Will Jordan and he is an author of the “Ryan Drake” series of suspense novels. I have a few, they are well written and enjoyable. He knows what he’s talking about.
what Eric wrote. What guys like Drinker and Nerdrotic are trying to point out is you can’t push a focus on female or diverse characters and right them in a shitty fashion, surround them with garbage, lift them up by putting the male characters down. That makes for a really crappy product. AND that is the definition of “wokeness”.
Looking at this series it’s callled “Kenobi” but it’s about Leia and Reva. That’s bait and switch and will piss off the fan base (which is 70% male) EVERY time.
They might be able to get away with it if the writing, direction and production were of higher quality. Unfortunately, Kennedy has proven, consistently, she has total disdain for Star Wars, except as a vehicle to push HER agenda ( he comments are part of the public record).
Àlong with giving us an Obi-wan who is a shell of himself (which is NOT what we wanted to see, they give us a static Leia character ( breaking Canon from A New Hope), who is the adult character at 10. The laughable part is Anakin in the prequels, Started as a 10 year old and grew into a character that could become Darth Vader by the 3rd movie. It makes the treatment of Leia a joke. That’s what Drinker is pointing out.
And, the notion here or by Disney that anyone critical of the series or the Reva character is simply racist and/or a misogynist and/or perpetuating some "white boy agenda" is ludicrous. Most long time fans complaining here have embraced other female and/or Black characters...when they were done well. Leia was a wildly popular and iconic character...until they wrecked her floating through space and the like. But, in the original trilogy, Leia didn't need to take a back seat to anyone or have Han or Luke appear weak. She was a heroine in her own right. Lando is a beloved Black character. More recently, Jinn, Finnick, Bo Kattan, Padme, and Ahsoka were all well liked and strong female characters. Jinn carried an entire movie, for crying out loud.
Even Rey started out like a potentially strong character. The problem is, most of the current Disney Star Wars projects feel the need to make all other characters, especially males, bumbling idiots in order to bolster the female character. Rey needed Luke to be grumpy recluse with no redeeming qualities left, Han to die, and Po and Finn to be reduced to comedic relief. And, Kylo to be a petulant baby. Reva needed Obi-wan to be a shell of himself. Even Finnick needed Boba Fett to be a joke.
Then you have Rose. Yes, there was some disgusting backlash by racist "fans". But, more importantly, people were critical of her role, not the character or actress. She started out with great potential and then was reduced to nothing in the final 2 films, not unlike Po and Finn.
Most fans have proven the ability and interest to accept and adore strong female characters. But, we want them to have better stories and to stand on their own. It is perfectly fair to be critical of Reva for being poorly written and acted. It is also a fair criticism that as much or more was invested in Reva's redemption than Obi-wan's (let's not mention that in canon, Obi-wan wasn't in need of a redemption arc). Why? This is a character we just met. The series is literally called Obi-wan. That's who most fans wanted to see.
Probably aided by the fact that I went into it with rock bottom expectations.
Me too, I went in hearing it sucked but actually it was above average. There were really good parts to it. My only real dislike was the casting of Han. I just didn't buy it.
Had nothing to do with Rey and needing to be strong. They were just finally granting Ford his wish from before RotJ
Not directly, it didn't. I recognize that it gave Ford his wish. But I also firmly believe if they weren't granting Ford his swan song, they would have ruined Han the way they've done with just about every other iconic character from the original trilogy.
And I haven't seen a single one of the movies or shows discussed here (I did manage to see Star Wars and The Empire Strikes Back when they were first released in theaters, but haven't seen a Star Wars movie since then). The only reason I clicked on the thread is because I thought Kenobi might be a new Japanese whiskey on the market (not that I drink whiskey, but I enjoy the reviews for some reason and purchase bottles as if they're collectibles to be stored away as an investment) and then I stuck around for the debate about woke casting, which reminded me of an interview with the inimitable Hazelle Goodman and what she had to say on the subject...
Quote:
To this day, Hazelle Goodman is the sole black actress to land a significant role in an Allen film, playing the quirky prostitute Cookie in 1997’s Deconstructing Harry. (The other key black character in Allen’s filmography was played by Chiwetel Ejiofor in Melinda and Melinda.) Despite the controversy, the 56-year-old Goodman, who lives in Queens, doesn’t understand the fuss...
What do you think of the controversy surrounding the whiteness of his casts and the idea that he only really portrays white people?
Here’s my take on that: Any filmmaker has the right to create his vision. That’s his vision. That’s how he sees the world. And he has a right to that, just like if Spike Lee does a film, he puts a lot of black folk in it. Everyone is creating from their vision. If Woody sees the world that way, that’s Woody’s world. I don’t trip about that.
That said, he always sets his movies in very diverse cities — New York City, London, San Francisco, Paris. So, watching his movies you can’t help but say: Where are the black people? Where are the Asian people?
(Laughs.) The world is multicultural. But again, everybody has their vision. I just have that attitude about life. Whatever you want to see, you go create it. If that’s his reality, then that’s his reality.
Woody has said that he will only cast a black actor if the role calls for it. What do you think of that?
It’s not for me to judge it. If I’m not happy, it’s for me to create the stories I want to tell. These are his stories.
Do you have any thoughts on diversity in Hollywood today in general? Do you see progress since when you first started? Stagnation?
There seems to be progress. But it’s an ongoing saga that we see in Hollywood, on billboards, on covers of magazines. It’s a white world that we’re looking at many times. What’s always the challenge for actors of color is to stand out. Finding your voice and letting that voice be heard. And that’s the level I really connected with Woody. I had an HBO special at the time and had been writing and performing my own work. I never really bothered myself about what Hollywood was doing. I don’t really have that spirit that just waits on people to pick me. And that’s what’s most important is finding your voice and getting heard rather than getting in the conversation of: “Oh, they’re not casting us.” I hate that conversation. It’s such a victim conversation. Who cares? Go write, create, speak out.
is like Gamergate to me in that the criticism has become inextricably intertwined with the misogyny and bigotry.
It's never about woke casting. Except it's always about woke casting.
Here's a great question: Why the F have these old fans not moved on?
The original series hasn't even held up well. It was slop. Just about everything that has come since has been slop.
Seems like it'd be easy for grown men to move on from except that Star Wars has become a political battleground for these folks.
They are moving on.
The YouTubers are not because that's how they make their money.
Much of base audience - such as myself has abandoned the Franchise - I didn't watch Rise of Skywalker, Solo,, last four episodes of this series. Disney has done the impossible. They ruined Star Wars. It's one of the big contributing factors for their stock falling 50 percent.
The only thing that needs to be said about the series is this
Bringing back the line about putting a tracking device on a ship to stop a character from feeling the wrath of a superior. How fucking lazy can you be?
is like Gamergate to me in that the criticism has become inextricably intertwined with the misogyny and bigotry.
It's never about woke casting. Except it's always about woke casting.
Here's a great question: Why the F have these old fans not moved on?
The original series hasn't even held up well. It was slop. Just about everything that has come since has been slop.
Seems like it'd be easy for grown men to move on from except that Star Wars has become a political battleground for these folks.
They are moving on.
The YouTubers are not because that's how they make their money.
Much of base audience - such as myself has abandoned the Franchise - I didn't watch Rise of Skywalker, Solo,, last four episodes of this series. Disney has done the impossible. They ruined Star Wars. It's one of the big contributing factors for their stock falling 50 percent.
I don't know how significant the exit of long time fans is. I know I am a masochist and keep watching. Of course, part of that is my boys. But, they are starting to grow tired of the new stuff also.
I disagree that the original trilogy did not hold up. The effects are still amazing. The opening scene of A New Hope is still one of the most captivating of all time. That immerses the viewer, especially a young one, in space.
I will say this. If most younger fans are anything like my boys, they are fans because of the original trilogy and NOT the prequels or any newer material. Clone Wars is what kept them fans. The sequels nearly lost them and me. We are hanging on by a thread. The only saving grace right now is Madalorian, which I think they are ruining by keeping Grogu as a focal point.
no longer liking star wars doesn't impact revenue. That age bracket (those who were kids for the originals) have mostly already had children who are now teens/20's. Their impact either happened, or it didn't by now.
IMO, more than anything its simply fatigue. You are seeing it with Marvel too - its just too much. Pumping things out will keep many engaged but over time it will result in an inflated perception of interest and valuation.
Disney's problem is going to be new IP, which is generally a problem for anyone in the streaming space. When there's no contracts, users can just leave and come back later if something interesting comes out.
There has now been about 11 films and 6 television series that are considered canon to the Star Wars franchise - if someone only likes 25% of the content, and hates the rest of it, then it's kinda silly for that person to keep considering themself as a "true Star Wars fan". It's a weird phenomenon that seems to only occur with Star Wars as an entertainment medium.
And that's not to say that there's anything wrong with romanticizing the original trilogy, or being critical of any of the new content that has since come out - that's all fair. There's just this obvious huge blind spot for some people when it comes to this franchise which leads them to believe that there ever was masterpiece storytelling associated with it. The target audience has always been children - by design the plot and characters have always been very basic. With a few exceptions the acting and dialogue have always been subpar.
Taken for what it is, obviously Star Wars can still be enjoyed as an adult. I'm certainly one of those adults - I agree that some stuff has been really good, and I also agree that some stuff has been downright awful. But with regard to Kenobi, I thought that the series was good, and at the very least middling in quality between what's been released over the span of the entire franchise. It also required very little investment (it's just 6 short-ish episodes). Yes, there were plenty of plot holes, but there really wasn't anything more egregious than what's been present in previous projects.
There has now been about 11 films and 6 television series that are considered canon to the Star Wars franchise - if someone only likes 25% of the content, and hates the rest of it, then it's kinda silly for that person to keep considering themself as a "true Star Wars fan". It's a weird phenomenon that seems to only occur with Star Wars as an entertainment medium.
And that's not to say that there's anything wrong with romanticizing the original trilogy, or being critical of any of the new content that has since come out - that's all fair. There's just this obvious huge blind spot for some people when it comes to this franchise which leads them to believe that there ever was masterpiece storytelling associated with it. The target audience has always been children - by design the plot and characters have always been very basic. With a few exceptions the acting and dialogue have always been subpar.
Taken for what it is, obviously Star Wars can still be enjoyed as an adult. I'm certainly one of those adults - I agree that some stuff has been really good, and I also agree that some stuff has been downright awful. But with regard to Kenobi, I thought that the series was good, and at the very least middling in quality between what's been released over the span of the entire franchise. It also required very little investment (it's just 6 short-ish episodes). Yes, there were plenty of plot holes, but there really wasn't anything more egregious than what's been present in previous projects.
If a Giants fans hated the last 10 years of Giants football, it's kind of silly for them to keep calling themselves Giants fans.
is like Gamergate to me in that the criticism has become inextricably intertwined with the misogyny and bigotry.
It's never about woke casting. Except it's always about woke casting.
Here's a great question: Why the F have these old fans not moved on?
The original series hasn't even held up well. It was slop. Just about everything that has come since has been slop.
Seems like it'd be easy for grown men to move on from except that Star Wars has become a political battleground for these folks.
They are moving on.
The YouTubers are not because that's how they make their money.
Much of base audience - such as myself has abandoned the Franchise - I didn't watch Rise of Skywalker, Solo,, last four episodes of this series. Disney has done the impossible. They ruined Star Wars. It's one of the big contributing factors for their stock falling 50 percent.
If, as you say, the only good stuff since the original trilogy is Clone Wars, Rogue One and Mandalorian (and I agree 100%), then can Disney really ruin Star Wars? Or is it time to consider if it's not all that great a "Universe" as it's cracked up to be?
Great stories are part of every culture. Those stories help define who we are as a people. This goes back to the dawn of human history.
When you start deconstructing those stories/folklore/traditions, it doesn't sit well with those who loves those stories.
Star Wars isn't a complicated story. It's characters are not complicated. They are largely based on the heroes arc, going back to a least Greek antiquity.
It's very hard to botch that, but Disney did. Beyond that, as mentioned over and over and over again, the new stories don't make any sense. It's like a first-year film student wrote it with huge plot holes.
So not only does it wreck previous "tradition" but it's simply bad film making.
Great stories are part of every culture. Those stories help define who we are as a people. This goes back to the dawn of human history.
When you start deconstructing those stories/folklore/traditions, it doesn't sit well with those who loves those stories.
Star Wars isn't a complicated story. It's characters are not complicated. They are largely based on the heroes arc, going back to a least Greek antiquity.
It's very hard to botch that, but Disney did. Beyond that, as mentioned over and over and over again, the new stories don't make any sense. It's like a first-year film student wrote it with huge plot holes.
So not only does it wreck previous "tradition" but it's simply bad film making.
I see. What you're saying is that the new stuff from Disney ruined the old stuff for you? That's what you meant? Or perhaps I latched on to the word "ruined" and went the wrong direction. I guess I understand how that can be true for folks. I thought you meant that Disney picked it up and ruined it from there. And I guess my point is that most stuff anyone has tried to add, including by Lucas himself haven't been nearly as good as the OG trilogy. The original trilogy is still great. The shitty prequels didn't ruin it for me. The terrible stuff since hasn't ruined it for me either.
They're still going to make stuff. I hope we start to see something outside of the Empire-Skywalker arc finally. Something that's original, rather than trying to stitch itself into something old that people love.
There has now been about 11 films and 6 television series that are considered canon to the Star Wars franchise - if someone only likes 25% of the content, and hates the rest of it, then it's kinda silly for that person to keep considering themself as a "true Star Wars fan". It's a weird phenomenon that seems to only occur with Star Wars as an entertainment medium.
And that's not to say that there's anything wrong with romanticizing the original trilogy, or being critical of any of the new content that has since come out - that's all fair. There's just this obvious huge blind spot for some people when it comes to this franchise which leads them to believe that there ever was masterpiece storytelling associated with it. The target audience has always been children - by design the plot and characters have always been very basic. With a few exceptions the acting and dialogue have always been subpar.
Taken for what it is, obviously Star Wars can still be enjoyed as an adult. I'm certainly one of those adults - I agree that some stuff has been really good, and I also agree that some stuff has been downright awful. But with regard to Kenobi, I thought that the series was good, and at the very least middling in quality between what's been released over the span of the entire franchise. It also required very little investment (it's just 6 short-ish episodes). Yes, there were plenty of plot holes, but there really wasn't anything more egregious than what's been present in previous projects.
Good post ! I remember when the first standalone Star Wars movie came out. The full name of the associated novel was Star Wars from the adventures of Luke Skywalker. At the time it was considered the Wizard of Oz in outer space. As such it became the all time box office champ. A few years later "Empire" came out and Lucas announced that going forward the Star Wars universe would consist of three trilogies and that "Empire Strikes Back" was the middle chapter of the middle trilogy. To the surprise of movie goers of that era "Empire" was a much darker serious story which, of course contained the greatest movie reveal of my generation, possibly of all time. Later on the prequels had a somewhat different tone. The had to. Being prequels not only do we know how they are going to end, but that ending would be unpleasant.
Later on Disney took over. They were very upfront that in the Disney/Star Wars universe only the movies were considered canon. The Lucas era novels and comics were out the window. I think that upset a lot of people, but contrary to a lot of what's said I've found the Mandalorian , Kenobi ( at least the 3 episodes I've seen ) and the Disney era novels to be very consistent with the over all universe.
For my part I've enjoyed Star Wars since it was developed in my 20's. Since then I've enjoyed it with my nephews and niece and I expect to enjoy it with my grand-nephews and nieces. I thought episodes I - VII plus Rouge were among the best entertainment I've seen in my lifetime. XI plus Solo weren't up to that level but were by no means bad. A lot of the criticism I see about Kenobi, the Prequels and Disney seems to be nitpicking.
The Mandalorian works BECAUSE (1) it did not break with cannon, but adhered to it (it's more Clone Wars cartoon lore than anything), (2) the story is a good one and the shows are tight, entertaining, and plausible, (3) it's well cast, and (4) it's a quality production.
There has now been about 11 films and 6 television series that are considered canon to the Star Wars franchise - if someone only likes 25% of the content, and hates the rest of it, then it's kinda silly for that person to keep considering themself as a "true Star Wars fan". It's a weird phenomenon that seems to only occur with Star Wars as an entertainment medium.
And that's not to say that there's anything wrong with romanticizing the original trilogy, or being critical of any of the new content that has since come out - that's all fair. There's just this obvious huge blind spot for some people when it comes to this franchise which leads them to believe that there ever was masterpiece storytelling associated with it. The target audience has always been children - by design the plot and characters have always been very basic. With a few exceptions the acting and dialogue have always been subpar.
Taken for what it is, obviously Star Wars can still be enjoyed as an adult. I'm certainly one of those adults - I agree that some stuff has been really good, and I also agree that some stuff has been downright awful. But with regard to Kenobi, I thought that the series was good, and at the very least middling in quality between what's been released over the span of the entire franchise. It also required very little investment (it's just 6 short-ish episodes). Yes, there were plenty of plot holes, but there really wasn't anything more egregious than what's been present in previous projects.
Good post ! I remember when the first standalone Star Wars movie came out. The full name of the associated novel was Star Wars from the adventures of Luke Skywalker. At the time it was considered the Wizard of Oz in outer space. As such it became the all time box office champ. A few years later "Empire" came out and Lucas announced that going forward the Star Wars universe would consist of three trilogies and that "Empire Strikes Back" was the middle chapter of the middle trilogy. To the surprise of movie goers of that era "Empire" was a much darker serious story which, of course contained the greatest movie reveal of my generation, possibly of all time. Later on the prequels had a somewhat different tone. The had to. Being prequels not only do we know how they are going to end, but that ending would be unpleasant.
Later on Disney took over. They were very upfront that in the Disney/Star Wars universe only the movies were considered canon. The Lucas era novels and comics were out the window. I think that upset a lot of people, but contrary to a lot of what's said I've found the Mandalorian , Kenobi ( at least the 3 episodes I've seen ) and the Disney era novels to be very consistent with the over all universe.
For my part I've enjoyed Star Wars since it was developed in my 20's. Since then I've enjoyed it with my nephews and niece and I expect to enjoy it with my grand-nephews and nieces. I thought episodes I - VII plus Rouge were among the best entertainment I've seen in my lifetime. XI plus Solo weren't up to that level but were by no means bad. A lot of the criticism I see about Kenobi, the Prequels and Disney seems to be nitpicking.
Ron - I disagree about the consistency with the overall universe. I've mentioned it many times now across a few threads...Obi-wan was training in earnest from day one. His internal conflicts were not as a broken man or PTSD (as has been suggested) and he hadn't given up on the Force or being a Jedi. To the contrary, that was the source of his conflict. He did not want to stand by and watch the Empire abuse people or thugs abuse people. He took being a Jedi still very seriously and found ways to help people while conspicuously using the Force. He never left Tatooine; he was watching Luke in earnest the entire duration.
Again, I’m basing my opinions on the three episodes of Kenobi I’ve seen. For all I know the series falls off a cliff later on, but from what I’ve seen the plot is plausible and is keeping with canon. Ben Kenobi is a broken down old man as this series starts. Is that so surprising ? His failure in training Anakin and his failure in recognizing that Palpatine was a Sith has led to the destruction of the Jedi and the death and destruction associated with the rise of the Empire. When he finds out that Anakin is still alive he realizes that his failure is greater than he previously knew. How could he not feel guilty about that ? As for Leia’s message in IV, where is the inconsistency ? “Help me Obi-Wan …… Years ago you helped my father in the clone wars ….. “ What did you expect her to say ? “Years later you got your ass kicked from one end of the galaxy to the other and nearly got me killed.”
One thing the they’ve done in the prequels and the Disney universe which I like is that they have explored the flaws in the Jedi order and their members. Luke and Obi-wan are not one dimensional swashbuckling heroes, but they are men who have done good, but are also haunted by their failures.
The Jedi may have been the guardians of truth and justice but they are also an inflexible cult that separates children from their parents and enforces a strict personal code on their members that many are unable to comply with. In one telling scene Leia asks Ben about his parents. He says with a sense of sadness and regret that he can’t remember much about his mother. It reminded me when Luke and Leia had a similar conversation in VI. At the other end of the spectrum, although the empire is brutal and corrupt there are those who are trying to work with it and others with legitimate grievances that support it. This is touched on in Kenobi and the Mandalorian and explored more deeply in the Disney/Star Wars novels.
Let's talk about the elephant in the room: The Disney/PC/Woke nonsense. Obviously its present here. They could have found a better actress to play Reva. The trope of the angry black woman being disrespected by the older white and Asian superiors is hardly subtle. This is problem throughout Disney. Its dragged down a number of Disney/Pixar movies as well as some Marvel series. This is a problem Disney is going to have to deal with.
That aside, is it a show stopper here ? I don’t think so. The acting in Star Wars has never been at the level one would find in Breaking Bad for example, nor does it have to be. Reva is one of several stiff acting performances we have seen over the years in the Star Wars universe. In the Star Trek universe we had to deal with Wesley and Neelix for years. At least in my opinion it does not take away from the overall experience.
There has now been about 11 films and 6 television series that are considered canon to the Star Wars franchise - if someone only likes 25% of the content, and hates the rest of it, then it's kinda silly for that person to keep considering themself as a "true Star Wars fan". It's a weird phenomenon that seems to only occur with Star Wars as an entertainment medium.
And that's not to say that there's anything wrong with romanticizing the original trilogy, or being critical of any of the new content that has since come out - that's all fair. There's just this obvious huge blind spot for some people when it comes to this franchise which leads them to believe that there ever was masterpiece storytelling associated with it. The target audience has always been children - by design the plot and characters have always been very basic. With a few exceptions the acting and dialogue have always been subpar.
Taken for what it is, obviously Star Wars can still be enjoyed as an adult. I'm certainly one of those adults - I agree that some stuff has been really good, and I also agree that some stuff has been downright awful. But with regard to Kenobi, I thought that the series was good, and at the very least middling in quality between what's been released over the span of the entire franchise. It also required very little investment (it's just 6 short-ish episodes). Yes, there were plenty of plot holes, but there really wasn't anything more egregious than what's been present in previous projects.
If a Giants fans hated the last 10 years of Giants football, it's kind of silly for them to keep calling themselves Giants fans.
Kinda. . . it depends on how else that person expresses their feelings for the team. If they're only cheering for the Giants when they're frontrunners, constantly obsessing over the George Young years, and stops watching the games before even half the season is completed, then definitely their level of fanhood would be called into question.
- Clone Wars cartoon
- Rogue One
- Mandalorian
The other stuff is forgettable or worse.
- Clone Wars cartoon
- Rogue One
- Mandalorian
The other stuff is forgettable or worse.
Looking at this series it’s callled “Kenobi” but it’s about Leia and Reva. That’s bait and switch and will piss off the fan base (which is 70% male) EVERY time.
They might be able to get away with it if the writing, direction and production were of higher quality. Unfortunately, Kennedy has proven, consistently, she has total disdain for Star Wars, except as a vehicle to push HER agenda ( he comments are part of the public record).
Àlong with giving us an Obi-wan who is a shell of himself (which is NOT what we wanted to see, they give us a static Leia character ( breaking Canon from A New Hope), who is the adult character at 10. The laughable part is Anakin in the prequels, Started as a 10 year old and grew into a character that could become Darth Vader by the 3rd movie. It makes the treatment of Leia a joke. That’s what Drinker is pointing out.
Even Rey started out like a potentially strong character. The problem is, most of the current Disney Star Wars projects feel the need to make all other characters, especially males, bumbling idiots in order to bolster the female character. Rey needed Luke to be grumpy recluse with no redeeming qualities left, Han to die, and Po and Finn to be reduced to comedic relief. And, Kylo to be a petulant baby. Reva needed Obi-wan to be a shell of himself. Even Finnick needed Boba Fett to be a joke.
Then you have Rose. Yes, there was some disgusting backlash by racist "fans". But, more importantly, people were critical of her role, not the character or actress. She started out with great potential and then was reduced to nothing in the final 2 films, not unlike Po and Finn.
Most fans have proven the ability and interest to accept and adore strong female characters. But, we want them to have better stories and to stand on their own. It is perfectly fair to be critical of Reva for being poorly written and acted. It is also a fair criticism that as much or more was invested in Reva's redemption than Obi-wan's (let's not mention that in canon, Obi-wan wasn't in need of a redemption arc). Why? This is a character we just met. The series is literally called Obi-wan. That's who most fans wanted to see.
Me too, I went in hearing it sucked but actually it was above average. There were really good parts to it. My only real dislike was the casting of Han. I just didn't buy it.
What do you think of the controversy surrounding the whiteness of his casts and the idea that he only really portrays white people?
Here’s my take on that: Any filmmaker has the right to create his vision. That’s his vision. That’s how he sees the world. And he has a right to that, just like if Spike Lee does a film, he puts a lot of black folk in it. Everyone is creating from their vision. If Woody sees the world that way, that’s Woody’s world. I don’t trip about that.
That said, he always sets his movies in very diverse cities — New York City, London, San Francisco, Paris. So, watching his movies you can’t help but say: Where are the black people? Where are the Asian people?
(Laughs.) The world is multicultural. But again, everybody has their vision. I just have that attitude about life. Whatever you want to see, you go create it. If that’s his reality, then that’s his reality.
Woody has said that he will only cast a black actor if the role calls for it. What do you think of that?
It’s not for me to judge it. If I’m not happy, it’s for me to create the stories I want to tell. These are his stories.
Do you have any thoughts on diversity in Hollywood today in general? Do you see progress since when you first started? Stagnation?
There seems to be progress. But it’s an ongoing saga that we see in Hollywood, on billboards, on covers of magazines. It’s a white world that we’re looking at many times. What’s always the challenge for actors of color is to stand out. Finding your voice and letting that voice be heard. And that’s the level I really connected with Woody. I had an HBO special at the time and had been writing and performing my own work. I never really bothered myself about what Hollywood was doing. I don’t really have that spirit that just waits on people to pick me. And that’s what’s most important is finding your voice and getting heard rather than getting in the conversation of: “Oh, they’re not casting us.” I hate that conversation. It’s such a victim conversation. Who cares? Go write, create, speak out.
Cookie - ( New Window )
It's never about woke casting. Except it's always about woke casting.
Here's a great question: Why the F have these old fans not moved on?
The original series hasn't even held up well. It was slop. Just about everything that has come since has been slop.
Seems like it'd be easy for grown men to move on from except that Star Wars has become a political battleground for these folks.
It's never about woke casting. Except it's always about woke casting.
Here's a great question: Why the F have these old fans not moved on?
The original series hasn't even held up well. It was slop. Just about everything that has come since has been slop.
Seems like it'd be easy for grown men to move on from except that Star Wars has become a political battleground for these folks.
They are moving on.
The YouTubers are not because that's how they make their money.
Much of base audience - such as myself has abandoned the Franchise - I didn't watch Rise of Skywalker, Solo,, last four episodes of this series. Disney has done the impossible. They ruined Star Wars. It's one of the big contributing factors for their stock falling 50 percent.
"We also had a pretty memorable jaunt around the galaxy when I was 10 and kidnapped by the Empire but no reason to mention that at this point"
Quote:
is like Gamergate to me in that the criticism has become inextricably intertwined with the misogyny and bigotry.
It's never about woke casting. Except it's always about woke casting.
Here's a great question: Why the F have these old fans not moved on?
The original series hasn't even held up well. It was slop. Just about everything that has come since has been slop.
Seems like it'd be easy for grown men to move on from except that Star Wars has become a political battleground for these folks.
They are moving on.
The YouTubers are not because that's how they make their money.
Much of base audience - such as myself has abandoned the Franchise - I didn't watch Rise of Skywalker, Solo,, last four episodes of this series. Disney has done the impossible. They ruined Star Wars. It's one of the big contributing factors for their stock falling 50 percent.
I disagree that the original trilogy did not hold up. The effects are still amazing. The opening scene of A New Hope is still one of the most captivating of all time. That immerses the viewer, especially a young one, in space.
I will say this. If most younger fans are anything like my boys, they are fans because of the original trilogy and NOT the prequels or any newer material. Clone Wars is what kept them fans. The sequels nearly lost them and me. We are hanging on by a thread. The only saving grace right now is Madalorian, which I think they are ruining by keeping Grogu as a focal point.
IMO, more than anything its simply fatigue. You are seeing it with Marvel too - its just too much. Pumping things out will keep many engaged but over time it will result in an inflated perception of interest and valuation.
Disney's problem is going to be new IP, which is generally a problem for anyone in the streaming space. When there's no contracts, users can just leave and come back later if something interesting comes out.
And that's not to say that there's anything wrong with romanticizing the original trilogy, or being critical of any of the new content that has since come out - that's all fair. There's just this obvious huge blind spot for some people when it comes to this franchise which leads them to believe that there ever was masterpiece storytelling associated with it. The target audience has always been children - by design the plot and characters have always been very basic. With a few exceptions the acting and dialogue have always been subpar.
Taken for what it is, obviously Star Wars can still be enjoyed as an adult. I'm certainly one of those adults - I agree that some stuff has been really good, and I also agree that some stuff has been downright awful. But with regard to Kenobi, I thought that the series was good, and at the very least middling in quality between what's been released over the span of the entire franchise. It also required very little investment (it's just 6 short-ish episodes). Yes, there were plenty of plot holes, but there really wasn't anything more egregious than what's been present in previous projects.
And that's not to say that there's anything wrong with romanticizing the original trilogy, or being critical of any of the new content that has since come out - that's all fair. There's just this obvious huge blind spot for some people when it comes to this franchise which leads them to believe that there ever was masterpiece storytelling associated with it. The target audience has always been children - by design the plot and characters have always been very basic. With a few exceptions the acting and dialogue have always been subpar.
Taken for what it is, obviously Star Wars can still be enjoyed as an adult. I'm certainly one of those adults - I agree that some stuff has been really good, and I also agree that some stuff has been downright awful. But with regard to Kenobi, I thought that the series was good, and at the very least middling in quality between what's been released over the span of the entire franchise. It also required very little investment (it's just 6 short-ish episodes). Yes, there were plenty of plot holes, but there really wasn't anything more egregious than what's been present in previous projects.
If a Giants fans hated the last 10 years of Giants football, it's kind of silly for them to keep calling themselves Giants fans.
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is like Gamergate to me in that the criticism has become inextricably intertwined with the misogyny and bigotry.
It's never about woke casting. Except it's always about woke casting.
Here's a great question: Why the F have these old fans not moved on?
The original series hasn't even held up well. It was slop. Just about everything that has come since has been slop.
Seems like it'd be easy for grown men to move on from except that Star Wars has become a political battleground for these folks.
They are moving on.
The YouTubers are not because that's how they make their money.
Much of base audience - such as myself has abandoned the Franchise - I didn't watch Rise of Skywalker, Solo,, last four episodes of this series. Disney has done the impossible. They ruined Star Wars. It's one of the big contributing factors for their stock falling 50 percent.
If, as you say, the only good stuff since the original trilogy is Clone Wars, Rogue One and Mandalorian (and I agree 100%), then can Disney really ruin Star Wars? Or is it time to consider if it's not all that great a "Universe" as it's cracked up to be?
Great stories are part of every culture. Those stories help define who we are as a people. This goes back to the dawn of human history.
When you start deconstructing those stories/folklore/traditions, it doesn't sit well with those who loves those stories.
Star Wars isn't a complicated story. It's characters are not complicated. They are largely based on the heroes arc, going back to a least Greek antiquity.
It's very hard to botch that, but Disney did. Beyond that, as mentioned over and over and over again, the new stories don't make any sense. It's like a first-year film student wrote it with huge plot holes.
So not only does it wreck previous "tradition" but it's simply bad film making.
Great stories are part of every culture. Those stories help define who we are as a people. This goes back to the dawn of human history.
When you start deconstructing those stories/folklore/traditions, it doesn't sit well with those who loves those stories.
Star Wars isn't a complicated story. It's characters are not complicated. They are largely based on the heroes arc, going back to a least Greek antiquity.
It's very hard to botch that, but Disney did. Beyond that, as mentioned over and over and over again, the new stories don't make any sense. It's like a first-year film student wrote it with huge plot holes.
So not only does it wreck previous "tradition" but it's simply bad film making.
I see. What you're saying is that the new stuff from Disney ruined the old stuff for you? That's what you meant? Or perhaps I latched on to the word "ruined" and went the wrong direction. I guess I understand how that can be true for folks. I thought you meant that Disney picked it up and ruined it from there. And I guess my point is that most stuff anyone has tried to add, including by Lucas himself haven't been nearly as good as the OG trilogy. The original trilogy is still great. The shitty prequels didn't ruin it for me. The terrible stuff since hasn't ruined it for me either.
They're still going to make stuff. I hope we start to see something outside of the Empire-Skywalker arc finally. Something that's original, rather than trying to stitch itself into something old that people love.
And that's not to say that there's anything wrong with romanticizing the original trilogy, or being critical of any of the new content that has since come out - that's all fair. There's just this obvious huge blind spot for some people when it comes to this franchise which leads them to believe that there ever was masterpiece storytelling associated with it. The target audience has always been children - by design the plot and characters have always been very basic. With a few exceptions the acting and dialogue have always been subpar.
Taken for what it is, obviously Star Wars can still be enjoyed as an adult. I'm certainly one of those adults - I agree that some stuff has been really good, and I also agree that some stuff has been downright awful. But with regard to Kenobi, I thought that the series was good, and at the very least middling in quality between what's been released over the span of the entire franchise. It also required very little investment (it's just 6 short-ish episodes). Yes, there were plenty of plot holes, but there really wasn't anything more egregious than what's been present in previous projects.
Later on Disney took over. They were very upfront that in the Disney/Star Wars universe only the movies were considered canon. The Lucas era novels and comics were out the window. I think that upset a lot of people, but contrary to a lot of what's said I've found the Mandalorian , Kenobi ( at least the 3 episodes I've seen ) and the Disney era novels to be very consistent with the over all universe.
For my part I've enjoyed Star Wars since it was developed in my 20's. Since then I've enjoyed it with my nephews and niece and I expect to enjoy it with my grand-nephews and nieces. I thought episodes I - VII plus Rouge were among the best entertainment I've seen in my lifetime. XI plus Solo weren't up to that level but were by no means bad. A lot of the criticism I see about Kenobi, the Prequels and Disney seems to be nitpicking.
These are all lacking in Kenobi.
It's really that simple.
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There has now been about 11 films and 6 television series that are considered canon to the Star Wars franchise - if someone only likes 25% of the content, and hates the rest of it, then it's kinda silly for that person to keep considering themself as a "true Star Wars fan". It's a weird phenomenon that seems to only occur with Star Wars as an entertainment medium.
And that's not to say that there's anything wrong with romanticizing the original trilogy, or being critical of any of the new content that has since come out - that's all fair. There's just this obvious huge blind spot for some people when it comes to this franchise which leads them to believe that there ever was masterpiece storytelling associated with it. The target audience has always been children - by design the plot and characters have always been very basic. With a few exceptions the acting and dialogue have always been subpar.
Taken for what it is, obviously Star Wars can still be enjoyed as an adult. I'm certainly one of those adults - I agree that some stuff has been really good, and I also agree that some stuff has been downright awful. But with regard to Kenobi, I thought that the series was good, and at the very least middling in quality between what's been released over the span of the entire franchise. It also required very little investment (it's just 6 short-ish episodes). Yes, there were plenty of plot holes, but there really wasn't anything more egregious than what's been present in previous projects.
Good post ! I remember when the first standalone Star Wars movie came out. The full name of the associated novel was Star Wars from the adventures of Luke Skywalker. At the time it was considered the Wizard of Oz in outer space. As such it became the all time box office champ. A few years later "Empire" came out and Lucas announced that going forward the Star Wars universe would consist of three trilogies and that "Empire Strikes Back" was the middle chapter of the middle trilogy. To the surprise of movie goers of that era "Empire" was a much darker serious story which, of course contained the greatest movie reveal of my generation, possibly of all time. Later on the prequels had a somewhat different tone. The had to. Being prequels not only do we know how they are going to end, but that ending would be unpleasant.
Later on Disney took over. They were very upfront that in the Disney/Star Wars universe only the movies were considered canon. The Lucas era novels and comics were out the window. I think that upset a lot of people, but contrary to a lot of what's said I've found the Mandalorian , Kenobi ( at least the 3 episodes I've seen ) and the Disney era novels to be very consistent with the over all universe.
For my part I've enjoyed Star Wars since it was developed in my 20's. Since then I've enjoyed it with my nephews and niece and I expect to enjoy it with my grand-nephews and nieces. I thought episodes I - VII plus Rouge were among the best entertainment I've seen in my lifetime. XI plus Solo weren't up to that level but were by no means bad. A lot of the criticism I see about Kenobi, the Prequels and Disney seems to be nitpicking.
There are dozens and dozens of other major plot holes, but this is the #1 take-away from the 6-part series.
It also threw into question much of what happened in the original trilogy.
There are dozens and dozens of other major plot holes, but this is the #1 take-away from the 6-part series.
It also threw into question much of what happened in the original trilogy.
One thing the they’ve done in the prequels and the Disney universe which I like is that they have explored the flaws in the Jedi order and their members. Luke and Obi-wan are not one dimensional swashbuckling heroes, but they are men who have done good, but are also haunted by their failures.
The Jedi may have been the guardians of truth and justice but they are also an inflexible cult that separates children from their parents and enforces a strict personal code on their members that many are unable to comply with. In one telling scene Leia asks Ben about his parents. He says with a sense of sadness and regret that he can’t remember much about his mother. It reminded me when Luke and Leia had a similar conversation in VI. At the other end of the spectrum, although the empire is brutal and corrupt there are those who are trying to work with it and others with legitimate grievances that support it. This is touched on in Kenobi and the Mandalorian and explored more deeply in the Disney/Star Wars novels.
Let's talk about the elephant in the room: The Disney/PC/Woke nonsense. Obviously its present here. They could have found a better actress to play Reva. The trope of the angry black woman being disrespected by the older white and Asian superiors is hardly subtle. This is problem throughout Disney. Its dragged down a number of Disney/Pixar movies as well as some Marvel series. This is a problem Disney is going to have to deal with.
That aside, is it a show stopper here ? I don’t think so. The acting in Star Wars has never been at the level one would find in Breaking Bad for example, nor does it have to be. Reva is one of several stiff acting performances we have seen over the years in the Star Wars universe. In the Star Trek universe we had to deal with Wesley and Neelix for years. At least in my opinion it does not take away from the overall experience.
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There has now been about 11 films and 6 television series that are considered canon to the Star Wars franchise - if someone only likes 25% of the content, and hates the rest of it, then it's kinda silly for that person to keep considering themself as a "true Star Wars fan". It's a weird phenomenon that seems to only occur with Star Wars as an entertainment medium.
And that's not to say that there's anything wrong with romanticizing the original trilogy, or being critical of any of the new content that has since come out - that's all fair. There's just this obvious huge blind spot for some people when it comes to this franchise which leads them to believe that there ever was masterpiece storytelling associated with it. The target audience has always been children - by design the plot and characters have always been very basic. With a few exceptions the acting and dialogue have always been subpar.
Taken for what it is, obviously Star Wars can still be enjoyed as an adult. I'm certainly one of those adults - I agree that some stuff has been really good, and I also agree that some stuff has been downright awful. But with regard to Kenobi, I thought that the series was good, and at the very least middling in quality between what's been released over the span of the entire franchise. It also required very little investment (it's just 6 short-ish episodes). Yes, there were plenty of plot holes, but there really wasn't anything more egregious than what's been present in previous projects.
If a Giants fans hated the last 10 years of Giants football, it's kind of silly for them to keep calling themselves Giants fans.
Kinda. . . it depends on how else that person expresses their feelings for the team. If they're only cheering for the Giants when they're frontrunners, constantly obsessing over the George Young years, and stops watching the games before even half the season is completed, then definitely their level of fanhood would be called into question.