Didn't see it posted. If I missed it, I'll delete.
| “I honestly feel bad for Daniel,” Tate told Andy Vasquez of NJ Advance Media on Wednesday. “He was drafted into a rebuilding organization for one, had Pat Shurmur for a year and then got Joe Judge for two years, now another head coach and another rebuild going into his fourth season. He hasn’t had Saquon [Barkley], myself, [Kenny] Golladay, Sterling [Shepard]. No one is ever on the field at the same time. And then on top of that, he had [Jason] Garrett [as his offensive coordinator] and that probably didn’t help much. |
Tate on Jones - (
New Window )
Hate the guy all you want, but what he is saying is pretty much all true. I dont think Jones is "the guy", but at the same time im willing to admit that the stars havent exactly been aligned in his favor in his career thus far.
https://www.audacy.com/wfan/sports/giants/giants-bench-golden-tate-after-throw-me-the-ball-stunt
But unfortunately,excuses are for losers.
The good news, Daniel Jones knows that....and must overcome it.
Hopefully, it all comes together quickly, new modern offense, OL gels, WRs heal and the old Barkley is back.....and Jones takes advantage.
Otherwise, we are back square one....
- Every WR in every game
Hate the guy all you want, but what he is saying is pretty much all true. I dont think Jones is "the guy", but at the same time im willing to admit that the stars havent exactly been aligned in his favor in his career thus far.
+1
I think this his been the fatal flaw for the Giants since 2017 — the assumption everything is fine at the QB position — and it’s everyone else.
Why don’t we feel bad for Darius Slayton that he’s had to play with a QB who misses critical games each year due to injury?
Why don’t we feel bad for Joe Judge for inheriting a QB that struggles with some of the fundamentals?
The more true and intellectually honest assessment is many of the principals, from coaching to skills players and yes the QB have underperformed and missed time. And it’s a collective failure.
I think this his been the fatal flaw for the Giants since 2017 — the assumption everything is fine at the QB position — and it’s everyone else.
Why don’t we feel bad for Darius Slayton that he’s had to play with a QB who misses critical games each year due to injury?
Why don’t we feel bad for Joe Judge for inheriting a QB that struggles with some of the fundamentals?
The more true and intellectually honest assessment is many of the principals, from coaching to skills players and yes the QB have underperformed and missed time. And it’s a collective failure.
We do, and plenty have made comments about what you outlined. Can't answer for Tate, however.
Its completely ok to think Jones got dealt a shitty hand and also think he isn't good enough to boot. Too many posters are dug in on either side, that's the real problem. The gray area is completely gone and its why these discussions typically suck and aren't at all informative.
Its completely ok to think Jones got dealt a shitty hand and also think he isn't good enough to boot. Too many posters are dug in on either side, that's the real problem. The gray area is completely gone and its why these discussions typically suck and aren't at all informative.
Did you find that article compelling and the argument Golden Tate makes to be interesting and balanced? Do you find Golden Tate to be a reliable and credible source?
I think this his been the fatal flaw for the Giants since 2017 — the assumption everything is fine at the QB position — and it’s everyone else.
Why don’t we feel bad for Darius Slayton that he’s had to play with a QB who misses critical games each year due to injury?
Why don’t we feel bad for Joe Judge for inheriting a QB that struggles with some of the fundamentals?
The more true and intellectually honest assessment is many of the principals, from coaching to skills players and yes the QB have underperformed and missed time. And it’s a collective failure.
When this kid works out and wins in this league I can't wait for you to swallow some crow.
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“Feeling bad” for Jones implies he’s not a big part of why things have gone wrong.
I think this his been the fatal flaw for the Giants since 2017 — the assumption everything is fine at the QB position — and it’s everyone else.
Why don’t we feel bad for Darius Slayton that he’s had to play with a QB who misses critical games each year due to injury?
Why don’t we feel bad for Joe Judge for inheriting a QB that struggles with some of the fundamentals?
The more true and intellectually honest assessment is many of the principals, from coaching to skills players and yes the QB have underperformed and missed time. And it’s a collective failure.
.
When this kid works out and wins in this league I can't wait for you to swallow some crow.
I bet you have zero idea on what I feel about Jones.
We don't need him to be Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, or Pat Mahomes. Eli was never that. Phil Simms was never that. We just don't want him to be Dave Brown.
I am optimistic - until I read the posts on BBI. I agree with Chris Simms take on DJ.
We don't need him to be Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, or Pat Mahomes. Eli was never that. Phil Simms was never that. We just don't want him to be Dave Brown.
I am optimistic - until I read the posts on BBI. I agree with Chris Simms take on DJ.
This until proven otherwise... I'm pulling for the kid, but if not improved in '22, move on....
They put more stock in Emory Hunt tweets than in a former player that's been in the building for two years.
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We do, and plenty have made comments about what you outlined. Can't answer for Tate, however.
Its completely ok to think Jones got dealt a shitty hand and also think he isn't good enough to boot. Too many posters are dug in on either side, that's the real problem. The gray area is completely gone and its why these discussions typically suck and aren't at all informative.
Did you find that article compelling and the argument Golden Tate makes to be interesting and balanced? Do you find Golden Tate to be a reliable and credible source?
My post was in response to your "why don't we" questions which apply to everyone, not just Tate.
Tate is taking the side of the player, news at 11.
Quote:
“Feeling bad” for Jones implies he’s not a big part of why things have gone wrong.
I think this his been the fatal flaw for the Giants since 2017 — the assumption everything is fine at the QB position — and it’s everyone else.
Why don’t we feel bad for Darius Slayton that he’s had to play with a QB who misses critical games each year due to injury?
Why don’t we feel bad for Joe Judge for inheriting a QB that struggles with some of the fundamentals?
The more true and intellectually honest assessment is many of the principals, from coaching to skills players and yes the QB have underperformed and missed time. And it’s a collective failure.
We do, and plenty have made comments about what you outlined. Can't answer for Tate, however.
Its completely ok to think Jones got dealt a shitty hand and also think he isn't good enough to boot. Too many posters are dug in on either side, that's the real problem. The gray area is completely gone and its why these discussions typically suck and aren't at all informative.
Agreed UConn
Quote:
“Feeling bad” for Jones implies he’s not a big part of why things have gone wrong.
I think this his been the fatal flaw for the Giants since 2017 — the assumption everything is fine at the QB position — and it’s everyone else.
Why don’t we feel bad for Darius Slayton that he’s had to play with a QB who misses critical games each year due to injury?
Why don’t we feel bad for Joe Judge for inheriting a QB that struggles with some of the fundamentals?
The more true and intellectually honest assessment is many of the principals, from coaching to skills players and yes the QB have underperformed and missed time. And it’s a collective failure.
.
When this kid works out and wins in this league I can't wait for you to swallow some crow.
And when he's a backup on Pittsburgh next year, does that mean you'll be eating crow?
Part of the reason his coaches are not there is because of him. He fumbles too much and loses games for us. He doesn't spot the open WR timely and consistently.. There is no poor Daniel Jones.. there is just poor Giant fans who have to suffer through this..
Part of the reason his coaches are not there is because of him. He fumbles too much and loses games for us. He doesn't spot the open WR timely and consistently.. There is no poor Daniel Jones.. there is just poor Giant fans who have to suffer through this..
Yep. Jason Garrett a fantastic OC. Created a really fantastic offense with Joe Judge. I so miss it.
In the linked article he says that Jones has a ton of talent. I haven't seen "a ton" of talent.
I've seen some good traits and some good physical skills, but about as many bad traits and bad physical skills. He's a still a big question mark after 3 years in the league.
Wrong again Joey. I was cautiously optimistic when Jones was drafted because I knew Manning was shot. I posted many times Jones has the requisite talent to be a good NFL QB, and Shurmur was a good fit for him. I posted many times during and after 2019 Jones belonged in the NFL, and continuity was a key.
My view is simply Jones is not a victim in any sense. He’s missed critical games and has not developed in key areas. There’s a personal responsibility there. He’s got to be smarter when running the ball and he needs to put in the offseason work to excel, even the staff sucks.
I also firmly believe the organization does him and his teammates no good with the excuse making. There’s no benefit from it when you’re trying to develop a highly successful, resilient leader. And blaming the other guys will lead to resentment.
If Mara would have been making these excuses to the press when Manning was a young inconsistent player, Tom Coughlin would have walked upstairs and punched him in the nuts.
I believe the Giants need to push their franchise quarterback hard, put lots on his back, expect a lot, and create a zero excuse atmosphere.
So similar to all the comments about Jones being a future backup (which are likely true) I hope you can also be honest about Garrett's shortcomings, and not just his time with the Giants.
As funny as that is, he was a starter, meaning the person who replaced him was even less talented.
The difference between a backup and a starter in the NFL is the ability between the ears. It's decisionmaking, it's processing what's he's seeing on the field in the frame of time given at this level. It's instinctiveness.
If you don't have those in the correct amounts, but you have the arm and the leg, you're still an NFL player, just not a starter.
So similar to all the comments about Jones being a future backup (which are likely true) I hope you can also be honest about Garrett's shortcomings, and not just his time with the Giants.
No Doubt.. but the others on that list haven't even had that much success.. a 32 year old Tate? Barkley outside of 1 season which was before Jones.. I mean he was out run and out averaged by Gallman in 2020 and Booker in 2021.. This idea that if tate and barkley were in Jones would do better is ridiculous.. Did Jones do better with or without Golladay?
Well that's what gravy and spices are for!
But that doesn't mean he is excused for his lack of pocket presence, his lack of awareness to read and process defenses pre and post snap and most of the turnovers.
I hope he has a fantastic 2022 season for the Giants. Having to start over with a rookie QB in 2023 will delay playoff contention another 2 or 3 years. But the odds of Daniel Jones being the Giants QB in 2023 are probably pretty slim.
I think this his been the fatal flaw for the Giants since 2017 — the assumption everything is fine at the QB position — and it’s everyone else.
Why don’t we feel bad for Darius Slayton that he’s had to play with a QB who misses critical games each year due to injury?
Why don’t we feel bad for Joe Judge for inheriting a QB that struggles with some of the fundamentals?
The more true and intellectually honest assessment is many of the principals, from coaching to skills players and yes the QB have underperformed and missed time. And it’s a collective failure.
Good post. Look, Tate has very valid points, but that doesn't' mean that Jones himself hasn't been a big part of the problem. His availability has been little better than the players Tate references.
And I'm not going to defend Garrett, I hated his hiring, and was very vocal about it at the time, but maybe his offense was so restricted because he and Judge didn't trust Jones to take care of the ball?
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he's out of coaching completely and announcing. Maybe that's on him and he's burnt out from coaching, but I doubt it. He didn't deliver in Dallas and he stunk here.
So similar to all the comments about Jones being a future backup (which are likely true) I hope you can also be honest about Garrett's shortcomings, and not just his time with the Giants.
No Doubt.. but the others on that list haven't even had that much success.. a 32 year old Tate? Barkley outside of 1 season which was before Jones.. I mean he was out run and out averaged by Gallman in 2020 and Booker in 2021.. This idea that if tate and barkley were in Jones would do better is ridiculous.. Did Jones do better with or without Golladay?
Sure, but you have to remember this is a former player, not a scout or anyone affiliated with the Giants. Tate is a guy giving his opinion and he's not going to breakdown all of the Giants shortcomings.
But that doesn't mean he is excused for his lack of pocket presence, his lack of awareness to read and process defenses pre and post snap and most of the turnovers.
I hope he has a fantastic 2022 season for the Giants. Having to start over with a rookie QB in 2023 will delay playoff contention another 2 or 3 years. But the odds of Daniel Jones being the Giants QB in 2023 are probably pretty slim.
Starting over with a rookie QB doesn't mean delaying contention by 2 or 3 years anymore.
The Giants will have a better shot getting to and winning playoff games in 2023-28 with a QB on a rookie contract than with Jones on a 2nd contract.
Bingo! Of course it's all true, but it won't change any minds. The fact that it's all true doesn't mean jones is the guy, it just means he hasn't had a chance to show it one way or another. Pro football is the ultimate TEAM experience. An individual performance is affected by everything around that individual, the other players, the coaching staff, the scheme, the injuries, etc, it doesn't mean the guy is the real deal, it just means that's no way to judge him with unmovable certainty.
You just choose not to see it because you are too caught up in just bitching about the group that looks at the DJ situation more in black and white and would rather complain about them.
In reality, there are BBI posters that didn't want Jones before last year and still don't; others that were converted in 2021 and wanted to move on from him this past offseason; many still willing to give him a chance in 2022 but he has to be really good; still others that think with just a decent year he should be at least tagged; and yet still others that think he will be one of the better QBs in the league and we should want to extend him longer term.
There are a fair amount of posters in every one of the above groups. Some are dug in and have stayed as such, and many move within the various groups based on time and circumstance.
You're actually being disingenuous to suggest otherwise if you read this board every day.
The guy who constructed the team since 2018 was historically, unequivocally awful. So there’s lots to unravel. I don’t think it’s impossible Jones comes out the other side and the light goes on. I do think it’s improbable.
One of the only things I know, without any grey, is that Golden Tate is a lying, un-credible, cheating, phony, windbag.
Eli did not win two SB's own his own. It just does not work this way. The second SB run had a defense that gave up 2, 20, 17, 17. The QB's faced were Ryan, Smith, Rodgers, Brady. That was a really good team come playoff time.
The unfortunate part with Jones was that he was given very little support in coaching and talent (like Tate said). Now he becomes expensive and with that comes expectations that most likely won't be met or he is not enough of a difference maker to continue with him imv.
I hope one of the big goals this year is to have a good amount piece of quality pieces around a the next QB if they go that route.
The Giants not fielding a quality OL from 2012- 2018 was one of the great failures in its history. They incorrectly viewed/executed how to best support Eli as he aged.
But that all has to be taken separately from the product that Jones puts on the field game day.
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The gray area is completely gone and its why these discussions typically suck and aren't at all informative
You just choose not to see it because you are too caught up in just bitching about the group that looks at the DJ situation more in black and white and would rather complain about them.
In reality, there are BBI posters that didn't want Jones before last year and still don't; others that were converted in 2021 and wanted to move on from him this past offseason; many still willing to give him a chance in 2022 but he has to be really good; still others that think with just a decent year he should be at least tagged; and yet still others that think he will be one of the better QBs in the league and we should want to extend him longer term.
There are a fair amount of posters in every one of the above groups. Some are dug in and have stayed as such, and many move within the various groups based on time and circumstance.
You're actually being disingenuous to suggest otherwise if you read this board every day.
Very well said. I am in the "I think he can be a good QB" camp going into this year. I totally understand those who are skeptical. I do not understand or agree with those who think he is "terrible/no chance" and that we have seen all we need to see from him. I think that the "terrible/no chance" group is rather small, but at this point it is still larger than the "Jones is a stud" group.