Trying to consolidate the threads. Lots of speculation on those threads but the more solid stuff is:
-Expectation is Brunson will sign with the Knicks on a 4/110 mill deal.
-Mitch rumored to be around 4/60 but there seems to be a lot of debate on that
-Knicks have about 30 mill available but can get to around 37 easily.
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In comment 15744410 nygiants16 said:
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In comment 15744393 larryflower37 said:
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In comment 15744386 g56blue10 said:
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Are you so convinced we can’t win more than 5 more games than we did last year ? If we land a legit PG (Brunson), rose is healthy for 15-20 min per game and RJ and the rest of the young players improve we should be significantly better.
Now I do understand that all might not come to fruition but it is certainly possible
Because this team doesn't have the talent to be more than a .500 team even with a competent point guard.
Best case scenario 8th seed and a first round sweep and that's a stretch
Everyone screaming about 37 wins a lot of those wins came in garbage time against other non playoff teams
They were 28-40 and out of the playoffs on march 18th.
Its also when Thibs started trusting Iq and Obi more and they were playing more minutes..
They also blew how many 20 point leads? How many games did they blpw late because they didnt have a Point to run the offense?
They didnt just play non playoff teams at the end of the season...
Even then they didnt have Rose for much of the season, Randle was god awful, Rj was terrible to start the year, they had Kemba and Alec Burks at PG and Thibs probably had his worst year coaching...
So your saying Brunson over Kemba and Burks is not an upgrade?
You are saying Rj wont improve?
Rose wont be healthy? fair criticism
Randle wont be slightly better?
None of the young kids improve?
All the bad things you mentioned are just luck and will change next year?
Just off of talent this is a .500 team and the 9-3 run at the end of the year was fun but in the NBA everyone knows you can judge those games as real. Playoff teams are resting players-non playoff teams are sitting good players for the kids etc.
NY16 what do you see next year give me a win total?
You keep digging in your heals. Basically you don't want the Knicks to ever sign an up n coming star for big but not max money. And why? Because it won't be enough to help the team go from 37 to 57 wins. I guess you think Brunson has peaked and this peak isn't good enough to help the team. Never mind that PG is by far the biggest hole on the team and a 25 year "peaked" good player would do wonders...but ok...
You won't allow for the chance that Brunson isn't the final move. I don't know why.
So where or how are we going from 37 to 52 wins? Wait this out for another 3 years and hope we draft a super star? Never mind that we still could even if we signed Brunson..
You have to believe he is an upcoming star which I don't What we get is a middle of the road PG that made magic in the playoffs and IMO the reality of that will set in and we will be a 500 team with a decent PG.
Why can I have a difference of opinion on the Brunson money aside?
He doesn't move the needle for me and I don't see the tremendous upside that you do.
We will have time to debate this all year.
Just like we have for 2 years on RJ.
I will be willing to admit I am wrong happily if Brunson turns into that player
Not all big contracts are bad. Live a little.
No, but some contracts lead you to trade your lottery pick to get rid of them...
1) He will be addition by subtraction as the ball flows so much better when he is out
2) Frees up time for Obi
3) He was a cancer with his poor body language
At this point, the return is less important as long they don't have to attach assets. He can definitely help a team where he respects the other players, which is why a sign n trade with Phoenix for Ayton is something I hoped for.
Best post of the day. Two very enthusiastic thumbs up for all it.
Not all big contracts are bad. Live a little.
This is laughable it's not about the money it's the player.
He doesn't move the needle and IMO will be an average PG away from Dallas and that system but he is your savior so have at it.
Will he help the team next year yes but .500 is no man's land.
this is why i want Randle gone, if next year Brunson is 20 and 8 and the Knicks are around 41 wins and Rj, Iq and Obi all played well and improved, the Knicks will be set up to add a star to this core..
Brunson is a piece, he is not a savior
If Obi plays more and RJ is the offensive focus on the 1s, he could easily be much worse.
Tim Reynolds
@ByTimReynolds
· 43m
The Heat are not planning to meet with Jalen Brunson today, and they did not have such a meeting scheduled, per league source.
Tim Reynolds
@ByTimReynolds
· 43m
The Heat are not planning to meet with Jalen Brunson today, and they did not have such a meeting scheduled, per league source.
I am going to go with Riley asked Brunson if they had a shot and he told them very little
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but that's a ridiculous trade for the Knicks. 2 unprotected plus a pick swap to a team like the Knicks would be absolutely criminal unless you are talking about a legitimate superstar. Murray is not it.
I'm glad the Knicks aren't bowing to public pressure from the fans. We have to stay patient and make smart decisions.
Vaccaro pretty much roasted Rose in the post today for "whiffing" on Murray. To me it's just a weird take that doesn't convey the truth but sports writers are known for bullshit takes like this. You can disagree that maybe the Knicks should have gone all in on Murray, totally fair, but Vaccaro virtually implies that the Knicks were asleep at the wheel.
Everyone I heard is killing the Knicks. All my knicks fan friends immediately texted me ripping the knicks. It's easy to do, history shows that they always make bad decisions, but I agree with this one completely. The Knicks cannot be giving away 3 unprotected picks(you can count teh swap option in there). Thats something a contender does.
this is why i want Randle gone, if next year Brunson is 20 and 8 and the Knicks are around 41 wins and Rj, Iq and Obi all played well and improved, the Knicks will be set up to add a star to this core..
Brunson is a piece, he is not a savior
Yea I think unless you're really setting up to tank for the foreseeable future, you have to add good players. Brunson is a good player, and by all accounts a good teammate.
Hopefully he can help our young core with their progression. Middle ground is what the Knicks did last year. So, if we follow the logic of not trying to get better, they should be trading everyone on the team who may help us win games to get future assets.
Even if you got rid of all the vets, and invested in playing the youth all the time, do you think we'd be a bottom of the league team? I don't. So then you're not tanking then either.
The Brunson pickup is good. You have to improve your team while accumulating future assets which we have done. I think the team has enough draft equity that should a big player come available, we can make a move for them while still having some good players to play around them.
They have 11 first round picks over the next 7 years. At this point you're looking for things to be mad about.
If you want to criticize the Knicks, it's easy. They extended Randle too quickly. They overreacted to the hawks playoffs series and sacrificed defense for offense with Fournier. They were too reliant on 33 year old breaking down Derrick Rose. They did a shit job with their young players last season.
this is why i want Randle gone, if next year Brunson is 20 and 8 and the Knicks are around 41 wins and Rj, Iq and Obi all played well and improved, the Knicks will be set up to add a star to this core..
Brunson is a piece, he is not a savior
He has to be gone to give you cap room in 2023.
Right now with these signings and you cut Taj and give up Arcidiacono it's gets you to 9 million. Sign some filler back up center etc.
Re-up Mitch and extend RJ and have no picks in lottery territory next year only options to improve have to be to move Fournier and Randle for 2023 cap space and hope Mitchell or likewise shakes free.
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are literally suffering from contract PTSD. Same with NYG fans.
Not all big contracts are bad. Live a little.
This is laughable it's not about the money it's the player.
He doesn't move the needle and IMO will be an average PG away from Dallas and that system but he is your savior so have at it.
Will he help the team next year yes but .500 is no man's land.
Why do you think Brunson will be an average PG away from Dallas and that system? What's so special about that system? And if you're thinking he'll take a step back without Luka, Brunson actually played better when Luka was inactive and it wasn't an insignificant sample size, imo.
In 17 reg season games w/o Luka, Brunson averaged almost 21 pts and 8.5 Ast. In 3 playoff games w/o Luka, Brunson averaged 32 pts.
I honestly think the Knicks need a guy like Brunson more than that athletic marvel who scowls and dunks his way to sportcenter every other night. I want the calming floor leader like Brunson so badly here.
I just can't get behind the take that it's an overpay and leaves the Knicks with a limited future simply because the optics look that way. That's weak.
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he is another piece..
this is why i want Randle gone, if next year Brunson is 20 and 8 and the Knicks are around 41 wins and Rj, Iq and Obi all played well and improved, the Knicks will be set up to add a star to this core..
Brunson is a piece, he is not a savior
He has to be gone to give you cap room in 2023.
Right now with these signings and you cut Taj and give up Arcidiacono it's gets you to 9 million. Sign some filler back up center etc.
Re-up Mitch and extend RJ and have no picks in lottery territory next year only options to improve have to be to move Fournier and Randle for 2023 cap space and hope Mitchell or likewise shakes free.
You dont need cap space to get Mitchell, he is signed for 4 more years
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are literally suffering from contract PTSD. Same with NYG fans.
Not all big contracts are bad. Live a little.
No, but some contracts lead you to trade your lottery pick to get rid of them...
Can we stop with this lottery pick label? It was pick 11 in a mediocre at best draft.
When I hear lottery pick I think top 5 in a 5 player draft. Cmon already. 10-30 picks aren't exactly awe-inspiring and you know it.
Oh and we also turned 11 into 3 future picks. Then we used one of those to dump salary. Kind of an important detail some of you like to leave out.
Saying we gave away a lotto pick to move salary is disingenuous.
The Knicks took a calculated risk last year and brought back the vets that helped the team finish as a high seed. They essentially risked a bunch of 2nd round picks. Big fucking deal.
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In comment 15744448 djm said:
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are literally suffering from contract PTSD. Same with NYG fans.
Not all big contracts are bad. Live a little.
This is laughable it's not about the money it's the player.
He doesn't move the needle and IMO will be an average PG away from Dallas and that system but he is your savior so have at it.
Will he help the team next year yes but .500 is no man's land.
Why do you think Brunson will be an average PG away from Dallas and that system? What's so special about that system? And if you're thinking he'll take a step back without Luka, Brunson actually played better when Luka was inactive and it wasn't an insignificant sample size, imo.
In 17 reg season games w/o Luka, Brunson averaged almost 21 pts and 8.5 Ast. In 3 playoff games w/o Luka, Brunson averaged 32 pts.
The system is built around the PG postion and creating space for the PG to be the focal point.
Thibs has not shown the same now they do like the pick and roll which will help Brunson but Thibs offense is archaic at times and very stagnant in the half court.
I do agree if Randle is gone and Grimes moves to the starting 2 they can get up and down the court.
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are literally suffering from contract PTSD. Same with NYG fans.
Not all big contracts are bad. Live a little.
This is laughable it's not about the money it's the player.
He doesn't move the needle and IMO will be an average PG away from Dallas and that system but he is your savior so have at it.
Will he help the team next year yes but .500 is no man's land.
Average PG is not a bad thing and he's not being paid like a savior but keep at it.
@FredKatz
The Knicks have released their summer league roster.
Notable names include Trevor Keels, Jericho Sims, Miles McBride, Quentin Grimes and Feron Hunt.
@TheSteinLine
·
49s
The Mavericks are indeed sending their contingent to New York today for a meeting with Jalen Brunson after 6 PM ET. Team owner Mark Cuban was already in NYC this week on non-NBA business and will be joined by Nico Harrison, Michael Finley and Jason Kidd.
I honestly think the Knicks need a guy like Brunson more than that athletic marvel who scowls and dunks his way to sportcenter every other night. I want the calming floor leader like Brunson so badly here.
I just can't get behind the take that it's an overpay and leaves the Knicks with a limited future simply because the optics look that way. That's weak.
The money is not an issue at all I mean I would rather not pay him the top of his range but I think he is what he is and the thought that he is going to make a leap I can't see it.
He is a dog and will be fun to watch at times but limited physically.
Brunson is a nice piece but not a difference maker.
I don't like the middle of the pack with zero lottery hopes.
Never mind that Rose did a good job gathering up a SHIT LOAD of 2nd round picks on the backs of multiple under the radar transactions since he came here. Never mind that he did the same in regards to first round picks or how he has hit a bunch of singles and doubles in the late 1st and 2nd round these last 2 years. Nope. Fans are focused on what he just did which was move some of those same 2nd rounders he gained here to free up some loot.
The Knicks have like 20 picks over the next 7 years but all I read is how dumb Rose is for trading away some of those 2nd rounders. Cmon already.
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In comment 15744469 nygiants16 said:
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he is another piece..
this is why i want Randle gone, if next year Brunson is 20 and 8 and the Knicks are around 41 wins and Rj, Iq and Obi all played well and improved, the Knicks will be set up to add a star to this core..
Brunson is a piece, he is not a savior
He has to be gone to give you cap room in 2023.
Right now with these signings and you cut Taj and give up Arcidiacono it's gets you to 9 million. Sign some filler back up center etc.
Re-up Mitch and extend RJ and have no picks in lottery territory next year only options to improve have to be to move Fournier and Randle for 2023 cap space and hope Mitchell or likewise shakes free.
You dont need cap space to get Mitchell, he is signed for 4 more years
You need to absorb him and build around unless you move RJ and/or Brunson because they are not taking Randle with 2+ years. It's cleaner with cap space and/or expiring
I agreed it would be fun to see the kids let loose and see what the team can be.
If Randle is gone Thibs has very little choice and honestly I would like D.Rose moved too just to let Quickley get an opportunity and I love D.Rose.
@TheSteinLine
·
49s
The Mavericks are indeed sending their contingent to New York today for a meeting with Jalen Brunson after 6 PM ET. Team owner Mark Cuban was already in NYC this week on non-NBA business and will be joined by Nico Harrison, Michael Finley and Jason Kidd.
What am I missing? Why would the Mavs need to wait until after 6 pm? Don’t they have the right to negotiate with Brunson without waiting until FA begins?
That 5th year and the Texas no state tax is a big selling point.
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even if Mavs match Knicks offer they view he will choose Knicks
That 5th year and the Texas no state tax is a big selling point.
Daddy Brunson has made it clear that the fame that comes with playing in NY is playing a big role.
Being an all star in NY is bigger than being one in Dallas.
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even if Mavs match Knicks offer they view he will choose Knicks
That 5th year and the Texas no state tax is a big selling point.
I dont think he wants a 5th year, 4 year takes him to 29 and then he can cash in on a 5 year deal
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even if Mavs match Knicks offer they view he will choose Knicks
That 5th year and the Texas no state tax is a big selling point.
Not gonna be shocked if Dallas decides to exceed our offer. It's been discussed a million times - they're capped out either way and cannot replace the asset.
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In comment 15744462 larryflower37 said:
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In comment 15744448 djm said:
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are literally suffering from contract PTSD. Same with NYG fans.
Not all big contracts are bad. Live a little.
This is laughable it's not about the money it's the player.
He doesn't move the needle and IMO will be an average PG away from Dallas and that system but he is your savior so have at it.
Will he help the team next year yes but .500 is no man's land.
Why do you think Brunson will be an average PG away from Dallas and that system? What's so special about that system? And if you're thinking he'll take a step back without Luka, Brunson actually played better when Luka was inactive and it wasn't an insignificant sample size, imo.
In 17 reg season games w/o Luka, Brunson averaged almost 21 pts and 8.5 Ast. In 3 playoff games w/o Luka, Brunson averaged 32 pts.
The system is built around the PG postion and creating space for the PG to be the focal point.
Thibs has not shown the same now they do like the pick and roll which will help Brunson but Thibs offense is archaic at times and very stagnant in the half court.
I do agree if Randle is gone and Grimes moves to the starting 2 they can get up and down the court.
Seems to me, Thibs hasn't had a decent PG with the Knicks, other than an obviously limited Derrick Rose. Who knows what the offense could look like with a good young PG (vs. Randle the pt fwd, which I never want to see again).
Not complete without the gif...
I am not upset about the build at all and I am happy he has not made any uncorrectable moves and has drafted well but it's year 3 and the needle has to move past the middle.
Also I am not a Thibs fan and was pretty vocal about the hire originally.
I need to see more to be confident we are moving in the right direction.
@FredKatz
The Knicks have released their summer league roster.
Notable names include Trevor Keels, Jericho Sims, Miles McBride, Quentin Grimes and Feron Hunt.
Feron Hunt is a 'notable name'?
Jahvon Blair, G.S. Lavrio B.C. (Greece)
Garrison Brooks, Mississippi State
Vince Edwards, Iowa Wolves (NBA G League)
Quentin Grimes, Knicks
Feron Hunt, Knicks
DaQuan Jeffries, College Park Skyhawks (NBA G League)
Trevor Keels, Duke
Miles McBride, Knicks
Jean Montero, Overtime Elite
Micah Potter, Sioux Falls Skyforce (NBA G League)
Quentin Rose, Westchester Knicks (NBA G League)
D’Shawn Schwartz, George Mason
Aamir Sims, Westchester Knicks (NBA G League)
M.J. Walker, Westchester Knicks (NBA G League)
NBACentral
@TheNBACentral
“Brooklyn, in need of athleticism in the frontcourt, likes Ayton and could piece together a package headlined by Joe Harris.”
- @SIChrisMannix
@SNYtv
·
1h
Members of the Knicks' organization are "optimistic" that there will be common ground on an extension with RJ Barrett (via @IanBegley
) https://on.sny.tv/qA6gXLR
Jahvon Blair, G.S. Lavrio B.C. (Greece)
Garrison Brooks, Mississippi State
Vince Edwards, Iowa Wolves (NBA G League)
Quentin Grimes, Knicks
Feron Hunt, Knicks
DaQuan Jeffries, College Park Skyhawks (NBA G League)
Trevor Keels, Duke
Miles McBride, Knicks
Jean Montero, Overtime Elite
Micah Potter, Sioux Falls Skyforce (NBA G League)
Quentin Rose, Westchester Knicks (NBA G League)
D’Shawn Schwartz, George Mason
Aamir Sims, Westchester Knicks (NBA G League)
M.J. Walker, Westchester Knicks (NBA G League)
MJ Walker isn't gonna be anything but he was fun to watch last year. He had some nice moments last year. He was just overshadowed by the young kids.
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or feel he's not even a league average PG I could see why you wouldn't want to sign him here but league average (meaning good) PGs that are under 27 are going to get paid. 4 years 110 or so isn't really an overpay at all. And we so desperately need a guy like Brunson as he's a leader on and off the floor.
I honestly think the Knicks need a guy like Brunson more than that athletic marvel who scowls and dunks his way to sportcenter every other night. I want the calming floor leader like Brunson so badly here.
I just can't get behind the take that it's an overpay and leaves the Knicks with a limited future simply because the optics look that way. That's weak.
The money is not an issue at all I mean I would rather not pay him the top of his range but I think he is what he is and the thought that he is going to make a leap I can't see it.
He is a dog and will be fun to watch at times but limited physically.
Brunson is a nice piece but not a difference maker.
I don't like the middle of the pack with zero lottery hopes.
Fair enough. Let's hope they have a plan that doesn't peak with 40 wins.
Because if he gets the ball, it typically sticks. He tries to dribble into double teams, puts up bad shots, turns it over, etc.
What reason do we have to believe Randle would be "open" to such a role? He came to the Knicks in the first place because he wanted touches and to be "the man" and then sulked all of last season (likely in large part due to his "demotion"/shared primary role with RJB. I've seen nothing said/done by Randle to suggest he's a "winning over role" type. I'd love to be proven wrong. Finally, his offensive game is mostly ground and pound, yes he can hit an outside shot but his primary offense is dribble drives and bully ball, not in the context of a team offense.
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Everyone complains about how Randle slowed the offense the way he tried to get off his shot as the 24 second clock would run down. For the most part, they ran a very inefficient offense. Add a PG who can distribute the ball and hit an open shot and that Randle offense gets taken out of the playbook. Assuming Brunson does sign, and is PG he seems to have been with Dallas, why couldn’t Randle’s role change to that of a PF who can hit rebound and hit an open shot? If that were to,happen, assuming Randle would accept that role, then the questions is about what to,do,with Toppin. One of those guys would need to be go.
Because if he gets the ball, it typically sticks. He tries to dribble into double teams, puts up bad shots, turns it over, etc.
This. Once he has the ball, it rarely moves. Even at his "best" this was true.