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Duggan: Expect Schoen to be more conservative in FA.

SFGFNCGiantsFan : 6/23/2022 7:02 pm
Duggan posted an article earlier speculating on how Schoen will handle free agency, especially compared to his predecessors in Reese & DG.

Some points:

1) Schoen's obviously never been a GM before so it is hard to say exactly what he'd do in the big chair, but Duggan points to how Buffalo approached FA when Schoen was employed there. The Bills didn't go for blockbuster moves, but they were big into mid level signings, with Duggan citing Beasley & John Brown.

2) Thinks locking up young guys who have shown promise-AT & Xavier-should be high priorities next offseason.

3) Writes that obviously how much $ we have next offseason depends on DJ's future. If we use the franchise tag on DJ-lunacy IMO-that's a $31.5 million hit & will all but cripple how much $ we have to spend. If we move on from DJ, we'll have a ton of cap space & presumably a QB on a rookie deal. That'll give us even more $ to burn.

4) Duggan points out we can create $24.7 million in cap space if we part ways with Leo & KG. Personally, I think there's a good chance this is Kenny G's last season in NY.

5) Doesn't think Schoen will be like Reese & DG, ala throwing money around like a sailor on shore leave.

Good article if you subscibe to The Athletic.
Let's hope so  
j_rud : 6/23/2022 7:10 pm : link
How many consistently successful teams are big FA spenders? Buffalo did pick some spots tho, like Mitch Morse and the Diggs trade.
jrud.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 6/23/2022 7:12 pm : link
Duggan did mention the Morse signing as a time Buffalo flexed in FA.
RE: jrud.  
j_rud : 6/23/2022 7:21 pm : link
In comment 15739295 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
Duggan did mention the Morse signing as a time Buffalo flexed in FA.


Sure, I read it. Didn't mean to pass that off as my own idea. Athletic is easy worth the subscription.
Reese wasn't getting it done with the Draft as the years went on so  
Jimmy Googs : 6/23/2022 7:24 pm : link
when the space became available in 2016 he showed the desperation and went in big with the expensive free agent class.

Gettleman was just a moron from the start. He mixed and matched poor player evaluations with crappy contracts all along while dealing with self-concept issues. His ego and/or desperation typically got in the way of contracting better deals.

Dumb and Dumbest...
 
christian : 6/23/2022 7:38 pm : link
Eric in Li posted a great list a few months ago, showing how few of the top 100 players were signed as UFAs.

Logically this makes sense. Teams either keep or get comp for great players.

A lot of the times, when you shop at the top UFA market, guys attitude problems.

In the times though a guy shakes free, simply because his team cannot afford, that’s a perfectly good time to spend at the top of the market.
His first nine seasons, Reese’s big contracts went to incumbents.  
Big Blue Blogger : 6/23/2022 7:39 pm : link
Eli, O’Hara, Snee, Tuck, Jacobs, Diehl, and his own acquisitions Will Beatty, Victor Cruz, and Jason Pierre-Paul, who would have really broken the bank if he’d avoided fireworks. Steve Smith and Hakeem Nicks would have gotten major bucks if not for Ill-timed injuries. Injuries also cost Terrell Thomas, Kenny Phillips, Mario Manningham and Jon Goff many millions of Marabucks.

Who were the big-money imports? Canty? Boley? Rolle? Baas? Expensive pieces, but also key contributors to a championship. Schwartz? A failed bet, but not a huge dollar loss, despite the disastrous on-field impact.

2016 was a different story. With his back against the wall, Jerry overpaid, and a year later he faced the consequences.

Perhaps  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 6/23/2022 7:43 pm : link
I'm too wed to the old NFL, but I've long advocated drafting well, re-signing your own good players, and not going crazy in free agency in order to maintain good cap health/flexibility.

This just seems like common sense to me.

That all said, I thought what the Rams did was risky as hell and it worked out.
BTW  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 6/23/2022 7:45 pm : link
not to miller a thread, but I saw a blurb the other day that the Steelers haven't had a losing record since 2003.

Whatever they are doing, bottle it.
 
christian : 6/23/2022 7:48 pm : link
There’s nothing wrong with selectively shopping in UFA if the guy is a good fit, and the value is right.

The Giants made out really well with Kareem McKenzie and Antonio Pierce, for instance.
Big problem with that brilliant plan  
Spiciest Memelord : 6/23/2022 7:56 pm : link
if you're drafting is sh*t, which was the case with our two previous regimes. Might as well spend the money, you can't take it with you as they say.

Does the NFL actually have some minimum spending rule, I think so?
schoen's press conference where he talked about the price of starting  
Eric on Li : 6/23/2022 8:01 pm : link
corners and wide receivers being 20m+ made it pretty clear that's not his preference (i think it was his combine presser ahead of FA?).

the bills were selective in how they approached UFA and I expect Schoen will be too. though they were pretty aggressive traders.

also as much as people think of the Rams as big spenders in UFA they actually lose more than they gain, which is why they've collected more comp picks than any team the last several years. they are 1 of if not the most aggressive team in trades not UFA.
RE: Big problem with that brilliant plan  
Eric on Li : 6/23/2022 8:02 pm : link
In comment 15739367 Spiciest Memelord said:
Quote:
if you're drafting is sh*t, which was the case with our two previous regimes. Might as well spend the money, you can't take it with you as they say.

Does the NFL actually have some minimum spending rule, I think so?


exactly right. if you don't have players to give 2nd contracts there's a minimal opportunity cost to blowing the $.
Yes, keep signing players that aren’t all that good  
Jimmy Googs : 6/23/2022 8:54 pm : link
to expensive or above market deals.

What the hell, as a goof...
Did Reese sign any draft pick to a 2nd contract  
Chip : 6/23/2022 9:03 pm : link
other than JPP. I don't think you could have done a worse job. His best draft was his first with Bradshaw and that was with Accorsi team. When he brought Ross in everything went to hell.

Hopefully Shoen doesn't get involved in the first days of Free Agency and look for bargains and builds through the draft and I agree with Eric keep our better picks here.
RE: RE: Big problem with that brilliant plan  
FStubbs : 6/23/2022 9:10 pm : link
In comment 15739378 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 15739367 Spiciest Memelord said:


Quote:


if you're drafting is sh*t, which was the case with our two previous regimes. Might as well spend the money, you can't take it with you as they say.

Does the NFL actually have some minimum spending rule, I think so?



exactly right. if you don't have players to give 2nd contracts there's a minimal opportunity cost to blowing the $.


I don't know if I agree. I think it's how you end up with a Leonard Williams contract on your team at best.
RE: BTW  
Blue21 : 6/23/2022 9:11 pm : link
In comment 15739353 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
not to miller a thread, but I saw a blurb the other day that the Steelers haven't had a losing record since 2003.

Whatever they are doing, bottle it.
This
The key is drafting well  
Sean : 6/23/2022 10:06 pm : link
When a franchise drafts well, it makes everything easier. The free agency got out of control with Reese & Gettleman to offset poor drafting. That is never sustainable.
RE: Let's hope so  
Josh in the City : 6/23/2022 10:24 pm : link
In comment 15739290 j_rud said:
Quote:
How many consistently successful teams are big FA spenders? Buffalo did pick some spots tho, like Mitch Morse and the Diggs trade.

The last two super bowl champs…bucs & rams.
The third item  
joeinpa : 6/24/2022 6:32 am : link
Indicates that if after the season they don’t feel Daniel is elite, they will be moving on from him
I don't expect Schoen to be more conservative in FA...  
Klaatu : 6/24/2022 6:33 am : link
Or liberal, for that matter. Contextually, those terms are meaningless. What I hope is that when it comes to FA Schoen is judicious.
RE: His first nine seasons, Reese’s big contracts went to incumbents.  
Matt G : 6/24/2022 6:45 am : link
In comment 15739346 Big Blue Blogger said:
Quote:
Eli, O’Hara, Snee, Tuck, Jacobs, Diehl, and his own acquisitions Will Beatty, Victor Cruz, and Jason Pierre-Paul, who would have really broken the bank if he’d avoided fireworks. Steve Smith and Hakeem Nicks would have gotten major bucks if not for Ill-timed injuries. Injuries also cost Terrell Thomas, Kenny Phillips, Mario Manningham and Jon Goff many millions of Marabucks.

Who were the big-money imports? Canty? Boley? Rolle? Baas? Expensive pieces, but also key contributors to a championship. Schwartz? A failed bet, but not a huge dollar loss, despite the disastrous on-field impact.

2016 was a different story. With his back against the wall, Jerry overpaid, and a year later he faced the consequences.

100%
This article seems more appropriate for like next February  
ZogZerg : 6/24/2022 6:50 am : link
I guess there really isn't anything worth while to write about at the end of June.
RE: BTW  
SGMen : 6/24/2022 7:12 am : link
In comment 15739353 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
not to miller a thread, but I saw a blurb the other day that the Steelers haven't had a losing record since 2003.

Whatever they are doing, bottle it.
Great coaching, sound drafting and a franchise QB in Big Ben. That may change now only time will tell. Same goes for Patriots too.

I'm not a fan of big money UFA's unless they are the last cog or final missing piece where you have the money and know you can make a run at the SB.

Knowing Schoen VERY LITTLE but realizing he is a new GM, I think Jones and Barkley have good enough seasons to warrant tags and re-signing but neither will be! We will build via the draft and allocate resources that play to the future. Both Jones and Barkley have injury histories.
that is why I wanted them to give DJ his 5th year.  
Tom from LI : 6/24/2022 7:38 am : link
Cost control and make him do it 2 years in a row. You can still draft a QB next year if you are on the fence about him.

This is the most important position on the team. The Giants have pissed money away on other positions in recent years. Including KG currently. If you really think that there might be something with DJ you give him the 5th year, regardless.

What I think is going on is that they have little to no intentions in signing him. This is to pacify the owner.

Overall odds are against DJ in turning it around. That is why I never get hung up on what all the DJ haters here say. It will work itself out one way or the other. None of us are qualified to assert certainty in a players ability or potential success.

Not giving him the 5th year was the sign they will not stick with him.

If you truly believed that you can turn him around you know you need at least 2 seasons. So why would you franchise him if he did good this year and pay more? Not a very cap wise strategy. If you believe that you are the QB whisperer then why not save the 10 million and give him the 5th year? That is because it is not their intentions.

That is all I have to say on the matter.

We are still in the honeymoon phase, so I take everything with a grain of salt.

I have also not bought into this regime yet. They need to show improvement at all levels. I don't mind losing if it is a talent issue, but if they don't play sharp and look unorganized that is on the coaches. They are not going to turn this around in a year. but by year 3 they better be in the top 8 teams in the NFL, or we can show them the door.







In the past 12 years the Giants have  
Dnew15 : 6/24/2022 7:48 am : link
extended 3 drafted players beyond their rookie contracts:

1.) JPP
2.) OBJ (who they then traded away)
3.) Sterling Shepard

That is horrendous scouting and players development by this organization for too long.
BTW...  
Dnew15 : 6/24/2022 7:56 am : link
that makes them 3 for 97 from 2010-2022.

If it makes you feel better to take the last few draft classes out because they are still on rookie contracts - it makes them 3 for 70 from 2010 - 2019.
If the Giants organization were a MLB hitter  
Dnew15 : 6/24/2022 7:58 am : link
and a "hit" were constituted by a player drafted and then extended to a 2nd contract the organization would be "batting" .042 from 2010-2019.
Tom - I also think the Giants are sitting squarely on the fence  
Jimmy Googs : 6/24/2022 8:05 am : link
with Jones, and that the new consituents probably convinced the owners no need to grant the 5th year option.

But I disagree with the logic in your post.

You say the odds are against him turning it around and that you will would make him do it 2 years in a row anyway. But you don't think, with that as the backdrop, that it isn't worth putting an extra $10M at risk in a total cap of $200M+?

To say nothing of the fact that if you gave Jones the 5th year option and he continues to falter in 2022 beyond repair then you just wasted all the money under the option itself because it's guaranteed.

Anyway my thoughts, let me know what I am missing...
*constituents*  
Jimmy Googs : 6/24/2022 8:12 am : link
...
More conservative probably.  
gidiefor : Mod : 6/24/2022 8:21 am : link
No big signings? I don't know that that's an accurate assessment Dan. Buffalo traded for and signed Diggs and he made a huge difference in their QB. That was a pretty big signing that can in no way be construed as a mid level deal.

I would classify it more as more strategic, or picking one's spot.
RE: that is why I wanted them to give DJ his 5th year.  
HMunster : 6/24/2022 8:34 am : link
In comment 15740125 Tom from LI said:
Quote:
Cost control and make him do it 2 years in a row. You can still draft a QB next year if you are on the fence about him.

This is the most important position on the team. The Giants have pissed money away on other positions in recent years. Including KG currently. If you really think that there might be something with DJ you give him the 5th year, regardless.

What I think is going on is that they have little to no intentions in signing him. This is to pacify the owner.

Overall odds are against DJ in turning it around. That is why I never get hung up on what all the DJ haters here say. It will work itself out one way or the other. None of us are qualified to assert certainty in a players ability or potential success.

Not giving him the 5th year was the sign they will not stick with him.

If you truly believed that you can turn him around you know you need at least 2 seasons. So why would you franchise him if he did good this year and pay more? Not a very cap wise strategy. If you believe that you are the QB whisperer then why not save the 10 million and give him the 5th year? That is because it is not their intentions.

That is all I have to say on the matter.

We are still in the honeymoon phase, so I take everything with a grain of salt.

I have also not bought into this regime yet. They need to show improvement at all levels. I don't mind losing if it is a talent issue, but if they don't play sharp and look unorganized that is on the coaches. They are not going to turn this around in a year. but by year 3 they better be in the top 8 teams in the NFL, or we can show them the door.







I don't believe the Giants have any intention of franchise tagging Jones, no matter how he performs. That doesn't mean they won't sign him to a new contract if he does well this season. I continue to believe it's not a zero sum game, let him walk or franchise tag him for $31.5M. There is a third option of offering him a 2-3 year deal in the $10-$12M per year range. Jones knows there is no way he is getting $31.5M per year next year and if the Giants, who know him best, don't offer him that, no other team will either. If he lights it up this year, a middle of the road contract is much more likely.
RE: Perhaps  
cosmicj : 6/24/2022 9:04 am : link
In comment 15739349 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
I'm too wed to the old NFL, but I've long advocated drafting well, re-signing your own good players, and not going crazy in free agency in order to maintain good cap health/flexibility.

This just seems like common sense to me.

That all said, I thought what the Rams did was risky as hell and it worked out.


I’m with you Eric and I think the argument is about fit. If you have a team philosophy, resigning a player who is successful within that framework is a low risk move.

Contrast that with a signing like Golladay. Probably a decent player but no production.

The career of Yannick Ngakoue is a good illustration. Developed into an emerging star with the Jags. Signed a big FA contract with Minnesota, a team with solid scouting. So disappointing he is traded to the Ravens mid season, where he again is disappointing and is released. In 2021, Ngakoue signs with the Raiders and registers double digit sacks. Did Ngakoue forget how to play football when he signed with Minnesota? Doubtful. He wasn’t a fit for what they wanted to do and now that he is back in a framework that fits him he again is a plus player. Illustrative.

That’s why I was so convinced we needed to resign Tomlinson. We KNEW he works in the Giants system. Instead, we used part of the money to sign a player who didn’t fit.

I know there are coaching and team building continuity factors in all of this but the point holds. Retaining your own FAs is low risk.
RE: that is why I wanted them to give DJ his 5th year.  
cosmicj : 6/24/2022 9:06 am : link
In comment 15740125 Tom from LI said:
Quote:
Cost control and make him do it 2 years in a row. You can still draft a QB next year if you are on the fence about him.

This is the most important position on the team. The Giants have pissed money away on other positions in recent years. Including KG currently. If you really think that there might be something with DJ you give him the 5th year, regardless.

What I think is going on is that they have little to no intentions in signing him. This is to pacify the owner.

Overall odds are against DJ in turning it around. That is why I never get hung up on what all the DJ haters here say. It will work itself out one way or the other. None of us are qualified to assert certainty in a players ability or potential success.

Not giving him the 5th year was the sign they will not stick with him.

If you truly believed that you can turn him around you know you need at least 2 seasons.



2 years is rushing it. He needs at least until we’ve decarbonized the economy.
RE: RE: that is why I wanted them to give DJ his 5th year.  
christian : 6/24/2022 9:07 am : link
In comment 15740180 HMunster said:
Quote:
There is a third option of offering him a 2-3 year deal in the $10-$12M per year range. Jones knows there is no way he is getting $31.5M per year next year and if the Giants, who know him best, don't offer him that, no other team will either. If he lights it up this year, a middle of the road contract is much more likely.


If Jones lights it up, the market will be stronger than 2/24M.

Jameis Winston is really the only QB in that range, and he got 2/28M coming off a torn ACL.

RE: BTW...  
rasbutant : 6/24/2022 9:08 am : link
In comment 15740137 Dnew15 said:
Quote:
that makes them 3 for 97 from 2010-2022.

If it makes you feel better to take the last few draft classes out because they are still on rookie contracts - it makes them 3 for 70 from 2010 - 2019.


Part of that is the regime changes, every new GM/Coach sweeps the cupboard clean and starts bringing in their own guys. But yeah, it's not like any of them went on to be stars for another team either.
Stubbs you are exactly right but who is the best player on the team?  
Eric on Li : 6/24/2022 10:56 am : link
In comment 15739560 FStubbs said:
Quote:
In comment 15739378 Eric on Li said:


Quote:


In comment 15739367 Spiciest Memelord said:


Quote:


if you're drafting is sh*t, which was the case with our two previous regimes. Might as well spend the money, you can't take it with you as they say.

Does the NFL actually have some minimum spending rule, I think so?



exactly right. if you don't have players to give 2nd contracts there's a minimal opportunity cost to blowing the $.



I don't know if I agree. I think it's how you end up with a Leonard Williams contract on your team at best.


it's probably Leonard Williams. he's not the issue w/r/t blowing money in UFA, the issue are deals like Golladay where you pay 10% of your cap to a guy who is playing below replacement level. free agency is a short term tool with long term implications that always surface pain if overused. nobody bats 1.000 in FA.
Isn't this obvious?  
BH28 : 6/24/2022 11:20 am : link
If you draft like shit, the 'correction' is to overreach in FA. If you draft well, there is no need to go big in FA.

If Schoen starts being aggressive in FA, that's probably not a good sign to his recent drafts.
Cap hell  
Jimmy Googs : 6/24/2022 11:26 am : link
Leonard Williams cap hit in 2022 is $27.3M and 10th highest in the entire league, including QBs. 4th highest amongst all Defensive Players.

Kenny Golladay's cap hit at $21.2M comes in #1 amongst all Wide Receivers in the league.

Good lord.

Thanks DG...

RE: This article seems more appropriate for like next February  
Carson53 : 6/24/2022 11:40 am : link
In comment 15740102 ZogZerg said:
Quote:
I guess there really isn't anything worth while to write about at the end of June.
.

Exactly, that's why it's baseball season...
Was going to make the point about drafting well  
AcesUp : 6/24/2022 11:45 am : link
But I see it's been made several times already. If you're drafting well then that money will go to re-upping your own guys. If you're not drafting well, your team stinks and will have a big old pile of money sitting there after not extending your draft busts while the owner cranks up the heat on your job. Draft well.

Hopefully AT and McKinney play well enough to earn extensions and the Giants won't be tempted to play the top of the UFA market in the coming years.
RE: BTW  
HomerJones45 : 6/24/2022 11:52 am : link
In comment 15739353 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
not to miller a thread, but I saw a blurb the other day that the Steelers haven't had a losing record since 2003.

Whatever they are doing, bottle it.
It's no big secret. They've had 3 head coaches in 50+ years, and they are in charge. They hire young guys with DC experience and who have coaching experience in other areas other than defense and leave them alone. I don't think that is an accident- DC's have to be operational pessimists. They don't throw guys out the door who bring trophies for having bad seasons.
RE: Perhaps  
rich in DC : 6/24/2022 12:12 pm : link
In comment 15739349 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
I'm too wed to the old NFL, but I've long advocated drafting well, re-signing your own good players, and not going crazy in free agency in order to maintain good cap health/flexibility.

This just seems like common sense to me.

That all said, I thought what the Rams did was risky as hell and it worked out.


I agree with most of this, but I would add a couple more points- something I think Eric in Li (may have the wrong poster, but trying to give credit where due) referenced as well.

I think Schoen has indicated that certain positions in the nFL are getting out of control financially. Traditionally, you have always paid a premium for a good to great QB and RB. However, the modern NFL is about the passing game and stopping the passing game. Ergo, positions that have not traditionally been paid well now are being so.

Before I get into that, the Rams and Giants are going to be two different models for different reasons. The Rams realized that they have stars with short windows and few young stars. Thus, they took a gamble (and it paid off in spades) that they could load up and the new positions of importance (CB, WR, rush DL and QB) and just have able players at other positions and succeed. The Giants haven’t built that base and all their players or interest are young and on first contracts (Galloday and Williams are not long term pieces and might not last past this season).

Now, IMO, the new positions of importance are: QB (as always), WR, CB, slot corner, rush end/LB and RB who can catch the ball while still running effectively between the tackles, and OT. Players at these positions now get paid ridiculous sums (even though salaries overall are rising quickly- these are higher than most).

Thus, going back to Eric’s point, I suggest adding that a team must draft well at these positions, develop and re-sign them- and keep competent players at the other positions. Having your own at those key positions allows a team to give out smaller and shorter contracts to vets to fill in these other positions without being over the barrel.

The Giants have promising players at both OT spots and rush ends/LB. They drafted players for the slot corner and modern WR. They have a RB who fits the modern mold, but he might only be here another year.

The big questions are QB, CB and more WR. IMO, this is where the next two drafts will prioritize early. However, the point I would add to Eric’s idea is that the Giants will need to continue to draft and target the key spots- what the Steelers have done well is to draft at a position of strength and develop those players so when a players performance drops off or he wants more money and leaves, you have an in-house backfill at the key spots. Look how many rush ends/LB and WR have rotated through that team over the years.

Once you have players at the big prize positions, you can invest in a mix of draft picks and FA at the rest.
there's not a single person that wouldn't advocate drafting well  
Eric on Li : 6/24/2022 12:28 pm : link
that's obviously the spine of any good organization and at the heart of the rot of this one in the last 10 years. that is table stakes of any honest conversation about this organizations past failures and future.

over relying on free agency isn't ideal but there are times when the opportunity cost isn't as severe because you simply haven't drafted well enough to have players worth resigning - which is where this organization has been for far too long.

case in point on that is leonard williams because for all the bitching about him and his cap hit there's quite literally not much in the way of better alternatives that were available. great players don't hit FA. So the alternative was using that money on more Schwartz, Baas, Vernon, Jackrabbit, Snacks, Marshall, Solder, Golladay, Bradberry, Jackson, Ryan, types. i'd argue he's delivered by a good margin the best ROI of any FA we've signed since McKenzie probably. who if memory serves was also complained about for being one of the highest paid RT's in football but not a superstar. their problem the last 10 years was not finding more players as good as leonard williams to get on 2nd contracts be it from draft or FA, not less.
It is a very sad day when basically a 4-win team over the last  
Jimmy Googs : 6/24/2022 12:42 pm : link
few seasons can't find any better alternatives with it's money and draft picks than just agree to make a good 3-4 Defensive Tackle the 10th highest cap hit in the entire NFL for 2022...
RE: RE: that is why I wanted them to give DJ his 5th year.  
Reale01 : 6/24/2022 12:47 pm : link
In comment 15740180 HMunster said:
Quote:
In comment 15740125 Tom from LI said:


Quote:


Cost control and make him do it 2 years in a row. You can still draft a QB next year if you are on the fence about him.

This is the most important position on the team. The Giants have pissed money away on other positions in recent years. Including KG currently. If you really think that there might be something with DJ you give him the 5th year, regardless.

What I think is going on is that they have little to no intentions in signing him. This is to pacify the owner.

Overall odds are against DJ in turning it around. That is why I never get hung up on what all the DJ haters here say. It will work itself out one way or the other. None of us are qualified to assert certainty in a players ability or potential success.

Not giving him the 5th year was the sign they will not stick with him.

If you truly believed that you can turn him around you know you need at least 2 seasons. So why would you franchise him if he did good this year and pay more? Not a very cap wise strategy. If you believe that you are the QB whisperer then why not save the 10 million and give him the 5th year? That is because it is not their intentions.

That is all I have to say on the matter.

We are still in the honeymoon phase, so I take everything with a grain of salt.

I have also not bought into this regime yet. They need to show improvement at all levels. I don't mind losing if it is a talent issue, but if they don't play sharp and look unorganized that is on the coaches. They are not going to turn this around in a year. but by year 3 they better be in the top 8 teams in the NFL, or we can show them the door.









I don't believe the Giants have any intention of franchise tagging Jones, no matter how he performs. That doesn't mean they won't sign him to a new contract if he does well this season. I continue to believe it's not a zero sum game, let him walk or franchise tag him for $31.5M. There is a third option of offering him a 2-3 year deal in the $10-$12M per year range. Jones knows there is no way he is getting $31.5M per year next year and if the Giants, who know him best, don't offer him that, no other team will either. If he lights it up this year, a middle of the road contract is much more likely.


Agree that it is not all or nothing. If he plays well and the coaches like him the Giants could sign him for two or three years at 20ish. Still gives Jones time to cash in big if he is able to show consistency.
RE: BTW  
Toth029 : 6/25/2022 9:49 am : link
In comment 15739353 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
not to miller a thread, but I saw a blurb the other day that the Steelers haven't had a losing record since 2003.

Whatever they are doing, bottle it.


Drafting and coaching.

From the mid 90s until 2021, they didn't have a defense finish below 18th in PPG. Often was a too 10 or even a top 3 unit. Remember when they started Duck Hodges and Mason Rudolph? Finished 8-8. Splendid coaching. They had a putrid offense with a washed QB and still finished with a winning record.
RE: BTW  
djm : 6/25/2022 10:59 am : link
In comment 15739353 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
not to miller a thread, but I saw a blurb the other day that the Steelers haven't had a losing record since 2003.

Whatever they are doing, bottle it.


They made the playoffs last year despite fielding an awful offense.

It’s called good nfl defense. It’s alive and well, at least in the afc central it is.
RE: BTW  
Milton : 6/25/2022 11:56 am : link
Quote:
not to miller a thread, but I saw a blurb the other day that the Steelers haven't had a losing record since 2003. Whatever they are doing, bottle it.
Roethlisberger is a bigtime creep and I'm surprised the Rooney family stuck by him (I wouldn't've wanted the Giants to), but that means they didn't have a losing record for the entirety of his 18-year career. Hate to give him credit, but that's something.
RE: RE: BTW  
SGMen : 6/26/2022 7:22 am : link
In comment 15741101 Milton said:
Quote:


Quote:


not to miller a thread, but I saw a blurb the other day that the Steelers haven't had a losing record since 2003. Whatever they are doing, bottle it.

Roethlisberger is a bigtime creep and I'm surprised the Rooney family stuck by him (I wouldn't've wanted the Giants to), but that means they didn't have a losing record for the entirety of his 18-year career. Hate to give him credit, but that's something.
I have a lot of friends who are Pittsburgh fans, most are 55+ and got hooked with the Bradshaw years and 4 Super Bowls.

They say Big Ben was loved by his teammates which is why he survived. He was young and arrogant perhaps. I know he got called for possibly raping a woman I do believe but wasn't convicted or charged even as I recall. Look, the guy could play but he played up to his limits and isn't able to go anymore so he laid his cleats down. I wish Eli had laid them down a year sooner as well.
RE: In the past 12 years the Giants have  
Ivan15 : 6/27/2022 1:59 pm : link
In comment 15740132 Dnew15 said:
Quote:
extended 3 drafted players beyond their rookie contracts:

1.) JPP
2.) OBJ (who they then traded away)
3.) Sterling Shepard

That is horrendous scouting and players development by this organization for too long.


JPP and OBJ were damaged goods, Shepard was just a dumb mistake because there was no talent left on the roster so they felt they needed to hang on to the best they had.
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