So what did you all think?
For me it's "what could have been" with better writing and direction. Even with all its fan service I thought it was mostly boring and an action sequence that should have been incredibly exciting and moving was just ok.
You all enjoy the finale/show?
The battle was pretty fierce and shows even more why Vader's line to Kenobi in Star Wars rings true.
With all that said now they created a huge plot hole. Whenever Vader wants to flush out Obi-wan all he has to do is kidnap Leia again.
"You served my father in the clone wars" ... "and we also had a deep meaningful relationship when you saved me from the Empire when I was 10"
Anakin Skywalker built C3PO
The Clone Wars are all Boba Fetts
Chewbacca is Yoda's long lost friend
Darth Maul gets cut in half, reappears 30 years later as The Godfather
TATOOINE ALL THE TIME. I thought this was a backwater planet where nothing happened?
Rey is a Palpatine
The Inquisitor was a youngling
The Mandalorian is flying an Episode I ship
Young, naive 20 year old Luke who thought his father was a navigator was actually chased by Inquisitors when he was 10
They just can't help themselves.
That show could have easily been done without Luke or Leia, introduced NEW characters and stories and still gotten them to the big Vader/Obi Wan rematch.
I enjoyed the first two episodes, but it went down hill fast. And I thought the special effects were really bad for a Star Wars production.
Vader's voice going back and forth between Hayden Christiansen and James Earl Jones.
"Hello there."
"Then I must do as I must."
Qui-Gon
What bugged me...
Palpatine's makeup looked bad
I guess it didn't.
I have no interest in watching a mediocre series that opens up all sorts of plot holes with ANH.
I think I am pretty much done with SW. The sequels sucked, Solo was meh, Bobba Fett overall overall wasn't good (Temuera Morrison is just not a good actor) and now this.
James Earle Jones and Billy Dee Williams are great actors and most importantly have screen presence. Lucas was a horrible people director but he had an eye for producing and casting.
seriously. just say it, dont use trigger words
I stopped watching it after episode 2. It seems like a lot of people did in the Star Wars community.
And I did prove to be correct. From what I am told, Obi Wan didn't save Luke. Reva did but deciding not kill him.
Also, there are many videos out there on how the plot simply makes no sense at all, that it is a convoluted mess.
Disney + numbers between this and Marvel are not going to be good.
I can say that I saw the last Star Wars movie in the theatre more out of the need to check a box to say I saw it just to put the movies to bed. I have not seen it since. But I'm also not 8 years old anymore, I have a job, bills, etc. So sometimes you need to separate the nostalgia a bit.
That said, I came in with low expectations for this series. I thought it was ok. Not great, not terrible. I was more bothered by Obi-Wan getting his ass handed to him and dragged thru the fire by Vader and was glad to see Obi-Wan kick his ass in the finale. If he didn't, then Vader's line when they met on the Death Star 10 years later made no sense.
Introducing new characters in and around the story is fine. You need to try to expand the universe a bit. I love watching the Red Letter Media guys on youtube who do a great job in breaking down Star Wars. As they are more in my age range as Gen X'ers who grew up with it, they have a good grasp on what Star Wars was, and how it has turned into a corporate money grab, but Disney needs to make their money back (and more) after buying it from Lucas.
I'm kind of happy they didn't go overboard with CGI explosions, and a billion storm troopers, and lightsabers all over. So some of the more simple sets and story lines (with the chase scene w/ Leia and Flea being a joke however) were fine for me.
I will say, that loose end of Obi-Wan and Leia agreeing to never talk about this saving or else they'd both be in trouble didn't really make much sense to me. Vader already knew about it since he was there. Leia sent the message to "General Kenobi" because Vader was coming. The secret was already out. But whatever, I kind of tried more to turn my brain off, enjoyed listening to James Earl Jones AI voice and saw it for what it was, content filler for Disney + that was there to keep their subscriber base from going the way of Netflix by pumping the Star Wars fan base to keep their credit cards being charged.
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to insist that they were going to ruin Obi Wan's character. And so far no one has suggested that Kathleen Kennedy be shot, so I'm seeing some progress.
I stopped watching it after episode 2. It seems like a lot of people did in the Star Wars community.
And I did prove to be correct. From what I am told, Obi Wan didn't save Luke. Reva did but deciding not kill him.
Also, there are many videos out there on how the plot simply makes no sense at all, that it is a convoluted mess.
Disney + numbers between this and Marvel are not going to be good.
You did make that assumption, but it also came with the certainty that it meant destroying Obi Wan's legacy as they did Luke's, which was only strengthened by the finale and filled in his arc following Ep3.
My bigger issue is with the tired ideological talking points. You can criticize the show without it. It was far from great and I had plenty to nitpick, in fact, I ultimately would've preferred they didn't do the show at all.
Disney's numbers will be fine - its not like they are the only streaming service that is having issues.
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to insist that they were going to ruin Obi Wan's character. And so far no one has suggested that Kathleen Kennedy be shot, so I'm seeing some progress.
I stopped watching it after episode 2. It seems like a lot of people did in the Star Wars community.
And I did prove to be correct. From what I am told, Obi Wan didn't save Luke. Reva did but deciding not kill him.
Also, there are many videos out there on how the plot simply makes no sense at all, that it is a convoluted mess.
Disney + numbers between this and Marvel are not going to be good.
what disney community? the subreddits loved the finale and a bunch of the show.
His character arc was to redeem himself by protecting Luke. He failed. Reva saved him.
Not ideological at all. Disney doesn't understand Star Wars cannon at all. It doesn't matter to them.
The people who like this drivel are simply happy with anything labeled Star Wars without concern about what came before.
Beyond all that, it was poorly acted. The story lines made no sense. Action scenes were comical and the CGI was terrible.
The #s will prove me out. It was a failure.
Big difference.
His character arc was to redeem himself by protecting Luke. He failed. Reva saved him.
That's not really correct. He partially redeems this by making up for Luke by protecting Leia and he also forced Reva into her ultimate downfall by bringing Vader to her. Another part of his arc was getting over the events of the PT and the massacre of the Jedi. But, you didn't watch the show, so I don't expect you to agree or understand
Big difference.
To be fair, the Star Wars community hates everything now.
Obi-Wan numbers have been fine, third biggest on Disney+ I think?
My opinion stands, I thought it was a big whiff. The biggest mistake they made was putting the twins in the show.
Eric from BBI : Admin : 6/1/2022 12:05 pm : link
a feeling that intent was to destroy Obi-wan, like they did with Luke. If that's where this is going, I'm not watching it.
It's stunning how many franchises have been handed off to people who hate the original story material and just want to wreck the franchise.
Eric from BBI : Admin : 6/3/2022 1:56 pm : link
I understand what you are saying, but the writers don't have that kind of talent. I'm telling you right now, the intent is to deconstruct Obi-wan. To the point where you won't even think he is the same aging man you see again in a New Hope.
That is certainly not the case at the conclusion of the finale.
You keep alleging bias here, but the bias seems to be to defend everything Disney does. I haven't watched the series, but I've seen videos breaking down the series and it is embarrassing.
Again, you don't have to believe me. There is reason why the stock is tanking.
But as a stand-alone series, I thought it was a fun and less hokey than the prequels. Plus more Darth Vader!
You and I disagree.
Just thinking about it for a moment...using some of the same elements...they could have avoided these gaps and done a story along these lines:
Show opens with inquisitors hunting a jedi on tatooine. The jedi spots Obi Wan and approaches him. They then have the same kind of "forget it/its over" interaction. Despite this, Obi Wan starts watching the Jedi from a distance, still torn over whether to intervene or not. He then sees people from the Path help the Jedi and has his eyes opened to the fact that there are more Jedi out there than he realized, people are resisting, and the inquisitors are hunting force sensitive children. A "Little leia" character (that just isn't leia) is kidnapped and despite his misgiving, Obi Wan gets involved and through this has the same re-awakening or purpose. This quest can result in the same finale run-in (just one) with Vader, but it should end with Vader believing Obi-Wan is dead (and in a way that is believably ambiguous and not requiring Vader to simply say, "eh, that's probably good enough"). I'd skip the Reva story line (though no problem with the angry inquisitor aspect) and she should definitely not learn about Luke. Nobody should. Obi-wan returns to tatooine to go into hiding, but active hiding, as we see him helping the path grow.
You keep alleging bias here, but the bias seems to be to defend everything Disney does. I haven't watched the series, but I've seen videos breaking down the series and it is embarrassing.
Again, you don't have to believe me. There is reason why the stock is tanking.
I’m not alleging any bias. I pointed out Dave at the UWS thinks casting a black female is some sort of woke agenda, which says more about him than it does about anyone at Disney.
I didn’t like the show, I thought it was bad. I didn’t defend Star Wars, in fact I trashed it a few posts up. I don’t disagree it’s been almost entirely terrible since Disney bought it.
I am not defending Disney of anything. All I did was point out facts that it was the third biggest show on the service.
We all know you are more the alternative facts type of guy though.
Have you seen Disney+s catalog? There is hardly anything on there except for Star Wars and Marvel so saying it is third is actually an indictment.
Not even sure what your last comment means.
Vader’s line in Episode IV, “A tremor in the force. The last time I felt it was in the presence of my old master.” It got me thinking. Do they meet again over the next 10 yrs? I’m not sure why he would call Palpatine his old master. I think he might mean his old master is Obi-Wan.
His character arc was to redeem himself by protecting Luke. He failed. Reva saved him.
Not ideological at all. Disney doesn't understand Star Wars cannon at all. It doesn't matter to them.
The people who like this drivel are simply happy with anything labeled Star Wars without concern about what came before.
Beyond all that, it was poorly acted. The story lines made no sense. Action scenes were comical and the CGI was terrible.
The #s will prove me out. It was a failure.
The Mandolorian and Boba Fett were well liked, I think the last 3 movies were more a product of JJ Abrahms not doing a great job. As far as Marvel goes, I mean their success speaks for itself.
Fett was completely out of character...even the actor playing him said so publicly.
The rumors on Obi-Wan ended up all being true.
There is some sort of weird "thing" in corporate America now where it's "smart business" to piss on the base that made a franchise successful in the first place. It's almost as if they assume those people will watch regardless of how bad the product is, and they think by attracting new customers, they will grow the market.
When the opposite occurs, they can't seem to figure out why?
Who knew that bad story-telling, convoluted plots that don't make sense, destroying cannon/characters, bad acting causes issues?
From what I understand, Reva concocted a plot based on information that she could not have possibly known or how individuals would possibly react to achieve a pre-planned outcome. And you guys seem to be OK with that? It's like people are turning off their brains.
There is some sort of weird "thing" in corporate America now where it's "smart business" to piss on the base that made a franchise successful in the first place. It's almost as if they assume those people will watch regardless of how bad the product is, and they think by attracting new customers, they will grow the market.
I don't think this is true. If pissing off the base is the concern then why all the fan service? Callbacks to so many Star Wars moments like "Hello There!" I think the bigger issue is trying to please everyone and make the most money. And in doing so delivering a diluted product. Even with all that Mandalorian showed it could work, I just think Deborah Chow and the writers shit the bed.
She's a terrible villian/quasi-villian. She seems like someone you see on the bus irl rather than a Star Wars villian, who needs a cool ominous character design, costume, mask/makeup, effects etc., Yes Star Wars works at that basic level, its a space opera, Buck Rogers/Flash Gordon with a better budget. Probably a perfectly fine actor for a Hallmark after school special otherwise I guess.
Look, they knew they had a dog on their hands.
Before episode one was released, they tweeted out that anyone who didn't like the show was a racist.
It's not just a Disney thing, "toxic fandom" has become the new narrative used by companies who can't accept criticism (most of it justified).
In a nutshell, these companies hate their customers. They just want them to shut up and give up their $$$.
And movies just watching The Thing recently and you can't escape the feeling that they'll never be able to make movies like that anymore. And lol at the remake!
It's cynical, and has nothing to do with art, of course. It sucks.
If you are still looking to Star Wars to satisfy the itch of high-quality story telling, you're off the mark. I can take it for what it is at this point, and am still able to derive a certain amount of enjoyment from it - but I'm not asking too much from it at all either.
Dune, I think, was done very well. These things should only be movies.
Look, they knew they had a dog on their hands.
Before episode one was released, they tweeted out that anyone who didn't like the show was a racist.
It's not just a Disney thing, "toxic fandom" has become the new narrative used by companies who can't accept criticism (most of it justified).
In a nutshell, these companies hate their customers. They just want them to shut up and give up their $$$.
Matt M literally posted that Kathleen Kenney should be shot... that's not toxic? And you are claiming that the company hates their customers. It's just nonsense and it's obvious where your own bias is coming from.
And again, the people arguing you about this on the thread, none of them are waving their pom poms cheering this series on... the reception here has been lukewarm, but not nearly as bad as a select few of you have made it out to be.
It's cynical, and has nothing to do with art, of course. It sucks.
If you are still looking to Star Wars to satisfy the itch of high-quality story telling, you're off the mark. I can take it for what it is at this point, and am still able to derive a certain amount of enjoyment from it - but I'm not asking too much from it at all either.
Dune, I think, was done very well. These things should only be movies.
Who said "high quality" story telling. I'm just talking about basic solid storytelling that doesn't seem to have been created by a first-year film student.
Star Wars does hate their fan base. They repeatedly make comments on social media and on virtual setups that come back to haunt them. It's as if maladjusted 20-year olds are running the communications department.
It's cynical, and has nothing to do with art, of course. It sucks.
If you are still looking to Star Wars to satisfy the itch of high-quality story telling, you're off the mark. I can take it for what it is at this point, and am still able to derive a certain amount of enjoyment from it - but I'm not asking too much from it at all either.
Dune, I think, was done very well. These things should only be movies.
It makes sense from a dopes in suits exec and marketing department perspective, hell throw in lawyers. Try to appeal to the broadest demographic and make the most money.
Of course it doesn't make sense from the perspective of artistic and storytelling perspective and devotional fan perspective. A mule is a horse designed by committee.
I share a Disney+ account with family. I've told them that when - not if - Disney gets around to preventing us from sharing the account, i'm out.
The death of critical thinking is a tragedy.
He knows what he's doing... the "alternative facts" quip...the "it's obvious where your own bias is coming from"... he thinks he's being cute.
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are the accusations of political bias?
He knows what he's doing... the "alternative facts" quip...the "it's obvious where your own bias is coming from"... he thinks he's being cute.
Actually, that was Ben who called out the alternative facts quip.
And I was trying to make a genuine point, but I didn't come to battle politics or bring out the ban hammer. I won't push you on it again, because I don't want to get personal or cross that line and I do appreciate the years and service of your life that has gone into BBI. May the Force be with you, and Go Giants ✌️
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In comment 15739172 RicFlair said:
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are the accusations of political bias?
He knows what he's doing... the "alternative facts" quip...the "it's obvious where your own bias is coming from"... he thinks he's being cute.
Actually, that was Ben who called out the alternative facts quip.
And I was trying to make a genuine point, but I didn't come to battle politics or bring out the ban hammer. I won't push you on it again, because I don't want to get personal or cross that line and I do appreciate the years and service of your life that has gone into BBI. May the Force be with you, and Go Giants ✌️
Lol explains why I couldn’t find it. I was literally reading your posts a bunch of times. Like damn I haven’t even smoked yet.
Then she's telling General Kenobi what to do, nonsense.
Kenobi sneaks her out of the Inquisitor's base under a trenchcoat, ridiculous!
At least toward the end Kenobi's arc had him gain some respectability back. But it just took too long. And why didn't he finish off Vader, a Sith who is hunting and murdering the remaining Jedi?
Overall, series was both boring and entertaining. And predictable.
Reva was a crap character. Her being the youngling in the opening was obvious, her arc was even more obvious; yet she is still a brutal (over the top) murderer that we should somehow feel sorry for now?
And the Grand Inquisitor, what the F? He gets stabbed, pops up later, and acts like a cuck.
Is Qui-Gon the only one who gets stabbed and has to become a force ghost?
That said, I would watch a 2nd season. Leai snuck out of a base swarming with guards under a trenchcoat and I just said I would watch a 2nd season. I guess that's what being a NY Football Giants fan does to a man.
The Mandolorian and Boba Fett were well liked, I think the last 3 movies were more a product of JJ Abrahms not doing a great job.
The Mandalorian is great but The Book of Boba Fett was far from well liked. I thought it was decent but most did not like it.
I'm sorry, but that gratuitous "hello there" wasn't weak. Were they pandering to fans or was it more "here, take this bone" after we shoved crap at you for nearly 6 full episodes. As if that line makes up for trampling on Obi-Wan and ANH.
Likewise, Reva's redemption wasn't a redemption of sorts for Obi-Wan. It was stupid. She never should have known about Luke. Period. It was an obvious end to her arc, but another unnecessary loose end. And, Obi-Wan NEVER would have left Luke. Not even for Leia. He was unwavering about that. From the past materials (I'm not sure if some of it is the "new" canon or not), he was steadfast in his role of protecting Luke from afar. But, he also never remained due to fear or self-doubt or self-pity. Obi-Wan remained a true Jedi in mind and spirit, which is why he was so stubbornly dedicated to his job. It's also why he was training from the start. The prequels only enhanced that story by inserting Qui-Gon. He never had to let Anakin go for this. He had already done that, or at least was not hung up on it.
The final battle with Vader was the best part of the show. This is especially true of the dialogue between them after he smashed the helmet. But, it never should have happened. They never met after ROTS until ANH. Vader was never left a broken shell of himself after his first defeat. I'm not saying it's not possible that something like that would have further fueled his rage. It likely would have. But, it also would have driven him to search for Obi-Wan.
Lastly, Disney. I don't buy the "woke culture" argument per se. I think that's overblown. But, I will say Disney's pre-emptive comment about any criticism being the result of racism and/or misogyny is just really weak and BS. All criticism of the show or Reva is invalid simply because she is a Black female? It's not possible to not like the character or think the story sucks or think her acting was bad just on the "merit" of the work? That's just nonsense.
Time and again, Disney has shown they have no interest or love for the Star Wars stories or characters. They do love, however, the franchise because they know they can churn out shows and movies and they have a guaranteed audience. Why? Because as much as I criticize this show or the sequels or Book of Boba Fett (another crapfest), I'm likely to watch the next one because I love Star Wars and my boys love Star Wars. And they know it.
Didn't like the casting of the ex tingling. Her acting didn't convince me at all. I thought it was weird that obiwan became super strong overnight after being weak af and rusty for all long. Not supposed to work like that (esp. With lightsaber duel skills that require constant honing).
Don't think anyone should know about Luke and still be alive.
I liked the Leia girl. Liked the dark themes (not as awful as usual disney diluted sw), HC coming back, fight scene, etc. There were a few things that didn't make sense (but tbh that happened in the movies as well).
I thought the animated series's and rogue one were the two best thing to happen to sw since the prequels. The last trilogy broke my heart. After the ep 8 i called SW DEAD and I still cant bring myself to watch ep9 (i liked to pretend that entire story never happened).
Overall, I'm still glad i watched this particular series.
Didn't like the casting of the ex tingling. Her acting didn't convince me at all. I thought it was weird that obiwan became super strong overnight after being weak af and rusty for all long. Not supposed to work like that (esp. With lightsaber duel skills that require constant honing).
Don't think anyone should know about Luke and still be alive.
I liked the Leia girl. Liked the dark themes (not as awful as usual disney diluted sw), HC coming back, fight scene, etc. There were a few things that didn't make sense (but tbh that happened in the movies as well).
I thought the animated series's and rogue one were the two best thing to happen to sw since the prequels. The last trilogy broke my heart. After the ep 8 i called SW DEAD and I still cant bring myself to watch ep9 (i liked to pretend that entire story never happened).
Overall, I'm still glad i watched this particular series.
I will still sit and watch any of the original trilogy films if I stumble upon them. The prequels probably not, or at least not a whole film. I will never watch Ep 7-9 again.
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I had
Eric from BBI : Admin : 6/1/2022 12:05 pm : link
a feeling that intent was to destroy Obi-wan, like they did with Luke. If that's where this is going, I'm not watching it.
It's stunning how many franchises have been handed off to people who hate the original story material and just want to wreck the franchise.
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rich in DC
Eric from BBI : Admin : 6/3/2022 1:56 pm : link
I understand what you are saying, but the writers don't have that kind of talent. I'm telling you right now, the intent is to deconstruct Obi-wan. To the point where you won't even think he is the same aging man you see again in a New Hope.
That is certainly not the case at the conclusion of the finale.
And since you are referencing my debate with Eric, no matter how Eric is trying to spin this, I was correct in the end.
The character redemption arc was NEVER about Luke- it was about Obi-wan. A fundamental issue that Eric has consistently missed about Obi-wan is that Eric believes he was some sort of all-powerful Master Jedi who was unflappable no matter what happened.
That ignores reality. Obi-wan went from training the most powerful Jedi many had ever seen and was his best friend, to watching helplessly as that best friend betrayed him and the entire Jedi order- almost wiping out the entire order in the process. He watched his friend’s wife die in childbirth of a broken heart. He thought he killed his best friend to save the galaxy- and then went into exile.
If one stops for a minute and REALLY thinks about it, NO ONE would go through all that and come out strong and unfazed. Look at the troops who came home from Afghanistan and Iraq- HUGE numbers of them still suffer from PTSD and other disorders from what they went through. They often need to find a new purpose and reason to go forward.
THAT is what this series was about. Obi-wan was suffering from PTSD from the blows in Revenge of the Sith- and needed to find his way forward. The series traced that journey from him being a shell of his former self to true Jedi Master who found his new role in a galaxy without the Jedi. Only then could he hear Qui-Jon and see what he needed to do to prepare for Luke coming of age and preparing the path.
To think that Obi-wan would simply have no mental stresses from the betrayals and loss is to deny reality and human nature. This series did not destroy his image- it made it stronger - he was effectively melted down and reforged into a stronger Jedi- but he needed to hit bottom first.
For me, the few really good scenes allowed me to overlook the inconsistencies in the plot lines (which at times were terrible).
Why couldn’t they have Obi Wan use some “Jedi mind trick” to make Leia forgot him.
I liked the Leia arc, but thought the Luke arc was I unnecessary. Overall, the Vader scenes were very good.
For me, the few really good scenes allowed me to overlook the inconsistencies in the plot lines (which at times were terrible).
Why couldn’t they have Obi Wan use some “Jedi mind trick” to make Leia forgot him.
I liked the Leia arc, but thought the Luke arc was I unnecessary. Overall, the Vader scenes were very good.
Owen and Beru's death in ANH never really meant much to me before, I have a feeling that's going to change now after the finale
When the high point of the series is: “hey they managed to open the show with a minute long summary of only the key bits of the prequels. If you watch this, you can skip the prequels entirely. That’s cool.”…the show sucks.
Dumber than the prequels or sequels, dumber than Book of Boba Fett (except for the two cool Mando episodes, which were also not without problems), the stink of the crappiness is all over this one.
Kathleen Kennedy has had an incredible career, and there is so much she should be recognized for in the film industry. But she is not right for the Star Wars gig. The franchise just keeps getting worse under her watch, with a a couple notable exceptions.
Overall - I did enjoy the last episode w/ respect to Vader/Obi-Wan. The rest was just shite.
Look, they knew they had a dog on their hands.
Before episode one was released, they tweeted out that anyone who didn't like the show was a racist.
It's not just a Disney thing, "toxic fandom" has become the new narrative used by companies who can't accept criticism (most of it justified).
In a nutshell, these companies hate their customers. They just want them to shut up and give up their $$$.
I could not agree more. At work I literally said the actor player Reva is a C level actor and someone called me a racist for having a.ln opinion on ones acting ability. Mind you this is the same guy who loved episode 7, 8 and 9 and thought Han dying was great TV
Overall, the story felt clunky at times but I def enjoyed it overall. Partly because my son really liked it and THAT is what Star Wars truly is about.
Btw, the final Vader/Kenobi battle was excellent. I thought they laid the seeds for Darth pulling his punched a bit because the shard of Anakin remains (when Vader dropped the rocks on Kenobi in that pit, he said "you have failed, master"... master). That was later echoed in the brief exchange between Palpatine and Vader.
Of course, the mask part was great too.
I would have preferred either a much younger Leia or no Leia in the story at all but the little girl was adorable and captured her spirit quite well I think.
Def some areas that were a big miss but I enjoyed this more than any of the sequel movies.