What the Knicks did last night:
NYK trades 11th pick to OKC
OKC trades 3 firsts (23 DEN, DET, WASH) to NYK
NYK then trades 23 DEN, 4 seconds to CHA for 13th pick
NYK then trade 13th pick & Kemba Walker to DET for MKE's 25 first
NYK trades 11, Kemba, 4 2nds & gets 3 future 1sts
Pick Protections:
'25 MKE Protected 1-4
'23 DET Protected 1-18 => '24 Protected 1-18 => '25 Protected 1-13 => '26 Protected 1-11 => '27 Protected 1-9 or Second Rounder
'23 WAS Protected 1-14 => '24 Protected 1-12 => '25 Protected 1-10 => '26 Protected 1-8 => '27 Second Round Pick
Second Round
Knicks select (F)Trevor Keels, Duke at #42.
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and the Knicks win 45 games and him, Rj, Iq, Obi have good years, someone is going to want tk join them next summer..
The big thing this summer is you have to clear out the vets as much as you can, Adding Brunson Fournier can not be the 2, you want a guy like Grimes at the 2 so you have a good 3 and d wing next to Brunson..
The bench is way to crowded..
Great point. This has always been the issue with the Knicks - can’t go from zero to ten. Need to build a roster that can win in the mid 40’s and then add from there. That is what will entice a star.
My issue though is Rose. Why does he get credit for clearing Kemba when he brought him in just a year ago? Don’t have much faith in Rose to execute, but need to start somewhere.
This is not something new, you look around the league it happens every year, when a guy is signed the first thing people say is welp this giy will be traded in 2 weeks...
I would rsther a GM who recognizes mistakes and gets rid of them rather than double down, of course i wish the gm didnt make mistakes but that never happens
Thibs better adapt or he is going to be fired, he doesnt have a choice
I guess we'll see soon enough.
Does Brunson alone make them a title contender? No, but does he make them better? Absolutely. Think back to the impact Derrick Rose had on this team two years ago, that’s what they will be getting in Brunson. He’s a guy that can play downhill, get to the rim, score efficiently inside the arc, and create pressure on the defense that creates opportunities for the other guys on the court. Another huge plus with Brunson is that he is used to playing with Luka, so while the ball will be in his hands a lot of the time, he also will be comfortable letting RJ/Randle (though hopefully he won’t be around) do their thing for stretches.
To ny16s point, adding Brunson brings this team into the 45 win conversation, and a young team focused around him, RJ, Toppin, and Quickley is going to be appealing to a star looking for a new home.
I guess we'll see soon enough.
According to stein, Being the main PG and madison square garden the big stage is appealing to hin
Yeah Stein's mailbag is pretty good, good info and he doesnt BS
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But if I'm him, do I leave Dallas? The Mavs can offer him more coin & he has a better chance of winning there than he does here, at least in the current moment. I get the familial connection & perhaps he wants to be 'The Man', which he'll never be in Dallas as long as Luka is there.
I guess we'll see soon enough.
According to stein, Being the main PG and madison square garden the big stage is appealing to hin
There has also been reports over the past couple of seasons that players get very frustrated playing with Luka. He’s fantastic, no doubt. But if you’re a player like Brunson that considers himself a PG I can see why Lukas extreme ball dominance would be a turnoff
The Trade Deadline
@_TradeDeadline
"Despite moving their first-round pick in the Christian Wood deal, the Mavs are believed to want back into the late first round or early second round, from what I’m told, if it can land them Trevor Keels out of Duke." (via
@talkhoops
)
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We will know soon enough.
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Does Brunson alone make them a title contender? No, but does he make them better? Absolutely. Think back to the impact Derrick Rose had on this team two years ago, that’s what they will be getting in Brunson.
Basically my take.
They need an available PG who can emulate Rose's 2020 season. If it's Brunson, he's that guy right now, and he has pretty significant upside being young.
If you're going pay a free agent, pay a guy with room to grow, don't pay a guy for past all star games.
If Randle continues to be a high usage low efficiency player that Thibs leans on to run ISOs constantly, we're going to have a lot of the same complaints. He needs to be more creative and dynamic with the offensive playcalling and substitution pattern.
I like Thibs, he's a good coach but he's weirdly stubborn about certain things. His rotations are pretty robotic, which is why I was almost hoping that the roster did have some turnover.
In doing so, it seemed like they did pretty good, getting three ones in return, instead of forcing a pick in a draft they clearly didn’t like.
Teams biggest hole is clearly a PG, but draft is over. So why not try to clear some dead weight for cap room, to keep the hope alive of getting a good guard in Brunson? He’s young, his numbers from last year would make him one of their best OGs of the last 30 years lol. He’s got more upside than downside, since he never was the lead guard for a full season.
More importantly, it takes Randle out of being the primary ball handler. Remember, Randle was by far his best with Rose than without him. Maybe they can salvage him. Plus Barret still rising. Then the young kids from last years draft plus IQ and Obi.
Call me crazy, but I’m OK with this. Lots of picks for trades or inexpensive bench pieces the next few years. A coup,e of decent sized contracts expiring they can fill in for trades. A bunch of young pieces they can use to trade for a very good player or disgruntled star player.
I don’t hate this at all. I actually like it. They did they hard thing, and pissed off fans that wanted something immediate. Everyone got their hopes up for Ivey, and anything less would disappoint. Not only did they swing and miss, they punted. But IMO, they punted and got the ball back in better field position fingers crossed
I still think the Knicks should have moved on from his this spring, but that ain't happening so it is what it is.
In doing so, it seemed like they did pretty good, getting three ones in return, instead of forcing a pick in a draft they clearly didn’t like.
Teams biggest hole is clearly a PG, but draft is over. So why not try to clear some dead weight for cap room, to keep the hope alive of getting a good guard in Brunson? He’s young, his numbers from last year would make him one of their best OGs of the last 30 years lol. He’s got more upside than downside, since he never was the lead guard for a full season.
More importantly, it takes Randle out of being the primary ball handler. Remember, Randle was by far his best with Rose than without him. Maybe they can salvage him. Plus Barret still rising. Then the young kids from last years draft plus IQ and Obi.
Call me crazy, but I’m OK with this. Lots of picks for trades or inexpensive bench pieces the next few years. A coup,e of decent sized contracts expiring they can fill in for trades. A bunch of young pieces they can use to trade for a very good player or disgruntled star player.
I don’t hate this at all. I actually like it. They did they hard thing, and pissed off fans that wanted something immediate. Everyone got their hopes up for Ivey, and anything less would disappoint. Not only did they swing and miss, they punted. But IMO, they punted and got the ball back in better field position fingers crossed
+1
For over 20 years this team has operated under the “Do Something!” philosophy. Just do something, ANYTHING to make the team better. And look what’s it gotten us.
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Forget about quick fix with high priced FA's. There is no one that can turn team around and the secondary good FA's like Irving or Brunson are just a waste of capital until Knicks can get a supreme superstar.
This is ridiculous. So the Knicks shouldn’t continue to try to make the team better until they land a “supreme superstar”? Wtf? Who is that going to be exactly? And why would this supreme superstar willingly go to the Knicks if there are no other pieces around them? The Knicks need to add pieces to make this an attractive destination for “supreme superstars”.
It’s absolutely amazing how many years of your lives you’re willing to just throw down the toilet while we wait for supreme superstars to come here. Just be patient. By the time we are all 95 years old, maybe that player will have arrived. But I doubt it
1--- What is your definition of "Making the team better?"
2--- When you say "no other players around them"- With the draft picks they have and the youth they have - you mean no one will get better? Not one or only two current players on the roster will get better than last year?
3--- And to further that, so when the Knicks get those draft picks, when you say "no other players around them," then you're suggesting not even the draft picks will be any good?
2-3-- In regards to 2 and 3 above can' we say that your comment that "no other players around them" is an extreme exaggeration?
4a-- It's absolutely amazing how many years you've seen Dolan get that 2nd tier superstar only to watch the team tread in mediocrity or worse, and yet you learn nothing from it. Your method probably ensures another 95 years of what we have had to deal with. Will you ever learn? I doubt it.
4b-- When you speak of ridiculous. Doing the exact same thing Dolan has done for years not getting the elite superstar player and trading draft picks while we watch the team do shit for so many years, - to do the same thing over and over is the definition of ridiculous.
5--- And when you make the comment about the superstar, inferring if he'll want to come or not because of the current talent, you think he would be too stupid to figure out that the knicks are going to have a ton of cap space in the near future in which he could also coax a player he actually wants to play with to come to New York?
6---- When you speak of being "95 years old" a reference that we as Knicks fans will have to wait forever, it's your philosophy (the Dolan one) that has been holding this team back as long as the days of Alcindor/Jabbar in which the Knicks chose to pass on him for Bob McAdoo and we also teamed him up with Spencer Haywood (note the similarity of Melo/Amare).
7--- When are you going to learn and also when are you going to stop the extreme exaggerations in which this philosophy has plagued our Knicks for many years?
He's wrong about Brunson. Here's why--
Brunson isn't going to turn you into a title contender at any point until you get a true superstar. If you get him, all you are doing is throwing more money at mediocrity without a plan to be a contender. He is telling you that Brunson is not an all-star yet what logic is there then to pay him an enormous contract?
Apparently he is okay with no real plan to get out of not being contender, but instead just being better. Hasn't that been the same Dolan way of doing things? Unless you know he is going to attract a super player-- no thanks. Hard pass.
Teams biggest hole is clearly a PG, but draft is over. So why not try to clear some dead weight for cap room, to keep the hope alive of getting a good guard in Brunson? He’s young, his numbers from last year would make him one of their best OGs of the last 30 years lol. He’s got more upside than downside, since he never was the lead guard for a full season.
Just please stop it with the comment about "the past 30 years."
Some of you are just out of your minds. To suggest the comment you made above has any relevance -- are you kidding???????????
Why not just reference the time of day in which his numbers are better then just go ahead and compare him to Lebron and Jordan during those times?
Just think last year how many here wanted Lillard.
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B
Teams biggest hole is clearly a PG, but draft is over. So why not try to clear some dead weight for cap room, to keep the hope alive of getting a good guard in Brunson? He’s young, his numbers from last year would make him one of their best OGs of the last 30 years lol. He’s got more upside than downside, since he never was the lead guard for a full season.
Just please stop it with the comment about "the past 30 years."
Some of you are just out of your minds. To suggest the comment you made above has any relevance -- are you kidding???????????
Why not just reference the time of day in which his numbers are better then just go ahead and compare him to Lebron and Jordan during those times?
Just think last year how many here wanted Lillard.
Ummm Okayyyyy
Do you need a hug? If you do, I’m here for you man…
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In comment 15741095 Shecky said:
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B
Teams biggest hole is clearly a PG, but draft is over. So why not try to clear some dead weight for cap room, to keep the hope alive of getting a good guard in Brunson? He’s young, his numbers from last year would make him one of their best OGs of the last 30 years lol. He’s got more upside than downside, since he never was the lead guard for a full season.
Just please stop it with the comment about "the past 30 years."
Some of you are just out of your minds. To suggest the comment you made above has any relevance -- are you kidding???????????
Why not just reference the time of day in which his numbers are better then just go ahead and compare him to Lebron and Jordan during those times?
Just think last year how many here wanted Lillard.
Ummm Okayyyyy
Do you need a hug? If you do, I’m here for you man…
huh??????
Are you off your meds again?
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with how I feel. I know he’s known as the giants.com guy but he’s a big Knicks fan and I’ve always found him to be very insightful about the team. Link - ( New Window )
He's wrong about Brunson. Here's why--
Brunson isn't going to turn you into a title contender at any point until you get a true superstar. If you get him, all you are doing is throwing more money at mediocrity without a plan to be a contender. He is telling you that Brunson is not an all-star yet what logic is there then to pay him an enormous contract?
Apparently he is okay with no real plan to get out of not being contender, but instead just being better. Hasn't that been the same Dolan way of doing things? Unless you know he is going to attract a super player-- no thanks. Hard pass.
The Dolan way of doing things is to sit on your hands and wait for the next superstar. I’m not sure how you don’t see that after the past 20 years. It’s gotten us nowhere because no star wants to come to a team in the world’s biggest market bereft of any sort of supporting cast. You can’t manifest a superstar out of thin air just because that’s what you want. There are two paths - what the Knicks are doing now and bottoming out and hoping and praying for ping pong balls in the correct draft class.
How on earth are the Nets not offering Kyrie the max right now? A few years after their big coup and the Knicks embarrassment and they're going to risk becoming the league's laughingstock? To what end?
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In comment 15741106 Strahan91 said:
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with how I feel. I know he’s known as the giants.com guy but he’s a big Knicks fan and I’ve always found him to be very insightful about the team. Link - ( New Window )
He's wrong about Brunson. Here's why--
Brunson isn't going to turn you into a title contender at any point until you get a true superstar. If you get him, all you are doing is throwing more money at mediocrity without a plan to be a contender. He is telling you that Brunson is not an all-star yet what logic is there then to pay him an enormous contract?
Apparently he is okay with no real plan to get out of not being contender, but instead just being better. Hasn't that been the same Dolan way of doing things? Unless you know he is going to attract a super player-- no thanks. Hard pass.
The Dolan way of doing things is to sit on your hands and wait for the next superstar. I’m not sure how you don’t see that after the past 20 years. It’s gotten us nowhere because no star wants to come to a team in the world’s biggest market bereft of any sort of supporting cast. You can’t manifest a superstar out of thin air just because that’s what you want. There are two paths - what the Knicks are doing now and bottoming out and hoping and praying for ping pong balls in the correct draft class.
I always thought the ranking with Dolson were looney (and with Faris). But with Dolson I can specifically remember some ranking service saying Dolson is the best center in the class. And either I watched a game of hers or highlights - or just the comments - showing/saying she is good in the low post, has a mid-range game (I'm almost positive I saw her shooting), and is a very good passer. And I thought "How the hell can she only be 39 with that size and skill?
You just know sometimes- the heck with the rankings. And rankings ofc can be extremely volatile as Nan pointed out and BobbyJ says - so what - if you like a player Geno isn't going by rankings.
I’m excited - her athleticism seems tremendous if what I am reading is correct -and that hasn't been UCONN's strong suit recently. Now after this year - looking forward - unsure about Griffin but Patterson and Samuels are two amazing athletes. They fit in well with ultra-skill from the guard spots with Azzi and Ducharme even without getting into Arnold and Shade.
Also her committing in which she is a 35 rank recruit – she must think that is nonsense. Along with she knows who her teammates will be in terms of competition and is still committing this early. She’s gotta be bleeding Husky Blue!!! And that is a tremendous sign!!!! Did I say I am excited with her potential? I am.
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Your assessment as to what needs to be done is backwards. You are right the Knicks could be a very attractive place. But in order to attract "Durant" you need enough cap space to also get "Irving." I can't understand how you don’t see this.
You don’t need to draft the top player- just good enough players where you would trade a bunch of them and have a few left over to support the superstar.
Again—I said this on this thread or the other—nothing personal – but your impatience leads to moves like signing Randle long-term or you or others pushing for Lillard last year. And now you are doing it again with Brunson.
I get it in a vacuum but they own none of their picks moving forward and their only means to staying out of the gutter would be... Ben Simmons. It's biting their nose off to spite their face imo
In doing so, it seemed like they did pretty good, getting three ones in return, instead of forcing a pick in a draft they clearly didn’t like.
Teams biggest hole is clearly a PG, but draft is over. So why not try to clear some dead weight for cap room, to keep the hope alive of getting a good guard in Brunson? He’s young, his numbers from last year would make him one of their best OGs of the last 30 years lol. He’s got more upside than downside, since he never was the lead guard for a full season.
More importantly, it takes Randle out of being the primary ball handler. Remember, Randle was by far his best with Rose than without him. Maybe they can salvage him. Plus Barret still rising. Then the young kids from last years draft plus IQ and Obi.
Call me crazy, but I’m OK with this. Lots of picks for trades or inexpensive bench pieces the next few years. A coup,e of decent sized contracts expiring they can fill in for trades. A bunch of young pieces they can use to trade for a very good player or disgruntled star player.
I don’t hate this at all. I actually like it. They did they hard thing, and pissed off fans that wanted something immediate. Everyone got their hopes up for Ivey, and anything less would disappoint. Not only did they swing and miss, they punted. But IMO, they punted and got the ball back in better field position fingers crossed
I think they were trying to clear cap space by not having a first round pick. I don't think that it is they did not like any of the players at 11. They wanted that ten million that a pick that low would eat up.
Seems like they are set on Brunson. Big mistake imo. He is going to be a lot less effective when he does not have Doncic drawing double teams.
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But it seems clear they were Ivey or bust. When the Knicks couldn’t get him, they didn’t like anyone at 11. If that’s the case, why not move out of the draft?
In doing so, it seemed like they did pretty good, getting three ones in return, instead of forcing a pick in a draft they clearly didn’t like.
Teams biggest hole is clearly a PG, but draft is over. So why not try to clear some dead weight for cap room, to keep the hope alive of getting a good guard in Brunson? He’s young, his numbers from last year would make him one of their best OGs of the last 30 years lol. He’s got more upside than downside, since he never was the lead guard for a full season.
More importantly, it takes Randle out of being the primary ball handler. Remember, Randle was by far his best with Rose than without him. Maybe they can salvage him. Plus Barret still rising. Then the young kids from last years draft plus IQ and Obi.
Call me crazy, but I’m OK with this. Lots of picks for trades or inexpensive bench pieces the next few years. A coup,e of decent sized contracts expiring they can fill in for trades. A bunch of young pieces they can use to trade for a very good player or disgruntled star player.
I don’t hate this at all. I actually like it. They did they hard thing, and pissed off fans that wanted something immediate. Everyone got their hopes up for Ivey, and anything less would disappoint. Not only did they swing and miss, they punted. But IMO, they punted and got the ball back in better field position fingers crossed
I think they were trying to clear cap space by not having a first round pick. I don't think that it is they did not like any of the players at 11. They wanted that ten million that a pick that low would eat up.
Seems like they are set on Brunson. Big mistake imo. He is going to be a lot less effective when he does not have Doncic drawing double teams.
Which his numbers say the complete opposite
You can't look at 15 games that Doncic missed in a season and say Brunson did not benefit from Doncic.
When a guy like Doncic goes down other guys have to pick up the slack and score more points so obviously their numbers are going to go up temporarily.
Looking at Brunson's numbers without Doncic is about meaningless as you can get. And what was Dallas record in games Doncic missed??
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that. The sample size of Brunson playing without Luka is plenty to draw insight from and it’s quite good. The Mavs without Luka (and actually THJ for most of those games) are a weaker supporting cast than what the Knicks will have around him. It’s not particularly close either
You can't look at 15 games that Doncic missed in a season and say Brunson did not benefit from Doncic.
When a guy like Doncic goes down other guys have to pick up the slack and score more points so obviously their numbers are going to go up temporarily.
Looking at Brunson's numbers without Doncic is about meaningless as you can get. And what was Dallas record in games Doncic missed??
Wait, looking at his numbers without Doncic doesnt show what he can did without Doncic? How does that make sense?
And the team outside of Doncic and Brunson is awful, Dinwiddie is ok, Hardaway Jr was hurt for most of the year, Finney smith is a defender...
The Mavs will be highly motivated to sign Brunson, even if it requires an overpay, because their cap situation makes it impossible to replace him.
But, once they have him signed, it is very possible, even likely, that the Mavs would look for the opportunity to ship out Brunson's contract in favor of a true star to match with Doncic.
And Brunson knows this. Signing with Dallas will lock in his money but doesn't mean certainty for his future.
The Mavs will be highly motivated to sign Brunson, even if it requires an overpay, because their cap situation makes it impossible to replace him.
But, once they have him signed, it is very possible, even likely, that the Mavs would look for the opportunity to ship out Brunson's contract in favor of a true star to match with Doncic.
And Brunson knows this. Signing with Dallas will lock in his money but doesn't mean certainty for his future.
There is a rumor/thought going around the NBA that good players do not like playing next Dkncic because he controls the ball so much
.Shooters, defenders and lob threats love playing with him but if you are a guy who is a scorer you are not going to enjoy playing with him..
I also think being the PG is a big factor for Brunson, he knows playing with Doncic there is a cap on how high his slceiling is, it grows if he goes somewhere he is the main PG
This is the best case scenario for the Knicks. And Randle is from Dallas and I’m sure he’d welcome the trade there. But I don’t see how that would intrigue Dallas at all
The Mavs will be highly motivated to sign Brunson, even if it requires an overpay, because their cap situation makes it impossible to replace him.
But, once they have him signed, it is very possible, even likely, that the Mavs would look for the opportunity to ship out Brunson's contract in favor of a true star to match with Doncic.
And Brunson knows this. Signing with Dallas will lock in his money but doesn't mean certainty for his future.
Sounds like Mavs fans just trying to be optimistic. The biggest criticism against this front office for the last two years has been that they’ve played it too conservative, haven’t taken a risk, and keep kicking the can down the road. Giving up assets to get off of Kemba’s contract, while only a small one, is taking a risk that this front office hasn’t shown a willingness to do in the past.
With the ties between Rose and CAA (who represent Brunson), the ties between Rose and the Brunson family, and the fact that Rick Brunson himself is a part of the staff, tells me that the reason they chose now to take a “risk” is because they already know it isn’t a risk and are certain of Jalen’s intent.
Show me what you're looking at though.
He scored more? If he scored more because he shot more, that doesn't really matter if his percentages went to hell
If he scored more while staying efficient that matters a lot.
As the primary ball handler did he start throwing the ball all over the place with turnovers? If not, that matters because it shows he's capable of doing more than he's asked to do playing off Luka being ball dominant.
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