days but the more i think about it i just dont know about the fit. It would depend what else they do, but it could leave you with no 3 pt shooting. Murray is poor, Mitch is nonexistant, and then you have Randle and RJ. You would really be banking on them being closer to the guy they were last year, but Randle career is nowhere near what he was that year and RJ who knows.
And you would 100% have to be moving Randle. Cant have 4 guys who are at their best with the ball. Especially when one is Randle who thinks he should dominate the ball like Lebron. RJ would go back to just standing around.
ALl that said, i really like Murray so ill talk myself into it working if we make the move.
Averages high teens (call it 17). Will shoot over 60%. Besides rim diving off PNRs, he's got a solid shot from 12-15 and will knock down 75% of FTs. Has been north of 10 in rebounds every year of his career.
Has improved his defense (not saying he's great, but he's statistically a tad better than average).
His playoff stats almost exactly match his in season stats.
Im not the biggest Mitch fan, but if i can get mitch for 12 mill or Ayton for 33 mill i prolly lean Mitch. Better defender, probably similar rebounder, neither are 3 point shooters. Yes Ayton's offensive game is LIGHT YEARS ahead of Mitch, but you lose for mitch for nothing and pay ayton 20 mill more, so he can hit the 12 footer? Ehh, i dont love it.
I think the main selling point for Ayton over Mitch in that context is that Ayton is at least good enough from 12-15 ft that you can’t just ignore him. With Brunson and Barrett, guys that are at their best getting into the paint and attacking the rim, having a center that can somewhat pull the opposing center away from the basket would be a huge deal. Then if the other center collapses to help at the rim, you have the easy drive and kick to Ayton who is actually a threat to hit that shot. Creates a dynamic on offense that they haven’t had with Mitch, Sims or Noel.
that the Knicks may pursue Dejoute Murray even if they get Brunson. That would be pretty amazing. Absolutely love Murrays game. Link - ( New Window )
This would be a really interesting pairing. But the cost seems really high in terms of assets. You'd have to be pretty sure that this was one of the best guys available for you to spend them on.
Averages high teens (call it 17). Will shoot over 60%. Besides rim diving off PNRs, he's got a solid shot from 12-15 and will knock down 75% of FTs. Has been north of 10 in rebounds every year of his career.
Has improved his defense (not saying he's great, but he's statistically a tad better than average).
His playoff stats almost exactly match his in season stats.
Im not the biggest Mitch fan, but if i can get mitch for 12 mill or Ayton for 33 mill i prolly lean Mitch. Better defender, probably similar rebounder, neither are 3 point shooters. Yes Ayton's offensive game is LIGHT YEARS ahead of Mitch, but you lose for mitch for nothing and pay ayton 20 mill more, so he can hit the 12 footer? Ehh, i dont love it.
I think it would be a S&T of Mitch (plus some draft comp) for Ayton and then NYK would be able to exceed the cap to extend Ayton.
Averages high teens (call it 17). Will shoot over 60%. Besides rim diving off PNRs, he's got a solid shot from 12-15 and will knock down 75% of FTs. Has been north of 10 in rebounds every year of his career.
Has improved his defense (not saying he's great, but he's statistically a tad better than average).
His playoff stats almost exactly match his in season stats.
Im not the biggest Mitch fan, but if i can get mitch for 12 mill or Ayton for 33 mill i prolly lean Mitch. Better defender, probably similar rebounder, neither are 3 point shooters. Yes Ayton's offensive game is LIGHT YEARS ahead of Mitch, but you lose for mitch for nothing and pay ayton 20 mill more, so he can hit the 12 footer? Ehh, i dont love it.
There is very little value in the NBA for players like Ayton and Mitch its why there is very little demand.
Modern offenses need floor spacing and 5's that can demand a defender at the 3-point line. Mitch up high gives the defense an easy help situation elsewhere.
It is why I am surprised they are paying him 15 million for 4 years I can see that deal ages well. Everyone is looking for the stretch 5 that can give you good spacing.
And for the few who think Brunson is better than RJ…. You’re going to be very disappointed in results then. Brunson benefited playing next to a top 5 player in the game. It’s different situations but RJ is a much, much better player.
His numbers were better when he was on the court without Luka
Sample size my friend.
Sample size is irrelevant. He still performed with Luka not on the court
and paying the guy 30 mill i want him to be way better then mitch. Not just be able to hit the midrange. I feel like you can find a guy who does that for cheaper. Shit id almost rather sign Portis back then pay Ayton 33 mill.
Averages high teens (call it 17). Will shoot over 60%. Besides rim diving off PNRs, he's got a solid shot from 12-15 and will knock down 75% of FTs. Has been north of 10 in rebounds every year of his career.
Has improved his defense (not saying he's great, but he's statistically a tad better than average).
His playoff stats almost exactly match his in season stats.
Im not the biggest Mitch fan, but if i can get mitch for 12 mill or Ayton for 33 mill i prolly lean Mitch. Better defender, probably similar rebounder, neither are 3 point shooters. Yes Ayton's offensive game is LIGHT YEARS ahead of Mitch, but you lose for mitch for nothing and pay ayton 20 mill more, so he can hit the 12 footer? Ehh, i dont love it.
There is very little value in the NBA for players like Ayton and Mitch its why there is very little demand.
Modern offenses need floor spacing and 5's that can demand a defender at the 3-point line. Mitch up high gives the defense an easy help situation elsewhere.
It is why I am surprised they are paying him 15 million for 4 years I can see that deal ages well. Everyone is looking for the stretch 5 that can give you good spacing.
Not everyone the eastern conference champs have a rim running center..
and the Warriors play either looney or Draymond at center, neither shoot the 3..
Its the make up around your center, if you have a bunch of shooters it works fine, if you have a bunch of slashers who can hit a 3 you need a spacer at the 5..
having said that id rsther the Knicks go for a spacer as currently constructed
It’s absolutely relevant because the numbers he produced without Luka, The numbers would make him close a max player. Much higher than the 24/27.5 AAV being talked about.
But NBA teams see the sample size and adjust accordingly.
Averages high teens (call it 17). Will shoot over 60%. Besides rim diving off PNRs, he's got a solid shot from 12-15 and will knock down 75% of FTs. Has been north of 10 in rebounds every year of his career.
Has improved his defense (not saying he's great, but he's statistically a tad better than average).
His playoff stats almost exactly match his in season stats.
Im not the biggest Mitch fan, but if i can get mitch for 12 mill or Ayton for 33 mill i prolly lean Mitch. Better defender, probably similar rebounder, neither are 3 point shooters. Yes Ayton's offensive game is LIGHT YEARS ahead of Mitch, but you lose for mitch for nothing and pay ayton 20 mill more, so he can hit the 12 footer? Ehh, i dont love it.
There is very little value in the NBA for players like Ayton and Mitch its why there is very little demand.
Modern offenses need floor spacing and 5's that can demand a defender at the 3-point line. Mitch up high gives the defense an easy help situation elsewhere.
It is why I am surprised they are paying him 15 million for 4 years I can see that deal ages well. Everyone is looking for the stretch 5 that can give you good spacing.
I have a hard time grouping Ayton and Mitch as similar. They are not. Ayton has a nice stroke. Comfortably shoots 15 footers in live action. Clearly working on extending his range. Mitch can only dunk as a means of scoring.
RE: All signs point to Randle being on the roster to start the season.
Thibs needs to find a way for both he and Obi to play 30 min a night and about 12 of those where they are on the court at the same time until Randle builds up his trade value.
Agree. They'd be selling low on Randle right now and I don't think this regime is inclined to do that. They'll bet on him having enough of a bounce-back to find a trade partner during the season.
Randle seemed off last season, a different guy from the season before. Not just a different player, a different person. Maybe off-the-court issues, maybe mental health issues, I don't know. I'm hoping it's not as simple as "can't handle playing in front of fans."
center is of course great, but it's not a necessity for a top offense. Three of the top four offenses in the league (Jazz, Hawks, Suns) certainly didn't. As long as the defense needs to account for the center as a rim runner, you can still run an effective offense.
It’s absolutely relevant because the numbers he produced without Luka, The numbers would make him close a max player. Much higher than the 24/27.5 AAV being talked about.
But NBA teams see the sample size and adjust accordingly.
Thank you for making the point for me.
With or without Luka, Brunson is a very good player and as the lead guard could be an even better player potentially.
between Mitch and Ayton is free throw shooting. Mitch has somehow gotten worse each year in the league and his "form" is horrendous. Mitch is a pretty good offensive rebounder and finisher around the rim, but some of that is mitigated by his inabilty to make teams pay when they foul him.
It’s absolutely relevant because the numbers he produced without Luka, The numbers would make him close a max player. Much higher than the 24/27.5 AAV being talked about.
But NBA teams see the sample size and adjust accordingly.
Thank you for making the point for me.
With or without Luka, Brunson is a very good player and as the lead guard could be an even better player potentially.
Thank you for proving you didn’t understand a thing talked about. And I never said he couldn’t play lead guard but it wouldn’t be in the best interest of the Knicks cause they already have a guy who does it better.
center is of course great, but it's not a necessity for a top offense. Three of the top four offenses in the league (Jazz, Hawks, Suns) certainly didn't. As long as the defense needs to account for the center as a rim runner, you can still run an effective offense.
Gobert has been proven ineffective and a hindrance on offense during the playoffs and the Hawks have openly shopped Capela. So those 2 aren’t the best examples.
It’s absolutely relevant because the numbers he produced without Luka, The numbers would make him close a max player. Much higher than the 24/27.5 AAV being talked about.
But NBA teams see the sample size and adjust accordingly.
Thank you for making the point for me.
With or without Luka, Brunson is a very good player and as the lead guard could be an even better player potentially.
Thank you for proving you didn’t understand a thing talked about. And I never said he couldn’t play lead guard but it wouldn’t be in the best interest of the Knicks cause they already have a guy who does it better.
but you arent getting them at anywhere similar cost. To just swap them and pay ayton 20 more isnt that appealing to me. WS is a bit of a weird stat to me, but Mitch was higher and just below in PER. Of course advanced stats have always loved mitch.
RE: Brunson will make Mitch a better offensive player
He is very good at the pick and roll which will make Mitch a better player as well as Sims.
Mitch needs to add some versatility to his offensive game. Some kind of low-post moves, a hook shot, a finger roll... something other than put-backs, layups and alley-oops. He's good at the things he's good at, he's just needs to be good at more things.
If he developed a good-enough 3-point shot to at least make defenders guard him on the perimeter, that would be huge.
center is of course great, but it's not a necessity for a top offense. Three of the top four offenses in the league (Jazz, Hawks, Suns) certainly didn't. As long as the defense needs to account for the center as a rim runner, you can still run an effective offense.
Gobert has been proven ineffective and a hindrance on offense during the playoffs and the Hawks have openly shopped Capela. So those 2 aren’t the best examples.
Slightly more to it than that.
But basically, in other words, you don't believe in math.
It's because you want to see what he can become. His potential is so much higher offensively than Mitch that they are not even comparable really.
And his value has dropped where he might be pretty get-able.
I like Mitch because he is just good at what he does. Good rim protector, good offensive rebounder, improving post defender. His defense gets smarter every year. But he's pretty close to as good as he's gonna be, too. With Ayton, there's still room to grow. The question is why it went south in PHO.
It’s absolutely relevant because the numbers he produced without Luka, The numbers would make him close a max player. Much higher than the 24/27.5 AAV being talked about.
But NBA teams see the sample size and adjust accordingly.
Thank you for making the point for me.
With or without Luka, Brunson is a very good player and as the lead guard could be an even better player potentially.
Thank you for proving you didn’t understand a thing talked about. And I never said he couldn’t play lead guard but it wouldn’t be in the best interest of the Knicks cause they already have a guy who does it better.
this doesn't even make any sense, lol. What team are you even talking about?
center is of course great, but it's not a necessity for a top offense. Three of the top four offenses in the league (Jazz, Hawks, Suns) certainly didn't. As long as the defense needs to account for the center as a rim runner, you can still run an effective offense.
Gobert has been proven ineffective and a hindrance on offense during the playoffs and the Hawks have openly shopped Capela. So those 2 aren’t the best examples.
Slightly more to it than that.
But basically, in other words, you don't believe in math.
I actually believe in playoff results. Try it some time…
center is of course great, but it's not a necessity for a top offense. Three of the top four offenses in the league (Jazz, Hawks, Suns) certainly didn't. As long as the defense needs to account for the center as a rim runner, you can still run an effective offense.
Gobert has been proven ineffective and a hindrance on offense during the playoffs and the Hawks have openly shopped Capela. So those 2 aren’t the best examples.
Slightly more to it than that.
But basically, in other words, you don't believe in math.
I actually believe in playoff results. Try it some time…
try not believing in lazy narratives. You might learn something.
You do realize you advocated all year that RJ should lead the offense? RJ is at his best when he has the ball.
I advocated for Rj to have the ball more on a team that had Alec Burks running the offense..
That doesnt mean he is better than Brunson..
Last year yeah because the Knicks had no one who could get into the paint..
With Brunson i want him running the offense and getting others involved and make Rjs life a lot easier..the ball will be in Rjs hands at times and Brunson is fine off the ball as well
You do realize you advocated all year that RJ should lead the offense? RJ is at his best when he has the ball.
I advocated for Rj to have the ball more on a team that had Alec Burks running the offense..
That doesnt mean he is better than Brunson..
Last year yeah because the Knicks had no one who could get into the paint..
With Brunson i want him running the offense and getting others involved and make Rjs life a lot easier..the ball will be in Rjs hands at times and Brunson is fine off the ball as well
Was surrounded by shooters in Dallas - THJR, Finney, Kleber, Bullock. Perfect for his game.
Coming to the Knicks with JR, RJ, And Mitch - lot of non shooting and lane clogging. Brunson is a better shooter than RJ - will create gaps and opportunities for RJ to drive and kick.
If Brunson signs - his game will be optimize without JR and Mitch. I don’t like the fit with Jalen and those 2.
Brunson is 6'1" and does not have elite quickness or athleticism. Some here seem to think Knicks would be getting a guy who will grow into the next Trae Young. Not happening.
And this entire narrative about his playing better without Doncic is based on the fact that he had two great, high scoring games when Doncic was out in the playoffs. Just really silly.
You do realize you advocated all year that RJ should lead the offense? RJ is at his best when he has the ball.
I advocated for Rj to have the ball more on a team that had Alec Burks running the offense..
That doesnt mean he is better than Brunson..
Last year yeah because the Knicks had no one who could get into the paint..
With Brunson i want him running the offense and getting others involved and make Rjs life a lot easier..the ball will be in Rjs hands at times and Brunson is fine off the ball as well
And it could work that way but not with JR and Mitch. I worry that with a lack of shooting - things would be tougher in the lane for JB than it would be for RJ.
I like JB off the ball more. I guess I’m in the minority here but RJ without the ball is not as effective. Now again there will be enough possessions for both to do their thing, but you don’t want a situation last year where RJ became a spot up guy due to Randles game.
Was surrounded by shooters in Dallas - THJR, Finney, Kleber, Bullock. Perfect for his game.
Coming to the Knicks with JR, RJ, And Mitch - lot of non shooting and lane clogging. Brunson is a better shooter than RJ - will create gaps and opportunities for RJ to drive and kick.
If Brunson signs - his game will be optimize without JR and Mitch. I don’t like the fit with Jalen and those 2.
Brunson is 6'1" and does not have elite quickness or athleticism. Some here seem to think Knicks would be getting a guy who will grow into the next Trae Young. Not happening.
And this entire narrative about his playing better without Doncic is based on the fact that he had two great, high scoring games when Doncic was out in the playoffs. Just really silly.
First off who said he will be Trae Young? show me please
Second its not based on 2 great games, its based on a great playoffs and a great regular season with Doncic on and off the court. Brunson was able to average 5 assists playing next to a guy who always has the ball
Lol. Usually the comeback of someone who doesn’t know shit. But keep thinking the Jazz and Gobert are some kind of offensive juggernauts in the playoffs. Haha
You do realize you advocated all year that RJ should lead the offense? RJ is at his best when he has the ball.
I advocated for Rj to have the ball more on a team that had Alec Burks running the offense..
That doesnt mean he is better than Brunson..
Last year yeah because the Knicks had no one who could get into the paint..
With Brunson i want him running the offense and getting others involved and make Rjs life a lot easier..the ball will be in Rjs hands at times and Brunson is fine off the ball as well
Interesting that Fischer has Mitch's return sounding very likely vs. Katz who has it more open ended in today's piece
I wonder if AJ says about Ayton is true and i have no reason not to believe him, they may have a deal lined up with Mitch in case they cant get Ayton..
If they can, maybe Mitch goes in a sign and trade to phoenix or somewhere else
who are arguing about Brunson or saying they'll be paying him like a star and he's not...
-correct, he is not a star nor do I expect him to be
but, he is:
-tough
-efficient
-smart
-greatly mitigates Randle's inefficiency by providing the team with an actual lead guard
-presence makes it far more likely all the young players achieve success (mainly by virtue to the point about Randle no longer running the offense into the ground)
-fair to expect him to average 17+ points, 7+ assists and captain this young team
This year. Obviously low attempts, but only 23 who can expand to that area if need me. Brook Lopez did it much later in his career. But Ayton’s stroke shows he can be a competent 3 point shooter.
who are arguing about Brunson or saying they'll be paying him like a star and he's not...
-correct, he is not a star nor do I expect him to be
but, he is:
-tough
-efficient
-smart
-greatly mitigates Randle's inefficiency by providing the team with an actual lead guard
-presence makes it far more likely all the young players achieve success (mainly by virtue to the point about Randle no longer running the offense into the ground)
-fair to expect him to average 17+ points, 7+ assists and captain this young team
Paying big money to non-stars is the road to ruin in the NBA.
your telling me we arent getting Trae young mixed with Ja Morant?????
Most knick fans seem to know exactly what Bruson is. An upgrade to what we have, a good but not amazing player. You are hoping he is in his prime kyle lowry. The version that TOR got.
You do realize you advocated all year that RJ should lead the offense? RJ is at his best when he has the ball.
I advocated for Rj to have the ball more on a team that had Alec Burks running the offense..
That doesnt mean he is better than Brunson..
Last year yeah because the Knicks had no one who could get into the paint..
With Brunson i want him running the offense and getting others involved and make Rjs life a lot easier..the ball will be in Rjs hands at times and Brunson is fine off the ball as well
Most knick fans seem to know exactly what Bruson is. An upgrade to what we have, a good but not amazing player. You are hoping he is in his prime kyle lowry. The version that TOR got.
Well put. Gotta have some perspective given the history of the position on this team. And one thing that doesn't show in the stats are this guy's intangibles. He was a hell of a leader and winner in college.
This year. Obviously low attempts, but only 23 who can expand to that area if need me. Brook Lopez did it much later in his career. But Ayton’s stroke shows he can be a competent 3 point shooter.
In Ayton case you just have to be willing to take them when you are open. Pull your defender out of the paint. If he can shoot .250 to .300 from the arc that opens up lanes and makes teams guard you up high.
Mitch doesn't give you that and his defender drops down to take away lanes.
True centers outside of 2 or 3 players are an after thought in the modern NBA.
To be clear the Ayton stuff is just trying to read the tea leaves
No actual smoke yet. But all signs point to them anticipating making another move this summer. They didn’t have to make all those moves to get Brunson and could have waited on moving Noel.
The only two players that seem to be available that are upgrades are Murray and Ayton and I just don’t see Murray happening.
who are arguing about Brunson or saying they'll be paying him like a star and he's not...
-correct, he is not a star nor do I expect him to be
but, he is:
-tough
-efficient
-smart
-greatly mitigates Randle's inefficiency by providing the team with an actual lead guard
-presence makes it far more likely all the young players achieve success (mainly by virtue to the point about Randle no longer running the offense into the ground)
-fair to expect him to average 17+ points, 7+ assists and captain this young team
Paying big money to non-stars is the road to ruin in the NBA.
what big money? he will be the 15th highest paid PG in the NBA
I would absolutely not give him this much money. He is easily replaceable. I'd rather give that money to someone who is more rounded.
And you would 100% have to be moving Randle. Cant have 4 guys who are at their best with the ball. Especially when one is Randle who thinks he should dominate the ball like Lebron. RJ would go back to just standing around.
ALl that said, i really like Murray so ill talk myself into it working if we make the move.
Quote:
Averages high teens (call it 17). Will shoot over 60%. Besides rim diving off PNRs, he's got a solid shot from 12-15 and will knock down 75% of FTs. Has been north of 10 in rebounds every year of his career.
Has improved his defense (not saying he's great, but he's statistically a tad better than average).
His playoff stats almost exactly match his in season stats.
Im not the biggest Mitch fan, but if i can get mitch for 12 mill or Ayton for 33 mill i prolly lean Mitch. Better defender, probably similar rebounder, neither are 3 point shooters. Yes Ayton's offensive game is LIGHT YEARS ahead of Mitch, but you lose for mitch for nothing and pay ayton 20 mill more, so he can hit the 12 footer? Ehh, i dont love it.
I think the main selling point for Ayton over Mitch in that context is that Ayton is at least good enough from 12-15 ft that you can’t just ignore him. With Brunson and Barrett, guys that are at their best getting into the paint and attacking the rim, having a center that can somewhat pull the opposing center away from the basket would be a huge deal. Then if the other center collapses to help at the rim, you have the easy drive and kick to Ayton who is actually a threat to hit that shot. Creates a dynamic on offense that they haven’t had with Mitch, Sims or Noel.
This would be a really interesting pairing. But the cost seems really high in terms of assets. You'd have to be pretty sure that this was one of the best guys available for you to spend them on.
Quote:
Averages high teens (call it 17). Will shoot over 60%. Besides rim diving off PNRs, he's got a solid shot from 12-15 and will knock down 75% of FTs. Has been north of 10 in rebounds every year of his career.
Has improved his defense (not saying he's great, but he's statistically a tad better than average).
His playoff stats almost exactly match his in season stats.
Im not the biggest Mitch fan, but if i can get mitch for 12 mill or Ayton for 33 mill i prolly lean Mitch. Better defender, probably similar rebounder, neither are 3 point shooters. Yes Ayton's offensive game is LIGHT YEARS ahead of Mitch, but you lose for mitch for nothing and pay ayton 20 mill more, so he can hit the 12 footer? Ehh, i dont love it.
I think it would be a S&T of Mitch (plus some draft comp) for Ayton and then NYK would be able to exceed the cap to extend Ayton.
Quote:
Averages high teens (call it 17). Will shoot over 60%. Besides rim diving off PNRs, he's got a solid shot from 12-15 and will knock down 75% of FTs. Has been north of 10 in rebounds every year of his career.
Has improved his defense (not saying he's great, but he's statistically a tad better than average).
His playoff stats almost exactly match his in season stats.
Im not the biggest Mitch fan, but if i can get mitch for 12 mill or Ayton for 33 mill i prolly lean Mitch. Better defender, probably similar rebounder, neither are 3 point shooters. Yes Ayton's offensive game is LIGHT YEARS ahead of Mitch, but you lose for mitch for nothing and pay ayton 20 mill more, so he can hit the 12 footer? Ehh, i dont love it.
There is very little value in the NBA for players like Ayton and Mitch its why there is very little demand.
Modern offenses need floor spacing and 5's that can demand a defender at the 3-point line. Mitch up high gives the defense an easy help situation elsewhere.
It is why I am surprised they are paying him 15 million for 4 years I can see that deal ages well. Everyone is looking for the stretch 5 that can give you good spacing.
Quote:
In comment 15743468 GNewGiants said:
Quote:
Over Mitch. If you can get him, you get him.
And for the few who think Brunson is better than RJ…. You’re going to be very disappointed in results then. Brunson benefited playing next to a top 5 player in the game. It’s different situations but RJ is a much, much better player.
His numbers were better when he was on the court without Luka
Sample size my friend.
Sample size is irrelevant. He still performed with Luka not on the court
Quote:
In comment 15743492 NYG22 said:
Quote:
Averages high teens (call it 17). Will shoot over 60%. Besides rim diving off PNRs, he's got a solid shot from 12-15 and will knock down 75% of FTs. Has been north of 10 in rebounds every year of his career.
Has improved his defense (not saying he's great, but he's statistically a tad better than average).
His playoff stats almost exactly match his in season stats.
Im not the biggest Mitch fan, but if i can get mitch for 12 mill or Ayton for 33 mill i prolly lean Mitch. Better defender, probably similar rebounder, neither are 3 point shooters. Yes Ayton's offensive game is LIGHT YEARS ahead of Mitch, but you lose for mitch for nothing and pay ayton 20 mill more, so he can hit the 12 footer? Ehh, i dont love it.
There is very little value in the NBA for players like Ayton and Mitch its why there is very little demand.
Modern offenses need floor spacing and 5's that can demand a defender at the 3-point line. Mitch up high gives the defense an easy help situation elsewhere.
It is why I am surprised they are paying him 15 million for 4 years I can see that deal ages well. Everyone is looking for the stretch 5 that can give you good spacing.
Not everyone the eastern conference champs have a rim running center..
and the Warriors play either looney or Draymond at center, neither shoot the 3..
Its the make up around your center, if you have a bunch of shooters it works fine, if you have a bunch of slashers who can hit a 3 you need a spacer at the 5..
having said that id rsther the Knicks go for a spacer as currently constructed
It’s absolutely relevant because the numbers he produced without Luka, The numbers would make him close a max player. Much higher than the 24/27.5 AAV being talked about.
But NBA teams see the sample size and adjust accordingly.
Quote:
In comment 15743492 NYG22 said:
Quote:
Averages high teens (call it 17). Will shoot over 60%. Besides rim diving off PNRs, he's got a solid shot from 12-15 and will knock down 75% of FTs. Has been north of 10 in rebounds every year of his career.
Has improved his defense (not saying he's great, but he's statistically a tad better than average).
His playoff stats almost exactly match his in season stats.
Im not the biggest Mitch fan, but if i can get mitch for 12 mill or Ayton for 33 mill i prolly lean Mitch. Better defender, probably similar rebounder, neither are 3 point shooters. Yes Ayton's offensive game is LIGHT YEARS ahead of Mitch, but you lose for mitch for nothing and pay ayton 20 mill more, so he can hit the 12 footer? Ehh, i dont love it.
There is very little value in the NBA for players like Ayton and Mitch its why there is very little demand.
Modern offenses need floor spacing and 5's that can demand a defender at the 3-point line. Mitch up high gives the defense an easy help situation elsewhere.
It is why I am surprised they are paying him 15 million for 4 years I can see that deal ages well. Everyone is looking for the stretch 5 that can give you good spacing.
I have a hard time grouping Ayton and Mitch as similar. They are not. Ayton has a nice stroke. Comfortably shoots 15 footers in live action. Clearly working on extending his range. Mitch can only dunk as a means of scoring.
Randle seemed off last season, a different guy from the season before. Not just a different player, a different person. Maybe off-the-court issues, maybe mental health issues, I don't know. I'm hoping it's not as simple as "can't handle playing in front of fans."
It’s absolutely relevant because the numbers he produced without Luka, The numbers would make him close a max player. Much higher than the 24/27.5 AAV being talked about.
But NBA teams see the sample size and adjust accordingly.
Thank you for making the point for me.
With or without Luka, Brunson is a very good player and as the lead guard could be an even better player potentially.
Quote:
Ok.
It’s absolutely relevant because the numbers he produced without Luka, The numbers would make him close a max player. Much higher than the 24/27.5 AAV being talked about.
But NBA teams see the sample size and adjust accordingly.
Thank you for making the point for me.
With or without Luka, Brunson is a very good player and as the lead guard could be an even better player potentially.
Thank you for proving you didn’t understand a thing talked about. And I never said he couldn’t play lead guard but it wouldn’t be in the best interest of the Knicks cause they already have a guy who does it better.
Gobert has been proven ineffective and a hindrance on offense during the playoffs and the Hawks have openly shopped Capela. So those 2 aren’t the best examples.
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In comment 15743519 GNewGiants said:
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Ok.
It’s absolutely relevant because the numbers he produced without Luka, The numbers would make him close a max player. Much higher than the 24/27.5 AAV being talked about.
But NBA teams see the sample size and adjust accordingly.
Thank you for making the point for me.
With or without Luka, Brunson is a very good player and as the lead guard could be an even better player potentially.
Thank you for proving you didn’t understand a thing talked about. And I never said he couldn’t play lead guard but it wouldn’t be in the best interest of the Knicks cause they already have a guy who does it better.
Rj plays a better lead guard? since when?
If he developed a good-enough 3-point shot to at least make defenders guard him on the perimeter, that would be huge.
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center is of course great, but it's not a necessity for a top offense. Three of the top four offenses in the league (Jazz, Hawks, Suns) certainly didn't. As long as the defense needs to account for the center as a rim runner, you can still run an effective offense.
Gobert has been proven ineffective and a hindrance on offense during the playoffs and the Hawks have openly shopped Capela. So those 2 aren’t the best examples.
Slightly more to it than that.
But basically, in other words, you don't believe in math.
And his value has dropped where he might be pretty get-able.
I like Mitch because he is just good at what he does. Good rim protector, good offensive rebounder, improving post defender. His defense gets smarter every year. But he's pretty close to as good as he's gonna be, too. With Ayton, there's still room to grow. The question is why it went south in PHO.
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In comment 15743519 GNewGiants said:
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Ok.
It’s absolutely relevant because the numbers he produced without Luka, The numbers would make him close a max player. Much higher than the 24/27.5 AAV being talked about.
But NBA teams see the sample size and adjust accordingly.
Thank you for making the point for me.
With or without Luka, Brunson is a very good player and as the lead guard could be an even better player potentially.
Thank you for proving you didn’t understand a thing talked about. And I never said he couldn’t play lead guard but it wouldn’t be in the best interest of the Knicks cause they already have a guy who does it better.
this doesn't even make any sense, lol. What team are you even talking about?
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In comment 15743525 Enzo said:
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center is of course great, but it's not a necessity for a top offense. Three of the top four offenses in the league (Jazz, Hawks, Suns) certainly didn't. As long as the defense needs to account for the center as a rim runner, you can still run an effective offense.
Gobert has been proven ineffective and a hindrance on offense during the playoffs and the Hawks have openly shopped Capela. So those 2 aren’t the best examples.
Slightly more to it than that.
But basically, in other words, you don't believe in math.
I actually believe in playoff results. Try it some time…
this doesn't even make any sense, lol. What team are you even talking about?
Step away from the computer - once actual basketball talk gets involved - you get highly confused. It’s ok. Not meant for everyone.
Rj plays a better lead guard? since when?
You do realize you advocated all year that RJ should lead the offense? RJ is at his best when he has the ball.
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In comment 15743533 GNewGiants said:
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In comment 15743525 Enzo said:
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center is of course great, but it's not a necessity for a top offense. Three of the top four offenses in the league (Jazz, Hawks, Suns) certainly didn't. As long as the defense needs to account for the center as a rim runner, you can still run an effective offense.
Gobert has been proven ineffective and a hindrance on offense during the playoffs and the Hawks have openly shopped Capela. So those 2 aren’t the best examples.
Slightly more to it than that.
But basically, in other words, you don't believe in math.
I actually believe in playoff results. Try it some time…
try not believing in lazy narratives. You might learn something.
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In comment 15743531 GNewGiants said
Rj plays a better lead guard? since when?
You do realize you advocated all year that RJ should lead the offense? RJ is at his best when he has the ball.
I advocated for Rj to have the ball more on a team that had Alec Burks running the offense..
That doesnt mean he is better than Brunson..
Last year yeah because the Knicks had no one who could get into the paint..
With Brunson i want him running the offense and getting others involved and make Rjs life a lot easier..the ball will be in Rjs hands at times and Brunson is fine off the ball as well
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In comment 15743534 nygiants16 said:
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In comment 15743531 GNewGiants said
Rj plays a better lead guard? since when?
You do realize you advocated all year that RJ should lead the offense? RJ is at his best when he has the ball.
I advocated for Rj to have the ball more on a team that had Alec Burks running the offense..
That doesnt mean he is better than Brunson..
Last year yeah because the Knicks had no one who could get into the paint..
With Brunson i want him running the offense and getting others involved and make Rjs life a lot easier..the ball will be in Rjs hands at times and Brunson is fine off the ball as well
just ignore the troll.
Coming to the Knicks with JR, RJ, And Mitch - lot of non shooting and lane clogging. Brunson is a better shooter than RJ - will create gaps and opportunities for RJ to drive and kick.
If Brunson signs - his game will be optimize without JR and Mitch. I don’t like the fit with Jalen and those 2.
Brunson is 6'1" and does not have elite quickness or athleticism. Some here seem to think Knicks would be getting a guy who will grow into the next Trae Young. Not happening.
And this entire narrative about his playing better without Doncic is based on the fact that he had two great, high scoring games when Doncic was out in the playoffs. Just really silly.
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In comment 15743534 nygiants16 said:
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In comment 15743531 GNewGiants said
Rj plays a better lead guard? since when?
You do realize you advocated all year that RJ should lead the offense? RJ is at his best when he has the ball.
I advocated for Rj to have the ball more on a team that had Alec Burks running the offense..
That doesnt mean he is better than Brunson..
Last year yeah because the Knicks had no one who could get into the paint..
With Brunson i want him running the offense and getting others involved and make Rjs life a lot easier..the ball will be in Rjs hands at times and Brunson is fine off the ball as well
And it could work that way but not with JR and Mitch. I worry that with a lack of shooting - things would be tougher in the lane for JB than it would be for RJ.
I like JB off the ball more. I guess I’m in the minority here but RJ without the ball is not as effective. Now again there will be enough possessions for both to do their thing, but you don’t want a situation last year where RJ became a spot up guy due to Randles game.
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Was surrounded by shooters in Dallas - THJR, Finney, Kleber, Bullock. Perfect for his game.
Coming to the Knicks with JR, RJ, And Mitch - lot of non shooting and lane clogging. Brunson is a better shooter than RJ - will create gaps and opportunities for RJ to drive and kick.
If Brunson signs - his game will be optimize without JR and Mitch. I don’t like the fit with Jalen and those 2.
Brunson is 6'1" and does not have elite quickness or athleticism. Some here seem to think Knicks would be getting a guy who will grow into the next Trae Young. Not happening.
And this entire narrative about his playing better without Doncic is based on the fact that he had two great, high scoring games when Doncic was out in the playoffs. Just really silly.
First off who said he will be Trae Young? show me please
Second its not based on 2 great games, its based on a great playoffs and a great regular season with Doncic on and off the court. Brunson was able to average 5 assists playing next to a guy who always has the ball
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In comment 15743547 GNewGiants said:
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In comment 15743534 nygiants16 said:
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In comment 15743531 GNewGiants said
Rj plays a better lead guard? since when?
You do realize you advocated all year that RJ should lead the offense? RJ is at his best when he has the ball.
I advocated for Rj to have the ball more on a team that had Alec Burks running the offense..
That doesnt mean he is better than Brunson..
Last year yeah because the Knicks had no one who could get into the paint..
With Brunson i want him running the offense and getting others involved and make Rjs life a lot easier..the ball will be in Rjs hands at times and Brunson is fine off the ball as well
just ignore the troll.
not a troll, just dep back from the grave.
I wonder if AJ says about Ayton is true and i have no reason not to believe him, they may have a deal lined up with Mitch in case they cant get Ayton..
If they can, maybe Mitch goes in a sign and trade to phoenix or somewhere else
-correct, he is not a star nor do I expect him to be
but, he is:
-tough
-efficient
-smart
-greatly mitigates Randle's inefficiency by providing the team with an actual lead guard
-presence makes it far more likely all the young players achieve success (mainly by virtue to the point about Randle no longer running the offense into the ground)
-fair to expect him to average 17+ points, 7+ assists and captain this young team
I advocated for Rj to have the ball more on a team that had Alec Burks running the offense..
I think we can all agree on that. Getting rid of Burks is a huge plus, given the way Thibs used him.
-correct, he is not a star nor do I expect him to be
but, he is:
-tough
-efficient
-smart
-greatly mitigates Randle's inefficiency by providing the team with an actual lead guard
-presence makes it far more likely all the young players achieve success (mainly by virtue to the point about Randle no longer running the offense into the ground)
-fair to expect him to average 17+ points, 7+ assists and captain this young team
Paying big money to non-stars is the road to ruin in the NBA.
Most knick fans seem to know exactly what Bruson is. An upgrade to what we have, a good but not amazing player. You are hoping he is in his prime kyle lowry. The version that TOR got.
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In comment 15743552 nygiants16 said:
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In comment 15743547 GNewGiants said:
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In comment 15743534 nygiants16 said:
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In comment 15743531 GNewGiants said
Rj plays a better lead guard? since when?
You do realize you advocated all year that RJ should lead the offense? RJ is at his best when he has the ball.
I advocated for Rj to have the ball more on a team that had Alec Burks running the offense..
That doesnt mean he is better than Brunson..
Last year yeah because the Knicks had no one who could get into the paint..
With Brunson i want him running the offense and getting others involved and make Rjs life a lot easier..the ball will be in Rjs hands at times and Brunson is fine off the ball as well
just ignore the troll.
not a troll, just dep back from the grave.
Is that really who it is?
Well put. Gotta have some perspective given the history of the position on this team. And one thing that doesn't show in the stats are this guy's intangibles. He was a hell of a leader and winner in college.
Is that really who it is?
No. Sorry to disappoint.
In Ayton case you just have to be willing to take them when you are open. Pull your defender out of the paint. If he can shoot .250 to .300 from the arc that opens up lanes and makes teams guard you up high.
Mitch doesn't give you that and his defender drops down to take away lanes.
True centers outside of 2 or 3 players are an after thought in the modern NBA.
The only two players that seem to be available that are upgrades are Murray and Ayton and I just don’t see Murray happening.
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who are arguing about Brunson or saying they'll be paying him like a star and he's not...
-correct, he is not a star nor do I expect him to be
but, he is:
-tough
-efficient
-smart
-greatly mitigates Randle's inefficiency by providing the team with an actual lead guard
-presence makes it far more likely all the young players achieve success (mainly by virtue to the point about Randle no longer running the offense into the ground)
-fair to expect him to average 17+ points, 7+ assists and captain this young team
Paying big money to non-stars is the road to ruin in the NBA.
what big money? he will be the 15th highest paid PG in the NBA