What the Knicks did last night:
NYK trades 11th pick to OKC
OKC trades 3 firsts (23 DEN, DET, WASH) to NYK
NYK then trades 23 DEN, 4 seconds to CHA for 13th pick
NYK then trade 13th pick & Kemba Walker to DET for MKE's 25 first
NYK trades 11, Kemba, 4 2nds & gets 3 future 1sts
Pick Protections:
'25 MKE Protected 1-4
'23 DET Protected 1-18 => '24 Protected 1-18 => '25 Protected 1-13 => '26 Protected 1-11 => '27 Protected 1-9 or Second Rounder
'23 WAS Protected 1-14 => '24 Protected 1-12 => '25 Protected 1-10 => '26 Protected 1-8 => '27 Second Round Pick
Second Round
Knicks select (F)Trevor Keels, Duke at #42.
We added no players, just picks and once again, too many to actually use. It only makes sense that they are stock piling for a trade.
The really bad news is the only disgruntled star that looks to be on the move is the lunatic Kyrie.
Frustrating to once again have delayed gratification. We better actually get someone with this cap space for once
Are you mad because presumably going after Brunson?
Are you mad because you loved Kemba?
Was their a guy on the board you wanted?
I just see all this outrage and for what?
More then likely we are going to have to use our newly acquired picks to dump more cap space. At this point id trade Reddish to anyone willing to take him without picks attached. He is not a good basketball player
Yeah i get it..Its not that i am positive, i am neutral right now, i am trying to wait for it to play out..
It is time for this front office to take a swing and if all this is a precursor to that, than fantastic but if its not snd its the same team plus brunson i am going to be pissed..
Now if they get rid of Randle, Burks and Noel and its Brunson and the kids, then awesome..
I am just waiting haha
Are you mad because presumably going after Brunson?
Are you mad because you loved Kemba?
Was their a guy on the board you wanted?
I just see all this outrage and for what?
People expressed their thoughts on the other thread. And you were an active participant in the thread. I read what their concerns are. Why are you asking again?
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Are you mad aimply because they didnt get anyone?
Are you mad because presumably going after Brunson?
Are you mad because you loved Kemba?
Was their a guy on the board you wanted?
I just see all this outrage and for what?
People expressed their thoughts on the other thread. And you were an active participant in the thread. I read what their concerns are. Why are you asking again?
I just saw a bunch of people conplaining, was trying to consolidate the pain 😊
Are you mad because presumably going after Brunson?
Are you mad because you loved Kemba?
Was their a guy on the board you wanted?
I just see all this outrage and for what?
I have never seen so much anger about not taking a player in a weak draft and a guy that 90% of the fans have no clue who they are other than watching highlight films and reading scouting reports. its not like they passed on the next ja morant
Clearing money is great, but the best players have shown time and again they don't want to sign with the Knicks for many reasons, including they don't want to work for Dolan.
Agreed, i wonder if a Brogdon deal is still in the works where they take Randle and a salary for Brogdon
I'll keep saying this. This draft sucked. Put names to the picks. Who did we miss out on? This build up to the draft was littered with comments how the players at 11 would be nothing more than role players. We got 2 additional picks to trade down and then got rid of Kemba on a swap of firsts. No, this is nothing to be jumping up and down about but the constant bitching from Knicks fans about everything is unbearable. They are damned if they do and damned if they don't. They have made dumbass moves forever like getting Antonio McDysse (sp?). We have always had to dig out of a huge hole with no assets for a chance to sign big name FAs that never come. This regime brings in Obi, IQ, Grimes, McBride, Sims and has loaded up on picks. We are in great position to make a move. The problem Knicks fans have is the move hasn't been made yet. And, as I asked in the other thread, what NBA moves were made that the Knicks really missed out on? The last couple of years have been pretty quiet. I also stated the ones that I discussed with my friend were Haliburton, Ball, and Derozen. But, seriously, are any of those players worth going all in for? No. They just would have made us slightly better.
Knicks fans don't want to hear it but patience is a virtue right now. If big name players were being moved the last two years and this regime sat on their ass then fine. The problem is that fans have waited decades and want something done yesterday. Nothing they did deserves huge praise but on the flip side, nothing they've done deserves to be shit on. Nothing that happened last night was changing this franchise around and that includes Ivey. Multiple moves still need to be made.
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Are you mad aimply because they didnt get anyone?
Are you mad because presumably going after Brunson?
Are you mad because you loved Kemba?
Was their a guy on the board you wanted?
I just see all this outrage and for what?
I have never seen so much anger about not taking a player in a weak draft and a guy that 90% of the fans have no clue who they are other than watching highlight films and reading scouting reports. its not like they passed on the next ja morant
Who says it’s a weak draft? The Knicks FO has no clue on how to build a team.
Essentially they traded the 11th pick last night for 3 firsts, 2 of which are in 2023, a better draft than last night.
They also saved $14mm which will be used towards Jalen Brunson’s offer.
Its a smart plan…provided they get Brunson.
Miami did this last year with OKC.
Also the 23 draft is supposed to be loaded, teams may take the risk to acquire one of these 23 picks just at the chance to have another pick in this draft
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In comment 15740149 nygiants16 said:
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Are you mad aimply because they didnt get anyone?
Are you mad because presumably going after Brunson?
Are you mad because you loved Kemba?
Was their a guy on the board you wanted?
I just see all this outrage and for what?
I have never seen so much anger about not taking a player in a weak draft and a guy that 90% of the fans have no clue who they are other than watching highlight films and reading scouting reports. its not like they passed on the next ja morant
Who says it’s a weak draft? The Knicks FO has no clue on how to build a team.
So who did you want them to take? Remeber the Knicks already have 8 players under 24 that are going to need and want playing time..Who were you taking?
You would be bitching that the team still sucks, they essentially did what Presti has done for the past couple of years, acquire a ton of firsts..
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Instead, we have a CAA flunky and his associated menagerie of grifters callin' the shots. Thanks Dolan...
You would be bitching that the team still sucks, they essentially did what Presti has done for the past couple of years, acquire a ton of firsts..
Exactly!
It’s awful that we spend hours watching and come away not having a clue on what happened until the reporters can finally get some clarity and fill us in the following day. And don’t get me started on the ridiculousness of the pick protections. So even when you hear that your team is getting future 1sts, you still have no idea if they will even be able to use them. The entire event and process is just a confusing mess.
This was not an exciting draft to me. Granted, I don't know shit, but there are much worse things than kicking the can.
I do believe that this is a solid (yes, unspectacular) group of young players on the roster. The key to unlocking their potential is taking the ball out of Randle's hands (hopefully trading him) and getting it into a capable, smart, tough lead guard like Brunson.
It's pretty clear now that there was no realistic path to the Knicks getting Ivey. Based on how aggressive they were with both Sacramento and Detroit it stands to reason that the only way they could've gotten it done was to risk everything. Fans would be an uproar if that happened...
Link - ( New Window )
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Instead, we have a CAA flunky and his associated menagerie of grifters callin' the shots. Thanks Dolan...
You would be bitching that the team still sucks, they essentially did what Presti has done for the past couple of years, acquire a ton of firsts..
Don't tell me what I would or wouldn't be doing douchebag. Get your tongue out of your Uncle Leon's arsehole.
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In comment 15740184 Optimus-NY said:
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Instead, we have a CAA flunky and his associated menagerie of grifters callin' the shots. Thanks Dolan...
You would be bitching that the team still sucks, they essentially did what Presti has done for the past couple of years, acquire a ton of firsts..
Don't tell me what I would or wouldn't be doing douchebag. Get your tongue out of your Uncle Leon's arsehole.
😀 good one
So apparently, expiring deals are not easy to move because last night they traded a 9 million dollar player for 4 second rounders and a pick swap.
And we traded a #11 pick for 2 (I know it was 3 but we flipped one) that probably won't ever be as high as the pick that we traded them for. Combine that with the fact that the one thing this front office has shown that it's actually good at, drafting players, didn't happen last night.
The fans want to see a plan. Or at least make sense of something. We got more of the same "keeping our powder dry for when a star becomes available."
But basically it boils down to the thinking that this front office is paralyzed by indecision on players so they are constantly kicking the can down the road.
I do believe that this is a solid (yes, unspectacular) group of young players on the roster. The key to unlocking their potential is taking the ball out of Randle's hands (hopefully trading him) and getting it into a capable, smart, tough lead guard like Brunson.
Won't happen if Thibs is still the coach though.
If Rose thinks Brunson is some type of large contract star, then we are in way worse shape than we think we are, and that’s saying something.
Bottom line is, you can’t just keep punting year over year in hopes of landing something. They basically have spent the last 2 drafts on no players. That is absolutely pathetic.
So apparently, expiring deals are not easy to move because last night they traded a 9 million dollar player for 4 second rounders and a pick swap.
And we traded a #11 pick for 2 (I know it was 3 but we flipped one) that probably won't ever be as high as the pick that we traded them for. Combine that with the fact that the one thing this front office has shown that it's actually good at, drafting players, didn't happen last night.
The fans want to see a plan. Or at least make sense of something. We got more of the same "keeping our powder dry for when a star becomes available."
But basically it boils down to the thinking that this front office is paralyzed by indecision on players so they are constantly kicking the can down the road.
It was 3 picks though because they got one back in return for trading one that they got. It should tell you all you need to know about how teams viewed this draft class that all it took to get 13 was one of the 3 picks we got for 11 and some second rounders.
I agree though that the plan needs to become apparent sooner rather than later but the draft is really only the appetizer to the offseason. Now through the middle of July is really the main course so we have to see how the next few weeks play out.
They also got the Bucks 2025 top 4 protected pick
If Rose thinks Brunson is some type of large contract star, then we are in way worse shape than we think we are, and that’s saying something.
Bottom line is, you can’t just keep punting year over year in hopes of landing something. They basically have spent the last 2 drafts on no players. That is absolutely pathetic.
They got no players last year?
If Rose thinks Brunson is some type of large contract star, then we are in way worse shape than we think we are, and that’s saying something.
Bottom line is, you can’t just keep punting year over year in hopes of landing something. They basically have spent the last 2 drafts on no players. That is absolutely pathetic.
They traded down last year and then took Grimes. Here are the list of players taken between their original pick and Grimes:
Keon Johnson, Isaiah Jackson, Usman Garuba, Josh Christopher. Who did they miss out on by trading down?
Montero came into this past season as a hyped prospect, but it’s hard to see how his set of tools turns into an NBA starter
worthy of a first-round pick. His margin for error at this level of size and strength is essentially zero in a modern NBA that
prizes perimeter length. He’s a questionable shooter and has some flaws that lead to inefficient play. In a league with a mix of
long-term NBA prospects and lower-level college-quality prospects where he was among the oldest and most developed players,
Montero was good when he dominated the ball, but didn’t really stand out at an elite level because of his lack of efficiency.
He posted a 50.1 true-shooting percentage, a reflection of him not quite looking levels above the competition like many
expected. Montero is a top-60 player for me just because he becomes interesting if the shooting off the bounce ever pans out.
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The reporting I saw is we ended up with 3 firsts, not 2. 3 in from OKC, 1 out to CHA for Duren, then 1 more back in from DET for Duren.
They also got the Bucks 2025 top 4 protected pick
That's the one they got from DET.
Yeah but that's still 3 firsts. It's a slightly worse pick (most likely barring a Greak Freak injury) but it's really not significantly worse if Jamal Murray (and to a lesser extent MPJ) is back healthy this year as expected.
Everything makes sense, but only if both of those things actually happen. We need to actually get Brunson with this cap space. And we need to turn these picks into star level players. You have to figure that Rose knows he needs to make the big deal he’s been brought here to make in the next year or so. Dolan won’t be patient forever. If he can’t get it done, Dolan will find someone else who can.
Are you mad because presumably going after Brunson?
Are you mad because you loved Kemba?
Was their a guy on the board you wanted?
I just see all this outrage and for what?
I am mad because there is no real precedent set of the Knicks making wise decisions in the last decade. They make moves with no real positive outcome. There is no evidence that they hire capable executives who have a vision for team-building. Why would anyone trust anything that the Knicks do at this point? It never works out. The players that matter won’t come here, the players we want to leave turn into albatrosses. We have a terrible owner. We make the playoffs once in awhile on a fluke giving us hope only to settle right back into the cycle of misery. Nothing here is sustainable and nothing we did tonight will likely matter.
Why am I a fan then right? I’ve followed the Knicks as a kid throughout the ‘90’s. It’s too late for me to swap. But I have gone from an active fan to merely passively following them these days. The league is set up for teams with multiple star players to rise. The Knicks have zero players that can make a real difference or lead this team. Until they get some, who even knows when, they don’t deserve the benefit of the doubt on anything they do. They just haven’t proven they remotely know what they are doing.
Everything makes sense, but only if both of those things actually happen. We need to actually get Brunson with this cap space. And we need to turn these picks into star level players. You have to figure that Rose knows he needs to make the big deal he’s been brought here to make in the next year or so. Dolan won’t be patient forever. If he can’t get it done, Dolan will find someone else who can.
Don't be surprised if some of those picks have to be attached to players to clear more cap space though.
Putting together that Jrue Holiday package for Dejounte Murray sure is a little easier today though than it was yesterday. Just saying!
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Clearing space to sign Brunson because he’s the best available PG in FA.
Everything makes sense, but only if both of those things actually happen. We need to actually get Brunson with this cap space. And we need to turn these picks into star level players. You have to figure that Rose knows he needs to make the big deal he’s been brought here to make in the next year or so. Dolan won’t be patient forever. If he can’t get it done, Dolan will find someone else who can.
Don't be surprised if some of those picks have to be attached to players to clear more cap space though.
They can get to Brunson space using the stretch provision at this point and I bet Burks has pretty much neutral value (maybe it takes a second round pick). I doubt they're going to use 1sts to move off other contracts unless the plan extends further than just Brunson. They're at about $20M now already.
Brunson and Mitchell would be an excellent pairing
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if they don't land Brunson then this looks farcical. There is no planet it's Brogdon and realistic fans are cool with it.
Putting together that Jrue Holiday package for Dejounte Murray sure is a little easier today though than it was yesterday. Just saying!
Well yeah, Murray is an excellent player lol I'll rephrase...if they don't land a BIG-TIME player thanks to this move... Brunson, Murray etc then it's a LOLKNICKS moment, and don't give me "well now they have ammo for next off-season", they are clearly trying to win now, the asset accumulation stuff makes sense when you're tanking for Victor, not when you're trying to be a top 3-5 seed. If It's a Brogdon (or worse) type at PG this season, I don't see how anybody can be happy about this FO other than "well they have some decent young players" which we could have said... 2 years ago.
Clearing cap space reportedly for Jalen Brunson, who played several years in the league, and had one good season. Julius Randle had an excellent season 2 years ago, now he and his contract are considered negative assets. It doesn't help that Brunson is the team president's godson and the organization just hired his father. A hefty nepotism contract is not the answer for this roster that lacks talent.
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Are you mad aimply because they didnt get anyone?
Are you mad because presumably going after Brunson?
Are you mad because you loved Kemba?
Was their a guy on the board you wanted?
I just see all this outrage and for what?
I am mad because there is no real precedent set of the Knicks making wise decisions in the last decade. They make moves with no real positive outcome. There is no evidence that they hire capable executives who have a vision for team-building. Why would anyone trust anything that the Knicks do at this point? It never works out. The players that matter won’t come here, the players we want to leave turn into albatrosses. We have a terrible owner. We make the playoffs once in awhile on a fluke giving us hope only to settle right back into the cycle of misery. Nothing here is sustainable and nothing we did tonight will likely matter.
Why am I a fan then right? I’ve followed the Knicks as a kid throughout the ‘90’s. It’s too late for me to swap. But I have gone from an active fan to merely passively following them these days. The league is set up for teams with multiple star players to rise. The Knicks have zero players that can make a real difference or lead this team. Until they get some, who even knows when, they don’t deserve the benefit of the doubt on anything they do. They just haven’t proven they remotely know what they are doing.
Well said. What a contrast between how Dolan deals with the Rangers and he he deals with the Knicks. I feel great about the Rangers' future, but feel the exact opposite about the Knicks. The good thing about Dolan is that he's appeared to have taken a step back lately. We know what happened last year after the Tom Wilson incident to end the season with the Rangers. Dolan got involved and firings ensued. This thing of theirs, the CAA Cosa Nostra, has taken over the NYKs. Knicks fans have been patient for 20 years and will continue to be so if there was competent leadership involved. Leon Rose is a farce, always has been. If a guy like Sam Presti were leading the charge and given carte blanche to do what needs to be done, then Knicks fans would feel a lot differently, but alas, that isn't the case.
Clearing cap space reportedly for Jalen Brunson, who played several years in the league, and had one good season. Julius Randle had an excellent season 2 years ago, now he and his contract are considered negative assets. It doesn't help that Brunson is the team president's godson and the organization just hired his father. A hefty nepotism contract is not the answer for this roster that lacks talent.
How did they trade 3 1sts?
What player(s) can take the Knicks from where they are to a legit contender?
I don't think it exists.
That’s true but if that’s the case why bother telling anyone they shouldn’t be mad? It seems like the Knicks and the Knick fanbase had a guy they liked (Ivey). The guy everyone wants literally NEVER falls to the Knicks. Why can’t people be upset about that?
1) Ok - they did not love anybody at 11, I think we can give them a pass on that
2) They traded for extra 1st round picks in a draft that is perceived to better than this one - OK
3) The part that makes them a laughingstock is attaching a 1st round pick to dump Kemba Walker's 9m expiring contract. They are trying to get rid of free agents they just signed last year to clear up space for Jalen Brunson.
Even the biggest Jalen Brunson fan knows he is a solid NBA player, but not going to move the needle to a championship.
Just a tough night to have any confidence that Knicks have any clue what they are doing or how to build a team that does not include CAA clients.
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that's any Knick fans right but it also has nothing to do with last night. If you don't have any faith in this front office/org than anything they did last night short of trading 11 for Ja Morant would leave the same result today
That’s true but if that’s the case why bother telling anyone they shouldn’t be mad? It seems like the Knicks and the Knick fanbase had a guy they liked (Ivey). The guy everyone wants literally NEVER falls to the Knicks. Why can’t people be upset about that?
Nobody said dont be mad, but they tried on Ivey, they offered 3 different deals to Detroit and detroit said no..
They offered 4 1sts to sacremento and they said no..
What else did you want them to do for Ivey?
Clearing cap space reportedly for Jalen Brunson, who played several years in the league, and had one good season. Julius Randle had an excellent season 2 years ago, now he and his contract are considered negative assets. It doesn't help that Brunson is the team president's godson and the organization just hired his father. A hefty nepotism contract is not the answer for this roster that lacks talent.
Brunson is not Julius Randle. He's gotten better every year he's been in the league while Randle's career has been up and down year to year. He also got a chance to play a decent amount last year without Luka when he was hurt and he shined running the show. All the reports on his character, personality and work ethic have always been glowing (unlike Julius Randle). There's no reason to believe last year was a flash in the pan.
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that's any Knick fans right but it also has nothing to do with last night. If you don't have any faith in this front office/org than anything they did last night short of trading 11 for Ja Morant would leave the same result today
That’s true but if that’s the case why bother telling anyone they shouldn’t be mad? It seems like the Knicks and the Knick fanbase had a guy they liked (Ivey). The guy everyone wants literally NEVER falls to the Knicks. Why can’t people be upset about that?
I didn't say you shouldn't be mad but it's not the organization's fault Ivey didn't fall to the
If you know, you know
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In comment 15740222 Strahan91 said:
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that's any Knick fans right but it also has nothing to do with last night. If you don't have any faith in this front office/org than anything they did last night short of trading 11 for Ja Morant would leave the same result today
That’s true but if that’s the case why bother telling anyone they shouldn’t be mad? It seems like the Knicks and the Knick fanbase had a guy they liked (Ivey). The guy everyone wants literally NEVER falls to the Knicks. Why can’t people be upset about that?
Nobody said dont be mad, but they tried on Ivey, they offered 3 different deals to Detroit and detroit said no..
They offered 4 1sts to sacremento and they said no..
What else did you want them to do for Ivey?
It’s not that they didn’t try, that’s fine. It’s just that they never succeed or close the deal. This isn’t just a rant about the constant ineptitude of management over the years. It’s also a rant about awful luck and never being able to close. Year in and year out we are among the most terrible teams in the league yet how often do we have a top pick? Top 3? We seem to always be picking just outside where talent is difference-making. Same with free agents we are linked to. We always miss out on top, difference-making names and have to overpay for whoever is leftover.
It’s just tiring. The culmination of poor management and awful luck is draining. We are always the laughingstock of the league and last night was no exception. Reddit and Twitter a buzz we Knicks memes. This is how it’s like to be Jets fans. It blows. Again, why even try to defend what the Knicks are doing? Bad luck prevails with MSG and management hasn’t proven they have a clue.
I guess if Giannis opts out in '24, it could happen. I think the Kemba move clears up enough cap to sign Brunson, or at least close to it, but I think all of the moves make me think they are stockpiling picks for an S&T.
Kyrie? If not, who else would it be?
Blazers assessed the situation, applied themselves to tanking by sitting players, and lost 21 of their last 23.
Knicks applied themselves to winning the championship of the teams that weren't going to make the playoffs.
Come draft time, Blazers get Shaedon Sharpe. Knicks find themselves not in a position to draft or move up for any player they are interested in.
There is no one associated with NYK who has a vision beyond winning the next game on the schedule and preserving his job thereby.
- 2 years with the most cap space in the league and nothing to show for it. Please stop with the nonsense that they are all "tradeable contracts" too. It just cost them a 1st and 2 second round picks to get off an expiring 9 million deal. Moving Noel and even more so Randle/ Fournier will be a very heavy cost.
- How could you not be prepared to have cap space for Brunson? Inexcusable.
-We'll see if this is "bad draft" but Presti sure didn't think so. And those future 1sts are heavily protected and most likely not conveying for a few years...
Overall this front office has been flat out bad at asset management and last night only reaffirmed that.
Based on his board it seems like he likes the value on both Keels and Montero
Blazers assessed the situation, applied themselves to tanking by sitting players, and lost 21 of their last 23.
Knicks applied themselves to winning the championship of the teams that weren't going to make the playoffs.
Come draft time, Blazers get Shaedon Sharpe. Knicks find themselves not in a position to draft or move up for any player they are interested in.
There is no one associated with NYK who has a vision beyond winning the next game on the schedule and preserving his job thereby.
This.
Blazers assessed the situation, applied themselves to tanking by sitting players, and lost 21 of their last 23.
Knicks applied themselves to winning the championship of the teams that weren't going to make the playoffs.
Come draft time, Blazers get Shaedon Sharpe. Knicks find themselves not in a position to draft or move up for any player they are interested in.
There is no one associated with NYK who has a vision beyond winning the next game on the schedule and preserving his job thereby.
That’s not what happened though. Portland lost Lillard and then Simons, their two best players. It was not by design
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They ultimately traded 3 first round picks last night and 4 second round picks to gain 3 first round picks and cap space.
Clearing cap space reportedly for Jalen Brunson, who played several years in the league, and had one good season. Julius Randle had an excellent season 2 years ago, now he and his contract are considered negative assets. It doesn't help that Brunson is the team president's godson and the organization just hired his father. A hefty nepotism contract is not the answer for this roster that lacks talent.
How did they trade 3 1sts?
11- Dieng
13- Duren
One of the three picks they received from OKC
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had the same record.
Blazers assessed the situation, applied themselves to tanking by sitting players, and lost 21 of their last 23.
Knicks applied themselves to winning the championship of the teams that weren't going to make the playoffs.
Come draft time, Blazers get Shaedon Sharpe. Knicks find themselves not in a position to draft or move up for any player they are interested in.
There is no one associated with NYK who has a vision beyond winning the next game on the schedule and preserving his job thereby.
This.
Lillard was hurt, they had no choice but to play g leaguers..
Knicks played Iq, Rj, Obi and Sims more minutes and won more..What did you want the Knicks to do? bench all their young players and bring up gleaguers?
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In comment 15740235 Reeses Pieces said:
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They ultimately traded 3 first round picks last night and 4 second round picks to gain 3 first round picks and cap space.
Clearing cap space reportedly for Jalen Brunson, who played several years in the league, and had one good season. Julius Randle had an excellent season 2 years ago, now he and his contract are considered negative assets. It doesn't help that Brunson is the team president's godson and the organization just hired his father. A hefty nepotism contract is not the answer for this roster that lacks talent.
How did they trade 3 1sts?
11- Dieng
13- Duren
One of the three picks they received from OKC
Never had 13 to trade..traded 11 for 3 firsts..
Trade 1 and 4 2nds to get rid of kemba and got 1 back..
So essentially trade 1 first
That’s not what happened though. Portland lost Lillard and then Simons, their two best players. It was not by design
Lillard had been out for months by March; they didn't lose him then.
Simons they sat when he could have come back. They wanted to lose.
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In comment 15740235 Reeses Pieces said:
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They ultimately traded 3 first round picks last night and 4 second round picks to gain 3 first round picks and cap space.
Clearing cap space reportedly for Jalen Brunson, who played several years in the league, and had one good season. Julius Randle had an excellent season 2 years ago, now he and his contract are considered negative assets. It doesn't help that Brunson is the team president's godson and the organization just hired his father. A hefty nepotism contract is not the answer for this roster that lacks talent.
How did they trade 3 1sts?
11- Dieng
13- Duren
One of the three picks they received from OKC
That one of those three picks was traded for Duren and they got one in return.
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That’s not what happened though. Portland lost Lillard and then Simons, their two best players. It was not by design
Lillard had been out for months by March; they didn't lose him then.
Simons they sat when he could have come back. They wanted to lose.
Yes exactly my point. They didn’t purposely tank. Portland has always been a one man show with Lillard
Also the Leon Rose/Knicks management defense team is such a weird hill to die on
The only thing worse than overpaying Brunson or trading for Brogdon would be signing Kyrie
2) We drafted a Duke player to piss off Greg
They also sat Josh Hart the last six weeks, claiming he had a sore knee.
They wanted to lose.
If Rose thinks Brunson is some type of large contract star, then we are in way worse shape than we think we are, and that’s saying something.
Bottom line is, you can’t just keep punting year over year in hopes of landing something. They basically have spent the last 2 drafts on no players. That is absolutely pathetic.
Let’s see how it plays out
Also the Leon Rose/Knicks management defense team is such a weird hill to die on
Isnt that what they did? they added 3 tradeable 1st round picks, which means they have 8 in the next 4 years
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They traded for a bunch of picks which will basically never be conveyed or when they do, they won’t be significant picks in any draft in any year.
If Rose thinks Brunson is some type of large contract star, then we are in way worse shape than we think we are, and that’s saying something.
Bottom line is, you can’t just keep punting year over year in hopes of landing something. They basically have spent the last 2 drafts on no players. That is absolutely pathetic.
Let’s see how it plays out
How close did we get to an Ivey trade?
Why do people need the GM to come out and publicly announce to the rest of the league what their plans are? That's just not going to happen, do you play poker with your hand laying face up on the table for everyone else to see?
Who cares what Leon Rose has to say? Dave Gettleman used to talk to the media, does that make the job that he did with the Giants any better?
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In comment 15740208 ryanmkeane said:
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They traded for a bunch of picks which will basically never be conveyed or when they do, they won’t be significant picks in any draft in any year.
If Rose thinks Brunson is some type of large contract star, then we are in way worse shape than we think we are, and that’s saying something.
Bottom line is, you can’t just keep punting year over year in hopes of landing something. They basically have spent the last 2 drafts on no players. That is absolutely pathetic.
Let’s see how it plays out
How close did we get to an Ivey trade?
With the Pistons there was never even a shot. Soon as Kings took Murray there was no chance the Pistons were ever trading Ivey.
With the Kings it wasn’t close but they decided they wanted Murray more than 11+ future firsts
The lack of luck in the draft lottery is just astounding.. it's hard to comprehend.
To have NEVER moved up since the first overall lottery is just mind boggling.
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In comment 15740303 ajr2456 said:
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In comment 15740208 ryanmkeane said:
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They traded for a bunch of picks which will basically never be conveyed or when they do, they won’t be significant picks in any draft in any year.
If Rose thinks Brunson is some type of large contract star, then we are in way worse shape than we think we are, and that’s saying something.
Bottom line is, you can’t just keep punting year over year in hopes of landing something. They basically have spent the last 2 drafts on no players. That is absolutely pathetic.
Let’s see how it plays out
How close did we get to an Ivey trade?
With the Pistons there was never even a shot. Soon as Kings took Murray there was no chance the Pistons were ever trading Ivey.
With the Kings it wasn’t close but they decided they wanted Murray more than 11+ future firsts
Talk me off my gut feeling that the Knicks are in the Kyrie sweepstakes
You're right of course, but OKC has done a better job bottoming out and getting higher draft picks. They also have cap space, way more picks than us, and just drafted 3 players in the top 12.
So they've made the evaluation that they're not competing for a championship, so they need to lose a lot of games so they get higher draft picks.
I think that's a pretty big distinction.
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Accomplished in the last 5 years? He’s basically done exactly what the Knicks have done, minus making the playoffs
You're right of course, but OKC has done a better job bottoming out and getting higher draft picks. They also have cap space, way more picks than us, and just drafted 3 players in the top 12.
So they've made the evaluation that they're not competing for a championship, so they need to lose a lot of games so they get higher draft picks.
I think that's a pretty big distinction.
So you would be ok with the Knicks tanking for3 or 4 years?
Blazers assessed the situation, applied themselves to tanking by sitting players, and lost 21 of their last 23.
Knicks applied themselves to winning the championship of the teams that weren't going to make the playoffs.
Come draft time, Blazers get Shaedon Sharpe. Knicks find themselves not in a position to draft or move up for any player they are interested in.
There is no one associated with NYK who has a vision beyond winning the next game on the schedule and preserving his job thereby.
Truth
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Into better positions to take swings at potentially impactful players. Im tired of the “Well shucks they tried” mentality. Trying doesn’t make anyone a great GM. Gentleman tried a lot and he is universally shit on here. Make things happen dont just say you tried. That is never a way to measure success.
Also the Leon Rose/Knicks management defense team is such a weird hill to die on
Isnt that what they did? they added 3 tradeable 1st round picks, which means they have 8 in the next 4 years
All protected and two of them are heavily-lottery protected.
In 2020, they made a trade with the Jazz by sending the 27th and 38th picks in exchange for the 23rd pick. They later used the 23rd pick to secure the 25th and 33rd picks from Minnesota. In doing so, they somehow turned their original 27th and 38th picks into two better picks (25 and 33).
Which is great. That's excellent. But then the 33rd pick went to the Clippers for a 2023 second round pick. So one of the highest second round picks you can have for a future second? Yes, presumably future drafts will be deeper because of the HS players eligibility, but still a very curious move. Just one future second round pick three years from now for 33rd overall? Bad value.
And then last year was all sorts of crazy. The Knicks entered the Draft with the 19th, 21st, 32nd and 58th picks. The Hornets sent a heavily-protected future first-round pick for the 19th overall pick. Terrible value.
Then the 21st pick was sent to the Clippers for the 25th pick and a future second-round pick. Uhhhhh, okay....Not the best value.
Knicks sent #32 for picks #34 and #36. Excellent deal by Leon Rose here.
And then this year, with the exception of the Bucks pick which we won't get until 2025, we got a few heavily-protected first rounders and wound up not even taking anyone in the first round. We got rid of our lottery pick and a shitload of second round picks to dump a contract because we got buyers remorse one year later.
It's the Knicks way. We fuck up and then trade away valuable assets in order to cover up our fuck up. Then we use that cap savings to sign or trade for an expensive guy who inevitably turns out to be a disappointment. And then the cycle begins anew. Rinse. Repeat.
Still terrible.
So you would be ok with the Knicks tanking for3 or 4 years?
Why not? Is scrapping for the 8th playoff seed really doing anything for you?
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In comment 15740306 ajr2456 said:
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Accomplished in the last 5 years? He’s basically done exactly what the Knicks have done, minus making the playoffs
You're right of course, but OKC has done a better job bottoming out and getting higher draft picks. They also have cap space, way more picks than us, and just drafted 3 players in the top 12.
So they've made the evaluation that they're not competing for a championship, so they need to lose a lot of games so they get higher draft picks.
I think that's a pretty big distinction.
So you would be ok with the Knicks tanking for3 or 4 years?
Obviously our situations are not the same. But if we had 2 star players who got traded away and got a glut of picks, yes I would be ok with us tanking for that long.
But we didn't have star players to begin with. So we haven't had our team gutted.
We've just made a number of moves over the past 20+ years that have kept us in total mediocrity.
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Can the Knicks ever get a generational player this century?
The lack of luck in the draft lottery is just astounding.. it's hard to comprehend.
To have NEVER moved up since the first overall lottery is just mind boggling.
The Warriors picked higher than we ever picked (Ewing aside) and they only sucked for two years. And they just won the championship...and the picks (Wiseman, Kuminga and Moody) didn't even contribute!
Meanwhile, the Knicks have shitty lottery luck and have been in a 20+ year rebuild and haven't sniffed the modicum of success the Warriors have.
Yes we moved Kemba's salary but what is our actual Salary cap space now? Rumor's are that Brunson is looking for 25 mil a year, how much more cap space do we have to clear and is there even teams available that can absorb cap space without us taking something back.
Yes we moved Kemba's salary but what is our actual Salary cap space now? Rumor's are that Brunson is looking for 25 mil a year, how much more cap space do we have to clear and is there even teams available that can absorb cap space without us taking something back.
We’re at $20M after declining Gibson’s option
"Done exactly what the Knicks have done"? What? He's nailed some big trades and made some nice picks- Giddey/ Dort. Not to mention his past draft history which is pretty hard to beat.
Can you name one move that Leon Rose has absolutely nailed? And he didn't exactly build that playoff team to put it lightly.
They’re in a great spot. Giddey was a great choice and obviously got lucky to get up to 2 with the ping pong balls. They also got really lucky that Kawhi going to LAC was dependent on them figuring out a way to acquire Paul George because in a vacuum that was an insane haul for PG
But when you have stars to trade and you are getting multiple firsts and SGA, its easy to bottom out because you have a ton of assets...
Its alao easy when the fanbase and media do not care about you..
The Knicks tanked the year KP was hurt and were ripped apart by the media for being so bad and laughed at..
Its easy to say oh tank for a few years and work your way up, if you have no lottery luck then all that tanking is for nothing, the Kings have been tanking for 20 years
I gave up trying to figure out what Sacramento was doing when they took Bagley over Doncic. I thought nothing they could do would surprise me again until they gave up Haliburton for Sabonis then there was last night haha
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I would be done watching if we get Kyrie, I want no part of that guy.
Yes we moved Kemba's salary but what is our actual Salary cap space now? Rumor's are that Brunson is looking for 25 mil a year, how much more cap space do we have to clear and is there even teams available that can absorb cap space without us taking something back.
We’re at $20M after declining Gibson’s option
Is there a reliable website for salaries? Most sites I see have us at 2 mil cap space before shedding Kemba's 9.1 mil and Taj 5.1 mil if we waive him. That's only 16 million in space.
We would have to move one of Noel/Burks/Rose to have enough space to sign Brunson without having to deal with Mark Cuban and a sign and trade (which a man of his ego will probably not do).
It’s awful that we spend hours watching and come away not having a clue on what happened until the reporters can finally get some clarity and fill us in the following day. And don’t get me started on the ridiculousness of the pick protections. So even when you hear that your team is getting future 1sts, you still have no idea if they will even be able to use them. The entire event and process is just a confusing mess.
I'll add another gripe to this - why/how does a protected future first eventually become a 2nd if not conveyed by X timeframe? If pick protections are implemented (particularly when the protection span several years as they do with the picks the Knicks acquired), the back end of those protections should be an unprotected 1st at the end if the pick hasn't conveyed.
Like, the protections get slightly less restrictive over time to increase the likelihood that the pick will eventually convey, and then all of a sudden it flips the other direction and if it hasn't conveyed by a certain point it's no longer a 1st round pick at all? So not only have you lost value over time by waiting for the pick to actually convey to you, but now that sunk cost in the form of time actually has no value at all and you get an even lesser pick but half a decade later.
That has never made any sense to me.
We’re at $20M after declining Gibson’s option
Not saying you're wrong but poster on Knickerblogger says $16.4M:
"Well, the cap needs explaining, right?
1 – Randle’s incentives are now deemed unlikely so his salary has come down from 26.1M to 23.7M; That’s 2.4M in savings;
(at this point only Taj’s non guaranteed money is keeping us above the cap, by a little margin – 2.4M)
2 – Once the cap hold for the 11th pick and Kemba got off the books, we are below the cap by 11.2M;
3 – If we waive Taj (5.2M) we get to 16.4M; That’s the practical cap we have now;
People that are talking about 18M in cap are assuming we waive the cap holds, but why would we waive Mitch’s cap hold (1.8M) ??"
Ita not like they are a team filled with 30 year olds..
Iq,Rj,Obi,Grimes,Sims,Mitch all showed they can be valued rotational players for the future. They all showed they can contribute on a good team and in some games carried the Knicks to wins..
They have 8 firsts in the next 4 years, where the fall we are not sure yet but they can be used in trades or used to add more players..
They now have 20 million in cap space where they can possibly sign a PG that is 25 and proved he can do it in big spots..
Stop acting like the cupboard is dry and have nothing
It's so laughable. They were bad and they got criticized by the media? Ok. So what? They were bad last year and got just as much criticism. NY and OKC are different in that regard but it shouldn't make a difference because people have been saying LOLKnicks for much longer than that.
You do whatever it takes to build a good team. The fact of the matter is that this front office has gone out of its way to make any decisions of consequence in 2 years.
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Presti actually understands what Rose seems to not be able to grasp - you have to bottom out and be totally comfortable with that in order to build with star type talent. He’s done it in only a matter of a few years, and that was after making the playoffs a ton of times.
But when you have stars to trade and you are getting multiple firsts and SGA, its easy to bottom out because you have a ton of assets...
Its alao easy when the fanbase and media do not care about you..
The Knicks tanked the year KP was hurt and were ripped apart by the media for being so bad and laughed at..
Its easy to say oh tank for a few years and work your way up, if you have no lottery luck then all that tanking is for nothing, the Kings have been tanking for 20 years
But Presti is the one responsible for acquiring those stars thrugh shrewd moves. i.e. trading for Oladipo, drafting Sabonis that turned into PG13 that then turned into SGA and all those picks.
You have to nail small moves on the fringes and the big swings as well. Rose has not proven he can do either. Presti also has a clear direction while we have no idea what the plan is for the Knicks.
Presti also openly speaks the media consistently. It has nothing to do with their performance but I have no idea why more fans don't want to hear from the president of the team. Bizarre situation.
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The NBA has to do something to fix the draft if they care at all about the viewer/fan experience. It is dreadful. The rule that teams cannot trade their own 1st round picks in back to back years does not work and it just creates confusion on draft night. Teams still trade the picks, they simply wait until after the pick is made. It leads to us having no clue if the player being taken is being taken for our team or another team.
It’s awful that we spend hours watching and come away not having a clue on what happened until the reporters can finally get some clarity and fill us in the following day. And don’t get me started on the ridiculousness of the pick protections. So even when you hear that your team is getting future 1sts, you still have no idea if they will even be able to use them. The entire event and process is just a confusing mess.
I'll add another gripe to this - why/how does a protected future first eventually become a 2nd if not conveyed by X timeframe? If pick protections are implemented (particularly when the protection span several years as they do with the picks the Knicks acquired), the back end of those protections should be an unprotected 1st at the end if the pick hasn't conveyed.
Like, the protections get slightly less restrictive over time to increase the likelihood that the pick will eventually convey, and then all of a sudden it flips the other direction and if it hasn't conveyed by a certain point it's no longer a 1st round pick at all? So not only have you lost value over time by waiting for the pick to actually convey to you, but now that sunk cost in the form of time actually has no value at all and you get an even lesser pick but half a decade later.
That has never made any sense to me.
Yep. Fantastic point and it’s always been curious to me. As you said, if you trade for a pick but cannot use it year after year, how the hell does it make sense to screw that team even further by downgrading the pick to a 2nd rounder eventually? Makes zero sense.
It's so laughable. They were bad and they got criticized by the media? Ok. So what? They were bad last year and got just as much criticism. NY and OKC are different in that regard but it shouldn't make a difference because people have been saying LOLKnicks for much longer than that.
You do whatever it takes to build a good team. The fact of the matter is that this front office has gone out of its way to make any decisions of consequence in 2 years.
So tanking is the only way you build a good team? Tanking is the way to go?
They tanked had the worst record and still didnt get the 1st pick, they tanked they got KP and still didnt get the 1st pick..
Tanking is all luck, yeah it looks good now for OKC, what Chet and this french guy doesnt pan out? then what? more tnaking?
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In comment 15740339 ryanmkeane said:
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Presti actually understands what Rose seems to not be able to grasp - you have to bottom out and be totally comfortable with that in order to build with star type talent. He’s done it in only a matter of a few years, and that was after making the playoffs a ton of times.
But when you have stars to trade and you are getting multiple firsts and SGA, its easy to bottom out because you have a ton of assets...
Its alao easy when the fanbase and media do not care about you..
The Knicks tanked the year KP was hurt and were ripped apart by the media for being so bad and laughed at..
Its easy to say oh tank for a few years and work your way up, if you have no lottery luck then all that tanking is for nothing, the Kings have been tanking for 20 years
But Presti is the one responsible for acquiring those stars thrugh shrewd moves. i.e. trading for Oladipo, drafting Sabonis that turned into PG13 that then turned into SGA and all those picks.
You have to nail small moves on the fringes and the big swings as well. Rose has not proven he can do either. Presti also has a clear direction while we have no idea what the plan is for the Knicks.
Presti also openly speaks the media consistently. It has nothing to do with their performance but I have no idea why more fans don't want to hear from the president of the team. Bizarre situation.
They got all that for PG because Kawhi held the Clippers feet to the fire, in any ither situation he doesnt get what he got, so luck is involved..
What has he added after SGA? Giddey so far looks like a good pick, Lu Dort is a good role player..
Right now its all rainbows because they just added Chet and everyone is excited, but eventually he has to start winning..
and i am not saying he hasnt done a great job of accumilating assets but he is basically just forfeiting seasons
All they’ve done is acquire picks and had some luck hitting on SGA and Dort. They haven’t achieved much, yet
Could they go after kyrie if he’s going to take less? I think they’d look into it but as weird as kyrie is I don’t think he’s going to take another $20 million discount/loss of salary back to back years.
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do you think that Rose gives a shit about the media and getting ripped? He won't even meet with them, what does he care?
It's so laughable. They were bad and they got criticized by the media? Ok. So what? They were bad last year and got just as much criticism. NY and OKC are different in that regard but it shouldn't make a difference because people have been saying LOLKnicks for much longer than that.
You do whatever it takes to build a good team. The fact of the matter is that this front office has gone out of its way to make any decisions of consequence in 2 years.
So tanking is the only way you build a good team? Tanking is the way to go?
They tanked had the worst record and still didnt get the 1st pick, they tanked they got KP and still didnt get the 1st pick..
Tanking is all luck, yeah it looks good now for OKC, what Chet and this french guy doesnt pan out? then what? more tnaking?
I would guess so, yea. Everyone said it, look at the teams that were in the finals. They drafted their stars. And that's the easiest way to change your teams destiny.
So yea, you tank until you find a superstar and then build the team around them. Or you luck into one late like the Bucks and the Nugs.
I'm not saying that the Knicks haven't been insanely unlucky. KP stuff sucked, the changing of the draft odds the one year we actually tank sucked.
But this is how the NBA works now. Free agency is dead. So people either force their way to your team or you draft a superstar and add around them. No one is forcing their way here.
Brunson is not a max player and we are pursuing him like it's a top 10 player. It's obvious this is the whole off-season in a nut shell. Overpaying for mediocre talent is the Knicks way.
I am not disappointed in kicking the picks down the road especially since the FO has drafted well and if they didn't see value okay.
Here is a major disappointment the signing of Randle, Rose, Noel, Fournier, Kemba,and Burks last season we could have saved the space or did 1 year deals as they were not heavily pursued. Which many here were optimistic about the cap friendly deals same that remain optimistic today
Thibs and Randle this a major issue the pace of this team is awful and as long as this duo remains we will drag through another season.
Is the long term future of this organization any clearer today no.
Does it seem the organization has a plan outside of "get Brunson" nope.
Will Thibs continue to let the kids rot on the bench again yep.
The draft was another show of this FO pushing it done the road because they don't have a plan and are hoping for something to fall in their laps.
I would give up next years Knicks pick. I think you need to keep the picks as insurance for Wemby or Scoot if they’re not moving for a star.
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the Dallas 1st and an unprotected Knicks 1st for Dejounte Murray? What if they asked for a lightly protected Knicks 1st instead of the Dallas pick? I was hesitant to meet the reporter asking price for Murray before last night but it’s way more palatable if they can use the three acquired last night
I would give up next years Knicks pick. I think you need to keep the picks as insurance for Wemby or Scoot if they’re not moving for a star.
Wouldnt*
All they’ve done is acquire picks and had some luck hitting on SGA and Dort. They haven’t achieved much, yet
Thats pretty dismissive of those moves to call them luck though. It still has to all work out but they look to be in excellent shape moving forward. Presti has made some really savvy picks.
Meanwhile Leon Rose burns a 1st round pick to dump a 9 million expiring salary. I love Brunson and hope he comes here but there is no way to categorize that as a good move.
In 2.5 years now, can anyone name one great/ savvy/ impressive trade/ signing/ pick by this front office?
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In comment 15740354 Jan in DC said:
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do you think that Rose gives a shit about the media and getting ripped? He won't even meet with them, what does he care?
It's so laughable. They were bad and they got criticized by the media? Ok. So what? They were bad last year and got just as much criticism. NY and OKC are different in that regard but it shouldn't make a difference because people have been saying LOLKnicks for much longer than that.
You do whatever it takes to build a good team. The fact of the matter is that this front office has gone out of its way to make any decisions of consequence in 2 years.
So tanking is the only way you build a good team? Tanking is the way to go?
They tanked had the worst record and still didnt get the 1st pick, they tanked they got KP and still didnt get the 1st pick..
Tanking is all luck, yeah it looks good now for OKC, what Chet and this french guy doesnt pan out? then what? more tnaking?
I would guess so, yea. Everyone said it, look at the teams that were in the finals. They drafted their stars. And that's the easiest way to change your teams destiny.
So yea, you tank until you find a superstar and then build the team around them. Or you luck into one late like the Bucks and the Nugs.
I'm not saying that the Knicks haven't been insanely unlucky. KP stuff sucked, the changing of the draft odds the one year we actually tank sucked.
But this is how the NBA works now. Free agency is dead. So people either force their way to your team or you draft a superstar and add around them. No one is forcing their way here.
But those teams didnt tank, Brown and Tatum were used with Nets picks..
Warriors got Curry at 7, Thompson at 11 and green in the 2nd round..
Its not tanking, ita building through the draft and getting lucky..
The warriors were inept
Ita not like they are a team filled with 30 year olds..
Iq,Rj,Obi,Grimes,Sims,Mitch all showed they can be valued rotational players for the future. They all showed they can contribute on a good team and in some games carried the Knicks to wins..
They have 8 firsts in the next 4 years, where the fall we are not sure yet but they can be used in trades or used to add more players..
They now have 20 million in cap space where they can possibly sign a PG that is 25 and proved he can do it in big spots..
Stop acting like the cupboard is dry and have nothing
The cupboard isn’t bare but neither is it a team built to go deep into the playoffs. It has no superstar player to lead them. They will be good enough not to be a high lottery team, but remain on a treadmill of mediocrity. It’s been 49 years since their last championship, soon to be a half of century 50 years.
Having 4 picks next year improves our chance at Victor or Nick Smith by exactly 0%.
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The Thunder were quick first round exits. You’d be complaining if that was the Knicks every year and calling for heads.
All they’ve done is acquire picks and had some luck hitting on SGA and Dort. They haven’t achieved much, yet
Thats pretty dismissive of those moves to call them luck though. It still has to all work out but they look to be in excellent shape moving forward. Presti has made some really savvy picks.
Meanwhile Leon Rose burns a 1st round pick to dump a 9 million expiring salary. I love Brunson and hope he comes here but there is no way to categorize that as a good move.
In 2.5 years now, can anyone name one great/ savvy/ impressive trade/ signing/ pick by this front office?
Rose trade?
Getting quickley in his frist year moving around picks to get him..
Last year trading back acquiring another pick and still getting Grimes..
Trading their 2nd last year for 2 2nds and getting Mcbride and Rokas..
Drafting Sims with 58..
I don't have a good feeling about his designs as it seems like a Deja Vu, recreating past years attempts to make a quick fix.
Over pay for mid level type players who are good enough to make the Knicks competitive but not become a contending or ascending team.
I will reserve any criticism until I see how it plays out.
I am not concerned about trading out of the first round as I did not see a transcendent player available at their pick.
I also did not mind trading Walker with assets to create CAP space. I like the fact the Rose recognized his mistake in gambling on Walker and cut bait.
This does not portend well for others on the team.
I just hope that the Knicks go young and jettison aging players and give the neophytes a chance.
Randle must go along with Burks, Noel, Rose, Fournier, etc.
Give the young players a chance.
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The Knicks have 8 players under the age of 24 presuming they bring back Mitch..
Ita not like they are a team filled with 30 year olds..
Iq,Rj,Obi,Grimes,Sims,Mitch all showed they can be valued rotational players for the future. They all showed they can contribute on a good team and in some games carried the Knicks to wins..
They have 8 firsts in the next 4 years, where the fall we are not sure yet but they can be used in trades or used to add more players..
They now have 20 million in cap space where they can possibly sign a PG that is 25 and proved he can do it in big spots..
Stop acting like the cupboard is dry and have nothing
The cupboard isn’t bare but neither is it a team built to go deep into the playoffs. It has no superstar player to lead them. They will be good enough not to be a high lottery team, but remain on a treadmill of mediocrity. It’s been 49 years since their last championship, soon to be a half of century 50 years.
But what move or pick did yiu want to make that would of gotten them that star last night?
The moves they made actually gets them closer to getting a star player or at least gives them the ammo
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In comment 15740367 ajr2456 said:
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The Thunder were quick first round exits. You’d be complaining if that was the Knicks every year and calling for heads.
All they’ve done is acquire picks and had some luck hitting on SGA and Dort. They haven’t achieved much, yet
Thats pretty dismissive of those moves to call them luck though. It still has to all work out but they look to be in excellent shape moving forward. Presti has made some really savvy picks.
Meanwhile Leon Rose burns a 1st round pick to dump a 9 million expiring salary. I love Brunson and hope he comes here but there is no way to categorize that as a good move.
In 2.5 years now, can anyone name one great/ savvy/ impressive trade/ signing/ pick by this front office?
Rose trade?
Getting quickley in his frist year moving around picks to get him..
Last year trading back acquiring another pick and still getting Grimes..
Trading their 2nd last year for 2 2nds and getting Mcbride and Rokas..
Drafting Sims with 58..
Is that really impressive in 2.5 years though? He had the most cap space in the league both offseasons along with high picks/ extra dallas pick.
If he comes out of this offseason with Brunson and uses those picks to land a star I will eat crow. But he has shown very little if anything that he is a good front office.
What is their path/ plan to become a good team?
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The Thunder were quick first round exits. You’d be complaining if that was the Knicks every year and calling for heads.
All they’ve done is acquire picks and had some luck hitting on SGA and Dort. They haven’t achieved much, yet
Thats pretty dismissive of those moves to call them luck though. It still has to all work out but they look to be in excellent shape moving forward. Presti has made some really savvy picks.
Meanwhile Leon Rose burns a 1st round pick to dump a 9 million expiring salary. I love Brunson and hope he comes here but there is no way to categorize that as a good move.
In 2.5 years now, can anyone name one great/ savvy/ impressive trade/ signing/ pick by this front office?
They were luck, SGA and Dort weren’t anywhere close to sure things. Like 60% of the first round are guys like SGA and Dort who teams take with their fingers crossed they pan out how they think they will.
They’re only looked at as savy picks because the luck bounced their way and they worked out.
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In comment 15740399 TyreeHelmet said:
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In comment 15740367 ajr2456 said:
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The Thunder were quick first round exits. You’d be complaining if that was the Knicks every year and calling for heads.
All they’ve done is acquire picks and had some luck hitting on SGA and Dort. They haven’t achieved much, yet
Thats pretty dismissive of those moves to call them luck though. It still has to all work out but they look to be in excellent shape moving forward. Presti has made some really savvy picks.
Meanwhile Leon Rose burns a 1st round pick to dump a 9 million expiring salary. I love Brunson and hope he comes here but there is no way to categorize that as a good move.
In 2.5 years now, can anyone name one great/ savvy/ impressive trade/ signing/ pick by this front office?
Rose trade?
Getting quickley in his frist year moving around picks to get him..
Last year trading back acquiring another pick and still getting Grimes..
Trading their 2nd last year for 2 2nds and getting Mcbride and Rokas..
Drafting Sims with 58..
Is that really impressive in 2.5 years though? He had the most cap space in the league both offseasons along with high picks/ extra dallas pick.
If he comes out of this offseason with Brunson and uses those picks to land a star I will eat crow. But he has shown very little if anything that he is a good front office.
What is their path/ plan to become a good team?
I am not arguing he has been way to conservative, i agree with you on that, but this is my point, everyone is complaining he has been way to conservative but then want Presti who forfeited 3 seasons..
Their path at least in my opinion is build with the 8 youth they have acquired and add to them either via free agency or through a trade..
They now have ammo and some cap space to do that..
Noe if they just add zbrunson and still have Randle, Burks, Noel, Fournier and Rose i am going to be fricken pissed
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In comment 15740353 nygiants16 said:
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The Knicks have 8 players under the age of 24 presuming they bring back Mitch..
Ita not like they are a team filled with 30 year olds..
Iq,Rj,Obi,Grimes,Sims,Mitch all showed they can be valued rotational players for the future. They all showed they can contribute on a good team and in some games carried the Knicks to wins..
They have 8 firsts in the next 4 years, where the fall we are not sure yet but they can be used in trades or used to add more players..
They now have 20 million in cap space where they can possibly sign a PG that is 25 and proved he can do it in big spots..
Stop acting like the cupboard is dry and have nothing
The cupboard isn’t bare but neither is it a team built to go deep into the playoffs. It has no superstar player to lead them. They will be good enough not to be a high lottery team, but remain on a treadmill of mediocrity. It’s been 49 years since their last championship, soon to be a half of century 50 years.
But what move or pick did yiu want to make that would of gotten them that star last night?
The moves they made actually gets them closer to getting a star player or at least gives them the ammo
Did they seriously try and trade up or was the plan to go after Brunson the whole time? Rose hasn’t spoken with the media in how many months now? Why signnKdmba only to attach and asset to trade him away?
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In comment 15740409 GFAN52 said:
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In comment 15740353 nygiants16 said:
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The Knicks have 8 players under the age of 24 presuming they bring back Mitch..
Ita not like they are a team filled with 30 year olds..
Iq,Rj,Obi,Grimes,Sims,Mitch all showed they can be valued rotational players for the future. They all showed they can contribute on a good team and in some games carried the Knicks to wins..
They have 8 firsts in the next 4 years, where the fall we are not sure yet but they can be used in trades or used to add more players..
They now have 20 million in cap space where they can possibly sign a PG that is 25 and proved he can do it in big spots..
Stop acting like the cupboard is dry and have nothing
The cupboard isn’t bare but neither is it a team built to go deep into the playoffs. It has no superstar player to lead them. They will be good enough not to be a high lottery team, but remain on a treadmill of mediocrity. It’s been 49 years since their last championship, soon to be a half of century 50 years.
But what move or pick did yiu want to make that would of gotten them that star last night?
The moves they made actually gets them closer to getting a star player or at least gives them the ammo
Did they seriously try and trade up or was the plan to go after Brunson the whole time? Rose hasn’t spoken with the media in how many months now? Why signnKdmba only to attach and asset to trade him away?
they seriously tried to trade up, this public knowledge
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In comment 15740367 ajr2456 said:
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The Thunder were quick first round exits. You’d be complaining if that was the Knicks every year and calling for heads.
All they’ve done is acquire picks and had some luck hitting on SGA and Dort. They haven’t achieved much, yet
Thats pretty dismissive of those moves to call them luck though. It still has to all work out but they look to be in excellent shape moving forward. Presti has made some really savvy picks.
Meanwhile Leon Rose burns a 1st round pick to dump a 9 million expiring salary. I love Brunson and hope he comes here but there is no way to categorize that as a good move.
In 2.5 years now, can anyone name one great/ savvy/ impressive trade/ signing/ pick by this front office?
They were luck, SGA and Dort weren’t anywhere close to sure things. Like 60% of the first round are guys like SGA and Dort who teams take with their fingers crossed they pan out how they think they will.
They’re only looked at as savy picks because the luck bounced their way and they worked out.
So he deserves no credit for insisting on SGA in the trade or signing Dort or drafting Giddey? Not to mention all the picks hes acquired and weaponized his cap space. That's all luck? Not a fair assessment.
Wheres that luck with the Leon Rose and the Knicks haha??
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In comment 15740421 nygiants16 said:
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In comment 15740409 GFAN52 said:
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In comment 15740353 nygiants16 said:
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The Knicks have 8 players under the age of 24 presuming they bring back Mitch..
Ita not like they are a team filled with 30 year olds..
Iq,Rj,Obi,Grimes,Sims,Mitch all showed they can be valued rotational players for the future. They all showed they can contribute on a good team and in some games carried the Knicks to wins..
They have 8 firsts in the next 4 years, where the fall we are not sure yet but they can be used in trades or used to add more players..
They now have 20 million in cap space where they can possibly sign a PG that is 25 and proved he can do it in big spots..
Stop acting like the cupboard is dry and have nothing
The cupboard isn’t bare but neither is it a team built to go deep into the playoffs. It has no superstar player to lead them. They will be good enough not to be a high lottery team, but remain on a treadmill of mediocrity. It’s been 49 years since their last championship, soon to be a half of century 50 years.
But what move or pick did yiu want to make that would of gotten them that star last night?
The moves they made actually gets them closer to getting a star player or at least gives them the ammo
Did they seriously try and trade up or was the plan to go after Brunson the whole time? Rose hasn’t spoken with the media in how many months now? Why signnKdmba only to attach and asset to trade him away?
they seriously tried to trade up, this public knowledge
Tweets from insiders are one thing ,I doubt they knew packages being offered and thus the true seriousness of the Knicks actual offer.
How should I know? The Knicks don't pay me to watch tape and evaluate players. That's the duty of the FO. It's their responsibility to find good players, even later in the draft. And #11 isn't that "late." Other teams do. Or are we saying that the FO can only be expected to draft a good player if they have a top five pick?
And what if they clear a lot of space but can't sign Brunson? Even if they do, they'll likely have to overpay.
This team and franchise have been completely moribund for decades. No more excuses.
real gm - ( New Window )
You would think they do, if that is indeed their plan as it appears to be.
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In comment 15740256 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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Can the Knicks ever get a generational player this century?
The lack of luck in the draft lottery is just astounding.. it's hard to comprehend.
To have NEVER moved up since the first overall lottery is just mind boggling.
The Warriors picked higher than we ever picked (Ewing aside) and they only sucked for two years. And they just won the championship...and the picks (Wiseman, Kuminga and Moody) didn't even contribute!
Meanwhile, the Knicks have shitty lottery luck and have been in a 20+ year rebuild and haven't sniffed the modicum of success the Warriors have.
Well the other way to "hit the jackpot" is to get an all time great with the 7th overall pick, and then 2 all-nba players at 11 and 35
Kind of seems like there's a big luck factor there as well, if you ask me...
Well the other way to "hit the jackpot" is to get an all time great with the 7th overall pick, and then 2 all-nba players at 11 and 35
Kind of seems like there's a big luck factor there as well, if you ask me...
Hey, the Knicks did LOVE Curry although in trying to trade up to secure him Waslh drew the line at including Wilson Chandler lol
I would say they have to do 3 things, Sign Brunson or a point we can be excited about, carve out 30 minutes for iq, carve out 30 minutes for Toppin
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In comment 15740310 moze1021 said:
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In comment 15740256 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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Can the Knicks ever get a generational player this century?
The lack of luck in the draft lottery is just astounding.. it's hard to comprehend.
To have NEVER moved up since the first overall lottery is just mind boggling.
The Warriors picked higher than we ever picked (Ewing aside) and they only sucked for two years. And they just won the championship...and the picks (Wiseman, Kuminga and Moody) didn't even contribute!
Meanwhile, the Knicks have shitty lottery luck and have been in a 20+ year rebuild and haven't sniffed the modicum of success the Warriors have.
Well the other way to "hit the jackpot" is to get an all time great with the 7th overall pick, and then 2 all-nba players at 11 and 35
Kind of seems like there's a big luck factor there as well, if you ask me...
Yep. Certainly helps change a franchise around when you can draft well.
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Well the other way to "hit the jackpot" is to get an all time great with the 7th overall pick, and then 2 all-nba players at 11 and 35
Kind of seems like there's a big luck factor there as well, if you ask me...
Hey, the Knicks did LOVE Curry although in trying to trade up to secure him Waslh drew the line at including Wilson Chandler lol
Funny my memory is that we were all about Rubio or Flynn... or maybe it was that we felt one of the 3 were guaranteed and then it was shocking when Wolves took 2 of the 3?
Funny my memory is that we were all about Rubio or Flynn... or maybe it was that we felt one of the 3 were guaranteed and then it was shocking when Wolves took 2 of the 3?
I think they liked Rubio a lot but knew he was never going to be there. Its since after the fact become well established that Curry was the apple of their eye
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In comment 15740330 Anakim said:
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In comment 15740310 moze1021 said:
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In comment 15740256 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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Can the Knicks ever get a generational player this century?
The lack of luck in the draft lottery is just astounding.. it's hard to comprehend.
To have NEVER moved up since the first overall lottery is just mind boggling.
The Warriors picked higher than we ever picked (Ewing aside) and they only sucked for two years. And they just won the championship...and the picks (Wiseman, Kuminga and Moody) didn't even contribute!
Meanwhile, the Knicks have shitty lottery luck and have been in a 20+ year rebuild and haven't sniffed the modicum of success the Warriors have.
Well the other way to "hit the jackpot" is to get an all time great with the 7th overall pick, and then 2 all-nba players at 11 and 35
Kind of seems like there's a big luck factor there as well, if you ask me...
Yep. Certainly helps change a franchise around when you can draft well.
Did they draft well or get lucky? To your own point, more recent picks of theirs have not panned out.
Did 14 teams really miss on Giannis or did Bucks just get lucky?
i mean, this is a done deal. Brunson's agent is Sam Rose. Sam's father is Leon Rose. Brunson's father is a Knicks coach. If the knicks cant get this done they should be contracted.
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In comment 15740464 moze1021 said:
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Well the other way to "hit the jackpot" is to get an all time great with the 7th overall pick, and then 2 all-nba players at 11 and 35
Kind of seems like there's a big luck factor there as well, if you ask me...
Hey, the Knicks did LOVE Curry although in trying to trade up to secure him Waslh drew the line at including Wilson Chandler lol
Funny my memory is that we were all about Rubio or Flynn... or maybe it was that we felt one of the 3 were guaranteed and then it was shocking when Wolves took 2 of the 3?
They tried to get Curry to leave Davidson a year early but didnt have a first to promise him only a 2nd
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Funny my memory is that we were all about Rubio or Flynn... or maybe it was that we felt one of the 3 were guaranteed and then it was shocking when Wolves took 2 of the 3?
I think they liked Rubio a lot but knew he was never going to be there. Its since after the fact become well established that Curry was the apple of their eye
D'Antoni was obsessed with Curry, that we know.
Come on look at presti track record he has drafted really well too bad it's in OKC where everyone leaves as soon as they can.
I would agrue the young players he has added over the last 2 years are going to be really good.
If he was in NY or LA and did what he has done over the last 16 years they would have won multiple championships .
Presti get picks and uses them to go after the draft talent he wants like he did last night for the kid from France.
He seemed to like the talent in this draft and made 3 picks in the top 12.
They are a FO that has nailed more 1st round picks in the last 16 years than anyone else.
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Deserves credit for getting those guys but he’s not some mastermind GM that people on here are claiming he is. He hasn’t proven he can win with these moves. Let’s see what happens
Come on look at presti track record he has drafted really well too bad it's in OKC where everyone leaves as soon as they can.
I would agrue the young players he has added over the last 2 years are going to be really good.
If he was in NY or LA and did what he has done over the last 16 years they would have won multiple championships .
Presti get picks and uses them to go after the draft talent he wants like he did last night for the kid from France.
He seemed to like the talent in this draft and made 3 picks in the top 12.
They are a FO that has nailed more 1st round picks in the last 16 years than anyone else.
We’ve seen Milwaukee and Toronto win championships recently. The big market stuff doesn’t track. Milwaukee was able to keep Giannis in town, is it that much better of a place to be than OKC?
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defender and has a well rounded offensive game. If we can't sign Brunson, I hope we stay away from Kyrie.
i mean, this is a done deal. Brunson's agent is Sam Rose. Sam's father is Leon Rose. Brunson's father is a Knicks coach. If the knicks cant get this done they should be contracted.
This is far from a done deal. Mark Cuban badly wants to keep Brunson. Dallas is much closer to winning that the Knicks are. Plus, they can pay him more than the Knicks can. I hope they pull it off bu this is far from a done deal
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In comment 15740346 Ira said:
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defender and has a well rounded offensive game. If we can't sign Brunson, I hope we stay away from Kyrie.
i mean, this is a done deal. Brunson's agent is Sam Rose. Sam's father is Leon Rose. Brunson's father is a Knicks coach. If the knicks cant get this done they should be contracted.
This is far from a done deal. Mark Cuban badly wants to keep Brunson. Dallas is much closer to winning that the Knicks are. Plus, they can pay him more than the Knicks can. I hope they pull it off bu this is far from a done deal
Dallas has bird rights and can offer 40 million more over 4 years.
If Brunson camp decides to go back to Dallas with the Knicks deal they can beat any offer.
I am in the camp that he is not worth a Max deal and it's a move out of desperation and Rose closeness to the family and player
I get the faith and optimism. I get duped into feeling it for the Giants every year. These teams deserve nothing but criticism until they start displaying actual results.
But he has proven he can win before. It's not like the guy doesn't have a track record. He's not perfect but he's done a really good job there with cheap owners and not a destination city.
Would you take him over Leon Rose?
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In comment 15740346 Ira said:
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defender and has a well rounded offensive game. If we can't sign Brunson, I hope we stay away from Kyrie.
i mean, this is a done deal. Brunson's agent is Sam Rose. Sam's father is Leon Rose. Brunson's father is a Knicks coach. If the knicks cant get this done they should be contracted.
This is far from a done deal. Mark Cuban badly wants to keep Brunson. Dallas is much closer to winning that the Knicks are. Plus, they can pay him more than the Knicks can. I hope they pull it off bu this is far from a done deal
I will bet you a dollar
He's not perfect, but he is the one who drafted/ acquired those guys...
Would you not take him over Leon Rose? Sounds like you don't view him as a good GM. Curious to hear why.
Dolan is a just a fool hiring a guy like this to run his team.Someone with questionable loyalty,among other things.
Dolan is a just a fool hiring a guy like this to run his team. Someone with questionable loyalty, among other things.
Amen.
This is exactly what Phil Jackson was talking about when he took over the Knicks. Agencies from teams aren't doing what's best for the team. He was referring to CAA. Dolan needs to clean house like he did last year with the Rangers' front office.
Dolan is a just a fool hiring a guy like this to run his team.Someone with questionable loyalty,among other things.
But it will all be worth it when he delivers Brunson for 4 years 120 million.
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Despite having KD, Westbrook, Harden, and Paul George they made 3 western conference and one finals. Is that winning? It’s not to me.
He's not perfect, but he is the one who drafted/ acquired those guys...
Would you not take him over Leon Rose? Sounds like you don't view him as a good GM. Curious to hear why.
Let’s give Rose the #2, 3 and 4 pick in consecutive years and I can have an opinion on that.
They both hit on some players, it's not luck.
Does Brunson make this team a contender? Is Randle gone? The only way this makes sense is if we clear enough cap to land a superstar.
They really effed themselves with these low to mid tier FAs. They need to pick a strategy and ride it. Fucking tank already. We would be so much further along at this point. Randle on this team does no one a service. Rose and the org need an identity, they currently don’t have a coherent strategy or an idea of whom they want to be.
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Probably the worst of the Knicks draft blunders,and we're talking about the likes of Frederic Weis and Michael Sweetney.
Dolan is a just a fool hiring a guy like this to run his team.Someone with questionable loyalty,among other things.
But it will all be worth it when he delivers Brunson for 4 years 120 million.
30 million a year for Brunson would be laughable
Then he will disappear around game 30 and people will go nuts again, lol.
Knicks' 2nd round pick - ( New Window )
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In comment 15740500 ghost718 said:
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Probably the worst of the Knicks draft blunders,and we're talking about the likes of Frederic Weis and Michael Sweetney.
Dolan is a just a fool hiring a guy like this to run his team.Someone with questionable loyalty,among other things.
But it will all be worth it when he delivers Brunson for 4 years 120 million.
30 million a year for Brunson would be laughable
I think it's insane but how high are the Knicks willing to go?
Max on brunson - ( New Window )
No need to guess which side they have the Knicks on.
Knicks are again draft night losers - ( New Window )
Brunson is a nice player who was drafted in the second round and has made himself into a decent NBA PG. On Dallas he is a slightly better than average player (17 PER), But that is playing alongside Doncic. On Knicks, he will probably have a PER in the 13-15 range.
So nothing against Brunson. He will be worth a few wins a year. But paying him 25 million per and once again putting the team over the salary cap for years to come is a completely idiotic move. Especially when you have to give away drafts picks to clear the even more idiotic signings you made just last season (Burks, Kemba etc )
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In comment 15740507 larryflower37 said:
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In comment 15740500 ghost718 said:
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Probably the worst of the Knicks draft blunders,and we're talking about the likes of Frederic Weis and Michael Sweetney.
Dolan is a just a fool hiring a guy like this to run his team.Someone with questionable loyalty,among other things.
But it will all be worth it when he delivers Brunson for 4 years 120 million.
30 million a year for Brunson would be laughable
I think it's insane but how high are the Knicks willing to go? Max on brunson - ( New Window )
If the Mavs want to sign him to the max, let them. That's completely insane
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In comment 15740511 TommyWiseau said:
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In comment 15740507 larryflower37 said:
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In comment 15740500 ghost718 said:
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Probably the worst of the Knicks draft blunders,and we're talking about the likes of Frederic Weis and Michael Sweetney.
Dolan is a just a fool hiring a guy like this to run his team.Someone with questionable loyalty,among other things.
But it will all be worth it when he delivers Brunson for 4 years 120 million.
30 million a year for Brunson would be laughable
I think it's insane but how high are the Knicks willing to go? Max on brunson - ( New Window )
If the Mavs want to sign him to the max, let them. That's completely insane
Might save us from ourselves.
I agree to a certain extent. But it's not all luck. It's talent evaluation and organizational structure.
Donnie Walsh knew Steph Curry was going to be a great player. But he did not have the draft capital to trade up and pick him. So instead, he had to hope Curry made it past Golden State, which he obviously did not.
There was a whole contingent of fans on BBI clamoring for the Knicks to draft Donovan Mitchell. So it was not just bad luck that they wound up with Knox. It was incompetence and poor judgment.
Then when they did get a guy who could play in Porzingas they completely screwed it up and wound up using him to trade away Hardaway's bad contract.
Now it looks like Rose is about to repeat these errors by signing a complementary player as if he were an emerging all-star.
2× King Mindaugas Cup winner (2020, 2021)
3× LKL champion (2019–2021)
EuroLeague Rising Star Award (2022)
LKL Best Young Player (2021)
NKL Best Young Player (2019)
Spanish League All-Young Players Team (2022)
Euroleague Next Generation Tournament All-Tournament Team (2018)
2x ELPA Best Young Player (2021, 2022)
2. the offensive inefficiency, sparked by Randle over-usage, is also greatly mitigated by Brunson
1 & 2 above provide a far better environment for RJB, IQ, Obi, Grimes, Reddish, Sims to thrive
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Enduring disaster season after disaster season and the only thing that gets us by is hope. Hope that we get lucky and get a good draft pick. Hope that we get lucky and draft a superstar. Hope that someone will want to play in NY and save us. Yet year after year, we don't win the lottery. Our draft picks never amount to much(outside this current group) and nobody ever wants to come here. It's really frustrating.
I agree to a certain extent. But it's not all luck. It's talent evaluation and organizational structure.
Donnie Walsh knew Steph Curry was going to be a great player. But he did not have the draft capital to trade up and pick him. So instead, he had to hope Curry made it past Golden State, which he obviously did not.
There was a whole contingent of fans on BBI clamoring for the Knicks to draft Donovan Mitchell. So it was not just bad luck that they wound up with Knox. It was incompetence and poor judgment.
Then when they did get a guy who could play in Porzingas they completely screwed it up and wound up using him to trade away Hardaway's bad contract.
Now it looks like Rose is about to repeat these errors by signing a complementary player as if he were an emerging all-star.
Yup. We’ve seen this show time and time again
I don't care if its an "overpay"- if they don't land Brunson that is just a flat out disaster of resources being used.
Rose needs to square away this roster. Are they going youth movement? If so where is Randle going? Alternatively- are they trying playing Rande and Obi together?
What is their path to contention? Because at this point they seem directionless except hoping a star asks to come to the Knicks.
Yes to this too
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send off a boatload of picks for Dejounte Murray then pay Brunson damn near 30 mil a year.
Yes to this too
If anyone reaaally valued 2nd half 1st round picks (which I equate to 4th round NFL draft picks), then maybe they could..
Who's to say Brunson can't follow a similar trajectory?
He has more value to the Knicks than he does to DAL too.
I would still love to hear this front office explain that Reddish trade at some point. Makes zero sense.
I am not disparaging him because his game isn’t exciting, but this reeks of BVW bringing Cano back to NY. I hope he takes Cuban’s money. WTH, we went from big game hunting for KD and Kyrie to Brunson?
People here were absolutely destroying Cashman for not getting one of the big name SS or a star SP or Olsen/Freeman, saying he had no clue how to build a team and was cheap. They also droned on endlessly about how this team was going to be at the bottom of the AL East…
Funny thing that…
Now, of course- the Knicks ARE a poorly run organization and very low on high end talent due to a number of draft day mistakes and bad luck. However, what I truly find amusing is how CERTAIN many posters are here that all the moves are about Brunson. Other than media members connecting the dots that the Knicks don’t have a real PG and that Brunson is a PG, what is the evidence for this?
If Rose doesn’t talk to the media, why are people so SURE reporter’s guesses are correct? After all, how much of the media’s wild speculation about the Knicks came true this week? How about none.
Time for more thinking and less mindless drivel being posted here.
Ive said it a few times, but before i completely destroy Rose (I didnt like last night so im not defending him) im going to wait to see what happens the next 2 weeks.
People here were absolutely destroying Cashman for not getting one of the big name SS or a star SP or Olsen/Freeman, saying he had no clue how to build a team and was cheap. They also droned on endlessly about how this team was going to be at the bottom of the AL East…
Funny thing that…
Now, of course- the Knicks ARE a poorly run organization and very low on high end talent due to a number of draft day mistakes and bad luck. However, what I truly find amusing is how CERTAIN many posters are here that all the moves are about Brunson. Other than media members connecting the dots that the Knicks don’t have a real PG and that Brunson is a PG, what is the evidence for this?
If Rose doesn’t talk to the media, why are people so SURE reporter’s guesses are correct? After all, how much of the media’s wild speculation about the Knicks came true this week? How about none.
Time for more thinking and less mindless drivel being posted here.
I mean, we're not talking rocket science.
They had scouts at his playoff game.
Rick Brunson was Leon Rose's first client.
Brunson is Rose's god son.
Brunson is a CAA client of Rose's son.
The Knicks hired Brunson's father as an assistant coach this offseason.
Is it possible that they're going after LaVine or something? Sure. But it doesn't take mental gymnastics to see that the Knicks are interested in Brunson.
I'm just really annoyed that we squandered our cap space 2 seasons ago giving raises to all the players on that playoff team and the messaging that whole offseason that it wasn't a big deal because these deals would be easy to move when they were expiring.
Kemba's deal took 4 2nd rounders and a swap of 1s to deal. That isn't easy. And that basically makes us committed to finding a home for Noel or Burks (or Rose I guess) in order to sign someone. NBA GMs will know that and use it to leverage more out of the Knicks.
"financial flexibility and draft capital" is the tag lines instead of "youth movement" and "young core" they were pushing a few year ago.
Its funny he didn't mention the financial flexibility and draft capital he has squandered the past year.
As a fan I hope I'm wrong but I'm pretty certain this guy has no idea what he's doing.
Its also completely bizarre he refuses to speak to the media ( and fans). What is he so worried about?
Could pave the way for Tim Hardaway's return!
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just issues a press release. Nothing of note.
"financial flexibility and draft capital" is the tag lines instead of "youth movement" and "young core" they were pushing a few year ago.
Its funny he didn't mention the financial flexibility and draft capital he has squandered the past year.
As a fan I hope I'm wrong but I'm pretty certain this guy has no idea what he's doing.
Its also completely bizarre he refuses to speak to the media ( and fans). What is he so worried about?
The Knicks need to finish worse than Washington and Detroit to help them get those picks. Watch, they will win the last three meaningless games of the season to edge out Washington or Detroit and push that pick to the next year.
Not a ton of teams with cap space to eat bad deals. Dallas has made it known they want to keep Brunson and are willing to pay him.
Going to be a interesting 6 days
Lowe and Marks talked about this on the podcast. It’s complicated but it’s unlikely they can make it work with the base year compensation stuff and the hard cap. Didn’t explain it well enough for me to explain but Marks said he might write something to explain it over the weekend
They can offer a 5th year which could add to the deal but not the per year money. Obviously based on the cap cleared Dallas knows exactly what the Knicks can offer if they are serious they can obviously beat any deal
Not a ton of teams with cap space to eat bad deals. Dallas has made it known they want to keep Brunson and are willing to pay him.
Going to be a interesting 6 days
I’m sure someone would take Reddish for a 2nd rounder. If you do that then you don’t need to send Noel or Burks just into cap space, you can take back salary but less of it and get to $30M. Could also just move Burks into a team’s trade exception which seems like it would be a no brainer for a contender but I’m sure the Knicks want something in return because he’s a useful player (when he’s not playing out of position)
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Listening to Zach Lowe’s podcast he just recorded and he said he thinks for Dallas to retain Brunson they’re gonna have to outbid the Knicks. Doesn’t think if both teams offer the same contract he’ll stay in Dallas because the relationship there over how Dallas handled extension talks isn’t great. Fwiw
They can offer a 5th year which could add to the deal but not the per year money. Obviously based on the cap cleared Dallas knows exactly what the Knicks can offer if they are serious they can obviously beat any deal
Yes that could qualify as outbidding the Knicks but the newsworthy part imo is that if the money is the same he’d leave
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Enduring disaster season after disaster season and the only thing that gets us by is hope. Hope that we get lucky and get a good draft pick. Hope that we get lucky and draft a superstar. Hope that someone will want to play in NY and save us. Yet year after year, we don't win the lottery. Our draft picks never amount to much(outside this current group) and nobody ever wants to come here. It's really frustrating.
I agree to a certain extent. But it's not all luck. It's talent evaluation and organizational structure.
Donnie Walsh knew Steph Curry was going to be a great player. But he did not have the draft capital to trade up and pick him. So instead, he had to hope Curry made it past Golden State, which he obviously did not.
There was a whole contingent of fans on BBI clamoring for the Knicks to draft Donovan Mitchell. So it was not just bad luck that they wound up with Knox. It was incompetence and poor judgment.
Then when they did get a guy who could play in Porzingas they completely screwed it up and wound up using him to trade away Hardaway's bad contract.
Now it looks like Rose is about to repeat these errors by signing a complementary player as if he were an emerging all-star.
All true
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In comment 15740597 DanMetroMan said:
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just issues a press release. Nothing of note.
"financial flexibility and draft capital" is the tag lines instead of "youth movement" and "young core" they were pushing a few year ago.
Its funny he didn't mention the financial flexibility and draft capital he has squandered the past year.
As a fan I hope I'm wrong but I'm pretty certain this guy has no idea what he's doing.
Its also completely bizarre he refuses to speak to the media ( and fans). What is he so worried about?
The Knicks need to finish worse than Washington and Detroit to help them get those picks. Watch, they will win the last three meaningless games of the season to edge out Washington or Detroit and push that pick to the next year.
This is what I meant above when discussing emotional posts rather than thinking posts.
Detroit just added two very good young players and will add a high end FA in the hear future with their cap space.
Washington will have a healthy Beal and drafted a nice complementary scoring G.
The Knicks added, well, nothing.
Granted, we have an entire off-season to go and the draft is not determinative. However, posting emotional thoughts rather than thinking through the actual facts and outcomes just wastes everyone else’s time and energy.
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In 6 days is going to be rough without adding young players or picks.
Not a ton of teams with cap space to eat bad deals. Dallas has made it known they want to keep Brunson and are willing to pay him.
Going to be a interesting 6 days
I’m sure someone would take Reddish for a 2nd rounder. If you do that then you don’t need to send Noel or Burks just into cap space, you can take back salary but less of it and get to $30M. Could also just move Burks into a team’s trade exception which seems like it would be a no brainer for a contender but I’m sure the Knicks want something in return because he’s a useful player (when he’s not playing out of position)
All true but moving Cam for a 2nd less than 6 months after trading him for a 1st is painful.
The other pieces will take work to get done knowing the Knicks are up against it. Only the Knicks have the sense of urgency to get these deals done now.
Talk to me after FA. If the Knicks somehow get a good lead guard and improve the team no one will give a fuck that they gained and moved a bunch of stupid 2nd rounders.
A lot hinges on this summer.
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Listening to Zach Lowe’s podcast he just recorded and he said he thinks for Dallas to retain Brunson they’re gonna have to outbid the Knicks. Doesn’t think if both teams offer the same contract he’ll stay in Dallas because the relationship there over how Dallas handled extension talks isn’t great. Fwiw
They can offer a 5th year which could add to the deal but not the per year money. Obviously based on the cap cleared Dallas knows exactly what the Knicks can offer if they are serious they can obviously beat any deal
Something not being taken into account by many here in just assuming Dallas can offer more money than the Knicks is that with the Christian Wood trade now being finalized, Dallas is already over the tax line- and still have to sign draft picks and fill empty roster spots.
Thus, re-signing Brunson isn’t as simple as offering more than the Knicks, because the cost is not just based on dollars, but also on how much extra in tax they would pay. There is a real difference in tax between $20M and $30M for a team.
Dallas is competitive in the West, but they are still not a clear championship contender. They might prefer to tweak the roster elsewhere instead of adding more tax dollars to keep what they already had.
I think so too. He’s a useful player essentially on a one year deal. They might prefer though to do a sign and trade and give up like a 2nd round pick to create a trade exception
2. the offensive inefficiency, sparked by Randle over-usage, is also greatly mitigated by Brunson
I like Brunson, but it is fair to question how efficient he will be when his usage rate goes up, and he's no longer playing P&R with Luka. I think he's worth the gamble, but I wouldn't go any higher than $25M.
You wanna suck forever? Keep operating with this fear of the big contract and I promise you we will suck forever.
Brunson is an ascending talent. He's already a good PG that can shoot from 3pt land. He's played well in the postseason. He's young.
And we don't want him because he will cost a lot of money.
Good luck with that mindset.
Montero has it all for a PG, size, athleticism, vision and ball handling. He’s a one man press break and is nearly impossible to contain one on one. He has good court awareness and does a good job of anticipating the movement of the defense, passing out of double teams and swinging the ball away from pressure. Montero can run the pick and roll and has great touch on his passes.
At 6-3 he’s got prototypical point guard size and has all the quickness, agility and leaping ability you could want. He’s got a lethal combination of a quick first step and outside shooting ability, which keeps the defense off balance and makes Montero a nightmare to try to defend.
So why wasn't he drafted?
Can we make a move that helps us win 45 games first? The Knicks would still have a ton of flexibility if they landed Brunson or even Kyrie.
Every situation is different and this is in no way the Melo deal or the Stat deal.
Over pay for a fucking PG for fucks sake. Just get one.
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Jean Montero is a really intriguing point guard prospect with a nice frame, great change of speed and slick ball handling skills. He projects as one of the top international players in the 2022 NBA draft. He’ll be playing in the new Overtime Elite pro league this year.
Montero has it all for a PG, size, athleticism, vision and ball handling. He’s a one man press break and is nearly impossible to contain one on one. He has good court awareness and does a good job of anticipating the movement of the defense, passing out of double teams and swinging the ball away from pressure. Montero can run the pick and roll and has great touch on his passes.
At 6-3 he’s got prototypical point guard size and has all the quickness, agility and leaping ability you could want. He’s got a lethal combination of a quick first step and outside shooting ability, which keeps the defense off balance and makes Montero a nightmare to try to defend.
So why wasn't he drafted?
It's a good question. I'm also wondering if Rokas is ready to come to the NBA.
✔
@JordanRaanan
Been saying this for years. Still holds true. Until the Knicks get a bonafide star, a top 10 player, this is all BS. Just noise. For nothing. Jalen Brunson a nice player, but still … they’re nowhere near being a serious contender even if they sign him.
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In comment 15740606 TyreeHelmet said:
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In comment 15740597 DanMetroMan said:
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just issues a press release. Nothing of note.
"financial flexibility and draft capital" is the tag lines instead of "youth movement" and "young core" they were pushing a few year ago.
Its funny he didn't mention the financial flexibility and draft capital he has squandered the past year.
As a fan I hope I'm wrong but I'm pretty certain this guy has no idea what he's doing.
Its also completely bizarre he refuses to speak to the media ( and fans). What is he so worried about?
The Knicks need to finish worse than Washington and Detroit to help them get those picks. Watch, they will win the last three meaningless games of the season to edge out Washington or Detroit and push that pick to the next year.
This is what I meant above when discussing emotional posts rather than thinking posts.
Detroit just added two very good young players and will add a high end FA in the hear future with their cap space.
Washington will have a healthy Beal and drafted a nice complementary scoring G.
The Knicks added, well, nothing.
Granted, we have an entire off-season to go and the draft is not determinative. However, posting emotional thoughts rather than thinking through the actual facts and outcomes just wastes everyone else’s time and energy.
Washington was 18-22 with Beal and 17-25 without him. So about 2 games worse in half a year. They would have needed 9 more wins to have their pick be 15 this year.
Can we make a move that helps us win 45 games first? The Knicks would still have a ton of flexibility if they landed Brunson or even Kyrie.
Every situation is different and this is in no way the Melo deal or the Stat deal.
Over pay for a fucking PG for fucks sake. Just get one.
It will be interesting to see what the roster looks like at the beginning of next season. I can't imagine anyone wanting Randle, so I think he'll be here.
If the only move is dropping Noel/Walker/Burks and picking up Brunson, how many wins does that take us to?
I'd say we'd be about a .500 team. I think some of that depends on the continued development of RJ and Toppin and some rotational changes by our coaching staff.
So i guess the Knicks should only sign ready made mega stars--forget the ascending player--go big or go home? And when that mega star never avails himself what will people say then? Blame the Knicks without little to no context or course, as long as it generates clicks and likes.
Ranaan is worthless.
Knicks are no exactly bad at identifying young talent. Maybe they truly think a guy like Brunson is an all star in the making? I know many here insist he isn't, but what if the Knicks think otherwise?
Talk to me after FA. I'll roast Rose if they do nothing, but I have to believe they have something cooking here.
So why wasn't he drafted?
It's a good question.
His stats from last season in the Overtime league (24 games) are linked.
Shot 27.5% from three taking about 6.5 of them per game. But 78% FT suggests he might be a good enough fundamental shooter to improve on that.
He's skinny: 172 pounds at the combine; 6'2 1/2 in shoes.
link - ( New Window )
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not ever move HAS to move the needle enough to win 60 games and lock in the semi finals appearance every year. Some moves get you close. Then the next move gets you even closer.
Can we make a move that helps us win 45 games first? The Knicks would still have a ton of flexibility if they landed Brunson or even Kyrie.
Every situation is different and this is in no way the Melo deal or the Stat deal.
Over pay for a fucking PG for fucks sake. Just get one.
It will be interesting to see what the roster looks like at the beginning of next season. I can't imagine anyone wanting Randle, so I think he'll be here.
If the only move is dropping Noel/Walker/Burks and picking up Brunson, how many wins does that take us to?
I'd say we'd be about a .500 team. I think some of that depends on the continued development of RJ and Toppin and some rotational changes by our coaching staff.
A .500 team that makes an early exit from the playoffs and stuck in mediocrity when it comes to the draft.
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just issues a press release. Nothing of note.
"financial flexibility and draft capital" is the tag lines instead of "youth movement" and "young core" they were pushing a few year ago.
Its funny he didn't mention the financial flexibility and draft capital he has squandered the past year.
As a fan I hope I'm wrong but I'm pretty certain this guy has no idea what he's doing.
Its also completely bizarre he refuses to speak to the media ( and fans). What is he so worried about?
This is what he's afraid of:
They had scouts at his playoff game.
Rick Brunson was Leon Rose's first client.
Brunson is Rose's god son.
Brunson is a CAA client of Rose's son.
The Knicks hired Brunson's father as an assistant coach this offseason.
Is it possible that they're going after LaVine or something? Sure. But it doesn't take mental gymnastics to see that the Knicks are interested in Brunson.
And when Brunson signs with Dallas it will be laughter followed by tears.
You wanna suck forever? Keep operating with this fear of the big contract and I promise you we will suck forever.
Brunson is an ascending talent. He's already a good PG that can shoot from 3pt land. He's played well in the postseason. He's young.
And we don't want him because he will cost a lot of money.
Good luck with that mindset.
Spot on.
Also, people need to realize that you can rarely go 0 to 60. We can't think we can go from outhouse to penthouse by attracting some star. First of all stars rarely hit FA. You have to trade for them. To trade for them, you need useful pieces (like Ball, Ingram, Hart + picks). Its hard to have useful pieces if our kids (Obi, RJB, IQ, Grimes etc) are not reaching their potential because the team is being hijacked by the King of Inefficiency, Julius Randle. Jalen Brunson changes that dynamic and becomes an actual/functional lead ball handler.
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I mean, we're not talking rocket science.
They had scouts at his playoff game.
Rick Brunson was Leon Rose's first client.
Brunson is Rose's god son.
Brunson is a CAA client of Rose's son.
The Knicks hired Brunson's father as an assistant coach this offseason.
Is it possible that they're going after LaVine or something? Sure. But it doesn't take mental gymnastics to see that the Knicks are interested in Brunson.
And when Brunson signs with Dallas it will be laughter followed by tears.
And hopefully Rose and Scott Perry get booted out the door.
I also want a GM that knows how to properly use his resources/ assets and not burn 1st round picks on cam reddish and shedding a 1 year 9 million contract.
But if Rose can't land Brunson with all his connections to him and after what he did last night- he needs to go.
How long are we going to wait for this front office to actually do something impactful to build this team. Just look around the league and see how different teams have improved the last 2.5 years...
After some thoughts and considerations this is what I think will be happening
1. Randle will be traded
2. Mitch will sign
3. Noel. Burkes involved in trades
4. Brunson will be signed
All that draft capital acquired. 11 picks in first round and 11 in second over the next 7 years will be used in upcoming moves and acquisitions
I think Randle is good player but I also think he's going to b harder to trade than people think. Its not a bad contract but its a long contract.
I would do a straight swap of him for Brogdon even with the injury concerns.
Would Dallas want him in a sign trade for Brunson?
I just don't see too many options out there. Especially now that portland is not an option. My bet hes a knick next year.
A 'contender' to win it all? He isn't wrong.
They tried to move up. Who the hell are they getting at 11 that makes them better now or even in the future? Another big? Another wing that might be pretty good one day?
They didn't do nothing. Once they couldn't move up they traded an ok 11th pick for future picks and took a chance that clearing cap space for some 2nd rounders would bear fruit over the summer.
I don't know...I guess I am just nuts but I have come on here and blasted this franchise as much as any have over the last few seasons, and I have killed Rose, but to me last night was harmless at the very worst and maybe beneficial if things work out in our favor this Summer.
I guess it's the fans overrating draft picks.."we traded a lott pick OMG"---yeah except that lott pick wasn't a lotto pick at all. It was the 11th pick in a 5-6-7 player draft. More like a pick 6 lotto ticket which means...loser.
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tweet from Ranaan... NOBODY think Jalen Brunson makes the Knicks a "contender", even Brunson himself likely knows that's not true.
A 'contender' to win it all? He isn't wrong.
This >> Also, people need to realize that you can rarely go 0 to 60. We can't think we can go from outhouse to penthouse by attracting some star. First of all stars rarely hit FA. You have to trade for them. To trade for them, you need useful pieces (like Ball, Ingram, Hart + picks). Its hard to have useful pieces if our kids (Obi, RJB, IQ, Grimes etc) are not reaching their potential because the team is being hijacked by the King of Inefficiency, Julius Randle. Jalen Brunson changes that dynamic and becomes an actual/functional lead ball handler.
We can't make any moves unless they lead to a title? Ok then...see you in 1000 years.
That is not true.
Can we let the offseason play out first too? There is so much time to improve the team, this was only the first stage of the offseason. Holy shit.
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They traded a late 1st for a future late 1st and a bunch of 2nds(that you can buy). Lets not exaggerate to fit a narrative.
That is not true.
Care to clarify?
I thought they traded Denvers 2023 and 4 2nds with Kemba
for
Milwaukees 2025 1st.
No?
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tweet from Ranaan... NOBODY think Jalen Brunson makes the Knicks a "contender", even Brunson himself likely knows that's not true.
A 'contender' to win it all? He isn't wrong.
NOBODY believes Jalen Brunson is a #1 piece or even a #2 piece on a title contender. Nobody is even arguing he is.... nobody. The Knicks add him today and they are in the mix for a top 5 seed. Who is saying Brunson is turning them into a title contender? He just played with a top 3-4 player in the NBA and they "surprised" by going as far as they did. I'm hyper-critical of the Knicks but Brunson is a solid "piece", he's not (and nobody is saying he is) a franchise changing supersrar.
But who disagrees with this? Nobody thinks he's a 1-2 star on a title contender. Nobody.
And the Knicks are signing Mitch
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In comment 15740683 Kmed6000 said:
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They traded a late 1st for a future late 1st and a bunch of 2nds(that you can buy). Lets not exaggerate to fit a narrative.
That is not true.
Care to clarify?
I thought they traded Denvers 2023 and 4 2nds with Kemba
for
Milwaukees 2025 1st.
No?
Technically they traded the 13th overall pick with Kemba to the Pistons for the 2025 MIL pick.
However you slice it they should not be using draft assets to dump a contract like that. Thats poor use of resources for a team that needs every opportunity possible to improve talent.
Also- why couldn't they just include Kemba directly to OKC? Sure would be nice to hear Leon explain this...
The discussion and contributions of certain posters is awesome. Then on the other hand you have people who a week ago said “if the Knicks give up the farm for Ivey, I am done!”, then 3 days ago those people were saying “if the Knicks stay at 11 and draft AJ Griffin, I am done!” Now today, after the Knicks didn’t bend over and give it all away to trade up for Ivey, and traded out rather than settling for Griffin, are saying “this front office is incompetent, if they did all of this just to get Jalen Brunson, I am done!”
Gets old seeing some bitch no matter what the team does.
Nothing surpasses the thread from the day/night of “The Decision”. That was my favorite BBI thread ever.
Narrative? I want the Knicks to be good and I want their GM to make smart moves to acquire good players.
You think that is a smart move for this team in their current situation? If so we have to agree to disagree on that.
And who is saying he is? That's my point. It's a straw man argument. He'd be a clear upgrade at PG and a talent upgrade. Nobody (including, I'd hope Leon himself) thinks the Knicks contend with "only" Brunson added. The Knicks moves yesterday were arguable but they didn't make them thinking Brunson puts them in position to contend for a title in 2023.
@esidery
·
1m
The situation between the Nets and Kyrie Irving is getting acrimonious, per
@wojespn
on NBA Today.
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Jordan is saying that Brunson DOES NOT make the knicks a contender
And who is saying he is? That's my point. It's a straw man argument. He'd be a clear upgrade at PG and a talent upgrade. Nobody (including, I'd hope Leon himself) thinks the Knicks contend with "only" Brunson added. The Knicks moves yesterday were arguable but they didn't make them thinking Brunson puts them in position to contend for a title in 2023.
Absolutely but does a near max deal for Brunson hurt you long term is the question?
We won't know that yet especially because we have to wait to see how they clear the remaining cap.
I know everyone is speculating that's it's going to take 25 million per it could be more or less.
If they march out Randle, RJ, Fournier, Brunson, and Mitch for 35 minutes a game is not what I want to see.
What does that get you 35 to 40 wins?
Back on the backside of the lottery with a bunch of late round first round picks.
Instead, they have a bunch of young guys who don't get minutes and aren't anywhere close to competing.
They need to get lucky and hit a home run in a draft, but they keep trying to hit singles with guys who can come in and play and help them compete, even though they won't be competitive without another star (or Randle playing at an All Star level).
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Jordan is saying that Brunson DOES NOT make the knicks a contender
And who is saying he is? That's my point. It's a straw man argument. He'd be a clear upgrade at PG and a talent upgrade. Nobody (including, I'd hope Leon himself) thinks the Knicks contend with "only" Brunson added. The Knicks moves yesterday were arguable but they didn't make them thinking Brunson puts them in position to contend for a title in 2023.
My bad, I should have quoted SanFran who seems to be missing the point here. We all agree that Brunson doesn't make us contenders or even that close.
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#13 and Kemba for a future 1st. So they didn't just throw away a first to get rid of Kemba. Any way you slice it, you are playing word games to fit your narrative.
Narrative? I want the Knicks to be good and I want their GM to make smart moves to acquire good players.
You think that is a smart move for this team in their current situation? If so we have to agree to disagree on that.
#1 Lets see what their plan is. How are we supposed to say if its good or bad without knowing what they are doing with that space.
#2 What is the issue. They traded a 23 1st for a 25 1st probably of equal value if not better(less protection) to get rid of Kemba. Why is this so bad?
Getting the vibe from people there that Randle will either be traded with the picks for a star or without them to a team that missed in FA and is looking to still improve
Seeing Stein say it is a good sign. He's very plugged in with the Mavs, more so than any other team and often breaks Mavs-related news.
This is where I'm at too. Let's see what the next moves are.
Burks would be a nice get for them vs losing Brunson and getting nothing in return. Noel would be a useful player for them too (if healthy) without much risk.
They didn’t want Luka Doncic either.
Haha, I heard that too. And while it’s likely true that we Knicks fans overrate the young talent on this team, I’m not sure anyone should get heartburn over what the Kings think of players. They’re as lost as the Knicks are
I thought you couldn't do that with guys on BYC. Or maybe it's just really hard to make the dollars work? I've heard it explained on KFS a couple of times, but my eyes always glaze over with Cap speak.
If they can pull that off, it'd be great. Send a couple of 2s the Mavs way for their troubles. Burks is nice, but if they have Brunson, Quickley and Rose he's just not needed here.
Getting the vibe from people there that Randle will either be traded with the picks for a star or without them to a team that missed in FA and is looking to still improve
I really pray you are right about .
This is more important then anything the knicks do this offseason or what happened last night on draft night
From rit holtzman
Other guys making between $27 and $30M next season:
Bam, Mitchell, Fox, Ingram, Murray, Hayward, CP3.
He’d have the 39th highest salary in the NBA next year (pending extensions)
Getting the vibe from people there that Randle will either be traded with the picks for a star or without them to a team that missed in FA and is looking to still improve
What star could we realistically get for Randle + picks?
Dejounte Murray could be. The thing about the modern NBA though is that sometimes you have no idea someone was available until the deal happens
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i mean the Wiz are pretty dumb, maybe we can send him and picks in a S&T for Beal. Randle and KP together at last.
Dejounte Murray could be. The thing about the modern NBA though is that sometimes you have no idea someone was available until the deal happens
I don’t think Murray is even available. Does not make sense for them to trade him
Brunson is not a scrub, he is a good PG. He is not 27.5 million dollar good either. Vanvleet also came at a price of 21 mil a year, decent amount less then the rumored 27.5 mil per for Brunson.
Brunson, RJ, Randle and Mitch get us to what? At best the 7 seed?
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Brunson has better efficiency than VanVleet too. We'll see how usage and playing outside of Luka affects that. But people are acting like he's a scrub.
Brunson is not a scrub, he is a good PG. He is not 27.5 million dollar good either. Vanvleet also came at a price of 21 mil a year, decent amount less then the rumored 27.5 mil per for Brunson.
Brunson, RJ, Randle and Mitch get us to what? At best the 7 seed?
I dont think Randle is part of the equation, he may be for now, but not longterm..
That's what I keep coming back to as a Knicks fan: Brunson would be a fine addition. We need a PG in the worst way. But we are still miles behind the powers in the Eastern Conference. What this team desperately needs is a no doubt about it superstar. And yes, I know guys like that don't grow on trees, but man...we are due for one.
Contracts in the NBA are drunk. Haha.
Contracts in the NBA are drunk. Haha.
That’s a wild one for sure and to think they chose him over Jimmy Butler no less.
They’re talking about a possible $175M salary cap in 2025. This year will be around $122M so that’s a huge jump.
Brunson was 16 and 5 last year playing alongside a high usage player in Doncic..he coudl easily be 20 and 8
Brunson was 16 and 5 last year playing alongside a high usage player in Doncic..he coudl easily be 20 and 8
Plus a lot fewer TOs than Randle at point!
Same.
If we acquire one of them, it'll be LaVine or Beal, RJ, & hopefully Brunson as our Big Three...that roster isn't beating a team with Giannis, Tatum, or Buckets.
If we acquire one of them, it'll be LaVine or Beal, RJ, & hopefully Brunson as our Big Three...that roster isn't beating a team with Giannis, Tatum, or Buckets.
We'd have a ton of assets to continue star shopping though. And still have tons of quality young depth.
Good luck finding a taker for both.
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.
Good luck finding a taker for both.
Fournier and Randle are negative assets. You would have to pay someone to take them.
This is ridiculous. So the Knicks shouldn’t continue to try to make the team better until they land a “supreme superstar”? Wtf? Who is that going to be exactly? And why would this supreme superstar willingly go to the Knicks if there are no other pieces around them? The Knicks need to add pieces to make this an attractive destination for “supreme superstars”.
It’s absolutely amazing how many years of your lives you’re willing to just throw down the toilet while we wait for supreme superstars to come here. Just be patient. By the time we are all 95 years old, maybe that player will have arrived. But I doubt it
The big thing this summer is you have to clear out the vets as much as you can, Adding Brunson Fournier can not be the 2, you want a guy like Grimes at the 2 so you have a good 3 and d wing next to Brunson..
The bench is way to crowded..
The big thing this summer is you have to clear out the vets as much as you can, Adding Brunson Fournier can not be the 2, you want a guy like Grimes at the 2 so you have a good 3 and d wing next to Brunson..
The bench is way to crowded..
Great point. This has always been the issue with the Knicks - can’t go from zero to ten. Need to build a roster that can win in the mid 40’s and then add from there. That is what will entice a star.
My issue though is Rose. Why does he get credit for clearing Kemba when he brought him in just a year ago? Don’t have much faith in Rose to execute, but need to start somewhere.
This makes zero sense. Bringing in a player who immediately becomes the best player on the Knicks is a waste of capital?
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and the Knicks win 45 games and him, Rj, Iq, Obi have good years, someone is going to want tk join them next summer..
The big thing this summer is you have to clear out the vets as much as you can, Adding Brunson Fournier can not be the 2, you want a guy like Grimes at the 2 so you have a good 3 and d wing next to Brunson..
The bench is way to crowded..
Great point. This has always been the issue with the Knicks - can’t go from zero to ten. Need to build a roster that can win in the mid 40’s and then add from there. That is what will entice a star.
My issue though is Rose. Why does he get credit for clearing Kemba when he brought him in just a year ago? Don’t have much faith in Rose to execute, but need to start somewhere.
This is not something new, you look around the league it happens every year, when a guy is signed the first thing people say is welp this giy will be traded in 2 weeks...
I would rsther a GM who recognizes mistakes and gets rid of them rather than double down, of course i wish the gm didnt make mistakes but that never happens
Thibs better adapt or he is going to be fired, he doesnt have a choice
I guess we'll see soon enough.
Does Brunson alone make them a title contender? No, but does he make them better? Absolutely. Think back to the impact Derrick Rose had on this team two years ago, that’s what they will be getting in Brunson. He’s a guy that can play downhill, get to the rim, score efficiently inside the arc, and create pressure on the defense that creates opportunities for the other guys on the court. Another huge plus with Brunson is that he is used to playing with Luka, so while the ball will be in his hands a lot of the time, he also will be comfortable letting RJ/Randle (though hopefully he won’t be around) do their thing for stretches.
To ny16s point, adding Brunson brings this team into the 45 win conversation, and a young team focused around him, RJ, Toppin, and Quickley is going to be appealing to a star looking for a new home.
I guess we'll see soon enough.
According to stein, Being the main PG and madison square garden the big stage is appealing to hin
Yeah Stein's mailbag is pretty good, good info and he doesnt BS
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But if I'm him, do I leave Dallas? The Mavs can offer him more coin & he has a better chance of winning there than he does here, at least in the current moment. I get the familial connection & perhaps he wants to be 'The Man', which he'll never be in Dallas as long as Luka is there.
I guess we'll see soon enough.
According to stein, Being the main PG and madison square garden the big stage is appealing to hin
There has also been reports over the past couple of seasons that players get very frustrated playing with Luka. He’s fantastic, no doubt. But if you’re a player like Brunson that considers himself a PG I can see why Lukas extreme ball dominance would be a turnoff
The Trade Deadline
@_TradeDeadline
"Despite moving their first-round pick in the Christian Wood deal, the Mavs are believed to want back into the late first round or early second round, from what I’m told, if it can land them Trevor Keels out of Duke." (via
@talkhoops
)
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We will know soon enough.
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Does Brunson alone make them a title contender? No, but does he make them better? Absolutely. Think back to the impact Derrick Rose had on this team two years ago, that’s what they will be getting in Brunson.
Basically my take.
They need an available PG who can emulate Rose's 2020 season. If it's Brunson, he's that guy right now, and he has pretty significant upside being young.
If you're going pay a free agent, pay a guy with room to grow, don't pay a guy for past all star games.
If Randle continues to be a high usage low efficiency player that Thibs leans on to run ISOs constantly, we're going to have a lot of the same complaints. He needs to be more creative and dynamic with the offensive playcalling and substitution pattern.
I like Thibs, he's a good coach but he's weirdly stubborn about certain things. His rotations are pretty robotic, which is why I was almost hoping that the roster did have some turnover.
In doing so, it seemed like they did pretty good, getting three ones in return, instead of forcing a pick in a draft they clearly didn’t like.
Teams biggest hole is clearly a PG, but draft is over. So why not try to clear some dead weight for cap room, to keep the hope alive of getting a good guard in Brunson? He’s young, his numbers from last year would make him one of their best OGs of the last 30 years lol. He’s got more upside than downside, since he never was the lead guard for a full season.
More importantly, it takes Randle out of being the primary ball handler. Remember, Randle was by far his best with Rose than without him. Maybe they can salvage him. Plus Barret still rising. Then the young kids from last years draft plus IQ and Obi.
Call me crazy, but I’m OK with this. Lots of picks for trades or inexpensive bench pieces the next few years. A coup,e of decent sized contracts expiring they can fill in for trades. A bunch of young pieces they can use to trade for a very good player or disgruntled star player.
I don’t hate this at all. I actually like it. They did they hard thing, and pissed off fans that wanted something immediate. Everyone got their hopes up for Ivey, and anything less would disappoint. Not only did they swing and miss, they punted. But IMO, they punted and got the ball back in better field position fingers crossed
I still think the Knicks should have moved on from his this spring, but that ain't happening so it is what it is.
In doing so, it seemed like they did pretty good, getting three ones in return, instead of forcing a pick in a draft they clearly didn’t like.
Teams biggest hole is clearly a PG, but draft is over. So why not try to clear some dead weight for cap room, to keep the hope alive of getting a good guard in Brunson? He’s young, his numbers from last year would make him one of their best OGs of the last 30 years lol. He’s got more upside than downside, since he never was the lead guard for a full season.
More importantly, it takes Randle out of being the primary ball handler. Remember, Randle was by far his best with Rose than without him. Maybe they can salvage him. Plus Barret still rising. Then the young kids from last years draft plus IQ and Obi.
Call me crazy, but I’m OK with this. Lots of picks for trades or inexpensive bench pieces the next few years. A coup,e of decent sized contracts expiring they can fill in for trades. A bunch of young pieces they can use to trade for a very good player or disgruntled star player.
I don’t hate this at all. I actually like it. They did they hard thing, and pissed off fans that wanted something immediate. Everyone got their hopes up for Ivey, and anything less would disappoint. Not only did they swing and miss, they punted. But IMO, they punted and got the ball back in better field position fingers crossed
+1
For over 20 years this team has operated under the “Do Something!” philosophy. Just do something, ANYTHING to make the team better. And look what’s it gotten us.
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Forget about quick fix with high priced FA's. There is no one that can turn team around and the secondary good FA's like Irving or Brunson are just a waste of capital until Knicks can get a supreme superstar.
This is ridiculous. So the Knicks shouldn’t continue to try to make the team better until they land a “supreme superstar”? Wtf? Who is that going to be exactly? And why would this supreme superstar willingly go to the Knicks if there are no other pieces around them? The Knicks need to add pieces to make this an attractive destination for “supreme superstars”.
It’s absolutely amazing how many years of your lives you’re willing to just throw down the toilet while we wait for supreme superstars to come here. Just be patient. By the time we are all 95 years old, maybe that player will have arrived. But I doubt it
1--- What is your definition of "Making the team better?"
2--- When you say "no other players around them"- With the draft picks they have and the youth they have - you mean no one will get better? Not one or only two current players on the roster will get better than last year?
3--- And to further that, so when the Knicks get those draft picks, when you say "no other players around them," then you're suggesting not even the draft picks will be any good?
2-3-- In regards to 2 and 3 above can' we say that your comment that "no other players around them" is an extreme exaggeration?
4a-- It's absolutely amazing how many years you've seen Dolan get that 2nd tier superstar only to watch the team tread in mediocrity or worse, and yet you learn nothing from it. Your method probably ensures another 95 years of what we have had to deal with. Will you ever learn? I doubt it.
4b-- When you speak of ridiculous. Doing the exact same thing Dolan has done for years not getting the elite superstar player and trading draft picks while we watch the team do shit for so many years, - to do the same thing over and over is the definition of ridiculous.
5--- And when you make the comment about the superstar, inferring if he'll want to come or not because of the current talent, you think he would be too stupid to figure out that the knicks are going to have a ton of cap space in the near future in which he could also coax a player he actually wants to play with to come to New York?
6---- When you speak of being "95 years old" a reference that we as Knicks fans will have to wait forever, it's your philosophy (the Dolan one) that has been holding this team back as long as the days of Alcindor/Jabbar in which the Knicks chose to pass on him for Bob McAdoo and we also teamed him up with Spencer Haywood (note the similarity of Melo/Amare).
7--- When are you going to learn and also when are you going to stop the extreme exaggerations in which this philosophy has plagued our Knicks for many years?
He's wrong about Brunson. Here's why--
Brunson isn't going to turn you into a title contender at any point until you get a true superstar. If you get him, all you are doing is throwing more money at mediocrity without a plan to be a contender. He is telling you that Brunson is not an all-star yet what logic is there then to pay him an enormous contract?
Apparently he is okay with no real plan to get out of not being contender, but instead just being better. Hasn't that been the same Dolan way of doing things? Unless you know he is going to attract a super player-- no thanks. Hard pass.
Teams biggest hole is clearly a PG, but draft is over. So why not try to clear some dead weight for cap room, to keep the hope alive of getting a good guard in Brunson? He’s young, his numbers from last year would make him one of their best OGs of the last 30 years lol. He’s got more upside than downside, since he never was the lead guard for a full season.
Just please stop it with the comment about "the past 30 years."
Some of you are just out of your minds. To suggest the comment you made above has any relevance -- are you kidding???????????
Why not just reference the time of day in which his numbers are better then just go ahead and compare him to Lebron and Jordan during those times?
Just think last year how many here wanted Lillard.
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B
Teams biggest hole is clearly a PG, but draft is over. So why not try to clear some dead weight for cap room, to keep the hope alive of getting a good guard in Brunson? He’s young, his numbers from last year would make him one of their best OGs of the last 30 years lol. He’s got more upside than downside, since he never was the lead guard for a full season.
Just please stop it with the comment about "the past 30 years."
Some of you are just out of your minds. To suggest the comment you made above has any relevance -- are you kidding???????????
Why not just reference the time of day in which his numbers are better then just go ahead and compare him to Lebron and Jordan during those times?
Just think last year how many here wanted Lillard.
Ummm Okayyyyy
Do you need a hug? If you do, I’m here for you man…
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In comment 15741095 Shecky said:
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B
Teams biggest hole is clearly a PG, but draft is over. So why not try to clear some dead weight for cap room, to keep the hope alive of getting a good guard in Brunson? He’s young, his numbers from last year would make him one of their best OGs of the last 30 years lol. He’s got more upside than downside, since he never was the lead guard for a full season.
Just please stop it with the comment about "the past 30 years."
Some of you are just out of your minds. To suggest the comment you made above has any relevance -- are you kidding???????????
Why not just reference the time of day in which his numbers are better then just go ahead and compare him to Lebron and Jordan during those times?
Just think last year how many here wanted Lillard.
Ummm Okayyyyy
Do you need a hug? If you do, I’m here for you man…
huh??????
Are you off your meds again?
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with how I feel. I know he’s known as the giants.com guy but he’s a big Knicks fan and I’ve always found him to be very insightful about the team. Link - ( New Window )
He's wrong about Brunson. Here's why--
Brunson isn't going to turn you into a title contender at any point until you get a true superstar. If you get him, all you are doing is throwing more money at mediocrity without a plan to be a contender. He is telling you that Brunson is not an all-star yet what logic is there then to pay him an enormous contract?
Apparently he is okay with no real plan to get out of not being contender, but instead just being better. Hasn't that been the same Dolan way of doing things? Unless you know he is going to attract a super player-- no thanks. Hard pass.
The Dolan way of doing things is to sit on your hands and wait for the next superstar. I’m not sure how you don’t see that after the past 20 years. It’s gotten us nowhere because no star wants to come to a team in the world’s biggest market bereft of any sort of supporting cast. You can’t manifest a superstar out of thin air just because that’s what you want. There are two paths - what the Knicks are doing now and bottoming out and hoping and praying for ping pong balls in the correct draft class.
How on earth are the Nets not offering Kyrie the max right now? A few years after their big coup and the Knicks embarrassment and they're going to risk becoming the league's laughingstock? To what end?
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In comment 15741106 Strahan91 said:
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with how I feel. I know he’s known as the giants.com guy but he’s a big Knicks fan and I’ve always found him to be very insightful about the team. Link - ( New Window )
He's wrong about Brunson. Here's why--
Brunson isn't going to turn you into a title contender at any point until you get a true superstar. If you get him, all you are doing is throwing more money at mediocrity without a plan to be a contender. He is telling you that Brunson is not an all-star yet what logic is there then to pay him an enormous contract?
Apparently he is okay with no real plan to get out of not being contender, but instead just being better. Hasn't that been the same Dolan way of doing things? Unless you know he is going to attract a super player-- no thanks. Hard pass.
The Dolan way of doing things is to sit on your hands and wait for the next superstar. I’m not sure how you don’t see that after the past 20 years. It’s gotten us nowhere because no star wants to come to a team in the world’s biggest market bereft of any sort of supporting cast. You can’t manifest a superstar out of thin air just because that’s what you want. There are two paths - what the Knicks are doing now and bottoming out and hoping and praying for ping pong balls in the correct draft class.
I always thought the ranking with Dolson were looney (and with Faris). But with Dolson I can specifically remember some ranking service saying Dolson is the best center in the class. And either I watched a game of hers or highlights - or just the comments - showing/saying she is good in the low post, has a mid-range game (I'm almost positive I saw her shooting), and is a very good passer. And I thought "How the hell can she only be 39 with that size and skill?
You just know sometimes- the heck with the rankings. And rankings ofc can be extremely volatile as Nan pointed out and BobbyJ says - so what - if you like a player Geno isn't going by rankings.
I’m excited - her athleticism seems tremendous if what I am reading is correct -and that hasn't been UCONN's strong suit recently. Now after this year - looking forward - unsure about Griffin but Patterson and Samuels are two amazing athletes. They fit in well with ultra-skill from the guard spots with Azzi and Ducharme even without getting into Arnold and Shade.
Also her committing in which she is a 35 rank recruit – she must think that is nonsense. Along with she knows who her teammates will be in terms of competition and is still committing this early. She’s gotta be bleeding Husky Blue!!! And that is a tremendous sign!!!! Did I say I am excited with her potential? I am.
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Your assessment as to what needs to be done is backwards. You are right the Knicks could be a very attractive place. But in order to attract "Durant" you need enough cap space to also get "Irving." I can't understand how you don’t see this.
You don’t need to draft the top player- just good enough players where you would trade a bunch of them and have a few left over to support the superstar.
Again—I said this on this thread or the other—nothing personal – but your impatience leads to moves like signing Randle long-term or you or others pushing for Lillard last year. And now you are doing it again with Brunson.
I get it in a vacuum but they own none of their picks moving forward and their only means to staying out of the gutter would be... Ben Simmons. It's biting their nose off to spite their face imo
In doing so, it seemed like they did pretty good, getting three ones in return, instead of forcing a pick in a draft they clearly didn’t like.
Teams biggest hole is clearly a PG, but draft is over. So why not try to clear some dead weight for cap room, to keep the hope alive of getting a good guard in Brunson? He’s young, his numbers from last year would make him one of their best OGs of the last 30 years lol. He’s got more upside than downside, since he never was the lead guard for a full season.
More importantly, it takes Randle out of being the primary ball handler. Remember, Randle was by far his best with Rose than without him. Maybe they can salvage him. Plus Barret still rising. Then the young kids from last years draft plus IQ and Obi.
Call me crazy, but I’m OK with this. Lots of picks for trades or inexpensive bench pieces the next few years. A coup,e of decent sized contracts expiring they can fill in for trades. A bunch of young pieces they can use to trade for a very good player or disgruntled star player.
I don’t hate this at all. I actually like it. They did they hard thing, and pissed off fans that wanted something immediate. Everyone got their hopes up for Ivey, and anything less would disappoint. Not only did they swing and miss, they punted. But IMO, they punted and got the ball back in better field position fingers crossed
I think they were trying to clear cap space by not having a first round pick. I don't think that it is they did not like any of the players at 11. They wanted that ten million that a pick that low would eat up.
Seems like they are set on Brunson. Big mistake imo. He is going to be a lot less effective when he does not have Doncic drawing double teams.
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But it seems clear they were Ivey or bust. When the Knicks couldn’t get him, they didn’t like anyone at 11. If that’s the case, why not move out of the draft?
In doing so, it seemed like they did pretty good, getting three ones in return, instead of forcing a pick in a draft they clearly didn’t like.
Teams biggest hole is clearly a PG, but draft is over. So why not try to clear some dead weight for cap room, to keep the hope alive of getting a good guard in Brunson? He’s young, his numbers from last year would make him one of their best OGs of the last 30 years lol. He’s got more upside than downside, since he never was the lead guard for a full season.
More importantly, it takes Randle out of being the primary ball handler. Remember, Randle was by far his best with Rose than without him. Maybe they can salvage him. Plus Barret still rising. Then the young kids from last years draft plus IQ and Obi.
Call me crazy, but I’m OK with this. Lots of picks for trades or inexpensive bench pieces the next few years. A coup,e of decent sized contracts expiring they can fill in for trades. A bunch of young pieces they can use to trade for a very good player or disgruntled star player.
I don’t hate this at all. I actually like it. They did they hard thing, and pissed off fans that wanted something immediate. Everyone got their hopes up for Ivey, and anything less would disappoint. Not only did they swing and miss, they punted. But IMO, they punted and got the ball back in better field position fingers crossed
I think they were trying to clear cap space by not having a first round pick. I don't think that it is they did not like any of the players at 11. They wanted that ten million that a pick that low would eat up.
Seems like they are set on Brunson. Big mistake imo. He is going to be a lot less effective when he does not have Doncic drawing double teams.
Which his numbers say the complete opposite
You can't look at 15 games that Doncic missed in a season and say Brunson did not benefit from Doncic.
When a guy like Doncic goes down other guys have to pick up the slack and score more points so obviously their numbers are going to go up temporarily.
Looking at Brunson's numbers without Doncic is about meaningless as you can get. And what was Dallas record in games Doncic missed??
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that. The sample size of Brunson playing without Luka is plenty to draw insight from and it’s quite good. The Mavs without Luka (and actually THJ for most of those games) are a weaker supporting cast than what the Knicks will have around him. It’s not particularly close either
You can't look at 15 games that Doncic missed in a season and say Brunson did not benefit from Doncic.
When a guy like Doncic goes down other guys have to pick up the slack and score more points so obviously their numbers are going to go up temporarily.
Looking at Brunson's numbers without Doncic is about meaningless as you can get. And what was Dallas record in games Doncic missed??
Wait, looking at his numbers without Doncic doesnt show what he can did without Doncic? How does that make sense?
And the team outside of Doncic and Brunson is awful, Dinwiddie is ok, Hardaway Jr was hurt for most of the year, Finney smith is a defender...
The Mavs will be highly motivated to sign Brunson, even if it requires an overpay, because their cap situation makes it impossible to replace him.
But, once they have him signed, it is very possible, even likely, that the Mavs would look for the opportunity to ship out Brunson's contract in favor of a true star to match with Doncic.
And Brunson knows this. Signing with Dallas will lock in his money but doesn't mean certainty for his future.
The Mavs will be highly motivated to sign Brunson, even if it requires an overpay, because their cap situation makes it impossible to replace him.
But, once they have him signed, it is very possible, even likely, that the Mavs would look for the opportunity to ship out Brunson's contract in favor of a true star to match with Doncic.
And Brunson knows this. Signing with Dallas will lock in his money but doesn't mean certainty for his future.
There is a rumor/thought going around the NBA that good players do not like playing next Dkncic because he controls the ball so much
.Shooters, defenders and lob threats love playing with him but if you are a guy who is a scorer you are not going to enjoy playing with him..
I also think being the PG is a big factor for Brunson, he knows playing with Doncic there is a cap on how high his slceiling is, it grows if he goes somewhere he is the main PG
This is the best case scenario for the Knicks. And Randle is from Dallas and I’m sure he’d welcome the trade there. But I don’t see how that would intrigue Dallas at all
The Mavs will be highly motivated to sign Brunson, even if it requires an overpay, because their cap situation makes it impossible to replace him.
But, once they have him signed, it is very possible, even likely, that the Mavs would look for the opportunity to ship out Brunson's contract in favor of a true star to match with Doncic.
And Brunson knows this. Signing with Dallas will lock in his money but doesn't mean certainty for his future.
Sounds like Mavs fans just trying to be optimistic. The biggest criticism against this front office for the last two years has been that they’ve played it too conservative, haven’t taken a risk, and keep kicking the can down the road. Giving up assets to get off of Kemba’s contract, while only a small one, is taking a risk that this front office hasn’t shown a willingness to do in the past.
With the ties between Rose and CAA (who represent Brunson), the ties between Rose and the Brunson family, and the fact that Rick Brunson himself is a part of the staff, tells me that the reason they chose now to take a “risk” is because they already know it isn’t a risk and are certain of Jalen’s intent.
Show me what you're looking at though.
He scored more? If he scored more because he shot more, that doesn't really matter if his percentages went to hell
If he scored more while staying efficient that matters a lot.
As the primary ball handler did he start throwing the ball all over the place with turnovers? If not, that matters because it shows he's capable of doing more than he's asked to do playing off Luka being ball dominant.
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Brogdon would be a good choice because even though he is overpaid, his contract is only two more years.
All these second tier guys are a crapshoot. Brunson looked like he too some steps forward the last two years and if you sign him, you are betting that growth continues.
And that could well happen. However, it is just as likely or even more likely that he levels off or even regresses. Chris Childs put up numbers very similar to Brunson's the year before the Knicks signed him to a six year deal. Childs never lived up to that deal and it is quite possible that Brunson won't live up to his contract, especially if you are paying him 28 million per.
Probably a minimum of 3 firsts (at least one of our own unprotected) and two pick swaps (if he’s even available, I’m skeptical). As good as Murray is, he’s not a superstar and if you give up a package as if he is, they won’t have ammo to go after the next disgruntled actual superstar. Comparatively Brunson is a lower risk move that may not have the same ceiling but allows you to keep your ammo for Donovan Mitchell or someone else in a year or two if they force their way out.
Show me what you're looking at though.
He scored more? If he scored more because he shot more, that doesn't really matter if his percentages went to hell
If he scored more while staying efficient that matters a lot.
As the primary ball handler did he start throwing the ball all over the place with turnovers? If not, that matters because it shows he's capable of doing more than he's asked to do playing off Luka being ball dominant.
In 17 games without Luka, Brunson averaged 20.4 points, 3.9 rebounds and 7.5 assists with 2.1 turnovers . He took 16.2 shots per game with splits of 49.3/35/80.6
So basically big jump in production while efficiency stayed relatively the same.
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Might as well keep dreaming before reality hits.
Probably a minimum of 3 firsts (at least one of our own unprotected) and two pick swaps (if he’s even available, I’m skeptical). As good as Murray is, he’s not a superstar and if you give up a package as if he is, they won’t have ammo to go after the next disgruntled actual superstar. Comparatively Brunson is a lower risk move that may not have the same ceiling but allows you to keep your ammo for Donovan Mitchell or someone else in a year or two if they force their way out.
I think all the 1sts we added up were so that we could use our 1sts in a Murray or superstar trade. Our 1sts will be way more attractive because the other team can negotiate the protections. I do think there are more irons in the fire than just Brunson. I don't think he leaves Chicago but Lavine is getting interesting. Why hasn't he been locked up already? Also the Murray thing could heat up. There could be situations emerging that we haven't even heard about yet. Or maybe the Knicks will come up empty as usual. Who knows. I just do think it's interesting that suddenly out of nowhere, draft night the Knicks made this pivot. This is not February rumors of Durant coming here in the Summer. This happened a week outside of free agency.
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In comment 15741456 widmerseyebrow said:
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Might as well keep dreaming before reality hits.
Probably a minimum of 3 firsts (at least one of our own unprotected) and two pick swaps (if he’s even available, I’m skeptical). As good as Murray is, he’s not a superstar and if you give up a package as if he is, they won’t have ammo to go after the next disgruntled actual superstar. Comparatively Brunson is a lower risk move that may not have the same ceiling but allows you to keep your ammo for Donovan Mitchell or someone else in a year or two if they force their way out.
I think all the 1sts we added up were so that we could use our 1sts in a Murray or superstar trade. Our 1sts will be way more attractive because the other team can negotiate the protections. I do think there are more irons in the fire than just Brunson. I don't think he leaves Chicago but Lavine is getting interesting. Why hasn't he been locked up already? Also the Murray thing could heat up. There could be situations emerging that we haven't even heard about yet. Or maybe the Knicks will come up empty as usual. Who knows. I just do think it's interesting that suddenly out of nowhere, draft night the Knicks made this pivot. This is not February rumors of Durant coming here in the Summer. This happened a week outside of free agency.
Yeah it feels like they are either bluffing the mavs into accepting a sign and trade and then adding somrone else OR THEY SIGN brunson outright and trade or sign and trade for someone
Neither is giving up 60 million in their first big deal to go somewhere else. So Washington and Chicago are in no rush to sign them.
Free agency is pretty bare right now and will continue to be as long the the Bird rights are in place.
That's why the Knicks are forced to over pay for a 2nd/3rd option on a championship team
The NBA has destroyed FA with the bird rights max deals. Players are forced to sign max deals with their first team and force trades it's the only way to make top money.
The Knicks are playing it the right way but they have proven not to be able to pull the big name and have had zero draft luck.
As much as we value RJ, Grimes, Quickley, Toppin, etc other teams don't, they are all at best 3rd or 4th options on a good team. Part of the reason the pistons valued Ivey over anything we could put together.
I am not a fan of the Brunson deal because of it, I would prefer a tank with the kids we have now.
43 wins with RJ, Randle, Mitch, Fournier and Brunson and no cap room gets us nothing. Yes, we have draft picks but for a star, teams want young cheap talent and draft picks.
I hope they find a taker for Randle if they’re bringing Brunson on board. I want him gone either way but $200+ million guaranteed to those two over the next four years is a bit much, especially with another $100+ headed RJ’s way.
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43 wins with RJ, Randle, Mitch, Fournier and Brunson and no cap room gets us nothing.
I hope they find a taker for Randle if they’re bringing Brunson on board. I want him gone either way but $200+ million guaranteed to those two over the next four years is a bit much, especially with another $100+ headed RJ’s way.
It's going to take 2 things to get rid of Randle draft capital and a willingness to move him.
I think the Knicks over value Randle which they need to prove me wrong.
Also if the plan is to cut his minutes and his usage that is going to continue to decrease his value especially because he will be a distraction if that is the plan.
Is the front office willing to cut bait and get nothing for him for the long term future?
IMO I think they will continue to give him 35 minutes and try to make the playoffs this year.
Thibs wants to win now and IMO Thibs thinks Randle is a plus player to make that happen.
I thjink Burks and Noel will both be gone, No room for them on this team..
Obi needs to be the first big off the bench if Randle is still here, no more of this not playing Randle and Obi together..
If randle is here he moves off the ball, become more effecient player, rely on Brunson to set him up, not the other way around and if he cant he needs to come off the bench..
With Brunson 25 million makes him a middle of the road PG in terms of compensation..
Imagine if the Knicks ever had that big offseason and fielded a big time team….
So true. I live in Brooklyn and last year during the Knicks surprising campaign there were so many people around wearing Knicks gear. Rarely if ever did I see anyone with Nets gear despite the Knicks being overachievers while the Nets were legit title contenders.
Yep the Knicks can own this town like nobody else can. Unlike every other sport, they have no competition. The Nets have never even been a blip on the radar. In the 90's NY revolved around the Knicks in the spring except for '94 when they kind of shared it with the Rangers a bit
Are you telling me none of the players picked after 11th will amount to anything in this league? None of the those 3 picks will be used by us, or conferred at all?!?
Adding Brunson will improve the team no doubt, but I really don't know if he's a 25M a year player. What kind of cap flexibility will we have with him and Randle, and after signing Barrett? Oh, I guess, that's where the draft picks come in.
Just draft better, it's that simple.
Are you telling me none of the players picked after 11th will amount to anything in this league? None of the those 3 picks will be used by us, or conferred at all?!?
Adding Brunson will improve the team no doubt, but I really don't know if he's a 25M a year player. What kind of cap flexibility will we have with him and Randle, and after signing Barrett? Oh, I guess, that's where the draft picks come in.
Just draft better, it's that simple.
If we're extending Barrett, we need to cap out this year, so we can use bird rights on RJ and go over the cap and not use play ol' cap space on RJ.
The problem is when your big 3 are all firmly in the tier 2 of NBA players, that only put you in the mediocrity hell.
It's amusing Rose was brought here to recruit stars, and the only one he can reel in, maybe, is his god-son.
I know Stephen A. is a buffoon but he made the point that this Brunson pursuit is a bit amateurish due to the connections, adding his dad to the staff, etc. - and he’s not wrong. I think Leon and Wes are realizing this isn’t as simple as handing some kid a bag full of $100 bills and sending him to Kentucky. Hopefully they have solutions that work at this level because that flukey Randle season is the only thing keeping this from dumpster fire bad.
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It's amusing Rose was brought here to recruit stars, and the only one he can reel in, maybe, is his god-son.
I know Stephen A. is a buffoon but he made the point that this Brunson pursuit is a bit amateurish due to the connections, adding his dad to the staff, etc. - and he’s not wrong. I think Leon and Wes are realizing this isn’t as simple as handing some kid a bag full of $100 bills and sending him to Kentucky. Hopefully they have solutions that work at this level because that flukey Randle season is the only thing keeping this from dumpster fire bad.
Can't stand Steven A. But he is correct, this is not going all in on KD or Lebron in his prime.
Brunson better become an All star because we are definitely treating him like a star.
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In comment 15741756 Jim in Hoboken said:
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It's amusing Rose was brought here to recruit stars, and the only one he can reel in, maybe, is his god-son.
I know Stephen A. is a buffoon but he made the point that this Brunson pursuit is a bit amateurish due to the connections, adding his dad to the staff, etc. - and he’s not wrong. I think Leon and Wes are realizing this isn’t as simple as handing some kid a bag full of $100 bills and sending him to Kentucky. Hopefully they have solutions that work at this level because that flukey Randle season is the only thing keeping this from dumpster fire bad.
Can't stand Steven A. But he is correct, this is not going all in on KD or Lebron in his prime.
Brunson better become an All star because we are definitely treating him like a star.
How are they going all in? They will still have plenty if avenues to improve even after signing brunson
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. I think Leon and Wes are realizing this isn’t as simple as handing some kid a bag full of $100 bills and sending him to Kentucky. Hopefully they have solutions that work at this level because that flukey Randle season is the only thing keeping this from dumpster fire bad.
Lol about a bag full of $100 bills
They have drafted well, kept the team flexible, the team is healthy with 1sts and 2nds..The team is a dumpster fire they have some talent on this team, it is just to cluttered right now..
They need that star
I do not even think there is any guarantee he is better than IQ, who had a better first two years in the NBA than Brunson for sure.
That said, I do think he will give the Knicks enough extra wins to make the playoffs and maybe that's worth it because nobody knows what the future holds.
The fact is that he hasn’t moved the needle at all since he came on board. And when people keep saying that he hasn’t fucked anything up or mortgaged the future, that is a really low bar.
The fact is that he hasn’t moved the needle at all since he came on board. And when people keep saying that he hasn’t fucked anything up or mortgaged the future, that is a really low bar.
True. But it’s been over 20 years since a Knicks GM managed to get over that low bar.
The fact is that he hasn’t moved the needle at all since he came on board. And when people keep saying that he hasn’t fucked anything up or mortgaged the future, that is a really low bar.
I don't really understand the shitting on this front office. Since Rose has had the reigns, which star has become available to even lure to NY? Who was there to even convince? VanVleet, who stayed with his club? Ball, who really isn't all that good? Simmons? Harden? Would you touch either of them? Only guy I can think of is DeRozen who looked like he was in a bit of a decline. And let's be honest, this board would have been complaining about his contract if he signed with us last summer.
The organization has had years upon years of awful management. Is Rose any good? Who knows, the jury is still out. But I do know that this team, as flawed as it might be today, has the most promising future since before Melo got here.
They are young. Not only do they have their own draft picks, but they have additional picks as well. They are not in cap hell. Sure there are guys we would like off the roster, but a good amount of them fall off next year.
The one move that really blew up in their faces was Randle, but if he had performed like he did two years ago, the contract would be pretty reasonable. I'm really hoping his newborn is the reason for his decline and irritability last season, but that might be wishful thinking on my part.
Either way, as a long time Knicks fan, this organization is offering the most hope since Marcus Camby's sister got kidnapped during the playoffs two decades ago. I for one, don't need a quick fix. I just want them to avoid the big mistake like past regimes, looking for a quick fix.
Gotta be more reasonable when it comes to expectations for this team.
This is pretty much a make or break season for him.
So let’s use the Knicks as an example here. Let’s say the Knicks move Burks and sign Brunson and are capped out and then extend RJ and Mitch to go over the cap. You are now in a position where you have your young star locked up and have two players locked up next to him that your are identifying as part of your core in Brunson and Robinson. Beyond them, you have Quickley, Grimes, Toppin as young players to develop. Now that group alone likely isn’t enough to contend, but you’re in the playoff conversation. The front office has put themselves in a position where they have enough assets to put together a package for the next disgruntled star that demands a trade. The Knicks can put together a package with a mix of Randle, Fournier, Rose, Reddish, any of the young guys not named RJ, and have about 7 first round picks over the next 3 years that they can use to sweeten any deal.
Even if you want to call Randle a distressed asset, there is enough there to put together a package for a Donovan Mitchell, Bradley Beal, etc to bring in and play alongside Brunson, RJ, and Robinson. Brunson has already shown that he is good enough to be the sidekick on a Western Conference finals team, and now you have him in a position where he’d arguably be the third best player behind RJ (depending on how he develops) and whoever mystery star to come is.
I do not even think there is any guarantee he is better than IQ, who had a better first two years in the NBA than Brunson for sure.
That said, I do think he will give the Knicks enough extra wins to make the playoffs and maybe that's worth it because nobody knows what the future holds.
"megabucks" haha, he would be the 15th highest paod pg in the NBA
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I also don't think he will help attract a superstar. Those guys come to play with other superstars not with a fair to middling team.
I do not even think there is any guarantee he is better than IQ, who had a better first two years in the NBA than Brunson for sure.
That said, I do think he will give the Knicks enough extra wins to make the playoffs and maybe that's worth it because nobody knows what the future holds.
"megabucks" haha, he would be the 15th highest paod pg in the NBA
I also think I saw somewhere that depending on signings and extensions this off-season, not even in the top 50 highest paid in the league. It sounds like a lot of money, but by NBA standards is reasonable.
So, in the bottom half of SGs.
You just hear the total contract value and lose rationality.
Lame jokes aside, the org as a whole seems all over place and they don't have a clearly defined plan. It appears they're trying to thread the needle between trying to rebuild and contend at the same time - but they're not smart enough to do it. And they probably overrated just how "good' the team was in 20/21.
I think the following note from Katz sums it all up nicely:
So, in the bottom half of SGs.
You just hear the total contract value and lose rationality.
I mean all you need to know is the Mid level is 10 million now..cap is just going to keep rising..
That season was very fun but i also think it hurt them. If that season doesnt happen, Randle is probably gone, Burks, Noel are not here..
Now they are scrambiling to build a team around the youth rather than the vets
That season was very fun but i also think it hurt them. If that season doesnt happen, Randle is probably gone, Burks, Noel are not here..
Now they are scrambiling to build a team around the youth rather than the vets
the league had spoken with regard to contracts on guys like Noel and Rose the last few years. They were both bouncing around the league on small contracts. You have to trust yourself to be smart enough to find the next wave of guys like that on the cheap instead of paying for role players.
On the other hand, if you're doing a traditional rebuild, you're probably picking higher in the lottery and therefore don't have to trade up for Ivey or you actually have the assets to get him if you want instead of coming up short. And you probably have the cap space to sign Brunson without having to move money.
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gave the front office a false sense of cknfidence and thought they got lucky with Randle becoming an all NBA player. They immediately thought ok we have to add scorers in the back court and bring back Rose, Burks and Noel.
That season was very fun but i also think it hurt them. If that season doesnt happen, Randle is probably gone, Burks, Noel are not here..
Now they are scrambiling to build a team around the youth rather than the vets
the league had spoken with regard to contracts on guys like Noel and Rose the last few years. They were both bouncing around the league on small contracts. You have to trust yourself to be smart enough to find the next wave of guys like that on the cheap instead of paying for role players.
On the other hand, if you're doing a traditional rebuild, you're probably picking higher in the lottery and therefore don't have to trade up for Ivey or you actually have the assets to get him if you want instead of coming up short. And you probably have the cap space to sign Brunson without having to move money.
Yeah true, i just think making the playoffs put pressure on them to add rather than let go of guys. They couldnt jist say well that was fun now we are going to let go of all thr players that helped make it happen..
They tried to add to it, it didnt work, so now they are trying to add to their youth and even if they get rid of Randle, Burks, Noel, Fournier and even Rose, i dont think they will be bad enough to tank
The issue I have is with Randle. They didn’t need to extend him when they did, there was no chance he was leaving this year if he had gone out and repeated the all nba play of 2 seasons ago. He could make more money sticking with New York, and as we are seeing with Beal and have with other guys in the past, these guys want their money first and can figure out a new home if they want one later. The only reason to extend Randle last year was because they felt they were getting him at a discount. With the way he played against Atlanta, it was foolish not to wait and see because there were huge warning signs that the All NBA level play was an outlier due to the shortened season and no fans in the arenas.
The issue I have is with Randle. They didn’t need to extend him when they did, there was no chance he was leaving this year if he had gone out and repeated the all nba play of 2 seasons ago. He could make more money sticking with New York, and as we are seeing with Beal and have with other guys in the past, these guys want their money first and can figure out a new home if they want one later. The only reason to extend Randle last year was because they felt they were getting him at a discount. With the way he played against Atlanta, it was foolish not to wait and see because there were huge warning signs that the All NBA level play was an outlier due to the shortened season and no fans in the arenas.
I have the exact opposite take. Noel and Burks specifically, those are scrap heap guys. They're not 3 year contract guys who you need to pay. Noel especially. I feel like that's a guy that Thibs pounded the table for.
The thing is, when you have cap space you can be creative with it to take on bad contracts, or facilitate trades between teams for assets. So you can just look at the FA pool from that year and say Ball or DeRozen should have been the target (they should have been).
That offseason was the most frustrating for me. I really thought they could have used it to either amass assets if you thought that the success that year was a mirage, or upgrade the roster.
Randle was coming off a career year where he looked motivated and had responded well to the coach and new regime. Even if you thought he would regress, it was hard to envision him having the worst season of his career.
To me, Free agency signings have been the biggest failing of this front office and it's not close. Hopefully they can turn it around.
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Last off-season, because I think based on the success they had the season prior it made sense to try and run it back to an extent to see if it could be repeated. Ultimately, the guy I think we would have wanted as an alternative would have been Lonzo Ball, and we probably would have had to go higher than the 4/80 that the Bulls offered to get him away from going to Chicago. Obviously it didn’t work out with those vets, and now we are going to basically turn that money into Brunson. Even if it costs 4/100 or in that area, I’d rather be paying him than Lonzo Ball.
The issue I have is with Randle. They didn’t need to extend him when they did, there was no chance he was leaving this year if he had gone out and repeated the all nba play of 2 seasons ago. He could make more money sticking with New York, and as we are seeing with Beal and have with other guys in the past, these guys want their money first and can figure out a new home if they want one later. The only reason to extend Randle last year was because they felt they were getting him at a discount. With the way he played against Atlanta, it was foolish not to wait and see because there were huge warning signs that the All NBA level play was an outlier due to the shortened season and no fans in the arenas.
I have the exact opposite take. Noel and Burks specifically, those are scrap heap guys. They're not 3 year contract guys who you need to pay. Noel especially. I feel like that's a guy that Thibs pounded the table for.
The thing is, when you have cap space you can be creative with it to take on bad contracts, or facilitate trades between teams for assets. So you can just look at the FA pool from that year and say Ball or DeRozen should have been the target (they should have been).
That offseason was the most frustrating for me. I really thought they could have used it to either amass assets if you thought that the success that year was a mirage, or upgrade the roster.
Randle was coming off a career year where he looked motivated and had responded well to the coach and new regime. Even if you thought he would regress, it was hard to envision him having the worst season of his career.
To me, Free agency signings have been the biggest failing of this front office and it's not close. Hopefully they can turn it around.
They thought they were upgrading the roster by going from Payton and Bullock to Fournier and Kemba, unfortunately neither of those moves worked out how we had hoped. Fournier showed enough last year that you could say the contract isn’t a total disaster, but Kemba obviously was.
And as stated earlier, you can’t just sit on your cap space when you have young players that are extension eligible within a year. Yeah they could have parlayed their open space last year to pick up picks for bad contracts, but where does that get you? Now you’re stuck with bad contracts and no flexibility to build around your young core other than just hoping you get lucky hitting on a late lottery pick.
Also none of those contracts are 3 year deals. All 3 of those guys are voidable after this season, they were 2 year deals with the option to be 3 if the team wanted to pick up the option.
Keels is getting some love for his defense in other descriptions I’ve seen, and I’ve gotta say … I must have been out of town for those games. Keels has a strong body, but I’m not sure he can stay in front of anyone at the next level. He didn’t really get into the ball but still gave up a ton of straight-line drives and wasn’t great at contesting shots at the end of the play either.
That said, let’s not get lost in the weeds here. He doesn’t turn 19 until August and turned in a very solid season as a starter in the ACC. He has a chance, especially if the shooting improves. Also, the Ethan Strauss Memorial Fat Is Potential In Disguise (FIPID) factor comes into play here, as Keels measured with 13.5 percent body fat at the combine.
He therefore gave two year deals to vets whom he had just the year before signed on cheap one-year deals.
As many predicted, this turned out to be a mistake. So, what a good organization does is accept that they made a mistake and have to wait out the two years. But not the Knicks. They are willing to trade draft assets to have other teams take their mistakes so they can go out and make further mistakes by signing a guy who is no more a sure thing than the Burks/Nerl/Gibson/Rose quartet.
The logic seems to be: it did not work signing 4 veteran guys for 80 million so let's go sign one supposedly rising guy for 100+ million.
In other words, they are doing the exact opposite of what they did last year, as one mistake leads to and informs the next mistake.
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Keels is built like a tank, had a reasonably good freshman year that included a high steal rate, and his biggest weakness (shooting) is the one thing that is most fixable at the NBA level. He made 31.2 percent from 3 and 69.3 percent from the line, but I wouldn’t say his shot is broken. However, he isn’t a natural distributor either; his assist-turnover ratio from his freshman season reflects that he spent some time at the point, but once he heads to the cup he’s thinking shot. Keels also isn’t a great leaper, relying a little too much on beastball around the basket, and one wonders how that will translate as a pro.
Keels is getting some love for his defense in other descriptions I’ve seen, and I’ve gotta say … I must have been out of town for those games. Keels has a strong body, but I’m not sure he can stay in front of anyone at the next level. He didn’t really get into the ball but still gave up a ton of straight-line drives and wasn’t great at contesting shots at the end of the play either.
That said, let’s not get lost in the weeds here. He doesn’t turn 19 until August and turned in a very solid season as a starter in the ACC. He has a chance, especially if the shooting improves. Also, the Ethan Strauss Memorial Fat Is Potential In Disguise (FIPID) factor comes into play here, as Keels measured with 13.5 percent body fat at the combine.
NY Post article on Keels.
Link - ( New Window )
Opinions from Krzyzewski and his minions are worth about as much as AOL trial discs from 1996.
This is pretty much a make or break season for him.
Agreed.
In fact, if I'm trading for a guy like Murray (who isn't a top tier "star") I would definitely include RJ to make it happen. A lead guard like Murray would end decades of ineptitude at the position and it would be easier to find a wing that could replace RJ.
He therefore gave two year deals to vets whom he had just the year before signed on cheap one-year deals.
As many predicted, this turned out to be a mistake. So, what a good organization does is accept that they made a mistake and have to wait out the two years. But not the Knicks. They are willing to trade draft assets to have other teams take their mistakes so they can go out and make further mistakes by signing a guy who is no more a sure thing than the Burks/Nerl/Gibson/Rose quartet.
The logic seems to be: it did not work signing 4 veteran guys for 80 million so let's go sign one supposedly rising guy for 100+ million.
In other words, they are doing the exact opposite of what they did last year, as one mistake leads to and informs the next mistake.
No good organizations realize a midtake and move off of it and with their trades on draft night they gained draft capital not lost..
You act like signing Brunson means thats it Knicks cant add anymore and the team is at a ceiling...and 25 million for a starting PG is nothing..
Donovan Mitchell is a pipe dream as the Knicks will never be able to make a deal with Danny Ainge
Zion - He will sign the rookie max extension
KAT - Seems like Minnesota has a good future
SGA - He is not a #1 guy in my mind
Sign Brunson..
Trade Randle and Fournier for Kyrie hahahaha
@TheNBACentral
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39s
The belief among both league and player circles is that Kyrie Irving is GONE, per @Krisplashed
The Nets believe Kyrie Irving is not committed to doing what it takes to be on the floor every game for his teammates
Donovan Mitchell is a pipe dream as the Knicks will never be able to make a deal with Danny Ainge
Zion - He will sign the rookie max extension
KAT - Seems like Minnesota has a good future
SGA - He is not a #1 guy in my mind
Its silly to even mention championship now. They should take the following steps:
1 sign Brunson
2 the presence of Brunson serves to take the ball out of Randle's hands
3 the prior two bullet points are necessary to help all the kids develop (Randle hijacking the offense blocks that development)
4 this in turn results in a better league opinion of NYK roster by NBA teams and thus starts to open up trade possibilities
People are claiming he's eying Phoenix and Portland
He's probably gonna go ham in the Summer league and we can get excited about him again.
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That's a shame.
People are claiming he's eying Phoenix and Portland
Portland i could see, Simons signa dn trade, daniels and multiple picks for Durant
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ranked Keels #30 on his board, the write-up wasn't amazing but that's still like landing a late 1st
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Keels is built like a tank, had a reasonably good freshman year that included a high steal rate, and his biggest weakness (shooting) is the one thing that is most fixable at the NBA level. He made 31.2 percent from 3 and 69.3 percent from the line, but I wouldn’t say his shot is broken. However, he isn’t a natural distributor either; his assist-turnover ratio from his freshman season reflects that he spent some time at the point, but once he heads to the cup he’s thinking shot. Keels also isn’t a great leaper, relying a little too much on beastball around the basket, and one wonders how that will translate as a pro.
Keels is getting some love for his defense in other descriptions I’ve seen, and I’ve gotta say … I must have been out of town for those games. Keels has a strong body, but I’m not sure he can stay in front of anyone at the next level. He didn’t really get into the ball but still gave up a ton of straight-line drives and wasn’t great at contesting shots at the end of the play either.
That said, let’s not get lost in the weeds here. He doesn’t turn 19 until August and turned in a very solid season as a starter in the ACC. He has a chance, especially if the shooting improves. Also, the Ethan Strauss Memorial Fat Is Potential In Disguise (FIPID) factor comes into play here, as Keels measured with 13.5 percent body fat at the combine.
NY Post article on Keels. Link - ( New Window )
He's a just role player assuming he can fix his shooting.
Release the hounds. Meaning move heaven and earth to get Durant to relocate by about 5 miles, give or take.
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That's a shame.
Release the hounds. Meaning move heaven and earth to get Durant to relocate by about 5 miles, give or take.
zero chance they trade durant to the knicks
Memphis should trade for KD.
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Keels is built like a tank, had a reasonably good freshman year that included a high steal rate, and his biggest weakness (shooting) is the one thing that is most fixable at the NBA level. He made 31.2 percent from 3 and 69.3 percent from the line, but I wouldn’t say his shot is broken. However, he isn’t a natural distributor either; his assist-turnover ratio from his freshman season reflects that he spent some time at the point, but once he heads to the cup he’s thinking shot. Keels also isn’t a great leaper, relying a little too much on beastball around the basket, and one wonders how that will translate as a pro.
Keels is getting some love for his defense in other descriptions I’ve seen, and I’ve gotta say … I must have been out of town for those games. Keels has a strong body, but I’m not sure he can stay in front of anyone at the next level. He didn’t really get into the ball but still gave up a ton of straight-line drives and wasn’t great at contesting shots at the end of the play either.
That said, let’s not get lost in the weeds here. He doesn’t turn 19 until August and turned in a very solid season as a starter in the ACC. He has a chance, especially if the shooting improves. Also, the Ethan Strauss Memorial Fat Is Potential In Disguise (FIPID) factor comes into play here, as Keels measured with 13.5 percent body fat at the combine.
Interesting to see if he can turn himself into something. He is super raw and has a long way to go to be an NBA player IMO. I guess they are betting on a pretty good ceiling but if he plays anywhere but Westchester in his career, I'll be pleasantly surprised.
I think so in that a real PG would make everyone better because everyone's a better offensive player.
But you can't rule out Thibs being Thibs and forcing the offense to run through Point-Randle.
No if anything Randle will drag Brunson down. Randle is a ISO player that does not push pace.
One of the biggest reason Rose doesn't play with the first unit. Randle wants the ball in his hand and control pace when they give the ball to RJ to run the offense through him Randle played worse. Unless Randle comes in an understands his role and accepts it I don't see how it works.
To be fair any culture the Nets had was gone when the signed Durant & Irving. Only got worse once Atkinson was fired.
Also, just about every Knick fan was hoping to sign Durant & Irving in 2019 as well.
@wojespn
ESPN Sources: Outside of the Lakers, there are currently no known teams planning pursuit of sign-and-trades for Nets G Kyrie Irving. No sign-and-trades can be formally discussed until after 6 PM on Thursday. Brooklyn isn't believed to have interest in available Lakers packages.
🤡🤡🤡.
@JakeLFischer
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Sources with knowledge of the situation have increasingly believed Kyrie Irving's willingness to opt out of Brooklyn, sign the $6M taxpayer midlevel with the Lakers, where Irving can re-sign long-term in 2023.
@JakeLFischer
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1m
Sources with knowledge of the situation have increasingly believed Kyrie Irving's willingness to opt out of Brooklyn, sign the $6M taxpayer midlevel with the Lakers, where Irving can re-sign long-term in 2023.
I could see that happening. I want no part of Kyrie
On another note, Is Mitchell worth all the assets that it would take to land him or are you better off going after someone like LaVine or Beal? Not saying the Knicks have a chance at any of the three anyway
Link - ( New Window )
Some of the same reasons I feel the Knicks are making a mistake going in big on Brunson.
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Would Brunson on the floor make Randle a better player?
No if anything Randle will drag Brunson down. Randle is a ISO player that does not push pace.
One of the biggest reason Rose doesn't play with the first unit. Randle wants the ball in his hand and control pace when they give the ball to RJ to run the offense through him Randle played worse. Unless Randle comes in an understands his role and accepts it I don't see how it works.
I'm down on Randle and want him traded but I disagree with this, TBH. Brunson has a ton of experience playing off the ball and is nearly a 40% catch and shoot 3pt guy who is really smart about finding himself open for the ball handler so when Randle has the ball, he's the perfect guy to help with spacing. Randle had a nice two man game with Bullock, and I envision a better version of this where Brunson can hurt the defense when they are too aggressive off the closeout, which Bullock could never do.
A guy like Brunson can get Randle the ball where he wants it in the half court and punish the defense if they rotate toward Randle early because he's a really smart cutter, too. He's a talented ISO guy as well that can help late in games when Randle was asked to carry the entire load most nights (which he did really well two years ago and not well at all last year).
Brunson doesn't salvage Randle's contract, mainly because of the terrible season JR had last year making that contract look bad and because Randle is blocking Obi, who needs to play. But Brunson, at least offensively, fits as well as anyone with Randle, IMO.
Not groundbreaking but I hear the Nets are a complete shit show right now.
Zero shot Durant is ever traded to the Knicks.
@JakeLFischer
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1m
Sources with knowledge of the situation have increasingly believed Kyrie Irving's willingness to opt out of Brooklyn, sign the $6M taxpayer midlevel with the Lakers, where Irving can re-sign long-term in 2023.
that's a huge risk on Irving's part. The Lakers would not have his bird rights.
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blog on the Brunson "decision" Link - ( New Window )
Some of the same reasons I feel the Knicks are making a mistake going in big on Brunson.
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The Mavericks overpay for an undersized guard without elite athleticism that will likely never make an All-Star game. I love Brunson and appreciate the hard work he put in to maximize his talent. At the same time, I’d be lying if I said he was a top 40 player. In fact, he may not be top 50.
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A non-All-Star level player making $28 million dollars a year is not a trade asset. While any contract can theoretically be moved that doesn’t mean it can be moved for value. Kevin Hurter, Duncan Robinson, Terry Rozier, and our very own Tim Hardaway Jr. should be examples of what happens when you pay non-stars star-level money. All four players are useful and can help you win games. Their contracts, however, make them nearly impossible to move for value.
Just read the article/blog and agree on the above. I like Brunson and think he'd help here, what does this do to move the needle? Maybe they are a .500 team? that is like the worst place to be in the NBA.
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In comment 15742011 DanMetroMan said:
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blog on the Brunson "decision" Link - ( New Window )
Some of the same reasons I feel the Knicks are making a mistake going in big on Brunson.
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The Mavericks overpay for an undersized guard without elite athleticism that will likely never make an All-Star game. I love Brunson and appreciate the hard work he put in to maximize his talent. At the same time, I’d be lying if I said he was a top 40 player. In fact, he may not be top 50.
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A non-All-Star level player making $28 million dollars a year is not a trade asset. While any contract can theoretically be moved that doesn’t mean it can be moved for value. Kevin Hurter, Duncan Robinson, Terry Rozier, and our very own Tim Hardaway Jr. should be examples of what happens when you pay non-stars star-level money. All four players are useful and can help you win games. Their contracts, however, make them nearly impossible to move for value.
Just read the article/blog and agree on the above. I like Brunson and think he'd help here, what does this do to move the needle? Maybe they are a .500 team? that is like the worst place to be in the NBA.
He moves the needle in allowing the team to exit perennial loser mode and into a team that plays like Memphis sans Ja (a smart, competitive atmosphere conducive to allowing our bevy of young players to develop).
In short, we desperately need a lead guard.
This notion of thinking we're otherwise getting Lebron in his prime needs to be set aside.
If you import a player from another team, you are going to pay a lot.
If we set the number at 26m, that would place Brunson 47th in the NBA in cap hit, or 16th among Point Guards. .
Is the argument that you don't like the idea of paying a player you don't know well 26million, or that you know Jalen Brunson isn't even middle of the pack among Point Guards?
If he does it again id be surprised, they have no picks, no cap space and the chances of them getting 2 generational players on the nets again are slim..
It took a lot of luck for them last time, remember he signed Allen Crabbe and tyler Johnson to big deals that got matched..
If you import a player from another team, you are going to pay a lot.
If we set the number at 26m, that would place Brunson 47th in the NBA in cap hit, or 16th among Point Guards. .
Is the argument that you don't like the idea of paying a player you don't know well 26million, or that you know Jalen Brunson isn't even middle of the pack among Point Guards?
You are making a 6'1 PG with limited upside the highest paid player on this team that will never be an all-star or more than a 3rd option on a championship team.
This contract will not be easy to move or live up to in the future.
Better off running with Quickley next year as he has more upside than Brunson does long term and will not require that commitment.
This deal will look horrible in 2 years IMO.
Save the thread.
Fuck 'em.
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on trying to attach hard rules on free agent contracts.
If you import a player from another team, you are going to pay a lot.
If we set the number at 26m, that would place Brunson 47th in the NBA in cap hit, or 16th among Point Guards. .
Is the argument that you don't like the idea of paying a player you don't know well 26million, or that you know Jalen Brunson isn't even middle of the pack among Point Guards?
You are making a 6'1 PG with limited upside the highest paid player on this team that will never be an all-star or more than a 3rd option on a championship team.
This contract will not be easy to move or live up to in the future.
Better off running with Quickley next year as he has more upside than Brunson does long term and will not require that commitment.
This deal will look horrible in 2 years IMO.
Save the thread.
Why do people keep mentioning CHAMPIONSHIP TEAM?
The Knicks need to find an sustainable environment where they are no longer a laughing stock, where their young players can thrive without watching a guy like Julius Randle piss away their development years and any hope of a decent record.
Once we gain some momentum and I view Brunson as a conduit to that, then things start to open up a bit. In other words, if a disgruntled star wants out, the Knicks may have a roster of players that are viewed as attractive pieces.
But this, CHAMPIONSHIP notion. Please realize that no star is walking through the door any time soon.
KD's market will be interesting. His list of teams (if he even provides more than just a single destination) will dictate the market but I wonder if the Nets are going to try to just get a bunch of picks or shoot for a young player who could be a star like a Scottie Barnes for example. I doubt Toronto would do that but that was the first name that popped into my head.
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on trying to attach hard rules on free agent contracts.
If you import a player from another team, you are going to pay a lot.
If we set the number at 26m, that would place Brunson 47th in the NBA in cap hit, or 16th among Point Guards. .
Is the argument that you don't like the idea of paying a player you don't know well 26million, or that you know Jalen Brunson isn't even middle of the pack among Point Guards?
You are making a 6'1 PG with limited upside the highest paid player on this team that will never be an all-star or more than a 3rd option on a championship team.
This contract will not be easy to move or live up to in the future.
Better off running with Quickley next year as he has more upside than Brunson does long term and will not require that commitment.
This deal will look horrible in 2 years IMO.
Save the thread.
Why will Brunson never be an all star? VanVleet just made the all star team with numbers that were a hair worse than Brunson's stats when Luka didn't play. He just was the 2nd option on a team in the conference finals and there's no reason to believe he's hit his absolute ceiling. In fact, the opposite might be true given that he's a rare player who's gotten significantly better every year he's played dating back to his freshman year at Villanova.
Clearly the Nets aren't cool anymore either haha
Wiggins
Wiseman
Moody
Kuminga
Multiple picks
Not sure golden state is interested though
yup
Wiggins
Wiseman
Moody
Kuminga
Multiple picks
Not sure golden state is interested though
I wouldnt if i am Golden state, they are set up for now and the future
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Hate to say it but Golden state can offer the best package for KD:
Wiggins
Wiseman
Moody
Kuminga
Multiple picks
Not sure golden state is interested though
I wouldnt if i am Golden state, they are set up for now and the future
Idk. Steph is their guy. Without him, they don't win. He's their window imo. Might make sense to bring back KD to secure a couple more.
Pretty sure most of the people commenting on him and underrating him are just looking at stats and have never actually watched him play.
Windhorst said teams are preparing offers for KD, He said he has heard teams specifically going to their Stars and saying would you want to play with Kyrie or KD
Seriously. People acting like he's THJ.
Windhorst said teams are preparing offers for KD, He said he has heard teams specifically going to their Stars and saying would you want to play with Kyrie or KD
Five or six firsts? Probably not enough to get him. He's 33. Idk what he's worth to us.
Brunson-Grimes-RJ-KD-Mitch
IQ-Rose-Obi-Sims
Does that compete? Idk.
Windhorst said teams are preparing offers for KD, He said he has heard teams specifically going to their Stars and saying would you want to play with Kyrie or KD
Pretty much all of them.
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on trying to attach hard rules on free agent contracts.
If you import a player from another team, you are going to pay a lot.
If we set the number at 26m, that would place Brunson 47th in the NBA in cap hit, or 16th among Point Guards. .
Is the argument that you don't like the idea of paying a player you don't know well 26million, or that you know Jalen Brunson isn't even middle of the pack among Point Guards?
You are making a 6'1 PG with limited upside the highest paid player on this team that will never be an all-star or more than a 3rd option on a championship team.
You don't know, or can't show your work, on any of these conclusions.
Why? Because he's 6'1? Because he was a second round pick?
This is not to say you're wrong, but you're going on 'gut' here more than anything else.
@ZachKleinWSB
17m
In talking with multiple sources around the NBA, many believe Hawks on verge of trading for San Antonio's All-Star guard Dejounte Murray - However, it's looking like John Collins is not part of deal. Would be Gallo & multiple 1st round picks. Spurs prepping for future & '23 draft
he's good but, as of now, he's a level below the all-star guards in this league. If you keep paying guys like that (even if the deals aren't crazy overpays), your path to building a contending team can become difficult.
@ZachKleinWSB
17m
In talking with multiple sources around the NBA, many believe Hawks on verge of trading for San Antonio's All-Star guard Dejounte Murray - However, it's looking like John Collins is not part of deal. Would be Gallo & multiple 1st round picks. Spurs prepping for future & '23 draft
that seems like a bargain price for Murray. I guess I'd question why a smart team like the Spurs are looking to move him when he's under team control for 2 more years.
@ZachKleinWSB
17m
In talking with multiple sources around the NBA, many believe Hawks on verge of trading for San Antonio's All-Star guard Dejounte Murray - However, it's looking like John Collins is not part of deal. Would be Gallo & multiple 1st round picks. Spurs prepping for future & '23 draft
Who gets the ball? Murray or Young? Both averaged 9 assists last year.
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Zach Klein
@ZachKleinWSB
17m
In talking with multiple sources around the NBA, many believe Hawks on verge of trading for San Antonio's All-Star guard Dejounte Murray - However, it's looking like John Collins is not part of deal. Would be Gallo & multiple 1st round picks. Spurs prepping for future & '23 draft
that seems like a bargain price for Murray. I guess I'd question why a smart team like the Spurs are looking to move him when he's under team control for 2 more years.
He's an inefficient scorer?
@ZachKleinWSB
17m
In talking with multiple sources around the NBA, many believe Hawks on verge of trading for San Antonio's All-Star guard Dejounte Murray - However, it's looking like John Collins is not part of deal. Would be Gallo & multiple 1st round picks. Spurs prepping for future & '23 draft
That would be an absolute steal
Brunson-Kyrie-Grimes-KD-Mitch
IQ-Cam-Obi-Sims?
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Zach Klein
@ZachKleinWSB
17m
In talking with multiple sources around the NBA, many believe Hawks on verge of trading for San Antonio's All-Star guard Dejounte Murray - However, it's looking like John Collins is not part of deal. Would be Gallo & multiple 1st round picks. Spurs prepping for future & '23 draft
that seems like a bargain price for Murray. I guess I'd question why a smart team like the Spurs are looking to move him when he's under team control for 2 more years.
From what I’ve heard it sounds like between picks and pick swaps the Spurs will own the Hawks draft for the next 5 years
@ZachKleinWSB
17m
In talking with multiple sources around the NBA, many believe Hawks on verge of trading for San Antonio's All-Star guard Dejounte Murray - However, it's looking like John Collins is not part of deal. Would be Gallo & multiple 1st round picks. Spurs prepping for future & '23 draft
There are about 28 teams that could destroy that offer.That offer absolutely sucks. The Hawks picks will not be very good. Gallo is cooked. The question is, why aren’t more teams involved if that’s the asking price?
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A lot of underrating of Brunson on here
he's good but, as of now, he's a level below the all-star guards in this league. If you keep paying guys like that (even if the deals aren't crazy overpays), your path to building a contending team can become difficult.
Hell be there 15th highest paid PG in the league, and better than three of the guys who would be ahead of him.
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Zach Klein
@ZachKleinWSB
17m
In talking with multiple sources around the NBA, many believe Hawks on verge of trading for San Antonio's All-Star guard Dejounte Murray - However, it's looking like John Collins is not part of deal. Would be Gallo & multiple 1st round picks. Spurs prepping for future & '23 draft
There are about 28 teams that could destroy that offer.That offer absolutely sucks. The Hawks picks will not be very good. Gallo is cooked. The question is, why aren’t more teams involved if that’s the asking price?
Nobody wants to deal with Klutch
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[The Athletic] Fred Katz asked 16 front offices if RJ Barrett is worth the max contract $185m: No one advocated for the Knicks to give him the max (twitter.com)
pretty sure the only people that think he deserves the max are homer Knick fans. And his agent.
@esidery
The betting odds for Deandre Ayton to land with the Nets just had another massive jump moments ago on @DraftKings
. It went from +6000 to +2200 to +700.
Brooklyn now has the third-best odds to land Ayton behind the Suns (+115) and Pistons (+225) 👀
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Zach Klein
@ZachKleinWSB
17m
In talking with multiple sources around the NBA, many believe Hawks on verge of trading for San Antonio's All-Star guard Dejounte Murray - However, it's looking like John Collins is not part of deal. Would be Gallo & multiple 1st round picks. Spurs prepping for future & '23 draft
There are about 28 teams that could destroy that offer.That offer absolutely sucks. The Hawks picks will not be very good. Gallo is cooked. The question is, why aren’t more teams involved if that’s the asking price?
How do you know without knowing how many picks? Just says multiple
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In comment 15742086 ajr2456 said:
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A lot of underrating of Brunson on here
he's good but, as of now, he's a level below the all-star guards in this league. If you keep paying guys like that (even if the deals aren't crazy overpays), your path to building a contending team can become difficult.
Hell be there 15th highest paid PG in the league, and better than three of the guys who would be ahead of him.
of course it won't just be costing us $$ to get him. There's the price already paid to clear Kemba plus whatever we end up having to attach in subsequent moves. I like the player. I don't hate the contract he'll end up with. But when you start adding in the draft capital and associated opportunity costs, you wonder if it's all worth it.
of course it won't just be costing us $$ to get him. There's the price already paid to clear Kemba plus whatever we end up having to attach in subsequent moves. I like the player. I don't hate the contract he'll end up with. But when you start adding in the draft capital and associated opportunity costs, you wonder if it's all worth it.
Until it actually happens I'm skeptical that the Knicks will be giving up much of anything else to clear up a bit more space. At most I think it would be a second round pick. I bet the Mavs would want Noel or Burks in a S&T anyways, maybe with Reddish to make the math work.
@TheNBACentral
·
32s
Miami is not currently willing to give up its top assets to acquire Kyrie Irving, per @flasportsbuzz
The list includes Bam Adebayo and Jimmy Butler, and Tyler Herro
Quote:
In comment 15742104 bceagle05 said:
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Zach Klein
@ZachKleinWSB
17m
In talking with multiple sources around the NBA, many believe Hawks on verge of trading for San Antonio's All-Star guard Dejounte Murray - However, it's looking like John Collins is not part of deal. Would be Gallo & multiple 1st round picks. Spurs prepping for future & '23 draft
There are about 28 teams that could destroy that offer.That offer absolutely sucks. The Hawks picks will not be very good. Gallo is cooked. The question is, why aren’t more teams involved if that’s the asking price?
How do you know without knowing how many picks? Just says multiple
Well sure, but the Hawks should be picking in the 20’s for the foreseeable future. And the pick swaps are incredibly unlikely to be conveyed because it’s unlikely the Spurs end up picking after the Hawks in the near term.
Cause they probably promised to pay Brunson
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have committed to Brunson (obviously) and now are handcuffed in terms of what else they can do. Why wouldn’t they be all over Murray?
Cause they probably promised to pay Brunson
Do you think they pinky promised?
Evan Roberts doesnt bring up the Nets when bad things are happening with them, only when good things happen
And the talk is this would mean Durant to the Suns.
twitter - ( New Window )
Because they want to keep their draft capital mostly dry to have the means to go after the next superstar that becomes available. If you trade essentially your next ~5 or so drafts and pay him $40M/year you're going to have a tough time putting together an appealing offer when the time comes to get *the* guy
Are we sure Murray is that much better than Brunson? Why give up a ton of assets for Murray when you can just sign Brunson outright?
They are same age, Murray has better PER, Brunson has better TS% and they are about equal in terms of WS and WS/48
i'm a nova guy and have followed brunson dating back to his HS days. He's an absolute warrior and a true culture guy. He won't let teammates half ass it. brunson 4/100 is not a bad deal at all.
And the talk is this would mean Durant to the Suns.
twitter - ( New Window )
Link - ( New Window )
Still think there is more than just Brunson in the works
They'd have to match salary. I doubt Mitchell forces his way out this offseason, I'm thinking next is more likely but if he did something like Burks, Noel, Toppin, Reddish and a ton of picks would work under the cap.
Like could we trade picks for Mitchell, sign Brunson and extend RJ?
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They'd have to match salary. I doubt Mitchell forces his way out this offseason, I'm thinking next is more likely but if he did something like Burks, Noel, Toppin, Reddish and a ton of picks would work under the cap.
Thanks!
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They'd have to match salary. I doubt Mitchell forces his way out this offseason, I'm thinking next is more likely but if he did something like Burks, Noel, Toppin, Reddish and a ton of picks would work under the cap.
Ainge will want ALL of the picks. And when it comes to our picks, he's gonna want unprotected picks and swaps.
Ainge will want ALL of the picks. And when it comes to our picks, he's gonna want unprotected picks and swaps.
True but the Knicks will have *some* leverage because no team that would be in on Mitchell (IE OKC) can offer the kind of draft capital the Knicks can
This guy is so delusional and selfish.
I still need to see it to believe it but it really does look like the Lakers are his only potential destination.
He doesn't do deals unless they're vastly weighed in his favor.
He also has no reason to trade Mitchell. Mitchell's making 30-37 million a year in Utah and he's signed long term. He has to make a mess of his situation and demand a trade first.
He also has no reason to trade Mitchell. Mitchell's making 30-37 million a year in Utah and he's signed long term. He has to make a mess of his situation and demand a trade first.
Mitchell demanding a trade would be the precursor for sure. It's a star-driven league, if he wants out he can get out
I don't think Mitchell vs. Murray is even close. Brunson and Murray is much closer imo and the advanced stats agree (not that they're perfect). Murray is a really good player but he can't shoot which makes it much more challenging to build a contender around him (great fit with Trae though). Even prime Russell Westbrook had a higher eFG% than Murray.
I like mitchell so im not saying he sux, but all the numbers seem pretty close, again unless you are pulling like career stats.
What about Randle for Zubac (partially guaranteed but likely would be guaranteed before a deal was done, 2 days, an expiring deal after the season), Reggie Jackson and extremely underrated (and from Brooklyn) Terrence Mann?
Mann this year 11 and 5 with 3 assists 48% from the field 37% from 3 78% from the line career .122 WS/48
They would still be able to sign Brunson + open minutes up for Obi.
I like mitchell so im not saying he sux, but all the numbers seem pretty close, again unless you are pulling like career stats.
I was comparing Brunson to Murray although not quite fair since both players have improved every year in the league and Murray's got an extra season under his belt. I was specifically referring to WS and ORtg/DRtg although it's hard to compare the two given the usage delta.
CP3 is a significantly better fit with Booker and KD than Kyrie would be.
I could see CP3 fall off a cliff real soon, but if he has another year or two then he’s the perfect PG to play with those two lethal scorers.
That said it doesnt sound like we are in on that so it prolly doesnt matter, ha.
That said it doesnt sound like we are in on that so it prolly doesnt matter, ha.
meant to say he has been in the league awhile, but has taken a big step the last couple years.
That said it doesnt sound like we are in on that so it prolly doesnt matter, ha.
I agree I think Murray is a little better given what we know right now but I can see why Knicks brass would rather Brunson at $25M per + all their firsts vs Murray at $40M per while giving up 3-4 1sts and a few pick swaps
Apparently that's part of the rationale for the trade, he's eligible for a max extension next summer which I'm sure any acquiring team is going to give him rather than have him hit FA although you never know in the nba
I bet he realized he's not getting paid anywhere else and will wait to hit the market next year
Wonder if Durant thinks he is wasting another year in Brooklyn?
I bet KD sticks around now too. Or doesn't. Let's see what side of the bed he wakes up on tomorrow.
Brunson played 1691 minutes on the court with Luka last year, and 1463 minutes without Luka on the court. Here are Brunson's per75 Possession stats with and without Luka on the court last year (including RS + Playoffs). Why per75 possessions? It's a more natural looking comparison to a player who plays about 36ish minutes per game, rather than the per100 possession stats which are hard to put into context.
w/ Luka --- 16.6 PTS/75 -- 3.7 AST/75 -- 1.3 TO/75 -- .556 eFG% -- .407 3P% -- .590 TS%
w/o Luka -- 24.9 PTS/75 -- 7.4 AST/75 -- 2.3 TO/75 -- .527 eFG% -- .323 3P% -- .566 TS%
Pretty damn solid numbers for Brunson when Luka is off the court. He picks up the scoring volume bigtime and does a fantastic job of limiting turnovers. His scoring efficiency does drop from above-average to literally league average, because he doesn't get those wide open catch-n-shoot 3s he gets with Luka on the floor. 41% from 3 with Luka to 32% from 3 without Luka. When Luka's on the floor, 91% of Brunson's made 3s are assisted. When Luka is off the floor and Brunson has the ball in his hands more, 64% of his made 3s are assisted.
But overall, those are some pretty solid numbers for Brunson without Luka on the court. Not sure if transitioning from a role player in Dallas around Luka to one of "the main guys" in NY will have an intangible effect on him, but he certainly has some real potential as an offensive player if he gets more consistent with his off-the dribble 3pt shot. His FT% and catch-n-shoot 3P% suggest he's a pretty good shooter with potential.
Brunson played 1691 minutes on the court with Luka last year, and 1463 minutes without Luka on the court. Here are Brunson's per75 Possession stats with and without Luka on the court last year (including RS + Playoffs). Why per75 possessions? It's a more natural looking comparison to a player who plays about 36ish minutes per game, rather than the per100 possession stats which are hard to put into context.
w/ Luka --- 16.6 PTS/75 -- 3.7 AST/75 -- 1.3 TO/75 -- .556 eFG% -- .407 3P% -- .590 TS%
w/o Luka -- 24.9 PTS/75 -- 7.4 AST/75 -- 2.3 TO/75 -- .527 eFG% -- .323 3P% -- .566 TS%
Pretty damn solid numbers for Brunson when Luka is off the court. He picks up the scoring volume bigtime and does a fantastic job of limiting turnovers. His scoring efficiency does drop from above-average to literally league average, because he doesn't get those wide open catch-n-shoot 3s he gets with Luka on the floor. 41% from 3 with Luka to 32% from 3 without Luka. When Luka's on the floor, 91% of Brunson's made 3s are assisted. When Luka is off the floor and Brunson has the ball in his hands more, 64% of his made 3s are assisted.
But overall, those are some pretty solid numbers for Brunson without Luka on the court. Not sure if transitioning from a role player in Dallas around Luka to one of "the main guys" in NY will have an intangible effect on him, but he certainly has some real potential as an offensive player if he gets more consistent with his off-the dribble 3pt shot. His FT% and catch-n-shoot 3P% suggest he's a pretty good shooter with potential.
These are great numbers but will the Knicks use him the same way Dallas has when Luka is out.
The offense is gear to run through Luka and Brunson basically used in the Luka role in his absence.
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A lot of underrating of Brunson on here
Pretty sure most of the people commenting on him and underrating him are just looking at stats and have never actually watched him play.
Pretty sure people that are overrating him are looking at his stats and just don't understand that you can't just pluck numbers in with all players and assume that will lead to a good number of wins.