for display only
Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

NFT: Knicks Free Agency Eve thread

Italianju : 6/29/2022 12:09 pm
Trying to consolidate the threads. Lots of speculation on those threads but the more solid stuff is:

-Expectation is Brunson will sign with the Knicks on a 4/110 mill deal.

-Mitch rumored to be around 4/60 but there seems to be a lot of debate on that

-Knicks have about 30 mill available but can get to around 37 easily.



Pages: 1 2 3 ... 10 11 12 <<Prev | Show All |
RE: RE: RE: Fuck Durant.  
adamg : 6/30/2022 3:32 pm : link
In comment 15744814 Kmed6000 said:
Quote:
In comment 15744810 adamg said:


Quote:


In comment 15744794 Kmed6000 said:


Quote:


Someone else can have that loser.



I agree. I still think GSW is the model. Build through the draft.



Lotta luck involved in that model, but yeah. Look at the 2 biggest homegrown dynasties in the past 20 years and both built through teh draft and had some luck. San Antonio and GS


Even CLE won with players they drafted when you think about it.
RE: ...  
Gatorade Dunk : 6/30/2022 3:33 pm : link
In comment 15744583 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
still somewhat baffling to me that the Knicks think Brunson is worth that amount of money

It's comforting to me that football isn't the only sport that you're f*cking clueless about.
adam,  
Kmed6000 : 6/30/2022 3:36 pm : link
even if you don't win a championship via the draft, it still allows you to use those assets in a trade. See Boston. Drafted Pierce and Rondo, but were able to trade for Garnett and Allen. I think the moral is, you have to be able to draft well to have success in teh NBA.
the player movement after signing contracts...  
Italianju : 6/30/2022 3:37 pm : link
is what i cant deal with. If you want the financial stability of taking the big deal, then you take the deal and thats where you play. If you want to pick where you play all the time then you sign short deals. Like if Donovan Mitchell doesnt want to be in Utah then he shouldnt have signed that huge extension. He should have played out his current deal and then picked his team. You cant have your cake and eat it to.
RE: adam,  
adamg : 6/30/2022 3:37 pm : link
In comment 15744824 Kmed6000 said:
Quote:
even if you don't win a championship via the draft, it still allows you to use those assets in a trade. See Boston. Drafted Pierce and Rondo, but were able to trade for Garnett and Allen. I think the moral is, you have to be able to draft well to have success in teh NBA.


Yep. Looking forward to next year's draft. We might be able to double dip even (if they don't trade too much).
RE: the player movement after signing contracts...  
Kmed6000 : 6/30/2022 3:40 pm : link
In comment 15744828 Italianju said:
Quote:
is what i cant deal with. If you want the financial stability of taking the big deal, then you take the deal and thats where you play. If you want to pick where you play all the time then you sign short deals. Like if Donovan Mitchell doesnt want to be in Utah then he shouldnt have signed that huge extension. He should have played out his current deal and then picked his team. You cant have your cake and eat it to.


This may be a side effect of the CBA which allows their current team to give them the most money. Its not incentivizing guys to stay, its incentivizing them to sign a massive deal and then demand a trade.
RE: RE: the player movement after signing contracts...  
adamg : 6/30/2022 3:42 pm : link
In comment 15744836 Kmed6000 said:
Quote:
In comment 15744828 Italianju said:


Quote:


is what i cant deal with. If you want the financial stability of taking the big deal, then you take the deal and thats where you play. If you want to pick where you play all the time then you sign short deals. Like if Donovan Mitchell doesnt want to be in Utah then he shouldnt have signed that huge extension. He should have played out his current deal and then picked his team. You cant have your cake and eat it to.



This may be a side effect of the CBA which allows their current team to give them the most money. Its not incentivizing guys to stay, its incentivizing them to sign a massive deal and then demand a trade.


The contracts should have voids if they get traded. If you switch teams, your salary goes back to the market rate.
RE: RE: RE: the player movement after signing contracts...  
Kmed6000 : 6/30/2022 3:43 pm : link
In comment 15744839 adamg said:
Quote:
In comment 15744836 Kmed6000 said:


Quote:


In comment 15744828 Italianju said:


Quote:


is what i cant deal with. If you want the financial stability of taking the big deal, then you take the deal and thats where you play. If you want to pick where you play all the time then you sign short deals. Like if Donovan Mitchell doesnt want to be in Utah then he shouldnt have signed that huge extension. He should have played out his current deal and then picked his team. You cant have your cake and eat it to.



This may be a side effect of the CBA which allows their current team to give them the most money. Its not incentivizing guys to stay, its incentivizing them to sign a massive deal and then demand a trade.



The contracts should have voids if they get traded. If you switch teams, your salary goes back to the market rate.


100%, but that would require the league to play hardball when they negotiate and I don't htink they have the balls(no pun intended)
Utah reporter  
Strahan91 : 6/30/2022 3:45 pm : link
Eric Walden
@tribjazz
Interesting day for Donovan Mitchell: BFF Eric Paschall not given a QO, protege Trent Forrest also not given a QO, and now friend Royce O’Neale traded away.
every time the league tries  
Enzo : 6/30/2022 3:46 pm : link
to "fix" the CBA to give them teams more control over drafted stars, they end up making it worse. Of course the NFL doesn't have this problem. You wonder if the NBA implemented an NFL style hard cap with no maxes or exceptions, they could avoid a lot of this nonsense.
RE: every time the league tries  
adamg : 6/30/2022 3:48 pm : link
In comment 15744852 Enzo said:
Quote:
to "fix" the CBA to give them teams more control over drafted stars, they end up making it worse. Of course the NFL doesn't have this problem. You wonder if the NBA implemented an NFL style hard cap with no maxes or exceptions, they could avoid a lot of this nonsense.


The NFLPA is the worse union in sports. The NBA isn't as lucky as the NFL. Plus, fewer players allows for more solidarity, more worker power.
RE: Utah reporter  
nygiants16 : 6/30/2022 3:49 pm : link
In comment 15744848 Strahan91 said:
Quote:
Eric Walden
@tribjazz
Interesting day for Donovan Mitchell: BFF Eric Paschall not given a QO, protege Trent Forrest also not given a QO, and now friend Royce O’Neale traded away.


Utah looks to be clearing roster spots
RE: RE: Utah reporter  
adamg : 6/30/2022 3:50 pm : link
In comment 15744854 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 15744848 Strahan91 said:


Quote:


Eric Walden
@tribjazz
Interesting day for Donovan Mitchell: BFF Eric Paschall not given a QO, protege Trent Forrest also not given a QO, and now friend Royce O’Neale traded away.



Utah looks to be clearing roster spots


Any rumors of Mitchell trades?
RE: RE: RE: RE: Fuck Durant.  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 6/30/2022 3:56 pm : link
In comment 15744818 adamg said:
Quote:


Even CLE won with players they drafted when you think about it.


When you get the number one pick so many times over a dozen years, you can overcome making the worst number one pick of all time and still win a ‘Ship.
safe to say Brooklyn isn't trading  
Enzo : 6/30/2022 3:56 pm : link
KD to MSG - but do we want to make a play for anyone else? Harris? Curry?
RE: RE: RE: Utah reporter  
nygiants16 : 6/30/2022 3:56 pm : link
In comment 15744858 adamg said:
Quote:
In comment 15744854 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


In comment 15744848 Strahan91 said:


Quote:


Eric Walden
@tribjazz
Interesting day for Donovan Mitchell: BFF Eric Paschall not given a QO, protege Trent Forrest also not given a QO, and now friend Royce O’Neale traded away.



Utah looks to be clearing roster spots



Any rumors of Mitchell trades?


only thing i saw was mannix saying he is hearing that Ainge might want to blow it up
Frank Isola of all people  
bceagle05 : 6/30/2022 4:04 pm : link
lavishing praise on Jalen Brunson and saying it would be a "great move" for the Knicks. Brought up Kyle Lowry's Raptors years as a comp.
RE: Frank Isola of all people  
Enzo : 6/30/2022 4:21 pm : link
In comment 15744880 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
lavishing praise on Jalen Brunson and saying it would be a "great move" for the Knicks. Brought up Kyle Lowry's Raptors years as a comp.

Isola loves when there's a connecton to the 90s knicks. Rick was probably a source for his book on the 99 team lol.
Yeah you're right on....  
bceagle05 : 6/30/2022 4:29 pm : link
He gave the whole Brunson/Thibs/Rose history lesson.
RE: RE: ...  
ajr2456 : 6/30/2022 4:32 pm : link
In comment 15744819 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 15744583 ryanmkeane said:


Quote:


still somewhat baffling to me that the Knicks think Brunson is worth that amount of money


It's comforting to me that football isn't the only sport that you're f*cking clueless about.


For a guy who wanted to always see how Gettlemans moves panned out in 2021 it’s odd he’s not willing to let this play out.

Brunson is very good. I was told by an exec that if it wasn’t such a cash strapped year for teams and more had space the market would be big for him
RE: safe to say Brooklyn isn't trading  
adamg : 6/30/2022 4:48 pm : link
In comment 15744869 Enzo said:
Quote:
KD to MSG - but do we want to make a play for anyone else? Harris? Curry?


Nah
Word is DAL called off Brunson meeting  
adamg : 6/30/2022 5:01 pm : link
LFG
Looks like Brunson to Knicks is done  
nygiants16 : 6/30/2022 5:01 pm : link
meeting with mavs is not happening
$110  
ajr2456 : 6/30/2022 5:03 pm : link
For Brunson. Likely incentives to get the last 10
About damn time we had something to get excited about  
Mike in NJ : 6/30/2022 5:15 pm : link
At the start of free agency! So used to disappointment every summer, feels nice to finally be able to be happy about the direction the team is headed.
RE: $110  
Ten Ton Hammer : 6/30/2022 5:15 pm : link
In comment 15744954 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
For Brunson. Likely incentives to get the last 10


Thanks for your service!
RE: Frank Isola of all people  
giantstock : 7/1/2022 12:23 pm : link
In comment 15744880 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
lavishing praise on Jalen Brunson and saying it would be a "great move" for the Knicks. Brought up Kyle Lowry's Raptors years as a comp.


And Blackwell and Duncan on First Take thought he was wrong.
RE: adam,  
giantstock : 7/1/2022 12:42 pm : link
In comment 15744824 Kmed6000 said:
Quote:
even if you don't win a championship via the draft, it still allows you to use those assets in a trade. See Boston. Drafted Pierce and Rondo, but were able to trade for Garnett and Allen. I think the moral is, you have to be able to draft well to have success in teh NBA.


You are missing the point. On that draft night in which the Celts made their big moves; first they traded for Ray Allen. - Then Mark Jackson went on to rip the trade. At that moment rightfully so. He said Pierce and Ray Allen isn't enough explaining why (just as for example "Brunson and Randle" isn't enough.).

***Then later the trade for Garnett was announced, then he apologized to Ainge and now it was clear the moves made were super beucase you had The Big Three. The point is Garnett wasn't coming until he saw what the Celts were doing. As for the Knicks-- the superstar player probably doesn't give a crap about Brunson. Or Randle.

If they could attract then it is a great move - they do give a crap. But if they can’t - then the move made - it is meaningless. As a result, the point you are making about Garnett and Allen is irrelevant because "Garnett" isn't coming to play with "Brunson and Randle." But would come to play with "Pierce and Allen."
RE: RE: 50/37/80 career  
giantstock : 7/1/2022 12:44 pm : link
In comment 15744703 larryflower37 said:
Quote:
In comment 15744693 adamg said:


Quote:


He's not a flash in the pan


I get it but the jump is big to be the man and the guy everyone is keying on.
Playing with house money until this point. I am not sold that with his size and lack of athleticism is going to translate more than what he is now.
I don't care about the money, you have to pay in FA but I don't think he moves the needle.


+1
RE: RE: adam,  
Kmed6000 : 7/1/2022 1:08 pm : link
In comment 15745798 giantstock said:
Quote:
In comment 15744824 Kmed6000 said:


Quote:


even if you don't win a championship via the draft, it still allows you to use those assets in a trade. See Boston. Drafted Pierce and Rondo, but were able to trade for Garnett and Allen. I think the moral is, you have to be able to draft well to have success in teh NBA.



You are missing the point. On that draft night in which the Celts made their big moves; first they traded for Ray Allen. - Then Mark Jackson went on to rip the trade. At that moment rightfully so. He said Pierce and Ray Allen isn't enough explaining why (just as for example "Brunson and Randle" isn't enough.).

***Then later the trade for Garnett was announced, then he apologized to Ainge and now it was clear the moves made were super beucase you had The Big Three. The point is Garnett wasn't coming until he saw what the Celts were doing. As for the Knicks-- the superstar player probably doesn't give a crap about Brunson. Or Randle.

If they could attract then it is a great move - they do give a crap. But if they can’t - then the move made - it is meaningless. As a result, the point you are making about Garnett and Allen is irrelevant because "Garnett" isn't coming to play with "Brunson and Randle." But would come to play with "Pierce and Allen."


I'm not missing any point. I know exactly what you are saying and I agree and disagree. Brunson and Randle aren't bringing a superstar at this point, but if the Knicks win 45-48 games and win a playoff series, players will want to come here. It's a very enticing place to play and if we are good, players will come.

This is the point you are missing. Just get better and it will attract players. They have a lot of young guys with high ceilings and if these guys can grow, we can become a team that stars want to go to.
RE: RE: RE: adam,  
giantstock : 7/1/2022 1:32 pm : link
In comment 15745814 Kmed6000 said:
Quote:
In comment 15745798 giantstock said:


Quote:


In comment 15744824 Kmed6000 said:


Quote:


even if you don't win a championship via the draft, it still allows you to use those assets in a trade. See Boston. Drafted Pierce and Rondo, but were able to trade for Garnett and Allen. I think the moral is, you have to be able to draft well to have success in teh NBA.



You are missing the point. On that draft night in which the Celts made their big moves; first they traded for Ray Allen. - Then Mark Jackson went on to rip the trade. At that moment rightfully so. He said Pierce and Ray Allen isn't enough explaining why (just as for example "Brunson and Randle" isn't enough.).

***Then later the trade for Garnett was announced, then he apologized to Ainge and now it was clear the moves made were super beucase you had The Big Three. The point is Garnett wasn't coming until he saw what the Celts were doing. As for the Knicks-- the superstar player probably doesn't give a crap about Brunson. Or Randle.

If they could attract then it is a great move - they do give a crap. But if they can’t - then the move made - it is meaningless. As a result, the point you are making about Garnett and Allen is irrelevant because "Garnett" isn't coming to play with "Brunson and Randle." But would come to play with "Pierce and Allen."



I'm not missing any point. I know exactly what you are saying and I agree and disagree. Brunson and Randle aren't bringing a superstar at this point, but if the Knicks win 45-48 games and win a playoff series, players will want to come here. It's a very enticing place to play and if we are good, players will come.

This is the point you are missing. Just get better and it will attract players. They have a lot of young guys with high ceilings and if these guys can grow, we can become a team that stars want to go to.


Maybe a disagreement we have is that you think they are going to win a playoff series in a way to attract to talent. I think the only way they win a playoff series is if the other team suffers big time injuries.

So some of us who think this trade is in a matter of speak "insignificant" because it won't get the Knicks playoff wins, then we just wasted a lot of time and energy getting yet another tier-two type player in which all that is done is Dolan raises prices and the Knicks go nowhere until Dolan then makes a move and picks up that next "Marbury, Stevie Francis,Kemba/Brunson."

It will be more old news until they get that superstar, and this team isn't going to get you that playoff series victory without a lot of help from the other team. As a result, you will be yet again following an illusion/fantasy which Dolan creates every so often with the likes of aforementioned and then guys like Eddie curry, McDyess, paying Houston so much, Chandler, Amare and then teaming him up with Melo (can you say McAdoo and Spencer Haywood?) - it is just so often the Knicks don’t go after that big time superstar.

And now we see it happening again. And Knick fans kid themselves that the super players are never available yet many times they have been. We either choose to avoid them (for example some posters on here are saying “Fuck Durant.”). I get it the Nets would never trade him to the Knicks but this seems to be the attitude of fans and the front office.

Unwilling to bite the bullet to avoid spending for some years and build your team through a dynamic young player. – Or just hold off the temptation of buying into mediocrity just so you can raise ticket prices, or appease a desperate fan base willing to believe in anything just for a few extra meaningless regular season wins.

Celtics are getting Brogdon  
Strahan91 : 7/1/2022 1:37 pm : link
.
RE: RE: RE: RE: adam,  
Kmed6000 : 7/1/2022 2:09 pm : link
Quote:
Maybe a disagreement we have is that you think they are going to win a playoff series in a way to attract to talent. I think the only way they win a playoff series is if the other team suffers big time injuries. So some of us who think this trade is in a matter of speak "insignificant" because it won't get the Knicks playoff wins, then we just wasted a lot of time and energy getting yet another tier-two type player in which all that is done is Dolan raises prices and the Knicks go nowhere until Dolan then makes a move and picks up that next "Marbury, Stevie Francis,Kemba/Brunson."


It's just 1 move. Maybe the issue was your expectations. It's the first move in the offseason, we have no idea how things will unfold. We added a young, ascending PG to a team that had terrible PG's for a long time. It's just a step forward, its not the final piece.

Quote:
It will be more old news until they get that superstar, and this team isn't going to get you that playoff series victory without a lot of help from the other team. As a result, you will be yet again following an illusion/fantasy which Dolan creates every so often with the likes of aforementioned and then guys like Eddie curry, McDyess, paying Houston so much, Chandler, Amare and then teaming him up with Melo (can you say McAdoo and Spencer Haywood?) - it is just so often the Knicks don’t go after that big time superstar.


Dolan has nothing to do with this. I despise the man and think his meddling has been a problem, but he's not meddling anymore, since Phil. This is Rose's team.

Quote:
And now we see it happening again. And Knick fans kid themselves that the super players are never available yet many times they have been. We either choose to avoid them (for example some posters on here are saying “Fuck Durant.”). I get it the Nets would never trade him to the Knicks but this seems to be the attitude of fans and the front office.


I don't want any part of Durant. I think it would be a terrible decision for this team. He's 34 years old, recently tore his Achillis. I don't think he's going to be the same guy. Plus I don't like him. It would be ridiculous to go get Durant after he passed up on the Knicks and laughed at us as he did it. Fuck Durant.

Quote:
Unwilling to bite the bullet to avoid spending for some years and build your team through a dynamic young player. – Or just hold off the temptation of buying into mediocrity just so you can raise ticket prices, or appease a desperate fan base willing to believe in anything just for a few extra meaningless regular season wins.


I don't understand your point here.

The goal here is to either go get a mega star or build a competitive team with youth that continues to get better while keeping long term flexibility. The megastar isn't happening, so the latter is what they are doing.
This is so melodramatic.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 7/1/2022 3:22 pm : link
It's just like was said above. Knicks threads inevitably have someone wallowing in accumulated misery.
RE: This is so melodramatic.  
giantstock : 7/1/2022 5:29 pm : link
In comment 15745909 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
It's just like was said above. Knicks threads inevitably have someone wallowing in accumulated misery.


Or just like in the Dave Gettleman early years- we have fans cheerleading.

I'll respond to KNEED later but you are all just posting the same old stuff juts like when so many defended Gettleman.

Then the classic lines of "we're a better team . . ."
How often did we hear after each Giant move on their OLINE- how much "better" our Giants OLIN was getting under the Dg era?
Knicks should trade for Bogs  
GNewGiants : 7/1/2022 5:37 pm : link
Be a nice fit for them
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: adam,  
giantstock : 7/1/2022 6:21 pm : link
In comment 15745870 Kmed6000 said:
Quote:


Quote:





It's just 1 move. Maybe the issue was your expectations. ... It's just a step forward, its not the final piece.



Quote:



Dolan has nothing to do with this. I despise the man and think his meddling has been a problem, but he's not meddling anymore, since Phil. This is Rose's team.


Quote:




I don't want any part of Durant. I think it would be a terrible decision for this team.

Quote:



I don't understand your point here.

The goal here is to either go get a mega star or build a competitive team with youth that continues to get better while keeping long term flexibility.


Everything you said here is wrong or the context of your philosophy is wrong.

1--- Of course it's not the final move but too many number second-tier players making big bucks will more than likely not attract the superstar. They won't win enough to attract him either.

2---- I just made a comment Dolan is raising ticket prices. So sucker Knicks fans still come to watch teams that are mediocre at best. And it's laughable you think he isn't going to eventually meddle. Spoken like a "true-blue" Knicks fan.

3--- Your Durant comment just further illustrates that fans like you are part of the problem along with Dolan. You avoid getting the superstar with make-believe/fantasy alternatives which in the end the superstar eventually never comes. Thus feeding into Dolan's other alternative of getting 2nd-teir players that never can match up to the contending teams.

4--- As far as your point regarding goals, you left out one major thing. And that is that you have competition for the superstar so when you get guys like Brunson, re-sign Randle etc that takes away CHOCIES the superstar would have coming to your team. Years ago we had the money to get LeBron but Miami had BETTER options for him.

By now getting Brunson, and signing Randle - and probably we sign Barrett to a big contract - then you have just LIMITED the choices of the superstar while another team or other teams won't. As a result, there will probably will always be better alternatives than the Knicks when they make these type of Brunson and Randle moves.

And back above regarding your comment about "my expectations." It's not me that is wrong here. It's YOUR EXPEXTATIOSN of getting good enough to win a playoff series to show the superstar that the Knicks can be fine place to come is what is wrong. And your entire philosophy of someone similar/like Durant.

You hold an unrealistic value on the 2nd-ter player and not enough for the superstar. Bottomline: A goal should be to allow the superstar as many choices as possible. Instead- you’re limiting him if the Knicks don’t at least win a playoff series with young talent. And sadly, that’s not going to happen.

I think the missing piece in this discussion, or at least the  
Del Shofner : 7/1/2022 7:00 pm : link
most recent part of it, is that superstars can be drafted and not necessarily in the top 5. We passed on D. Mitchell for Frankie N. We passed on SGA for Kevin Knox. What if we had drafted more intelligently?
Del.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 7/1/2022 7:05 pm : link
Steph was taken @ 7. Giannis & Kawhi @ 15. The Joker was a SECOND ROUND pick.

You can find superstars not in the top 5.
RE: Del.  
Del Shofner : 7/1/2022 7:10 pm : link
In comment 15746072 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
Steph was taken @ 7. Giannis & Kawhi @ 15. The Joker was a SECOND ROUND pick.

You can find superstars not in the top 5.


Agree. Meanwhile, the most complete summer league roster I've seen so far is linked right ...
...here - ( New Window )
RE: I think the missing piece in this discussion, or at least the  
giantstock : 7/1/2022 7:12 pm : link
In comment 15746067 Del Shofner said:
Quote:
most recent part of it, is that superstars can be drafted and not necessarily in the top 5. We passed on D. Mitchell for Frankie N. We passed on SGA for Kevin Knox. What if we had drafted more intelligently?


Absolutely. But I did bring that up- which the poster KNEED said he didn't understand. Below is what said:

============================
Unwilling to bite the bullet to avoid spending for some years and build your team through a dynamic young player. – Or just hold off the temptation of buying into mediocrity just so you can raise ticket prices, or appease a desperate fan base willing to believe in anything just for a few extra meaningless regular season wins.
================================

As I said above about being "unwilling to bite the bullet," - meaning - lose a few years near the bottom even if it is not top 5.

But now with Brunson- and with what they are doing with the rest of the team-- you aren't getting near the top 5. And the at some point being mediocre is the worst places to be.

And as I said-- '
"All for a few extra regular season wins. . ."
Pages: 1 2 3 ... 10 11 12 <<Prev | Show All |
Back to the Corner