Trying to consolidate the threads. Lots of speculation on those threads but the more solid stuff is:
-Expectation is Brunson will sign with the Knicks on a 4/110 mill deal.
-Mitch rumored to be around 4/60 but there seems to be a lot of debate on that
-Knicks have about 30 mill available but can get to around 37 easily.
To be clear the Ayton stuff is just trying to read the tea leaves
ajr2456 : 11:58 am : link : reply
No actual smoke yet. But all signs point to them anticipating making another move this summer. They didn’t have to make all those moves to get Brunson and could have waited on moving Noel.
The only two players that seem to be available that are upgrades are Murray and Ayton and I just don’t see Murray happening.
I think it is Brunson and they will make a trade for an All Star player, no idea who that player is, but Donovan Mitchell will be tough because of Danny Ainge.
@Bill Simmons
If the Lakers offered Westbrook’s 47m expiring and a 2027 top-3 protected 1st for Randle, Fournier and Rose ($56m combined just in 2023), what would the Knicks say?
@Bill Simmons
If the Lakers offered Westbrook’s 47m expiring and a 2027 top-3 protected 1st for Randle, Fournier and Rose ($56m combined just in 2023), what would the Knicks say?
I saw that. My response would be, what are the protections after 2027? If there are none then I would do that.
Brunson was the first and i think more is coming at the 2..
Honestly would be a pretty good deal for LA. Randle, Fournier and Rose are 3 players who are probably more valuable on the court then Russ is these days.
Agree! I was thinking about this yesterday. If you offer a first with a bunch of protections, you shouldn't get a 2nd, you should get a 1st with no protections if it runs out.
Nothing is 100% until its done. And you gotta have a plan B.
Big problem with Knicks over the last 25 years is they never had a plan B.
Jake Fischer
@JakeLFischer
·
1m
Word starting to circle around NBA front offices of a potential increase in the 2022-23 salary cap. Multiple teams have indicated the cap could raise as high as 10%, from a projected $122 million.
Nothing is 100% until its done. And you gotta have a plan B.
Big problem with Knicks over the last 25 years is they never had a plan B.
I'm thinking it's because they're going to structure the contract with descending value. Helps them maintain some flexibility moving forward
What kind of a move are you going to make with 3-10 million in cap space?
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The extra space is for flexibility for the next move. The assets, the space and these trades are all in anticipation of another potential move.
What kind of a move are you going to make with 3-10 million in cap space?
The offseason just started. There is a lot they can do. The order in which they make moves is important too.
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The extra space is for flexibility for the next move. The assets, the space and these trades are all in anticipation of another potential move.
What kind of a move are you going to make with 3-10 million in cap space?
Could also be for a trade where you're sending out less salary than you're getting in return like for example Reddish and McBride + picks for Murray
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The extra space is for flexibility for the next move. The assets, the space and these trades are all in anticipation of another potential move.
What kind of a move are you going to make with 3-10 million in cap space?
it gives you more flexibility in a big trade, you dont have to send out 4 players to match 1
@JakeLFischer
Word starting to circle around NBA front offices of a potential increase in the 2022-23 salary cap. Multiple teams have indicated the cap could raise as high as 10%, from a projected $122 million.
@JakeLFischer
Word starting to circle around NBA front offices of a potential increase in the 2022-23 salary cap. Multiple teams have indicated the cap could raise as high as 10%, from a projected $122 million.
Now that makes sense
@TimBontemps
·
2m
The NBA's salary cap for the 2022-23 season is projected to come in at roughly $123.6 million, sources told ESPN. That is an $11.6 million increase from last year's salary cap figure of $112 million.
@TimBontemps
·
2m
The NBA's salary cap for the 2022-23 season is projected to come in at roughly $123.6 million, sources told ESPN. That is an $11.6 million increase from last year's salary cap figure of $112 million.
So Knicms have around 38 if they release taj rather than around 36
@Bill Simmons
If the Lakers offered Westbrook’s 47m expiring and a 2027 top-3 protected 1st for Randle, Fournier and Rose ($56m combined just in 2023), what would the Knicks say?
That’s a pretty good trade for the lakers to be honest. What other options do they have to actually improve that roster? This gives them 3 legit starters.
I’d prefer to keep Rose but I would think long and hard about this for the Knicks.
Keith Smith
@KeithSmithNBA
·
13h
I bet when we get the final, actual details of Jalen Brunson’s deal with the Knicks, it will look more team-friendly than it does as 4/$110M. That’s been the history of the last few years with the contracts New York has given out.
Keith Smith
@KeithSmithNBA
·
13h
I bet when we get the final, actual details of Jalen Brunson’s deal with the Knicks, it will look more team-friendly than it does as 4/$110M. That’s been the history of the last few years with the contracts New York has given out.
I hope so but I think this might be different because the past deals we were bidding against ourselves.
Cuban is not stupid and will combat any garbage.
Unless it's a 4th year team option or a descending contract starting at 30 million. It's all nickle and dime stuff
Shooting: By virtue of ONLY shooting via alley-oop or put-back dunk, Mitch has a FG % that is nearly unprecedented at 72%. That being said, his unwillingness to shoot outside of a foot and inability to hit a FT (54%) is a killer. Mo Bamba has worked hard on develop a 3 ball and is now roughly league average (35%). He also hits FTs at almost an acceptable rate (69%).
Defense: Both have great length and use it well with block stats of roughly 3 per 36 minutes.
Rebounding: Slight edge to Bamba.
Slight athleticism edge to Mitch. Slight size advantage to Bamba.
Looking forward, I like Bamba a bit better because Mitch is is so injury prone. Other than long term COVID, Bamba has a bit better durability. I also like his work rate off the court in terms of expected development.
Shooting: By virtue of ONLY shooting via alley-oop or put-back dunk, Mitch has a FG % that is nearly unprecedented at 72%. That being said, his unwillingness to shoot outside of a foot and inability to hit a FT (54%) is a killer. Mo Bamba has worked hard on develop a 3 ball and is now roughly league average (35%). He also hits FTs at almost an acceptable rate (69%).
Defense: Both have great length and use it well with block stats of roughly 3 per 36 minutes.
Rebounding: Slight edge to Bamba.
Slight athleticism edge to Mitch. Slight size advantage to Bamba.
Looking forward, I like Bamba a bit better because Mitch is is so injury prone. Other than long term COVID, Bamba has a bit better durability. I also like his work rate off the court in terms of expected development.
Bamba now a UFA.
I've seen this concept thrown around in the past
How would you structure the deal?
I ask because the difference between Robinson's and Ayton's value seems much smaller than the difference between their rumored paychecks. Ayton just does not seem likely to me I guess.
Shooting: By virtue of ONLY shooting via alley-oop or put-back dunk, Mitch has a FG % that is nearly unprecedented at 72%. That being said, his unwillingness to shoot outside of a foot and inability to hit a FT (54%) is a killer. Mo Bamba has worked hard on develop a 3 ball and is now roughly league average (35%). He also hits FTs at almost an acceptable rate (69%).
Defense: Both have great length and use it well with block stats of roughly 3 per 36 minutes.
Rebounding: Slight edge to Bamba.
Slight athleticism edge to Mitch. Slight size advantage to Bamba.
Looking forward, I like Bamba a bit better because Mitch is is so injury prone. Other than long term COVID, Bamba has a bit better durability. I also like his work rate off the court in terms of expected development.
Most projections on Bamba are MLE 10.2 to 13 Millon per 3 for 36.
He has a more complete game then Mitch.
Hopefully Mitch is more in the 10-12 million range but I would rather have Bamba for the free throw and 3 point shooting
does he have any kind of track record?
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.
does he have any kind of track record?
Yes. He’s legit
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or at least the John Wall treatment where he stays at home all year, ha. I dont want him anywhere near the team. But we can clear a lot of future salary with this and get a pick.
@Bill Simmons
If the Lakers offered Westbrook’s 47m expiring and a 2027 top-3 protected 1st for Randle, Fournier and Rose ($56m combined just in 2023), what would the Knicks say?
That’s a pretty good trade for the lakers to be honest. What other options do they have to actually improve that roster? This gives them 3 legit starters.
I’d prefer to keep Rose but I would think long and hard about this for the Knicks.
Agree. That's doing a huge favor for LA. I don't see Rose and Fournier as albatross contracts. And if Randle can get his head right, his deal goes from bad to ok real quick. Reminds me of when Walsh was desperate to clear room for 2010 and he just gave away good players.
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In comment 15743620 Italianju said:
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or at least the John Wall treatment where he stays at home all year, ha. I dont want him anywhere near the team. But we can clear a lot of future salary with this and get a pick.
@Bill Simmons
If the Lakers offered Westbrook’s 47m expiring and a 2027 top-3 protected 1st for Randle, Fournier and Rose ($56m combined just in 2023), what would the Knicks say?
That’s a pretty good trade for the lakers to be honest. What other options do they have to actually improve that roster? This gives them 3 legit starters.
I’d prefer to keep Rose but I would think long and hard about this for the Knicks.
Agree. That's doing a huge favor for LA. I don't see Rose and Fournier as albatross contracts. And if Randle can get his head right, his deal goes from bad to ok real quick. Reminds me of when Walsh was desperate to clear room for 2010 and he just gave away good players.
Can Lakers offer any more picks now? Definitely not enough. It'd have to be completed unprotected.
I would love to see Knicks get Mo Bamba.
Now that's a guy with upside.
Totally agree.
You can always move one later.
Right now, Knicks should hold onto all the players in their early twenties. They need to increase overall talent level on team. Worry about fit later when they are actually good.
Yup.
And ultimately Cuban can make a bigger offer if he decides to keep Brunson.
They're paying Spencer Dinwiddie 20 million a year at PG as well.
I don't think they can afford it.
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I think the Knicks are clearing for Brunson, because I agree Cuban will make a final push.
Yup.
And ultimately Cuban can make a bigger offer if he decides to keep Brunson.
Would it really surprise anyone if the Knicks get left at the alter again? I’m actually completely expecting it.
This would be super interesting. Murray is an absolute stud. At that point you would think that getting a shooter at the 2 would be the priority over Brunson but it looks like they want both which I don't know how that works.
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Knicks have in fact spoken to the Spurs about Murray
This would be super interesting. Murray is an absolute stud. At that point you would think that getting a shooter at the 2 would be the priority over Brunson but it looks like they want both which I don't know how that works.
Brunson as FA and Murray in S and T
Mitch is a useless player? He absolutely dominated several games last year.
Mitch and Mo entered the league at the same time. Mitch has played in more games. Mo Bamba is not more durable than Mitch.
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In comment 15743667 Pete44 said:
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I think the Knicks are clearing for Brunson, because I agree Cuban will make a final push.
Yup.
And ultimately Cuban can make a bigger offer if he decides to keep Brunson.
Would it really surprise anyone if the Knicks get left at the alter again? I’m actually completely expecting it.
If the back up plan is Collin Sexton and Murray, would you be disappointed.
@SBondyNYDN
·
3m
A source confirmed the Knicks have expressed interest in acquiring Dejounte Murray from the Spurs, as @TheSteinLine
and @IanBegley
reported.
How about something like this with picks going from NY to SA and a 1st from LA to SA. They buy out Westbrook and get off the money next year
Link - ( New Window )
For me its the draft compensation and if they can get Randle out of here..
If you do a deal you are going to bave Brunson, Murray and Rj all capable kf running the offense and getting into the lane, how does Randle fit with that when all he wants to do is control the offense?
He got butthurt last year when he wasnt controlling the offense and thats part of why Kemba, Fournier, Rj didnt work...Randle controlled everythkng rather than letting those guys cook
His father is a coach on the team and his former agent is the GM. If they can't tamper properly with that advantage, just hang it up, as you're totally fucked as a franchise.
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Rose and Cam for Murray? with draft compensation obviously
How about something like this with picks going from NY to SA and a 1st from LA to SA. They buy out Westbrook and get off the money next year Link - ( New Window )
the return of McBuckets!! I like it for us - depending on the picks obviously. Reddish doesn't do much for LA (unless he's just in there for cap reasons)? For anyone getting Murray, you're almost committing to paying him a huge deal in 2 years.
is this interest legit or is it just hey ill call and see
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Isn’t going to end up getting traded for four 1sts
is this interest legit or is it just hey ill call and see
It’s legit interest but the price is still too high for them
Murray makes sense and Brunson looked good playing off ball.
Murray is a defense/ pass first PG.
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Mitch at any price tag to be honest. He is always hurt and really is kind of a useless player especially at that price tag. Would much rather see Mo Bamba for cheaper at this point.
Mitch is a useless player? He absolutely dominated several games last year.
Can't shoot, can't stretch the defense to the perimeter, terrible FT shooter. There is absolutely no reason to pay that type of player anywhere near even $10 million a season. Just my opinion. Waste of precious capital. Would rather pay Bamba and get a rotational 2 with the remaining money.
Thibs has an offense?
He should read Macri’s newsletter from this morning. Lays out a pretty compelling case for why Brunson is the perfect fit in the pick and roll heavy offense that Thibs likes to run, but hasn’t had the personnel for in NY.
Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn
·
38s
Washington Wizards star Bradley Beal has declined his $36.4M option and become a free agent, his agent Mark Bartelstein of
@PrioritySports
tells ESPN. Beal is eligible to sign a 5-year max to return to Wizards – or sign elsewhere on a 4-year deal.
@TheSteinLine
·
16s
Momentum is building toward an imminent Dejounte Murray trade, league sources say. Known suitors are the Hawks, Knicks and Timberwolves.
This is probably Beal's last big deal he is going to go with the home team max. He is 30 years old and is on the 10 yr max contract
5yrs 250 million or 4 years 180 from another team
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In comment 15743667 Pete44 said:
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I think the Knicks are clearing for Brunson, because I agree Cuban will make a final push.
Yup.
And ultimately Cuban can make a bigger offer if he decides to keep Brunson.
Would it really surprise anyone if the Knicks get left at the alter again? I’m actually completely expecting it.
I need to prepare for this. I can’t help but feel hopeful I’m such a sucker.
That said i will talk myself into him having a few more good years in him and he will stay healthy if we sign him, ha!!
@TheSteinLine
·
16s
Momentum is building toward an imminent Dejounte Murray trade, league sources say. Known suitors are the Hawks, Knicks and Timberwolves.
Interesting Knicks interest leaked and now being reported a trade is imminent
I'm not a big Beal fan. I think he's tremendously overrated and has had some injury issues in recent years. If I was the Wizards I'd be scared shitless of giving him a $50M/year deal for the next 5 years, especially after what happened when they did that with Wall
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Marc Stein
@TheSteinLine
·
16s
Momentum is building toward an imminent Dejounte Murray trade, league sources say. Known suitors are the Hawks, Knicks and Timberwolves.
Interesting Knicks interest leaked and now being reported a trade is imminent
We're probably just being used for leverage
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And trying to convince Beal to come to NY would be ideal, no?
I'm not a big Beal fan. I think he's tremendously overrated and has had some injury issues in recent years. If I was the Wizards I'd be scared shitless of giving him a $50M/year deal for the next 5 years, especially after what happened when they did that with Wall
This is the wrong time to get cold feet with Beal the fire was hottest to move him last year after back to back 30 point seasons. They are in it now but I agree I think the last 2 years of that deal will feel like Westbrook deal now.
Of course. The only thing missing from Murray's pic yesterday was him wearing a Knicks hat.
Im perfectly fine with the FO setting a value on the player and sticking to it. If the Hawks trade 4 or 3 with no protections or whatever then so be it.
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In comment 15743896 Doubledeuce22 said:
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And trying to convince Beal to come to NY would be ideal, no?
I'm not a big Beal fan. I think he's tremendously overrated and has had some injury issues in recent years. If I was the Wizards I'd be scared shitless of giving him a $50M/year deal for the next 5 years, especially after what happened when they did that with Wall
This is the wrong time to get cold feet with Beal the fire was hottest to move him last year after back to back 30 point seasons. They are in it now but I agree I think the last 2 years of that deal will feel like Westbrook deal now.
I asked this before but I don't think it was answered. Did Beal have a no trade clause? I could have sworn he was adamant about staying in Washington.
What's the salary match for Murray I don't think they want Fournier.
Rose and Grimes plus picks?
No reason not to opt out either way he is getting 40 million this year somewhere, Washington and do a sign and trade to get someone under the cap for the 250
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mess around. And, FWIW, he's traditionally been pretty plugged in with the Knicks.
What's the salary match for Murray I don't think they want Fournier.
Rose and Grimes plus picks?
could be. Could be they trade him into cap space if the Brunson transaction becomes a sign-and-trade involving Detroit. Or a potential Murray trade could even involve the already agreed to Detroit trade. None of these moves are "final". Knicks could operate as an over the cap team or under the cap. Lots of moving parts....
248 over 5 from the Wizards, 4 for 184 from anybody else. He'd be pretty loco to pass on 64 million more guaranteed.
He’s a proven winner (two-time NCAA champion) and a dependable personality, which is significant for a franchise that seems perpetually unstable. Brunson provides something the Knicks backcourt has sorely missed – a facilitator and playmaker who can create shots for himself and thrive with ball screens.
His defense is suspect, however. Opposing teams often targeted Brunson, who isn’t an elite athlete, which makes a backcourt with Evan Fournier troubling, especially with Tom Thibodeau’s defensive demands.
The plot thickens.
Very nice
2 years at 16 million per gives you options to flip if a star comes free
Grab murray, bring back mitch, move randle and get a stretch 4. You know who would fit well, Porzingis, lol.
If they actually trade for him, there's no way he wasn't privy to their plans and signed off on it
If i am Brunson i am happy, takes a ton of pressure off of him
Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn
·
1m
The Atlanta Hawks are trading Danilo Gallinari and multiple first-round picks to the San Antonio Spurs for All-Star guard Dejounte Murray, sources tell ESPN.
Murray can set up Young all-day
Murray can set up Young all-day
I'm not sure I love the fit. Trae's usage is very high and he's at his best with the ball in his hands, making things happen. I'm sure they'll figure it out but on paper it doesn't seem perfect
:)
Next year's draft has what most see as a generational player at the top.
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That's a tough back court in ATL.
Murray can set up Young all-day
I'm not sure I love the fit. Trae's usage is very high and he's at his best with the ball in his hands, making things happen. I'm sure they'll figure it out but on paper it doesn't seem perfect
IDK Murray is a solid penetrator and kick guy.
Plus he does the dirty work like rebounds and defense that young doesn't.
He definitely can give young some space and keep him fresh
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why is SA willing to trade him?
Next year's draft has what most see as a generational player at the top.
No offense but what does that have to do with trading Murray? I you saying SA is gonna tank like they did for Duncan? Lol
If Trae doesn't do that, then this fit will look kind of shaky. But if I were a Hawks fan, I'm happy at the thought of Trae being able to grow his off-ball game.
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why is SA willing to trade him?
Next year's draft has what most see as a generational player at the top.
I don't think that's the only reason. It's a nice goal but with the flattened lottery odds at only 14%, it's far from a given. Murray's value is probably higher than it'll ever be right now with 2 years left on his deal coming off a breakout season. He's going to opt out after this deal and they risk losing him for nothing because the only extension they can offer him is like $22M/year which there's no way he'd take.
Sexton?
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In comment 15743953 robbieballs2003 said:
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why is SA willing to trade him?
Next year's draft has what most see as a generational player at the top.
No offense but what does that have to do with trading Murray? I you saying SA is gonna tank like they did for Duncan? Lol
If you were going to tank, it would look at lot like what SA is doing, trading a 26 year old all star PG for Danilo gallinari's corpse and picks.
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In comment 15743966 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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In comment 15743953 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
why is SA willing to trade him?
Next year's draft has what most see as a generational player at the top.
No offense but what does that have to do with trading Murray? I you saying SA is gonna tank like they did for Duncan? Lol
If you were going to tank, it would look at lot like what SA is doing, trading a 26 year old all star PG for Danilo gallinari's corpse and picks.
It's just very odd that it seems rushed.
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the Knicks are trying to upgrade the 2 guard position
Sexton?
Would be an awful fit
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the Knicks are trying to upgrade the 2 guard position
Sexton?
FWIW Sam Quinn thinks Sexton is extremely underrated with substantial untapped upside.
Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn
The Hawks are sending a 2023 first-round pick via Charlotte, and their own 2025 and 2027 first-round picks to the Spurs in the deal, sources tell ESPN. Spurs will also get a pick swap in 2026.
2027 first
2026 first swap
2023 Charlotte first (protected)
If Cleveland has a SexLand backcourt then I bet the D is good.
That doesn't mean Sexton is as good as Booker. It does mean that he probably still has untapped potential in the right environment. Booker became Booker when he started playing next to Chris Paul. What happens if Sexton finds his own Paul? He probably won't this summer if his $20 million asking price is to be believed. No player with his reputation is going to make that much coming off of a torn ACL. So here's a prediction: if Sexton doesn't find a sign-and-trade (and the guard-needy Wizards look like a possible landing spot), he takes the qualifying offer and picks a new home next offseason. It's entirely possible that he's traded before that. Cleveland added Caris LeVert at the deadline in part to serve as Sexton insurance.
His D is amongst the worst in the league as far as starting players go. Fournier very well might be a better defender
James Harden: 9.2
Trae Young: 8.7
Darius Garland: 7.7
Ja Morant: 7.6
Chris Paul: 7.4
DeJounte Murray: 7.4
Shai Gilgeous-Alexander: 7.3
Damian Lillard: 7.2
Those were the only guys above 7 minutes in terms of TOP last year. These are the guys who pound the rock constantly and define the word "ball-dominant". The Hawks now have #3 and #7 on that list on the same team.
It will be very interesting to see how Murray/Trae adjust to each other.
Im pretty surprised that was the best they could do.
Im pretty surprised that was the best they could do.
I was thinking the same thing. Average draft slot of those Hawks picks will likely be about in line with what the Knicks got for 11 assuming things don't go sideways over there
Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn
The Hawks are sending a 2023 first-round pick via Charlotte, and their own 2025 and 2027 first-round picks to the Spurs in the deal, sources tell ESPN. Spurs will also get a pick swap in 2026.
guessing 25 and 27 are unprotectex..
Wonder if Knicks insisted on Fournier
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he is a much better shooter then Murray. How is his D? The cost on him would be a hell of a lot less then Murray. Although he is another ball dominant player...plus you would force CLE to break up the SexLand backcourt.
If Cleveland has a SexLand backcourt then I bet the D is good.
LOL...well played sir
Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn
The Hawks are sending a 2023 first-round pick via Charlotte, and their own 2025 and 2027 first-round picks to the Spurs in the deal, sources tell ESPN. Spurs will also get a pick swap in 2026.
we have no business sending out unprotected picks for anyone unless it's for an all-nba type.
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Have to think the Knicks didn't have real interest
we have no business sending out unprotected picks for anyone unless it's for an all-nba type.
The Knicks could've beaten that offer purely in volume of picks. The 3 from draft night, Mavs pick and one lightly protected Knicks first is a much better package
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In comment 15743985 Strahan91 said:
Quote:
Have to think the Knicks didn't have real interest
we have no business sending out unprotected picks for anyone unless it's for an all-nba type.
The Knicks could've beaten that offer purely in volume of picks. The 3 from draft night, Mavs pick and one lightly protected Knicks first is a much better package
They probably wanted unprotected
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In comment 15743985 Strahan91 said:
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Have to think the Knicks didn't have real interest
we have no business sending out unprotected picks for anyone unless it's for an all-nba type.
The Knicks could've beaten that offer purely in volume of picks. The 3 from draft night, Mavs pick and one lightly protected Knicks first is a much better package
quality, or potential quality, beats quantity
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In comment 15744000 Enzo said:
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In comment 15743985 Strahan91 said:
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Have to think the Knicks didn't have real interest
we have no business sending out unprotected picks for anyone unless it's for an all-nba type.
The Knicks could've beaten that offer purely in volume of picks. The 3 from draft night, Mavs pick and one lightly protected Knicks first is a much better package
quality, or potential quality, beats quantity
I don't think this makes sense as the Hawks are gonna be really good and picking low. If what was said above is true about next year's draft, this probably means they just want a guaranteed pick in next year's draft over a maybe with the protections.
quality, or potential quality, beats quantity
It's not potential quality though. The Mavs pick will convey this year and the Charlotte pick many people lambasted the Knicks for acquiring because it can turn into 2nd rounders. A top 10 protected Knicks pick this year would've been a better asset than any of the picks the Hawks traded.
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quality, or potential quality, beats quantity
It's not potential quality though. The Mavs pick will convey this year and the Charlotte pick many people lambasted the Knicks for acquiring because it can turn into 2nd rounders. A top 10 protected Knicks pick this year would've been a better asset than any of the picks the Hawks traded.
the hit rate for picks outside the top 10 is not great. A chance at three in the top half of the lottery makes that package better than a basket of protected picks. Obviously the Hawks project to be a good team in the short term - but SA now controls their picks in 2025, 2026, and 2027. Who knows what the Hawks will look like that far out? It's a no brainer to take that over what we probably offering (if we were serious).
@YahooSports
Link - ( New Window )
@YahooSports Link - ( New Window )
Got to beat the tampering charge, and he is holding the meetings in New York..
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Free agent guard Jalen Brunson is granting meetings to Dallas Mavericks, New York Knicks and dark horse Miami Heat on first day of free agency, league sources tell
@YahooSports Link - ( New Window )
Got to beat the tampering charge, and he is holding the meetings in New York..
That's my hope, Leon's son is doing his dad a solid to avoid tampering charges. Still I won't feel good about it until it's done. Stranger things have happened in the nba and the Mavs are sending a contingent
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In comment 15744027 Strahan91 said:
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Free agent guard Jalen Brunson is granting meetings to Dallas Mavericks, New York Knicks and dark horse Miami Heat on first day of free agency, league sources tell
@YahooSports Link - ( New Window )
Got to beat the tampering charge, and he is holding the meetings in New York..
That's my hope, Leon's son is doing his dad a solid to avoid tampering charges. Still I won't feel good about it until it's done. Stranger things have happened in the nba and the Mavs are sending a contingent
agreed
As a team source just told me, he’s excited, “like he’s back at Pomona-Pitzer.”
https://twitter.com/mikefinger/status/1542267508782137344?s=20&t=Dpm1IiaFQOjsp1XWUauv1Q
Marc Stein
@TheSteinLine
·
54s
There is obviously scant optimism in Dallas that anything can be done at this juncture to dissuade Jalen Brunson from signing with New York on a four-year deal worth at least $100 million, but sources say Brunson's camp sought the meetings with Dallas and Miami and now has them.
His agent is related to Leon Rose, there is no tricking lol, i will always have that thought he will sign somewhere else, BUT this feels like a courtesy to dallas and heat to throw off the tampering..
I mean he is taking the meetings in NY
As a team source just told me, he’s excited, “like he’s back at Pomona-Pitzer.”
https://twitter.com/mikefinger/status/1542267508782137344?s=20&t=Dpm1IiaFQOjsp1XWUauv1Q
So basically the second Pop doesn’t get Wembanyama he’s retiring.
Ayton is soft and disappears
Anything can happen.
Anything can happen.
Yes but meetings in Ohio 😉
so am i
Just remember if he goes elsewhere, Dolan probably cleans house. Jalen would be ensuring that his dad and his godfather's/agent's dad lose their jobs
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Solid points. I just am nervous. Like this is Christmas Eve.
Just remember if he goes elsewhere, Dolan probably cleans house. Jalen would be ensuring that his dad and his godfather's/agent's dad lose their jobs
True. How do we avoid a tampering charge though? We hired his fucking dad?
@YahooSports Link - ( New Window )
Riley gonna steal him from the Knicks. He’s gonna privately LOVE doing it to us too.
What other PG is out there? Trading for SGA seems impossible?
Riley gonna steal him from the Knicks. He’s gonna privately LOVE doing it to us too.
Can't he just let us have this one little thing? WTF
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In comment 15744046 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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Solid points. I just am nervous. Like this is Christmas Eve.
Just remember if he goes elsewhere, Dolan probably cleans house. Jalen would be ensuring that his dad and his godfather's/agent's dad lose their jobs
True. How do we avoid a tampering charge though? We hired his fucking dad?
People assume that this was the Knicks way of convincing Jalen to come but there were reports that Thibs tried to hire Rick on his staff when he first took the job. I assume Rick wasn't interested in coming back to the NBA then. He probably already knew Jalen was coming here and jumped at the opportunity to coach his son in the nba.
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with brunson, but this isnt the decision. If we miss out so be it, hopefully they have a solid plan B.
What other PG is out there? Trading for SGA seems impossible?
We'll get Brogdon and that'll be that. This would be an epic disaster on par with the KD/Kyrie one just given what's transpired in the last week (not quality of talent).
This is like my daughter becoming a soccer star-I knock on wood every night-& me ending up as some GM of some women's team & she spurns me to go elsewhere.
(Although I have this perverse interest in watching people who will say he’s overpaid and overrated if he signs with the Knicks act like this is the greatest move ever if he signs elsewhere.)
Would be terrible optics and a gross waste of resources and dysfunction
Would be terrible optics and a gross waste of resources and dysfunction
Agreed. No chance Rose and co keep their jobs if Brunson goes elsewhere, nor should they
Wouldn't work cap-wise. Would have to be Lowry or Dallas would have to be willing to take Duncan Robinson
It's gonna be bad if they do sign him too, because #LOLKnicks. Just for a few days though, if he goes elsewhere it'll last for quite some time
The Rangers run (as well as this totally unexpected Yankees start) took a lot of that edge off. I’ll be okay no matter what.
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they sign and trading Herro for Brunson?
Wouldn't work cap-wise. Would have to be Lowry or Dallas would have to be willing to take Duncan Robinson
I just dont think it works with Miami, but who knows..Funny yeaterday it aounded like a done deal and now that hr is taking meetings it feela like they arent getting him
@MikeAScotto
·
56m
Sources: The Atlanta Hawks won’t tender a qualifying offer to forward Kevin Knox,
@hoopshype
has learned. Knox, who was ninth overall pick by the Knicks in the 2018 draft, will become an unrestricted free agent.
Hell no to Coby White. The dude plays like he thinks he’s Trae Young. The problem is, he’s not any good. But he damn sure thinks he is
@MikeAScotto
·
56m
Sources: The Atlanta Hawks won’t tender a qualifying offer to forward Kevin Knox,
@hoopshype
has learned. Knox, who was ninth overall pick by the Knicks in the 2018 draft, will become an unrestricted free agent.
I'd rather kick myself in the face.
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In comment 15744080 nygiants16 said:
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they sign and trading Herro for Brunson?
Wouldn't work cap-wise. Would have to be Lowry or Dallas would have to be willing to take Duncan Robinson
I just dont think it works with Miami, but who knows..Funny yeaterday it aounded like a done deal and now that hr is taking meetings it feela like they arent getting him
Don’t underestimate Cuban and Riley. It’s probably a bad conspiracy theory but we already know Cuban is pissed at the Knicks. He’d probably go to great lengths at this point to screw up their master plan. If they really wanted to, Miami and Dallas can absolutely team up on a sign and trade. It would take some creativity but it can be done
Yep. It could be patience or it could be incompetence, but we haven’t seen Rose and company close a deal on a big time FA or trade yet. But no matter which perspective you take, he’s in over his head if he’s competing with Riley. Add a scorned Cuban to the mix and this can realistically go sideways in an instant
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Yeah, I feel the same...if Riles is involved, I'm on edge. Throw in Cuban...I'll be sweating until Brunson signs with the Knicks, God willing.
Yep. It could be patience or it could be incompetence, but we haven’t seen Rose and company close a deal on a big time FA or trade yet. But no matter which perspective you take, he’s in over his head if he’s competing with Riley. Add a scorned Cuban to the mix and this can realistically go sideways in an instant
I would still really be shocked if Brunson didnt sign with the Knicks, i still find it hard to beliece they would make moves to clear cap space like they have if they didnt have some sort of understanding..
Obviously anything can happen but id still be shocked
Again, I'm fairly confident Brunson ends up a Knick, but Riles getting involved has me on edge.
Whereas before it was a few days of questioning if the move of worth it, followed by if it doesn't happen then everyone in the front office from the GM to the mailroom clerk must be taken out back and dumped in the east river with cement overshoes.
Now it's "Oh my goodness, lets image everyway it can go wrong"
God, Isiah was a disaster here.
I didnt lol, its different clearing space 2 days before free agency and half a year before free agency..
I also think Rose has a lot more connections than Mills had...
It would be oretty shocking for them to clear this space and nkt know what Brunsons plan is
God, Isiah was a disaster here.
Isiah could get talent, the problem was he had no idea how to build a team, he had Marbury and Crawford who wanted to run and get out in the open court and then added 2 slow lumbering bigs who didnt play defense..
His moves didnt make sense from a team building standpoint
I would not be surprised next year they might have to kidnap the players mother to get him to sign.
In all honesty I would be surprised if he didn't sign but I would not be upset missing out on him
Nothing is gonna shock me here,especially when the suspects are Cuban,Riley,and Leon Rose.
And they could be together for a while. Bam is 25, Herro 22, Brunson 26. Butler is the only one where age is a factor. That would be one hell of a young core. Why wouldn't Jalen want to go there and skip January and Feb in NY
And they could be together for a while. Bam is 25, Herro 22, Brunson 26. Butler is the only one where age is a factor. That would be one hell of a young core. Why wouldn't Jalen want to go there and skip January and Feb in NY
They wont be able to keep all 3..
Whereas before it was a few days of questioning if the move of worth it, followed by if it doesn't happen then everyone in the front office from the GM to the mailroom clerk must be taken out back and dumped in the east river with cement overshoes.
Now it's "Oh my goodness, lets image everyway it can go wrong"
It’s not Stockholm Syndrome. It’s reality. Unless of course you’ve been in a coma for the past few decades and haven’t paid attention to the Knicks
And they could be together for a while. Bam is 25, Herro 22, Brunson 26. Butler is the only one where age is a factor. That would be one hell of a young core. Why wouldn't Jalen want to go there and skip January and Feb in NY
This is funny since someone compared Brunson to Lowery as his comp in this thread or one of the others.
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Playing alongside Bam, Butler and Herro, he could be that complementary piece that puts them over the top.
And they could be together for a while. Bam is 25, Herro 22, Brunson 26. Butler is the only one where age is a factor. That would be one hell of a young core. Why wouldn't Jalen want to go there and skip January and Feb in NY
They wont be able to keep all 3..
Sure they will. Send Lowry to the Mavs along with two firsts
Also, Pat Reilly is CAA.
I still think Brunson ends up a Knick. But I'm more worried now that he doesn't than I was 3 hours ago.
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In comment 15744136 Vanzetti said:
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Playing alongside Bam, Butler and Herro, he could be that complementary piece that puts them over the top.
And they could be together for a while. Bam is 25, Herro 22, Brunson 26. Butler is the only one where age is a factor. That would be one hell of a young core. Why wouldn't Jalen want to go there and skip January and Feb in NY
They wont be able to keep all 3..
Sure they will. Send Lowry to the Mavs along with two firsts
Cant doesnt work cap wise and they are hard capped
I still think Brunson ends up a Knick. But I'm more worried now that he doesn't than I was 3 hours ago.
If Dallas is pissed enough they will go to the nba
It’s not Stockholm Syndrome. It’s reality. Unless of course you’ve been in a coma for the past few decades and haven’t paid attention to the Knicks
The dry spell for the Knicks hasn't been a few decades. Fuck it, hasn't been one decade for that matter. Yes the Melo teams didn't go as far as we hope but that was some damn good basketball. Stuff like that is why I feel we are being over dramatic about this. If he signs great, if he doesn't oh well, we have cap room to use in a trade. Plus weren't people complaining that Thibs was going to use Burkes over the youngsters again, well now he can't even if the Knicks don't get Bunson.
Trade Randle ,acquire more assets, play the kids , live with the results. If kids play well then great. If they dont and knicks end up in lottery hopefully they are able to draft a franchise player. Dont try to be a 10th seed going nowhere which is the worst place you can be in the NBA.
I am very worried they are going to go after Brogdon and other medicore Vets instead , clogging up playing time for the youth on the team while Thibs coaches every game like game 7 with a lot of young players glued to the bench .
The reason why i want Brunson is because he is 25 and i feel he still is on his way up and can grow with the youth on the team
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For the most part, the league looks the other way via tampering unless it is completely obvious. And hell, maybe this is obvious.
I still think Brunson ends up a Knick. But I'm more worried now that he doesn't than I was 3 hours ago.
If Dallas is pissed enough they will go to the nba
If I’m being honest, I don’t blame them for being pissed. If this entire scenario isn’t tampering (beginning with Rose, Randle and Co. randomly showing up in Dallas for a playoff game) then tampering doesn’t exist, lol.
I dont want to be at the end of a bidding war for this guy
Id rather pay $30mm per for a more known PG when one surfaces...and trade for a serviceable one now
So it’s your opinion that Riley is hopping on a plane to fly to NY to meet with Brunson because he’s bored?
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I dont see how the Heat are a factor, unless the mavs are willing to take Duncan Robinson back in a trade and even then they still have to sign herro..
So it’s your opinion that Riley is hopping on a plane to fly to NY to meet with Brunson because he’s bored?
Or he is CAA and he is doing a favor...
Its also possible that they do a skype interview just to say hey look i didnt go and just sign with the Knicks
The media when Riley signs him to the same deal:
“Riley strikes again! Great move landing an up-and-coming young star on a reasonable deal!”
Trade Randle ,acquire more assets, play the kids , live with the results. If kids play well then great. If they dont and knicks end up in lottery hopefully they are able to draft a franchise player. Dont try to be a 10th seed going nowhere which is the worst place you can be in the NBA.
I am very worried they are going to go after Brogdon and other medicore Vets instead , clogging up playing time for the youth on the team while Thibs coaches every game like game 7 with a lot of young players glued to the bench .
The reason why i want Brunson is because he is 25 and i feel he still is on his way up and can grow with the youth on the team
Who wants Randle for that money?
The media when Riley signs him to the same deal:
“Riley strikes again! Great move landing an up-and-coming young star on a reasonable deal!”
I was jist listening to the windhorst podcast and Tim Bontemps is ripping the Knicks for potentially signing Brunson and then goes but its a great signing for the mavs...Like wtf? its like they dont want the Knicks to be better and Windhorst goes they arent better with Brunson and he goes no they are probably worse....like dud what?
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“LOLKnicks, why are they moving heaven and earth to sign this role player?!”
The media when Riley signs him to the same deal:
“Riley strikes again! Great move landing an up-and-coming young star on a reasonable deal!”
I was jist listening to the windhorst podcast and Tim Bontemps is ripping the Knicks for potentially signing Brunson and then goes but its a great signing for the mavs...Like wtf? its like they dont want the Knicks to be better and Windhorst goes they arent better with Brunson and he goes no they are probably worse....like dud what?
We have been the laughing stock of the league for a long time...fuck Windbags
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thing finally.
Trade Randle ,acquire more assets, play the kids , live with the results. If kids play well then great. If they dont and knicks end up in lottery hopefully they are able to draft a franchise player. Dont try to be a 10th seed going nowhere which is the worst place you can be in the NBA.
I am very worried they are going to go after Brogdon and other medicore Vets instead , clogging up playing time for the youth on the team while Thibs coaches every game like game 7 with a lot of young players glued to the bench .
The reason why i want Brunson is because he is 25 and i feel he still is on his way up and can grow with the youth on the team
Who wants Randle for that money?
I dont know maybe they can convince other teams he would be better away from the NY spotlight and get back to the way he played 2020-2021.
IF it takes adding a 1st round pick from the multiple ones they accumulated to get rid of him then so be it. Randle is blocking OBI playing 35 minutes a night and breaking out and he gets in the way of RJ with the way he dominates the ball and forces RJ to camp at the 3 point line a lot of the game. Addition by subtraction to develop these kids
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I dont see how the Heat are a factor, unless the mavs are willing to take Duncan Robinson back in a trade and even then they still have to sign herro..
So it’s your opinion that Riley is hopping on a plane to fly to NY to meet with Brunson because he’s bored?
Riley always wants a chance to sit down with a player he has interest in. It doesn't mean anything is predetermined, but he's a salesman and a damn good one.
Because they would be filling themselves up with tier two players. The 2nd tier players don't make you a title contender and soon you are paying Barrett. It's that you're on a road to nowhere.
It's not him - but the accumulation of others.
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Yeah, I've been listening to some pods laughing @ the Knicks for spending so much on Brunson, which I don't get. He's not getting paid like $50 million like Beal. You wanna laugh @ a contract? Laugh @ the Wiz shelling out 1/2 $100 million for a dude who-as the main star-gets you what, a possible play in spot? Like GTFO.
Because they would be filling themselves up with tier two players. The 2nd tier players don't make you a title contender and soon you are paying Barrett. It's that you're on a road to nowhere.
It's not him - but the accumulation of others.
but they wouldnt be filled up lol
This is like my daughter becoming a soccer star-I knock on wood every night-& me ending up as some GM of some women's team & she spurns me to go elsewhere.
It would be a blessing. Sometiems the best moves you make are the ones that fall through.
In this case, that would be our best situation.
Brunson takes the Knicks nowhere.
Brunson is getting a lot of money if he signs despite some on here trying to twist otherwise.
Brunson takes the Knicks nowhere.
The Knicks are going nowhere in 2022-2023 and now all you've done is fill up cap space for a team that is going nowhere.
The chance Brunson is going to attract a superstar is pretty laughable.
Without attracting the super player, where are the Knicks going?
Why not let the next superstar decide who he wants to play with instead of FORCING the superstar to play with Brunson and Randle?
What's the thrill of watching at best "mediocrity?" So you could BRAG that the pg is averaging 20/7?
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.
It's not him - but the accumulation of others.
but they wouldnt be filled up lol
To less politely follow up on what nygiants16 said. Why the fuck are people assuming that Bunson is the end game for the Knicks and that they will not be able to make any other moves afterwards? Why the fuck are people ignoring the fact that Knicks will have a very young lineup and their "worst" remaining veteran contract is a hell lot more movable than the Westbrook or Irving deadweights?
Plus, if the offense improves under Bunson ball-handling, you might not want to move Randle. Yeah, yeah, I know he once gave the fans a thumbs down, boo boo...
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In comment 15744091 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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Yeah, I've been listening to some pods laughing @ the Knicks for spending so much on Brunson, which I don't get. He's not getting paid like $50 million like Beal. You wanna laugh @ a contract? Laugh @ the Wiz shelling out 1/2 $100 million for a dude who-as the main star-gets you what, a possible play in spot? Like GTFO.
Because they would be filling themselves up with tier two players. The 2nd tier players don't make you a title contender and soon you are paying Barrett. It's that you're on a road to nowhere.
It's not him - but the accumulation of others.
but they wouldnt be filled up lol
Really? So with Randle, Brunson, --and Barrett - and Fournier next year -- they can also get a superstar?
Just hopefully it doesn’t drag out. Sign by Friday please.
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In comment 15744177 giantstock said:
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In comment 15744091 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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Yeah, I've been listening to some pods laughing @ the Knicks for spending so much on Brunson, which I don't get. He's not getting paid like $50 million like Beal. You wanna laugh @ a contract? Laugh @ the Wiz shelling out 1/2 $100 million for a dude who-as the main star-gets you what, a possible play in spot? Like GTFO.
Because they would be filling themselves up with tier two players. The 2nd tier players don't make you a title contender and soon you are paying Barrett. It's that you're on a road to nowhere.
It's not him - but the accumulation of others.
but they wouldnt be filled up lol
Really? So with Randle, Brunson, --and Barrett - and Fournier next year -- they can also get a superstar?
yeah pretty easily actually
Just hopefully it doesn’t drag out. Sign by Friday please.
That would happen Lol
No all reports were they were trying to pair Murray with Brunson, i think if they thought there was a chance they were losing Brunson they would of went harder or we woukd hear rumors of Brogdon
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In comment 15744177 giantstock said:
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.
It's not him - but the accumulation of others.
but they wouldnt be filled up lol
To less politely follow up on what nygiants16 said. Why the fuck are people assuming that Bunson is the end game for the Knicks and that they will not be able to make any other moves afterwards? Why the fuck are people ignoring the fact that Knicks will have a very young lineup and their "worst" remaining veteran contract is a hell lot more movable than the Westbrook or Irving deadweights?
Plus, if the offense improves under Bunson ball-handling, you might not want to move Randle. Yeah, yeah, I know he once gave the fans a thumbs down, boo boo...
Exactly...as.long as we are moving in the right direction and don't make any stupid lengthy contract moves I am.ok
Good young core...salary cap.space
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In comment 15744177 giantstock said:
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.
It's not him - but the accumulation of others.
but they wouldnt be filled up lol
To less politely follow up on what nygiants16 said. Why the fuck are people assuming that Bunson is the end game for the Knicks and that they will not be able to make any other moves afterwards? Why the fuck are people ignoring the fact that Knicks will have a very young lineup and their "worst" remaining veteran contract is a hell lot more movable than the Westbrook or Irving deadweights?
Plus, if the offense improves under Bunson ball-handling, you might not want to move Randle. Yeah, yeah, I know he once gave the fans a thumbs down, boo boo...
Exactly...as.long as we are moving in the right direction and don't make any stupid lengthy contract moves I am.ok
Good young core...salary cap.space
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In comment 15744180 nygiants16 said:
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In comment 15744177 giantstock said:
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In comment 15744091 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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Yeah, I've been listening to some pods laughing @ the Knicks for spending so much on Brunson, which I don't get. He's not getting paid like $50 million like Beal. You wanna laugh @ a contract? Laugh @ the Wiz shelling out 1/2 $100 million for a dude who-as the main star-gets you what, a possible play in spot? Like GTFO.
Because they would be filling themselves up with tier two players. The 2nd tier players don't make you a title contender and soon you are paying Barrett. It's that you're on a road to nowhere.
It's not him - but the accumulation of others.
but they wouldnt be filled up lol
Really? So with Randle, Brunson, --and Barrett - and Fournier next year -- they can also get a superstar?
yeah pretty easily actually
Typical delusion of my fellow Knicks fans.
30 million to Rj
24 to randle
Fournier is an expiring after next year..
the cap is going to keep going up..they have 8 1sts in the next 4 years..They can add a star easily either via trade or clear space..
You keep thinking they are done adding after signing Brunson and you will still be wrong
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In comment 15744180 nygiants16 said:
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In comment 15744177 giantstock said:
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.
It's not him - but the accumulation of others.
but they wouldnt be filled up lol
To less politely follow up on what nygiants16 said. Why the fuck are people assuming that Bunson is the end game for the Knicks and that they will not be able to make any other moves afterwards? Why the fuck are people ignoring the fact that Knicks will have a very young lineup and their "worst" remaining veteran contract is a hell lot more movable than the Westbrook or Irving deadweights?
Plus, if the offense improves under Bunson ball-handling, you might not want to move Randle. Yeah, yeah, I know he once gave the fans a thumbs down, boo boo...
Exactly...as.long as we are moving in the right direction and don't make any stupid lengthy contract moves I am.ok
Good young core...salary cap.space
This is a ridiculous comment. They went all in on brunson gave up draft capital, the 11th pick to get that cap space.
Traded contracts they could walk away from in a year or waited to move without being desperate while adding picks also.
Without Brunson they fucked themselves you can be a fan and be positive but if Brunson goes elsewhere they screwed the future are they going to sign 3 more JAGs for 10 million per for 3 year deals?
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In comment 15744177 giantstock said:
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.
It's not him - but the accumulation of others.
but they wouldnt be filled up lol
To less politely follow up on what nygiants16 said. Why the fuck are people assuming that Bunson is the end game for the Knicks and that they will not be able to make any other moves afterwards? Why the fuck are people ignoring the fact that Knicks will have a very young lineup and their "worst" remaining veteran contract is a hell lot more movable than the Westbrook or Irving deadweights?
Plus, if the offense improves under Bunson ball-handling, you might not want to move Randle. Yeah, yeah, I know he once gave the fans a thumbs down, boo boo...
You're not understanding that there won't be "and end game" if Knicks pay that much for Brunson.
Again you speak of Brunson and Randle-- but where are you think you are going without a superstar with these 2?
30 million to Rj
24 to randle
Fournier is an expiring after next year..
the cap is going to keep going up..they have 8 1sts in the next 4 years..They can add a star easily either via trade or clear space..
You keep thinking they are done adding after signing Brunson and you will still be wrong
After next year Fournier is an expiring contract. But you seem to want to not count this upcoming year. You realize next year counts, right? As a result, our draft pick won't be as the following year, correct?
SO after next year now Randle will be 30.
What you're not understanding is that when a superstar chooses- he is looking to win right away. He'll probably decide ot choose the team that has cap space readily available and not wait a year for a contract to expire.
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25 million to brunson
30 million to Rj
24 to randle
Fournier is an expiring after next year..
the cap is going to keep going up..they have 8 1sts in the next 4 years..They can add a star easily either via trade or clear space..
You keep thinking they are done adding after signing Brunson and you will still be wrong
After next year Fournier is an expiring contract. But you seem to want to not count this upcoming year. You realize next year counts, right? As a result, our draft pick won't be as the following year, correct?
SO after next year now Randle will be 30.
What you're not understanding is that when a superstar chooses- he is looking to win right away. He'll probably decide ot choose the team that has cap space readily available and not wait a year for a contract to expire.
You realize there is thing called trades right? and in thr NBA superstars pick where they want to go, you dont need space to acquire stars..
Randle is going to be 30 next year? he is 27..
Knicks have 8 guys under the age of 24, they have plenty of flexibikity and draft picks, Knicks are nowhere near a finished product
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In comment 15744217 nygiants16 said:
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25 million to brunson
30 million to Rj
24 to randle
Fournier is an expiring after next year..
the cap is going to keep going up..they have 8 1sts in the next 4 years..They can add a star easily either via trade or clear space..
You keep thinking they are done adding after signing Brunson and you will still be wrong
After next year Fournier is an expiring contract. But you seem to want to not count this upcoming year. You realize next year counts, right? As a result, our draft pick won't be as the following year, correct?
SO after next year now Randle will be 30.
What you're not understanding is that when a superstar chooses- he is looking to win right away. He'll probably decide ot choose the team that has cap space readily available and not wait a year for a contract to expire.
You realize there is thing called trades right? and in thr NBA superstars pick where they want to go, you dont need space to acquire stars..
Randle is going to be 30 next year? he is 27..
Knicks have 8 guys under the age of 24, they have plenty of flexibikity and draft picks, Knicks are nowhere near a finished product
You realize once you make the trades then all the players you gave such a positive reply to me on regarding the future are now gone, right?
Secondly, you realize Randle is in fact 28 in November - this year in 2022, right? You realize in the 2024 season that makes him 30, right?
You realize the guys you are spouting as under 24 - a few of them get traded for the superstar, right?
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In comment 15744221 giantstock said:
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In comment 15744217 nygiants16 said:
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25 million to brunson
30 million to Rj
24 to randle
Fournier is an expiring after next year..
the cap is going to keep going up..they have 8 1sts in the next 4 years..They can add a star easily either via trade or clear space..
You keep thinking they are done adding after signing Brunson and you will still be wrong
After next year Fournier is an expiring contract. But you seem to want to not count this upcoming year. You realize next year counts, right? As a result, our draft pick won't be as the following year, correct?
SO after next year now Randle will be 30.
What you're not understanding is that when a superstar chooses- he is looking to win right away. He'll probably decide ot choose the team that has cap space readily available and not wait a year for a contract to expire.
You realize there is thing called trades right? and in thr NBA superstars pick where they want to go, you dont need space to acquire stars..
Randle is going to be 30 next year? he is 27..
Knicks have 8 guys under the age of 24, they have plenty of flexibikity and draft picks, Knicks are nowhere near a finished product
You realize once you make the trades then all the players you gave such a positive reply to me on regarding the future are now gone, right?
Secondly, you realize Randle is in fact 28 in November - this year in 2022, right? You realize in the 2024 season that makes him 30, right?
You realize the guys you are spouting as under 24 - a few of them get traded for the superstar, right?
so they can get a superstar, wbich you claim they cant
You were right, used as leverage
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to SA about Murray. Much ado about nothing
You were right, used as leverage
Knicks beat reporters are standing by their reporting.
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In comment 15744225 Strahan91 said:
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to SA about Murray. Much ado about nothing
You were right, used as leverage
Knicks beat reporters are standing by their reporting.
Bkth can be true, they could be told hey Knicks are interested and be used as leverage
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In comment 15744230 nygiants16 said:
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In comment 15744225 Strahan91 said:
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to SA about Murray. Much ado about nothing
You were right, used as leverage
Knicks beat reporters are standing by their reporting.
Bkth can be true, they could be told hey Knicks are interested and be used as leverage
I believe they should be exploring every deal at this point.
This team is far from a finished product and the Brunson deal shows nothing is done until it's signed
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In comment 15744223 nygiants16 said:
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In comment 15744221 giantstock said:
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In comment 15744217 nygiants16 said:
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25 million to brunson
30 million to Rj
24 to randle
Fournier is an expiring after next year..
the cap is going to keep going up..they have 8 1sts in the next 4 years..They can add a star easily either via trade or clear space..
You keep thinking they are done adding after signing Brunson and you will still be wrong
After next year Fournier is an expiring contract. But you seem to want to not count this upcoming year. You realize next year counts, right? As a result, our draft pick won't be as the following year, correct?
SO after next year now Randle will be 30.
What you're not understanding is that when a superstar chooses- he is looking to win right away. He'll probably decide ot choose the team that has cap space readily available and not wait a year for a contract to expire.
You realize there is thing called trades right? and in thr NBA superstars pick where they want to go, you dont need space to acquire stars..
Randle is going to be 30 next year? he is 27..
Knicks have 8 guys under the age of 24, they have plenty of flexibikity and draft picks, Knicks are nowhere near a finished product
You realize once you make the trades then all the players you gave such a positive reply to me on regarding the future are now gone, right?
Secondly, you realize Randle is in fact 28 in November - this year in 2022, right? You realize in the 2024 season that makes him 30, right?
You realize the guys you are spouting as under 24 - a few of them get traded for the superstar, right?
so they can get a superstar, wbich you claim they cant
I said they can't get them because there will be better alternatives. The superstar won't come. They could have gotten LeBron. They could have gotten KD. The superstar won't come,.
Why do you think I've made the comment-- "The chance Brunson is going to attract a superstar is pretty laughable."
It's why I spoke of "it's the accumulation."
And it's why I spoke of let the next superstar decide who he wants to play with instead of FORCING the superstar to play with Brunson and Randle.
Oh, FFS. What an idiot.
Stein said he heard 4 years 105 with incentives..
Also Fischet mentioned there is mutual interest between Knicks and Rj to get a deal done
Truth - ( New Window )
Stein said he heard 4 years 105 with incentives..
Also Fischet mentioned there is mutual interest between Knicks and Rj to get a deal done
Interesting...
Also Fischet mentioned there is mutual interest between Knicks and Rj to get a deal done
Better pray for a Brandon Ingram type efficiency jump in year 4.
There's no historical precedent for a player getting a max deal early who hasn't had some kind of accolade on his resume, whether it's MVP or even one of the all-rookie teams.
Yeah there's no reason to do it except as good faith.
i agree, i still think they get involved with Lavine or Ayton somehow..
To much smoke around trading Fournier and Reddish
This
Pass on Ayton at his likely cost. Really wouldnt like that signing.
Ayton isn't coming here either.
Pass on Ayton at his likely cost. Really wouldnt like that signing.
Yeah Lavine probably resigns with Chicago..
If they offered him a deal at between 13-15 per, does Cleveland match that? I don’t think they are far off, but what moves need to be made to clear the space needed?
If they offered him a deal at between 13-15 per, does Cleveland match that? I don’t think they are far off, but what moves need to be made to clear the space needed?
A backcourt of two 6 foot guards with limited reach is gonna have some tough nights defensively. They would score a ton but they'd turn the guys they are guarding into nightly DFS fantasy plays. Ivey and Murray are both guys who can credibly guard a taller 2 guard. Sexton cannot. It could happen because the Knicks need talent and Sexton is available, but you are starting your night in a defensive deficit most games. It would be especially hard to play that combo in the last five minutes of games.
Why am I coming off as dramatic? Is Brunson the next Magic Johnson? Well, no but he is exactly what this Knicks team needs. He is a culture changer, a winner, a tough hard nosed guy who never stops improving. More than that, he is an intelligent/efficient player.
Beyond the above, it would be so embarrassing to create the cap space and not land a player who has all the connections Brunson has with the Knicks. It would be the ultimate swing and miss.
Love that
Begely mentioned last night Knicks were calling back up bigs
I'm just assuming Taj is coming back for the minimum. He's the new Herb.
Question on sexton is cost. Anything around 15 and im all aboard, but when you starting get closer to 20 im not sure. Especially coming off the injury. And if you are in the 15 range, does CLE just match?
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Smart. Plays with really good feel. Still can continue improving. I'm a guy that really likes Sims but if we went into the season with Mitch, Hartenstein and Sims, we'd be in really good shape. Let Taj join the coaching staff lol.
I'm just assuming Taj is coming back for the minimum. He's the new Herb.
Orlando let Mo Bamba walk and supposably going in on Hartenstein too.
Question on sexton is cost. Anything around 15 and im all aboard, but when you starting get closer to 20 im not sure. Especially coming off the injury. And if you are in the 15 range, does CLE just match?
Sexton is coming off injury and is no approaching 20 million.
Cleveland is looking on the cheap to keep him 10-15 range.
Him and Brunson together again..maybe we can land Jay Wright
Not really sure what the point would be. On paper id list him as our 5th best guard if we got Brunson. Id rather let McBride play, not hating on Divencenzo but id rather see what McBride can be.
Remember when Hartenstein was like the headliner for the Carmelo to the Rockets rumor.
I'd happily drive him to the airport.
Thanks for the bombshell, Sam. Haha
And a Nova guy.
I am in the camp to give him until the deadline to try and get him right.
Knicks are not winning more than 42 games with or without him.
Now I do understand that all might not come to fruition but it is certainly possible
I am in the camp to give him until the deadline to try and get him right.
Knicks are not winning more than 42 games with or without him.
In concept, I hate selling low (and I am a trader so it really burns me to do that!!). But I have no belief that he will change his ways in any year that isn't a contract year.
He also mentions Drummond. Yuck
Now I do understand that all might not come to fruition but it is certainly possible
Because this team doesn't have the talent to be more than a .500 team even with a competent point guard.
Best case scenario 8th seed and a first round sweep and that's a stretch
Everyone screaming about 37 wins a lot of those wins came in garbage time against other non playoff teams
They were 28-40 and out of the playoffs on march 18th.
Someone will be desperate for an impact player with no cap room and need Randle. We have to get picks for Randle if we trade him, IMO.
Always liked his game and toughness.
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Not sure it's a great fit but worth noting Paschall is a local guy #Knicks
Always liked his game and toughness.
He's a very solid player, I just wasn't in the mood to debate his fit on the roster given the other bigs. He'd be a fine addition to "any" team".
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Are you so convinced we can’t win more than 5 more games than we did last year ? If we land a legit PG (Brunson), rose is healthy for 15-20 min per game and RJ and the rest of the young players improve we should be significantly better.
Now I do understand that all might not come to fruition but it is certainly possible
Because this team doesn't have the talent to be more than a .500 team even with a competent point guard.
Best case scenario 8th seed and a first round sweep and that's a stretch
Everyone screaming about 37 wins a lot of those wins came in garbage time against other non playoff teams
They were 28-40 and out of the playoffs on march 18th.
Its also when Thibs started trusting Iq and Obi more and they were playing more minutes..
They also blew how many 20 point leads? How many games did they blpw late because they didnt have a Point to run the offense?
They didnt just play non playoff teams at the end of the season...
Even then they didnt have Rose for much of the season, Randle was god awful, Rj was terrible to start the year, they had Kemba and Alec Burks at PG and Thibs probably had his worst year coaching...
So your saying Brunson over Kemba and Burks is not an upgrade?
You are saying Rj wont improve?
Rose wont be healthy? fair criticism
Randle wont be slightly better?
None of the young kids improve?
wooohooo
I'm glad the Knicks aren't bowing to public pressure from the fans. We have to stay patient and make smart decisions.
That is a pleasant surprise.
Riley only did this to screw with us and you can't convince me otherwise.
Poetl? He's very good but doesn't shoot from the outside. Quick glance at the box scores against SA and he's the only C who did anything
But hey, we're the ones who are being unrealistic
I'm glad the Knicks aren't bowing to public pressure from the fans. We have to stay patient and make smart decisions.
Vaccaro pretty much roasted Rose in the post today for "whiffing" on Murray. To me it's just a weird take that doesn't convey the truth but sports writers are known for bullshit takes like this. You can disagree that maybe the Knicks should have gone all in on Murray, totally fair, but Vaccaro virtually implies that the Knicks were asleep at the wheel.
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In comment 15744386 g56blue10 said:
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Are you so convinced we can’t win more than 5 more games than we did last year ? If we land a legit PG (Brunson), rose is healthy for 15-20 min per game and RJ and the rest of the young players improve we should be significantly better.
Now I do understand that all might not come to fruition but it is certainly possible
Because this team doesn't have the talent to be more than a .500 team even with a competent point guard.
Best case scenario 8th seed and a first round sweep and that's a stretch
Everyone screaming about 37 wins a lot of those wins came in garbage time against other non playoff teams
They were 28-40 and out of the playoffs on march 18th.
Its also when Thibs started trusting Iq and Obi more and they were playing more minutes..
They also blew how many 20 point leads? How many games did they blpw late because they didnt have a Point to run the offense?
They didnt just play non playoff teams at the end of the season...
Even then they didnt have Rose for much of the season, Randle was god awful, Rj was terrible to start the year, they had Kemba and Alec Burks at PG and Thibs probably had his worst year coaching...
So your saying Brunson over Kemba and Burks is not an upgrade?
You are saying Rj wont improve?
Rose wont be healthy? fair criticism
Randle wont be slightly better?
None of the young kids improve?
All the bad things you mentioned are just luck and will change next year?
Just off of talent this is a .500 team and the 9-3 run at the end of the year was fun but in the NBA everyone knows you can judge those games as real. Playoff teams are resting players-non playoff teams are sitting good players for the kids etc.
NY16 what do you see next year give me a win total?
He could be really good in that role but Randle's worst enemy is his ego
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do wish Randle were gone (not looking to get into a big Randle debate) but I fail to see how Julius Randle's offensive game gels with a real PG, or works within the floor of a successful team offense. His 2021 "mini-Lebron" stuff worked for him, but they were never challenging for a title with the offense run that way, and the Hawks series illuminated the issues. Is he okay being a third option? An Anthony Mason role? I doubt it.
He could be really good in that role but Randle's worst enemy is his ego
Yeah, I guess I should have been more clear.... IF he were in the "Anthony Mason" role I think it could work. I just don't see him relegating himself to that at this point. I get the feeling he'd rather be the top dog on a "bad" team but his team, vs. a piece.
1) He will be addition by subtraction as the ball flows so much better when he is out
2) Frees up time for Obi
3) He was a cancer with his poor body language
At this point, the return is less important as long they don't have to attach assets. He can definitely help a team where he respects the other players, which is why a sign n trade with Phoenix for Ayton is something I hoped for.
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but that's a ridiculous trade for the Knicks. 2 unprotected plus a pick swap to a team like the Knicks would be absolutely criminal unless you are talking about a legitimate superstar. Murray is not it.
I'm glad the Knicks aren't bowing to public pressure from the fans. We have to stay patient and make smart decisions.
Vaccaro pretty much roasted Rose in the post today for "whiffing" on Murray. To me it's just a weird take that doesn't convey the truth but sports writers are known for bullshit takes like this. You can disagree that maybe the Knicks should have gone all in on Murray, totally fair, but Vaccaro virtually implies that the Knicks were asleep at the wheel.
Agree that article was a BS take. IMO the Knicks are going about this the right way. Their many issues will not be fixed overnight.
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In comment 15744393 larryflower37 said:
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In comment 15744386 g56blue10 said:
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Are you so convinced we can’t win more than 5 more games than we did last year ? If we land a legit PG (Brunson), rose is healthy for 15-20 min per game and RJ and the rest of the young players improve we should be significantly better.
Now I do understand that all might not come to fruition but it is certainly possible
Because this team doesn't have the talent to be more than a .500 team even with a competent point guard.
Best case scenario 8th seed and a first round sweep and that's a stretch
Everyone screaming about 37 wins a lot of those wins came in garbage time against other non playoff teams
They were 28-40 and out of the playoffs on march 18th.
Its also when Thibs started trusting Iq and Obi more and they were playing more minutes..
They also blew how many 20 point leads? How many games did they blpw late because they didnt have a Point to run the offense?
They didnt just play non playoff teams at the end of the season...
Even then they didnt have Rose for much of the season, Randle was god awful, Rj was terrible to start the year, they had Kemba and Alec Burks at PG and Thibs probably had his worst year coaching...
So your saying Brunson over Kemba and Burks is not an upgrade?
You are saying Rj wont improve?
Rose wont be healthy? fair criticism
Randle wont be slightly better?
None of the young kids improve?
All the bad things you mentioned are just luck and will change next year?
Just off of talent this is a .500 team and the 9-3 run at the end of the year was fun but in the NBA everyone knows you can judge those games as real. Playoff teams are resting players-non playoff teams are sitting good players for the kids etc.
NY16 what do you see next year give me a win total?
a lot of the bad things were no one to run the offense...
Win total if they just add Brunson and resign Mitch and Randle starting with Fournier? 41 to 43..
If Brunson and Mitch, Randle is traded and Fournier is gone or coming off the bench? 45
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In comment 15744393 larryflower37 said:
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In comment 15744386 g56blue10 said:
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Are you so convinced we can’t win more than 5 more games than we did last year ? If we land a legit PG (Brunson), rose is healthy for 15-20 min per game and RJ and the rest of the young players improve we should be significantly better.
Now I do understand that all might not come to fruition but it is certainly possible
Because this team doesn't have the talent to be more than a .500 team even with a competent point guard.
Best case scenario 8th seed and a first round sweep and that's a stretch
Everyone screaming about 37 wins a lot of those wins came in garbage time against other non playoff teams
They were 28-40 and out of the playoffs on march 18th.
Its also when Thibs started trusting Iq and Obi more and they were playing more minutes..
They also blew how many 20 point leads? How many games did they blpw late because they didnt have a Point to run the offense?
They didnt just play non playoff teams at the end of the season...
Even then they didnt have Rose for much of the season, Randle was god awful, Rj was terrible to start the year, they had Kemba and Alec Burks at PG and Thibs probably had his worst year coaching...
So your saying Brunson over Kemba and Burks is not an upgrade?
You are saying Rj wont improve?
Rose wont be healthy? fair criticism
Randle wont be slightly better?
None of the young kids improve?
All the bad things you mentioned are just luck and will change next year?
Just off of talent this is a .500 team and the 9-3 run at the end of the year was fun but in the NBA everyone knows you can judge those games as real. Playoff teams are resting players-non playoff teams are sitting good players for the kids etc.
NY16 what do you see next year give me a win total?
You keep digging in your heals. Basically you don't want the Knicks to ever sign an up n coming star for big but not max money. And why? Because it won't be enough to help the team go from 37 to 57 wins. I guess you think Brunson has peaked and this peak isn't good enough to help the team. Never mind that PG is by far the biggest hole on the team and a 25 year "peaked" good player would do wonders...but ok...
You won't allow for the chance that Brunson isn't the final move. I don't know why.
So where or how are we going from 37 to 52 wins? Wait this out for another 3 years and hope we draft a super star? Never mind that we still could even if we signed Brunson..
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but that's a ridiculous trade for the Knicks. 2 unprotected plus a pick swap to a team like the Knicks would be absolutely criminal unless you are talking about a legitimate superstar. Murray is not it.
I'm glad the Knicks aren't bowing to public pressure from the fans. We have to stay patient and make smart decisions.
Vaccaro pretty much roasted Rose in the post today for "whiffing" on Murray. To me it's just a weird take that doesn't convey the truth but sports writers are known for bullshit takes like this. You can disagree that maybe the Knicks should have gone all in on Murray, totally fair, but Vaccaro virtually implies that the Knicks were asleep at the wheel.
and he would be ripping the Knicks for giving up 2 unprotected firsts if they made the trade..
But hey, we're the ones who are being unrealistic
Not doom and gloom I think at best this is a .500 team and most outside would agree.
I watch every game and in everyone of these game threads I just don't agree with everything this team does.
Right now this team is going to be in no man's land and while that's an improvement this roster doesn't make them a contender.
Granted nothing big has been out there for them to grab.
The exuberance around a middle level PG moving the needle to relevance is not real.
We will suck for the next 100 years. But we will have all the cap space you want.
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In comment 15744412 Kmed6000 said:
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but that's a ridiculous trade for the Knicks. 2 unprotected plus a pick swap to a team like the Knicks would be absolutely criminal unless you are talking about a legitimate superstar. Murray is not it.
I'm glad the Knicks aren't bowing to public pressure from the fans. We have to stay patient and make smart decisions.
Vaccaro pretty much roasted Rose in the post today for "whiffing" on Murray. To me it's just a weird take that doesn't convey the truth but sports writers are known for bullshit takes like this. You can disagree that maybe the Knicks should have gone all in on Murray, totally fair, but Vaccaro virtually implies that the Knicks were asleep at the wheel.
and he would be ripping the Knicks for giving up 2 unprotected firsts if they made the trade..
Murray is not the guy I am overpaying for with unprotected picks, so I agree with the Knicks not making the deal.
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is deliberately exaggerating the team's negatives in order to make their point. Just because you are frustrated by last year's record, it doesn't mean that the bottom end of the range will always happen. Hell, some of you guys aren't even giving them credit for the bottom end that they reached last year.
But hey, we're the ones who are being unrealistic
Not doom and gloom I think at best this is a .500 team and most outside would agree.
I watch every game and in everyone of these game threads I just don't agree with everything this team does.
Right now this team is going to be in no man's land and while that's an improvement this roster doesn't make them a contender.
Granted nothing big has been out there for them to grab.
The exuberance around a middle level PG moving the needle to relevance is not real.
so a 500 team can't sneak into the upper 40s if they add a solid PG. And that same team can't do more than just add that solid PG because said PG precludes the Knicks from adding anymore talent?
Yet if the Knicks added a PG that earned 5-10 million less per year, somehow that perfectly priced and available (he isn't) PG allows the KNicks to add all end all be all talent in FA over the next 2 years?
Why the hell can't we just add a good young PG who makes good money?
Not all big contracts are bad. Live a little.
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In comment 15744410 nygiants16 said:
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In comment 15744393 larryflower37 said:
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In comment 15744386 g56blue10 said:
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Are you so convinced we can’t win more than 5 more games than we did last year ? If we land a legit PG (Brunson), rose is healthy for 15-20 min per game and RJ and the rest of the young players improve we should be significantly better.
Now I do understand that all might not come to fruition but it is certainly possible
Because this team doesn't have the talent to be more than a .500 team even with a competent point guard.
Best case scenario 8th seed and a first round sweep and that's a stretch
Everyone screaming about 37 wins a lot of those wins came in garbage time against other non playoff teams
They were 28-40 and out of the playoffs on march 18th.
Its also when Thibs started trusting Iq and Obi more and they were playing more minutes..
They also blew how many 20 point leads? How many games did they blpw late because they didnt have a Point to run the offense?
They didnt just play non playoff teams at the end of the season...
Even then they didnt have Rose for much of the season, Randle was god awful, Rj was terrible to start the year, they had Kemba and Alec Burks at PG and Thibs probably had his worst year coaching...
So your saying Brunson over Kemba and Burks is not an upgrade?
You are saying Rj wont improve?
Rose wont be healthy? fair criticism
Randle wont be slightly better?
None of the young kids improve?
All the bad things you mentioned are just luck and will change next year?
Just off of talent this is a .500 team and the 9-3 run at the end of the year was fun but in the NBA everyone knows you can judge those games as real. Playoff teams are resting players-non playoff teams are sitting good players for the kids etc.
NY16 what do you see next year give me a win total?
You keep digging in your heals. Basically you don't want the Knicks to ever sign an up n coming star for big but not max money. And why? Because it won't be enough to help the team go from 37 to 57 wins. I guess you think Brunson has peaked and this peak isn't good enough to help the team. Never mind that PG is by far the biggest hole on the team and a 25 year "peaked" good player would do wonders...but ok...
You won't allow for the chance that Brunson isn't the final move. I don't know why.
So where or how are we going from 37 to 52 wins? Wait this out for another 3 years and hope we draft a super star? Never mind that we still could even if we signed Brunson..
You have to believe he is an upcoming star which I don't What we get is a middle of the road PG that made magic in the playoffs and IMO the reality of that will set in and we will be a 500 team with a decent PG.
Why can I have a difference of opinion on the Brunson money aside?
He doesn't move the needle for me and I don't see the tremendous upside that you do.
We will have time to debate this all year.
Just like we have for 2 years on RJ.
I will be willing to admit I am wrong happily if Brunson turns into that player
Not all big contracts are bad. Live a little.
No, but some contracts lead you to trade your lottery pick to get rid of them...
1) He will be addition by subtraction as the ball flows so much better when he is out
2) Frees up time for Obi
3) He was a cancer with his poor body language
At this point, the return is less important as long they don't have to attach assets. He can definitely help a team where he respects the other players, which is why a sign n trade with Phoenix for Ayton is something I hoped for.
Best post of the day. Two very enthusiastic thumbs up for all it.
Not all big contracts are bad. Live a little.
This is laughable it's not about the money it's the player.
He doesn't move the needle and IMO will be an average PG away from Dallas and that system but he is your savior so have at it.
Will he help the team next year yes but .500 is no man's land.
this is why i want Randle gone, if next year Brunson is 20 and 8 and the Knicks are around 41 wins and Rj, Iq and Obi all played well and improved, the Knicks will be set up to add a star to this core..
Brunson is a piece, he is not a savior
If Obi plays more and RJ is the offensive focus on the 1s, he could easily be much worse.
Tim Reynolds
@ByTimReynolds
· 43m
The Heat are not planning to meet with Jalen Brunson today, and they did not have such a meeting scheduled, per league source.
Tim Reynolds
@ByTimReynolds
· 43m
The Heat are not planning to meet with Jalen Brunson today, and they did not have such a meeting scheduled, per league source.
I am going to go with Riley asked Brunson if they had a shot and he told them very little
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but that's a ridiculous trade for the Knicks. 2 unprotected plus a pick swap to a team like the Knicks would be absolutely criminal unless you are talking about a legitimate superstar. Murray is not it.
I'm glad the Knicks aren't bowing to public pressure from the fans. We have to stay patient and make smart decisions.
Vaccaro pretty much roasted Rose in the post today for "whiffing" on Murray. To me it's just a weird take that doesn't convey the truth but sports writers are known for bullshit takes like this. You can disagree that maybe the Knicks should have gone all in on Murray, totally fair, but Vaccaro virtually implies that the Knicks were asleep at the wheel.
Everyone I heard is killing the Knicks. All my knicks fan friends immediately texted me ripping the knicks. It's easy to do, history shows that they always make bad decisions, but I agree with this one completely. The Knicks cannot be giving away 3 unprotected picks(you can count teh swap option in there). Thats something a contender does.
this is why i want Randle gone, if next year Brunson is 20 and 8 and the Knicks are around 41 wins and Rj, Iq and Obi all played well and improved, the Knicks will be set up to add a star to this core..
Brunson is a piece, he is not a savior
Yea I think unless you're really setting up to tank for the foreseeable future, you have to add good players. Brunson is a good player, and by all accounts a good teammate.
Hopefully he can help our young core with their progression. Middle ground is what the Knicks did last year. So, if we follow the logic of not trying to get better, they should be trading everyone on the team who may help us win games to get future assets.
Even if you got rid of all the vets, and invested in playing the youth all the time, do you think we'd be a bottom of the league team? I don't. So then you're not tanking then either.
The Brunson pickup is good. You have to improve your team while accumulating future assets which we have done. I think the team has enough draft equity that should a big player come available, we can make a move for them while still having some good players to play around them.
They have 11 first round picks over the next 7 years. At this point you're looking for things to be mad about.
If you want to criticize the Knicks, it's easy. They extended Randle too quickly. They overreacted to the hawks playoffs series and sacrificed defense for offense with Fournier. They were too reliant on 33 year old breaking down Derrick Rose. They did a shit job with their young players last season.
this is why i want Randle gone, if next year Brunson is 20 and 8 and the Knicks are around 41 wins and Rj, Iq and Obi all played well and improved, the Knicks will be set up to add a star to this core..
Brunson is a piece, he is not a savior
He has to be gone to give you cap room in 2023.
Right now with these signings and you cut Taj and give up Arcidiacono it's gets you to 9 million. Sign some filler back up center etc.
Re-up Mitch and extend RJ and have no picks in lottery territory next year only options to improve have to be to move Fournier and Randle for 2023 cap space and hope Mitchell or likewise shakes free.
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are literally suffering from contract PTSD. Same with NYG fans.
Not all big contracts are bad. Live a little.
This is laughable it's not about the money it's the player.
He doesn't move the needle and IMO will be an average PG away from Dallas and that system but he is your savior so have at it.
Will he help the team next year yes but .500 is no man's land.
Why do you think Brunson will be an average PG away from Dallas and that system? What's so special about that system? And if you're thinking he'll take a step back without Luka, Brunson actually played better when Luka was inactive and it wasn't an insignificant sample size, imo.
In 17 reg season games w/o Luka, Brunson averaged almost 21 pts and 8.5 Ast. In 3 playoff games w/o Luka, Brunson averaged 32 pts.
I honestly think the Knicks need a guy like Brunson more than that athletic marvel who scowls and dunks his way to sportcenter every other night. I want the calming floor leader like Brunson so badly here.
I just can't get behind the take that it's an overpay and leaves the Knicks with a limited future simply because the optics look that way. That's weak.
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he is another piece..
this is why i want Randle gone, if next year Brunson is 20 and 8 and the Knicks are around 41 wins and Rj, Iq and Obi all played well and improved, the Knicks will be set up to add a star to this core..
Brunson is a piece, he is not a savior
He has to be gone to give you cap room in 2023.
Right now with these signings and you cut Taj and give up Arcidiacono it's gets you to 9 million. Sign some filler back up center etc.
Re-up Mitch and extend RJ and have no picks in lottery territory next year only options to improve have to be to move Fournier and Randle for 2023 cap space and hope Mitchell or likewise shakes free.
You dont need cap space to get Mitchell, he is signed for 4 more years
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are literally suffering from contract PTSD. Same with NYG fans.
Not all big contracts are bad. Live a little.
No, but some contracts lead you to trade your lottery pick to get rid of them...
Can we stop with this lottery pick label? It was pick 11 in a mediocre at best draft.
When I hear lottery pick I think top 5 in a 5 player draft. Cmon already. 10-30 picks aren't exactly awe-inspiring and you know it.
Oh and we also turned 11 into 3 future picks. Then we used one of those to dump salary. Kind of an important detail some of you like to leave out.
Saying we gave away a lotto pick to move salary is disingenuous.
The Knicks took a calculated risk last year and brought back the vets that helped the team finish as a high seed. They essentially risked a bunch of 2nd round picks. Big fucking deal.
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In comment 15744448 djm said:
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are literally suffering from contract PTSD. Same with NYG fans.
Not all big contracts are bad. Live a little.
This is laughable it's not about the money it's the player.
He doesn't move the needle and IMO will be an average PG away from Dallas and that system but he is your savior so have at it.
Will he help the team next year yes but .500 is no man's land.
Why do you think Brunson will be an average PG away from Dallas and that system? What's so special about that system? And if you're thinking he'll take a step back without Luka, Brunson actually played better when Luka was inactive and it wasn't an insignificant sample size, imo.
In 17 reg season games w/o Luka, Brunson averaged almost 21 pts and 8.5 Ast. In 3 playoff games w/o Luka, Brunson averaged 32 pts.
The system is built around the PG postion and creating space for the PG to be the focal point.
Thibs has not shown the same now they do like the pick and roll which will help Brunson but Thibs offense is archaic at times and very stagnant in the half court.
I do agree if Randle is gone and Grimes moves to the starting 2 they can get up and down the court.
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are literally suffering from contract PTSD. Same with NYG fans.
Not all big contracts are bad. Live a little.
This is laughable it's not about the money it's the player.
He doesn't move the needle and IMO will be an average PG away from Dallas and that system but he is your savior so have at it.
Will he help the team next year yes but .500 is no man's land.
Average PG is not a bad thing and he's not being paid like a savior but keep at it.
@FredKatz
The Knicks have released their summer league roster.
Notable names include Trevor Keels, Jericho Sims, Miles McBride, Quentin Grimes and Feron Hunt.
@TheSteinLine
·
49s
The Mavericks are indeed sending their contingent to New York today for a meeting with Jalen Brunson after 6 PM ET. Team owner Mark Cuban was already in NYC this week on non-NBA business and will be joined by Nico Harrison, Michael Finley and Jason Kidd.
I honestly think the Knicks need a guy like Brunson more than that athletic marvel who scowls and dunks his way to sportcenter every other night. I want the calming floor leader like Brunson so badly here.
I just can't get behind the take that it's an overpay and leaves the Knicks with a limited future simply because the optics look that way. That's weak.
The money is not an issue at all I mean I would rather not pay him the top of his range but I think he is what he is and the thought that he is going to make a leap I can't see it.
He is a dog and will be fun to watch at times but limited physically.
Brunson is a nice piece but not a difference maker.
I don't like the middle of the pack with zero lottery hopes.
Never mind that Rose did a good job gathering up a SHIT LOAD of 2nd round picks on the backs of multiple under the radar transactions since he came here. Never mind that he did the same in regards to first round picks or how he has hit a bunch of singles and doubles in the late 1st and 2nd round these last 2 years. Nope. Fans are focused on what he just did which was move some of those same 2nd rounders he gained here to free up some loot.
The Knicks have like 20 picks over the next 7 years but all I read is how dumb Rose is for trading away some of those 2nd rounders. Cmon already.
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In comment 15744469 nygiants16 said:
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he is another piece..
this is why i want Randle gone, if next year Brunson is 20 and 8 and the Knicks are around 41 wins and Rj, Iq and Obi all played well and improved, the Knicks will be set up to add a star to this core..
Brunson is a piece, he is not a savior
He has to be gone to give you cap room in 2023.
Right now with these signings and you cut Taj and give up Arcidiacono it's gets you to 9 million. Sign some filler back up center etc.
Re-up Mitch and extend RJ and have no picks in lottery territory next year only options to improve have to be to move Fournier and Randle for 2023 cap space and hope Mitchell or likewise shakes free.
You dont need cap space to get Mitchell, he is signed for 4 more years
You need to absorb him and build around unless you move RJ and/or Brunson because they are not taking Randle with 2+ years. It's cleaner with cap space and/or expiring
I agreed it would be fun to see the kids let loose and see what the team can be.
If Randle is gone Thibs has very little choice and honestly I would like D.Rose moved too just to let Quickley get an opportunity and I love D.Rose.
@TheSteinLine
·
49s
The Mavericks are indeed sending their contingent to New York today for a meeting with Jalen Brunson after 6 PM ET. Team owner Mark Cuban was already in NYC this week on non-NBA business and will be joined by Nico Harrison, Michael Finley and Jason Kidd.
What am I missing? Why would the Mavs need to wait until after 6 pm? Don’t they have the right to negotiate with Brunson without waiting until FA begins?
That 5th year and the Texas no state tax is a big selling point.
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even if Mavs match Knicks offer they view he will choose Knicks
That 5th year and the Texas no state tax is a big selling point.
Daddy Brunson has made it clear that the fame that comes with playing in NY is playing a big role.
Being an all star in NY is bigger than being one in Dallas.
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even if Mavs match Knicks offer they view he will choose Knicks
That 5th year and the Texas no state tax is a big selling point.
I dont think he wants a 5th year, 4 year takes him to 29 and then he can cash in on a 5 year deal
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even if Mavs match Knicks offer they view he will choose Knicks
That 5th year and the Texas no state tax is a big selling point.
Not gonna be shocked if Dallas decides to exceed our offer. It's been discussed a million times - they're capped out either way and cannot replace the asset.
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In comment 15744462 larryflower37 said:
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In comment 15744448 djm said:
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are literally suffering from contract PTSD. Same with NYG fans.
Not all big contracts are bad. Live a little.
This is laughable it's not about the money it's the player.
He doesn't move the needle and IMO will be an average PG away from Dallas and that system but he is your savior so have at it.
Will he help the team next year yes but .500 is no man's land.
Why do you think Brunson will be an average PG away from Dallas and that system? What's so special about that system? And if you're thinking he'll take a step back without Luka, Brunson actually played better when Luka was inactive and it wasn't an insignificant sample size, imo.
In 17 reg season games w/o Luka, Brunson averaged almost 21 pts and 8.5 Ast. In 3 playoff games w/o Luka, Brunson averaged 32 pts.
The system is built around the PG postion and creating space for the PG to be the focal point.
Thibs has not shown the same now they do like the pick and roll which will help Brunson but Thibs offense is archaic at times and very stagnant in the half court.
I do agree if Randle is gone and Grimes moves to the starting 2 they can get up and down the court.
Seems to me, Thibs hasn't had a decent PG with the Knicks, other than an obviously limited Derrick Rose. Who knows what the offense could look like with a good young PG (vs. Randle the pt fwd, which I never want to see again).
Not complete without the gif...
I am not upset about the build at all and I am happy he has not made any uncorrectable moves and has drafted well but it's year 3 and the needle has to move past the middle.
Also I am not a Thibs fan and was pretty vocal about the hire originally.
I need to see more to be confident we are moving in the right direction.
@FredKatz
The Knicks have released their summer league roster.
Notable names include Trevor Keels, Jericho Sims, Miles McBride, Quentin Grimes and Feron Hunt.
Feron Hunt is a 'notable name'?
Jahvon Blair, G.S. Lavrio B.C. (Greece)
Garrison Brooks, Mississippi State
Vince Edwards, Iowa Wolves (NBA G League)
Quentin Grimes, Knicks
Feron Hunt, Knicks
DaQuan Jeffries, College Park Skyhawks (NBA G League)
Trevor Keels, Duke
Miles McBride, Knicks
Jean Montero, Overtime Elite
Micah Potter, Sioux Falls Skyforce (NBA G League)
Quentin Rose, Westchester Knicks (NBA G League)
D’Shawn Schwartz, George Mason
Aamir Sims, Westchester Knicks (NBA G League)
M.J. Walker, Westchester Knicks (NBA G League)
NBACentral
@TheNBACentral
“Brooklyn, in need of athleticism in the frontcourt, likes Ayton and could piece together a package headlined by Joe Harris.”
- @SIChrisMannix
@SNYtv
·
1h
Members of the Knicks' organization are "optimistic" that there will be common ground on an extension with RJ Barrett (via @IanBegley
) https://on.sny.tv/qA6gXLR
Jahvon Blair, G.S. Lavrio B.C. (Greece)
Garrison Brooks, Mississippi State
Vince Edwards, Iowa Wolves (NBA G League)
Quentin Grimes, Knicks
Feron Hunt, Knicks
DaQuan Jeffries, College Park Skyhawks (NBA G League)
Trevor Keels, Duke
Miles McBride, Knicks
Jean Montero, Overtime Elite
Micah Potter, Sioux Falls Skyforce (NBA G League)
Quentin Rose, Westchester Knicks (NBA G League)
D’Shawn Schwartz, George Mason
Aamir Sims, Westchester Knicks (NBA G League)
M.J. Walker, Westchester Knicks (NBA G League)
MJ Walker isn't gonna be anything but he was fun to watch last year. He had some nice moments last year. He was just overshadowed by the young kids.
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or feel he's not even a league average PG I could see why you wouldn't want to sign him here but league average (meaning good) PGs that are under 27 are going to get paid. 4 years 110 or so isn't really an overpay at all. And we so desperately need a guy like Brunson as he's a leader on and off the floor.
I honestly think the Knicks need a guy like Brunson more than that athletic marvel who scowls and dunks his way to sportcenter every other night. I want the calming floor leader like Brunson so badly here.
I just can't get behind the take that it's an overpay and leaves the Knicks with a limited future simply because the optics look that way. That's weak.
The money is not an issue at all I mean I would rather not pay him the top of his range but I think he is what he is and the thought that he is going to make a leap I can't see it.
He is a dog and will be fun to watch at times but limited physically.
Brunson is a nice piece but not a difference maker.
I don't like the middle of the pack with zero lottery hopes.
Fair enough. Let's hope they have a plan that doesn't peak with 40 wins.
Because if he gets the ball, it typically sticks. He tries to dribble into double teams, puts up bad shots, turns it over, etc.
What reason do we have to believe Randle would be "open" to such a role? He came to the Knicks in the first place because he wanted touches and to be "the man" and then sulked all of last season (likely in large part due to his "demotion"/shared primary role with RJB. I've seen nothing said/done by Randle to suggest he's a "winning over role" type. I'd love to be proven wrong. Finally, his offensive game is mostly ground and pound, yes he can hit an outside shot but his primary offense is dribble drives and bully ball, not in the context of a team offense.
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Everyone complains about how Randle slowed the offense the way he tried to get off his shot as the 24 second clock would run down. For the most part, they ran a very inefficient offense. Add a PG who can distribute the ball and hit an open shot and that Randle offense gets taken out of the playbook. Assuming Brunson does sign, and is PG he seems to have been with Dallas, why couldn’t Randle’s role change to that of a PF who can hit rebound and hit an open shot? If that were to,happen, assuming Randle would accept that role, then the questions is about what to,do,with Toppin. One of those guys would need to be go.
Because if he gets the ball, it typically sticks. He tries to dribble into double teams, puts up bad shots, turns it over, etc.
This. Once he has the ball, it rarely moves. Even at his "best" this was true.
Montero is the type of player that I could see excelling in summer league. I'm most excited to see what he and Keels look like. It sucks Rokas isn't playing
Agreed. Less fun than most seasons. No Rokas (not that he was "expected") is kinda bummer too.
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anniversary guys! 9 years ago today Bargnani became a Knick!
Not complete without the gif...
This will always be the definitive Bargnani gif for me
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but that roster is a tough sell. I love Grimes but we kinda already know what he is. I'm sure Deuce will go off.
Agreed. Less fun than most seasons. No Rokas (not that he was "expected") is kinda bummer too.
Most summer league teams suck. Last year was probably the pinnacle. Having Grimes, McBride, and Sims will be very fun.
Playing his brand of great defense
That's why I stated Simms. If Randle is moved, we become very thin at PF. Taj isn't signed and even if he is, you don't want Taj playing decent minutes at PF. Is Reddish really a PF? Not to me. Simms has a chance to possibly stick if Randle is moved and nobody else is brought in.
I am nearly sure I tried to make peace with it.
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epic thread when the Bargnani trade went down.
I am nearly sure I tried to make peace with it.
Coming off 54 wins i definitely defended it, saying ehh 1st round pick will be late
If you went and snagged ayton for some
Sort of sign and trade with any of the Mitch Randle cam pieces
You could run out a fun young timeline and better fit for the team and pieces we have
Brunson/grimes/rj/obi/ayton
you might be right - but to me it's the Ron Baker contract.
In almost all of the stupid moves they've made, you can usually at least see what they were thinking - even if the thinking was incredibly flawed. But with Baker, it was just LOL hysterical and sad the minute it was announced.
You mean average startong salary for a PG?
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In comment 15744521 DanMetroMan said:
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anniversary guys! 9 years ago today Bargnani became a Knick!
Not complete without the gif...
This will always be the definitive Bargnani gif for me
He clearly altered that shot!
Blocking foul. Brilliant drive to the basket by a brilliantly talented stretch big.
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...trading for Bargnani might have been the nadir. No one else on earth would have given up anything for that clown but Steve Mills.
you might be right - but to me it's the Ron Baker contract.
In almost all of the stupid moves they've made, you can usually at least see what they were thinking - even if the thinking was incredibly flawed. But with Baker, it was just LOL hysterical and sad the minute it was announced.
Ron Baker-$9,586,786 career earnings... 14 career starts
That thread was gold. So many people were good with the trade and saying the 1st rounder had no value. How'd that work out?
And then compounded the mistake by refusing to trade another first round pick in a deal for Kyle Lowry that would've been signed sealed and delivered. Lowry would have been an absolutely perfect fit with that team.
Maybe take a peek at PG salaries around the league. This is like complaining about paying big money to a LT or DE, even above average ones cost a ton of money on the open market.
Robert Randolph
@robertrandolph
If the UtAh trade invoking Randle and 5 foster round picks happens. Knicks will sign Drummond for rebounding to go make OBI non rebounding
I thought it was Shumpert and the pick, no? I was opposed to it at the time.
It's some chips. Not all.
We need a god damned PG!!! It's the most important position in the NBA or close to it. We have nothing. Here's a good guy aged 25 who brings us what we need and we don't want him because he would be paid like a league average PG?
I just don't get it. Tanking is a death sentence and we aren't going to be that bad to begin with.
the fan in the lower right corner gets it.
I remember a lot of us on BBI were LAUGHING when we heard the Wizards were going to give him max... joke was on us lol
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for Lowry after the Bargnani trade so... Kevin Knox!
I thought it was Shumpert and the pick, no? I was opposed to it at the time.
Yes Shumpert and the pick. They wound up trading Shumpert a year later anyways for Lance Thomas and a Cavs 2nd rounder
FA doesn't open until 6, what is there really to discuss right now?
My initial take was horror. I don't know why I pivoted like I did...sometimes I think I just hate seeing the truth, which BBI was bringing that day.
God what a nightmare of a signing he was. And he all but admitted he didn't even try here. Fucking asshole.
Just getting ourselves the proper frame of mind for when Brunson leaves us holding the bag.
It's somewhat cathartic. And hopefully it reverse jinxes us.
If Houston doesn't erode his knees he would have been fine even if he was overpaid. He was one of the best pure SGs in the league before his body betrayed us all. Like Dan said at least there's some sense in that move while others were completely loony.
Yes they were all bad - but those 3 guys, despite their flaws (fat, fat, missed easy dunks and layups), actually belonged in the league and were simply overpaid. Ron Baker was literally NOT an NBA player.
1 year-great
2 years-ok
3 years-no bueno
4 years-terrible
Layden is also the guy who engineered the disastrous Ewing trade which was the push that sent them hurtling into the abyss. Instead of just letting Ewing play out his contract, the deal trapped them in cap hell for what seemed like forever.
Let’s see how it plays out.
Not sure how he’s not worth being paid #15 at his position
So the Giants aren’t allowed to tank but the Knicks are??
In fairness, the comedy of the Baker deal was giving him a player option for a second year, Ron Baker? lol
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in the history of the NBA...a 2 year 9 milion dollar deal doesn't crack the top 10.
In fairness, the comedy of the Baker deal was giving him a player option for a second year, Ron Baker? lol
LOL, Baker had all the leverage.
I think he was really impressive last year. There's a fantastic thread on him, with film cuts, here
https://twitter.com/FrankBarrett119/status/1542544968581013504?t=phC0KIqVQ8SgF0f3RAgh3A&s=09
I think he was really impressive last year. There's a fantastic thread on him, with film cuts, here
https://twitter.com/FrankBarrett119/status/1542544968581013504?t=phC0KIqVQ8SgF0f3RAgh3A&s=09
I love his game. There was nothing not to like last year other than the injury.
So was Jeremy Lin.
I think he was really impressive last year. There's a fantastic thread on him, with film cuts, here
https://twitter.com/FrankBarrett119/status/1542544968581013504?t=phC0KIqVQ8SgF0f3RAgh3A&s=09
Also, I am so accustomed to Knicks players shooting 3s but only hitting them on a catch and shoot. Almost every time a player dribbles and shoots it is almost always a miss except for Quick but he annoyed me for so long with his shot selection. Grimes just seems to get it. He knows how to play basketball. And his ability to create space himself and still be able to drill a 3 was very impressive to me. It may not be impressive compared to other quality NBA players but I was impressed based on years of seeing stagnant 3 point shooters.
Mavs are a first round exit without him.
That's a few exits north of Jeremy Lin.
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In 6 games (with or without Luca) was better than Mitchell. Let’s hope that’s the player he will continue to be.
So was Jeremy Lin.
Lin came out of nowhere. Brunson won two national championships and was player of the year. He’s gotten better every year he’s played since his freshman year of college. There’s no reason to believe last year was a fluke and every reason to think the opposite.
Brunson
RJB
Grimes
Obi
IQ
McBride
and without Randle poisoning the cocktail
I am lukewarm on Robinson (esp at the $ discussed) and down on Reddish
Nothing outside of the bigs stuff that seems to have any legs
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In comment 15744642 Carl in CT said:
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In 6 games (with or without Luca) was better than Mitchell. Let’s hope that’s the player he will continue to be.
So was Jeremy Lin.
Lin came out of nowhere. Brunson won two national championships and was player of the year. He’s gotten better every year he’s played since his freshman year of college. There’s no reason to believe last year was a fluke and every reason to think the opposite.
Relax....
Comparing 6 games against Mitchell is not a reason for future expectations.. read the comments before you defend your boy.
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In 6 games (with or without Luca) was better than Mitchell. Let’s hope that’s the player he will continue to be.
So was Jeremy Lin.
Lin was for real. Problem was he played damn near recklessly by attacking the basket at a relentless pace and his body broke down. Lin's spectacular month was real problem was his body couldn't sustain that level of play.
Brunson doesn't play that way and are we going to live in fear and chalk up every young player as a mirage? They aren't all fake.
I'd love to replace Randle with Brunson in terms of this team. Just in terms of watchability. We have three firsts next year. Chances we can land a star with one of those isn't bad!
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In comment 15744642 Carl in CT said:
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In 6 games (with or without Luca) was better than Mitchell. Let’s hope that’s the player he will continue to be.
So was Jeremy Lin.
Lin was for real. Problem was he played damn near recklessly by attacking the basket at a relentless pace and his body broke down. Lin's spectacular month was real problem was his body couldn't sustain that level of play.
Brunson doesn't play that way and are we going to live in fear and chalk up every young player as a mirage? They aren't all fake.
I will Say it again
"you can't judge a 6 game window as his career" not saying Brunson is that but expecting the 6 games to be him for the rest of his career is not a good expectation.
If you get his per 36 last season -18 and 8 it's more than I currently expect and would be a great.
I want to see a winning team it's been 40 years of disappointment for me.
Same with Rose making all the right decision.
I just don't see what everyone sees from Brunson and I have debated other players on here and been right and wrong. I will be happy to apologize on the game tread when I am wrong might even buy a Brunson jersey for good measure.(put it next to the Lin jersey) LMAO.
I want to see a winning team it's been 40 years of disappointment for me.
Same with Rose making all the right decision.
I just don't see what everyone sees from Brunson and I have debated other players on here and been right and wrong. I will be happy to apologize on the game tread when I am wrong might even buy a Brunson jersey for good measure.(put it next to the Lin jersey) LMAO.
It's your right to disagree. It's definitely intertesting. (I really hope you're wrong.) I'm just surprised is all. We usually have similar POVs.
I get it but the jump is big to be the man and the guy everyone is keying on.
Playing with house money until this point. I am not sold that with his size and lack of athleticism is going to translate more than what he is now.
I don't care about the money, you have to pay in FA but I don't think he moves the needle.
This seemed likely due to the fact that you heard nothing about interest, visits, etc...
I think a team of Brunson, RJ, Obi with whomever ends up starting with Quickly, Grimes, Mitch, Fournier, Rose can be a young team and young all-star player would want to join.
However, if Thibs ends up playing Rose/Randle/RJ/Brunson/Taj, none of this make sense.
And that's not to shit on Lin...that was a really fun month and I thank him for that.
C - Mitch 28/Jericho 12/JR 8
PF - JR 24/Obi 24
HA HA HA HA
Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn
Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irving had no contact with the franchise after Irving opted into his deal on Monday, and a sense of inevitability existed that Durant would eventually ask for a trade, sources tell ESPN. It happened today.
Then add in that Durant asked out? Might not be the time to be trading picks, even if isnt necessarily your own.
Then add in that Durant asked out? Might not be the time to be trading picks, even if isnt necessarily your own.
One of the more bizarre trade timing I can remember in recent history
JR/RJ/IQ/Obi/Grimes/Deuce and a lot of unprotected picks?
20 8 & 4 sounds like a realistic estimate for Brunson.
I agree. I still think GSW is the model. Build through the draft.
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Someone else can have that loser.
I agree. I still think GSW is the model. Build through the draft.
Lotta luck involved in that model, but yeah. Look at the 2 biggest homegrown dynasties in the past 20 years and both built through teh draft and had some luck. San Antonio and GS
So was Jeremy Lin.
So glad you mentioned him because he is a perfect example of a team giving a contract to a point guard and then not being able to acquire a star player later which is why Houston was unable to get James Harden when OKC made him available. They had already used some of their available resources on Jeremy
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In comment 15744794 Kmed6000 said:
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Someone else can have that loser.
I agree. I still think GSW is the model. Build through the draft.
Lotta luck involved in that model, but yeah. Look at the 2 biggest homegrown dynasties in the past 20 years and both built through teh draft and had some luck. San Antonio and GS
Even CLE won with players they drafted when you think about it.
It's comforting to me that football isn't the only sport that you're f*cking clueless about.
Yep. Looking forward to next year's draft. We might be able to double dip even (if they don't trade too much).
This may be a side effect of the CBA which allows their current team to give them the most money. Its not incentivizing guys to stay, its incentivizing them to sign a massive deal and then demand a trade.
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is what i cant deal with. If you want the financial stability of taking the big deal, then you take the deal and thats where you play. If you want to pick where you play all the time then you sign short deals. Like if Donovan Mitchell doesnt want to be in Utah then he shouldnt have signed that huge extension. He should have played out his current deal and then picked his team. You cant have your cake and eat it to.
This may be a side effect of the CBA which allows their current team to give them the most money. Its not incentivizing guys to stay, its incentivizing them to sign a massive deal and then demand a trade.
The contracts should have voids if they get traded. If you switch teams, your salary goes back to the market rate.
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In comment 15744828 Italianju said:
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is what i cant deal with. If you want the financial stability of taking the big deal, then you take the deal and thats where you play. If you want to pick where you play all the time then you sign short deals. Like if Donovan Mitchell doesnt want to be in Utah then he shouldnt have signed that huge extension. He should have played out his current deal and then picked his team. You cant have your cake and eat it to.
This may be a side effect of the CBA which allows their current team to give them the most money. Its not incentivizing guys to stay, its incentivizing them to sign a massive deal and then demand a trade.
The contracts should have voids if they get traded. If you switch teams, your salary goes back to the market rate.
100%, but that would require the league to play hardball when they negotiate and I don't htink they have the balls(no pun intended)
@tribjazz
Interesting day for Donovan Mitchell: BFF Eric Paschall not given a QO, protege Trent Forrest also not given a QO, and now friend Royce O’Neale traded away.
The NFLPA is the worse union in sports. The NBA isn't as lucky as the NFL. Plus, fewer players allows for more solidarity, more worker power.
@tribjazz
Interesting day for Donovan Mitchell: BFF Eric Paschall not given a QO, protege Trent Forrest also not given a QO, and now friend Royce O’Neale traded away.
Utah looks to be clearing roster spots
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Eric Walden
@tribjazz
Interesting day for Donovan Mitchell: BFF Eric Paschall not given a QO, protege Trent Forrest also not given a QO, and now friend Royce O’Neale traded away.
Utah looks to be clearing roster spots
Any rumors of Mitchell trades?
Even CLE won with players they drafted when you think about it.
When you get the number one pick so many times over a dozen years, you can overcome making the worst number one pick of all time and still win a ‘Ship.
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In comment 15744848 Strahan91 said:
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Eric Walden
@tribjazz
Interesting day for Donovan Mitchell: BFF Eric Paschall not given a QO, protege Trent Forrest also not given a QO, and now friend Royce O’Neale traded away.
Utah looks to be clearing roster spots
Any rumors of Mitchell trades?
only thing i saw was mannix saying he is hearing that Ainge might want to blow it up
Isola loves when there's a connecton to the 90s knicks. Rick was probably a source for his book on the 99 team lol.
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still somewhat baffling to me that the Knicks think Brunson is worth that amount of money
It's comforting to me that football isn't the only sport that you're f*cking clueless about.
For a guy who wanted to always see how Gettlemans moves panned out in 2021 it’s odd he’s not willing to let this play out.
Brunson is very good. I was told by an exec that if it wasn’t such a cash strapped year for teams and more had space the market would be big for him
Nah
Thanks for your service!
And Blackwell and Duncan on First Take thought he was wrong.
You are missing the point. On that draft night in which the Celts made their big moves; first they traded for Ray Allen. - Then Mark Jackson went on to rip the trade. At that moment rightfully so. He said Pierce and Ray Allen isn't enough explaining why (just as for example "Brunson and Randle" isn't enough.).
***Then later the trade for Garnett was announced, then he apologized to Ainge and now it was clear the moves made were super beucase you had The Big Three. The point is Garnett wasn't coming until he saw what the Celts were doing. As for the Knicks-- the superstar player probably doesn't give a crap about Brunson. Or Randle.
If they could attract then it is a great move - they do give a crap. But if they can’t - then the move made - it is meaningless. As a result, the point you are making about Garnett and Allen is irrelevant because "Garnett" isn't coming to play with "Brunson and Randle." But would come to play with "Pierce and Allen."
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He's not a flash in the pan
I get it but the jump is big to be the man and the guy everyone is keying on.
Playing with house money until this point. I am not sold that with his size and lack of athleticism is going to translate more than what he is now.
I don't care about the money, you have to pay in FA but I don't think he moves the needle.
+1
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even if you don't win a championship via the draft, it still allows you to use those assets in a trade. See Boston. Drafted Pierce and Rondo, but were able to trade for Garnett and Allen. I think the moral is, you have to be able to draft well to have success in teh NBA.
You are missing the point. On that draft night in which the Celts made their big moves; first they traded for Ray Allen. - Then Mark Jackson went on to rip the trade. At that moment rightfully so. He said Pierce and Ray Allen isn't enough explaining why (just as for example "Brunson and Randle" isn't enough.).
***Then later the trade for Garnett was announced, then he apologized to Ainge and now it was clear the moves made were super beucase you had The Big Three. The point is Garnett wasn't coming until he saw what the Celts were doing. As for the Knicks-- the superstar player probably doesn't give a crap about Brunson. Or Randle.
If they could attract then it is a great move - they do give a crap. But if they can’t - then the move made - it is meaningless. As a result, the point you are making about Garnett and Allen is irrelevant because "Garnett" isn't coming to play with "Brunson and Randle." But would come to play with "Pierce and Allen."
I'm not missing any point. I know exactly what you are saying and I agree and disagree. Brunson and Randle aren't bringing a superstar at this point, but if the Knicks win 45-48 games and win a playoff series, players will want to come here. It's a very enticing place to play and if we are good, players will come.
This is the point you are missing. Just get better and it will attract players. They have a lot of young guys with high ceilings and if these guys can grow, we can become a team that stars want to go to.
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In comment 15744824 Kmed6000 said:
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even if you don't win a championship via the draft, it still allows you to use those assets in a trade. See Boston. Drafted Pierce and Rondo, but were able to trade for Garnett and Allen. I think the moral is, you have to be able to draft well to have success in teh NBA.
You are missing the point. On that draft night in which the Celts made their big moves; first they traded for Ray Allen. - Then Mark Jackson went on to rip the trade. At that moment rightfully so. He said Pierce and Ray Allen isn't enough explaining why (just as for example "Brunson and Randle" isn't enough.).
***Then later the trade for Garnett was announced, then he apologized to Ainge and now it was clear the moves made were super beucase you had The Big Three. The point is Garnett wasn't coming until he saw what the Celts were doing. As for the Knicks-- the superstar player probably doesn't give a crap about Brunson. Or Randle.
If they could attract then it is a great move - they do give a crap. But if they can’t - then the move made - it is meaningless. As a result, the point you are making about Garnett and Allen is irrelevant because "Garnett" isn't coming to play with "Brunson and Randle." But would come to play with "Pierce and Allen."
I'm not missing any point. I know exactly what you are saying and I agree and disagree. Brunson and Randle aren't bringing a superstar at this point, but if the Knicks win 45-48 games and win a playoff series, players will want to come here. It's a very enticing place to play and if we are good, players will come.
This is the point you are missing. Just get better and it will attract players. They have a lot of young guys with high ceilings and if these guys can grow, we can become a team that stars want to go to.
Maybe a disagreement we have is that you think they are going to win a playoff series in a way to attract to talent. I think the only way they win a playoff series is if the other team suffers big time injuries.
So some of us who think this trade is in a matter of speak "insignificant" because it won't get the Knicks playoff wins, then we just wasted a lot of time and energy getting yet another tier-two type player in which all that is done is Dolan raises prices and the Knicks go nowhere until Dolan then makes a move and picks up that next "Marbury, Stevie Francis,Kemba/Brunson."
It will be more old news until they get that superstar, and this team isn't going to get you that playoff series victory without a lot of help from the other team. As a result, you will be yet again following an illusion/fantasy which Dolan creates every so often with the likes of aforementioned and then guys like Eddie curry, McDyess, paying Houston so much, Chandler, Amare and then teaming him up with Melo (can you say McAdoo and Spencer Haywood?) - it is just so often the Knicks don’t go after that big time superstar.
And now we see it happening again. And Knick fans kid themselves that the super players are never available yet many times they have been. We either choose to avoid them (for example some posters on here are saying “Fuck Durant.”). I get it the Nets would never trade him to the Knicks but this seems to be the attitude of fans and the front office.
Unwilling to bite the bullet to avoid spending for some years and build your team through a dynamic young player. – Or just hold off the temptation of buying into mediocrity just so you can raise ticket prices, or appease a desperate fan base willing to believe in anything just for a few extra meaningless regular season wins.
It's just 1 move. Maybe the issue was your expectations. It's the first move in the offseason, we have no idea how things will unfold. We added a young, ascending PG to a team that had terrible PG's for a long time. It's just a step forward, its not the final piece.
Dolan has nothing to do with this. I despise the man and think his meddling has been a problem, but he's not meddling anymore, since Phil. This is Rose's team.
I don't want any part of Durant. I think it would be a terrible decision for this team. He's 34 years old, recently tore his Achillis. I don't think he's going to be the same guy. Plus I don't like him. It would be ridiculous to go get Durant after he passed up on the Knicks and laughed at us as he did it. Fuck Durant.
I don't understand your point here.
The goal here is to either go get a mega star or build a competitive team with youth that continues to get better while keeping long term flexibility. The megastar isn't happening, so the latter is what they are doing.
Or just like in the Dave Gettleman early years- we have fans cheerleading.
I'll respond to KNEED later but you are all just posting the same old stuff juts like when so many defended Gettleman.
Then the classic lines of "we're a better team . . ."
How often did we hear after each Giant move on their OLINE- how much "better" our Giants OLIN was getting under the Dg era?
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It's just 1 move. Maybe the issue was your expectations. ... It's just a step forward, its not the final piece.
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Dolan has nothing to do with this. I despise the man and think his meddling has been a problem, but he's not meddling anymore, since Phil. This is Rose's team.
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I don't want any part of Durant. I think it would be a terrible decision for this team.
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I don't understand your point here.
The goal here is to either go get a mega star or build a competitive team with youth that continues to get better while keeping long term flexibility.
Everything you said here is wrong or the context of your philosophy is wrong.
1--- Of course it's not the final move but too many number second-tier players making big bucks will more than likely not attract the superstar. They won't win enough to attract him either.
2---- I just made a comment Dolan is raising ticket prices. So sucker Knicks fans still come to watch teams that are mediocre at best. And it's laughable you think he isn't going to eventually meddle. Spoken like a "true-blue" Knicks fan.
3--- Your Durant comment just further illustrates that fans like you are part of the problem along with Dolan. You avoid getting the superstar with make-believe/fantasy alternatives which in the end the superstar eventually never comes. Thus feeding into Dolan's other alternative of getting 2nd-teir players that never can match up to the contending teams.
4--- As far as your point regarding goals, you left out one major thing. And that is that you have competition for the superstar so when you get guys like Brunson, re-sign Randle etc that takes away CHOCIES the superstar would have coming to your team. Years ago we had the money to get LeBron but Miami had BETTER options for him.
By now getting Brunson, and signing Randle - and probably we sign Barrett to a big contract - then you have just LIMITED the choices of the superstar while another team or other teams won't. As a result, there will probably will always be better alternatives than the Knicks when they make these type of Brunson and Randle moves.
And back above regarding your comment about "my expectations." It's not me that is wrong here. It's YOUR EXPEXTATIOSN of getting good enough to win a playoff series to show the superstar that the Knicks can be fine place to come is what is wrong. And your entire philosophy of someone similar/like Durant.
You hold an unrealistic value on the 2nd-ter player and not enough for the superstar. Bottomline: A goal should be to allow the superstar as many choices as possible. Instead- you’re limiting him if the Knicks don’t at least win a playoff series with young talent. And sadly, that’s not going to happen.
You can find superstars not in the top 5.
You can find superstars not in the top 5.
Agree. Meanwhile, the most complete summer league roster I've seen so far is linked right ...
...here - ( New Window )
Absolutely. But I did bring that up- which the poster KNEED said he didn't understand. Below is what said:
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Unwilling to bite the bullet to avoid spending for some years and build your team through a dynamic young player. – Or just hold off the temptation of buying into mediocrity just so you can raise ticket prices, or appease a desperate fan base willing to believe in anything just for a few extra meaningless regular season wins.
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As I said above about being "unwilling to bite the bullet," - meaning - lose a few years near the bottom even if it is not top 5.
But now with Brunson- and with what they are doing with the rest of the team-- you aren't getting near the top 5. And the at some point being mediocre is the worst places to be.
And as I said-- '
"All for a few extra regular season wins. . ."