trade and not getting fair value of them because they each have huge protections on them.



Remind me again what he did to deserve being named president? Because he was a superagent? Whoopdeefreakingdoo. What does that even prove? It certainly doesn't mean he has an eye for talent. Did Dolan think that because Rose represented some of the top names that he would convince them to sign with New York?
Updated Knicks roster 2023  
Vanzetti : 6/24/2022 12:55 am : link
Kyrie
Big Z
RJ
Cam
Obi

RE: Of course King Leon isn't going to talk to the media  
Jan in DC : 6/24/2022 12:59 am : link
In comment 15740064 Anakim said:
Quote:
Fred Katz
@FredKatz
The Knicks say they will not hold any news conference following tonight’s draft or tomorrow. Leon Rose has not spoken on the record since before the 2021-22 season.


Fire this asshole. He's just as bad as Layden, Isiah, Phil and Mills. A long line of incompetence. Nice going, Dolan. You overpaid a bunch of incompetents to scorch earth your franchise.


Oh I just hope for another Breen interview. So informative, so NATURAL.
RE: I've never seen a guy bungle more draft day trades than Leon Rose  
Jan in DC : 6/24/2022 1:06 am : link
In comment 15740065 Anakim said:
Quote:
It's actually astonishing how he can get so abused in these trades. For the first time in a long time, we're actually trading down and accruing future picks, but we're being taken to the woodshed in each trade and not getting fair value of them because they each have huge protections on them.



Remind me again what he did to deserve being named president? Because he was a superagent? Whoopdeefreakingdoo. What does that even prove? It certainly doesn't mean he has an eye for talent. Did Dolan think that because Rose represented some of the top names that he would convince them to sign with New York?


I don't think you understand. He traded 1 pick at #11 for 3 that have a CHANCE to be as high as this one in 3 years. That's value.

You just need to be patient. It's a long term rebuild. At some point they'll use them to trade down again. And THEN they might consider using them, but only to clear out expiring contracts that they signed people to 2 years ago.
Knicks are getting a lot of criticism  
Breeze_94 : 6/24/2022 1:08 am : link
and tbh I'm not sure it's warranted.

As fans we love the draft picks because the unknown element breeds hope. Fact is, for every 1 Shai Gilgous Alexander there are 4 or 5 average to below average players taken at the 11th overall pick. The NBA draft is more of a crap shoot than even the NFL draft it seems. The analytics show that picks outside of the top 7-8 really aren't that valuable

The average NBA career is also MUCH longer than an NFL career, so proven veteran players are much more valuable in the NBA than draft picks because you'll still have a rather long window with that player and they are much more of a guarantee.

Trading the #11 pick isn't awful if it means you cleared cap space to bring in a proven PG who we know will be a valuable piece for the next 5-7 years- the Knicks have needed that for years and IMO there wasn't a good PG in this draft after Ivey. They have RJ, Obi, Robinson, Quickley, Grimes, and McBride as a decent young core to build around and a good starting PG like Brunson (even if he's not considered a good #1 or #2 option) makes all of those guys better
RE: I've never seen a guy bungle more draft day trades than Leon Rose  
robbieballs2003 : 6/24/2022 1:15 am : link
In comment 15740065 Anakim said:
Quote:
It's actually astonishing how he can get so abused in these trades. For the first time in a long time, we're actually trading down and accruing future picks, but we're being taken to the woodshed in each trade and not getting fair value of them because they each have huge protections on them.



Remind me again what he did to deserve being named president? Because he was a superagent? Whoopdeefreakingdoo. What does that even prove? It certainly doesn't mean he has an eye for talent. Did Dolan think that because Rose represented some of the top names that he would convince them to sign with New York?


You are so miserable. What would you have done? Draft one of these players at 11? You critize him not having an eye cor talent yet he has brought in Obi, IQ, Grimes, McBride, and Sims in the last two years. Have they missed on a pick yet?
RE: Knicks are getting a lot of criticism  
Giantfan21 : 6/24/2022 1:16 am : link
In comment 15740071 Breeze_94 said:
Quote:
and tbh I'm not sure it's warranted.

As fans we love the draft picks because the unknown element breeds hope. Fact is, for every 1 Shai Gilgous Alexander there are 4 or 5 average to below average players taken at the 11th overall pick. The NBA draft is more of a crap shoot than even the NFL draft it seems. The analytics show that picks outside of the top 7-8 really aren't that valuable

The average NBA career is also MUCH longer than an NFL career, so proven veteran players are much more valuable in the NBA than draft picks because you'll still have a rather long window with that player and they are much more of a guarantee.

Trading the #11 pick isn't awful if it means you cleared cap space to bring in a proven PG who we know will be a valuable piece for the next 5-7 years- the Knicks have needed that for years and IMO there wasn't a good PG in this draft after Ivey. They have RJ, Obi, Robinson, Quickley, Grimes, and McBride as a decent young core to build around and a good starting PG like Brunson (even if he's not considered a good #1 or #2 option) makes all of those guys better


Using the number 11 pick to clear cap space to fix the mess YOU made is why they are getting criticism and it is very well warranted. Every single FA signing last season looks terrible in hindsight and to be honest most people said they were horrible at the time itself.

As far as the roster, they deserve tons of criticism for that as well. They have a majority of the roster are young players who are more talented then the older vets but are stuck scrambling for minutes either coming off the bench or getting DNP for a stubborn coach who cant adapt to the modern NBA.

This whole front office deserves every ounce of criticism they receive
Well if anyone deserves the benefit of a doubt  
widmerseyebrow : 6/24/2022 1:25 am : link
It's the Knicks.
RE: RE: Knicks are getting a lot of criticism  
giantstock : 6/24/2022 1:44 am : link
In comment 15740073 Giantfan21 said:
Quote:
In comment 15740071 Breeze_94 said:


Quote:


or getting DNP for a stubborn coach who cant adapt to the modern NBA.



While I agree the FO has been blundering but whenever I hear this nonsense that you stated above - you lunatics make me laugh. SO the prior year he is COY and now the next year he is a stubborn idiot?

Yeah him not giving those young guys those extra minutes really would've made a difference. Yeah right.

The problem is the players. Not the coach. The problem is some of you listen too much to the NY media who are near as dumb as Dolan.
Well, here's a bit of good news:  
Anakim : 6/24/2022 1:47 am : link
Knicks signed Dominican PG Jean Montero. I remember some early mocks had him go in the first round.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: The protection on these picks kills them...  
giantstock : 6/24/2022 1:55 am : link
In comment 15740027 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
In comment 15740019 larryflower37 said:


Quote:






We have to stop with the Randle contract. He signed cheap coming off a career year.


Noo - "WE" don't. They blew it with him. They made the wrong move. They get paid to be right. Let's stop with the excuses.

I'm with you though that this year they can't do much. And please no Irving.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: The protection on these picks kills them...  
giantstock : 6/24/2022 2:05 am : link
In comment 15740077 giantstock said:
Quote:
In comment 15740027 robbieballs2003 said:


Quote:


In comment 15740019 larryflower37 said:


Quote:






We have to stop with the Randle contract. He signed cheap coming off a career year.



Noo - "WE" don't. They blew it with him. They made the wrong move. They get paid to be right. Let's stop with the excuses.

I'm with you though that this year they can't do much. And please no Irving.


And please no Brunson.
Knicks  
BigBlueDent : 6/24/2022 2:15 am : link
Should have just caved to Pat Riley's demand to be in control of basketball operations way back when
SI article on Montero  
Anakim : 6/24/2022 2:34 am : link
.
Link - ( New Window )
RE: RE: RE: Knicks are getting a lot of criticism  
Giantfan21 : 6/24/2022 4:23 am : link
In comment 15740075 giantstock said:
Quote:
In comment 15740073 Giantfan21 said:


Quote:


In comment 15740071 Breeze_94 said:


Quote:


or getting DNP for a stubborn coach who cant adapt to the modern NBA.





While I agree the FO has been blundering but whenever I hear this nonsense that you stated above - you lunatics make me laugh. SO the prior year he is COY and now the next year he is a stubborn idiot?

Yeah him not giving those young guys those extra minutes really would've made a difference. Yeah right.

The problem is the players. Not the coach. The problem is some of you listen too much to the NY media who are near as dumb as Dolan.


Thibs is a regular season coach. He plays for the regular season by playing his best players maximum amount of minutes and grinding them into dust as the season wears on. Rj got injured because of Thibs stupidity this past year where he was in the game with 15 seconds left and the game was over and ended up spraining his ankle.

The 1 thing i will give Thibs credit for is he squeezes every ounce out of his roster but that also causes him to wear out his welcome quickly as he did previously both with the Timberwolves and Bulls . What works in the beginning of his tenure gets tiring as he continues to coach and eventually players grow tired of him and tune out his message.

Thibs also is responsible for watching Randle Iso ball and watching him hijack the offense all season long grinding the offense to a halt while the rest of the roster plays best at a much faster pace.

LAst not but not least, Thibs hates playing young players . Obi was buried on the bench all season until the final few games where he started as Randle was " out " and he went off . Quickley looked much better at the end of the season when he was given more responsibility as lead guard. Mcbrride was buried on the bench all season. Even Rj who played a lot of minutes went through a lot of spurts during the game not touching the ball while Randle and Burks played their 2 man game and Thibs did nothing to stop it or have the ball go through Rj instead.

He had an awful season as head coach and frankly should have been fired for how bad of a job he did . Playing the young guys more minutes and giving them a more important role might not have gotten them more wins ( it might have though ) but it sure as hell would help with their player development as opposed to developing Burks , Noel, Walker, and all the other useless Vets while missing the playoffs anyway and ending up with the 11th pick that got the team nowhere .

So yeah i stand by what i said . Stubborn , hard headed coach who is lucky to still have a job and should enjoy it because he will never get another job again after this 1. I didnt even mention his refusal to try to go small at times with his insistence of always needing a lumbering big out there or his out of bounds plays or out of timeout plays

RE: Rose wants to give Rick Brunson's son generational wealth  
Optimus-NY : 6/24/2022 5:09 am : link
In comment 15739747 moespree said:
Quote:
It's really as simple as that. Rick was his first client and Leon held Jalen 3 days after he was born.

Forget about all that doing your job stuff for big ol' Leo. This is just taking care of and paying off your guys.


+infinity and beyooooond!!!
RE: RE: Leon will clarify in the post-draft presser.  
Optimus-NY : 6/24/2022 5:52 am : link
In comment 15739938 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
In comment 15739931 bceagle05 said:


Quote:


.



People love downplaying this but I find this to be strangest thing. This isn’t why the Knicks are bad, but how does Leon Rose not do one legit presser or even interview in 2.5 years ? Very very odd.


I brought this up before, but nyguants16 loves to defend Rose.
Correct me if I'm wrong. The Knicks gave up pick 11 and several 2nd  
Ira : 6/24/2022 5:55 am : link
round picks to receive 3 protected 1st round picks which should be available between 2025 and 2028. One or more of those may be used in future trades. They also dump Kemba and get $18 m in cap space. All in all, I think the value is there, but we'll have to wait a while to see it come through.
RE: RE: Adam Silver looks like Nosferatu  
Optimus-NY : 6/24/2022 5:59 am : link
In comment 15739967 djm said:
Quote:
In comment 15739661 Optimus-NY said:


Quote:


.



Lolol


It appears as if the entire night was all about  
The_Boss : 6/24/2022 6:00 am : link
Jalen Brunson. They must be pretty sure he’s coming. These are the Knicks, mind you. If they’re left standing with a bag of money and no Brunson, they’ll have earned the ridicule to follow.
RE: RE: RE: Adam Silver looks like Nosferatu  
The_Boss : 6/24/2022 6:01 am : link
In comment 15740087 Optimus-NY said:
Quote:
In comment 15739967 djm said:


Quote:


In comment 15739661 Optimus-NY said:


Quote:


.



Lolol





Surprised nobody mentions Mr. Mackey from South Park when looking for a Silver look alike.
RE: Yeah that's possible...  
Optimus-NY : 6/24/2022 6:10 am : link
In comment 15740026 moze1021 said:
Quote:
On related note...would be cool if NBA got rid of the ability to put protection on the picks. I think it's just dumb



The NBA is weird and gimmicky.
So about last night...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 6/24/2022 6:13 am : link
Yeah, um...I guess there's some master plan?
RE: Lol, all we do is accumulate picks (to use for the big trade) only  
Optimus-NY : 6/24/2022 6:15 am : link
In comment 15740031 CooperDash said:
Quote:
to end up using them to get out of our own bad trades….to accumulate more draft picks (heavily protected) so we can AGAIN use them for the big trade.

Rinse…repeat.

It’s funny to read people defend these picks like they are gold. If we are going with the thought that the talent in the second half of the first round isn’t very valuable, then these picks suck. At least for the next two drafts. The third year is a little better but those players are too far away for any GM to give a shit.

You guys are fooling yourselves. We’ll do nothing with these picks. Just like with all other other picks we’ve accumulated. I’m pretty confident on that. Wake me up when this FO does anything of any value.


It's basically Waiting for Godot.
RE: Knicks  
moze1021 : 6/24/2022 6:19 am : link
In comment 15740079 BigBlueDent said:
Quote:
Should have just caved to Pat Riley's demand to be in control of basketball operations way back when


So many bad turning points, very few good ones.

But they had shots to be good since then.

Donnie Walsh had a plan, was executing it, then LeBron pulled the "announce going to Miami from NY 'burbs" crap... and then scrambling ensued. Then the team was being built OK, then traded the farm for Melo when he was going to come the next offseason anyway. Just bad gambles over and over...

The clearing space thing worked back then, but there is no LeBron out there in the next few years than can change everything..
Can someone recap everything?  
Eli Wilson : 6/24/2022 6:32 am : link
Too many pages to read through. Thanks.
RE: RE: Knicks are getting a lot of criticism  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 6/24/2022 6:34 am : link
In comment 15740073 Giantfan21 said:
Quote:


Using the number 11 pick to clear cap space to fix the mess YOU made is why they are getting criticism and it is very well warranted. Every single FA signing last season looks terrible in hindsight and to be honest most people said they were horrible at the time itself.

As far as the roster, they deserve tons of criticism for that as well. They have a majority of the roster are young players who are more talented then the older vets but are stuck scrambling for minutes either coming off the bench or getting DNP for a stubborn coach who cant adapt to the modern NBA.

This whole front office deserves every ounce of criticism they receive


I would love to say you’re wrong about all of this, but…

The most frustrating part for me is the coach and his unwillingness or inability to get the most out of these kids. My kingdom for Kenny Atkinson.
RE: Can someone recap everything?  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 6/24/2022 6:36 am : link
In comment 15740095 Eli Wilson said:
Quote:
Too many pages to read through. Thanks.


Eli...I am still at a loss as to what we are doing.
RE: Can someone recap everything?  
KevinBBWC : 6/24/2022 6:48 am : link
In comment 15740095 Eli Wilson said:
Quote:
Too many pages to read through. Thanks.


Fred Katz
@FredKatz
·
7h
Knicks summary, per source:

TRADE 1
OKC receives: No 11

NYK receives:
2023 DEN 1st
2023 WAS 1st
2023 DET 1st
(all protected)

TRADE 2
CHA receives:
2023 DEN 1st (protected)
4 2nds

NYK receives:
No. 13

TRADE 3
DET receives:
Kemba
No 13

NYK receives:
2025 MIL 1st (protected)

Basically traded out of 1st round for cap space.

Jake Fischer
@JakeLFischer
Knicks get from OKC, per source:

2023 first rounder from DET that's 1-18 protected through 2024, 1-13 in '25, 1-11 in '26, 1-9 in 2027.

2023 first from WAS that's 1-14, 1-12 in 2024, 1-10 in '25, 1-8 in 2026.

2023 first from DEN, protected 1-14 through 2025.
Knicks Trades - ( New Window )
So I guess we are targeting  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 6/24/2022 6:50 am : link
Brunson.
im more positive then most....  
Italianju : 6/24/2022 6:53 am : link
but the knicks deserve criticism here. Whether the value is there or not that walker trade is bad. Keep the 23 first instead of getting the 25 first and keep the 4 seconds. Shit id be ok if they kept Duran or had asked CHA to take Griffin there. And just giving up assets to move salary, that others mentioned you just signed to contracts last year, is not a good look. Especially as we are clearing this supposedly for Brunson. This isnt some Lebron/Wade or even Kyrie/Durant. We are giving assets up so we can get Jalen Brunson.

Are some knick fans completely over the top with how pathetic we are and blah blah blah, of course. But its really hard to look at last night as any sort of win.
Did Knicks fans get clarity last night???  
Rick in Dallas : 6/24/2022 6:55 am : link
I wish I could post the picture of Stephen A last night on ABC when the pick at 11 was announced...
How valuable is the 11th pick?  
George from PA : 6/24/2022 7:00 am : link
3 protected 1st round picks which should be available between 2025 and 2028, when HS players are available again.

They also dump Kemba and get $18 m in cap space which will allow signing a couple of FA.

I get why we are all frustrated with the Knicks.

Maybe once in our lifetime.....but not for awhile



im sure this was asked but where does the 18  
Italianju : 6/24/2022 7:03 am : link
mill come from? Kemba made 9 next year and the 11th pick was slotted for what like 4 mill?
RE: How valuable is the 11th pick?  
shyster : 6/24/2022 7:06 am : link
In comment 15740108 George from PA said:
Quote:
3 protected 1st round picks which should be available between 2025 and 2028, when HS players are available again.

They also dump Kemba and get $18 m in cap space which will allow signing a couple of FA.



Knicks still don't have enough cap space for Brunson, so those first round picks are very possibly going out the door in the next week attached to another bad vet contract.
also a better...  
Italianju : 6/24/2022 7:08 am : link
person then me should start a new recap thread, this one is too long, lol.
i will say that...  
Italianju : 6/24/2022 7:10 am : link
i want to see the next couple weeks. We now have what 4 first round picks next draft? 2 in 2025 and a bunch of seconds still. If we use that just to dump Noel then this FO continues to disappoint, but if there are players available in trade then maybe there is a bigger plan here. That is a ton of ammo we could offer a team.
The Knicks have plenty of assets..  
Sean : 6/24/2022 7:25 am : link
Just don’t spend for the sake of spending.
Quote:
Alan Hahn
@alanhahn
·
5h
The first round, outlined.
Basically the #Knicks now own five first round picks in 2023. And opened up cap space to sign a free agent this July.
Well they have  
TommyWiseau : 6/24/2022 7:32 am : link
To unload Noel/Burks somehow and now that teams know we put our eggs in one basket.. those first round picks will be demanded by these teams
they have 4 firsts...  
Italianju : 6/24/2022 7:36 am : link
next year not 5.

If we dont use these picks just to unload salary ill feel better about last night. But it sure sounds like we will use these picks to unload salary, ha.
RE: Well they have  
GFAN52 : 6/24/2022 7:36 am : link
In comment 15740120 TommyWiseau said:
Quote:
To unload Noel/Burks somehow and now that teams know we put our eggs in one basket.. those first round picks will be demanded by these teams


This dumb FO has to attach draft picks to players they should never have signed in the first place. The idiot owner Dolan should have hired a competent GM like OKC's Presti to run the Knicks, but he'll never do that.
RE: RE: Well they have  
TommyWiseau : 6/24/2022 7:42 am : link
In comment 15740123 GFAN52 said:
Quote:
In comment 15740120 TommyWiseau said:


Quote:


To unload Noel/Burks somehow and now that teams know we put our eggs in one basket.. those first round picks will be demanded by these teams



This dumb FO has to attach draft picks to players they should never have signed in the first place. The idiot owner Dolan should have hired a competent GM like OKC's Presti to run the Knicks, but he'll never do that.


Agreed, we should have never brought back Burks, Rose and Noel on longer then one year deals. Maybe Noel earned a longer deal but we see how that worked out this year. Bad moves by bad front office personnel. They knew they wanted to resign Robinson this year, where did they think the money was going to come from?
I just hope the  
TommyWiseau : 6/24/2022 7:54 am : link
Plan is bigger then just going after Brunson and resigning Robinson
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