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NFT: NBA Draft Day- Knicks Chat

Reeses Pieces : 6/23/2022 8:42 am
Many of the recent Knicks rumors have lost some steam from a few days ago.

Do the Knicks put all their chips on the table, cutting a deal with the Kings for Jaden Ivey?

A possible Malcom Brogdon deal is said to not include the 11th pick.

Will the Knicks clear $25M in cap space to sign Jalen Brunson?

Where does Burks and Noel land if dealt?

Julius Randle is never in national trade rumors.

If NY stays at 11 and drafts AJ Griffin, how will he history of knee issues fair?

Dejounte Murray was rumored in a possible John Collins deal. This is something the Knicks should investigate.

A lot of Knicks fans on Twitter are down on Leon Rose and Co. Many stating that he is just taking care of CAA, family and friends.

We will have some more clarity in a few hours.

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Griffin shot 43.7% on pull-ups and 43.2% on pull up 3's  
Strahan91 : 6/23/2022 10:03 am : link
so he's not just a catch and shoot if wide open guy
Walker and Noel dont make any money...  
Italianju : 6/23/2022 10:04 am : link
i know it sounds like a lot, but this year they were the 142nd and 157th highest paid players in the NBA making below the MLE. They also are only signed for this upcoming year. It will not take a first to move them unless its a heavily protected first, and honestly i bet you could trade both to a team using just one highly protected first.

Long, long time ago Knicks fan  
M.S. : 6/23/2022 10:06 am : link

who checked out on the team years ago.

Just wanted to say I gotta admire the enthusiasm of those BBIers who still follow the team!

One thing seems clear through this offseason  
Kmed6000 : 6/23/2022 10:08 am : link
and that's nobody wants Randle. I get his contract isn't that bad, but there are no rumors of teams being interested. I'd move him if he has any positive value(he probably doesn't), but even if he's net neutral(salary dump), I think I'd rather keep him to start the season.

Randle's value is at it's lowest, IMO. He works really hard in the offseason and I think he motivates his teammates to work hard too, in the offseason. I think we would be better off hoping he comes back motivated as he seems to do better as the underdog rather than when there are high expectations. Let him build up some positive value and then trade him.
Begely was on a radio show  
nygiants16 : 6/23/2022 10:09 am : link
and asked if he thought Ivey would be a Knick by the end of the day? he said yes
The Brunson thing confounds me.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 6/23/2022 10:09 am : link
But, you don't need Brunson to be Chris Paul. You need him to be 2020 derrick rose that can stay healthy.

20-21 rose was 15 PPG / 5 Assists, attack the rim and hit your free throws, and be a reliable 3PT shooter.

Brunson was that last year, though I don't know how good a defender he is.

I see how it might work. It's going to be an overpay if it happens, but free agents deals are overpays.

Any  
AcidTest : 6/23/2022 10:11 am : link
interest in Coby White? The Bulls are apparently interested in trading him and the 18th pick.
This team has a ton of  
Dave on the UWS : 6/23/2022 10:11 am : link
JAGS on it. Hopefully, Rose recognizes that. This is NOT a winning roster, management has to realize that. Similar to the Giants, upgrading the talent level on the team- regardless of position, is job #1!
RE: Griffin shot 43.7% on pull-ups and 43.2% on pull up 3's  
Greg from LI : 6/23/2022 10:11 am : link
In comment 15738695 Strahan91 said:
Quote:
so he's not just a catch and shoot if wide open guy


On how many attempts?
RE: Begely was on a radio show  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 6/23/2022 10:12 am : link
In comment 15738700 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
and asked if he thought Ivey would be a Knick by the end of the day? he said yes


From his lips to God's ear.
RE: This team has a ton of  
Kmed6000 : 6/23/2022 10:12 am : link
In comment 15738703 Dave on the UWS said:
Quote:
JAGS on it. Hopefully, Rose recognizes that. This is NOT a winning roster, management has to realize that. Similar to the Giants, upgrading the talent level on the team- regardless of position, is job #1!


This is about as obvious as it gets. Everyone knows that we lack top end talent, but the question has always been how to get that talent. We've seemed to have drafted better in years past, but we have terrible luck and no star wants to come here....yet.
RE: I never said Griffin can't shoot  
Jan in DC : 6/23/2022 10:13 am : link
In comment 15738690 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
But that's literally all he does. He's 100% dependent on being left open for jumpers, doesn't create anything for himself, and is an appallingly bad defender.


I was listening to the Athletic pod guys break down Griffin yesterday and that was the thing that stuck out to me. They were really really down on his defensive potential.

They highlighted that he had an insanely low usage rate, but shined with limited opportunities on offense.
16 thanks  
Carl in CT : 6/23/2022 10:13 am : link
I know they are looking hard there. Remember a month ago I was told the standard list but also Hardy. I really feel (if a trade down) that’s a player with a huge upside and potential bust pick they were going to roll dice with. I’ll take Ivey though. Things are so quiet. Everyone who knows anything were told any leaks will be investigated and termination will occur because of insubordination. That’s how serious things are so I expect something to occur unless it blows up at last minute either a trade up or trade involving players.
AJ Griffin is hardly the end all be all.  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 6/23/2022 10:14 am : link
Let’s look at the other players likely to be available in this area. I’m a huge Jeremy Sochan fan, but am I supposed to trust the people who couldn’t figure out how to play Obi to get Sochan on the floor? Am I supposed to believe that Thibs is progressive enough to do something like playing Sochan at the 5? I like Tari Eason a lot. While I don’t trust Thibs to make it fit, I’d have no problem with him. I’m not interested in Johnny Davis or Agbaji, although both are better fits than most of the players likely to be available when/if the Knicks select. I’m not remotely interested in a center.
I do think it’s Begley’s opinion  
Carl in CT : 6/23/2022 10:14 am : link
I can’t imagine someone talking to him.
interesting that....  
Italianju : 6/23/2022 10:16 am : link
they are so adament about no leaks. I mean im sure most teams try to do that, but that seems aggressive. Hopefully that means something is on the table.
Shockey  
Carl in CT : 6/23/2022 10:18 am : link
Problems with this team isn’t defense or our bench. In my opinion (can be argued) is out starting 5 are not knock down shooters (even though percentage says otherwise) and are near the bottom athletically. Positions 1-5 in aggregate. We need to address both these needs before we are able to make a run.
Any hope we move Randle tonight?  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 6/23/2022 10:18 am : link
That'd be nice.
Hitting on Sims last year...  
Jan in DC : 6/23/2022 10:18 am : link
and hitting on Mitch in the 2nd round really makes me feel like you can find a value big in the second if you want. I think in terms of positional value, look for a wing player in the first and then just snag an athletic guy in the second.

Or bring back Mitch. I'd be fine with that too.
When you don't get the top tier talent in the draft,  
Kmed6000 : 6/23/2022 10:21 am : link
I feel like you need to draft guys that have elite talent. I know nothing about him, but Griffin has elite shooting ability. I'm ok drafting a guy like that and hope other aspects develop. He's also got good size.
RE: RE: Griffin shot 43.7% on pull-ups and 43.2% on pull up 3's  
Strahan91 : 6/23/2022 10:22 am : link
In comment 15738704 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 15738695 Strahan91 said:


Quote:


so he's not just a catch and shoot if wide open guy



On how many attempts?

151
By the way  
Carl in CT : 6/23/2022 10:24 am : link
And I’m not blowing smoke up his ass. But some of the things that the poster AR…. Says is pretty accurate of what is being discussed. I’m just letting you guys know (that without knowing him or her) personally I think they could be dialed in. I’ll go on record saying that. I also said (awhile back) I know someone at the agency that’s dialed in and someone in the finance part of the Knicks. That’s where my intel comes from. Not the day to day but if it gets serious where they start calculating numbers that’s when I know.
RE: When you don't get the top tier talent in the draft,  
Ten Ton Hammer : 6/23/2022 10:27 am : link
In comment 15738720 Kmed6000 said:
Quote:
I feel like you need to draft guys that have elite talent. I know nothing about him, but Griffin has elite shooting ability. I'm ok drafting a guy like that and hope other aspects develop. He's also got good size.


I somewhat feel the same way. Find the guy that has an elite skill at something and built off that.

I'm not saying Griffin is elite, because it looks like a limited sample size.

Who knows. But if you can knock down shots, there's a place for you in the NBA. Joe Harris is only on the court to knock down 3s, for example.
.  
DanMetroMan : 6/23/2022 10:28 am : link
Report: Cavs have had conversations with Spurs on trade for Dejounte Murray
Ivey would be great but  
widmerseyebrow : 6/23/2022 10:29 am : link
getting someone decent to start at point and moving Randle to free up Obi would get me excited enough to watch next season.
RE: Ivey would be great but  
DanMetroMan : 6/23/2022 10:32 am : link
In comment 15738732 widmerseyebrow said:
Quote:
getting someone decent to start at point and moving Randle to free up Obi would get me excited enough to watch next season.


Sadly... easier said than done. The FA market pretty much sucks. Hollinger ranks Ricky Rubio and Delon Wright the two best PG's after Irving and Brunson.
Remember this also  
Carl in CT : 6/23/2022 10:33 am : link
Leon Rose Sam still works at CAA. He has not tweeted since 5/22. 4 of his last 5 tweets though were about Jalen Brunson. (To squeeze more $ maybe) Knicks maybe we will see.
I  
DanMetroMan : 6/23/2022 10:33 am : link
don't want Greg to murder me but Tyus Jones is probably the most interesting non-Brunson option.
Sorry  
Carl in CT : 6/23/2022 10:34 am : link
Son (Sam)
RE: I  
Greg from LI : 6/23/2022 10:35 am : link
In comment 15738737 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
don't want Greg to murder me but Tyus Jones is probably the most interesting non-Brunson option.


They're gonna sign Jones and draft Griffin just to torture me.

As if being a Knicks fan wasn't torture enough, they're gonna turn the Knicks into the New York Dookies to boot.
If they are adament about no leaks  
nygiants16 : 6/23/2022 10:36 am : link
Speculation would be they have a deal in place for 4 if Ivey is there and they dont want it out there
Tyrus  
Carl in CT : 6/23/2022 10:36 am : link
Played well widen Ja was out. Can he do it as lead guard? We can find better options I believe.
Tyrus  
Carl in CT : 6/23/2022 10:38 am : link
Like Ty Ty are not athletic enough for me. We need a hell of a lot more athletes.
Just  
DanMetroMan : 6/23/2022 10:39 am : link
to be clear, I'm talking strictly about the FA market. I'd rank Jones 3rd after Irving and Brunson, it's a BAD group.
If Paolo goes #1  
Carl in CT : 6/23/2022 10:44 am : link
As betting sites say, watch Presti take Smith at #2. Ivey will then go to Houston in my opinion (No PG there) and things will be fucked up.
RE: AJ Griffin is hardly the end all be all.  
NYG22 : 6/23/2022 10:44 am : link
In comment 15738711 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
Let’s look at the other players likely to be available in this area. I’m a huge Jeremy Sochan fan, but am I supposed to trust the people who couldn’t figure out how to play Obi to get Sochan on the floor? Am I supposed to believe that Thibs is progressive enough to do something like playing Sochan at the 5? I like Tari Eason a lot. While I don’t trust Thibs to make it fit, I’d have no problem with him. I’m not interested in Johnny Davis or Agbaji, although both are better fits than most of the players likely to be available when/if the Knicks select. I’m not remotely interested in a center.


Perhaps I am wrong about Sochan but I see a guy who is an ordinary athlete with subpar skills. His intangibles are his strength. But I think he caps out at a bench guy who provides a nice shot in the arm energy wise.


Whereas, I see Eason as having real (plus) physical ability.

Do you disagree on the Sochan assessment?
betting sites...  
Italianju : 6/23/2022 10:49 am : link
have moved back to heavy on Jabari Smith.
I can’t bet on draft position in CT  
Carl in CT : 6/23/2022 10:51 am : link
But Johnny Davis at 6.5????? I’d throw a few $$$$!! On the over there. That’s a no brainer if I ever seen one.
Jabari  
DanMetroMan : 6/23/2022 10:57 am : link
Smith now says "I'd be surprised if I don't go #1" (he's a very humble kid, so this sounds like this is what he's hearing and not being braggadocios)
Banchero > Smith  
Reeses Pieces : 6/23/2022 11:00 am : link
The Magic did well drafting Franz Wagner last year. They are about to take an L this year.
Ideal NYK off-season for me  
NYG22 : 6/23/2022 11:11 am : link
1.Trade Randle anywhere e.g. to Indy for Brogden; include Dallas 2023 1st and Cam Reddish as incentive. Cap savings = 6mm.

2. Trade Noel and Burks to Sacto for a heavily protected 2nd (basically, a ham sandwich). Both modest and expiring deals and useful players for Sacto and if including good prospect and Euro-Stash Roku Jokubaitas as incentive is necessary, then so be it. Cap savings = 19mm.

3. Draft Tari Eason

4. Sign Jalen Brunson

5. MLE to Mo Bamba or Mitch Robinson

Roster then looks like this:

PG: Brunson, IQ, Rose

SG: Brogden, Grimes

SF: RJB, Fournier

PF: Obi, Eason

C: Mo or Mitch, Sims

That's a smart, hard working, young team with .500 record upside and no onerous contracts.
Couple things:  
Mike in NJ : 6/23/2022 11:18 am : link
First, I am actually surprised there is so much debate about who the top pick is going to be this year. I think Smith is a no brainer - he is one of the rare guys that when you watch the college game, he just stands out as far and away a class above the other guys on the court. I didn't feel that way about Holmgren or Banchero at all, don't think they are in the same class.


On Ivey, I don't think anything happens until Sacramento is on the clock. You can't make the deal if you are the Knicks until you know Ivey is still available unless you are just as comfortable settling for Banchero or Holmgren if Ivey some how goes top 3.

In terms of compensation, they should be willing to offer 11, a top 4 protected next year, and either Toppin or Quickley. It would be a bummer to give up either of those guys, and would be great if it could be Grimes, but if we are stuck with Randle then you'd might as well move Toppin while his value is still relatively high. Ivey removes the sting of losing IQ in the backcourt, especially if the plan is to pursue Brunson.
Attaching a 1st to trade Randle is a terrible idea, IMO.  
Kmed6000 : 6/23/2022 11:35 am : link
Buy low, sell high. See if he can build his value back up. Terrible asset management and something that has been a driving force behind our failures in the past 20 years. Signing faux stars and then jettisoning them by attaching assets to them has gotten us in so much trouble. Only for that player to add value to their new team.

We need to figure out how to make Randle an asset that teams want.
RE: Attaching a 1st to trade Randle is a terrible idea, IMO.  
NYG22 : 6/23/2022 11:39 am : link
In comment 15738787 Kmed6000 said:
Quote:
Buy low, sell high. See if he can build his value back up. Terrible asset management and something that has been a driving force behind our failures in the past 20 years. Signing faux stars and then jettisoning them by attaching assets to them has gotten us in so much trouble. Only for that player to add value to their new team.

We need to figure out how to make Randle an asset that teams want.


Everything you say here is true in general, except in this case Randle is poisoning the team and blocking the development of Obi and to an extent, RJB. This team just cannot endure another season like what he did to destroy it last year. There are just too many good young players whose future depends on a good culture and Randle's presence ensures a toxic culture.
I understand that.  
Kmed6000 : 6/23/2022 11:41 am : link
However...

1. He works very hard on his craft(in the offseason). He took Sims under his wing and getting him into better shape.

2. He seems to do better as an underdog rather than when there are high expectations on him.


I think the smart move is to hope he comes back in 2020 form or close to it and then trade him.
Hollinger  
DanMetroMan : 6/23/2022 11:47 am : link
suggests Detroit could potentially now offer Brunson a max sheet (Bridges and Ayton also mentioned)
RE: Hollinger  
Jan in DC : 6/23/2022 11:53 am : link
In comment 15738797 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
suggests Detroit could potentially now offer Brunson a max sheet (Bridges and Ayton also mentioned)


That's what I thought when they opened up that cap space. I haven't watched much of the Pistons, but wonder how well Brunson and Cade would play together.
Is there a real path for the Knicks  
Keaton028 : 6/23/2022 11:53 am : link
to get Donovan Mitchell? He’s the one guy I want. I’m not necessarily interested in Super Teams, but I’d love for solid players to start gravitating towards the Knicks. I player like Mitchell may have enough influence to start pulling players to MSG and make us contenders again.
I feel like you guys discuss al these interesting scenarios  
Jim in Forest Hills : 6/23/2022 11:55 am : link
but nothing ever happens. I'd be shocked if they don't stay put and pick up a guy.
RE: Banchero > Smith  
Greg from LI : 6/23/2022 11:57 am : link
In comment 15738757 Reeses Pieces said:
Quote:
The Magic did well drafting Franz Wagner last year. They are about to take an L this year.


Nope. Banchero is soft as a feather.
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