She was clearly hobbling by the end. She is 40, 41 in September. I hope she calls it quits after US Open...selfishly because I am going to it this year in Flushing. Helluva career & easily the best women's athlete of my life.
Steffi Graf was a better player, as was Martina, but whatever
Steffi was just as good as Serena. You weren’t going to be more mentally tough than Graf. Martina was a bit before my time.
Steffi had to go through some tough opponents on her way, including Seles who was an all timer too. Serena benefited a bit by early retirement by Clisters, Henin, and Hingis.
Steffi was just as good as Serena. You weren’t going to be more mentally tough than Graf. Martina was a bit before my time.
Steffi had to go through some tough opponents on her way, including Seles who was an all timer too. Serena benefited a bit by early retirement by Clisters, Henin, and Hingis.
I'd argue Serena retired those ladies. Just like Jordan prevented a whole generation of guys from winning rings.
Serena Williams also has the absolutely insane feat of winning the Australian Open while pregnant.
in recent memory, I know she really wants to get to 24 but at this point it just looks like she's too old.
I think Steffi/Martina/Serena all have arguments for the GOAT of women's tennis. I think Serena was the least consistent of the 3 but her A+ game is possibly the best of the 3.
The big "what if" that makes it especially hard to rank Graf is that Seles was racking up Grand Slams and battling Graf for supremacy before she was stabbed. 8 Grand Slams as a teenager for Seles, just insane. A shame what happened to her. She would've likely been the Evert to Graff's Martina.
in recent memory, I know she really wants to get to 24 but at this point it just looks like she's too old.
I think Steffi/Martina/Serena all have arguments for the GOAT of women's tennis. I think Serena was the least consistent of the 3 but her A+ game is possibly the best of the 3.
The big "what if" that makes it especially hard to rank Graf is that Seles was racking up Grand Slams and battling Graf for supremacy before she was stabbed. 8 Grand Slams as a teenager for Seles, just insane. A shame what happened to her. She would've likely been the Evert to Graff's Martina.
Very good post Osi.
RE: Steffi Graf was a better player, as was Martina, but whatever
Serena looked like a 600 lb. hippopotamus moving around the court today. She is finished and needs to leave the stage.
That's a bit over the top, but Serena hasn't been in top shape in a long, long time.
Graf and Martina do get lost in the sauce in the woman's GOAT debate. Graf was an incredible athlete who basically won 22 slams without a quality backhand. I think she would have given Serena fits...
Champions are made of sterner stuff than quitting after one setback.
But I think its Serena. Graf's backhand was meh to say the least. Yes, there is a place for the slice backhand but not to that much use. It was a weakness that she masked with incredible mental toughness.
Karstan Braasch is the Greatest women's player of all time
Hard to compare players In different eras but I’m in the Graf camp. She was a technician in addition to having power. I’ve always felt that Serena won by being bigger and more powerful than the rest of the field. Graf’s slice backhand was a weapon - just ask Federer who mastered the slice to keep folks off balance. Doesn’t really matter who is/was the “best” but I really enjoyed watching Graf. End of another era with Serena and Federer at the end. Great time to follow tennis.
Hard to compare players In different eras but I’m in the Graf camp. She was a technician in addition to having power. I’ve always felt that Serena won by being bigger and more powerful than the rest of the field. Graf’s slice backhand was a weapon - just ask Federer who mastered the slice to keep folks off balance. Doesn’t really matter who is/was the “best” but I really enjoyed watching Graf. End of another era with Serena and Federer at the end. Great time to follow tennis.
I agree that Graf's slice backhand was a weapon in her era. But today's women hit the ball so much harder than the women in Graf's era. So, she would have to develop a much better topspin backhand to deal with strategy to exploit that weaker wing. Henin also had a terrific slice backhand, but she was able to be dominant because she also had a great topspin backhand that could put her opponent on the defensive. And like Graf, she was a terrific athlete.
in recent memory, I know she really wants to get to 24 but at this point it just looks like she's too old.
I think Steffi/Martina/Serena all have arguments for the GOAT of women's tennis. I think Serena was the least consistent of the 3 but her A+ game is possibly the best of the 3.
The big "what if" that makes it especially hard to rank Graf is that Seles was racking up Grand Slams and battling Graf for supremacy before she was stabbed. 8 Grand Slams as a teenager for Seles, just insane. A shame what happened to her. She would've likely been the Evert to Graff's Martina.
Osi agree with everything you said here. And I always thought Graf was underrated, but apparently that's not a good assumption... lol
RE: Steffi Graf was a better player, as was Martina, but whatever
Serena looked like a 600 lb. hippopotamus moving around the court today. She is finished and needs to leave the stage.
I cant stand her either but come on man. 600lb hippo? That's a gross over exaggeration. She didn't look THAT out of shape, she thicc though. You can tell her joints are shot for sure. And her cardio is out of whack. I do agree she should save herself from future embarrassment though. Either train 1000% or retire.
RE: Champions are made of sterner stuff than quitting after one setback.
One setback? She's 40 years old! She's had a tremendous career, but Father Time gets to everyone eventually. I wonder if she'll continue to play doubles with Venus?
Serena is the GOAT. Disappointing to lose like that. Winning more games but losing in sets.
.
That's debatable, she looked like a fat pig out there.
Just retire already, be a mom.
Go be sexist somewhere else, please.
BBI has really gone downhill.
.
Yeah I'm a sexist, maybe I find her an unlikeable individual. If you actually read the thread, I'm not alone
in that thinking, I can assure you.
Yet you’re the one who called her a fat pig. Why is that? Can’t take it that a woman that accomplished has achieved greatness, so you have to degrade her?
You could have said she looked out of shape. You could have said Father Time has caught up to her. You could have said she lost a step and doesn’t have the stamina that she did years ago.
Serena is the GOAT. Disappointing to lose like that. Winning more games but losing in sets.
.
That's debatable, she looked like a fat pig out there.
Just retire already, be a mom.
Go be sexist somewhere else, please.
BBI has really gone downhill.
.
Yeah I'm a sexist, maybe I find her an unlikeable individual. If you actually read the thread, I'm not alone
in that thinking, I can assure you.
Yet you’re the one who called her a fat pig. Why is that? Can’t take it that a woman that accomplished has achieved greatness, so you have to degrade her?
You could have said she looked out of shape. You could have said Father Time has caught up to her. You could have said she lost a step and doesn’t have the stamina that she did years ago.
Serena is the GOAT. Disappointing to lose like that. Winning more games but losing in sets.
.
That's debatable, she looked like a fat pig out there.
Just retire already, be a mom.
Go be sexist somewhere else, please.
BBI has really gone downhill.
.
Yeah I'm a sexist, maybe I find her an unlikeable individual. If you actually read the thread, I'm not alone
in that thinking, I can assure you.
Yet you’re the one who called her a fat pig. Why is that? Can’t take it that a woman that accomplished has achieved greatness, so you have to degrade her?
You could have said she looked out of shape. You could have said Father Time has caught up to her. You could have said she lost a step and doesn’t have the stamina that she did years ago.
Yet you didn’t. You called her a fat pig.
Face it, you’re a sexist piece of shit.
Bravo!
.
Somebody else called her a hippotamus,
guess you're great reading skills missed that one.
James Harden looks like a fat pig too, if that makes you feel any better. Calling somebody a fat pig is not a sexist comment, it's looking at what you see. With her, I don't like her, haven't liked her for years, her results are irrelevant to me, barking up the wrong tree there buddy!
She's a thick girl and has had people ripping her body type for decades at this point. Even stupid fat fucks like Jason Whitlock were spewing shit about her. Hasn't stopped her from being arguably the best ever. I don't particularly like her personality either, she doesn't exactly seem like the nicest or classiest player out there. She's more Djokovic than Nadal/Federer in that sense. But she's still a legend and low hanging fat jokes are just so damn lame when it's been beaten to death over 20 years at this point.
Iga Swiatek taking her win streak to 37. She actually lost a set today which was shocking, but pulled it out. Longest streak in the WTA since 1997 when Martina Hingis also had 37.
but I've been told the game has changed a bit over the last decade or so where height and power has really taken over a bit compared to skill/finesse, for both men and women.
Given the size of the Williams' sisters, it seems to me their greatness is more physical gifts, like being the Lebron Ladies of Tennis, than being skilled technicians of their craft relative to the greats before them.
Can't hold someone's physical dominance against them, but it's always a valid point where skill is supposed to be more revered than physicality.
Steffi had to go through some tough opponents on her way, including Seles who was an all timer too. Serena benefited a bit by early retirement by Clisters, Henin, and Hingis.
Steffi had to go through some tough opponents on her way, including Seles who was an all timer too. Serena benefited a bit by early retirement by Clisters, Henin, and Hingis.
I'd argue Serena retired those ladies. Just like Jordan prevented a whole generation of guys from winning rings.
Serena Williams also has the absolutely insane feat of winning the Australian Open while pregnant.
When you lose to the 90th ranked player, its time to retire
I think Steffi/Martina/Serena all have arguments for the GOAT of women's tennis. I think Serena was the least consistent of the 3 but her A+ game is possibly the best of the 3.
The big "what if" that makes it especially hard to rank Graf is that Seles was racking up Grand Slams and battling Graf for supremacy before she was stabbed. 8 Grand Slams as a teenager for Seles, just insane. A shame what happened to her. She would've likely been the Evert to Graff's Martina.
Hopefully Roger doesn’t have the same fate. I have a feeling he will be competitive but not enough for a GS.
Hopefully Roger doesn’t have the same fate. I have a feeling he will be competitive but not enough for a GS.
Roger has all but said the indoor Swiss tourney this fall will be his last.
I think Steffi/Martina/Serena all have arguments for the GOAT of women's tennis. I think Serena was the least consistent of the 3 but her A+ game is possibly the best of the 3.
The big "what if" that makes it especially hard to rank Graf is that Seles was racking up Grand Slams and battling Graf for supremacy before she was stabbed. 8 Grand Slams as a teenager for Seles, just insane. A shame what happened to her. She would've likely been the Evert to Graff's Martina.
Very good post Osi.
That's a bit over the top, but Serena hasn't been in top shape in a long, long time.
Graf and Martina do get lost in the sauce in the woman's GOAT debate. Graf was an incredible athlete who basically won 22 slams without a quality backhand. I think she would have given Serena fits...
I agree that Graf's slice backhand was a weapon in her era. But today's women hit the ball so much harder than the women in Graf's era. So, she would have to develop a much better topspin backhand to deal with strategy to exploit that weaker wing. Henin also had a terrific slice backhand, but she was able to be dominant because she also had a great topspin backhand that could put her opponent on the defensive. And like Graf, she was a terrific athlete.
I think Steffi/Martina/Serena all have arguments for the GOAT of women's tennis. I think Serena was the least consistent of the 3 but her A+ game is possibly the best of the 3.
The big "what if" that makes it especially hard to rank Graf is that Seles was racking up Grand Slams and battling Graf for supremacy before she was stabbed. 8 Grand Slams as a teenager for Seles, just insane. A shame what happened to her. She would've likely been the Evert to Graff's Martina.
Osi agree with everything you said here. And I always thought Graf was underrated, but apparently that's not a good assumption... lol
I cant stand her either but come on man. 600lb hippo? That's a gross over exaggeration. She didn't look THAT out of shape, she thicc though. You can tell her joints are shot for sure. And her cardio is out of whack. I do agree she should save herself from future embarrassment though. Either train 1000% or retire.
One setback? She's 40 years old! She's had a tremendous career, but Father Time gets to everyone eventually. I wonder if she'll continue to play doubles with Venus?
That's debatable, she looked like a fat pig out there.
Just retire already, be a mom.
Quote:
Serena is the GOAT. Disappointing to lose like that. Winning more games but losing in sets.
.
That's debatable, she looked like a fat pig out there.
Just retire already, be a mom.
Go be sexist somewhere else, please.
BBI has really gone downhill.
Quote:
In comment 15743088 adamg said:
Quote:
Serena is the GOAT. Disappointing to lose like that. Winning more games but losing in sets.
.
That's debatable, she looked like a fat pig out there.
Just retire already, be a mom.
Go be sexist somewhere else, please.
BBI has really gone downhill.
Yeah I'm a sexist, maybe I find her an unlikeable individual. If you actually read the thread, I'm not alone
in that thinking, I can assure you.
Hopefully Roger doesn’t have the same fate. I have a feeling he will be competitive but not enough for a GS.
He should retire as well, not winning another GS title now.
Quote:
In comment 15744533 Carson53 said:
Quote:
In comment 15743088 adamg said:
Quote:
Serena is the GOAT. Disappointing to lose like that. Winning more games but losing in sets.
.
That's debatable, she looked like a fat pig out there.
Just retire already, be a mom.
Go be sexist somewhere else, please.
BBI has really gone downhill.
.
Yeah I'm a sexist, maybe I find her an unlikeable individual. If you actually read the thread, I'm not alone
in that thinking, I can assure you.
Yet you’re the one who called her a fat pig. Why is that? Can’t take it that a woman that accomplished has achieved greatness, so you have to degrade her?
You could have said she looked out of shape. You could have said Father Time has caught up to her. You could have said she lost a step and doesn’t have the stamina that she did years ago.
Yet you didn’t. You called her a fat pig.
Face it, you’re a sexist piece of shit.
Quote:
In comment 15744541 ThreePoints said:
Quote:
In comment 15744533 Carson53 said:
Quote:
In comment 15743088 adamg said:
Quote:
Serena is the GOAT. Disappointing to lose like that. Winning more games but losing in sets.
.
That's debatable, she looked like a fat pig out there.
Just retire already, be a mom.
Go be sexist somewhere else, please.
BBI has really gone downhill.
.
Yeah I'm a sexist, maybe I find her an unlikeable individual. If you actually read the thread, I'm not alone
in that thinking, I can assure you.
Yet you’re the one who called her a fat pig. Why is that? Can’t take it that a woman that accomplished has achieved greatness, so you have to degrade her?
You could have said she looked out of shape. You could have said Father Time has caught up to her. You could have said she lost a step and doesn’t have the stamina that she did years ago.
Yet you didn’t. You called her a fat pig.
Face it, you’re a sexist piece of shit.
Bravo!
Quote:
In comment 15744598 Carson53 said:
Quote:
In comment 15744541 ThreePoints said:
Quote:
In comment 15744533 Carson53 said:
Quote:
In comment 15743088 adamg said:
Quote:
Serena is the GOAT. Disappointing to lose like that. Winning more games but losing in sets.
.
That's debatable, she looked like a fat pig out there.
Just retire already, be a mom.
Go be sexist somewhere else, please.
BBI has really gone downhill.
.
Yeah I'm a sexist, maybe I find her an unlikeable individual. If you actually read the thread, I'm not alone
in that thinking, I can assure you.
Yet you’re the one who called her a fat pig. Why is that? Can’t take it that a woman that accomplished has achieved greatness, so you have to degrade her?
You could have said she looked out of shape. You could have said Father Time has caught up to her. You could have said she lost a step and doesn’t have the stamina that she did years ago.
Yet you didn’t. You called her a fat pig.
Face it, you’re a sexist piece of shit.
Bravo!
Somebody else called her a hippotamus,
guess you're great reading skills missed that one.
James Harden looks like a fat pig too, if that makes you feel any better. Calling somebody a fat pig is not a sexist comment, it's looking at what you see. With her, I don't like her, haven't liked her for years, her results are irrelevant to me, barking up the wrong tree there buddy!
Face it, you're a complete moron, case closed.
Iga Swiatek taking her win streak to 37. She actually lost a set today which was shocking, but pulled it out. Longest streak in the WTA since 1997 when Martina Hingis also had 37.
10 Longest WTA Winning Streaks:
74 - Navratilova (1984)
66 - Graf ('88-'89)
58 - Navratilova (1987)
57 - Court (1972)
55 - Evert (1974)
54 - Navratilova (1983)
46 - Graf (1988)
45 - Graf (1987)
41 - Evert ('75-'76)
41 - Navratilova (1982)
Serena's career-high streak was 34, even Venus at 35 has a longer streak. Something to consider in terms of the GOAT discussion.
Given the size of the Williams' sisters, it seems to me their greatness is more physical gifts, like being the Lebron Ladies of Tennis, than being skilled technicians of their craft relative to the greats before them.
Can't hold someone's physical dominance against them, but it's always a valid point where skill is supposed to be more revered than physicality.
Evert
Navratilova
Graf
S. Williams
And I think you could argue any of the 4 being the GOAT.
I believe that cost here immensely and gave Graf a second wind in the majors. Seles won one slam after the stabbing. Grad won either 7 or 8.
Seles beat Graf 4X in grand slam finals before the stabbing, btw.
He was. And he did it at a tournament in Hamburg, Germany.
On the men's side, my favorite was another lefty in McEnroe. But, it was sur even to watch Borg play.