Prior to last season I was a Daniel Jones believer. I convinced myself that this kid had all the qualities he needed to be the NY Giants QB. Then three games into last season I stopped believing. Last season was historically awful, and as I see it he was part of the reason for that. You can blame coaching, blame Gettleman, blame the Oline, blame the WRs and TEs and RBs, but at some point I looked at Daniel Jones and he just wasn't doing it for me. He looked just plain old bad out there, and he also looked foolish.
On the other hand I so badly wanted and want this kid to succeed. He is a great kid. He doesn't make excuses. He did have a small window of flashes albeit inconsistently. He acts the part. If he succeeds the Giants will succeed, and as a rabid Giants fan I want that more than anything.
But as much as I want it I cannot, right now, convince myself that he can be successful. Hence the Two Faces of Daniel Jones: Belief and Desire.
I Want It To Stop!
Been trying to think of one..But I think the one QB who can do what you asked,has not been born yet..
Daboll and Schoen know a lot more about this than we do, are there every day, and have their career tied to this decision. From the "Jones point of view" this HC/GM hire was the right call. Now time will tell.
I firmly believe the Giants will be a better team without him at QB, so every game he starts just delays that
But I agree, with the sentiment, just sit backwatch the process, and trust in Schoen and Daboll to decide his future with the team.
It really doesn’t matter whether you or anyone else here believes in him.
So in the meanwhile, post whatever opinion you want to on Daniel Jones...
It's been 10 years now, but let's see how the QB does with a competent OL.
LT is vital but any QB that see a turnstile at RT plays poorly.
The good news....these guys have done a substantial job improving the OL.
Daniel Jones has a year to prove if he belongs
By the end of this season, we should have a real good read as to whether or not Daniel Jones will be a New York Giant in 2023.
That's the Joe Schoen / Brian Daboll plan.
This is where this conversation goes off the rails every single time, and it's usually due to the binary nature of this exact set of reasoning (or excuses, depending on your POV).
It is next to impossible for a QB to succeed in the scenario you describe. In fact, it might make very many good QBs look bad.
However, a bad QB can also make that scenario happen by himself. Blocking will look worse if a QB has poor awareness pre or post snap (and horrific if the QB lacks adequate awareness both before and after the snap). WRs will look much worse than they are if their QB is bad. Play-calling will look unimaginative if a QB's flaws/weaknesses must be covered up at all times. A running game will struggle to succeed if a defense doesn't have to respect the threat of a dynamic passing game.
All of the reasons that DJ's most ardent defenders use to excuse his play to date can also be explained by DJ's level of play. It's possible (not necessarily likely, just possible) that DJ is at least in part the cause of the unfavorable scenario that surrounds him and not simply the victim of it.
I don’t think I can convince myself of that.
I don’t think I can convince myself of that.
Yes this is also an interesting perspective that probably won't be a popular discussion. How is Gettleman's tenure ranked if Jones goes on to become successful - lol.
If you take this view you have to ax him just for cleansing purposes.
I don't think he's as bad as he's looked in the Judge/Garrett system because that was just a set up to fail, you also saw a drop off when Glennon/Fromm got into the game. Despite that, I just don't see a kid that will ever go toe to toe with a Pat Mahomes, Josh Allen, Joe Burrow, Aaron Rogers etc... in the playoffs.
He may be average one day but lets be real, you don't play this game to be average, you play to win the Super Bowl. If you don't think he can win you a ring, you move on for someone who can.
LOL!
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I was really really hoping there would be a Daniel Jones thread today🙄
LOL!
Did you get a speeding ticket in Maryland, or have a bad batch of crabs to eat?
Why does Maryland blow?
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concern about Jones is that if he does become the man it would mean Dave Gettleman, John Mara, Chris Pettit, Kevin Abrams, Pat Shurmur and Joe Judge were all right about something.
I don’t think I can convince myself of that.
Yes this is also an interesting perspective that probably won't be a popular discussion. How is Gettleman's tenure ranked if Jones goes on to become successful - lol.
If you take this view you have to ax him just for cleansing purposes.
What would they be right about that is all that compelling?
That they found a guy that could play QB in the NFL but he couldn't do it very well while they were in charge?
I firmly believe the Giants will be a better team without him at QB, so every game he starts just delays that
And that is pretty much what those who before Daniel Jones was injured said as they asked for Glennon to take over the job as quarterback. How did that work out?
I firmly believe the Giants will be a better team without him at QB, so every game he starts just delays that
Are you saying that you would feel that much better if we just cut ties with Danile Jones right now and let Tyrod Taylor and/or Davis Webb start and play all 17 games in 2022?
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Is having to watch Daniel Jones be the QB for another season.
I firmly believe the Giants will be a better team without him at QB, so every game he starts just delays that
Are you saying that you would feel that much better if we just cut ties with Danile Jones right now and let Tyrod Taylor and/or Davis Webb start and play all 17 games in 2022?
I'd have no issues with that. Lose as much as possible and get into position for a better option in next year's draft.
Were you just trying to write a catchy thread title?
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Is having to watch Daniel Jones be the QB for another season.
I firmly believe the Giants will be a better team without him at QB, so every game he starts just delays that
And that is pretty much what those who before Daniel Jones was injured said as they asked for Glennon to take over the job as quarterback. How did that work out?
They managed to replace him with QBs even worse, being better than Glennon and Fromm doesn't mean much.
In comment 15741976 M.S. said:
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Is having to watch Daniel Jones be the QB for another season.
I firmly believe the Giants will be a better team without him at QB, so every game he starts just delays that
Are you saying that you would feel that much better if we just cut ties with Danile Jones right now and let Tyrod Taylor and/or Davis Webb start and play all 17 games in 2022?
Not Webb, but TT starting? 1000% I would feel better.
Dawson Knox was not much of a blocker in Buffalo. Who did Cincy or Rams have blocking at TE?
Were you just trying to write a catchy thread title?
They are the Two Faces that I see through my Belief and my Desire
Link - ( New Window )
I don’t think I can convince myself of that.
Only Gettleman, Pettit, and Shurmur can claim to have been right. The rest just went along for the ride.
Giants needed a potential franchise QB from that draft. Was there a better pick?
Jones was never a good player. Not in high school (as evident with his total lack of scholarship offers despite possessing the prototypical size and good enough arm), his failure to garner any sort of accolades in college, and his current standing (solid bottom tier) among his positional peers. His best football achievement likely was fooling a buffoon of an NFL GM into drafting him 6th overall.
If a new guy comes in, hires a new staff, replaces a bunch of players, and handful of the incumbents improve -- that's the new guy's success.
If I got fired today, and a new person salvaged my departments, I'm not getting the performance bonus.
I’ll believe until his disproves my faith in him.
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concern about Jones is that if he does become the man it would mean Dave Gettleman, John Mara, Chris Pettit, Kevin Abrams, Pat Shurmur and Joe Judge were all right about something.
I don’t think I can convince myself of that.
Only Gettleman, Pettit, and Shurmur can claim to have been right. The rest just went along for the ride.
Giants needed a potential franchise QB from that draft. Was there a better pick?
No, they did not need a potential franchise QB FROM THAT DRAFT.
They needed a potential franchise QB, but could have taken one the year prior or the year following if they so chose. They could have maneuvered around the 2017 draft if they saw their guy in that draft.
Deciding that 2019 was the year that they needed to draft a QB and that it could only be 2019 is illogical, especially when they had already allowed Eli's roster bonus for 2019 to vest.
If the Giants truly did lock in on 2019 as the year they had to draft a potential franchise QB, to the complete and total exclusion of the years (and QB draft classes) that preceded or followed, it makes the entire process of drafting DJ an even bigger blunder, and would require a really naive fan to accept it.
Was that what you meant to suggest?
Game 1 - 10 car / 26 yards / 0 TDs / 2.6 YPC / 1.2 YBC/ATT
Game 2 - 13 car / 57 yards / 0 TDs / 4.3 YPC / 1.8 YBC/ATT
Game 3 - 16 car / 51 yards / 1 TDs / 3.1 YPC / 1.7 YBC/ATT
= 39 car / 134 yards / 1 TDs / 3.4 YPC / 1.56 YBC/ATT
Someone should go and take a look at the Giants overall rushing statistics provided by RBs during Daniel Jones tenure, because I'm willing to bet it's horrible. I feel a lot of people have ignored or underestimated how important a running game is in keeping a defense honest and the subsequent success of a QB. Add the fact the OL had struggled up until last season and DJ's already has had to learn 2 new offenses in 3 years (and another new one coming), and you get a recipe for "who tf knows" when evaluating Daniel Jones.
I think this has to be the final evaluation year but I am willing to start fresh and evaluate DJ based on this 1 season, good or bad. It sucks he has to learn a new offense again (especially since there was a noticeable improvement in a number of areas in yr 2 of Garret's offense last season, you could tell he was doing much less thinking and much more relying purely on his talent), but that's just how it has to be.
I am still holding on to some hope that he can be the Giants QB of the future. I like the fact that Daboll/Kafka are the ones he is learning under because they have a unique way they teach their QBs to handle progressions, and it was a massive success for Josh Allen. Fingers crossed.
'You thought DJ could be a decent QB in an indecent league. But you were wrong.'
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'You thought DJ could be a decent QB in an indecent league. But you were wrong.'
well done SFG...
What in the fucking hell are you talking about?
Game 1 - 10 car / 26 yards / 0 TDs / 2.6 YPC / 1.2 YBC/ATT
Game 2 - 13 car / 57 yards / 0 TDs / 4.3 YPC / 1.8 YBC/ATT
Game 3 - 16 car / 51 yards / 1 TDs / 3.1 YPC / 1.7 YBC/ATT
= 39 car / 134 yards / 1 TDs / 3.4 YPC / 1.56 YBC/ATT
Someone should go and take a look at the Giants overall rushing statistics provided by RBs during Daniel Jones tenure, because I'm willing to bet it's horrible. I feel a lot of people have ignored or underestimated how important a running game is in keeping a defense honest and the subsequent success of a QB. Add the fact the OL had struggled up until last season and DJ's already has had to learn 2 new offenses in 3 years (and another new one coming), and you get a recipe for "who tf knows" when evaluating Daniel Jones.
I think this has to be the final evaluation year but I am willing to start fresh and evaluate DJ based on this 1 season, good or bad. It sucks he has to learn a new offense again (especially since there was a noticeable improvement in a number of areas in yr 2 of Garret's offense last season, you could tell he was doing much less thinking and much more relying purely on his talent), but that's just how it has to be.
I am still holding on to some hope that he can be the Giants QB of the future. I like the fact that Daboll/Kafka are the ones he is learning under because they have a unique way they teach their QBs to handle progressions, and it was a massive success for Josh Allen. Fingers crossed.
What is the unique way they teach their QBs to handle progressions?
you know he’s right deep down, gidie. homerism only goes so far.
you know he’s right deep down, gidie. homerism only goes so far.
How did he chase him away?
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may be feeling guilty for chasing Go Terps away.
you know he’s right deep down, gidie. homerism only goes so far.
How did he chase him away?
I think it may have to do with a new poster who joined just to antagonize him personally, it gets old.
The site shouldn't allow it IMO.
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In comment 15742518 The Jake said:
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may be feeling guilty for chasing Go Terps away.
you know he’s right deep down, gidie. homerism only goes so far.
How did he chase him away?
I think it may have to do with a new poster who joined just to antagonize him personally, it gets old.
The site shouldn't allow it IMO.
Unlikely. Go Terps has pretty thick skin from what I read on here. Who's the new poster causing issues?
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was sacked 8 times, and there were 8 official drops recorded after the 1st 3 games last season. The rushing numbers provided by Saquon Barkley during that stretch were as follows:
Game 1 - 10 car / 26 yards / 0 TDs / 2.6 YPC / 1.2 YBC/ATT
Game 2 - 13 car / 57 yards / 0 TDs / 4.3 YPC / 1.8 YBC/ATT
Game 3 - 16 car / 51 yards / 1 TDs / 3.1 YPC / 1.7 YBC/ATT
= 39 car / 134 yards / 1 TDs / 3.4 YPC / 1.56 YBC/ATT
Someone should go and take a look at the Giants overall rushing statistics provided by RBs during Daniel Jones tenure, because I'm willing to bet it's horrible. I feel a lot of people have ignored or underestimated how important a running game is in keeping a defense honest and the subsequent success of a QB. Add the fact the OL had struggled up until last season and DJ's already has had to learn 2 new offenses in 3 years (and another new one coming), and you get a recipe for "who tf knows" when evaluating Daniel Jones.
I think this has to be the final evaluation year but I am willing to start fresh and evaluate DJ based on this 1 season, good or bad. It sucks he has to learn a new offense again (especially since there was a noticeable improvement in a number of areas in yr 2 of Garret's offense last season, you could tell he was doing much less thinking and much more relying purely on his talent), but that's just how it has to be.
I am still holding on to some hope that he can be the Giants QB of the future. I like the fact that Daboll/Kafka are the ones he is learning under because they have a unique way they teach their QBs to handle progressions, and it was a massive success for Josh Allen. Fingers crossed.
What is the unique way they teach their QBs to handle progressions?
Adding to that, Daboll and Kafka have never coached together, so if they have a unique way of teaching QBs to handle progressions, I have to wonder:
1) how would a fan know that already?
2) how would they have the same unique way of teaching QBs to handle progressions?
3) whose unique way was it originally?
4) if Daboll and Kafka share the same unique way of teaching progressions, how is it unique?
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In comment 15742520 NYGgolfer said:
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In comment 15742518 The Jake said:
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may be feeling guilty for chasing Go Terps away.
you know he’s right deep down, gidie. homerism only goes so far.
How did he chase him away?
I think it may have to do with a new poster who joined just to antagonize him personally, it gets old.
The site shouldn't allow it IMO.
Unlikely. Go Terps has pretty thick skin from what I read on here. Who's the new poster causing issues?
I'd have to guess it's the dipshit who even has a handle intended to antagonize Maryland.
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In comment 15741849 eli4life said:
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I was really really hoping there would be a Daniel Jones thread today🙄
LOL!
Did you get a speeding ticket in Maryland, or have a bad batch of crabs to eat?
Why does Maryland blow?
The Inner Harbor area is pretty good, and Fells Point is always a good time to eat and drink.
Why do you think Maryland blows?
you know he’s right deep down, gidie. homerism only goes so far.
I was actually surprised a thread with this title only had 50 posts or so when seeing it this morning. Now I know why.
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In comment 15742079 kelsto811 said:
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was sacked 8 times, and there were 8 official drops recorded after the 1st 3 games last season. The rushing numbers provided by Saquon Barkley during that stretch were as follows:
Game 1 - 10 car / 26 yards / 0 TDs / 2.6 YPC / 1.2 YBC/ATT
Game 2 - 13 car / 57 yards / 0 TDs / 4.3 YPC / 1.8 YBC/ATT
Game 3 - 16 car / 51 yards / 1 TDs / 3.1 YPC / 1.7 YBC/ATT
= 39 car / 134 yards / 1 TDs / 3.4 YPC / 1.56 YBC/ATT
Someone should go and take a look at the Giants overall rushing statistics provided by RBs during Daniel Jones tenure, because I'm willing to bet it's horrible. I feel a lot of people have ignored or underestimated how important a running game is in keeping a defense honest and the subsequent success of a QB. Add the fact the OL had struggled up until last season and DJ's already has had to learn 2 new offenses in 3 years (and another new one coming), and you get a recipe for "who tf knows" when evaluating Daniel Jones.
I think this has to be the final evaluation year but I am willing to start fresh and evaluate DJ based on this 1 season, good or bad. It sucks he has to learn a new offense again (especially since there was a noticeable improvement in a number of areas in yr 2 of Garret's offense last season, you could tell he was doing much less thinking and much more relying purely on his talent), but that's just how it has to be.
I am still holding on to some hope that he can be the Giants QB of the future. I like the fact that Daboll/Kafka are the ones he is learning under because they have a unique way they teach their QBs to handle progressions, and it was a massive success for Josh Allen. Fingers crossed.
What is the unique way they teach their QBs to handle progressions?
Adding to that, Daboll and Kafka have never coached together, so if they have a unique way of teaching QBs to handle progressions, I have to wonder:
1) how would a fan know that already?
2) how would they have the same unique way of teaching QBs to handle progressions?
3) whose unique way was it originally?
4) if Daboll and Kafka share the same unique way of teaching progressions, how is it unique?
Yea, it's Daboll obviously but it will be Daboll/Kafka implementing it. Bad choice of words on my part. All of the progressions he teaches are situational based on what the defense is giving you (see YT video) and will even have vertical as opposed to horizontal progressions when necessary + teaches some unique concepts with the WRs. The video and articles will shed some light:
https://youtu.be/z4zGaGuTVbo - this guy explains the progressions
https://theathletic.com/2324003/2021/01/15/brian-daboll-bills-coaching/
For better or worse, Daboll has been obsessive about every detail of the offense during his career, and that’s most apparent in the way he charts and teaches protections. Most offensive coordinators let their quarterbacks coaches lead blitz meetings, but Anderson says that Daboll was always present in those sessions during their time together in Buffalo.
“Dabes is very hands-on with that, which I thought was awesome,” Anderson said. When DiMarco got to Buffalo in 2017, he’d spent the previous two seasons in Atlanta with renowned offensive coach Kyle Shanahan. But DiMarco said that he’s never had an offensive coordinator who’s better at cataloging and teaching protections than Daboll. “Dabes had a different take on protections, different ways for back and quarterback and line to see things and how they operate based on safety rotation and the defensive back set up,” DiMarco said. “I wish I’d known this stuff earlier in my career. When I was in Atlanta because it would have cleaned things up for me. The way that Dabes saw stuff really made it easier for the backs and the quarterback.
”It’s no accident that despite Allen having the second-longest time to throw in the NFL (2.85 seconds, according to PFF), he has the third lowest sack rate in the NFL (10.7 percent). “These indicators were 60 percent, 70 percent true,” DiMarco said. “So it cleaned the game up, sped the game up for the offense, big time. And kudos to Dabes for digging in and doing all the research and studying the analytics behind it all.”
https://buffalonews.com/sports/bills/footwork-and-new-philosophy-could-push-josh-allen-in-year-2/article_e83700b2-88d5-5396-bba0-0a69777e9276.html - see reading situations + option routes section
https://www.buffalobills.com/news/no-9-what-should-be-expected-from-brian-daboll-s-offense - see matchup focused + multi dimensional section