What the Knicks did last night:
NYK trades 11th pick to OKC
OKC trades 3 firsts (23 DEN, DET, WASH) to NYK
NYK then trades 23 DEN, 4 seconds to CHA for 13th pick
NYK then trade 13th pick & Kemba Walker to DET for MKE's 25 first
NYK trades 11, Kemba, 4 2nds & gets 3 future 1sts
Pick Protections:
'25 MKE Protected 1-4
'23 DET Protected 1-18 => '24 Protected 1-18 => '25 Protected 1-13 => '26 Protected 1-11 => '27 Protected 1-9 or Second Rounder
'23 WAS Protected 1-14 => '24 Protected 1-12 => '25 Protected 1-10 => '26 Protected 1-8 => '27 Second Round Pick
Second Round
Knicks select (F)Trevor Keels, Duke at #42.
He therefore gave two year deals to vets whom he had just the year before signed on cheap one-year deals.
As many predicted, this turned out to be a mistake. So, what a good organization does is accept that they made a mistake and have to wait out the two years. But not the Knicks. They are willing to trade draft assets to have other teams take their mistakes so they can go out and make further mistakes by signing a guy who is no more a sure thing than the Burks/Nerl/Gibson/Rose quartet.
The logic seems to be: it did not work signing 4 veteran guys for 80 million so let's go sign one supposedly rising guy for 100+ million.
In other words, they are doing the exact opposite of what they did last year, as one mistake leads to and informs the next mistake.
No good organizations realize a midtake and move off of it and with their trades on draft night they gained draft capital not lost..
You act like signing Brunson means thats it Knicks cant add anymore and the team is at a ceiling...and 25 million for a starting PG is nothing..
Donovan Mitchell is a pipe dream as the Knicks will never be able to make a deal with Danny Ainge
Zion - He will sign the rookie max extension
KAT - Seems like Minnesota has a good future
SGA - He is not a #1 guy in my mind
Sign Brunson..
Trade Randle and Fournier for Kyrie hahahaha
@TheNBACentral
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39s
The belief among both league and player circles is that Kyrie Irving is GONE, per @Krisplashed
The Nets believe Kyrie Irving is not committed to doing what it takes to be on the floor every game for his teammates
Donovan Mitchell is a pipe dream as the Knicks will never be able to make a deal with Danny Ainge
Zion - He will sign the rookie max extension
KAT - Seems like Minnesota has a good future
SGA - He is not a #1 guy in my mind
Its silly to even mention championship now. They should take the following steps:
1 sign Brunson
2 the presence of Brunson serves to take the ball out of Randle's hands
3 the prior two bullet points are necessary to help all the kids develop (Randle hijacking the offense blocks that development)
4 this in turn results in a better league opinion of NYK roster by NBA teams and thus starts to open up trade possibilities
People are claiming he's eying Phoenix and Portland
He's probably gonna go ham in the Summer league and we can get excited about him again.
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That's a shame.
People are claiming he's eying Phoenix and Portland
Portland i could see, Simons signa dn trade, daniels and multiple picks for Durant
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ranked Keels #30 on his board, the write-up wasn't amazing but that's still like landing a late 1st
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Keels is built like a tank, had a reasonably good freshman year that included a high steal rate, and his biggest weakness (shooting) is the one thing that is most fixable at the NBA level. He made 31.2 percent from 3 and 69.3 percent from the line, but I wouldn’t say his shot is broken. However, he isn’t a natural distributor either; his assist-turnover ratio from his freshman season reflects that he spent some time at the point, but once he heads to the cup he’s thinking shot. Keels also isn’t a great leaper, relying a little too much on beastball around the basket, and one wonders how that will translate as a pro.
Keels is getting some love for his defense in other descriptions I’ve seen, and I’ve gotta say … I must have been out of town for those games. Keels has a strong body, but I’m not sure he can stay in front of anyone at the next level. He didn’t really get into the ball but still gave up a ton of straight-line drives and wasn’t great at contesting shots at the end of the play either.
That said, let’s not get lost in the weeds here. He doesn’t turn 19 until August and turned in a very solid season as a starter in the ACC. He has a chance, especially if the shooting improves. Also, the Ethan Strauss Memorial Fat Is Potential In Disguise (FIPID) factor comes into play here, as Keels measured with 13.5 percent body fat at the combine.
NY Post article on Keels. Link - ( New Window )
He's a just role player assuming he can fix his shooting.
Release the hounds. Meaning move heaven and earth to get Durant to relocate by about 5 miles, give or take.
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That's a shame.
Release the hounds. Meaning move heaven and earth to get Durant to relocate by about 5 miles, give or take.
zero chance they trade durant to the knicks
Memphis should trade for KD.
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Keels is built like a tank, had a reasonably good freshman year that included a high steal rate, and his biggest weakness (shooting) is the one thing that is most fixable at the NBA level. He made 31.2 percent from 3 and 69.3 percent from the line, but I wouldn’t say his shot is broken. However, he isn’t a natural distributor either; his assist-turnover ratio from his freshman season reflects that he spent some time at the point, but once he heads to the cup he’s thinking shot. Keels also isn’t a great leaper, relying a little too much on beastball around the basket, and one wonders how that will translate as a pro.
Keels is getting some love for his defense in other descriptions I’ve seen, and I’ve gotta say … I must have been out of town for those games. Keels has a strong body, but I’m not sure he can stay in front of anyone at the next level. He didn’t really get into the ball but still gave up a ton of straight-line drives and wasn’t great at contesting shots at the end of the play either.
That said, let’s not get lost in the weeds here. He doesn’t turn 19 until August and turned in a very solid season as a starter in the ACC. He has a chance, especially if the shooting improves. Also, the Ethan Strauss Memorial Fat Is Potential In Disguise (FIPID) factor comes into play here, as Keels measured with 13.5 percent body fat at the combine.
Interesting to see if he can turn himself into something. He is super raw and has a long way to go to be an NBA player IMO. I guess they are betting on a pretty good ceiling but if he plays anywhere but Westchester in his career, I'll be pleasantly surprised.
I think so in that a real PG would make everyone better because everyone's a better offensive player.
But you can't rule out Thibs being Thibs and forcing the offense to run through Point-Randle.
No if anything Randle will drag Brunson down. Randle is a ISO player that does not push pace.
One of the biggest reason Rose doesn't play with the first unit. Randle wants the ball in his hand and control pace when they give the ball to RJ to run the offense through him Randle played worse. Unless Randle comes in an understands his role and accepts it I don't see how it works.
To be fair any culture the Nets had was gone when the signed Durant & Irving. Only got worse once Atkinson was fired.
Also, just about every Knick fan was hoping to sign Durant & Irving in 2019 as well.
@wojespn
ESPN Sources: Outside of the Lakers, there are currently no known teams planning pursuit of sign-and-trades for Nets G Kyrie Irving. No sign-and-trades can be formally discussed until after 6 PM on Thursday. Brooklyn isn't believed to have interest in available Lakers packages.
🤡🤡🤡.
@JakeLFischer
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1m
Sources with knowledge of the situation have increasingly believed Kyrie Irving's willingness to opt out of Brooklyn, sign the $6M taxpayer midlevel with the Lakers, where Irving can re-sign long-term in 2023.
@JakeLFischer
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1m
Sources with knowledge of the situation have increasingly believed Kyrie Irving's willingness to opt out of Brooklyn, sign the $6M taxpayer midlevel with the Lakers, where Irving can re-sign long-term in 2023.
I could see that happening. I want no part of Kyrie
On another note, Is Mitchell worth all the assets that it would take to land him or are you better off going after someone like LaVine or Beal? Not saying the Knicks have a chance at any of the three anyway
Link - ( New Window )
Some of the same reasons I feel the Knicks are making a mistake going in big on Brunson.
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Would Brunson on the floor make Randle a better player?
No if anything Randle will drag Brunson down. Randle is a ISO player that does not push pace.
One of the biggest reason Rose doesn't play with the first unit. Randle wants the ball in his hand and control pace when they give the ball to RJ to run the offense through him Randle played worse. Unless Randle comes in an understands his role and accepts it I don't see how it works.
I'm down on Randle and want him traded but I disagree with this, TBH. Brunson has a ton of experience playing off the ball and is nearly a 40% catch and shoot 3pt guy who is really smart about finding himself open for the ball handler so when Randle has the ball, he's the perfect guy to help with spacing. Randle had a nice two man game with Bullock, and I envision a better version of this where Brunson can hurt the defense when they are too aggressive off the closeout, which Bullock could never do.
A guy like Brunson can get Randle the ball where he wants it in the half court and punish the defense if they rotate toward Randle early because he's a really smart cutter, too. He's a talented ISO guy as well that can help late in games when Randle was asked to carry the entire load most nights (which he did really well two years ago and not well at all last year).
Brunson doesn't salvage Randle's contract, mainly because of the terrible season JR had last year making that contract look bad and because Randle is blocking Obi, who needs to play. But Brunson, at least offensively, fits as well as anyone with Randle, IMO.
Not groundbreaking but I hear the Nets are a complete shit show right now.
Zero shot Durant is ever traded to the Knicks.
@JakeLFischer
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1m
Sources with knowledge of the situation have increasingly believed Kyrie Irving's willingness to opt out of Brooklyn, sign the $6M taxpayer midlevel with the Lakers, where Irving can re-sign long-term in 2023.
that's a huge risk on Irving's part. The Lakers would not have his bird rights.
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blog on the Brunson "decision" Link - ( New Window )
Some of the same reasons I feel the Knicks are making a mistake going in big on Brunson.
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The Mavericks overpay for an undersized guard without elite athleticism that will likely never make an All-Star game. I love Brunson and appreciate the hard work he put in to maximize his talent. At the same time, I’d be lying if I said he was a top 40 player. In fact, he may not be top 50.
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A non-All-Star level player making $28 million dollars a year is not a trade asset. While any contract can theoretically be moved that doesn’t mean it can be moved for value. Kevin Hurter, Duncan Robinson, Terry Rozier, and our very own Tim Hardaway Jr. should be examples of what happens when you pay non-stars star-level money. All four players are useful and can help you win games. Their contracts, however, make them nearly impossible to move for value.
Just read the article/blog and agree on the above. I like Brunson and think he'd help here, what does this do to move the needle? Maybe they are a .500 team? that is like the worst place to be in the NBA.
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In comment 15742011 DanMetroMan said:
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blog on the Brunson "decision" Link - ( New Window )
Some of the same reasons I feel the Knicks are making a mistake going in big on Brunson.
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The Mavericks overpay for an undersized guard without elite athleticism that will likely never make an All-Star game. I love Brunson and appreciate the hard work he put in to maximize his talent. At the same time, I’d be lying if I said he was a top 40 player. In fact, he may not be top 50.
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A non-All-Star level player making $28 million dollars a year is not a trade asset. While any contract can theoretically be moved that doesn’t mean it can be moved for value. Kevin Hurter, Duncan Robinson, Terry Rozier, and our very own Tim Hardaway Jr. should be examples of what happens when you pay non-stars star-level money. All four players are useful and can help you win games. Their contracts, however, make them nearly impossible to move for value.
Just read the article/blog and agree on the above. I like Brunson and think he'd help here, what does this do to move the needle? Maybe they are a .500 team? that is like the worst place to be in the NBA.
He moves the needle in allowing the team to exit perennial loser mode and into a team that plays like Memphis sans Ja (a smart, competitive atmosphere conducive to allowing our bevy of young players to develop).
In short, we desperately need a lead guard.
This notion of thinking we're otherwise getting Lebron in his prime needs to be set aside.
If you import a player from another team, you are going to pay a lot.
If we set the number at 26m, that would place Brunson 47th in the NBA in cap hit, or 16th among Point Guards. .
Is the argument that you don't like the idea of paying a player you don't know well 26million, or that you know Jalen Brunson isn't even middle of the pack among Point Guards?
If he does it again id be surprised, they have no picks, no cap space and the chances of them getting 2 generational players on the nets again are slim..
It took a lot of luck for them last time, remember he signed Allen Crabbe and tyler Johnson to big deals that got matched..
If you import a player from another team, you are going to pay a lot.
If we set the number at 26m, that would place Brunson 47th in the NBA in cap hit, or 16th among Point Guards. .
Is the argument that you don't like the idea of paying a player you don't know well 26million, or that you know Jalen Brunson isn't even middle of the pack among Point Guards?
You are making a 6'1 PG with limited upside the highest paid player on this team that will never be an all-star or more than a 3rd option on a championship team.
This contract will not be easy to move or live up to in the future.
Better off running with Quickley next year as he has more upside than Brunson does long term and will not require that commitment.
This deal will look horrible in 2 years IMO.
Save the thread.
Fuck 'em.
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on trying to attach hard rules on free agent contracts.
If you import a player from another team, you are going to pay a lot.
If we set the number at 26m, that would place Brunson 47th in the NBA in cap hit, or 16th among Point Guards. .
Is the argument that you don't like the idea of paying a player you don't know well 26million, or that you know Jalen Brunson isn't even middle of the pack among Point Guards?
You are making a 6'1 PG with limited upside the highest paid player on this team that will never be an all-star or more than a 3rd option on a championship team.
This contract will not be easy to move or live up to in the future.
Better off running with Quickley next year as he has more upside than Brunson does long term and will not require that commitment.
This deal will look horrible in 2 years IMO.
Save the thread.
Why do people keep mentioning CHAMPIONSHIP TEAM?
The Knicks need to find an sustainable environment where they are no longer a laughing stock, where their young players can thrive without watching a guy like Julius Randle piss away their development years and any hope of a decent record.
Once we gain some momentum and I view Brunson as a conduit to that, then things start to open up a bit. In other words, if a disgruntled star wants out, the Knicks may have a roster of players that are viewed as attractive pieces.
But this, CHAMPIONSHIP notion. Please realize that no star is walking through the door any time soon.
KD's market will be interesting. His list of teams (if he even provides more than just a single destination) will dictate the market but I wonder if the Nets are going to try to just get a bunch of picks or shoot for a young player who could be a star like a Scottie Barnes for example. I doubt Toronto would do that but that was the first name that popped into my head.