So what did you all think?
For me it's "what could have been" with better writing and direction. Even with all its fan service I thought it was mostly boring and an action sequence that should have been incredibly exciting and moving was just ok.
You all enjoy the finale/show?
The battle was pretty fierce and shows even more why Vader's line to Kenobi in Star Wars rings true.
With all that said now they created a huge plot hole. Whenever Vader wants to flush out Obi-wan all he has to do is kidnap Leia again.
"You served my father in the clone wars" ... "and we also had a deep meaningful relationship when you saved me from the Empire when I was 10"
Anakin Skywalker built C3PO
The Clone Wars are all Boba Fetts
Chewbacca is Yoda's long lost friend
Darth Maul gets cut in half, reappears 30 years later as The Godfather
TATOOINE ALL THE TIME. I thought this was a backwater planet where nothing happened?
Rey is a Palpatine
The Inquisitor was a youngling
The Mandalorian is flying an Episode I ship
Young, naive 20 year old Luke who thought his father was a navigator was actually chased by Inquisitors when he was 10
They just can't help themselves.
That show could have easily been done without Luke or Leia, introduced NEW characters and stories and still gotten them to the big Vader/Obi Wan rematch.
I enjoyed the first two episodes, but it went down hill fast. And I thought the special effects were really bad for a Star Wars production.
Vader's voice going back and forth between Hayden Christiansen and James Earl Jones.
"Hello there."
"Then I must do as I must."
Qui-Gon
What bugged me...
Palpatine's makeup looked bad
I guess it didn't.
I have no interest in watching a mediocre series that opens up all sorts of plot holes with ANH.
I think I am pretty much done with SW. The sequels sucked, Solo was meh, Bobba Fett overall overall wasn't good (Temuera Morrison is just not a good actor) and now this.
James Earle Jones and Billy Dee Williams are great actors and most importantly have screen presence. Lucas was a horrible people director but he had an eye for producing and casting.
seriously. just say it, dont use trigger words
I stopped watching it after episode 2. It seems like a lot of people did in the Star Wars community.
And I did prove to be correct. From what I am told, Obi Wan didn't save Luke. Reva did but deciding not kill him.
Also, there are many videos out there on how the plot simply makes no sense at all, that it is a convoluted mess.
Disney + numbers between this and Marvel are not going to be good.
I can say that I saw the last Star Wars movie in the theatre more out of the need to check a box to say I saw it just to put the movies to bed. I have not seen it since. But I'm also not 8 years old anymore, I have a job, bills, etc. So sometimes you need to separate the nostalgia a bit.
That said, I came in with low expectations for this series. I thought it was ok. Not great, not terrible. I was more bothered by Obi-Wan getting his ass handed to him and dragged thru the fire by Vader and was glad to see Obi-Wan kick his ass in the finale. If he didn't, then Vader's line when they met on the Death Star 10 years later made no sense.
Introducing new characters in and around the story is fine. You need to try to expand the universe a bit. I love watching the Red Letter Media guys on youtube who do a great job in breaking down Star Wars. As they are more in my age range as Gen X'ers who grew up with it, they have a good grasp on what Star Wars was, and how it has turned into a corporate money grab, but Disney needs to make their money back (and more) after buying it from Lucas.
I'm kind of happy they didn't go overboard with CGI explosions, and a billion storm troopers, and lightsabers all over. So some of the more simple sets and story lines (with the chase scene w/ Leia and Flea being a joke however) were fine for me.
I will say, that loose end of Obi-Wan and Leia agreeing to never talk about this saving or else they'd both be in trouble didn't really make much sense to me. Vader already knew about it since he was there. Leia sent the message to "General Kenobi" because Vader was coming. The secret was already out. But whatever, I kind of tried more to turn my brain off, enjoyed listening to James Earl Jones AI voice and saw it for what it was, content filler for Disney + that was there to keep their subscriber base from going the way of Netflix by pumping the Star Wars fan base to keep their credit cards being charged.
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to insist that they were going to ruin Obi Wan's character. And so far no one has suggested that Kathleen Kennedy be shot, so I'm seeing some progress.
I stopped watching it after episode 2. It seems like a lot of people did in the Star Wars community.
And I did prove to be correct. From what I am told, Obi Wan didn't save Luke. Reva did but deciding not kill him.
Also, there are many videos out there on how the plot simply makes no sense at all, that it is a convoluted mess.
Disney + numbers between this and Marvel are not going to be good.
You did make that assumption, but it also came with the certainty that it meant destroying Obi Wan's legacy as they did Luke's, which was only strengthened by the finale and filled in his arc following Ep3.
My bigger issue is with the tired ideological talking points. You can criticize the show without it. It was far from great and I had plenty to nitpick, in fact, I ultimately would've preferred they didn't do the show at all.
Disney's numbers will be fine - its not like they are the only streaming service that is having issues.
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to insist that they were going to ruin Obi Wan's character. And so far no one has suggested that Kathleen Kennedy be shot, so I'm seeing some progress.
I stopped watching it after episode 2. It seems like a lot of people did in the Star Wars community.
And I did prove to be correct. From what I am told, Obi Wan didn't save Luke. Reva did but deciding not kill him.
Also, there are many videos out there on how the plot simply makes no sense at all, that it is a convoluted mess.
Disney + numbers between this and Marvel are not going to be good.
what disney community? the subreddits loved the finale and a bunch of the show.
His character arc was to redeem himself by protecting Luke. He failed. Reva saved him.
Not ideological at all. Disney doesn't understand Star Wars cannon at all. It doesn't matter to them.
The people who like this drivel are simply happy with anything labeled Star Wars without concern about what came before.
Beyond all that, it was poorly acted. The story lines made no sense. Action scenes were comical and the CGI was terrible.
The #s will prove me out. It was a failure.
Big difference.
His character arc was to redeem himself by protecting Luke. He failed. Reva saved him.
That's not really correct. He partially redeems this by making up for Luke by protecting Leia and he also forced Reva into her ultimate downfall by bringing Vader to her. Another part of his arc was getting over the events of the PT and the massacre of the Jedi. But, you didn't watch the show, so I don't expect you to agree or understand
Big difference.
To be fair, the Star Wars community hates everything now.
Obi-Wan numbers have been fine, third biggest on Disney+ I think?
My opinion stands, I thought it was a big whiff. The biggest mistake they made was putting the twins in the show.
Eric from BBI : Admin : 6/1/2022 12:05 pm : link
a feeling that intent was to destroy Obi-wan, like they did with Luke. If that's where this is going, I'm not watching it.
It's stunning how many franchises have been handed off to people who hate the original story material and just want to wreck the franchise.
Eric from BBI : Admin : 6/3/2022 1:56 pm : link
I understand what you are saying, but the writers don't have that kind of talent. I'm telling you right now, the intent is to deconstruct Obi-wan. To the point where you won't even think he is the same aging man you see again in a New Hope.
That is certainly not the case at the conclusion of the finale.
You keep alleging bias here, but the bias seems to be to defend everything Disney does. I haven't watched the series, but I've seen videos breaking down the series and it is embarrassing.
Again, you don't have to believe me. There is reason why the stock is tanking.
But as a stand-alone series, I thought it was a fun and less hokey than the prequels. Plus more Darth Vader!
You and I disagree.
Just thinking about it for a moment...using some of the same elements...they could have avoided these gaps and done a story along these lines:
Show opens with inquisitors hunting a jedi on tatooine. The jedi spots Obi Wan and approaches him. They then have the same kind of "forget it/its over" interaction. Despite this, Obi Wan starts watching the Jedi from a distance, still torn over whether to intervene or not. He then sees people from the Path help the Jedi and has his eyes opened to the fact that there are more Jedi out there than he realized, people are resisting, and the inquisitors are hunting force sensitive children. A "Little leia" character (that just isn't leia) is kidnapped and despite his misgiving, Obi Wan gets involved and through this has the same re-awakening or purpose. This quest can result in the same finale run-in (just one) with Vader, but it should end with Vader believing Obi-Wan is dead (and in a way that is believably ambiguous and not requiring Vader to simply say, "eh, that's probably good enough"). I'd skip the Reva story line (though no problem with the angry inquisitor aspect) and she should definitely not learn about Luke. Nobody should. Obi-wan returns to tatooine to go into hiding, but active hiding, as we see him helping the path grow.
You keep alleging bias here, but the bias seems to be to defend everything Disney does. I haven't watched the series, but I've seen videos breaking down the series and it is embarrassing.
Again, you don't have to believe me. There is reason why the stock is tanking.
I’m not alleging any bias. I pointed out Dave at the UWS thinks casting a black female is some sort of woke agenda, which says more about him than it does about anyone at Disney.
I didn’t like the show, I thought it was bad. I didn’t defend Star Wars, in fact I trashed it a few posts up. I don’t disagree it’s been almost entirely terrible since Disney bought it.
I am not defending Disney of anything. All I did was point out facts that it was the third biggest show on the service.
We all know you are more the alternative facts type of guy though.
Have you seen Disney+s catalog? There is hardly anything on there except for Star Wars and Marvel so saying it is third is actually an indictment.
Not even sure what your last comment means.
Vader’s line in Episode IV, “A tremor in the force. The last time I felt it was in the presence of my old master.” It got me thinking. Do they meet again over the next 10 yrs? I’m not sure why he would call Palpatine his old master. I think he might mean his old master is Obi-Wan.
His character arc was to redeem himself by protecting Luke. He failed. Reva saved him.
Not ideological at all. Disney doesn't understand Star Wars cannon at all. It doesn't matter to them.
The people who like this drivel are simply happy with anything labeled Star Wars without concern about what came before.
Beyond all that, it was poorly acted. The story lines made no sense. Action scenes were comical and the CGI was terrible.
The #s will prove me out. It was a failure.
The Mandolorian and Boba Fett were well liked, I think the last 3 movies were more a product of JJ Abrahms not doing a great job. As far as Marvel goes, I mean their success speaks for itself.
Fett was completely out of character...even the actor playing him said so publicly.
The rumors on Obi-Wan ended up all being true.
There is some sort of weird "thing" in corporate America now where it's "smart business" to piss on the base that made a franchise successful in the first place. It's almost as if they assume those people will watch regardless of how bad the product is, and they think by attracting new customers, they will grow the market.
When the opposite occurs, they can't seem to figure out why?
Who knew that bad story-telling, convoluted plots that don't make sense, destroying cannon/characters, bad acting causes issues?
From what I understand, Reva concocted a plot based on information that she could not have possibly known or how individuals would possibly react to achieve a pre-planned outcome. And you guys seem to be OK with that? It's like people are turning off their brains.
There is some sort of weird "thing" in corporate America now where it's "smart business" to piss on the base that made a franchise successful in the first place. It's almost as if they assume those people will watch regardless of how bad the product is, and they think by attracting new customers, they will grow the market.
I don't think this is true. If pissing off the base is the concern then why all the fan service? Callbacks to so many Star Wars moments like "Hello There!" I think the bigger issue is trying to please everyone and make the most money. And in doing so delivering a diluted product. Even with all that Mandalorian showed it could work, I just think Deborah Chow and the writers shit the bed.
She's a terrible villian/quasi-villian. She seems like someone you see on the bus irl rather than a Star Wars villian, who needs a cool ominous character design, costume, mask/makeup, effects etc., Yes Star Wars works at that basic level, its a space opera, Buck Rogers/Flash Gordon with a better budget. Probably a perfectly fine actor for a Hallmark after school special otherwise I guess.
Look, they knew they had a dog on their hands.
Before episode one was released, they tweeted out that anyone who didn't like the show was a racist.
It's not just a Disney thing, "toxic fandom" has become the new narrative used by companies who can't accept criticism (most of it justified).
In a nutshell, these companies hate their customers. They just want them to shut up and give up their $$$.
And movies just watching The Thing recently and you can't escape the feeling that they'll never be able to make movies like that anymore. And lol at the remake!
It's cynical, and has nothing to do with art, of course. It sucks.
If you are still looking to Star Wars to satisfy the itch of high-quality story telling, you're off the mark. I can take it for what it is at this point, and am still able to derive a certain amount of enjoyment from it - but I'm not asking too much from it at all either.
Dune, I think, was done very well. These things should only be movies.
Look, they knew they had a dog on their hands.
Before episode one was released, they tweeted out that anyone who didn't like the show was a racist.
It's not just a Disney thing, "toxic fandom" has become the new narrative used by companies who can't accept criticism (most of it justified).
In a nutshell, these companies hate their customers. They just want them to shut up and give up their $$$.
Matt M literally posted that Kathleen Kenney should be shot... that's not toxic? And you are claiming that the company hates their customers. It's just nonsense and it's obvious where your own bias is coming from.
And again, the people arguing you about this on the thread, none of them are waving their pom poms cheering this series on... the reception here has been lukewarm, but not nearly as bad as a select few of you have made it out to be.
It's cynical, and has nothing to do with art, of course. It sucks.
If you are still looking to Star Wars to satisfy the itch of high-quality story telling, you're off the mark. I can take it for what it is at this point, and am still able to derive a certain amount of enjoyment from it - but I'm not asking too much from it at all either.
Dune, I think, was done very well. These things should only be movies.
Who said "high quality" story telling. I'm just talking about basic solid storytelling that doesn't seem to have been created by a first-year film student.
Star Wars does hate their fan base. They repeatedly make comments on social media and on virtual setups that come back to haunt them. It's as if maladjusted 20-year olds are running the communications department.
It's cynical, and has nothing to do with art, of course. It sucks.
If you are still looking to Star Wars to satisfy the itch of high-quality story telling, you're off the mark. I can take it for what it is at this point, and am still able to derive a certain amount of enjoyment from it - but I'm not asking too much from it at all either.
Dune, I think, was done very well. These things should only be movies.
It makes sense from a dopes in suits exec and marketing department perspective, hell throw in lawyers. Try to appeal to the broadest demographic and make the most money.
Of course it doesn't make sense from the perspective of artistic and storytelling perspective and devotional fan perspective. A mule is a horse designed by committee.
I share a Disney+ account with family. I've told them that when - not if - Disney gets around to preventing us from sharing the account, i'm out.
The death of critical thinking is a tragedy.