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NFT: NBA Draft is over: Knicks Talk

LawrenceTaylor56 : 6/24/2022 8:04 am

What the Knicks did last night:

NYK trades 11th pick to OKC

OKC trades 3 firsts (23 DEN, DET, WASH) to NYK

NYK then trades 23 DEN, 4 seconds to CHA for 13th pick

NYK then trade 13th pick & Kemba Walker to DET for MKE's 25 first

NYK trades 11, Kemba, 4 2nds & gets 3 future 1sts

Pick Protections:

'25 MKE Protected 1-4

'23 DET Protected 1-18 => '24 Protected 1-18 => '25 Protected 1-13 => '26 Protected 1-11 => '27 Protected 1-9 or Second Rounder

'23 WAS Protected 1-14 => '24 Protected 1-12 => '25 Protected 1-10 => '26 Protected 1-8 => '27 Second Round Pick

Second Round

Knicks select (F)Trevor Keels, Duke at #42.
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I had hoped the Knicks  
Enzo : 6/27/2022 4:24 pm : link
could get in the mix for Ayton - but I'm thinking the Nets can top any offer if KD is on the table, lol.
Knicks  
five5 : 6/27/2022 4:28 pm : link
have committed to Brunson (obviously) and now are handcuffed in terms of what else they can do. Why wouldn’t they be all over Murray?
RE: Knicks  
TommyWiseau : 6/27/2022 4:35 pm : link
In comment 15742169 five5 said:
Quote:
have committed to Brunson (obviously) and now are handcuffed in terms of what else they can do. Why wouldn’t they be all over Murray?


Cause they probably promised to pay Brunson
RE: RE: Knicks  
adamg : 6/27/2022 4:37 pm : link
In comment 15742174 TommyWiseau said:
Quote:
In comment 15742169 five5 said:


Quote:


have committed to Brunson (obviously) and now are handcuffed in terms of what else they can do. Why wouldn’t they be all over Murray?



Cause they probably promised to pay Brunson


Do you think they pinky promised?
I've gone out of my way to listen to WFAN & ESPN Radio today  
bceagle05 : 6/27/2022 4:39 pm : link
for some KD/Kyrie talk, and barely a word so far - even Evan Roberts. Amazing how little attention it gets - should be by far the biggest story in New York sports.
RE: I've gone out of my way to listen to WFAN & ESPN Radio today  
nygiants16 : 6/27/2022 4:40 pm : link
In comment 15742177 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
for some KD/Kyrie talk, and barely a word so far - even Evan Roberts. Amazing how little attention it gets - should be by far the biggest story in New York sports.


Evan Roberts doesnt bring up the Nets when bad things are happening with them, only when good things happen
Deandre Ayton to the Nets  
shyster : 6/27/2022 4:40 pm : link
is a thing, betting odds dropping fast.

And the talk is this would mean Durant to the Suns.


twitter - ( New Window )
Damn go get Dejounte Murray  
larryflower37 : 6/27/2022 4:41 pm : link
Forget Brunson.
RE: Knicks  
Strahan91 : 6/27/2022 4:43 pm : link
In comment 15742169 five5 said:
Quote:
have committed to Brunson (obviously) and now are handcuffed in terms of what else they can do. Why wouldn’t they be all over Murray?

Because they want to keep their draft capital mostly dry to have the means to go after the next superstar that becomes available. If you trade essentially your next ~5 or so drafts and pay him $40M/year you're going to have a tough time putting together an appealing offer when the time comes to get *the* guy
RE: Knicks  
Mike in NJ : 6/27/2022 4:43 pm : link
In comment 15742169 five5 said:
Quote:
have committed to Brunson (obviously) and now are handcuffed in terms of what else they can do. Why wouldn’t they be all over Murray?


Are we sure Murray is that much better than Brunson? Why give up a ton of assets for Murray when you can just sign Brunson outright?

They are same age, Murray has better PER, Brunson has better TS% and they are about equal in terms of WS and WS/48
i'm always skeptical on knicks mgt too  
JJ2525 : 6/27/2022 4:46 pm : link
but brunson for money vs. murray for 3 #1s and 2 swaps isn't some slam dunk for murray. through 4 years their advanced stats are identical if not in brunson's favor. in murray's year 5 his usage rate jumped alot and that brought his PER up which youd assume would happen for brunson over a full season based on what happened in dallas when luka was out.

i'm a nova guy and have followed brunson dating back to his HS days. He's an absolute warrior and a true culture guy. He won't let teammates half ass it. brunson 4/100 is not a bad deal at all.
RE: Deandre Ayton to the Nets  
adamg : 6/27/2022 4:47 pm : link
In comment 15742179 shyster said:
Quote:
is a thing, betting odds dropping fast.

And the talk is this would mean Durant to the Suns.
twitter - ( New Window )


Haven't seen this posted yet,  
Strahan91 : 6/27/2022 4:48 pm : link
Quickley doing some non-tampering recruiting :)
Link - ( New Window )
RE: Haven't seen this posted yet,  
nygiants16 : 6/27/2022 4:51 pm : link
In comment 15742192 Strahan91 said:
Quote:
Quickley doing some non-tampering recruiting :) Link - ( New Window )


Still think there is more than just Brunson in the works
What are the cap implications of snagging Mitchell?  
adamg : 6/27/2022 4:52 pm : link
.
RE: What are the cap implications of snagging Mitchell?  
Strahan91 : 6/27/2022 4:53 pm : link
In comment 15742195 adamg said:
Quote:
.

They'd have to match salary. I doubt Mitchell forces his way out this offseason, I'm thinking next is more likely but if he did something like Burks, Noel, Toppin, Reddish and a ton of picks would work under the cap.
RE: What are the cap implications of snagging Mitchell?  
adamg : 6/27/2022 4:53 pm : link
In comment 15742195 adamg said:
Quote:
.


Like could we trade picks for Mitchell, sign Brunson and extend RJ?
RE: RE: What are the cap implications of snagging Mitchell?  
adamg : 6/27/2022 4:54 pm : link
In comment 15742196 Strahan91 said:
Quote:
In comment 15742195 adamg said:


Quote:


.


They'd have to match salary. I doubt Mitchell forces his way out this offseason, I'm thinking next is more likely but if he did something like Burks, Noel, Toppin, Reddish and a ton of picks would work under the cap.


Thanks!
Should also mention they have cap space now so  
Strahan91 : 6/27/2022 4:56 pm : link
if they had a sign and trade with the Mavs lined up they could send out less salary for Mitchell, about $12-13M
RE: RE: What are the cap implications of snagging Mitchell?  
Enzo : 6/27/2022 5:00 pm : link
In comment 15742196 Strahan91 said:
Quote:
In comment 15742195 adamg said:


Quote:


.


They'd have to match salary. I doubt Mitchell forces his way out this offseason, I'm thinking next is more likely but if he did something like Burks, Noel, Toppin, Reddish and a ton of picks would work under the cap.

Ainge will want ALL of the picks. And when it comes to our picks, he's gonna want unprotected picks and swaps.
Ayton  
DanMetroMan : 6/27/2022 5:00 pm : link
would be an annoyingly strong return for Durant if he's forcing his way out of town anyway.
RE: RE: RE: What are the cap implications of snagging Mitchell?  
Strahan91 : 6/27/2022 5:03 pm : link
In comment 15742203 Enzo said:
Quote:

Ainge will want ALL of the picks. And when it comes to our picks, he's gonna want unprotected picks and swaps.

True but the Knicks will have *some* leverage because no team that would be in on Mitchell (IE OKC) can offer the kind of draft capital the Knicks can
Mentioned it before  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 6/27/2022 5:07 pm : link
But Kyrie as one of the NBPA VPs taking a $30M paycut is such a bad look for the Players’ Association and might be a big topic of discussion in order to avoid another lockout.

This guy is so delusional and selfish.

I still need to see it to believe it but it really does look like the Lakers are his only potential destination.
Ainge is a pain in the ass to deal with  
Ten Ton Hammer : 6/27/2022 5:15 pm : link
He's a prospect and pick hoarder if you remeber his time in Boston. Had all this ammo and never made a deal.

He doesn't do deals unless they're vastly weighed in his favor.

He also has no reason to trade Mitchell. Mitchell's making 30-37 million a year in Utah and he's signed long term. He has to make a mess of his situation and demand a trade first.
If I’m the Suns  
GNewGiants : 6/27/2022 5:18 pm : link
I’d trade CP3 as quickly as possible. Even if it means taking on nut job Kyrie.
nothing would stop the knicks from..  
Italianju : 6/27/2022 5:29 pm : link
getting both. I mean brunson played with luka and obviously the hawks thing him and young work. I would love to get Murray, im surprised so many (or im just noticing the same poster over and over) think he is overrated. If i had my choice im not even sure id take Mitchell over Murray.
RE: Ainge is a pain in the ass to deal with  
Strahan91 : 6/27/2022 5:30 pm : link
In comment 15742213 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:

He also has no reason to trade Mitchell. Mitchell's making 30-37 million a year in Utah and he's signed long term. He has to make a mess of his situation and demand a trade first.

Mitchell demanding a trade would be the precursor for sure. It's a star-driven league, if he wants out he can get out
RE: nothing would stop the knicks from..  
Strahan91 : 6/27/2022 5:37 pm : link
In comment 15742217 Italianju said:
Quote:
getting both. I mean brunson played with luka and obviously the hawks thing him and young work. I would love to get Murray, im surprised so many (or im just noticing the same poster over and over) think he is overrated. If i had my choice im not even sure id take Mitchell over Murray.

I don't think Mitchell vs. Murray is even close. Brunson and Murray is much closer imo and the advanced stats agree (not that they're perfect). Murray is a really good player but he can't shoot which makes it much more challenging to build a contender around him (great fit with Trae though). Even prime Russell Westbrook had a higher eFG% than Murray.
James  
DanMetroMan : 6/27/2022 5:44 pm : link
Edwards does not believe the Pistons will chase Ayton/Brunson/Bridges (he did say it's possible but he's calling it "unlikely")
which advanced stats?  
Italianju : 6/27/2022 5:49 pm : link
are you doing this for career or last season? Its really only fair to use Murray's last couple seasons. Before that he had the injury and didnt play right out of the gate like Mitchell. This past year Murray was ahead in per and WS. I mean there are a million advanced stats.

I like mitchell so im not saying he sux, but all the numbers seem pretty close, again unless you are pulling like career stats.
If  
DanMetroMan : 6/27/2022 5:57 pm : link
Durant were to land with the Suns, then maybe the Knicks get "lucky" and a team like LAC realizes they will need more help (especially if Kyrie joins the LAL)

What about Randle for Zubac (partially guaranteed but likely would be guaranteed before a deal was done, 2 days, an expiring deal after the season), Reggie Jackson and extremely underrated (and from Brooklyn) Terrence Mann?

Mann this year 11 and 5 with 3 assists 48% from the field 37% from 3 78% from the line career .122 WS/48

They would still be able to sign Brunson + open minutes up for Obi.
RE: which advanced stats?  
Strahan91 : 6/27/2022 5:57 pm : link
In comment 15742229 Italianju said:
Quote:
are you doing this for career or last season? Its really only fair to use Murray's last couple seasons. Before that he had the injury and didnt play right out of the gate like Mitchell. This past year Murray was ahead in per and WS. I mean there are a million advanced stats.

I like mitchell so im not saying he sux, but all the numbers seem pretty close, again unless you are pulling like career stats.

I was comparing Brunson to Murray although not quite fair since both players have improved every year in the league and Murray's got an extra season under his belt. I was specifically referring to WS and ORtg/DRtg although it's hard to compare the two given the usage delta.
RE: If I’m the Suns  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 6/27/2022 5:58 pm : link
In comment 15742214 GNewGiants said:
Quote:
I’d trade CP3 as quickly as possible. Even if it means taking on nut job Kyrie.


CP3 is a significantly better fit with Booker and KD than Kyrie would be.

I could see CP3 fall off a cliff real soon, but if he has another year or two then he’s the perfect PG to play with those two lethal scorers.
thats whats tricky about Murray...  
Italianju : 6/27/2022 5:59 pm : link
is he has been in the league awhile. I put Brunson a step below Murray. And i think Murray still has more upside. He has some really good stretches last year.

That said it doesnt sound like we are in on that so it prolly doesnt matter, ha.
RE: thats whats tricky about Murray...  
Italianju : 6/27/2022 6:00 pm : link
In comment 15742236 Italianju said:
Quote:
is he has been in the league awhile. I put Brunson a step below Murray. And i think Murray still has more upside. He has some really good stretches last year.

That said it doesnt sound like we are in on that so it prolly doesnt matter, ha.


meant to say he has been in the league awhile, but has taken a big step the last couple years.
RE: thats whats tricky about Murray...  
Strahan91 : 6/27/2022 6:03 pm : link
In comment 15742236 Italianju said:
Quote:
is he has been in the league awhile. I put Brunson a step below Murray. And i think Murray still has more upside. He has some really good stretches last year.

That said it doesnt sound like we are in on that so it prolly doesnt matter, ha.

I agree I think Murray is a little better given what we know right now but I can see why Knicks brass would rather Brunson at $25M per + all their firsts vs Murray at $40M per while giving up 3-4 1sts and a few pick swaps
well Murray is signed for the next 2 years for 34 mill..  
Italianju : 6/27/2022 6:21 pm : link
but yeah giving up a ton of picks would be the risk. Like i said id be ok with them getting brunson and Murray. I think they could play fine together. Would really need RJ to be that near 40% from 3 guy though. Murray does not shoot the 3 great so if RJ doesnt and you still have mitch its not exactly a great shooting team, which in todays nba would be a problem.
RE: well Murray is signed for the next 2 years for 34 mill..  
Strahan91 : 6/27/2022 6:27 pm : link
In comment 15742245 Italianju said:
Quote:
but yeah giving up a ton of picks would be the risk. Like i said id be ok with them getting brunson and Murray. I think they could play fine together. Would really need RJ to be that near 40% from 3 guy though. Murray does not shoot the 3 great so if RJ doesnt and you still have mitch its not exactly a great shooting team, which in todays nba would be a problem.

Apparently that's part of the rationale for the trade, he's eligible for a max extension next summer which I'm sure any acquiring team is going to give him rather than have him hit FA although you never know in the nba
I agree though I think they'd play well together  
Strahan91 : 6/27/2022 6:29 pm : link
and wouldn't mind the Knicks taking that route in the least but I'm just assuming that they don't view him as *the* guy (clearly neither do the Spurs) to build your franchise around and want to wait for that guy to become available.
Kyrie is staying (for a year)  
Strahan91 : 6/27/2022 6:38 pm : link
https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1541551184372170752?s=20&t=LlGBEUGU-g6km4DLHj8S0Q

I bet he realized he's not getting paid anywhere else and will wait to hit the market next year
Irving  
DanMetroMan : 6/27/2022 6:40 pm : link
Announces he’s opting in and not asking to be traded. Will remain in Brooklyn
Wonder what KD is thinking now  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 6/27/2022 6:42 pm : link
.
RE: Irving  
TommyWiseau : 6/27/2022 6:45 pm : link
In comment 15742260 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Announces he’s opting in and not asking to be traded. Will remain in Brooklyn


Wonder if Durant thinks he is wasting another year in Brooklyn?
So Irving manufactured drama for the sake of drama.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 6/27/2022 6:49 pm : link
On brand.

I bet KD sticks around now too. Or doesn't. Let's see what side of the bed he wakes up on tomorrow.
Kyrie going into the last year of his contract  
Strahan91 : 6/27/2022 6:56 pm : link
disgruntled after his relationship with the team became completely unsalvageable. What could possibly go wrong?
Strahan91.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 6/27/2022 7:01 pm : link
Sounds like an ideal situation for Irving to go off the deep end for what, the 5577557575th time? GETCHA POPCORN READY! :-)
Some Brunson stats for you guys...  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 6/27/2022 7:16 pm : link
I've mentioned this site before (PbPStats), just a great source of information.

Brunson played 1691 minutes on the court with Luka last year, and 1463 minutes without Luka on the court. Here are Brunson's per75 Possession stats with and without Luka on the court last year (including RS + Playoffs). Why per75 possessions? It's a more natural looking comparison to a player who plays about 36ish minutes per game, rather than the per100 possession stats which are hard to put into context.

w/ Luka --- 16.6 PTS/75 -- 3.7 AST/75 -- 1.3 TO/75 -- .556 eFG% -- .407 3P% -- .590 TS%
w/o Luka -- 24.9 PTS/75 -- 7.4 AST/75 -- 2.3 TO/75 -- .527 eFG% -- .323 3P% -- .566 TS%

Pretty damn solid numbers for Brunson when Luka is off the court. He picks up the scoring volume bigtime and does a fantastic job of limiting turnovers. His scoring efficiency does drop from above-average to literally league average, because he doesn't get those wide open catch-n-shoot 3s he gets with Luka on the floor. 41% from 3 with Luka to 32% from 3 without Luka. When Luka's on the floor, 91% of Brunson's made 3s are assisted. When Luka is off the floor and Brunson has the ball in his hands more, 64% of his made 3s are assisted.

But overall, those are some pretty solid numbers for Brunson without Luka on the court. Not sure if transitioning from a role player in Dallas around Luka to one of "the main guys" in NY will have an intangible effect on him, but he certainly has some real potential as an offensive player if he gets more consistent with his off-the dribble 3pt shot. His FT% and catch-n-shoot 3P% suggest he's a pretty good shooter with potential.
Osi.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 6/27/2022 7:24 pm : link
Thanks for that. I think Brunson knows that too. He'll have the ball in his hands a helluva lot more in NY than he would in Dallas.
RE: Some Brunson stats for you guys...  
larryflower37 : 6/27/2022 7:28 pm : link
In comment 15742285 Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy said:
Quote:
I've mentioned this site before (PbPStats), just a great source of information.

Brunson played 1691 minutes on the court with Luka last year, and 1463 minutes without Luka on the court. Here are Brunson's per75 Possession stats with and without Luka on the court last year (including RS + Playoffs). Why per75 possessions? It's a more natural looking comparison to a player who plays about 36ish minutes per game, rather than the per100 possession stats which are hard to put into context.

w/ Luka --- 16.6 PTS/75 -- 3.7 AST/75 -- 1.3 TO/75 -- .556 eFG% -- .407 3P% -- .590 TS%
w/o Luka -- 24.9 PTS/75 -- 7.4 AST/75 -- 2.3 TO/75 -- .527 eFG% -- .323 3P% -- .566 TS%

Pretty damn solid numbers for Brunson when Luka is off the court. He picks up the scoring volume bigtime and does a fantastic job of limiting turnovers. His scoring efficiency does drop from above-average to literally league average, because he doesn't get those wide open catch-n-shoot 3s he gets with Luka on the floor. 41% from 3 with Luka to 32% from 3 without Luka. When Luka's on the floor, 91% of Brunson's made 3s are assisted. When Luka is off the floor and Brunson has the ball in his hands more, 64% of his made 3s are assisted.

But overall, those are some pretty solid numbers for Brunson without Luka on the court. Not sure if transitioning from a role player in Dallas around Luka to one of "the main guys" in NY will have an intangible effect on him, but he certainly has some real potential as an offensive player if he gets more consistent with his off-the dribble 3pt shot. His FT% and catch-n-shoot 3P% suggest he's a pretty good shooter with potential.

These are great numbers but will the Knicks use him the same way Dallas has when Luka is out.
The offense is gear to run through Luka and Brunson basically used in the Luka role in his absence.
RE: RE: There’s  
giantstock : 6/29/2022 12:45 am : link
In comment 15742095 Mike in NJ said:
Quote:
In comment 15742086 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


A lot of underrating of Brunson on here



Pretty sure most of the people commenting on him and underrating him are just looking at stats and have never actually watched him play.


Pretty sure people that are overrating him are looking at his stats and just don't understand that you can't just pluck numbers in with all players and assume that will lead to a good number of wins.
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