Marc Stein
@TheSteinLine
·
19s
The most recent estimates for New York's formal offer to Jalen Brunson, league sources say, estimate a four-year deal worth roughly $105 million plus incentives. Exact numbers will be known after July 6 when deals get processed through the league office.
2009: Chris Duhon
2010: Ray Felton
2011: Toney Douglas
2012: Ray Felton
2013: P. Prigioni
2014: Shane Larkin
2015: Jose Calderon
2016: D Rose
2017: Ramon Sessions
2018: Trey Burke
2019: Allonzo Trier
2020: Elf Payton
2021: Kemba Walker
RE: Knicks point guards on opening night since 2009
2009: Chris Duhon
2010: Ray Felton
2011: Toney Douglas
2012: Ray Felton
2013: P. Prigioni
2014: Shane Larkin
2015: Jose Calderon
2016: D Rose
2017: Ramon Sessions
2018: Trey Burke
2019: Allonzo Trier
2020: Elf Payton
2021: Kemba Walker
I guess I expect a little more consistent production than we got from D Rose lol. His recent tenure here has been good but injured a lot. His first was a freakin mess
RE: Knicks point guards on opening night since 2009
2009: Chris Duhon
2010: Ray Felton
2011: Toney Douglas
2012: Ray Felton
2013: P. Prigioni
2014: Shane Larkin
2015: Jose Calderon
2016: D Rose
2017: Ramon Sessions
2018: Trey Burke
2019: Allonzo Trier
2020: Elf Payton
2021: Kemba Walker
Felton was good for a moment but that list is an atrocity.
That would open up almost 30 million in space for the Knicks
but for who? There's not much out there.
Ayton? trade Cam
that's who I want but the KD news complicates it obviously. But if they could figure out a way to to land Ayton - and dump Randle somewhere - you have a young core (Brunon, RJ, Ayton, Obi, Quick, Grimes) under team control with a lot of upside.
RE: Jeremy Cohen from KFS was speculating on Beal being the potential
I agree. But I'm more on board now because this guy wanted to come to NYC. And it would have been terrible if yet another "sure thing" spurned the Knicks
Unfortunately I think we're stuck with Randle for now. Knicks would have to sell low. Signing Mitch and Hartenstein suggests no plan to play Obi and Randle together, either. So still some issues here.
Looks like a greater possibility of moving Fournier and/or Cam.
like the Hartenstein signing. Only issue is with signing Hartenstein , Randle cant play the backup 5 so Obi is now stuck playing his 13 minutes a night unless Randle gets traded
It's enough to draw space. That would never happen with Noel. And he's healthy. Always available. I suspect this experiment to make mitch hit 3s is going nowhere.
Hartenstein is a legitimate candidate for the full non-taxpayer midlevel exception after a breakout year with the Clippers, where he showed himself capable of competent defense and surprisingly effective offense, particularly as a roll man and a passer. He’s only 24 and comes off a season with a 22.0 PER and 66.4 percent true shooting.
In a way, this punishes the Clippers, who resurrected Hartenstein’s career on a one-year minimum deal but have no Bird rights with which to retain him. Their best bet is probably to agree to a one-year deal for the taxpayer MLE with a second-year player option, which would allow the Clippers to keep him on a longer deal next summer with early Bird rights.
They’ll have competition, however, in a market where several teams are looking to use their full MLE to address the center position.
We needed another big. With that said, I wonder where this leaves Sims.
Counting on Sims as your number two center would be a big risk, he will now have to try and earn it. But I bet he gets some minutes.
I don't disagree at all. But my concern is that a lack of minutes will really stunt his growth. As I wrote in the other thread, Sims will be 24 at the beginning of fhe season. He isn't young. And if he is only getting a handful of minutes a night then that completely changes his game as bigs are always over aggressive with minimal minutes as they aren't worried about staying out of foul trouble. And between Mitch, Hartenstein, and Sims, they really only play C, right? If Randle gets moved, would any of them be able to back up Obi?
We needed another big. With that said, I wonder where this leaves Sims.
Counting on Sims as your number two center would be a big risk, he will now have to try and earn it. But I bet he gets some minutes.
I don't disagree at all. But my concern is that a lack of minutes will really stunt his growth. As I wrote in the other thread, Sims will be 24 at the beginning of fhe season. He isn't young. And if he is only getting a handful of minutes a night then that completely changes his game as bigs are always over aggressive with minimal minutes as they aren't worried about staying out of foul trouble. And between Mitch, Hartenstein, and Sims, they really only play C, right? If Randle gets moved, would any of them be able to back up Obi?
We needed another big. With that said, I wonder where this leaves Sims.
Counting on Sims as your number two center would be a big risk, he will now have to try and earn it. But I bet he gets some minutes.
I don't disagree at all. But my concern is that a lack of minutes will really stunt his growth. As I wrote in the other thread, Sims will be 24 at the beginning of fhe season. He isn't young. And if he is only getting a handful of minutes a night then that completely changes his game as bigs are always over aggressive with minimal minutes as they aren't worried about staying out of foul trouble. And between Mitch, Hartenstein, and Sims, they really only play C, right? If Randle gets moved, would any of them be able to back up Obi?
I see Hartenstein giving them the flexibility to move Randle. Can't trade Julius if your only big men are Sims and Mitch.
We needed another big. With that said, I wonder where this leaves Sims.
Counting on Sims as your number two center would be a big risk, he will now have to try and earn it. But I bet he gets some minutes.
I don't disagree at all. But my concern is that a lack of minutes will really stunt his growth. As I wrote in the other thread, Sims will be 24 at the beginning of fhe season. He isn't young. And if he is only getting a handful of minutes a night then that completely changes his game as bigs are always over aggressive with minimal minutes as they aren't worried about staying out of foul trouble. And between Mitch, Hartenstein, and Sims, they really only play C, right? If Randle gets moved, would any of them be able to back up Obi?
I see Hartenstein giving them the flexibility to move Randle. Can't trade Julius if your only big men are Sims and Mitch.
That's good to know. So, Hartenstein might be like a Taj type to have some flexibility?
We needed another big. With that said, I wonder where this leaves Sims.
Counting on Sims as your number two center would be a big risk, he will now have to try and earn it. But I bet he gets some minutes.
I don't disagree at all. But my concern is that a lack of minutes will really stunt his growth. As I wrote in the other thread, Sims will be 24 at the beginning of fhe season. He isn't young. And if he is only getting a handful of minutes a night then that completely changes his game as bigs are always over aggressive with minimal minutes as they aren't worried about staying out of foul trouble. And between Mitch, Hartenstein, and Sims, they really only play C, right? If Randle gets moved, would any of them be able to back up Obi?
Hate to say it, but Sims is good Mitch insurance.
I actually think Simms will be better than Mitch and soon
Very randomly, quasi jokingly tweeted about Hartenstein dating back to 2017, and how big his upside was.. and now he’s here lol
"so after all of this...
Italianju : 7/25/2017 7:30 am : link
watch us just end up with the harkless, Leonard, Hartenstein crap we thought we were getting a week or so ago."
As Meat Loaf once said, "two outta three ain't bad" Link - ( New Window )
From the grammar or spelling police but because it can be confusing the Knicks actually have Aamir Simms and Jericho Sims. I assume you mean Sims but just making sure.
Very randomly, quasi jokingly tweeted about Hartenstein dating back to 2017, and how big his upside was.. and now he’s here lol
"so after all of this...
Italianju : 7/25/2017 7:30 am : link
watch us just end up with the harkless, Leonard, Hartenstein crap we thought we were getting a week or so ago."
As Meat Loaf once said, "two outta three ain't bad" Link - ( New Window )
Very randomly, quasi jokingly tweeted about Hartenstein dating back to 2017, and how big his upside was.. and now he’s here lol
"so after all of this...
Italianju : 7/25/2017 7:30 am : link
watch us just end up with the harkless, Leonard, Hartenstein crap we thought we were getting a week or so ago."
As Meat Loaf once said, "two outta three ain't bad" Link - ( New Window )
We were literally hoping for Hartenstein and Qi from the Rockets in a Melo trade. That's how pathetic it was. Haha
Very randomly, quasi jokingly tweeted about Hartenstein dating back to 2017, and how big his upside was.. and now he’s here lol
"so after all of this...
Italianju : 7/25/2017 7:30 am : link
watch us just end up with the harkless, Leonard, Hartenstein crap we thought we were getting a week or so ago."
As Meat Loaf once said, "two outta three ain't bad" Link - ( New Window )
I used to get really into following these random euro or hyped HS guys and Hartenstein was one of them. His highlight videos from Germany were fun and I just liked his overall game. I felt pretty dumb when he went round 2 and floated around the league but it’ll be fun to have him on the knicks
RE: I'd love to see Grimes start and Fournier go to the second unit
Both Grimes and IQ are going to be behind them on the depth chart and are also going to only get 15-20 minutes a night like Toppin. Knicks really need to get rid of 1 of Rose or Fournier to open up minutes for the young players
RE: Aside from Randle, this is also the problem with still having
Both Grimes and IQ are going to be behind them on the depth chart and are also going to only get 15-20 minutes a night like Toppin. Knicks really need to get rid of 1 of Rose or Fournier to open up minutes for the young players
I get your concern but Grimes and Fournier can play the 3 too so it isn't as clogged as say PF with Randle and Obi.
Both Grimes and IQ are going to be behind them on the depth chart and are also going to only get 15-20 minutes a night like Toppin. Knicks really need to get rid of 1 of Rose or Fournier to open up minutes for the young players
I get your concern but Grimes and Fournier can play the 3 too so it isn't as clogged as say PF with Randle and Obi.
There is also Reddish who needs playing time at the 3.
There are just not enough minutes to divy up with Brunson/Fournier/Rose/RJ/Grimes/IQ/Reddish and with Thibs and how he favors the vets there is a good chance REddish would not even make the rotation right now, and IQ and Grimes end up with 15 minutes a night .
I mean if you do the math Brunson and RJ play around 35 a night and Fournier plays around 30. That leaves you with 46 minutes between those 3 positions. Rose will get around 20. So 26 minutes to divide between Quickley and Grimes (approximately ). 1 of Rose or Fournier HAS to go in order for both of them to get the minutes they need
Feels good to know we'll be going to sleep tonight
I'd rather have Grimes start a d IQ with the second team and overlap with Brunson. Who is leading the 2nd unit? Rose? McBride?
Rose was the reason we made the playoffs two years ago. I wouldn't sleep on him in that role.
But he isn't reliable. He's always banged up and as we've seen the last two years, Thibs likes consistency with his units. Even when Rose got hurt, he kept IQ with the 2nd unit and had Burks with the starters. Thibs will want IQ with that 2nd unit. That doesn't mean he will get backup minutes. We've seen Thibs stick with IQ at the end of games. IQ doesn't have to be a PG but I owe him an apology. That last month and a half he was clicking. Thibs likes combo guards like that and Rose and IQ can easily play off of each other. IQ can come in early to get time with Brunson as well and we'll see how the end of games are handled. And, as has been mentioned before, Brunson will need another defender next to him. That first unit with Brunson, RJ, and Randle already have enough ball handlers. Grimes is a perfect match for that unit.
RE: RE: RE: Aside from Randle, this is also the problem with still having
I mean if you do the math Brunson and RJ play around 35 a night and Fournier plays around 30. That leaves you with 46 minutes between those 3 positions. Rose will get around 20. So 26 minutes to divide between Quickley and Grimes (approximately ). 1 of Rose or Fournier HAS to go in order for both of them to get the minutes they need
Fournier could easily be S&T in the Brunson deal.
And we could deal Rose pretty easily. Trade him to BOS for a couple of second rounders.
Both Grimes and IQ are going to be behind them on the depth chart and are also going to only get 15-20 minutes a night like Toppin. Knicks really need to get rid of 1 of Rose or Fournier to open up minutes for the young players
I get your concern but Grimes and Fournier can play the 3 too so it isn't as clogged as say PF with Randle and Obi.
There is also Reddish who needs playing time at the 3.
There are just not enough minutes to divy up with Brunson/Fournier/Rose/RJ/Grimes/IQ/Reddish and with Thibs and how he favors the vets there is a good chance REddish would not even make the rotation right now, and IQ and Grimes end up with 15 minutes a night .
I mean if you do the math Brunson and RJ play around 35 a night and Fournier plays around 30. That leaves you with 46 minutes between those 3 positions. Rose will get around 20. So 26 minutes to divide between Quickley and Grimes (approximately ). 1 of Rose or Fournier HAS to go in order for both of them to get the minutes they need
Reddish seems like trade bait to me and I wouldn't put him above the others mentioned. Yes, we have a ton of bodies and it will be tough to get these young kids a lot of minutes.
But he isn't reliable. He's always banged up and as we've seen the last two years, Thibs likes consistency with his units. Even when Rose got hurt, he kept IQ with the 2nd unit and had Burks with the starters. Thibs will want IQ with that 2nd unit. That doesn't mean he will get backup minutes. We've seen Thibs stick with IQ at the end of games. IQ doesn't have to be a PG but I owe him an apology. That last month and a half he was clicking. Thibs likes combo guards like that and Rose and IQ can easily play off of each other. IQ can come in early to get time with Brunson as well and we'll see how the end of games are handled. And, as has been mentioned before, Brunson will need another defender next to him. That first unit with Brunson, RJ, and Randle already have enough ball handlers. Grimes is a perfect match for that unit.
You're right. I think your view is going to play out. Thibs likes IQ first of the bench. And having Grimes as the complementary piece to RJ and Brunson does make sense too.
I mean if you do the math Brunson and RJ play around 35 a night and Fournier plays around 30. That leaves you with 46 minutes between those 3 positions. Rose will get around 20. So 26 minutes to divide between Quickley and Grimes (approximately ). 1 of Rose or Fournier HAS to go in order for both of them to get the minutes they need
Fournier could easily be S&T in the Brunson deal.
And we could deal Rose pretty easily. Trade him to BOS for a couple of second rounders.
That works for me . Anything to get rid of these Vets. The priority for this front office needs to be figuring out how to get Quickley, Grimes, and Toppin at least 25 minutes a night next season and that will only happen if at least 1 of Rose oor Fournier are traded and Randle
I mean if you do the math Brunson and RJ play around 35 a night and Fournier plays around 30. That leaves you with 46 minutes between those 3 positions. Rose will get around 20. So 26 minutes to divide between Quickley and Grimes (approximately ). 1 of Rose or Fournier HAS to go in order for both of them to get the minutes they need
Fournier could easily be S&T in the Brunson deal.
And we could deal Rose pretty easily. Trade him to BOS for a couple of second rounders.
That works for me . Anything to get rid of these Vets. The priority for this front office needs to be figuring out how to get Quickley, Grimes, and Toppin at least 25 minutes a night next season and that will only happen if at least 1 of Rose oor Fournier are traded and Randle
We'd need to sign somebody though. We'd be clearing space and if we're re-signing Mitch, we might as well go over the cap on that deal.
but a starting lineup of Brunson/Grimes/RJ/OBI/Mitch would be a lot of fun and there is a lot of room for growth there as well.
Then have Quickley with either Rose or Fournier /Reddish/Hartenstein and they would need to add a backup 3 or 4 coming off the bench and that team would be a lot of fun to watch and root for
If he is here, I don't see him coming off the bench. He'll be starting games and that backcourt will be a defrnsive liability. They won't bring him off the bench because that'll hurt his trade value more imo. They'll try to pump him up to potential suitors. I just think he's a bad fit.
right now if there are no sign and trades? We can go over the cap to sign Robinson but that means something else might be coming as we haven't heard anything other than speculation with Mitch so far.
& it'll be a great day if we find a taker for Randle, but I don't see that happening...today @ least.
If they were to trade Randle, who backs up OBI? All of a sudden they would have a big whole at PF.
I agree that they need to find more minutes for Toppin, but I'm not sure of an easy answer without the team suffering for it unless Tibbs will start using them together more often.
So Shams comes out & says we're signing Brunson before FA 'technically' begins @ 6 ET. Anyone else concerned Cuban might throw holy hell & cry tampering to Silver? It'd be on brand for Mark.
RE: Anybody have a speculation at where we are with the cap
right now if there are no sign and trades? We can go over the cap to sign Robinson but that means something else might be coming as we haven't heard anything other than speculation with Mitch so far.
Signing Mitch is your best value play. If he walks, you get nothing and the day looks less bright. You can always trade him down the line.
So Shams comes out & says we're signing Brunson before FA 'technically' begins @ 6 ET. Anyone else concerned Cuban might throw holy hell & cry tampering to Silver? It'd be on brand for Mark.
They won't need to. The NBA ahould be investigating that on their own. It was so blatantly obvious. The good news is that the precedent for this is like a 2nd round pick so worst case scenario is that we lose a 2nd.
RE: RE: Anybody have a speculation at where we are with the cap
right now if there are no sign and trades? We can go over the cap to sign Robinson but that means something else might be coming as we haven't heard anything other than speculation with Mitch so far.
Signing Mitch is your best value play. If he walks, you get nothing and the day looks less bright. You can always trade him down the line.
Okay, but that had nothing to do with what I was talking about. Lol. I'm saying he hasn't signed yet so it seems more moves are on the way otherwise he would have signed already.
I'd worry about that later. I think the sooner Randle is gone, the better...for all parties. And my main fear is that if he does stick around, Thibs-stubborn AF that he is-will continue to play him heavy minutes @ the expense of Obi.
I was banging the drum to trade him earlier than most and we missed our window. He's not a bad guy at all. He was frustrated last year. I hated his attitude but he does care and wants to be here. Rose, Thibs, Randle, and whoever else need to sit down and have a conversation about what is best for the team and him. Obi needs to play. That's non-negotiable. Thibs needs to find ways to play both m9re consistently. Randle needs to realize he has help and doesn't need to do it all himself. Randle really isn't a selfish player. He is like most though. When things get bad you revert to what you know and what he knows is to dominate the ball. He can't be taking last second shots. He sucks at them. Focus on what he does well and how the team benefits from what he does well. He's not stupid. He'll get it. If at that point he still wants out then the easy selling point is for him to help this team win because that is when his value isnthe highest, not because he scores more. Then he can be moved.
As I said earlier, I was calling for him to be traded before most but now is not the right time unless it is too good to pass up. The problem is nobody wants him now. Fine. He's not a bad player. He has more value to us on the team right now. Thibs just has to give Obi minutes and fans won't be pissed off.
I agree that they need to find more minutes for Toppin, but I'm not sure of an easy answer without the team suffering for it unless Tibbs will start using them together more often.
If we re-sign Mitch and having signed Hartenstein - that doesn't sound like a plan involving Randle and Obi playing together.
Not sure if Randle wants to be here; I don't know WTF was going on with him last season-I speculated stuff going on in his personal life-but he looked miserable. And then he was getting into it with the fans, which was stupid AF because no athlete is ever going to win a war vs. the fans. The letter he penned in the 'The Player's Tribune' might have been a decade ago.
& my greatest fear with keeping Randle is that its at Obi's expense because let's face it...Thibs is still the coach & unless he has a come to Jesus moment, he is going to ride 'his guys', if you will, at the expense of the youngins.
I was banging the drum to trade him earlier than most and we missed our window. He's not a bad guy at all. He was frustrated last year. I hated his attitude but he does care and wants to be here. Rose, Thibs, Randle, and whoever else need to sit down and have a conversation about what is best for the team and him. Obi needs to play. That's non-negotiable. Thibs needs to find ways to play both m9re consistently. Randle needs to realize he has help and doesn't need to do it all himself. Randle really isn't a selfish player. He is like most though. When things get bad you revert to what you know and what he knows is to dominate the ball. He can't be taking last second shots. He sucks at them. Focus on what he does well and how the team benefits from what he does well. He's not stupid. He'll get it. If at that point he still wants out then the easy selling point is for him to help this team win because that is when his value isnthe highest, not because he scores more. Then he can be moved.
As I said earlier, I was calling for him to be traded before most but now is not the right time unless it is too good to pass up. The problem is nobody wants him now. Fine. He's not a bad player. He has more value to us on the team right now. Thibs just has to give Obi minutes and fans won't be pissed off.
If Mitch re-signs it is going to be impossible for
Obi to get more then 15 minutes a night because Randle will not be able to play backup Center .
Randle needs to be traded just to open up minutes for Obi aside from all the other issues on and off the court. It doesnt matter what they can get for him at this point. Just get rid of him and move forward with the youth
Free agent guard Jalen Brunson, armed with a five-year, $106M-plus Mavericks offer, is headed into a meeting with the New York Knicks within the hour, sources tell ESPN.
I was banging the drum to trade him earlier than most and we missed our window. He's not a bad guy at all. He was frustrated last year. I hated his attitude but he does care and wants to be here. Rose, Thibs, Randle, and whoever else need to sit down and have a conversation about what is best for the team and him. Obi needs to play. That's non-negotiable. Thibs needs to find ways to play both m9re consistently. Randle needs to realize he has help and doesn't need to do it all himself. Randle really isn't a selfish player. He is like most though. When things get bad you revert to what you know and what he knows is to dominate the ball. He can't be taking last second shots. He sucks at them. Focus on what he does well and how the team benefits from what he does well. He's not stupid. He'll get it. If at that point he still wants out then the easy selling point is for him to help this team win because that is when his value isnthe highest, not because he scores more. Then he can be moved.
As I said earlier, I was calling for him to be traded before most but now is not the right time unless it is too good to pass up. The problem is nobody wants him now. Fine. He's not a bad player. He has more value to us on the team right now. Thibs just has to give Obi minutes and fans won't be pissed off.
If Mitch re-signs it is going to be impossible for
Obi to get more then 15 minutes a night because Randle will not be able to play backup Center .
Randle needs to be traded just to open up minutes for Obi aside from all the other issues on and off the court. It doesnt matter what they can get for him at this point. Just get rid of him and move forward with the youth
Word from somewhere this offseason was Randle was told his role would decrease. If he plays 32 min a night, that is 16 for Obi and that is not counting time that they can play together hence my comment about sitting Thibs down too. Is it ideal? No but just trading him to trade him doesn't help this team as much as getting more back for Randle. And, as others and myself have pointed out, PF would be a problem behind Obi if Randle was traded. I don't think Cam can be effective there but I could be wrong.
Free agent guard Jalen Brunson, armed with a five-year, $106M-plus Mavericks offer, is headed into a meeting with the New York Knicks within the hour, sources tell ESPN.
Free agent guard Jalen Brunson, armed with a five-year, $106M-plus Mavericks offer, is headed into a meeting with the New York Knicks within the hour, sources tell ESPN.
Odd
Probably to provide deniability for tampering charges
of Brunson not being a #1 on a championship team may be true, but that dude's a bad MF'er. You definitely don't get worse having a guy like that on your team.
The issue is with signing Hartenstein and possibly Mitch , Randle will not be able to play with Obi because there will be no Center minutes available now.
That leaves at best even if Randle gets a reduced role , 16 minutes for Obi which is just not good enough for the way he played at the end of last season .
Obi starts and Reddish can play some 4 and/or frankly im not too worried about them finding a backup 4 between now and the start of the season either in FA or in a trade
RE: RE: RE: RE: Still don't see official Brunson signing.
Life long Knicks fan and friend of Donovan Mitchell…. He wants to play in Miami. Not the Knicks
Fat Joe is a source now?
Fat Joe denies it lol. Was put out there by a Nets writer
A Nets writer? What, there is nothing more important going on in Nets land? Everyone wants out, so let’s try to change the focus and make things up about the Knicks. Fucking pathetic
The issue is with signing Hartenstein and possibly Mitch , Randle will not be able to play with Obi because there will be no Center minutes available now.
That leaves at best even if Randle gets a reduced role , 16 minutes for Obi which is just not good enough for the way he played at the end of last season .
Obi starts and Reddish can play some 4 and/or frankly im not too worried about them finding a backup 4 between now and the start of the season either in FA or in a trade
This is probably how it will play out but we don't need to play our centers. Obi and Randle can play the 4/5. It is all dependent upon matchups. There are plenty of opportunities in today's NBA. Most bigs aren't offensive weapons today so Randle can handle some minutes there. Most Centers won't be able to handle Randle and Obi. Centers will have to move out of the paint. It creates mismatches. It is like football. You have to pick and choose your battles. If it comes down to Obi losing minutes or Mitch/Hartenstein then I am trying to sacrifice our centers' min where possible.
The issue is with signing Hartenstein and possibly Mitch , Randle will not be able to play with Obi because there will be no Center minutes available now.
That leaves at best even if Randle gets a reduced role , 16 minutes for Obi which is just not good enough for the way he played at the end of last season .
Obi starts and Reddish can play some 4 and/or frankly im not too worried about them finding a backup 4 between now and the start of the season either in FA or in a trade
This is probably how it will play out but we don't need to play our centers. Obi and Randle can play the 4/5. It is all dependent upon matchups. There are plenty of opportunities in today's NBA. Most bigs aren't offensive weapons today so Randle can handle some minutes there. Most Centers won't be able to handle Randle and Obi. Centers will have to move out of the paint. It creates mismatches. It is like football. You have to pick and choose your battles. If it comes down to Obi losing minutes or Mitch/Hartenstein then I am trying to sacrifice our centers' min where possible.
1st of all the problem is Thibs is still the coach and he wants a traditionital Center at all times.
Second, it just doesn't make sense to invest money into Mitch and Hartenstein only for them to be glued to the bench so Randle could play there to give Obi more minutes. It's a bad use of resources and clunky roster construction
The issue is with signing Hartenstein and possibly Mitch , Randle will not be able to play with Obi because there will be no Center minutes available now.
That leaves at best even if Randle gets a reduced role , 16 minutes for Obi which is just not good enough for the way he played at the end of last season .
Obi starts and Reddish can play some 4 and/or frankly im not too worried about them finding a backup 4 between now and the start of the season either in FA or in a trade
This is probably how it will play out but we don't need to play our centers. Obi and Randle can play the 4/5. It is all dependent upon matchups. There are plenty of opportunities in today's NBA. Most bigs aren't offensive weapons today so Randle can handle some minutes there. Most Centers won't be able to handle Randle and Obi. Centers will have to move out of the paint. It creates mismatches. It is like football. You have to pick and choose your battles. If it comes down to Obi losing minutes or Mitch/Hartenstein then I am trying to sacrifice our centers' min where possible.
1st of all the problem is Thibs is still the coach and he wants a traditionital Center at all times.
Second, it just doesn't make sense to invest money into Mitch and Hartenstein only for them to be glued to the bench so Randle could play there to give Obi more minutes. It's a bad use of resources and clunky roster construction
Again, matchups. This isn't an every game, consistent rotation. It is about having options and not being afraid to take that chance of going with a small lineup.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Still don't see official Brunson signing.
Could be that the Knicks are engaged with the Mavericks regarding a S&T. That might be the hangup.
wont be official until the 6th
Yeah, but they could still agree to a trade in principle
I dont know the rules on that, i am sure it woukd leak if its being talked about
the best we're gonna get is the reporters like Woj and Shams saying it's done. Nothing official will be announced till next week. A lot of times the sign and trade with UFA's is minor and it's announced when deals can be official. The sign and trades that leak today are usually for Rfa's like Ball last year.
Correct me if I’m wrong. We came out of the draft without our pick but with Brunson and two future firsts (heavily protected) we still have major assets in picks going forward and didn’t have to give up anything for our new point guard.
As much hate as gets tossed around on twitter (which I had to stop looking at) you would think we lost our minds. I’d say we’re a better team today and have a decent outlook for the future. That’s a stark difference from the same old Knicks. Maybe I have Stockholm syndrome but I’m okay with slow and steady getting better for a change. Maybe not a championship team but a team that competes hard is great for this fan.
Correct me if I’m wrong. We came out of the draft without our pick but with Brunson and two future firsts (heavily protected) we still have major assets in picks going forward and didn’t have to give up anything for our new point guard.
As much hate as gets tossed around on twitter (which I had to stop looking at) you would think we lost our minds. I’d say we’re a better team today and have a decent outlook for the future. That’s a stark difference from the same old Knicks. Maybe I have Stockholm syndrome but I’m okay with slow and steady getting better for a change. Maybe not a championship team but a team that competes hard is great for this fan.
Does that maybe mean he’s gonna screw the Knicks even knowing his dad will be disappointed in the process and either re up in Dallas or go somewhere else?
Does that maybe mean he’s gonna screw the Knicks even knowing his dad will be disappointed in the process and either re up in Dallas or go somewhere else?
Does that maybe mean he’s gonna screw the Knicks even knowing his dad will be disappointed in the process and either re up in Dallas or go somewhere else?
Sarcasm?
Just speculating that maybe Brunson pulls the rug out from under the Knicks (and his dad)…that would be pretty cold, no?
Does that maybe mean he’s gonna screw the Knicks even knowing his dad will be disappointed in the process and either re up in Dallas or go somewhere else?
Sarcasm?
Just speculating that maybe Brunson pulls the rug out from under the Knicks (and his dad)…that would be pretty cold, no?
Disregard..according to the Post the deal is official..so, no he won’t be pulling the rug out..I was unaware everything was finalized until just now..
Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn
·
29s
Free agent guard Jalen Brunson has agreed to a four-year, $104 million deal with the New York Knicks, his agents Aaron Mintz and Sam Rose of
@CAA_Basketball
tell ESPN. The deal includes a player option on the final season.
Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn
·
29s
Free agent guard Jalen Brunson has agreed to a four-year, $104 million deal with the New York Knicks, his agents Aaron Mintz and Sam Rose of
@CAA_Basketball
tell ESPN. The deal includes a player option on the final season.
Great news and a great signing. He’s going to help the Knicks big time.
And we have more assets moving forward than we did at the beginning of the off-season. The team is clearly better. What’s excruciating is waiting for a big deal to come along. Clearly Rose thinks it will eventually. He hasn’t spent assets on a player like Murray. He must be aiming higher. But it is legit crazy that he keeps kicking the can down the road. He must have some guys in mind that will be available. We just have to wait and see if he’s right.
And we have more assets moving forward than we did at the beginning of the off-season. The team is clearly better. What’s excruciating is waiting for a big deal to come along. Clearly Rose thinks it will eventually. He hasn’t spent assets on a player like Murray. He must be aiming higher. But it is legit crazy that he keeps kicking the can down the road. He must have some guys in mind that will be available. We just have to wait and see if he’s right.
Crazy that he keeps kicking the can down the road? Who has ever been available that he has missed on since he took over? There has been very little movement the past two years.
Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn
·
29s
Free agent guard Jalen Brunson has agreed to a four-year, $104 million deal with the New York Knicks, his agents Aaron Mintz and Sam Rose of
@CAA_Basketball
tell ESPN. The deal includes a player option on the final season.
And we have more assets moving forward than we did at the beginning of the off-season. The team is clearly better. What’s excruciating is waiting for a big deal to come along. Clearly Rose thinks it will eventually. He hasn’t spent assets on a player like Murray. He must be aiming higher. But it is legit crazy that he keeps kicking the can down the road. He must have some guys in mind that will be available. We just have to wait and see if he’s right.
Crazy that he keeps kicking the can down the road? Who has ever been available that he has missed on since he took over? There has been very little movement the past two years.
Crazy is probably the wrong word. More like I can’t believe it. I give Rose this. He’s fucking patient. Two drafts in a row we kick resources forward into future drafts. Still hoarding assets and waiting to pounce. I may have come across as critical but really impressed. Patience and Knicks GM has never been a thing in my time as a fan.
I guess the key thing is that this is not a quick turnaround. He’s gonna really wait until the right guy(s) come available and until then, it’s steady improvement and keep his powder dry, so to speak. Haven’t seen anything like it.
We finally got a FA we targeted. Love Brunson. Love hartenstein. Let Mitch walk and must must must get rid of Randle. That is the start of something good. On our way!
All of the rumored people to target with our “warchest” of picks are signing extensions and not available. This team still lacks true number 1 and possibly number 2 unless Barrett can prove to be that guy which he hasn’t yet.
Just not sure where or what the move is that can actually have us advance past a play in will come from
And we have more assets moving forward than we did at the beginning of the off-season. The team is clearly better. What’s excruciating is waiting for a big deal to come along. Clearly Rose thinks it will eventually. He hasn’t spent assets on a player like Murray. He must be aiming higher. But it is legit crazy that he keeps kicking the can down the road. He must have some guys in mind that will be available. We just have to wait and see if he’s right.
Crazy that he keeps kicking the can down the road? Who has ever been available that he has missed on since he took over? There has been very little movement the past two years.
Crazy is probably the wrong word. More like I can’t believe it. I give Rose this. He’s fucking patient. Two drafts in a row we kick resources forward into future drafts. Still hoarding assets and waiting to pounce. I may have come across as critical but really impressed. Patience and Knicks GM has never been a thing in my time as a fan.
I guess the key thing is that this is not a quick turnaround. He’s gonna really wait until the right guy(s) come available and until then, it’s steady improvement and keep his powder dry, so to speak. Haven’t seen anything like it.
Knicks GMs have been patient and played the long game before only to be left at the altar TWICE by the game’s best players at that time.
Unless the Knicks draft the next NBA megastar in the next few years, their fate will likely be decided by whoever is the NBA’s next big game changing free agent. So far they are a resounding 0-2 in that department.
Knicks GMs have been patient and played the long game before only to be left at the altar TWICE by the game’s best players at that time.
Knicks GMs have NEVER before been patient and played the long game. They quick purged and hoped big stars would flock to them. And then threw money at third rate players when it didn’t happen.
All of the rumored people to target with our “warchest” of picks are signing extensions and not available. This team still lacks true number 1 and possibly number 2 unless Barrett can prove to be that guy which he hasn’t yet.
Just not sure where or what the move is that can actually have us advance past a play in will come from
Short answer is, it doesn't stop here.
They have questions to answer about the young players on this roster, and they have to figure out how to get them minutes and regular playing time.
There's no play to be made for a star who wants out. Yet. Probably need to stay the course, see what they have. A good season from everyone boosts all trade value and that can remove the minutes logjams and increase the assets.
Awesome. Lack of a true point guard has only been half the Knicks problem. They’ve also generally had few players at other positions who were good passers.
The really good teams have multiple unselfish players that get easy buckets for their teammates.
All of the rumored people to target with our “warchest” of picks are signing extensions and not available. This team still lacks true number 1 and possibly number 2 unless Barrett can prove to be that guy which he hasn’t yet.
Just not sure where or what the move is that can actually have us advance past a play in will come from
All these players have to sign the extension it's the only way to max out your deal, then you ask for a trade.
The goal was to make players stay with their teams but players sign the max and ask for a trade.
Knicks need to be ready for a Mitchell or someone else to ask out or draft a superstar.
Hartenstein brings size as well as a lot of skills that are coveted in a modern big man. He’s one of the best rim protectors in the league, averaging 3.1 blocks per 100 possessions (9th in the NBA). Hartenstein led the entire NBA in Rim dFG% vs Expected. Players shot 15.01% less than expected against him. Opponents shot just 47.5% against him at the rim, the lowest percentage in the league. The 24-year-old journeymen center averaged 8.3 points, 4.9 rebounds, in just shy of 18 minutes per game.
While his numbers won’t jump out to most in an eye-popping fashion, those who watched Hartenstein play last season know that he does have plenty of juice, high motor, and is the definition of impact. In fact he averaged 1.34 defensive miles per 75 minutes (2nd in the NBA) behind only Jacob Poetl. He’s non-stop energy player who is always on the prowl to get his teammate buckets. Hartenstein has an elite 18.5% assist rate that ranks (92nd percentile among all bigs) in 2022. Hartenstein ranks sixth amongst all centers with an 11.2% adjusted assist-to-pass ratio in 2021-22. His 4.7 assists per 36 minutes was league-leading amongst big men. He excels on finding cutters on backdoor passes constantly. Link - ( New Window )
Correct me if I’m wrong. We came out of the draft without our pick but with Brunson and two future firsts (heavily protected) we still have major assets in picks going forward and didn’t have to give up anything for our new point guard.
As much hate as gets tossed around on twitter (which I had to stop looking at) you would think we lost our minds. I’d say we’re a better team today and have a decent outlook for the future. That’s a stark difference from the same old Knicks. Maybe I have Stockholm syndrome but I’m okay with slow and steady getting better for a change. Maybe not a championship team but a team that competes hard is great for this fan.
What you're not understanding is that despite the Knicks being better - the chances are the ceiling will be so limited that it just wasn't worth it.
Bottomline line is that some of us see this team going nowhere in which we're the ones who actually want slow while you want to spend. You ay you want o see slow and steady but signing Brunson and last year giving a pretty big contract to Randle is not evidence of slow and steady.
Instead it's nothing more that "treading water" without any sort of plan to contend.
Awesome. Lack of a true point guard has only been half the Knicks problem. They’ve also generally had few players at other positions who were good passers.
The really good teams have multiple unselfish players that get easy buckets for their teammates.
Correct me if I’m wrong. We came out of the draft without our pick but with Brunson and two future firsts (heavily protected) we still have major assets in picks going forward and didn’t have to give up anything for our new point guard.
As much hate as gets tossed around on twitter (which I had to stop looking at) you would think we lost our minds. I’d say we’re a better team today and have a decent outlook for the future. That’s a stark difference from the same old Knicks. Maybe I have Stockholm syndrome but I’m okay with slow and steady getting better for a change. Maybe not a championship team but a team that competes hard is great for this fan.
What you're not understanding is that despite the Knicks being better - the chances are the ceiling will be so limited that it just wasn't worth it.
Bottomline line is that some of us see this team going nowhere in which we're the ones who actually want slow while you want to spend. You ay you want o see slow and steady but signing Brunson and last year giving a pretty big contract to Randle is not evidence of slow and steady.
Instead it's nothing more that "treading water" without any sort of plan to contend.
I do understand what your saying but just don’t agree. You have to change the perception around the league that your headed in the right direction and not a laughing stock. The salary cap is going up and we have good young players and picks. Everybody wants a magic wand but you have to show your headed in the right direction before a star is going to come to the Knicks.
Correct me if I’m wrong. We came out of the draft without our pick but with Brunson and two future firsts (heavily protected) we still have major assets in picks going forward and didn’t have to give up anything for our new point guard.
As much hate as gets tossed around on twitter (which I had to stop looking at) you would think we lost our minds. I’d say we’re a better team today and have a decent outlook for the future. That’s a stark difference from the same old Knicks. Maybe I have Stockholm syndrome but I’m okay with slow and steady getting better for a change. Maybe not a championship team but a team that competes hard is great for this fan.
What you're not understanding is that despite the Knicks being better - the chances are the ceiling will be so limited that it just wasn't worth it.
Bottomline line is that some of us see this team going nowhere in which we're the ones who actually want slow while you want to spend. You ay you want o see slow and steady but signing Brunson and last year giving a pretty big contract to Randle is not evidence of slow and steady.
Instead it's nothing more that "treading water" without any sort of plan to contend.
I do understand what your saying but just don’t agree. You have to change the perception around the league that your headed in the right direction and not a laughing stock. The salary cap is going up and we have good young players and picks. Everybody wants a magic wand but you have to show your headed in the right direction before a star is going to come to the Knicks.
Yes you are right. And by doing that you don't go after 2nd tier players unless you know you are attracting the super player, or you have the superstar and a 2nd tier player will be a huge help. You build through the draft. You don't go and spend on 2nd tier players like the Knicks do.
The idea is to attract the next Kevin Durant by having many young players available that you can move along with letting him decide who he wants to play with instead of forcing him to play with a 2nd tier player not of his choosing .
I hear many say "Brunson is going to average 21/7" and /or "He is going to attract other players." --- But he isn't attracting the superstar. That is just Knicks fans being homers. You have either have the other superstar or have so much cap space that the superstar can dictate who he wants to play with. Brunson averaging 21/7 means nothing unless he wins. ANd if you think this roster is any more than a playin type of dream I have a very large bridge to sell you.
True. And there are superstars on teams that are not really good.
And yet the teams that have won recently and most that have been to finals have superstars. It is rare without that for getting to finals or winning it.
SO why not follow that path? The ball movement seems to follow the superstar. It's why they are superstars.
The Knicks upgraded point guard and center last night. They're a
Brunson is an ascending player. You can't just group any "overpaid" player and say typical Knicks. Unlike those teams we have a glut of picks which is the opposite of those "overpaid players" teams. I don't even think this is much of an overpay.
We have many trade pieces and can make a move for a star.
Every thread turns into a Knicks fan trauma thread.
For the millionth time, who the fuck did Rose and company miss out on? This hypothetical bullshit is exhausting. We need a star. We need a bit move. Rose is too patient. Blah blah blah. This is like arguing over draft picks. We traded a lottery pick. It's the end of the world.
Put names to these situations. Who were we supposed to bring in? The big names haven't really changed teams in two years. What moves were left on the table where Rose was too patient? What rookie did we pass on that was such a sin?
These multiple threads over the last few days have just been filled with the same same shit from the past 20+ years. Nothing is happening over night. No one move is changing this franchise. There are steps and a plan, even if people don't see it. Others do and you cant just go from sea level to the top of Mount Kilimanjaro in one day. Give it a rest.
I think some like to bitch for the sake of bitching. The Knicks are a better team at 6:15 AM this morning then they were at 6:15 AM yesterday.
We have some of the best,loyal,intelligent well read folks on here...
Its sad that the good stuff gets derailed by absolute garbage
Id like to start a new forum which kicks folks out who do that
I've been accused of being a troll for simply disagreeing with folks...I have seen too many threads just ruined by frankly the lowest denominator....
Thoughts?
Hartenstein brings size as well as a lot of skills that are coveted in a modern big man. He’s one of the best rim protectors in the league, averaging 3.1 blocks per 100 possessions (9th in the NBA). Hartenstein led the entire NBA in Rim dFG% vs Expected. Players shot 15.01% less than expected against him. Opponents shot just 47.5% against him at the rim, the lowest percentage in the league. The 24-year-old journeymen center averaged 8.3 points, 4.9 rebounds, in just shy of 18 minutes per game.
While his numbers won’t jump out to most in an eye-popping fashion, those who watched Hartenstein play last season know that he does have plenty of juice, high motor, and is the definition of impact. In fact he averaged 1.34 defensive miles per 75 minutes (2nd in the NBA) behind only Jacob Poetl. He’s non-stop energy player who is always on the prowl to get his teammate buckets. Hartenstein has an elite 18.5% assist rate that ranks (92nd percentile among all bigs) in 2022. Hartenstein ranks sixth amongst all centers with an 11.2% adjusted assist-to-pass ratio in 2021-22. His 4.7 assists per 36 minutes was league-leading amongst big men. He excels on finding cutters on backdoor passes constantly. Link - ( New Window )
I think some like to bitch for the sake of bitching. The Knicks are a better team at 6:15 AM this morning then they were at 6:15 AM yesterday.
We have some of the best,loyal,intelligent well read folks on here...
Its sad that the good stuff gets derailed by absolute garbage
Id like to start a new forum which kicks folks out who do that
I've been accused of being a troll for simply disagreeing with folks...I have seen too many threads just ruined by frankly the lowest denominator....
Thoughts?
I’ve always felt BBI NYK threads are some of the best threads I’ve seen anywhere - idiots can always be ignored
Apologies if posted already and I missed it but here’s a video of
having 8 firsts in the next few years, young players under 24 and the cap rising go 133 next year according to marks and will keep rising, shows that thr Knicks keep improving on what they have..
Every player on this team hasnt peaked, some you dont know even know what their ceiling is..
I dont know how anyone can say well Knicks hit their ceiling..
earlier. I'm not. I'm happy. This team, with a true lead guard, will be a lot more fun to watch, even if we don't make more moves. Our new backup center is also really fun to watch. We have never had a center who plays like this. There was a lot of BBI excitement for Bamba, but this guy is better, IMO. This is just a really smart mid level basketball move.
The only thing that puts a fun season in jeopardy is 40 mins a night of a sulking Randle. If they don't move him, I really hope they figured out what was up his ass last year.
After sleeping on it, I feel confident that Rose will deliver us a big fish or two some day. I just have no idea who or when. I'm still amazed at his ability to wait when most GMs I know with the pressure he's under would look at all the assets and decide to do *SOMETHING*. If this really was the same ol knicks the GM would have traded them for a broken down all star. This is different.
Yes. Fornier because he can't play defense. Randle because it seems his only play is to back into his defender, turn around and jump shoot, or pass the ball after the clock has run down. Seems Randle's lone positive is rebounding.
are mostly trade related we most likely have to wait until the rest of the free agency dust settles. Once teams see who they did or did not get then they might start looking at trades.
Also who cares what other NBA players are saying about Brunson, which has been pretty impressive, people on BBI tell me he is average, and the media said we reached.
are mostly trade related we most likely have to wait until the rest of the free agency dust settles. Once teams see who they did or did not get then they might start looking at trades.
Also who cares what other NBA players are saying about Brunson, which has been pretty impressive, people on BBI tell me he is average, and the media said we reached.
Yeah, and KD asking out has really made everyone looking to the trade market wait and see WTF happens before they do anything.
replacing Burks and Noel. That's a +. Burks is a good player but not a PG, which is what we need. Noel is a D-only hands-of-stone guy, Hartenstein will be an improvement. Need to get Randle sorted - either a trade or an attitude transplant.
are mostly trade related we most likely have to wait until the rest of the free agency dust settles. Once teams see who they did or did not get then they might start looking at trades.
Also who cares what other NBA players are saying about Brunson, which has been pretty impressive, people on BBI tell me he is average, and the media said we reached.
Trade market is probably on hold right now until KD is traded
Yes. Fornier because he can't play defense. Randle because it seems his only play is to back into his defender, turn around and jump shoot, or pass the ball after the clock has run down. Seems Randle's lone positive is rebounding.
Not saying I would want to keep Randle. But, to,some extent, Randle’s backing into the defender and watching the clock run down will be affected to a great deal by the ball in Brunson’s hands. And, possibly by having a center who can hit a jump shot. Randle was pretty much the only option by default. Not anymore if he’s still,here.
We posted the same a couple of minutes apart, but you missed Grimes who will be a rotation player. Reminds me of Danny Green coming out of UNC. Tenacious defender and pure shooter.
Jalen Brunson agrees to deal with New York Knicks | $110 million, four years
The New York Knicks wanted Brunson. They borderline stalked him during his playoff run with the Dallas Mavericks. And he’s the type of tough-nosed, scoring point guard the Knicks have been hoping to get. It didn’t work out with Kemba Walker last season. And there is something important for this front office about signing the guy they targeted at the top of free agency. Yes, this is a lot of money. No, Brunson doesn’t solve the rest of the Knicks’ problems. This deal won’t make a huge difference for the Knicks if they either 1) can’t get Julius Randle to play as he did two years ago or 2) move Randle off the books and bring in some depth/flexibility for him. I still think this is a good, solid signing.
Brunson has a lot of expectations moving forward. He’s a good shooter and playmaker; he’s not a great shooter and playmaker. He’s a very good scoring guard. Brunson can compete well enough defensively, especially in a system, but he has real physical limitations on that end. Still, the Knicks addressed a need in free agency with their top target. Now how do they maximize the rest of this roster to make this a great signing?
Isaiah Hartenstein agrees to deal with New York Knicks | $16 million over two years
Much of the scuttlebutt leading up to the opening of free agency had Hartenstein taking the midlevel exception with the Orlando Magic. Then out of nowhere, he ends up taking this two-year deal with the New York Knicks. Hartenstein had a brilliant campaign for the LA Clippers last season, and it earned him this money. He’s potentially a good backup, assuming Mitchell Robinson returns to the Knicks. They needed to replace Nerlens Noel, and they did it.
We posted the same a couple of minutes apart, but you missed Grimes who will be a rotation player. Reminds me of Danny Green coming out of UNC. Tenacious defender and pure shooter.
I realized that after I submitted, but no edit button.
I like the idea of having depth, but with this lineup, I see about 3 of these guys getting very very limited playing time. I feel like the Front office can help Thibs out with a consolidation move or two. Most of us have said that's what they were doing this offseason, but as it stands they just replaced Noel and Burkes with Brunson and Hartenstein.
But don’t be shocked if he plays more 2. I think he’s a better scoring guard than lead guard. And with IQ and Rose off the bench - it wouldn’t shock me to see him play off the ball more.
It seems like either Rose or Fournier need to be moved
Or have their roles significantly reduced. Brunson is going to most likely take a little less than 35 of the backcourt minutes, that only leaves 61 to split between Quickley, Fournier, Rose and Grimes.
I know Grimes will also get minutes at the 3, but there aren’t a ton there with RJ playing close to 35, and that leaves nothing for Reddish. I don’t see where Reddish fits, he probably needs to go too absent other moves.
Brunson is a unrestricted fa and can what he wants but it’s surprising that they aren’t more aggressive in their offer. He will be missed big time and they don’t really have any ways to replace him.
I really hope they find a way to move Randle. It’s time to let Obi play.
Draft capital, and some large salary fillers to get in on the Durant trade (not for him) but to facilitate it and round out our roster. Rose let’s see if he has a creative side. (We can hope).
I’m not sure that Grimes and RJB are athletic enough on D. (Others)? And IQ I don’t see ever being a starting 2 guard. They always post him down low. I still would like Grimes on second unit with a stud 2 guard. Yes I’m dreaming.
Brunson is a unrestricted fa and can what he wants but it’s surprising that they aren’t more aggressive in their offer. He will be missed big time and they don’t really have any ways to replace him.
I really hope they find a way to move Randle. It’s time to let Obi play.
They're paying Dinwiddie 20m per for PG. I'm not sure how they could have fit Brunson in their cap space. They're kind of screwed.
Brunson is a unrestricted fa and can what he wants but it’s surprising that they aren’t more aggressive in their offer. He will be missed big time and they don’t really have any ways to replace him.
I really hope they find a way to move Randle. It’s time to let Obi play.
Cuban will co tinue to whine that the Knicms tampered and leak stuff that they never had a chance, but will continue to ignore that he could of had Brunson on a 4 year 55 million contract
there remains a small probability that he bounces back from last year in a big way. Before his monster all-star season, he was really bad in NY, the fans hated him and wanted him gone and the Knicks brass had taken Toppin and were shopping Randle. He responded to that by quietly getting in really good shape, working his ass off in the summer and buying in to being a team player. We haven't heard a peep from him this offseason and a small part of me wonders if we could get a much better version of Randle (wouldn't expect 2020-21 ever again though).
I wouldn't bet on any of this as he's clearly a volatile head case but it's a possible outcome
Hayward (2 years, $30mm) + PJ Washington (1 year, $5mm)
Why for NYK:
-frees up Obi
-fully gives "keys to the car" to Brunson, RJB without the disruptive Randle ruining things as he did last year
Concern: while Reddish for Hayward is 1 for 1 swap of wings, he is the caliber of player that demands playing time and this invites difficult minutes allocation
Why for Charlotte:
-Randle gives them a front court scorer, something they don't have with Bridges career now in jeopardy
Brunson is a unrestricted fa and can what he wants but it’s surprising that they aren’t more aggressive in their offer. He will be missed big time and they don’t really have any ways to replace him.
I really hope they find a way to move Randle. It’s time to let Obi play.
They're paying Dinwiddie 20m per for PG. I'm not sure how they could have fit Brunson in their cap space. They're kind of screwed.
they have (or had) bird rights on Brunson so they could have exceeded the cap to sign him. It's a matter of how much Cuban is willing to pay the luxury tax.
for Brunson. So DAL may have known that even if they offered the max they could that he was going to NY. Yes they could have offered a lot more money, but most of that was in the 5th year. Brunson will think after 4 years im only 25 i can still get another deal. Sure a lot can happen, but its not like he signed with us for chump change.
Im also sure he carried some resentment for how uninterested DAL was in locking him up last year.
They have added nothing and are getting rid of all of Mitchells friends on the team
If Rose is gonna "go for it", get Mitchell onboard. That's the move that, if it ever happens, we would look back during a parade (hopefully) and say to ourselves "THAT was the move that turned this franchise around".
Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn
Free agent center Mitchell Robinson has agreed on a new four-year, $60 million contract to stay with the New York Knicks, his agents Thad Foucher and Joe Smith of @Wassbasketball tell ESPN.
for Brunson. So DAL may have known that even if they offered the max they could that he was going to NY. Yes they could have offered a lot more money, but most of that was in the 5th year. Brunson will think after 4 years im only 25 i can still get another deal. Sure a lot can happen, but its not like he signed with us for chump change.
Im also sure he carried some resentment for how uninterested DAL was in locking him up last year.
The player option he got is pretty valuable when you consider that it happens to fall right when everyone expects the cap to jump significantly. There's real value in him having the chance to get another contract with the increased cap before the age of 30
of the Mitch deal. If its a full 4/60 i really dont like it.
I bet there's incentives in there and maybe a team option for year 4. Every deal this FO has signed has looked worse when it was initially reported than it turned out to be once we got all the details.
of the Mitch deal. If its a full 4/60 i really dont like it.
I bet there's incentives in there and maybe a team option for year 4. Every deal this FO has signed has looked worse when it was initially reported than it turned out to be once we got all the details.
Agreed, def willing to wait to see the full details.
Glad to have Mitch back. Details will be important about for I feel
of the Mitch deal. If its a full 4/60 i really dont like it.
I agree. He's a flawed, injury-prone player who hasn't grown his game at all over the years. He's virtually identical to the player he came into the league as.
For the millionth time, who the fuck did Rose and company miss out on? This hypothetical bullshit is exhausting. We need a star. We need a bit move. Rose is too patient. Blah blah blah. This is like arguing over draft picks. We traded a lottery pick. It's the end of the world.
Put names to these situations. Who were we supposed to bring in? The big names haven't really changed teams in two years. What moves were left on the table where Rose was too patient? What rookie did we pass on that was such a sin?
These multiple threads over the last few days have just been filled with the same same shit from the past 20+ years. Nothing is happening over night. No one move is changing this franchise. There are steps and a plan, even if people don't see it. Others do and you cant just go from sea level to the top of Mount Kilimanjaro in one day. Give it a rest.
I want to print this up and hang it on my fucking refrigerator with a knicks heart magnet. Put this shit in the Knicks 2022-23 yearbook. Put it in the Knicks constitution.
at this point. I hope it's closer to 4/48 but if it's 15 per, that's fine. I don't think we're going to have cap space for a while after this season anyways.
I have to say I'm glad. I love Mitch. It'll be fun to see if he can elevate his game with a real PG. Hopefully he's practicing the pick and roll right now. Or even just the pick XD.
at this point. I hope it's closer to 4/48 but if it's 15 per, that's fine. I don't think we're going to have cap space for a while after this season anyways.
I have to say I'm glad. I love Mitch. It'll be fun to see if he can elevate his game with a real PG. Hopefully he's practicing the pick and roll right now. Or even just the pick XD.
At this point the roster's pretty packed set unless they make trades, which they really should.
The numbers were announced by his agency which tells me
lose him for nothing. It’s a middle of the road salary for a center, and the contract wouldn’t be outlandish enough to not be tradeable. I think even at that number he’s at least a neutral asset, and it will be exciting to see what he looks like with a real PG.
The Knicks roster than Leon inherited:
Payton, Smith Jr., Ntilikina
RJ, Dotson, Ellington, Trier
Morris (soon traded for Harkless/picks), Bullock, Knox
Randle, Portis, Taj
Mitch, Wooten
Talent has improved, but at a high price. All in on the trade market at this point.
RE: The obvious trade is Fournier, but that might cost a pick to deal off.
which at this point we arent, then there is no reason to include assets to move fournier. I know Thibs will pay him, but id rather just have him on the bench then use assets to move him.
I think Fournier's value now is as a facilitator piece in one of
the larger deals that might go down. Or there might be a way to send him to Dallas by revising that deal to be a sign and trade. He might be a good fit there.
He's not that bad a player, honestly. You just can't play him and Randle and a bad defensive PG at the same time. I'd like to move him mostly because I'd rather start Grimes and I think Thibs would too.
Randle, on the other hand, has to go so we can unlock Obi and play real team basketball on both sides of the ball.
Come on he hit 49 % ft last year and has been hurt every year he has been here. Plus does zero to stretch the floor.
He is ours and we are over the cap but it's a shitty overpay.
Mo Bamba got 2 years 21 million.
This is similar to the deals last year it's okay not to max out everyone.
I think some like to bitch for the sake of bitching. The Knicks are a better team at 6:15 AM this morning then they were at 6:15 AM yesterday.
We have some of the best,loyal,intelligent well read folks on here...
Its sad that the good stuff gets derailed by absolute garbage
Id like to start a new forum which kicks folks out who do that
I've been accused of being a troll for simply disagreeing with folks...I have seen too many threads just ruined by frankly the lowest denominator....
Thoughts?
I’ve always felt BBI NYK threads are some of the best threads I’ve seen anywhere - idiots can always be ignored
This is 100% true. I browse many Knicks boards and this place houses the best and most informative Knicks talk by far. Sometimes it’s too painfully truthful here but more often than not, this is where it’s at. There’s a lot more oddly weird, blind homer Knicks talk out there.
If most here like a particular move it’s likely a good move. Same goes for the bad moves.
RE: I think Fournier's value now is as a facilitator piece in one of
the larger deals that might go down. Or there might be a way to send him to Dallas by revising that deal to be a sign and trade. He might be a good fit there.
He's not that bad a player, honestly. You just can't play him and Randle and a bad defensive PG at the same time. I'd like to move him mostly because I'd rather start Grimes and I think Thibs would too.
Randle, on the other hand, has to go so we can unlock Obi and play real team basketball on both sides of the ball.
I’ve seen it reporter Fournier can’t be included in a S&T
A 20/10 guy with a good PG and be valuable at the deadline. Fournier can’t create his own shot and I would be fine trading him for anything that has less guaranteed years.
Randle is much more of a trade priority than Fournier.
the larger deals that might go down. Or there might be a way to send him to Dallas by revising that deal to be a sign and trade. He might be a good fit there.
He's not that bad a player, honestly. You just can't play him and Randle and a bad defensive PG at the same time. I'd like to move him mostly because I'd rather start Grimes and I think Thibs would too.
Randle, on the other hand, has to go so we can unlock Obi and play real team basketball on both sides of the ball.
I’ve seen it reporter Fournier can’t be included in a S&T
Macri also mentioned in his newsletter that they dont have enough to do a descending contract, i think another move is coming, maybe reddish going somewhere..
people are complaining we finally signed a point guard?
LOL.
Haven't had a decent young PG in freaking years. Finally might have one and signed him to a contract of an avg PG.
I get the negativity about the Knicks. It's well earned, but I don't understand bitching about this.
I was a little kid when the Knicks traded for DeBusschere (too young to know at the time, but read about it later). Was he a superstar? No, but he filled an important role, helped the Knicks get better and eventually win a couple titles. I know times are different, but superstars don't grow on trees and it's still a team game. You need good players, not just a superstar.
Hopefully the superstar will come in the next yr or 2, one way or another (who knows, could already be on roster. Not out of question one of the young guys like Obi really blossoms, especially now that we have a legit PG).
Come on he hit 49 % ft last year and has been hurt every year he has been here. Plus does zero to stretch the floor.
He is ours and we are over the cap but it's a shitty overpay.
Mo Bamba got 2 years 21 million.
This is similar to the deals last year it's okay not to max out everyone.
Mitch is a much better player in basically every way except shooting. Mitch blows him out in pretty much every advanced stat, PER, Win shares, ws/48, BPM, VORP. Any stat you want to look at shows Mitch deserves to be paid a lot more than Bamba.
Its not so much that I don't like him as a player, but he's very limited and gets hurt a lot. He can't be relied on and offensively, if its not a dunk, he brings nothing to the table. He's very long on defense and makes a difference, but he's also a bit undisciplined(I know he's gotten better), but he's not a high IQ player at all.
Even if I disagree with someone, it's usually a good convo.
I like the direction of the team is headed currently. Lots of depth, so even if they do a big deal, you're still going to be able to field a team after.
No need to try to get off of Fournier's contract. It's not like he's a net negative player. They brought him in here for his shooting and he did that well last season.
Save the draft capital for a bigger move. Was watching KFTV last night and CP sort of insinuated that it was interesting that LaVine hadn't signed yet. I don't know if he has inside info, but the night before he mentioned Hartenstein so it's something to keep your eye on.
unless the right superstar comes along, they shouldn't do anything. They don't need to dump Randle or Fournier to clear their salaries. They are better off being a good team and letting them build some value. We finally have a PG(hopefully) and a good PG should make it easier for everyone else. Hopefully they let Brunson control the offense and hopefully he's capable of doing that night in and night out.
Come on he hit 49 % ft last year and has been hurt every year he has been here. Plus does zero to stretch the floor.
He is ours and we are over the cap but it's a shitty overpay.
Mo Bamba got 2 years 21 million.
This is similar to the deals last year it's okay not to max out everyone.
Mitch is a much better player in basically every way except shooting. Mitch blows him out in pretty much every advanced stat, PER, Win shares, ws/48, BPM, VORP. Any stat you want to look at shows Mitch deserves to be paid a lot more than Bamba.
Come on he hit 49 % ft last year and has been hurt every year he has been here. Plus does zero to stretch the floor.
He is ours and we are over the cap but it's a shitty overpay.
Mo Bamba got 2 years 21 million.
This is similar to the deals last year it's okay not to max out everyone.
Mitch is a much better player in basically every way except shooting. Mitch blows him out in pretty much every advanced stat, PER, Win shares, ws/48, BPM, VORP. Any stat you want to look at shows Mitch deserves to be paid a lot more than Bamba.
How about FT % and 3 pt shooting?
Those seemed to be the most important in today's NBA to stretch the floor and open space.
But I was in the minority on draft night, and again here in FA. Would I have preferred spending a few mill a year less on Brunson, of course. But he will be light years ahead of any other PG this team has had in 20 years. He literally plugs the teams greatest weakness. He lets Rose go back to his best role, off the bench. He takes the ball out of Randles hands. He’s smart and tough. Does he have weaknesses, of course. Is he a top five PG, no. Never will be either.
Does Brunson make the Knicks better the next few season yes. Miles better. Is he likely to become an albatross contract, very unlikely.
Same with Mitch. Most fans are frustrated because they thought he was a future star. Good news, they aren’t paying him like a future star. Because he isn’t one. But at that price, he is fine. When he plays, he is still a very valuable piece. But he’s always injured.
Well, they got the perfect complimentary piece to back him up. Another analytics freak type, like Mitch used to be. But different style of play. Great, great combo, and injuries are less of a concern now.
Yeah, still a superstar away. But all but a small handful of teams can say the same thing. Better than being lottery bound and knowing it in July, IMO.
More importantly, they’ve got all the flexibility in the world to move if someone shakes loose. Young talent, depth, movable larger contracts, and draft picks.
Charlotte for Hayward would be ideal - Knicks are light at the SF spot anyway behind RJ.
Was this a rumor? I thought the Hayward trade talk was to clear up money to give Bridges a max or close to max extension (def not happening now). I don't really get why Charlotte would want Randle. He's not a good fit with Lamelo imo and there's no head case risk with Hayward.
RE: As much as I would love for them to move Randle,
there remains a small probability that he bounces back from last year in a big way. Before his monster all-star season, he was really bad in NY, the fans hated him and wanted him gone and the Knicks brass had taken Toppin and were shopping Randle. He responded to that by quietly getting in really good shape, working his ass off in the summer and buying in to being a team player. We haven't heard a peep from him this offseason and a small part of me wonders if we could get a much better version of Randle (wouldn't expect 2020-21 ever again though).
I wouldn't bet on any of this as he's clearly a volatile head case but it's a possible outcome
I think he very likely does "bounce back."
The real tragedy is that Julius is a very good passer "for a big man." The big mistake was trying to make him a Point Forward and consistently run the offense through him.
Julius can easily be an 18/10 guy, with physical play in the paint. As far as I'm concerned, the biggest plus of Jalen's signing is that the ball will be taken out of Julius' hands.
RE: RE: Randle is much more of a trade priority than Fournier.
Charlotte for Hayward would be ideal - Knicks are light at the SF spot anyway behind RJ.
Was this a rumor? I thought the Hayward trade talk was to clear up money to give Bridges a max or close to max extension (def not happening now). I don't really get why Charlotte would want Randle. He's not a good fit with Lamelo imo and there's no head case risk with Hayward.
He replaces Bridges, who most likely is going to be oit of the league
Beal is making $50 million a year. They got a deal on Morant, paying him early, so he only gets $40M per year. Zion freaking Williamson is getting the max and he's played in what, 7 games? It's absolutely insane. $50M PER YEAR!!!
Its not so much that I don't like him as a player, but he's very limited and gets hurt a lot. He can't be relied on and offensively, if its not a dunk, he brings nothing to the table. He's very long on defense and makes a difference, but he's also a bit undisciplined(I know he's gotten better), but he's not a high IQ player at all.
I actually disagree that he's still undisciplined on defense. His fouling is so much better and it seemed to me that most of the fouls he had last year were when he was defending a really good post player (still a weakness, but there are fewer and fewer of these guys today) and covering up for bad defense from Randle or Fournier or Kemba. He cleans up a lot of junk around him.
His problem is that he's a zero on offense, aside from lobs and elite offensive rebounding. That's why Hartenstein will be a nice change of pace with his passing and shooting.
If it's straight 15M per, that puts him at about 12th in the league for centers. Would be overpay for sure, but not bad, really. I'll wait for the details before I decide if it's really a big overpay.
He replaces Bridges, who most likely is going to be oit of the league
They're not remotely similar players though and Randle has an extra two years on his deal + Hayward is pretty much their only good 3 point shooter. If I were a Hornets fan I'd be pretty unhappy if that deal happened
Its not so much that I don't like him as a player, but he's very limited and gets hurt a lot. He can't be relied on and offensively, if its not a dunk, he brings nothing to the table. He's very long on defense and makes a difference, but he's also a bit undisciplined(I know he's gotten better), but he's not a high IQ player at all.
I actually disagree that he's still undisciplined on defense. His fouling is so much better and it seemed to me that most of the fouls he had last year were when he was defending a really good post player (still a weakness, but there are fewer and fewer of these guys today) and covering up for bad defense from Randle or Fournier or Kemba. He cleans up a lot of junk around him.
His problem is that he's a zero on offense, aside from lobs and elite offensive rebounding. That's why Hartenstein will be a nice change of pace with his passing and shooting.
If it's straight 15M per, that puts him at about 12th in the league for centers. Would be overpay for sure, but not bad, really. I'll wait for the details before I decide if it's really a big overpay.
Yea I think the biggest wart in Mitch's game is that he's not going to be able to be on the floor in close games at the end.
You saw it once last year, another team just fouling him and letting him shoot FTs. Unless he makes a leap there, he'll always be limited in 4th quarters.
Based on last year I am reserving judgment, but 4/60 all guaranteed would absolutely be a bad deal from the minute it is signed. Even if it is really something like 3/39 (assuming bonus and last year not guaranteed), that seems to me at best neutral value.
RE: RE: As much as I would love for them to move Randle,
there remains a small probability that he bounces back from last year in a big way. Before his monster all-star season, he was really bad in NY, the fans hated him and wanted him gone and the Knicks brass had taken Toppin and were shopping Randle. He responded to that by quietly getting in really good shape, working his ass off in the summer and buying in to being a team player. We haven't heard a peep from him this offseason and a small part of me wonders if we could get a much better version of Randle (wouldn't expect 2020-21 ever again though).
I wouldn't bet on any of this as he's clearly a volatile head case but it's a possible outcome
I think he very likely does "bounce back."
The real tragedy is that Julius is a very good passer "for a big man." The big mistake was trying to make him a Point Forward and consistently run the offense through him.
Julius can easily be an 18/10 guy, with physical play in the paint. As far as I'm concerned, the biggest plus of Jalen's signing is that the ball will be taken out of Julius' hands.
after last season this might be the best aspect of all
Come on he hit 49 % ft last year and has been hurt every year he has been here. Plus does zero to stretch the floor.
He is ours and we are over the cap but it's a shitty overpay.
Mo Bamba got 2 years 21 million.
This is similar to the deals last year it's okay not to max out everyone.
Mitch is a much better player in basically every way except shooting. Mitch blows him out in pretty much every advanced stat, PER, Win shares, ws/48, BPM, VORP. Any stat you want to look at shows Mitch deserves to be paid a lot more than Bamba.
with the Robinson deal. Likely its 3y, $15mm per with a team option for 4th year. It may even be better than that e.g. incentives making up some of the $15mm.
Being able to floor space is a really nice benefit to a center
of the Mitch deal. If its a full 4/60 i really dont like it.
i am guess its 4 for 50 and 10 in incentives
The money is meaningless because what the Knicks are doing is a five-part strategy:
1. Sign Brunson because this is the last time Knicks will be under the cap (if the rebuild is successful).If it's not successful, then Brunson says "bye-bye" after 3 seasons.
2. Resign all your own young players because ultimately the CBA makes it so that your own guys are really the best deal.
3. Any future acquistions will be through sign and trades (or exceptions like MLE).
4. Accumulate draft capital. This allows you to keep getting young guys if you do indeed become a top team. Also facilitates sign and trades.
5. Keep all guys who will be able to play minutes now or in the future. For example, we have all seen Cam is not really NBA worthy right now. But you keep him unless you feel he just has no shot.
Wonder if a Lavine sign and trade is part of those discussions and thats why he hasnt signed yet, otherwise it doesnt really make sense, should be a pretty straight forward deal
55 million in NYC is just not the same as 55 million in Florida so Knicks always have to pay a few extra million per year.
That's also the REAL reason a lot of max players don't want to come here. The max in NY is not really the max elsewhere.
So, Knicks needed to give Mitch that few extra million
I think the tax thing gets completely overplayed by fans. It doesn’t stop the Lakers from signing anyone they want. ThecNets didn’t have an issue signing big time stars. Do we have any examples of players that decided to go elsewhere because of the state tax? I think it has much more to do with the fact that the Knicks have sucked and teams like the Heat have been much better than it has to do with a tax. If the Knicks are good, players would come.
Wonder if a Lavine sign and trade is part of those discussions and thats why he hasnt signed yet, otherwise it doesnt really make sense, should be a pretty straight forward deal
Could be possible. If the Bulls are serious then they would probably have to include Lavine. I doubt a deal built around Ayo,Patrick Williams and some firsts (already traded 2025 first) is getting it done.
Mitchell has to be on the way out to right? I mean he didnt want to really be there before, now you are gutting the team? No way he wants to stay.
Darren Wolfson
@DWolfsonKSTP
I know I’m on record saying it’s hard to see Gobert actually landing here. But the #Timberwolves interest in pairing him with KAT continues to be very real. Former Utah ass’t Dell Demps now in Wolves front office has the book on him.
RE: RE: There are reports Chciago is talking to Nets
Could be possible. If the Bulls are serious then they would probably have to include Lavine. I doubt a deal built around Ayo,Patrick Williams and some firsts (already traded 2025 first) is getting it done.
I can't imagine KD would be happy going to Chicago if Lavine wasn't there. His top two choices were the two teams that finished #1 in the east and west last year. Tells me he's no longer interested in proving he can win a title on his own. I know the Nets will deal him for the best package but if I were a team he didn't want to go to, I don't think I'd go all in for him. Not only is he going to be 34 and gets hurt a lot but if he doesn't want to be there it'll get ugly... again.
I know Mitchell doesn't like Gobert but without him
Shams Charania
@ShamsCharania
·
1m
NBA All-Star Zach LaVine has agreed to a five-year, $215.2 million maximum contract to return to the Chicago Bulls, with a player option in Year 5, Klutch Sports CEO Rich Paul told
@TheAthletic
55 million in NYC is just not the same as 55 million in Florida so Knicks always have to pay a few extra million per year.
That's also the REAL reason a lot of max players don't want to come here. The max in NY is not really the max elsewhere.
So, Knicks needed to give Mitch that few extra million
I think the tax thing gets completely overplayed by fans. It doesn’t stop the Lakers from signing anyone they want. ThecNets didn’t have an issue signing big time stars. Do we have any examples of players that decided to go elsewhere because of the state tax? I think it has much more to do with the fact that the Knicks have sucked and teams like the Heat have been much better than it has to do with a tax. If the Knicks are good, players would come.
CA is the one exception for two reasons:
1. It's weather is unique. Same mild temperature all year long along the coastal shelf. That appeals to young guys more than NYC's cultural attractions (museums, opera, theater etc ).
2. CA real estate in LA and Bay Area is still golden in a way that NYC is not any more. You make back all the tax money and more with high end real estate. Can't really do that in NYC any more unless you buy in a "transition" neighborhood at the right time. But these guys are not living in transition neighborhoods
Shams Charania
@ShamsCharania
·
1m
NBA All-Star Zach LaVine has agreed to a five-year, $215.2 million maximum contract to return to the Chicago Bulls, with a player option in Year 5, Klutch Sports CEO Rich Paul told
@TheAthletic
@Stadium
.
Probably took this long because Rich Paul was waiting to see if he could get Chicago to take Westbrook in a sign and trade so he could get LaVine on the Lakers with the rest of his clients…
Mitchell has to be on the way out to right? I mean he didnt want to really be there before, now you are gutting the team? No way he wants to stay.
Darren Wolfson
@DWolfsonKSTP
I know I’m on record saying it’s hard to see Gobert actually landing here. But the #Timberwolves interest in pairing him with KAT continues to be very real. Former Utah ass’t Dell Demps now in Wolves front office has the book on him.
Mitchell wants Gobert gone it's what they get in return that matters if its picks and young players that don't help now they are laying the foundation for Mitchell to ask out.
That deal up there is crazy!
I think they are trying to get Mitchell to ask out to save face with the fan base.
RE: I know Mitchell doesn't like Gobert but without him
I'm not even sure Utah is a non play-in team in the west.
Related to the other discussion, looks like Lavine's deal is done
If they do trade Gobert, there really isn’t any reason to hold on to Mitchell. The Royce O’Neal trade seems to signal they are looking to rebuild, so why keep Mitchell while you’re trying to do that? Even being optimistic you’d be at least 2-3 years away from being decent again, and at that point Mitchell’s contract is almost up and he probably leaves.
55 million in NYC is just not the same as 55 million in Florida so Knicks always have to pay a few extra million per year.
That's also the REAL reason a lot of max players don't want to come here. The max in NY is not really the max elsewhere.
So, Knicks needed to give Mitch that few extra million
I think the tax thing gets completely overplayed by fans. It doesn’t stop the Lakers from signing anyone they want. ThecNets didn’t have an issue signing big time stars. Do we have any examples of players that decided to go elsewhere because of the state tax? I think it has much more to do with the fact that the Knicks have sucked and teams like the Heat have been much better than it has to do with a tax. If the Knicks are good, players would come.
CA is the one exception for two reasons:
1. It's weather is unique. Same mild temperature all year long along the coastal shelf. That appeals to young guys more than NYC's cultural attractions (museums, opera, theater etc ).
2. CA real estate in LA and Bay Area is still golden in a way that NYC is not any more. You make back all the tax money and more with high end real estate. Can't really do that in NYC any more unless you buy in a "transition" neighborhood at the right time. But these guys are not living in transition neighborhoods
How many big name players have place in NYC and are working out there right now?
It's on Instagram every day.
If you sign a max deal I am not sure the state tax out ways the endorsements and such.
Look at Mitchell he lives in NY the whole off-season.
over the next 4 years, you are not getting a great return, in my opinion. Maybe the deal could be built around Russell since there have been talks of MINN wanting to move him, but if the rumors of ainge wanting a rebuild are true then im guessing they are getting picks and filler.
I wonder if he does prefer to be traded but Ainge is keeping it under wraps to get the maximum return and maybe Mitchell isn't in a rush to do it now either?
RE: RE: I know Mitchell doesn't like Gobert but without him
I'm not even sure Utah is a non play-in team in the west.
Related to the other discussion, looks like Lavine's deal is done
If they do trade Gobert, there really isn’t any reason to hold on to Mitchell. The Royce O’Neal trade seems to signal they are looking to rebuild, so why keep Mitchell while you’re trying to do that? Even being optimistic you’d be at least 2-3 years away from being decent again, and at that point Mitchell’s contract is almost up and he probably leaves.
I agree but there is a rif between Gobert and Mitchell.
This could be to satisfy Mitchell.
Its not so much that I don't like him as a player, but he's very limited and gets hurt a lot. He can't be relied on and offensively, if its not a dunk, he brings nothing to the table. He's very long on defense and makes a difference, but he's also a bit undisciplined(I know he's gotten better), but he's not a high IQ player at all.
I actually disagree that he's still undisciplined on defense. His fouling is so much better and it seemed to me that most of the fouls he had last year were when he was defending a really good post player (still a weakness, but there are fewer and fewer of these guys today) and covering up for bad defense from Randle or Fournier or Kemba. He cleans up a lot of junk around him.
His problem is that he's a zero on offense, aside from lobs and elite offensive rebounding. That's why Hartenstein will be a nice change of pace with his passing and shooting.
If it's straight 15M per, that puts him at about 12th in the league for centers. Would be overpay for sure, but not bad, really. I'll wait for the details before I decide if it's really a big overpay.
You are correct that the fouls have come down a little, but he's still an undisciplined defender. His defense is far from perfect and at 4/60, his complete lack of offensive game makes this an overpay, IMO. Can he turn into Tyson Chandler? I guess it's possible and it's not asking too much. Like someone earlier said though, 3/45 with a team option is possible.
RE: RE: RE: I know Mitchell doesn't like Gobert but without him
I'm not even sure Utah is a non play-in team in the west.
Related to the other discussion, looks like Lavine's deal is done
If they do trade Gobert, there really isn’t any reason to hold on to Mitchell. The Royce O’Neal trade seems to signal they are looking to rebuild, so why keep Mitchell while you’re trying to do that? Even being optimistic you’d be at least 2-3 years away from being decent again, and at that point Mitchell’s contract is almost up and he probably leaves.
I agree but there is a rif between Gobert and Mitchell.
This could be to satisfy Mitchell.
Then they wouldnt of trade Oneal for nothing and letting paschal walk
mitchell. If they were trying to appease him they wouldnt have done the other few moves they did this offseason. I mean he is signed there so they can do whatever they want and have him stay, but it seems odd to gut the team when your star already wants out.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I know Mitchell doesn't like Gobert but without him
I'm not even sure Utah is a non play-in team in the west.
Related to the other discussion, looks like Lavine's deal is done
If they do trade Gobert, there really isn’t any reason to hold on to Mitchell. The Royce O’Neal trade seems to signal they are looking to rebuild, so why keep Mitchell while you’re trying to do that? Even being optimistic you’d be at least 2-3 years away from being decent again, and at that point Mitchell’s contract is almost up and he probably leaves.
I agree but there is a rif between Gobert and Mitchell.
This could be to satisfy Mitchell.
Then they wouldnt of trade Oneal for nothing and letting paschal walk
Yep
So what are they doing?
Conley would be the other shoe to drop since they just paid him too.
We all know Ainge is going to want the house and the farm for Mitchell.
He has been known to keep leaks to a minimum maybe he is slow rolling the rebuild to get to Mitchell last.
Is horrible he has 4 years left at over 160 million. Last year is 46 million player option. Ainge has worked magic before but that's a tough sell. Gobert is not a 1st or 2nd option on a championship team.
makes perfect sense, he had to tell any superstar we will sign you for a gazillion dollars and you HAVE to take it. That's how negotiations go, right? You're a schmuck. You keep building your team until you hit paydirt. They needed a competent PG and got one. They needed a more athletic, younger, offensive center- and got one! That's called building your team.
makes perfect sense, he had to tell any superstar we will sign you for a gazillion dollars and you HAVE to take it. That's how negotiations go, right? You're a schmuck. You keep building your team until you hit paydirt. They needed a competent PG and got one. They needed a more athletic, younger, offensive center- and got one! That's called building your team.
I am more excited about Hartenstein than Mitch I could see them splitting minutes by mid season. The spacing he is going to provide will help Brunson and RJ big time
makes perfect sense, he had to tell any superstar we will sign you for a gazillion dollars and you HAVE to take it. That's how negotiations go, right? You're a schmuck. You keep building your team until you hit paydirt. They needed a competent PG and got one. They needed a more athletic, younger, offensive center- and got one! That's called building your team.
Knicks aren't building anything.They basically scapegoated a few players and replaced them.Is it really this hard to figure out?,some of them do play the same position on the court.
If you want to follow guys with this type of finger pointing mentality,be my guest.We'll see how far they get.
makes perfect sense, he had to tell any superstar we will sign you for a gazillion dollars and you HAVE to take it. That's how negotiations go, right? You're a schmuck. You keep building your team until you hit paydirt. They needed a competent PG and got one. They needed a more athletic, younger, offensive center- and got one! That's called building your team.
Knicks aren't building anything.They basically scapegoated a few players and replaced them.Is it really this hard to figure out?,some of them do play the same position on the court.
If you want to follow guys with this type of finger pointing mentality,be my guest.We'll see how far they get.
Huh?? They scapegoated who? Burks, Noel and Walker? Since those are players gone. Are you saying that Noel and Walker had productive years last year? ALso i havent really heard any finger pointing by the team. Fans say those guys had shit years along with Fournier and Randle, which they did all have shit years.
It's not a game changing offseason so far, but the team got better
and we have more draft assets moving forward than we did before the draft. At some point need to turn all these picks into an all-star via trade or draft but this is the healthiest the Knicks roster has been in twenty years.
Will be here to start the season unless a Mitchell trade drops for salary filler.
They need shooting from Fournier and I doubt Thibs trusts Grimes just yet. I hope they wait on Randle to see if they can up his value which I think Rose does, one thing he has is patience.
This is a solid team with potential if everyone plays to their capabilities.
Probably 8th to 10th team in the east.
makes perfect sense, he had to tell any superstar we will sign you for a gazillion dollars and you HAVE to take it. That's how negotiations go, right? You're a schmuck. You keep building your team until you hit paydirt. They needed a competent PG and got one. They needed a more athletic, younger, offensive center- and got one! That's called building your team.
Knicks aren't building anything.They basically scapegoated a few players and replaced them.Is it really this hard to figure out?,some of them do play the same position on the court.
If you want to follow guys with this type of finger pointing mentality,be my guest.We'll see how far they get.
makes perfect sense, he had to tell any superstar we will sign you for a gazillion dollars and you HAVE to take it. That's how negotiations go, right? You're a schmuck. You keep building your team until you hit paydirt. They needed a competent PG and got one. They needed a more athletic, younger, offensive center- and got one! That's called building your team.
Knicks aren't building anything.They basically scapegoated a few players and replaced them.Is it really this hard to figure out?,some of them do play the same position on the court.
If you want to follow guys with this type of finger pointing mentality,be my guest.We'll see how far they get.
Huh?? They scapegoated who? Burks, Noel and Walker? Since those are players gone. Are you saying that Noel and Walker had productive years last year? ALso i havent really heard any finger pointing by the team. Fans say those guys had shit years along with Fournier and Randle, which they did all have shit years.
Don't take the bait. The guy is one of those fans that knows a handful of household name players and anything short of that fuels his criticism.
Mike Vorkunov
@MikeVorkunov
· 4m
The NBA is changing its take foul rule for Las Vegas Sumer League, and for its summer leagues in California and SLC. Now the penalty for a take foul is a free throw and the ball to the team that gets fouled.
RE: Good, hope this sticks for the regular season...
Mike Vorkunov
@MikeVorkunov
· 4m
The NBA is changing its take foul rule for Las Vegas Sumer League, and for its summer leagues in California and SLC. Now the penalty for a take foul is a free throw and the ball to the team that gets fouled.
at the 4, but either way works. Not the biggest of lineups, but if Williams can stay healthy he is such a beast on the boards and on D that they can get away with it.
for awhile on here, the only real negative is health. BOS didnt have a lot of avenues to improve without breaking up the Brown/Tatum core. Getting a player of Brogdons ability while giving up nothing is a pretty good risk to take for a team that just made a finals run. Like taking a risk on Brogdon makes a hell of a lot more sense for them then it did for us.
(Yes in my opinion) is the only team who could get Durant without help. I see the pieces there. Not saying they want him or will get him but there is a fit.
to get brogdon when you are asking him to be your 3rd or 4th option and if he misses 25 games, big deal, your team is talented and deep. They just want him to be healthy come playoff time. And
Ya tried to post a Twitter page claiming jazz are open for business in regards to Mitchell. Prolly best it didn’t come through cause no one else is reporting it yet
It's probably them jumping on Windhorst's extremely
makes perfect sense, he had to tell any superstar we will sign you for a gazillion dollars and you HAVE to take it. That's how negotiations go, right? You're a schmuck. You keep building your team until you hit paydirt. They needed a competent PG and got one. They needed a more athletic, younger, offensive center- and got one! That's called building your team.
Ghost trolls the Knicks threads constantly. And if he is an actual Knicks fan he or she still acts like a troll. Not worth responding. Every move is the worst and the Knicks suck and always will suck. Fresh takes daily from ghost.
Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn
·
1m
The Timberwolves are sending Malik Beasley, Patrick Beverley, Walker Kessler, Jarred Vanderbilt and multiple first-round picks for Gobert, sources tell ESPN.
Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn
·
1m
The Timberwolves are sending Malik Beasley, Patrick Beverley, Walker Kessler, Jarred Vanderbilt and multiple first-round picks for Gobert, sources tell ESPN.
Mitchell has to be next no way he will want to play for a tanking team.
It may already be in the works.
Everyone seems to think it's a when, not if for Mitchell
and the two teams most often linked are the Knicks and Heat. I've mostly liked the work Leon has done here but for his sake, if Mitchell is traded it better be to the Knicks given all the picks we can offer, his ties to NYC and the relationship with Rose.
RE: Everyone seems to think it's a when, not if for Mitchell
and the two teams most often linked are the Knicks and Heat. I've mostly liked the work Leon has done here but for his sake, if Mitchell is traded it better be to the Knicks given all the picks we can offer, his ties to NYC and the relationship with Rose.
Well you give up the farm for a team of Mitchell, Brunson and RJ.
Gobert is a great defender but thats a lot to give up. That said Gobert is an awesome compliment to KAT and they still have Russell and Edwards.
Man i hope Mitchell being moved becomes a thing, he cant force his way here (or miami) due to the contract but we would have to have a good shot. Based on these moves im not sure Ainge will have interest in Herro or RJ, who im guessing people will start building trades around. Both of them are about to get big deals in the next year or so. My guess he is going to want more cost controlled guys (rookies, second year, etc..) and a boatload of picks. How many picks can we realistically offer over the next 5 years? Like by NBA rules? Basically we could offer like 5 firsts in a row right, since we have so many extra firsts.
plus Beverley and Beasley, who can be flipped to contenders for more draft capital. Feels like the start of a tear down, not a reload around Donovan Mitchell.
top 5 protected. What on earth is Minnesota thinking
They obviously didn’t pay their cable bill during the Jazz last 2 playoff series in which Gobert was made a complete nonentity by opponents going small.
When was the last time a player was traded mere days after being
Gobert is a great defender but thats a lot to give up. That said Gobert is an awesome compliment to KAT and they still have Russell and Edwards.
Man i hope Mitchell being moved becomes a thing, he cant force his way here (or miami) due to the contract but we would have to have a good shot. Based on these moves im not sure Ainge will have interest in Herro or RJ, who im guessing people will start building trades around. Both of them are about to get big deals in the next year or so. My guess he is going to want more cost controlled guys (rookies, second year, etc..) and a boatload of picks. How many picks can we realistically offer over the next 5 years? Like by NBA rules? Basically we could offer like 5 firsts in a row right, since we have so many extra firsts.
I tried to figure it out but it's quite complicated with all of the protections. I believe though they can trade 7 at least, maybe 8.
Gobert is a great defender but thats a lot to give up. That said Gobert is an awesome compliment to KAT and they still have Russell and Edwards.
Man i hope Mitchell being moved becomes a thing, he cant force his way here (or miami) due to the contract but we would have to have a good shot. Based on these moves im not sure Ainge will have interest in Herro or RJ, who im guessing people will start building trades around. Both of them are about to get big deals in the next year or so. My guess he is going to want more cost controlled guys (rookies, second year, etc..) and a boatload of picks. How many picks can we realistically offer over the next 5 years? Like by NBA rules? Basically we could offer like 5 firsts in a row right, since we have so many extra firsts.
Even if you give up the farm for Mitchell what also matters is what can the knicks do after the trade. Yea it could sting if virtually every major asset not named RJB goes back to Utah, but what if you could still sign or trade for 2-3 big time pieces? I say trade loosely as not sure what they could do.
I’m fine either way but I’d like to unclog the roster some before training camp. Still too many bodies here it would seem plus the whole obi and randle thing.
Are Knicks not interested? I’m shocked if they deal ends up happening with Miami. Tyler Herron is no that great
I'm sure they would be but no reputable reporter has reported that he's actually available (yet). If Herro was on the Knicks he'd have very little trade value but since he's not and he's on the Heat apparently he's the second coming
if we have to clear most of our excess picks and Grimes/IQ/Obi (i dont want to trade him!!) for Mitchell i think i do it. Id try to limit the pick swaps since we can send so many actually picks and that means we still have some firsts over the next few years.
That said if your UTA that isnt that great an offer, yeah 5 straight firsts would be nice but thats really it. Nobody thinks IQ or Grimes have like borderline all star upside. But im not sure what other teams will be able to offer.
Ainge going to Utah is good for our chances but it'll be costly.
blowing it up is def good. They arent looking to trade a disgruntled star for a different star so they can still compete. UTA is clearly burning it all down so they are going to want super young guys or picks. Now of course they could do a 3 way type deal where a Herro or RJ (just an example not saying i want to move him) go somewhere else for the types of assets that Ainge wants.
Ghost trolls the Knicks threads constantly. And if he is an actual Knicks fan he or she still acts like a troll. Not worth responding. Every move is the worst and the Knicks suck and always will suck. Fresh takes daily from ghost.
Like I said,what exactly do you add to this site.Or what do you think you add.
Because at this point, I breeze right past most of your posts
Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn
·
53s
The Jazz gathered six first-round picks in the past 24 hours, including 7-footer Walker Kessler, the 22nd overall pick in the 2022 Draft. The Jazz plan to retool the roster around All-Star G Donovan Mitchell.
Ghost trolls the Knicks threads constantly. And if he is an actual Knicks fan he or she still acts like a troll. Not worth responding. Every move is the worst and the Knicks suck and always will suck. Fresh takes daily from ghost.
Like I said,what exactly do you add to this site.Or what do you think you add.
Because at this point, I breeze right past most of your posts
You still havent answered some of us who asked you what you wanted the Knicks to do
Obi, Quick, Grimes and 5 1sts(the 3 we just got plus 2 of our own unprotected). Do you do it? I do.
Don't think that'll do it. I bet the Knicks would have to part with at least 3 of their own picks unprotected in addition to some (maybe all) of the protected ones we have
Tony Jones
@Tjonesonthenba
League sources: For now, there are no plans by the Utah Jazz to trade star guard Donovan Mitchell. The Jazz are committed to building around him. The Jazz are not done in trade talks. Expect more activity
For a letdown but I can’t help but think we’re gonna trade for Mitchell. Brunson came here for a number of reasons I’m sure, one of them being team stability and direction. The knicks are poised to make the BIG move and Brunson was not that big move, but he allows the knicks to add that big piece.
I think it’s going to happen.
Lets see what they do that can make Mitchell happy
Tony Jones
@Tjonesonthenba
League sources: For now, there are no plans by the Utah Jazz to trade star guard Donovan Mitchell. The Jazz are committed to building around him. The Jazz are not done in trade talks. Expect more activity
Why would Mitchell stick around for a rebuild?
RE: Lets see what they do that can make Mitchell happy
For a letdown but I can’t help but think we’re gonna trade for Mitchell. Brunson came here for a number of reasons I’m sure, one of them being team stability and direction. The knicks are poised to make the BIG move and Brunson was not that big move, but he allows the knicks to add that big piece.
I think it’s going to happen.
I'm cautiously optimistic as well. He really wanted Johnny Bryant to get the Utah HC job apparently. Also has a close relationship with Leon so the Knicks should at the very least have an idea of what he's thinking (unlike with KD)
For a letdown but I can’t help but think we’re gonna trade for Mitchell. Brunson came here for a number of reasons I’m sure, one of them being team stability and direction. The knicks are poised to make the BIG move and Brunson was not that big move, but he allows the knicks to add that big piece.
I think it’s going to happen.
I'm cautiously optimistic as well. He really wanted Johnny Bryant to get the Utah HC job apparently. Also has a close relationship with Leon so the Knicks should at the very least have an idea of what he's thinking (unlike with KD)
Just make sure we keep an additional 2nd round pick after the trade to pay the tampering penalty.
Obi, Quick, Grimes and 5 1sts(the 3 we just got plus 2 of our own unprotected). Do you do it? I do.
a team of Brunson, Mitchell, Barrett, Randle, Mitch, and Fournier doesn't go far in my mind.
In the East next year I think it does. They’d also have to give one of Rose or Fournier to match salaries. And the ceiling is high if Brunson and RJ have another level to their game
I still can't get passed moving all your tradeable assets for a guy who couldn't do it with arguably a better supporting cast. A move will happen but it needs to makes sense.
Obi, Quick, Grimes and 5 1sts(the 3 we just got plus 2 of our own unprotected). Do you do it? I do.
a team of Brunson, Mitchell, Barrett, Randle, Mitch, and Fournier doesn't go far in my mind.
This is how i feel. If you have to give up Obi, Quickley, Grimes plus tons of unprotected picks and you are left with Brunson/Mitchell/RJ/Randle/Mitch how far is that getting you in the eastern conference with Boston, Milwaukee, Miami etc still around ?
I guess i am in the minority but i dont give up all those assets for Mitchell .
RE: Call me crazy but I'd rather have Obi, IQ, Grimes, and the picks.
I still can't get passed moving all your tradeable assets for a guy who couldn't do it with arguably a better supporting cast. A move will happen but it needs to makes sense.
Role players and a center who’s easily negated by small ball isn’t a particularly good supporting cast come postseason. It’s not wrong to be hesitant regarding Mitchell, but the former point should be the reason why, not the latter.
RE: RE: Call me crazy but I'd rather have Obi, IQ, Grimes, and the picks.
I still can't get passed moving all your tradeable assets for a guy who couldn't do it with arguably a better supporting cast. A move will happen but it needs to makes sense.
Role players and a center who’s easily negated by small ball isn’t a particularly good supporting cast come postseason. It’s not wrong to be hesitant regarding Mitchell, but the former point should be the reason why, not the latter.
It is more than just Mitchell though. It was other names that came up over the last couple of years like Beal. People wanted to give up our whole team for him.
Feels like Jazz leaking they want to build around Mitchell
With Mitchell. I like him a lot but is he worth 5 picks, and players with below average defense? He’s not a Lebron/Durant in their prime type. I wouldn’t have a parade If the Knicks gave up the Gobert (plus) package for Mitchell. I honestly think he’s a notch below a true franchise player superstar
Mitchell was a really good defender in college. I don't know why he's struggled so much with it in the NBA but I'd feel pretty good about Thibs making him into a solid defensive player. He has tools, it's not like Brunson who's actually relatively solid defensively but his size limits him against certain players and schemes.
With Mitchell. I like him a lot but is he worth 5 picks, and players with below average defense? He’s not a Lebron/Durant in their prime type. I wouldn’t have a parade If the Knicks gave up the Gobert (plus) package for Mitchell. I honestly think he’s a notch below a true franchise player superstar
IDK. This is a guy who averaged 32/5/5 over 20 straight playoff games while shooting 45/44/86. And he’ll be 26 years old at the beginning of next season.
The problem with the Gobert package is that it was for Gobert.
and said i want to give up 3 unprotected picks for the center who has to be taken off the court when teams go small
I’m still stunned at that package. They could’ve gotten Dejounte Murray for less who made more sense for their team and fits age-wise with Towns and Edwards.
Andy Larsen
@andyblarsen
·
3m
FWIW: I'm hearing some pushback regarding the idea that the Jazz are definitely keeping Donovan Mitchell moving forward.
Sense is that the Jazz are keeping their options open here: they could retool around Mitchell, or trade him for a massive haul to jumpstart a rebuild
He follow that up with “ In particular, watch Miami. Obviously, Kevin Durant is their No. 1 target, but if that doesn't work out, they have been and will continue to be aggressive re: Mitchell.”
Why is Miami being linked to Mitchell so much more than the Knicks? They can’t put together the package we can
Andy Larsen
@andyblarsen
·
3m
FWIW: I'm hearing some pushback regarding the idea that the Jazz are definitely keeping Donovan Mitchell moving forward.
Sense is that the Jazz are keeping their options open here: they could retool around Mitchell, or trade him for a massive haul to jumpstart a rebuild
He follow that up with “ In particular, watch Miami. Obviously, Kevin Durant is their No. 1 target, but if that doesn't work out, they have been and will continue to be aggressive re: Mitchell.”
Why is Miami being linked to Mitchell so much more than the Knicks? They can’t put together the package we can
Everybody is linked to miami, no mention of how they have no salary to send out and they dont control their draft picks...
Meanwhile Knicks have nothing and if they do make a move, they gave up to much
If I'm Sean Marks, I am looking @ what the Wolves gave up for Gobert & laughing @ what KD might fetch.
Gobert's 'defensive prowess' has always made me chuckle. I remember watching a 76ers Jazz game a year or so ago & Embiid putting up 50 on Rudy. Not saying Gobert sucks @ defense, but a tad overrated IMO.
management has some sense of what was bugging him last year, doesn't think it will continue this year, and has had a talk with Randle about being less ball-dominant. I agree with those who've said don't sell low on him.
Mitch-Randle-RJ-Grimes-Brunson - the first 5
Hartenstein-Obi-IQ-Rose - the other 4 of the 9-man rotation
That's a respectable 9-man rotation if Randle is being a team player. Big if, I know.
Depth is Sims-Reddish-Deuce plus a couple of rookie guys. I'm assuming Fournier gets traded.
If I'm Sean Marks, I am looking @ what the Wolves gave up for Gobert & laughing @ what KD might fetch.
you can only trade picks that go out 7 years - and you can't trade back to back picks. So the max offer when it comes to your own picks is typicaly 4 picks and 3 swaps. Of course you can add to that with other picks you've acquired.
But if I'm Marks & I got Phoenix on the phone...I'm asking for all the picks plus Ayton, Bridges, Cam Johnson, & maybe '93 Barkley, Haha.
This is what sometimes causes me to laugh @ these stars wanting to go to other good teams: in order for that team to obtain you, they're going to give up a haul that makes them less desirable when you step back.
a much cleaner fit with their current team imo whose age also aligns well with KAT and Edwards. Gobert is great but I don’t think he’s the guy you give up that package for.
RE: Minnesota could’ve gotten Dejounte Murray for less,
a much cleaner fit with their current team imo whose age also aligns well with KAT and Edwards. Gobert is great but I don’t think he’s the guy you give up that package for.
If true this is bizarre.
RE: Minnesota could’ve gotten Dejounte Murray for less,
a much cleaner fit with their current team imo whose age also aligns well with KAT and Edwards. Gobert is great but I don’t think he’s the guy you give up that package for.
If they are keeping Russell - where’s the fit with Russell and Edwards?
I don’t think he has any trade value. They’ve been trying to move him but only has a year left on his deal anyways. I agree though, it’s not a good fit with Edwards
DiVincenzo signs 2 year, $9.3 million dollar deal with Dubs.
And the Dallas first with RJB and fillers (Fournier) We have best backcourt in east. You aren’t getting him from Ainge for nothing. Play Reddish and Grimes at the 3.
Sounds crazy but I don’t want to give up RJB. I know Mitchell is better but how much. Adding Mitchell and keeping RJB really would set us up nicely going forward.
I'd do this but I expect it would take more young players, i.e., Quick and/or Grimes as well. Maybe even RJ. I don't want to sell the entire farm for Mitchell.
He's got to start putting it all together. He's not a max player right now, but a reasonable extension is fine for him. He's talented. Hope he takes a big leap.
RE: RE: I’m fully apart of the Mitchell is worth it camp
I'd do this but I expect it would take more young players, i.e., Quick and/or Grimes as well. Maybe even RJ. I don't want to sell the entire farm for Mitchell.
Non of the young players we have will grow up to be Mitchell he is 25 and has average 26, 5 and 4 for the last 2 years and has step up in the playoffs multiple times.
If you say Brunson is still improving what is Mitchell doing they are the same age almost to the month.
You get a all-star on the cusp of their prime locked up for 4 years.
You go all in and work out how to keep RJ. Plus he is making 32 million a year for the next 4.
I heard that was around middle of the road for guards
But then we are done. Does Barrett (with the other two ) give us enough to make a run at the title? I’m not too sure.
Probably not. But at a certain point, a team has to make its own luck and find a Steph Curry at 7 or a Donovan Mitchell at 13. Or land a Zion Williamson in free agency.
He's got to start putting it all together. He's not a max player right now, but a reasonable extension is fine for him. He's talented. Hope he takes a big leap.
This is why i want Randle traded so badly. RJ will never reach his full potential with Randle around hogging the ball and pounding it for 23 seconds of the shot clock while having RJ camp at the 3 point line most of the game.
This is aside from Obi going back to being a 15 minute player at max. I just cant believe this front office doesnt realize how badly they need to get rid of Randle so the young nucleus can grow together
They have issues, but if you're not accumulating all these picks and assets to trade for Dejounte Murray or Mitchell, who are we eyeing? We won't be in on Durant. We're going to probably be too good to pick at the top of the lottery. I thought this is what were setting up for because the picks we acquired won't be top 15. I mean we can kick it down the road and let young guys development and maybe just organically get better, but it's a star league, at some point we have to pull the trigger. Mitchell is not going to cost us RJ. Nobody is putting that type of player in these deals. Ainge wants draft capital of which we are overloaded with. At least a couple of the picks traded will have to be ours.
Yes, the plan is to make a big move. You can have a spirited argument that Donovan Mitchell is that guy. I think he's a #2 guy on a championship contender, same as a Bradley Beal.
They should aim higher than just 'best available at thw moment' because they will only get one shot at it.
And went in on Brunson instead of Mitchell.
They basically cost the same(salary) and are under control for 4 more years.
They know you can't run with a 6' 1 backcourt.
Mitchell would have cost you more but is a much better player but they can't admit that and probably say they didn't know Mitchell would shake free so soon.
RE: I simply don't think Mitchell is the definition
Yes, the plan is to make a big move. You can have a spirited argument that Donovan Mitchell is that guy. I think he's a #2 guy on a championship contender, same as a Bradley Beal.
They should aim higher than just 'best available at thw moment' because they will only get one shot at it.
Ok that's fine I am up in the air on Mitchell being a superstar however the chips don't last forever. What player is shaking loose that satisfies your #1 requirement? Prime LeBron? Giannis? When is that type of guy shaking loose? Nobody even as good as Mitchell in their prime has shook loose since the Summer of Durant 3 years ago. Maybe we got a home run at like #15 with this improved scouting dept. But at some point in the next 2 or 3 years our draft capital takes a big hit. I'm fine spending it on an elite #2 option like Mitchell.
RE: RE: I simply don't think Mitchell is the definition
Yes, the plan is to make a big move. You can have a spirited argument that Donovan Mitchell is that guy. I think he's a #2 guy on a championship contender, same as a Bradley Beal.
They should aim higher than just 'best available at thw moment' because they will only get one shot at it.
Ok that's fine I am up in the air on Mitchell being a superstar however the chips don't last forever. What player is shaking loose that satisfies your #1 requirement? Prime LeBron? Giannis? When is that type of guy shaking loose? Nobody even as good as Mitchell in their prime has shook loose since the Summer of Durant 3 years ago. Maybe we got a home run at like #15 with this improved scouting dept. But at some point in the next 2 or 3 years our draft capital takes a big hit. I'm fine spending it on an elite #2 option like Mitchell.
I think everyone forgets Mitchell's 38 playoff average over 10 games a couple years ago when he carried them.
Mitchell has been big in the big games except this last playoffs
That jazz would take Randle but would want quickly to take him on and would not include Mitchell coming here. Knicks said no
Really sad that Randle has negative trade value that Knicks would have to give up assets just to get rid of him. That being said, I am not trading Quickley just to dump him.
I would attach one of those protected picks they got last week if that is what it takes
and takes a step back and lets Rj and Brunson run this team and he becomes the 3rd option, i am fine with it, the onoy downfall would be Obi's minutes but there is a way to get Obi his 25 minutes a night but that involves Thibs playing Obi and Randle together for 10 minutes
Last year, just about everyone was happy he signed for what appeared to be a relative bargain.
Then it turned out that teams figured out how to defense the offense when it was run through him and suddenly he was a problem. It was actually Thibs offense that was the problem. But it's hard to change mid season.
Now, they can implement an offense run through Brunson and Julius can be a 15/10 guy and a positive contributor.
management has some sense of what was bugging him last year, doesn't think it will continue this year, and has had a talk with Randle about being less ball-dominant. I agree with those who've said don't sell low on him.
Del, does that work in this day and age of these multi-tens of $$millions a year athletes? That is aside from whatever ego/personality construct issues Randle may have. Maybe it's not aside.
RE: RE: I'm starting to warm up to the idea of keeping Randle PROVIDED
management has some sense of what was bugging him last year, doesn't think it will continue this year, and has had a talk with Randle about being less ball-dominant. I agree with those who've said don't sell low on him.
Del, does that work in this day and age of these multi-tens of $$millions a year athletes? That is aside from whatever ego/personality construct issues Randle may have. Maybe it's not aside.
As I said, it's a big if. I don't know, just hoping (assuming Randle is not traded).
1. You don't trade Randle to force Thibs' hand into playing Obi more, that's just dumb. If that's the case, then Thibs isn't the right guy for the job and you replace him. If Obi deserves minutes, he should get minutes. Fans may think like this, but teams can't think like this.
2. If Randle has negative value now(I'm not so sure he does), then he will have negative value after the season starts. It's better business to give Randle a chance this season with an improved roster. He will either improve his trade value or he will fit on this roster and help us win games.
3. I like Obi, I really do. I didn't care about how old he was when we drafted him. I didn't care about some of his offensive limitations when we drafted him. I still think he has a lot of young Amare Stoudemire(the 2022 version when everyone shoots 3's) in his game. I think he can be good, but we don't really know if last year was for real. We trade Randle and Obi isn't ready for that role, we have problems.
4. We can't keep signing guys and then trading them for negative value the following year. It's just not how any successful team runs. We've been doing this for years. What we need to do is provide a system and culture that is conducive to winning. When you win, guys are more desirable to other teams.
completely frustrated and gave up, but the year before he was the leader of this team. Everyone rallied around Randle and talked him up as the MVP all the time. His teammates loved him and he led by example. That guy is in there. We just don't have the insight to know what happened last season.
Here's Derek Harper on Brunson in the Post Harper on Brunson - ( New Window )
Gol dang! I know this was alluded to by other poster(s) above, but seeing it all in one para is crazy. Has there ever, ever been a set-up like this in any sport to lure a FA or trade?
Quote:
Brunson grew up in southern New Jersey, and he has strong ties throughout the Knicks organization. Team president Leon Rose is his former agent. Rose’s son, Sam, is his current rep. Brunson has prior relationships with coach Tom Thibodeau and veteran guard Derrick Rose. His father, Rick, was recently added to Thibodeau’s staff. Brunson knows what he’s in for.
However, can we not pretend like Stephon Marbury wasn't a great PG for the Knicks. I know his warts, but he was on a shitshow of an organization and played pretty well for the most part.
However, can we not pretend like Stephon Marbury wasn't a great PG for the Knicks. I know his warts, but he was on a shitshow of an organization and played pretty well for the most part.
Marbury was probably ahead of his time. I still haven't seen a PG as strong as he was going up against centers and being able to finish. The problem was he was primarily a scorer and didn't really make those around him better like PGs were expected to. I think he would have been awesome in today's NBA.
he always looked for his own shot first, but the attention he commanded when he went to the rim got a lot of guys easy shots. He was a badass and its unfortunate that he's looked at like he is because the organization was a joke and he still had something left.
Kevin Durant
@KDTrey5
The ones who were locked in that gym with me know what it is, they know what I’m about. If u haven’t been in there with me, ask around
Some Suns insider on Twitter (with good info in the past)
is indicating a three-teamer is being discussed: KD to PHX, Mitchell to BKLYN, Ayton to Utah, with other moving parts. It’s contingent, however, on Ben Simmons being moved in that deal or a separate one due to that NBA rule prohibiting teams from acquiring a rookie max extension guy via trade (Mitchell), when you already have one on the roster (Simmons).
Not sure there are enough draft picks to go around to satisfy Utah and Brooklyn, and Ayton is just not on the level of Mitchell, and nowhere near KD. Doesn’t pass the smell test for me, but we’ll see.
is indicating a three-teamer is being discussed: KD to PHX, Mitchell to BKLYN, Ayton to Utah, with other moving parts. It’s contingent, however, on Ben Simmons being moved in that deal or a separate one due to that NBA rule prohibiting teams from acquiring a rookie max extension guy via trade (Mitchell), when you already have one on the roster (Simmons).
Not sure there are enough draft picks to go around to satisfy Utah and Brooklyn, and Ayton is just not on the level of Mitchell, and nowhere near KD. Doesn’t pass the smell test for me, but we’ll see.
Why would Utah want to spend a ton of money on Ayton when they no longer have Mitchell around? What would be the point?
RE: Some Suns insider on Twitter (with good info in the past)
is indicating a three-teamer is being discussed: KD to PHX, Mitchell to BKLYN, Ayton to Utah, with other moving parts. It’s contingent, however, on Ben Simmons being moved in that deal or a separate one due to that NBA rule prohibiting teams from acquiring a rookie max extension guy via trade (Mitchell), when you already have one on the roster (Simmons).
Not sure there are enough draft picks to go around to satisfy Utah and Brooklyn, and Ayton is just not on the level of Mitchell, and nowhere near KD. Doesn’t pass the smell test for me, but we’ll see.
but the weirdest may have been when he didn't play a single minute under Dantoni and ultimately got waived. By then his behavior was getting stranger and his ankles were sorta shot.
If you don’t go after mitchell. Who’s the next person we are holding out hope for.
I mean at some point you gotta take a stab and go for it
There is something to be said for getting mitchell and being a 3-6 seed for next several years and winning some playoff series.
For starters in 3-4 years. Mitchell and Brunson are 28-29 and rj 24-25. Your window stays open for longer than that and at that point you would have turned the lolknicks narrative that we are crap and have no consistency or continuity. Players would actually see a team that’s in the hunt and see the energy of a consistent team and I think that’s when you get to make your next move to add another player to the roster.
But as it stands currently what stars are we really gonna wait on. All of them are re upping with there teams for super maxs
If you don’t go after mitchell. Who’s the next person we are holding out hope for.
I mean at some point you gotta take a stab and go for it
There is something to be said for getting mitchell and being a 3-6 seed for next several years and winning some playoff series.
For starters in 3-4 years. Mitchell and Brunson are 28-29 and rj 24-25. Your window stays open for longer than that and at that point you would have turned the lolknicks narrative that we are crap and have no consistency or continuity. Players would actually see a team that’s in the hunt and see the energy of a consistent team and I think that’s when you get to make your next move to add another player to the roster.
But as it stands currently what stars are we really gonna wait on. All of them are re upping with there teams for super maxs
For me it depends on what the actual cost winds up being. If it's proportional to the haul they got for Gobert, then we're talking essentially gutting all the assets we have that could be used to improve that core. In that case if Mitchell were to have an injury that affected the rest of his career, we could wind up in no man's land for some time. Teams that make these trades typically have another star or two to fall back on but right now the Knicks don't.
I do agree with doing something (anything) to become a perennial playoff team amongst the top 4-5 seeds. If the Knicks could get it done by giving up the four other team's picks they have and 2 of their own unprotected firsts I'd probably do that but given what they got for Gobert, I bet Ainge would ask for 4 of our own picks unprotected to start which is terrifying.
If you don’t go after mitchell. Who’s the next person we are holding out hope for.
I mean at some point you gotta take a stab and go for it
There is something to be said for getting mitchell and being a 3-6 seed for next several years and winning some playoff series.
For starters in 3-4 years. Mitchell and Brunson are 28-29 and rj 24-25. Your window stays open for longer than that and at that point you would have turned the lolknicks narrative that we are crap and have no consistency or continuity. Players would actually see a team that’s in the hunt and see the energy of a consistent team and I think that’s when you get to make your next move to add another player to the roster.
But as it stands currently what stars are we really gonna wait on. All of them are re upping with there teams for super maxs
For me it depends on what the actual cost winds up being. If it's proportional to the haul they got for Gobert, then we're talking essentially gutting all the assets we have that could be used to improve that core. In that case if Mitchell were to have an injury that affected the rest of his career, we could wind up in no man's land for some time. Teams that make these trades typically have another star or two to fall back on but right now the Knicks don't.
I do agree with doing something (anything) to become a perennial playoff team amongst the top 4-5 seeds. If the Knicks could get it done by giving up the four other team's picks they have and 2 of their own unprotected firsts I'd probably do that but given what they got for Gobert, I bet Ainge would ask for 4 of our own picks unprotected to start which is terrifying.
Ultimately it’ll come down to cost.
My thing is if we are giving out a ton of picks I want to hold obi and iq as future assets
So if you give up 1sts unprotected in 2023/25/27 Along with protected 1sts via bucks pistons wizards
Whatever salary is needed to match out of (Fournier/Randle/rose)
Then add grimes / cam
You’d have a young team of Brunson/mitchell/rj/obi/Robinson
With atleast quickley / hartenstein/sims/ then go fill out roster with some min level ring playoff chasers.
I mean the twolves didn’t cough up any young assets outside of walker Kessler. They got to keep McDaniels and didn’t even have to throw in Dlo.
Ainge I’d assume just wants a warchest of picks.
If you hold onto iq and toppin gives you some flexibility to make another trade down the line using them as pieces as well
The player development here under Thibs has never been better. Thibs seems to be public enemy number one around here especially when it comes to the kids not playing enough. But the kids are alright. They are progressing. The Obi thing is really the only player I can’t really proclaim as warm and fuzzy but for the most part the other young kids are in a nice place here.
Curious to see how they handle the Obi and Randle situation now and going forward.
However, can we not pretend like Stephon Marbury wasn't a great PG for the Knicks. I know his warts, but he was on a shitshow of an organization and played pretty well for the most part.
Marbury was probably ahead of his time. I still haven't seen a PG as strong as he was going up against centers and being able to finish. The problem was he was primarily a scorer and didn't really make those around him better like PGs were expected to. I think he would have been awesome in today's NBA.
Marbury was NOT ahead of his time. He did make two all-star teams so he didn't suck. But for someone as inefficient as he was - he would have needed a perfect situation to win.
He was pretty good but he wasn't going to lead his team - and even being the 2nd best was questionable.
However, can we not pretend like Stephon Marbury wasn't a great PG for the Knicks. I know his warts, but he was on a shitshow of an organization and played pretty well for the most part.
Marbury was probably ahead of his time. I still haven't seen a PG as strong as he was going up against centers and being able to finish. The problem was he was primarily a scorer and didn't really make those around him better like PGs were expected to. I think he would have been awesome in today's NBA.
Marbury was NOT ahead of his time. He did make two all-star teams so he didn't suck. But for someone as inefficient as he was - he would have needed a perfect situation to win.
He was pretty good but he wasn't going to lead his team - and even being the 2nd best was questionable.
I'm talking about being a score first PG. That was frowned upon not too long ago.
No way the Knicks go after him he is no longer a fit with Brunson.
It would take a set of balls Rose doesn't have to have a back court of Brunson and Mitchell.
The point that Thibs has developed the kids is nonsense.
Quickley, OBI, and Grimes should have been getting minutes all season.
He has on multiple occasions pulled them when they were hot for a little mistake and buried them on the bench.
I would agrue they have developed in spite of Thibs.
I don’t think Barrett should, nor will he, receive the max.
However, can we not pretend like Stephon Marbury wasn't a great PG for the Knicks. I know his warts, but he was on a shitshow of an organization and played pretty well for the most part.
Marbury was probably ahead of his time. I still haven't seen a PG as strong as he was going up against centers and being able to finish. The problem was he was primarily a scorer and didn't really make those around him better like PGs were expected to. I think he would have been awesome in today's NBA.
Marbury was NOT ahead of his time. He did make two all-star teams so he didn't suck. But for someone as inefficient as he was - he would have needed a perfect situation to win.
He was pretty good but he wasn't going to lead his team - and even being the 2nd best was questionable.
I'm talking about being a score first PG. That was frowned upon not too long ago.
Jerry West, Oscar, Clyde (in his prime), Monroe, Dave Bing, Gail Goodrich, Isiah, Nate Arihcbald, Gus "The Wizard" Williams, Jo Jo white, Tim Hardaway, Norm Nixon, Kevin Johnson, and Iverson? Maybe Nixon, KJ and Iverson too recent?
However, can we not pretend like Stephon Marbury wasn't a great PG for the Knicks. I know his warts, but he was on a shitshow of an organization and played pretty well for the most part.
Marbury was probably ahead of his time. I still haven't seen a PG as strong as he was going up against centers and being able to finish. The problem was he was primarily a scorer and didn't really make those around him better like PGs were expected to. I think he would have been awesome in today's NBA.
Marbury was NOT ahead of his time. He did make two all-star teams so he didn't suck. But for someone as inefficient as he was - he would have needed a perfect situation to win.
He was pretty good but he wasn't going to lead his team - and even being the 2nd best was questionable.
I'm talking about being a score first PG. That was frowned upon not too long ago.
Jerry West, Oscar, Clyde (in his prime), Monroe, Dave Bing, Gail Goodrich, Isiah, Nate Arihcbald, Gus "The Wizard" Williams, Jo Jo white, Tim Hardaway, Norm Nixon, Kevin Johnson, and Iverson? Maybe Nixon, KJ and Iverson too recent?
CJ Golson
@cjgolson
BREAKING: Per source, I’m told #Heat star Jimmy Butler has been in “constant contact” with #Nets’ Kevin Durant and #Jazz’ Donovan Mitchell about the possibility of teaming up in Miami. All 3 players now pushing hard to make it a reality. I’m told Heat are “all-in” on adding both.
Listen Pat the Rat may be a Wizard, but I don't think even salary cap Jesus could find a way to add 70 mill, halving few draft picks to deal. Lol I guess he can dump Lowry and his 60 mill and Robinson's 4 years and 70 left. Should be pretty easy seeing as we just had to give up like 6 draft picks to dump a couple of 9 mill expirings...
However, can we not pretend like Stephon Marbury wasn't a great PG for the Knicks. I know his warts, but he was on a shitshow of an organization and played pretty well for the most part.
Marbury was probably ahead of his time. I still haven't seen a PG as strong as he was going up against centers and being able to finish. The problem was he was primarily a scorer and didn't really make those around him better like PGs were expected to. I think he would have been awesome in today's NBA.
Marbury was NOT ahead of his time. He did make two all-star teams so he didn't suck. But for someone as inefficient as he was - he would have needed a perfect situation to win.
He was pretty good but he wasn't going to lead his team - and even being the 2nd best was questionable.
I'm talking about being a score first PG. That was frowned upon not too long ago.
Jerry West, Oscar, Clyde (in his prime), Monroe, Dave Bing, Gail Goodrich, Isiah, Nate Arihcbald, Gus "The Wizard" Williams, Jo Jo white, Tim Hardaway, Norm Nixon, Kevin Johnson, and Iverson? Maybe Nixon, KJ and Iverson too recent?
However, can we not pretend like Stephon Marbury wasn't a great PG for the Knicks. I know his warts, but he was on a shitshow of an organization and played pretty well for the most part.
Marbury was probably ahead of his time. I still haven't seen a PG as strong as he was going up against centers and being able to finish. The problem was he was primarily a scorer and didn't really make those around him better like PGs were expected to. I think he would have been awesome in today's NBA.
Marbury was NOT ahead of his time. He did make two all-star teams so he didn't suck. But for someone as inefficient as he was - he would have needed a perfect situation to win.
He was pretty good but he wasn't going to lead his team - and even being the 2nd best was questionable.
I'm talking about being a score first PG. That was frowned upon not too long ago.
Jerry West, Oscar, Clyde (in his prime), Monroe, Dave Bing, Gail Goodrich, Isiah, Nate Arihcbald, Gus "The Wizard" Williams, Jo Jo white, Tim Hardaway, Norm Nixon, Kevin Johnson, and Iverson? Maybe Nixon, KJ and Iverson too recent?
🤦🏽♂️
Ditto.
You're so annoying. You're bringing up HoF players and comparing them to Marbury. Marbury is not that player. He was labeled as a selfish player who played in an era where the 3 ball wasn't emphasized like it is today with the spacing on the floor. He went up against the bigges guys on the court all the time when defenses were harder to score against.
I made a simple comment stating that he would have been better in today's NBA than when he played. Simple. I'm not sure why you continue to be a dick.
was so inefficient. He was a scorer. He got guys easy shots just by going to the rim and finishing where he was a beast. It's a different game now and like robbie said, he'd probably be better in todays game when the paint wasn't so clogged.
Getting both of those players. There only assets are hero who is average to slightly above average and Bam who people rate really high, but I don’t think he is anything special. He is very good but not a top 30 guy
For Ainge.
They might be able to pull KD because Nets will take back players to get to 40 wins.
Ainge is going full tank mode and will want picks and young talent.
You're so annoying. You're bringing up HoF players and comparing them to Marbury. Marbury is not that player. He was labeled as a selfish player who played in an era where the 3 ball wasn't emphasized like it is today with the spacing on the floor. He went up against the bigges guys on the court all the time when defenses were harder to score against.
I made a simple comment stating that he would have been better in today's NBA than when he played. Simple. I'm not sure why you continue to be a dick.
I made simple reply that he wasn't ahead of hs time.
Noooo was the point I was making -- - you said he would've been better in today';s NBA and that isn't true.
He made two all-star teams back then - so how bad was he? And that's about what he would be now - maybe with expansion you give him a couple more. But that's not ":ahead of his time."
And if he was the number 1 option in this era- where do you think he would've led his teams?
I'm not being a dick. You are just extremely over-exaggerating Marbury. He was a pretty good player. But to suggest he was "ahead of his time" is a lunatic observation.
When Marbury was in his prime the NBA was more pass first point guards, even Iverson was moved to SG..
Nowadays it is more shoot first point guards, people want rhat scoring Point guard, its more combo guards..
And for a shoot first point guard he still averaged 8 assists a game
It's really not that hard ot understand that Marbruy was considered an all-star pg.
Robbie is making up the other stuff. You can google for yourself and see he is up there as far as all-time point guards. To suggest that he was ahead of his time when it is so blatantly obvious you easily google that he was thought of as being pretty good.
His issue would be the same issue he has today - he as a number 1 player would not have bene able to get his teams far at all.
Go ahead and google it. But it’s not your style. You sort of talk out of your ass often.
But I think through his track record now with 2 orginizations Ainge has shown he doesn't give a shit where Mitchell "wants" to land. He's gonna make the best deal for the Jazz. Oh and by the way both Durant and Mitchell are under contract with their teams and NOT free agents so I doubt Butler is openly arranging things because that is big time tampering.
KD & Robin Lundberg going back and forth at each other on
Who are you looking to watch in Summer League? For me, Aamir Simms (misspelled by the NBA in the link), Jean Montero and Trevor Keels. J. Sims, Grimes and Deuce should all do well but I enjoy seeing new guys too. We never really got a look at A. Simms last year. Knicks' 2022 Summer League roster - ( New Window )
But I think through his track record now with 2 orginizations Ainge has shown he doesn't give a shit where Mitchell "wants" to land. He's gonna make the best deal for the Jazz. Oh and by the way both Durant and Mitchell are under contract with their teams and NOT free agents so I doubt Butler is openly arranging things because that is big time tampering.
Players are allowed to tamper..
Iq has been hanging out with Mitchell a lot this summer..
Who are you looking to watch in Summer League? For me, Aamir Simms (misspelled by the NBA in the link), Jean Montero and Trevor Keels. J. Sims, Grimes and Deuce should all do well but I enjoy seeing new guys too. We never really got a look at A. Simms last year. Knicks' 2022 Summer League roster - ( New Window )
I'd like to see what Deuce can do at point. Like to see Grimes shoot 50% from 3. Sims like to see show some versatility on the offensive side and stay out of foul trouble.
Be interested to see if Keels can be a back 4 for when we trade Randle.
Keels is a 6'4" shooting guard. Could possibly play the 3
“I know the talk has been Knicks but I think there is a reasonable chance Donovan Mitchell winds up with the Nets with Simmons being sent out in a three way deal.
Something to the effect of Simmons + picks to Utah, Mitchell and Bridges to BK with a pick or two, and KD to Phoenix. Ayton would likely be moved in the deal also.
If I’m the Nets I’d ask for at least two firsts and a swap or two but seems like a doable scenario for all at least“
Just what Danny Ainge is looking for, a rebuild centered around Ben Simmons and a first or two!
I guess (he's supposed to be physical) but not the 4 I don't think. That's why I'm interested to see A Simms as he is mainly a 4.
Keels was 6'3 at the combine with the 4th highest body fat and 4th lowest vert and shuttle run plus his biggest issue is shooting.
He has a lot of work to do to play at the next level. I think he was playing football like a year ago.
He is a project and needs to cut weight and get faster
I think I heard Keels was a five star recruit coming out of high school. From the Duke games I watched last season, he wasn't half bad. He's a big dude & his defense was impressive. His shooting was hit or miss though.
Who are you looking to watch in Summer League? For me, Aamir Simms (misspelled by the NBA in the link), Jean Montero and Trevor Keels. J. Sims, Grimes and Deuce should all do well but I enjoy seeing new guys too. We never really got a look at A. Simms last year. Knicks' 2022 Summer League roster - ( New Window )
Rather ironic that they spelled "Aamir" correctly but not "Simms."
I think I heard Keels was a five star recruit coming out of high school. From the Duke games I watched last season, he wasn't half bad. He's a big dude & his defense was impressive. His shooting was hit or miss though.
Played D-end for Duke. He is built for Football I think he needs to slimdown for the NBA.
I think I heard Keels was a five star recruit coming out of high school. From the Duke games I watched last season, he wasn't half bad. He's a big dude & his defense was impressive. His shooting was hit or miss though.
He stupidly chose Duke over Virginia but otherwise acquitted himself well his first year. Seems like a guy who will incrementally get better.
The Los Angeles Lakers and Brooklyn Nets are actively engaged in trade discussions centered on a Russell Westbrook-Kyrie Irving package, league sources tell @YahooSports:
The Los Angeles Lakers and Brooklyn Nets are actively engaged in trade discussions centered on a Russell Westbrook-Kyrie Irving package, league sources tell @YahooSports:
He makes it seem like it is close and then you read the article and says Nets are in no rush
This is what i dont get, you have simmons for 4 yearzls, why dont you at least make the team fit around him, i get you are just trying to get as much talent but at least make it fit..
You arent tanking, get shooters and surround simmons and let him play thr point
I think Marks is an idiot if he trades Irving for Russ. I get that Kyrie wants to go to LA, but fuck that. I wouldn't want any part of Russ if I'm a Nets fan.
Says that Utah would be intrigued by an offer of 4 picks, 3 swaps and a young player for Donovan Mitchell.
Haha! Well no shit. I’m sure they would
Yeah just more or less showing that the narrative is going from
Jazz are building around mitchell and keeping him to now ok we’d entertain trading him for a big pick package .
Mitchell’s gotta be on the way out
Says that Utah would be intrigued by an offer of 4 picks, 3 swaps and a young player for Donovan Mitchell.
So something along the lines of Toppin, 2023 Dallas pick top 10 protected, 2023 Wizards lottery protected, 2023 Knicks unprotected, 2025 Knicks unprotected, and swaps in 2024, 2026, 2027?
That seems like way too much. If they could get it down to 3 of those picks and 2 swaps or the 4 picks and 1 swap then maybe. It’s honestly the pick swaps 5 years down the line that would be the deal breaker , who the hell knows what happens between now and then. You could end up giving away the first pick in the draft in a swap.
That he’s great but not so great where he’s that clear cut slam dunk guy to go all in on. The lack of good defense is concerning with him. I mean I’d love to see Mitchell here but maybe it’s fair to say he’s not worth the huge cost.
When Marbury was in his prime the NBA was more pass first point guards, even Iverson was moved to SG..
Nowadays it is more shoot first point guards, people want rhat scoring Point guard, its more combo guards..
And for a shoot first point guard he still averaged 8 assists a game
It's really not that hard ot understand that Marbruy was considered an all-star pg.
Robbie is making up the other stuff. You can google for yourself and see he is up there as far as all-time point guards. To suggest that he was ahead of his time when it is so blatantly obvious you easily google that he was thought of as being pretty good.
His issue would be the same issue he has today - he as a number 1 player would not have bene able to get his teams far at all.
Go ahead and google it. But it’s not your style. You sort of talk out of your ass often.
What am I making up? He played 14 years and was an all star 2 times. He took a ton of shit in NY for his style of play. Again, the simple point I stated was his game would have translated better to today's NBA. That is all. If you disagree then fine but what is your point? To be annoying in your opinion? I don't need to google Marbury. I watched him play. He got passed around a lot in the NBA for a reason.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Great article on Brunson.
You're so annoying. You're bringing up HoF players and comparing them to Marbury. Marbury is not that player. He was labeled as a selfish player who played in an era where the 3 ball wasn't emphasized like it is today with the spacing on the floor. He went up against the bigges guys on the court all the time when defenses were harder to score against.
I made a simple comment stating that he would have been better in today's NBA than when he played. Simple. I'm not sure why you continue to be a dick.
I made simple reply that he wasn't ahead of hs time.
Noooo was the point I was making -- - you said he would've been better in today';s NBA and that isn't true.
He made two all-star teams back then - so how bad was he? And that's about what he would be now - maybe with expansion you give him a couple more. But that's not ":ahead of his time."
And if he was the number 1 option in this era- where do you think he would've led his teams?
I'm not being a dick. You are just extremely over-exaggerating Marbury. He was a pretty good player. But to suggest he was "ahead of his time" is a lunatic observation.
I am making stuff up? Lol. When did I say he was bad? The guy averaged like 19 and 8 on the Knicks. I never said that. I am saying he took a lot of criticism for his play that he wouldn't be criticized for today because of how the game has changed. I am not saying he needed to be a number 1 either. Again, you are the one making shit up. When I said he was ahead of his time, I simply mean that his game would have translated better in today's NBA with the spacing and lack of true centers and lack of defense. He was criticized for not elevating the play of others but in today's NBA tyat style os wanted by teams. Not sure why you are trying to turn a mountain out of a molehill.
Mitchell not elite? I agree not KD or steph (YET) only 25 years old. Other than Luca (at that age) who would you rather have??? 25 and under which fits our teams age. Not many I can think of.
Mitchell not elite? I agree not KD or steph (YET) only 25 years old. Other than Luca (at that age) who would you rather have??? 25 and under which fits our teams age. Not many I can think of.
He’s definitely an elite player what concerns me (I use that term loosely as I’d be thrilled if we got him) is we would probably need to add another even better player or better two way force to round out the team. The backcourt would be terrific but I’d feel better if Scottie pippen circa 1994 or draymont green was on this team to sort of bump up the defensive look.
And maybe we’d get that kind of player after Mitchell. I’d probably do it, but maybe some trepidation along the way.
Maybe RJB would turn into that junk yard dog type we need
Maybe it’s someone else. It would be fun to see that’s for sure.
And then there is the Thibs factor as he never really coached a bad defensive team. Guys buy in.
If they have a lineup of Brunson, Mitchell, RJ, and Robinson they should call up Portland and see if they’d be willing to flip Jerami Grant’s expiring deal for Randle. If you could get Grant to bring the complimentary player he was with Denver he would be a great fit at the 4 with those other guys.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Great article on Brunson.
I am making stuff up? Lol. When did I say he was bad? The guy averaged like 19 and 8 on the Knicks. I never said that. I am saying he took a lot of criticism for his play that he wouldn't be criticized for today because of how the game has changed. I am not saying he needed to be a number 1 either. Again, you are the one making shit up. When I said he was ahead of his time, I simply mean that his game would have translated better in today's NBA with the spacing and lack of true centers and lack of defense. He was criticized for not elevating the play of others but in today's NBA tyat style os wanted by teams. Not sure why you are trying to turn a mountain out of a molehill.
Just because I disagree with you doesn’t mean I’m making a mountain out of a molehill. I am simply responding to imo your extreme overexaggerating of Marbury. You saying he was “ahead of his time” and “how would have been awesome in today’s NBA” is extreme. These things are “made-up,” and they are extreme. You sent me two separate posts and have made several other on this topic (albeit mostly to me but this is to Kned and Vanzetti and any others that agree with you too.). Plus I enjoy the conversation so--
First off- I never suggested that you said that he was bad. Overall I agree with the sentiment he was a pretty good player but having big issue with "ahead of hit time," and "would be awesome in today's NBA."
But what I don’t agree with your points is that you seem to think he wouldn’t have been “as criticized” but yet he would have still been “criticized.” SO your point of him being “awesome in today’s NBA” is way off-base. As a result of him being criticized to a degree of overall not winning – that would have been justified today just as it was beck then He didn’t win. He couldn’t play with Kevin Garnett. He gets traded from the Nets to Phoenix for Kidd (and while ofc not as good as Kidd)-but Nets go from 26-56 (with Marbury) to losing in NBA Finals (with Kidd) while Phoenix goes from 51-31 with Kidd to 35-46 with Marbury. Granted not all his fault but in-around these years Marbury was an All-Star. These are extreme "team" numbers. His quality of play couldn’t translate into wins. Same would have been in this era.
This just further illustrates the same problem he had back then that would happen in today’s NBA; as good as he was there were going to be quite a few teams with better number 1/ number 2 players that would have beaten a team led by Marbury in this era too. What good teams in this era would Marbury-led have beaten if he was the number 1 player other than playing against teams hurt by injury? Yes he would have had more points and assists but he would have gotten abused at the other end too. He wasn’t a defender. Heck his rebound numbers (granted the era wasn’t conducive to pg.’s rebounding) but he averaged just around 2.6 to 3.4 for his career. Heck 6’0 Tim Hardaway was a better rebounder than Marbury.
And with all this you are implying he got a bad rap? Since when is losing as much as he did warrant giving him a pass? This is New York. OFC he is going to get criticized a ton if he is losing, and there is history he had. In New York they boo Derek Jeter. Boo Mariano Rivera. Boo this current tremendous Yankee team when they had a tough 2-game stretch,. So – seriously you are saying or implying he wouldn’t be criticized today if he wasn’t winning but just because on offense he would be putting up good numbers in the spread offense then that would be okay in New York????
Losing does not make one awesome - at least in New York other than a year or two before it gets very old.
Yeah I thought Cuban was a lot of things, but a whiny little bitch is not one of them. I mean it's Jalen friggen Brunson. It's not like we poached 20 year old Lebron.
Katz expects the Knicks to be punished for tampering
Speculated as much on Thursday.
could we be forced to give up our rights to Stephon Marbury?
Ha ha Del this reminds of the 80's when we flirted with signing Kevin McHale to an offer sheet. We never did but Red Auerbach threw the ultimate hissy fit. He signed like 4 Knick Rfa's to offer sheets. I think it was Rory Sparrow, like Sly Williams, Marvin Webster. What a baby. We should have stuck him with all of them that idiot.
The one time the Knicks get a guy they targeted in FA there’s tampering nonsense charges being thrown at them. Never mind what the asshole lakers and heat have gotten away with over the years.
But I would be surprised if Cuban went that route. Is anyone on the planet under the impression that this stuff doesn’t happen all over the league? Of course it does. Cuban whining about it is precious. I’m sure there is tons of dirt that can be dug up on that guy.
pretty ridiculous. Tampering is basically how the NBA works. It's how it's worked since the "age of player empowement" took over
Cash and a 2nd round pick has been the precedent which I don't imagine the NBA will stray from. I'm hoping they get a 2nd round pick or two from Dallas to do a sign and trade (like Fournier last year) although who knows if Dallas will play ball. Cuban is petty.
I agree the Knicks should be charged with tampering.
Pj tuckers contract with the sixers was leaked like 3 days prior to free agency starting. Literally 0 uproar for the sixers to be hit with tampering.
Cubans just a bitch who’s in his feelings wanting the Knicks punished. Everyone tampers. Move along with it
Normally this time of year is buzzing with trades, more FA moves and gossip. But it sounds like the league is a bit frozen waiting for something to happen with Durant. Apparently, half the team in the league is in on Durant so half the league doesn't want to make any trades until it's settled.
And it feels like the Knicks still have a move or two to make.
Will there be a sign-and-trade for Brunson? What are they going to do with Cam. You can't just freeze a young guy on the bench like Thibs did. And Randle usually plays 38 minutes in a Thibs offense. Obi deserves more minutes where will that come from? With Robinson and Hart newly signed it is unlikely they will play a Randle/Toppin front line.
Will the Knicks keep Rose (I hope so) since Jalen/RJ/Fournier will suck up a lot of the guard minutes.
Will there be a sign-and-trade for Brunson? What are they going to do with Cam. You can't just freeze a young guy on the bench like Thibs did. And Randle usually plays 38 minutes in a Thibs offense. Obi deserves more minutes where will that come from? With Robinson and Hart newly signed it is unlikely they will play a Randle/Toppin front line.
As I understand it, they've already signed Brunson, so I don't think there will be a sign-and-trade. And with Cuban pissed at the Knicks I doubt there will be a trade with the Mavs. I think they keep Randle but agree that with Rob/Hart at C, it's unlikely they'll play a Randle/Toppin front line. So I think Obi's minutes will continue to be an issue.
Most likely to be traded, imv, are Fournier and Reddish. I could see other teams being interested in them.
"9:33 p.m. ET: Free-agent guard Jalen Brunson has agreed to a four-year, $104 million deal with the New York Knicks, his agents Aaron Mintz and Sam Rose of CAA Basketball told ESPN's Adrian Wojnarowski. The deal includes a player option on the final season."
I thought sign-and-trade meant the player signs with the old team first (on terms agreeable to the new team) and then gets traded. That ship has sailed, no?
It is impressive, but his % will probably go down a bit in NY. In Dallas he was functionally an off-guard in some possessions when Luka was controlling the ball. As a pure PG, he’ll have a lot more possessions when the ball gets dumped on him with the shot clock running down and he has to hoist a low % shot.
Fundamentally, the original team has to be amenable to the terms of the sign-and-trade, especially when the new team has space to sign the player outright as a FA anyway, right? And a sign-and-trade would provide Dallas with some form of compensation for Brunson. Intuitively, I would assume that a sign-and-trade renders the tampering charge moot, but I have nothing to base that on besides the logic that a sign-and-trade requires - at least nominally - that the player signs with his original team and is traded to his new team subsequently. And thus, if Brunson technically signs a contract with Dallas, and then Dallas enters into a trade agreement with the Knicks of their own volition, there could logically be no tampering.
But, since this is the NBA, where the salary cap isn't a cap, teams can't trade their first-round pick in consecutive years but can trade that same player immediately after selecting them, and future first-round picks can become second-round picks if they take too long to convey, I suspect that a sign-and-trade would in no way alter the allegation of tampering by the Knicks, logic be damned.
Perhaps. Supposedly the LeBron and Bosh to Miami in 2010 ended up being sign-and-trades in order to keep the Cavs and Raptors from going to the league.
But the league is starting to crack down on this more often. In previous cases, I believe the league needed a paper trail (e-mails, texts) in order to prove its case. Not sure if the burden of proof is now lower.
The point of a sign in trade in a situation like this
Is typically to create a trade exception for team who lost the player.
I'm this case, Dallas would give the Knicks a very small asset. Knicks would agree because it costs them nothing. And Dallas get a $20M trade exception. The only downside for the Knicks is that they are then hard capped but that won't matter for them this year.
Is typically to create a trade exception for team who lost the player.
I'm this case, Dallas would give the Knicks a very small asset. Knicks would agree because it costs them nothing. And Dallas get a $20M trade exception. The only downside for the Knicks is that they are then hard capped but that won't matter for them this year.
True, although I would assume Dallas would be looking for a player to use that space on anyway, so if Fournier (for example) is appealing to the Mavs (in the sense that he's comparable to the sort of player they'd use the exception to acquire anyway), he could be sent to Dallas if they were so inclined, couldn't he? Or would a trade exception be more appealing regardless?
I know with connections to athletes in general (not necessarily a Knicks source) said the Knicks were at least "in contact" with Carmelo Anthony. Not that there was any traction or an offer or anything but that they had spoken since FA opened.
I know with connections to athletes in general (not necessarily a Knicks source) said the Knicks were at least "in contact" with Carmelo Anthony. Not that there was any traction or an offer or anything but that they had spoken since FA opened.
If they move Randle, bringing back Melo would be fun as the backup 4.
I know with connections to athletes in general (not necessarily a Knicks source) said the Knicks were at least "in contact" with Carmelo Anthony. Not that there was any traction or an offer or anything but that they had spoken since FA opened.
I know with connections to athletes in general (not necessarily a Knicks source) said the Knicks were at least "in contact" with Carmelo Anthony. Not that there was any traction or an offer or anything but that they had spoken since FA opened.
If they move Randle, bringing back Melo would be fun as the backup 4.
My complete guess is this was along the lines of what was discussed.
Is typically to create a trade exception for team who lost the player.
I'm this case, Dallas would give the Knicks a very small asset. Knicks would agree because it costs them nothing. And Dallas get a $20M trade exception. The only downside for the Knicks is that they are then hard capped but that won't matter for them this year.
It's also a hedge against a tampering charge. If the Knicks get a 2nd round pick in this upcoming draft, it's likely that's the pick they would forfeit.
could do a lot worse then Sexton. In 2020 he averaged 24 on near 48% shooting and 37% from 3. It was only his 3rd year so who is to say what he is moving forward. Problem with his market is he is restricted and teams know they have to overpay or CLE will match, nobody is dying to overpay Sexton coming off an injury.
I know its rare but in his case id prolly take the QO and play out the year as opposed to taking a 4/48 deal or whatever CLE is looking to pay him. I know the risk is huge and 48 mill is a lot of money, but still.
Sure and there are dozens of such examples but Holmgren also very much impressed this season in college. Maybe he won't hold up with that build but he and Giddey looked better than any player on that court by a significant margin.
"Chet Holmgren hit 7-of-9 shots, four 3-pointers and 5-of-5 free throws for 23 points, seven rebounds, four assists, one steal and six blocks in Tuesday's 98-77 Summer League win over the Jazz. "
its can he gain the strength to battle bigs in the NBA, will he be able to handle someone getting physical with him..
You wont know that in summer league, he is going to dominate, what does he do in training camp when Isiah Stewart is banging him and pushing him around, how does he respond to that
its can he gain the strength to battle bigs in the NBA, will he be able to handle someone getting physical with him..
You wont know that in summer league, he is going to dominate, what does he do in training camp when Isiah Stewart is banging him and pushing him around, how does he respond to that
In fairness, Stewart likely bodies Obi as well. He has 30+ pounds on him.
its can he gain the strength to battle bigs in the NBA, will he be able to handle someone getting physical with him..
You wont know that in summer league, he is going to dominate, what does he do in training camp when Isiah Stewart is banging him and pushing him around, how does he respond to that
In fairness, Stewart likely bodies Obi as well. He has 30+ pounds on him.
Thats true but he is still going to have to prove he can go down low..
He is going to be a good player simply because of the skill he possesses, but if he cant go down low or he is injired a lot ita going to be a major problem
Bobby Marks
@BobbyMarks42
·
4m
Beal becomes only the 10th player to have a no trade clause joining LeBron, KG, Melo, Dirk, Kobe, DWade, Duncan, David Robinson and John Stockton.
The contract also has a 15% trade kicker and player option in year 5.
Bobby Marks
@BobbyMarks42
·
4m
Beal becomes only the 10th player to have a no trade clause joining LeBron, KG, Melo, Dirk, Kobe, DWade, Duncan, David Robinson and John Stockton.
The contract also has a 15% trade kicker and player option in year 5.
Zion stuff doesn't change a ton other than we won't have to argue over him opting out or not, if he lands in NY it'll be after 5 years or after he forces a trade but that was always likely the case.
Ian Begley
@IanBegley
·
59s
Multiple teams have expressed interest in NYK’s Taj Gibson during FA period. Gibson’s contract for next year is fully non-guaranteed. NYK could waive Gibson to create cap space for Brunson or acquire Brunson via S&T. His NYK teammates have roundly praised Gibson over past 3 years
The crazy thing is the GM was getting all kinds of praise for getting out from under Wall's deal and essentially turning it into a couple of good rotational pieces like Kuczma and Caldwell Pope and then he goes and anchors them down with Beal and a non trade for 50 mill the next 5 years. Mind boggling.
Taj is a real warrior, leader and can still play BUT.... with Randle, Obi, Sims, Hartenstein, Mitch and Thibs propensity to roll with what he knows... probably better for both sides to move on. Doesn't even include some small ball 4 for RJB and Reddish.
what the Durant deal winds up looking like. Given the reportedly interested teams, it's hard to see any sort of package that would satisfy the Nets (and their fans). Toronto isn't going to trade Scottie Barnes and it's unlikely (although possible) they'd part with Siakam, OG and picks. It almost seems inevitable that it's a Phoenix deal around Bridges, Cam and maybe Ayton in a s&t.
given his age and their past issues with retaining stars. Zion and Ingram (seemingly) want to be there and they'd be pressing their luck and opening up a possible short title window (and I don't think they'd be legit contenders this year)
Then if not NOLA, I think Raps have best offer. But I agree...I don't see them parting with Barnes. And I wouldn't either; he's 20 or 21 & looks like he can be a multi-time All Star going forward. KD is 34 & has health concerns.
I like listening to NBA radio in Sirius but it's wall to wall Durant 24 hours a day now. They do that. For like months last season it was non stop Ben Simmons. It seems to me Phoenix and them are a perfect fit. They don't want to pay Ayton, and Durant fits perfectly into their contending window right now. Ayton, maybe another promising young player and some picks is probably the best the Nets are gonna do.
Yeah, I wouldn't doubt that. Whoever ends up with KD better be sure he wants to be there or he'll make it miserable for all parties. Gun to head, I think he ends up in Phoenix, but we'll see when. Marks is going to ask for the stars & the moon. He should.
I find it weak AF on Durant's part that the teams he most wants to be traded to are the Suns, winners of 64 games & a Finals participant 13 months ago, & the Heat, a Buckets 3 from going to the Finals this spring.
KD is a helluva talent...he is probably top 20 all time. But he comes across as mentally weak/always looking for an easy way out.
I was listening to a pod-I forget which one-that mentioned that even if KD is traded to Phoenix, it'll be similar to him going to Golden State, in that it'll never be his team. Curry is beloved by Dubs fans & apparently Booker has the same relationship with Suns fans, though Steph is obviously a much superior talent.
Yeah, I wouldn't doubt that. Whoever ends up with KD better be sure he wants to be there or he'll make it miserable for all parties. Gun to head, I think he ends up in Phoenix, but we'll see when. Marks is going to ask for the stars & the moon. He should.
He should but like the Kawhi to Toronto deal, he'll cave eventually. Unfortunately for the rest of us, that may not be until September
A part of me wants Mark to all but say 'Fuck you KD. You're under contract for the next 4 years. We aren't moving you just to placate you & Rich Kleiman. If it takes until 2024, so be it.'
A part of me wants Mark to all but say 'Fuck you KD. You're under contract for the next 4 years. We aren't moving you just to placate you & Rich Kleiman. If it takes until 2024, so be it.'
That’s exactly what I’m hoping for. It’s going to take teams to start taking a hard stance if they want this nonsense to stop. But they won’t. They know it’s too easy for players to play the game to sit out and get paid. The ole “ ouch, my hammy hurts” or “I think I tweaked my back” always does the trick. Until teams can figure out if a player is faking an injury, they are at their mercy. And it’s not easy to say a player is faking it.
Look @ Simmons & his back. I generally side with the players over the owners, but this 'player empowerment' is getting annoying AF. Half of these guys sign a contract & are immediately bitching & asking for a trade before you know it. Look at Zion...he just reupped with the Pels. I'd be shocked if he's not demanding a trade within the next couple of years if NOLA isn't a title contender.
Look @ Simmons & his back. I generally side with the players over the owners, but this 'player empowerment' is getting annoying AF. Half of these guys sign a contract & are immediately bitching & asking for a trade before you know it. Look at Zion...he just reupped with the Pels. I'd be shocked if he's not demanding a trade within the next couple of years if NOLA isn't a title contender.
And Harden. He literally came in fat and out of shape to try to force Houston to trade him. He intentionally sabotaged the team to get his way. I get the idea of why people think player empowerment is a good thing. And I suppose it is in theory. But the reality of it is that it brings out the worst in people and it can often times be an incredibly bad look for those that take extreme measures to get what they want. And it sucks for the fans. Which always takes a back seat
Look @ Simmons & his back. I generally side with the players over the owners, but this 'player empowerment' is getting annoying AF. Half of these guys sign a contract & are immediately bitching & asking for a trade before you know it. Look at Zion...he just reupped with the Pels. I'd be shocked if he's not demanding a trade within the next couple of years if NOLA isn't a title contender.
Yeah, unintended consequences of the designated vet player extension/supermax rules. Instead of incentivizing players to stay with their teams, they're just signing bigger contracts and forcing their way out anyways. I guess you could say that the silver lining is that it does allow teams to recoup some value vs losing a player for nothing in FA. Truth be told, my opinion is that the best way to fix this is to do away with max contracts altogether. It would lead to superstar players having to choose between getting paid far more money and going to whatever existing good team they want to go to. I bet most would choose the money.
Look @ Simmons & his back. I generally side with the players over the owners, but this 'player empowerment' is getting annoying AF. Half of these guys sign a contract & are immediately bitching & asking for a trade before you know it. Look at Zion...he just reupped with the Pels. I'd be shocked if he's not demanding a trade within the next couple of years if NOLA isn't a title contender.
Yeah, unintended consequences of the designated vet player extension/supermax rules. Instead of incentivizing players to stay with their teams, they're just signing bigger contracts and forcing their way out anyways. I guess you could say that the silver lining is that it does allow teams to recoup some value vs losing a player for nothing in FA. Truth be told, my opinion is that the best way to fix this is to do away with max contracts altogether. It would lead to superstar players having to choose between getting paid far more money and going to whatever existing good team they want to go to. I bet most would choose the money.
if you eliminate the max contracts and go to ta hard cap, it would solve a lot of these problems. And it would help to prop up small market teams as well.
Shams Charania
@ShamsCharania
·
36s
The New York Knicks and two-way center Jericho Sims have agreed on a new three-year NBA contract, sources tell @TheAthletic
@Stadium
. Sims averaged 13.5 minutes and 4.1 rebounds in 41 games as a rookie last season, and now earns a standard deal.
Fred Katz
@FredKatz
·
11s
Second-round pick Trevor Keels will sign a two-way contract with the Knicks, sources tell @TheAthleticNBA
. Knicks opened up a two-way spot by giving Jericho Sims a three-year contract, as @ShamsCharania
just reported.
well I guess good for him. Memphis is well run, so they know more than I do.
Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn
Memphis Grizzlies G John Konchar has agreed to a three-year, $19 million contract extension, his agent @GeorgeLangberg
tells ESPN. The deal, fully guaranteed, will take the undrafted guard out of Purdue-Ft. Wayne to $30M in career earnings.
And the deal will be announced in the coming days, but just not yet. The Knicks were not commenting on what the delay was, but there are a number of reasons it could be delayed. One person with knowledge of the situation confirmed that Brunson had an already-scheduled vacation and a camp appearance and would then head to New York for his physical and finish the paperwork.
The delay does leave the possibility of a sign-and-trade if the Knicks and Mavericks could find a suitable exchange. That would allow the Mavericks to recoup something in return for Brunson, although helping the Knicks salary cap situation might not be of interest to Dallas executives who were unhappy with some of the Knicks pursuit of Brunson — particularly the front-row playoff game appearance of Knicks executive vice president William Wesley, along with Allan Houston and Julius Randle.
A sign-and-trade would help the Knicks finish off their roster planning. With the salaries of Brunson and Hartenstein the Knicks would run up to the limit of the cap again, needing to waive the non-guaranteed contract of Taj Gibson to fit the two newcomers on the roster. If they do waive Gibson’s $5.2 million deal, they could still bring him back and he has expressed not only a desire to remain in New York, but also to serve as a coach when his playing days are done.
Completely understand going on vacation with your girlfriend but wild to me that Brunson would risk getting injured (in any possible way) BEFORE signing the contract, not criticizing him, I'd just be in bubble wrap until the ink was dry
Zion stayed but I think them giving him the guaranteed money + that respectable playoff showing made him more receptive to staying there long-term. I literally had a conversation with a member of the Pelicans' coaching staff/front office a few weeks before the playoffs and he said he thought Zion was definitely going to be elsewhere long-term. Wonder why he thought that at the time and wonder what/if anything changed. But I'm happy for New Orleans and happy for Zion. He seems like a really nice kid and I hope he stays healthy.
He's so damn fun to watch, health is the only thing that will stop him from being in that Shaq/LeBron/Giannis tier of scoring at the rim at will. Hopefully he cuts weight and gets closer to his Duke playing weight. He was so much better on defense at Duke when he was like 30 lbs lighter.
that money. With his odd body type and injury history the risk factor would be insane. I mean look at a guy like boogie, he thought he would be getting probably 150-200 million type deals and due to injuries it never happened for him. Its why these guys are signing these deals even when they dont want to be somewhere. Then they just whine their way out of town.
Zion stayed but I think them giving him the guaranteed money + that respectable playoff showing made him more receptive to staying there long-term. I literally had a conversation with a member of the Pelicans' coaching staff/front office a few weeks before the playoffs and he said he thought Zion was definitely going to be elsewhere long-term. Wonder why he thought that at the time and wonder what/if anything changed. But I'm happy for New Orleans and happy for Zion. He seems like a really nice kid and I hope he stays healthy.
He's so damn fun to watch, health is the only thing that will stop him from being in that Shaq/LeBron/Giannis tier of scoring at the rim at will. Hopefully he cuts weight and gets closer to his Duke playing weight. He was so much better on defense at Duke when he was like 30 lbs lighter.
He legit seems like a great kid. Always smiling, tons of charitable stuff, for his own sake I hope he can stay healthy and keep the weight off. He would (and maybe in the future will be) an absolute mega-watt A+ star in a major market aka NY. His most recent picture, he's looking much, much leaner. Good for him.
Towns isn't capable of guarding the smaller quicker 4s in the league, and Gobert isn't a good enough post scorer to punish teams for putting those smaller quicker 4s on him.
IMO, Minny traded all those picks because they know that if this crazy experiment doesn't work then they can trade Towns and recoup a lot of that draft capital.
Anthony Edwards is their Franchise guy now imo, and they're hoping he takes a Ja Morant-like leap in Year 3. It's possible, that kid has star written all over him, but while they're high as ever on Edwards it seems like they're low as ever on Towns.
It's possible that the Towns at PF experiment does work, especially if Edwards ascends to "legit NBA star level" and Gobert remains a DPOY type of player. But if this doesn't work out, I could easily see Towns being on another team next year. Hell, if they stink up the joint to start the year, maybe he even gets traded mid-season. If that's the case, then the Knicks would 100% be one of the teams that aggressively goes after him imo.
think Edwards will become a star. He says some "funny" stuff in interviews but by all accounts works extremely hard on his game and that a switch has turned on since going pro.
c'mon, there is shooting high and there is "absurd"
REPORT: The Brooklyn Nets asked the Minnesota Timberwolves for Karl-Anthony Towns, Anthony Edwards, and 4 draft-picks in exchange for Kevin Durant.
-Chris Haynes
They are shooting high because they have no intention of trading him, they figure if they get what they ask for awesome but they are going to go to KD and be like hey we tried
c'mon, there is shooting high and there is "absurd"
REPORT: The Brooklyn Nets asked the Minnesota Timberwolves for Karl-Anthony Towns, Anthony Edwards, and 4 draft-picks in exchange for Kevin Durant.
-Chris Haynes
They are shooting high because they have no intention of trading him, they figure if they get what they ask for awesome but they are going to go to KD and be like hey we tried
exactly
I agree with that. From what I've seen Nets fans and bloggers
say on Twitter I think they'll be floored when they see the actual return. Like this one
Robin Lundberg
@robinlundberg
·
Jul 5
May be true but I don’t do Phoenix deal without another team(s) and better assets involved and I don’t do Toronto deal without Barnes. Otherwise tell KD I’ll see him in Fall.
Listening to some pods/watching TV...the Nets value getting 2 good pros over draft picks. I think this saga is going to last a bit. I still would love to know what caused KD to go scorched earth with the Nets organization. I know the speculation, but KD is ghosting everyone apparently.
Listening to some pods/watching TV...the Nets value getting 2 good pros over draft picks. I think this saga is going to last a bit. I still would love to know what caused KD to go scorched earth with the Nets organization. I know the speculation, but KD is ghosting everyone apparently.
I am sure they will get a lot for him, but I think teams will be hesitant to give Brooklyn any where near what they are looking for. At this point is KD all that much less of a nut than Kyrie? This will be his 4th team in like 6 years, so clearly you can’t count on him stick around long, he comes off as a total douche in interviews, had a burner account on Twitter, and now routinely goes after fans on there from his main account. Between that and the fact that he’s 34 years old and pretty much always injured, how do you give up even what Minnesota just gave up for Gobert and feel good about it?
Really the only case you can make for it is if by bringing him in you’re the favorite to win the title. I guess you could argue that would be the case in Phoenix, but then you probably only have a 2 year window and can you count on him and CP3 both making it through a full postseason? Just seems like a huge risk that not many teams are in the position to take.
Hiring a guy's dad is a smart move it seems...
@TheSteinLine
·
19s
The most recent estimates for New York's formal offer to Jalen Brunson, league sources say, estimate a four-year deal worth roughly $105 million plus incentives. Exact numbers will be known after July 6 when deals get processed through the league office.
Or D. Rose.
2010: Ray Felton
2011: Toney Douglas
2012: Ray Felton
2013: P. Prigioni
2014: Shane Larkin
2015: Jose Calderon
2016: D Rose
2017: Ramon Sessions
2018: Trey Burke
2019: Allonzo Trier
2020: Elf Payton
2021: Kemba Walker
2010: Ray Felton
2011: Toney Douglas
2012: Ray Felton
2013: P. Prigioni
2014: Shane Larkin
2015: Jose Calderon
2016: D Rose
2017: Ramon Sessions
2018: Trey Burke
2019: Allonzo Trier
2020: Elf Payton
2021: Kemba Walker
Now go back to say 1985. Lol
Quote:
It’s a pretty low bar but it’s true
Or D. Rose.
I guess I expect a little more consistent production than we got from D Rose lol. His recent tenure here has been good but injured a lot. His first was a freakin mess
2010: Ray Felton
2011: Toney Douglas
2012: Ray Felton
2013: P. Prigioni
2014: Shane Larkin
2015: Jose Calderon
2016: D Rose
2017: Ramon Sessions
2018: Trey Burke
2019: Allonzo Trier
2020: Elf Payton
2021: Kemba Walker
Felton was good for a moment but that list is an atrocity.
Fournier and two firsts for Mikal Bridges?
He is going to be a good piece, i am talking more a legit wing scorer
Probably won't know for a bit. Even if they agree on terms, they still can negotiate and involve dallas.
That would open up almost 30 million in space for the Knicks
it keeps getting better!!!
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With DAL making 2023 unprotected
That would open up almost 30 million in space for the Knicks
but for who? There's not much out there.
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In comment 15745027 adamg said:
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With DAL making 2023 unprotected
That would open up almost 30 million in space for the Knicks
but for who? There's not much out there.
Ayton? trade Cam
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In comment 15745032 nygiants16 said:
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In comment 15745027 adamg said:
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With DAL making 2023 unprotected
That would open up almost 30 million in space for the Knicks
but for who? There's not much out there.
Ayton? trade Cam
that's who I want but the KD news complicates it obviously. But if they could figure out a way to to land Ayton - and dump Randle somewhere - you have a young core (Brunon, RJ, Ayton, Obi, Quick, Grimes) under team control with a lot of upside.
There’s no way Beal is turning down the offer Washington is putting on the table
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In comment 15745032 nygiants16 said:
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In comment 15745027 adamg said:
Quote:
With DAL making 2023 unprotected
That would open up almost 30 million in space for the Knicks
but for who? There's not much out there.
Ayton? trade Cam
Ayton worries me...the way he played in the playoffs...
This doesn't make sense to me for two reasons. One, Beal would leave way too much on the table. Two, wasn't he adamant about not wanting to go to NY?
Yep! Good signing
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?
Yep! Good signing
46% from 3.....Ill take 3 of those please
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In comment 15745054 robbieballs2003 said:
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?
Yep! Good signing
46% from 3.....Ill take 3 of those please
14/30... not a really good sample size there
I agree. But I'm more on board now because this guy wanted to come to NYC. And it would have been terrible if yet another "sure thing" spurned the Knicks
Yes, nice move. I like how this is going.
Unfortunately I think we're stuck with Randle for now. Knicks would have to sell low. Signing Mitch and Hartenstein suggests no plan to play Obi and Randle together, either. So still some issues here.
Looks like a greater possibility of moving Fournier and/or Cam.
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In comment 15745055 Strahan91 said:
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In comment 15745054 robbieballs2003 said:
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?
Yep! Good signing
46% from 3.....Ill take 3 of those please
14/30... not a really good sample size there
It's enough to draw space. That would never happen with Noel. And he's healthy. Always available. I suspect this experiment to make mitch hit 3s is going nowhere.
Counting on Sims as your number two center would be a big risk, he will now have to try and earn it. But I bet he gets some minutes.
Thata gotta be next because right now, no minutes for Toppin
A lot of people love this guy. Weird. Never broke 20 minutes in a season yet.
It’s not Christmas so this might take a little longer.
Can Hartenstein hit a bigger number of threes??
It’s only a few milly more than Beal, who’s won exactly zero MVPs. GOD bless ‘em both though.
In a way, this punishes the Clippers, who resurrected Hartenstein’s career on a one-year minimum deal but have no Bird rights with which to retain him. Their best bet is probably to agree to a one-year deal for the taxpayer MLE with a second-year player option, which would allow the Clippers to keep him on a longer deal next summer with early Bird rights.
They’ll have competition, however, in a market where several teams are looking to use their full MLE to address the center position.
Good article on Knicks new center - ( New Window )
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We needed another big. With that said, I wonder where this leaves Sims.
Counting on Sims as your number two center would be a big risk, he will now have to try and earn it. But I bet he gets some minutes.
I don't disagree at all. But my concern is that a lack of minutes will really stunt his growth. As I wrote in the other thread, Sims will be 24 at the beginning of fhe season. He isn't young. And if he is only getting a handful of minutes a night then that completely changes his game as bigs are always over aggressive with minimal minutes as they aren't worried about staying out of foul trouble. And between Mitch, Hartenstein, and Sims, they really only play C, right? If Randle gets moved, would any of them be able to back up Obi?
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In comment 15745060 robbieballs2003 said:
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We needed another big. With that said, I wonder where this leaves Sims.
Counting on Sims as your number two center would be a big risk, he will now have to try and earn it. But I bet he gets some minutes.
I don't disagree at all. But my concern is that a lack of minutes will really stunt his growth. As I wrote in the other thread, Sims will be 24 at the beginning of fhe season. He isn't young. And if he is only getting a handful of minutes a night then that completely changes his game as bigs are always over aggressive with minimal minutes as they aren't worried about staying out of foul trouble. And between Mitch, Hartenstein, and Sims, they really only play C, right? If Randle gets moved, would any of them be able to back up Obi?
Hate to say it, but Sims is good Mitch insurance.
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Baby! Big Hartenstein fan. Love this move.
A lot of people love this guy. Weird. Never broke 20 minutes in a season yet.
Clippers fans were annoyed that he didn’t get more PT. As Knick fans we can certainly relate to that feeling with a young player
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In comment 15745060 robbieballs2003 said:
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We needed another big. With that said, I wonder where this leaves Sims.
Counting on Sims as your number two center would be a big risk, he will now have to try and earn it. But I bet he gets some minutes.
I don't disagree at all. But my concern is that a lack of minutes will really stunt his growth. As I wrote in the other thread, Sims will be 24 at the beginning of fhe season. He isn't young. And if he is only getting a handful of minutes a night then that completely changes his game as bigs are always over aggressive with minimal minutes as they aren't worried about staying out of foul trouble. And between Mitch, Hartenstein, and Sims, they really only play C, right? If Randle gets moved, would any of them be able to back up Obi?
I see Hartenstein giving them the flexibility to move Randle. Can't trade Julius if your only big men are Sims and Mitch.
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In comment 15745075 steve in ky said:
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In comment 15745060 robbieballs2003 said:
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We needed another big. With that said, I wonder where this leaves Sims.
Counting on Sims as your number two center would be a big risk, he will now have to try and earn it. But I bet he gets some minutes.
I don't disagree at all. But my concern is that a lack of minutes will really stunt his growth. As I wrote in the other thread, Sims will be 24 at the beginning of fhe season. He isn't young. And if he is only getting a handful of minutes a night then that completely changes his game as bigs are always over aggressive with minimal minutes as they aren't worried about staying out of foul trouble. And between Mitch, Hartenstein, and Sims, they really only play C, right? If Randle gets moved, would any of them be able to back up Obi?
I see Hartenstein giving them the flexibility to move Randle. Can't trade Julius if your only big men are Sims and Mitch.
That's good to know. So, Hartenstein might be like a Taj type to have some flexibility?
Link - ( New Window )
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In comment 15745075 steve in ky said:
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In comment 15745060 robbieballs2003 said:
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We needed another big. With that said, I wonder where this leaves Sims.
Counting on Sims as your number two center would be a big risk, he will now have to try and earn it. But I bet he gets some minutes.
I don't disagree at all. But my concern is that a lack of minutes will really stunt his growth. As I wrote in the other thread, Sims will be 24 at the beginning of fhe season. He isn't young. And if he is only getting a handful of minutes a night then that completely changes his game as bigs are always over aggressive with minimal minutes as they aren't worried about staying out of foul trouble. And between Mitch, Hartenstein, and Sims, they really only play C, right? If Randle gets moved, would any of them be able to back up Obi?
Hate to say it, but Sims is good Mitch insurance.
I actually think Simms will be better than Mitch and soon
I actually think Simms will be better than Mitch and soon
Based on what?
-Heat writer who is verified but I don’t recognize says they have made a trade offer for Mitchell
"so after all of this...
Italianju : 7/25/2017 7:30 am : link
watch us just end up with the harkless, Leonard, Hartenstein crap we thought we were getting a week or so ago."
As Meat Loaf once said, "two outta three ain't bad"
Link - ( New Window )
Quote:
Very randomly, quasi jokingly tweeted about Hartenstein dating back to 2017, and how big his upside was.. and now he’s here lol
"so after all of this...
Italianju : 7/25/2017 7:30 am : link
watch us just end up with the harkless, Leonard, Hartenstein crap we thought we were getting a week or so ago."
As Meat Loaf once said, "two outta three ain't bad" Link - ( New Window )
HA!
Quote:
Very randomly, quasi jokingly tweeted about Hartenstein dating back to 2017, and how big his upside was.. and now he’s here lol
"so after all of this...
Italianju : 7/25/2017 7:30 am : link
watch us just end up with the harkless, Leonard, Hartenstein crap we thought we were getting a week or so ago."
As Meat Loaf once said, "two outta three ain't bad" Link - ( New Window )
We were literally hoping for Hartenstein and Qi from the Rockets in a Melo trade. That's how pathetic it was. Haha
Really?
Yeah and probably asking for multiple 1st round picks as part of the return
Quote:
As part of trade package for Mitchell
Really?
That’s what’s on Twitter right now from a heat insider
Quote:
Very randomly, quasi jokingly tweeted about Hartenstein dating back to 2017, and how big his upside was.. and now he’s here lol
"so after all of this...
Italianju : 7/25/2017 7:30 am : link
watch us just end up with the harkless, Leonard, Hartenstein crap we thought we were getting a week or so ago."
As Meat Loaf once said, "two outta three ain't bad" Link - ( New Window )
I used to get really into following these random euro or hyped HS guys and Hartenstein was one of them. His highlight videos from Germany were fun and I just liked his overall game. I felt pretty dumb when he went round 2 and floated around the league but it’ll be fun to have him on the knicks
Starting brunson and Fournier is a defensive mess.
Grimes or Quickley or a stronger defender has to be there. Grimes showed advanced defensive play pretty early.
I'd rather have Grimes start a d IQ with the second team and overlap with Brunson. Who is leading the 2nd unit? Rose? McBride?
Seems like there would have to be a lot more there than just Herro and picks for Donovan Mitchell.
Both Grimes and IQ are going to be behind them on the depth chart and are also going to only get 15-20 minutes a night like Toppin. Knicks really need to get rid of 1 of Rose or Fournier to open up minutes for the young players
Both Grimes and IQ are going to be behind them on the depth chart and are also going to only get 15-20 minutes a night like Toppin. Knicks really need to get rid of 1 of Rose or Fournier to open up minutes for the young players
I get your concern but Grimes and Fournier can play the 3 too so it isn't as clogged as say PF with Randle and Obi.
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.
I'd rather have Grimes start a d IQ with the second team and overlap with Brunson. Who is leading the 2nd unit? Rose? McBride?
Rose was the reason we made the playoffs two years ago. I wouldn't sleep on him in that role.
The Joker has to be the best second round pick ever right?
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Fournier and Rose.
Both Grimes and IQ are going to be behind them on the depth chart and are also going to only get 15-20 minutes a night like Toppin. Knicks really need to get rid of 1 of Rose or Fournier to open up minutes for the young players
I get your concern but Grimes and Fournier can play the 3 too so it isn't as clogged as say PF with Randle and Obi.
There is also Reddish who needs playing time at the 3.
There are just not enough minutes to divy up with Brunson/Fournier/Rose/RJ/Grimes/IQ/Reddish and with Thibs and how he favors the vets there is a good chance REddish would not even make the rotation right now, and IQ and Grimes end up with 15 minutes a night .
I mean if you do the math Brunson and RJ play around 35 a night and Fournier plays around 30. That leaves you with 46 minutes between those 3 positions. Rose will get around 20. So 26 minutes to divide between Quickley and Grimes (approximately ). 1 of Rose or Fournier HAS to go in order for both of them to get the minutes they need
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In comment 15745122 adamg said:
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.
I'd rather have Grimes start a d IQ with the second team and overlap with Brunson. Who is leading the 2nd unit? Rose? McBride?
Rose was the reason we made the playoffs two years ago. I wouldn't sleep on him in that role.
But he isn't reliable. He's always banged up and as we've seen the last two years, Thibs likes consistency with his units. Even when Rose got hurt, he kept IQ with the 2nd unit and had Burks with the starters. Thibs will want IQ with that 2nd unit. That doesn't mean he will get backup minutes. We've seen Thibs stick with IQ at the end of games. IQ doesn't have to be a PG but I owe him an apology. That last month and a half he was clicking. Thibs likes combo guards like that and Rose and IQ can easily play off of each other. IQ can come in early to get time with Brunson as well and we'll see how the end of games are handled. And, as has been mentioned before, Brunson will need another defender next to him. That first unit with Brunson, RJ, and Randle already have enough ball handlers. Grimes is a perfect match for that unit.
I mean if you do the math Brunson and RJ play around 35 a night and Fournier plays around 30. That leaves you with 46 minutes between those 3 positions. Rose will get around 20. So 26 minutes to divide between Quickley and Grimes (approximately ). 1 of Rose or Fournier HAS to go in order for both of them to get the minutes they need
Fournier could easily be S&T in the Brunson deal.
And we could deal Rose pretty easily. Trade him to BOS for a couple of second rounders.
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In comment 15745126 Giantfan21 said:
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Fournier and Rose.
Both Grimes and IQ are going to be behind them on the depth chart and are also going to only get 15-20 minutes a night like Toppin. Knicks really need to get rid of 1 of Rose or Fournier to open up minutes for the young players
I get your concern but Grimes and Fournier can play the 3 too so it isn't as clogged as say PF with Randle and Obi.
There is also Reddish who needs playing time at the 3.
There are just not enough minutes to divy up with Brunson/Fournier/Rose/RJ/Grimes/IQ/Reddish and with Thibs and how he favors the vets there is a good chance REddish would not even make the rotation right now, and IQ and Grimes end up with 15 minutes a night .
I mean if you do the math Brunson and RJ play around 35 a night and Fournier plays around 30. That leaves you with 46 minutes between those 3 positions. Rose will get around 20. So 26 minutes to divide between Quickley and Grimes (approximately ). 1 of Rose or Fournier HAS to go in order for both of them to get the minutes they need
Reddish seems like trade bait to me and I wouldn't put him above the others mentioned. Yes, we have a ton of bodies and it will be tough to get these young kids a lot of minutes.
But he isn't reliable. He's always banged up and as we've seen the last two years, Thibs likes consistency with his units. Even when Rose got hurt, he kept IQ with the 2nd unit and had Burks with the starters. Thibs will want IQ with that 2nd unit. That doesn't mean he will get backup minutes. We've seen Thibs stick with IQ at the end of games. IQ doesn't have to be a PG but I owe him an apology. That last month and a half he was clicking. Thibs likes combo guards like that and Rose and IQ can easily play off of each other. IQ can come in early to get time with Brunson as well and we'll see how the end of games are handled. And, as has been mentioned before, Brunson will need another defender next to him. That first unit with Brunson, RJ, and Randle already have enough ball handlers. Grimes is a perfect match for that unit.
You're right. I think your view is going to play out. Thibs likes IQ first of the bench. And having Grimes as the complementary piece to RJ and Brunson does make sense too.
I just hope IQ plays 30 minutes a night.
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I mean if you do the math Brunson and RJ play around 35 a night and Fournier plays around 30. That leaves you with 46 minutes between those 3 positions. Rose will get around 20. So 26 minutes to divide between Quickley and Grimes (approximately ). 1 of Rose or Fournier HAS to go in order for both of them to get the minutes they need
Fournier could easily be S&T in the Brunson deal.
And we could deal Rose pretty easily. Trade him to BOS for a couple of second rounders.
That works for me . Anything to get rid of these Vets. The priority for this front office needs to be figuring out how to get Quickley, Grimes, and Toppin at least 25 minutes a night next season and that will only happen if at least 1 of Rose oor Fournier are traded and Randle
POSITION F
He was projected to C in many draft profiles, it's true. But maybe he could be Obi's backup if we're able to trade Randle.
I actually like Bagley-pains me as a Heels fan to type that- & think he could be good, in the right spot (Ducks).
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In comment 15745136 Giantfan21 said:
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I mean if you do the math Brunson and RJ play around 35 a night and Fournier plays around 30. That leaves you with 46 minutes between those 3 positions. Rose will get around 20. So 26 minutes to divide between Quickley and Grimes (approximately ). 1 of Rose or Fournier HAS to go in order for both of them to get the minutes they need
Fournier could easily be S&T in the Brunson deal.
And we could deal Rose pretty easily. Trade him to BOS for a couple of second rounders.
That works for me . Anything to get rid of these Vets. The priority for this front office needs to be figuring out how to get Quickley, Grimes, and Toppin at least 25 minutes a night next season and that will only happen if at least 1 of Rose oor Fournier are traded and Randle
We'd need to sign somebody though. We'd be clearing space and if we're re-signing Mitch, we might as well go over the cap on that deal.
Then have Quickley with either Rose or Fournier /Reddish/Hartenstein and they would need to add a backup 3 or 4 coming off the bench and that team would be a lot of fun to watch and root for
POSITION F
He was projected to C in many draft profiles, it's true. But maybe he could be Obi's backup if we're able to trade Randle.
Possibly but that is a huge liability on offense if he is playing PF imo.
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we converted him to C once he got here. From his NBA draft profile:
POSITION F
He was projected to C in many draft profiles, it's true. But maybe he could be Obi's backup if we're able to trade Randle.
Possibly but that is a huge liability on offense if he is playing PF imo.
Yeah, he can't shoot. I love his energy and how active he is on the boards but he's not an NBA PF at this point in time.
If they were to trade Randle, who backs up OBI? All of a sudden they would have a big whole at PF.
I agree that they need to find more minutes for Toppin, but I'm not sure of an easy answer without the team suffering for it unless Tibbs will start using them together more often.
Signing Mitch is your best value play. If he walks, you get nothing and the day looks less bright. You can always trade him down the line.
They won't need to. The NBA ahould be investigating that on their own. It was so blatantly obvious. The good news is that the precedent for this is like a 2nd round pick so worst case scenario is that we lose a 2nd.
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right now if there are no sign and trades? We can go over the cap to sign Robinson but that means something else might be coming as we haven't heard anything other than speculation with Mitch so far.
Signing Mitch is your best value play. If he walks, you get nothing and the day looks less bright. You can always trade him down the line.
Okay, but that had nothing to do with what I was talking about. Lol. I'm saying he hasn't signed yet so it seems more moves are on the way otherwise he would have signed already.
Second being Mitch? Did I miss something?
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day for the Knicks. Two good signings.
Second being Mitch? Did I miss something?
Isaiah Hartenstein
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day for the Knicks. Two good signings.
Second being Mitch? Did I miss something?
Ike Hartenstein, formerly of the Clips.
Backup C, 24 y/o
As I said earlier, I was calling for him to be traded before most but now is not the right time unless it is too good to pass up. The problem is nobody wants him now. Fine. He's not a bad player. He has more value to us on the team right now. Thibs just has to give Obi minutes and fans won't be pissed off.
If we re-sign Mitch and having signed Hartenstein - that doesn't sound like a plan involving Randle and Obi playing together.
& my greatest fear with keeping Randle is that its at Obi's expense because let's face it...Thibs is still the coach & unless he has a come to Jesus moment, he is going to ride 'his guys', if you will, at the expense of the youngins.
Rose-IQ-Obi-Hartenstein (9 man rotation for Thibs)
odd men out - Deuce, Sims, Cam, Taj (if back), a couple of rookies
Not saying it's what I'd do but that's how it's looking to me right now
Rose-IQ-Obi-Hartenstein (9 man rotation for Thibs)
odd men out - Deuce, Sims, Cam, Taj (if back), a couple of rookies
Not saying it's what I'd do but that's how it's looking to me right now
+1
As I said earlier, I was calling for him to be traded before most but now is not the right time unless it is too good to pass up. The problem is nobody wants him now. Fine. He's not a bad player. He has more value to us on the team right now. Thibs just has to give Obi minutes and fans won't be pissed off.
If Mitch re-signs it is going to be impossible for
Obi to get more then 15 minutes a night because Randle will not be able to play backup Center .
Randle needs to be traded just to open up minutes for Obi aside from all the other issues on and off the court. It doesnt matter what they can get for him at this point. Just get rid of him and move forward with the youth
Free agent guard Jalen Brunson, armed with a five-year, $106M-plus Mavericks offer, is headed into a meeting with the New York Knicks within the hour, sources tell ESPN.
Fat Joe is a source now?
Riley could sell a broken down 1999 Mercury Mountaineer…
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I was banging the drum to trade him earlier than most and we missed our window. He's not a bad guy at all. He was frustrated last year. I hated his attitude but he does care and wants to be here. Rose, Thibs, Randle, and whoever else need to sit down and have a conversation about what is best for the team and him. Obi needs to play. That's non-negotiable. Thibs needs to find ways to play both m9re consistently. Randle needs to realize he has help and doesn't need to do it all himself. Randle really isn't a selfish player. He is like most though. When things get bad you revert to what you know and what he knows is to dominate the ball. He can't be taking last second shots. He sucks at them. Focus on what he does well and how the team benefits from what he does well. He's not stupid. He'll get it. If at that point he still wants out then the easy selling point is for him to help this team win because that is when his value isnthe highest, not because he scores more. Then he can be moved.
As I said earlier, I was calling for him to be traded before most but now is not the right time unless it is too good to pass up. The problem is nobody wants him now. Fine. He's not a bad player. He has more value to us on the team right now. Thibs just has to give Obi minutes and fans won't be pissed off.
If Mitch re-signs it is going to be impossible for
Obi to get more then 15 minutes a night because Randle will not be able to play backup Center .
Randle needs to be traded just to open up minutes for Obi aside from all the other issues on and off the court. It doesnt matter what they can get for him at this point. Just get rid of him and move forward with the youth
Word from somewhere this offseason was Randle was told his role would decrease. If he plays 32 min a night, that is 16 for Obi and that is not counting time that they can play together hence my comment about sitting Thibs down too. Is it ideal? No but just trading him to trade him doesn't help this team as much as getting more back for Randle. And, as others and myself have pointed out, PF would be a problem behind Obi if Randle was traded. I don't think Cam can be effective there but I could be wrong.
“Fat Joe told me he is close to Mitchell and that Mitchell’s dream is playing for Miami, not his hometown Knicks.”
Link - ( New Window )
Free agent guard Jalen Brunson, armed with a five-year, $106M-plus Mavericks offer, is headed into a meeting with the New York Knicks within the hour, sources tell ESPN.
Woj is CAA
Free agent guard Jalen Brunson, armed with a five-year, $106M-plus Mavericks offer, is headed into a meeting with the New York Knicks within the hour, sources tell ESPN.
Odd
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Life long Knicks fan and friend of Donovan Mitchell…. He wants to play in Miami. Not the Knicks
Fat Joe is a source now?
Fat Joe denies it lol. Was put out there by a Nets writer
Could be that the Knicks are engaged with the Mavericks regarding a S&T. That might be the hangup.
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Where is it already???
Could be that the Knicks are engaged with the Mavericks regarding a S&T. That might be the hangup.
wont be official until the 6th
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In comment 15745250 adamg said:
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Where is it already???
Could be that the Knicks are engaged with the Mavericks regarding a S&T. That might be the hangup.
wont be official until the 6th
Yeah, but they could still agree to a trade in principle
That leaves at best even if Randle gets a reduced role , 16 minutes for Obi which is just not good enough for the way he played at the end of last season .
Obi starts and Reddish can play some 4 and/or frankly im not too worried about them finding a backup 4 between now and the start of the season either in FA or in a trade
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In comment 15745256 Anakim said:
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In comment 15745250 adamg said:
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Where is it already???
Could be that the Knicks are engaged with the Mavericks regarding a S&T. That might be the hangup.
wont be official until the 6th
Yeah, but they could still agree to a trade in principle
I dont know the rules on that, i am sure it woukd leak if its being talked about
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In comment 15745231 DanMetroMan said:
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Life long Knicks fan and friend of Donovan Mitchell…. He wants to play in Miami. Not the Knicks
Fat Joe is a source now?
Fat Joe denies it lol. Was put out there by a Nets writer
A Nets writer? What, there is nothing more important going on in Nets land? Everyone wants out, so let’s try to change the focus and make things up about the Knicks. Fucking pathetic
That leaves at best even if Randle gets a reduced role , 16 minutes for Obi which is just not good enough for the way he played at the end of last season .
Obi starts and Reddish can play some 4 and/or frankly im not too worried about them finding a backup 4 between now and the start of the season either in FA or in a trade
This is probably how it will play out but we don't need to play our centers. Obi and Randle can play the 4/5. It is all dependent upon matchups. There are plenty of opportunities in today's NBA. Most bigs aren't offensive weapons today so Randle can handle some minutes there. Most Centers won't be able to handle Randle and Obi. Centers will have to move out of the paint. It creates mismatches. It is like football. You have to pick and choose your battles. If it comes down to Obi losing minutes or Mitch/Hartenstein then I am trying to sacrifice our centers' min where possible.
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The issue is with signing Hartenstein and possibly Mitch , Randle will not be able to play with Obi because there will be no Center minutes available now.
That leaves at best even if Randle gets a reduced role , 16 minutes for Obi which is just not good enough for the way he played at the end of last season .
Obi starts and Reddish can play some 4 and/or frankly im not too worried about them finding a backup 4 between now and the start of the season either in FA or in a trade
This is probably how it will play out but we don't need to play our centers. Obi and Randle can play the 4/5. It is all dependent upon matchups. There are plenty of opportunities in today's NBA. Most bigs aren't offensive weapons today so Randle can handle some minutes there. Most Centers won't be able to handle Randle and Obi. Centers will have to move out of the paint. It creates mismatches. It is like football. You have to pick and choose your battles. If it comes down to Obi losing minutes or Mitch/Hartenstein then I am trying to sacrifice our centers' min where possible.
1st of all the problem is Thibs is still the coach and he wants a traditionital Center at all times.
Second, it just doesn't make sense to invest money into Mitch and Hartenstein only for them to be glued to the bench so Randle could play there to give Obi more minutes. It's a bad use of resources and clunky roster construction
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In comment 15745274 Giantfan21 said:
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The issue is with signing Hartenstein and possibly Mitch , Randle will not be able to play with Obi because there will be no Center minutes available now.
That leaves at best even if Randle gets a reduced role , 16 minutes for Obi which is just not good enough for the way he played at the end of last season .
Obi starts and Reddish can play some 4 and/or frankly im not too worried about them finding a backup 4 between now and the start of the season either in FA or in a trade
This is probably how it will play out but we don't need to play our centers. Obi and Randle can play the 4/5. It is all dependent upon matchups. There are plenty of opportunities in today's NBA. Most bigs aren't offensive weapons today so Randle can handle some minutes there. Most Centers won't be able to handle Randle and Obi. Centers will have to move out of the paint. It creates mismatches. It is like football. You have to pick and choose your battles. If it comes down to Obi losing minutes or Mitch/Hartenstein then I am trying to sacrifice our centers' min where possible.
1st of all the problem is Thibs is still the coach and he wants a traditionital Center at all times.
Second, it just doesn't make sense to invest money into Mitch and Hartenstein only for them to be glued to the bench so Randle could play there to give Obi more minutes. It's a bad use of resources and clunky roster construction
Again, matchups. This isn't an every game, consistent rotation. It is about having options and not being afraid to take that chance of going with a small lineup.
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In comment 15745263 nygiants16 said:
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In comment 15745256 Anakim said:
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In comment 15745250 adamg said:
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Where is it already???
Could be that the Knicks are engaged with the Mavericks regarding a S&T. That might be the hangup.
wont be official until the 6th
Yeah, but they could still agree to a trade in principle
I dont know the rules on that, i am sure it woukd leak if its being talked about
As much hate as gets tossed around on twitter (which I had to stop looking at) you would think we lost our minds. I’d say we’re a better team today and have a decent outlook for the future. That’s a stark difference from the same old Knicks. Maybe I have Stockholm syndrome but I’m okay with slow and steady getting better for a change. Maybe not a championship team but a team that competes hard is great for this fan.
As much hate as gets tossed around on twitter (which I had to stop looking at) you would think we lost our minds. I’d say we’re a better team today and have a decent outlook for the future. That’s a stark difference from the same old Knicks. Maybe I have Stockholm syndrome but I’m okay with slow and steady getting better for a change. Maybe not a championship team but a team that competes hard is great for this fan.
3 firsts
Link - ( New Window )
How cold JB is?
Does that maybe mean he’s gonna screw the Knicks even knowing his dad will be disappointed in the process and either re up in Dallas or go somewhere else?
They played together at Nova. I'm sure they're buddies.
Patrick Salazar
@cronotoriously
110 million dollars means he's the 15th highest paid PG in the NBA per year. It's not some crazy number. It's quite literally average.
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. Link - ( New Window )
How cold JB is?
Does that maybe mean he’s gonna screw the Knicks even knowing his dad will be disappointed in the process and either re up in Dallas or go somewhere else?
Sarcasm?
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. Link - ( New Window )
They played together at Nova. I'm sure they're buddies.
Definitely.
Link - ( New Window )
Patrick Salazar
@cronotoriously
110 million dollars means he's the 15th highest paid PG in the NBA per year. It's not some crazy number. It's quite literally average.
The AAV would be between 12-15 depending on who you call a point guard.
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In comment 15745325 robbieballs2003 said:
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. Link - ( New Window )
How cold JB is?
Does that maybe mean he’s gonna screw the Knicks even knowing his dad will be disappointed in the process and either re up in Dallas or go somewhere else?
Sarcasm?
Just speculating that maybe Brunson pulls the rug out from under the Knicks (and his dad)…that would be pretty cold, no?
@townbrad
Asked a Mavs source: "How is this not tampering?"
Response: "It is 100% a violation."
link - ( New Window )
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In comment 15745332 The_Boss said:
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In comment 15745325 robbieballs2003 said:
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. Link - ( New Window )
How cold JB is?
Does that maybe mean he’s gonna screw the Knicks even knowing his dad will be disappointed in the process and either re up in Dallas or go somewhere else?
Sarcasm?
Just speculating that maybe Brunson pulls the rug out from under the Knicks (and his dad)…that would be pretty cold, no?
Disregard..according to the Post the deal is official..so, no he won’t be pulling the rug out..I was unaware everything was finalized until just now..
@townbrad
Asked a Mavs source: "How is this not tampering?"
Response: "It is 100% a violation." link - ( New Window )
Take a 2nd.
@townbrad
Asked a Mavs source: "How is this not tampering?"
Response: "It is 100% a violation." link - ( New Window )
Send them a leftover John Starks “The Dunk” poster as compensation..
Patrick Salazar
@cronotoriously
110 million dollars means he's the 15th highest paid PG in the NBA per year. It's not some crazy number. It's quite literally average.
Weird seeing someone post your tweets lol.
12-15 range depending on deal structure. If it's front loaded, closer to 12.
@wojespn
·
29s
Free agent guard Jalen Brunson has agreed to a four-year, $104 million deal with the New York Knicks, his agents Aaron Mintz and Sam Rose of
@CAA_Basketball
tell ESPN. The deal includes a player option on the final season.
@wojespn
·
29s
Free agent guard Jalen Brunson has agreed to a four-year, $104 million deal with the New York Knicks, his agents Aaron Mintz and Sam Rose of
@CAA_Basketball
tell ESPN. The deal includes a player option on the final season.
Great news and a great signing. He’s going to help the Knicks big time.
Still could be, nothing is signed yet
And WHO ELSE is gonna lead the Knicks into the playoffs?
Just an elapsed Knicks fan here asking the question.
And WHO ELSE is gonna lead the Knicks into the playoffs?
Just an elapsed Knicks fan here asking the question.
RJ Barrett
Crazy that he keeps kicking the can down the road? Who has ever been available that he has missed on since he took over? There has been very little movement the past two years.
@wojespn
·
29s
Free agent guard Jalen Brunson has agreed to a four-year, $104 million deal with the New York Knicks, his agents Aaron Mintz and Sam Rose of
@CAA_Basketball
tell ESPN. The deal includes a player option on the final season.
Sam Rose, huh?....Well then.
Well, Brunson had a good run. It'a all downhill from here.
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And we have more assets moving forward than we did at the beginning of the off-season. The team is clearly better. What’s excruciating is waiting for a big deal to come along. Clearly Rose thinks it will eventually. He hasn’t spent assets on a player like Murray. He must be aiming higher. But it is legit crazy that he keeps kicking the can down the road. He must have some guys in mind that will be available. We just have to wait and see if he’s right.
Crazy that he keeps kicking the can down the road? Who has ever been available that he has missed on since he took over? There has been very little movement the past two years.
Crazy is probably the wrong word. More like I can’t believe it. I give Rose this. He’s fucking patient. Two drafts in a row we kick resources forward into future drafts. Still hoarding assets and waiting to pounce. I may have come across as critical but really impressed. Patience and Knicks GM has never been a thing in my time as a fan.
I guess the key thing is that this is not a quick turnaround. He’s gonna really wait until the right guy(s) come available and until then, it’s steady improvement and keep his powder dry, so to speak. Haven’t seen anything like it.
@BobbyMarks42
Remaining FA resources
$5.4M room ML and bird rights to Mitchell Robinson
Jeremy Cohen
@TheCohencidence
This implies that Brunson's contract is descending and that the Knicks went under the cap for Brunson and Hartenstein. No more cap space.
Additionally, if Brunson's contract is 4/$104M as reported, a S&T involving Brunson and Fournier cannot occur due to salary matching issues
Gotta work on next year… Zion and Simmons? Zion and Deandre?
Make it happen!
All of the rumored people to target with our “warchest” of picks are signing extensions and not available. This team still lacks true number 1 and possibly number 2 unless Barrett can prove to be that guy which he hasn’t yet.
Just not sure where or what the move is that can actually have us advance past a play in will come from
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In comment 15745379 Heisenberg said:
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And we have more assets moving forward than we did at the beginning of the off-season. The team is clearly better. What’s excruciating is waiting for a big deal to come along. Clearly Rose thinks it will eventually. He hasn’t spent assets on a player like Murray. He must be aiming higher. But it is legit crazy that he keeps kicking the can down the road. He must have some guys in mind that will be available. We just have to wait and see if he’s right.
Crazy that he keeps kicking the can down the road? Who has ever been available that he has missed on since he took over? There has been very little movement the past two years.
Crazy is probably the wrong word. More like I can’t believe it. I give Rose this. He’s fucking patient. Two drafts in a row we kick resources forward into future drafts. Still hoarding assets and waiting to pounce. I may have come across as critical but really impressed. Patience and Knicks GM has never been a thing in my time as a fan.
I guess the key thing is that this is not a quick turnaround. He’s gonna really wait until the right guy(s) come available and until then, it’s steady improvement and keep his powder dry, so to speak. Haven’t seen anything like it.
Knicks GMs have been patient and played the long game before only to be left at the altar TWICE by the game’s best players at that time.
Unless the Knicks draft the next NBA megastar in the next few years, their fate will likely be decided by whoever is the NBA’s next big game changing free agent. So far they are a resounding 0-2 in that department.
Knicks GMs have been patient and played the long game before only to be left at the altar TWICE by the game’s best players at that time.
Knicks GMs have NEVER before been patient and played the long game. They quick purged and hoped big stars would flock to them. And then threw money at third rate players when it didn’t happen.
All of the rumored people to target with our “warchest” of picks are signing extensions and not available. This team still lacks true number 1 and possibly number 2 unless Barrett can prove to be that guy which he hasn’t yet.
Just not sure where or what the move is that can actually have us advance past a play in will come from
Short answer is, it doesn't stop here.
They have questions to answer about the young players on this roster, and they have to figure out how to get them minutes and regular playing time.
There's no play to be made for a star who wants out. Yet. Probably need to stay the course, see what they have. A good season from everyone boosts all trade value and that can remove the minutes logjams and increase the assets.
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Awesome. Lack of a true point guard has only been half the Knicks problem. They’ve also generally had few players at other positions who were good passers.
The really good teams have multiple unselfish players that get easy buckets for their teammates.
All of the rumored people to target with our “warchest” of picks are signing extensions and not available. This team still lacks true number 1 and possibly number 2 unless Barrett can prove to be that guy which he hasn’t yet.
Just not sure where or what the move is that can actually have us advance past a play in will come from
All these players have to sign the extension it's the only way to max out your deal, then you ask for a trade.
The goal was to make players stay with their teams but players sign the max and ask for a trade.
Knicks need to be ready for a Mitchell or someone else to ask out or draft a superstar.
While his numbers won’t jump out to most in an eye-popping fashion, those who watched Hartenstein play last season know that he does have plenty of juice, high motor, and is the definition of impact. In fact he averaged 1.34 defensive miles per 75 minutes (2nd in the NBA) behind only Jacob Poetl. He’s non-stop energy player who is always on the prowl to get his teammate buckets. Hartenstein has an elite 18.5% assist rate that ranks (92nd percentile among all bigs) in 2022. Hartenstein ranks sixth amongst all centers with an 11.2% adjusted assist-to-pass ratio in 2021-22. His 4.7 assists per 36 minutes was league-leading amongst big men. He excels on finding cutters on backdoor passes constantly.
Link - ( New Window )
As much hate as gets tossed around on twitter (which I had to stop looking at) you would think we lost our minds. I’d say we’re a better team today and have a decent outlook for the future. That’s a stark difference from the same old Knicks. Maybe I have Stockholm syndrome but I’m okay with slow and steady getting better for a change. Maybe not a championship team but a team that competes hard is great for this fan.
What you're not understanding is that despite the Knicks being better - the chances are the ceiling will be so limited that it just wasn't worth it.
Bottomline line is that some of us see this team going nowhere in which we're the ones who actually want slow while you want to spend. You ay you want o see slow and steady but signing Brunson and last year giving a pretty big contract to Randle is not evidence of slow and steady.
Instead it's nothing more that "treading water" without any sort of plan to contend.
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With some impressive passes Link - ( New Window )
Awesome. Lack of a true point guard has only been half the Knicks problem. They’ve also generally had few players at other positions who were good passers.
The really good teams have multiple unselfish players that get easy buckets for their teammates.
Ummmm - the really good teams have superstars.
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Correct me if I’m wrong. We came out of the draft without our pick but with Brunson and two future firsts (heavily protected) we still have major assets in picks going forward and didn’t have to give up anything for our new point guard.
As much hate as gets tossed around on twitter (which I had to stop looking at) you would think we lost our minds. I’d say we’re a better team today and have a decent outlook for the future. That’s a stark difference from the same old Knicks. Maybe I have Stockholm syndrome but I’m okay with slow and steady getting better for a change. Maybe not a championship team but a team that competes hard is great for this fan.
What you're not understanding is that despite the Knicks being better - the chances are the ceiling will be so limited that it just wasn't worth it.
Bottomline line is that some of us see this team going nowhere in which we're the ones who actually want slow while you want to spend. You ay you want o see slow and steady but signing Brunson and last year giving a pretty big contract to Randle is not evidence of slow and steady.
Instead it's nothing more that "treading water" without any sort of plan to contend.
I do understand what your saying but just don’t agree. You have to change the perception around the league that your headed in the right direction and not a laughing stock. The salary cap is going up and we have good young players and picks. Everybody wants a magic wand but you have to show your headed in the right direction before a star is going to come to the Knicks.
Ummmm - the really good teams have superstars.
True. And there are superstars on teams that are not really good.
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In comment 15745299 Svengali said:
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Correct me if I’m wrong. We came out of the draft without our pick but with Brunson and two future firsts (heavily protected) we still have major assets in picks going forward and didn’t have to give up anything for our new point guard.
As much hate as gets tossed around on twitter (which I had to stop looking at) you would think we lost our minds. I’d say we’re a better team today and have a decent outlook for the future. That’s a stark difference from the same old Knicks. Maybe I have Stockholm syndrome but I’m okay with slow and steady getting better for a change. Maybe not a championship team but a team that competes hard is great for this fan.
What you're not understanding is that despite the Knicks being better - the chances are the ceiling will be so limited that it just wasn't worth it.
Bottomline line is that some of us see this team going nowhere in which we're the ones who actually want slow while you want to spend. You ay you want o see slow and steady but signing Brunson and last year giving a pretty big contract to Randle is not evidence of slow and steady.
Instead it's nothing more that "treading water" without any sort of plan to contend.
I do understand what your saying but just don’t agree. You have to change the perception around the league that your headed in the right direction and not a laughing stock. The salary cap is going up and we have good young players and picks. Everybody wants a magic wand but you have to show your headed in the right direction before a star is going to come to the Knicks.
Yes you are right. And by doing that you don't go after 2nd tier players unless you know you are attracting the super player, or you have the superstar and a 2nd tier player will be a huge help. You build through the draft. You don't go and spend on 2nd tier players like the Knicks do.
The idea is to attract the next Kevin Durant by having many young players available that you can move along with letting him decide who he wants to play with instead of forcing him to play with a 2nd tier player not of his choosing .
I hear many say "Brunson is going to average 21/7" and /or "He is going to attract other players." --- But he isn't attracting the superstar. That is just Knicks fans being homers. You have either have the other superstar or have so much cap space that the superstar can dictate who he wants to play with. Brunson averaging 21/7 means nothing unless he wins. ANd if you think this roster is any more than a playin type of dream I have a very large bridge to sell you.
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Ummmm - the really good teams have superstars.
True. And there are superstars on teams that are not really good.
And yet the teams that have won recently and most that have been to finals have superstars. It is rare without that for getting to finals or winning it.
SO why not follow that path? The ball movement seems to follow the superstar. It's why they are superstars.
Which has a ceiling of play-in team.
We have many trade pieces and can make a move for a star.
Put names to these situations. Who were we supposed to bring in? The big names haven't really changed teams in two years. What moves were left on the table where Rose was too patient? What rookie did we pass on that was such a sin?
These multiple threads over the last few days have just been filled with the same same shit from the past 20+ years. Nothing is happening over night. No one move is changing this franchise. There are steps and a plan, even if people don't see it. Others do and you cant just go from sea level to the top of Mount Kilimanjaro in one day. Give it a rest.
We have some of the best,loyal,intelligent well read folks on here...
Its sad that the good stuff gets derailed by absolute garbage
Id like to start a new forum which kicks folks out who do that
I've been accused of being a troll for simply disagreeing with folks...I have seen too many threads just ruined by frankly the lowest denominator....
Thoughts?
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Patrick Salazar
@cronotoriously
110 million dollars means he's the 15th highest paid PG in the NBA per year. It's not some crazy number. It's quite literally average.
Weird seeing someone post your tweets lol.
12-15 range depending on deal structure. If it's front loaded, closer to 12.
Sign of the times
While his numbers won’t jump out to most in an eye-popping fashion, those who watched Hartenstein play last season know that he does have plenty of juice, high motor, and is the definition of impact. In fact he averaged 1.34 defensive miles per 75 minutes (2nd in the NBA) behind only Jacob Poetl. He’s non-stop energy player who is always on the prowl to get his teammate buckets. Hartenstein has an elite 18.5% assist rate that ranks (92nd percentile among all bigs) in 2022. Hartenstein ranks sixth amongst all centers with an 11.2% adjusted assist-to-pass ratio in 2021-22. His 4.7 assists per 36 minutes was league-leading amongst big men. He excels on finding cutters on backdoor passes constantly. Link - ( New Window )
assists and defense - perfect for this team
LOL.
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I think some like to bitch for the sake of bitching. The Knicks are a better team at 6:15 AM this morning then they were at 6:15 AM yesterday.
We have some of the best,loyal,intelligent well read folks on here...
Its sad that the good stuff gets derailed by absolute garbage
Id like to start a new forum which kicks folks out who do that
I've been accused of being a troll for simply disagreeing with folks...I have seen too many threads just ruined by frankly the lowest denominator....
Thoughts?
I’ve always felt BBI NYK threads are some of the best threads I’ve seen anywhere - idiots can always be ignored
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In comment 15745335 Ira said:
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Patrick Salazar
@cronotoriously
110 million dollars means he's the 15th highest paid PG in the NBA per year. It's not some crazy number. It's quite literally average.
Weird seeing someone post your tweets lol.
12-15 range depending on deal structure. If it's front loaded, closer to 12.
Sign of the times
The cap spike of a few years ago changed the landscape. It'll happen again soon too when stars like Ja Morant sign their max extensions.
Every player on this team hasnt peaked, some you dont know even know what their ceiling is..
I dont know how anyone can say well Knicks hit their ceiling..
Still need minutes for Obi and IQ. There's gotta be more moves coming.
The only thing that puts a fun season in jeopardy is 40 mins a night of a sulking Randle. If they don't move him, I really hope they figured out what was up his ass last year.
After sleeping on it, I feel confident that Rose will deliver us a big fish or two some day. I just have no idea who or when. I'm still amazed at his ability to wait when most GMs I know with the pressure he's under would look at all the assets and decide to do *SOMETHING*. If this really was the same ol knicks the GM would have traded them for a broken down all star. This is different.
He brings a lot of toughness too. - ( New Window )
Yes. Fornier because he can't play defense. Randle because it seems his only play is to back into his defender, turn around and jump shoot, or pass the ball after the clock has run down. Seems Randle's lone positive is rebounding.
Also who cares what other NBA players are saying about Brunson, which has been pretty impressive, people on BBI tell me he is average, and the media said we reached.
Also who cares what other NBA players are saying about Brunson, which has been pretty impressive, people on BBI tell me he is average, and the media said we reached.
Yeah, and KD asking out has really made everyone looking to the trade market wait and see WTF happens before they do anything.
Also who cares what other NBA players are saying about Brunson, which has been pretty impressive, people on BBI tell me he is average, and the media said we reached.
Trade market is probably on hold right now until KD is traded
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Randle.
Yes. Fornier because he can't play defense. Randle because it seems his only play is to back into his defender, turn around and jump shoot, or pass the ball after the clock has run down. Seems Randle's lone positive is rebounding.
Not saying I would want to keep Randle. But, to,some extent, Randle’s backing into the defender and watching the clock run down will be affected to a great deal by the ball in Brunson’s hands. And, possibly by having a center who can hit a jump shot. Randle was pretty much the only option by default. Not anymore if he’s still,here.
Still need minutes for Obi and IQ. There's gotta be more moves coming.
Having a deep team is a good thing.
PG: Brunson*, IQ*, Rose, McBride
* can play off ball too
SG: Fournier, Grimes
SF: RJB, Reddish
PF: Randle, Obi
C: Mitch, Hartenstein, Simms
The roster is still very very crowded:
PG - Brunson, Rose, McBride
SG - Fournier, Quickley
SF - RJ, Reddish
PF - Randle, Obi
C - Hartenstein, Sims
TBD - Robinson, Taj
The roster is still very very crowded:
PG - Brunson, Rose, McBride
SG - Fournier, Quickley
SF - RJ, Reddish
PF - Randle, Obi
C - Hartenstein, Sims
TBD - Robinson, Taj
Grimes?
The roster is still very very crowded:
PG - Brunson, Rose, McBride
SG - Fournier, Quickley
SF - RJ, Reddish
PF - Randle, Obi
C - Hartenstein, Sims
TBD - Robinson, Taj
We posted the same a couple of minutes apart, but you missed Grimes who will be a rotation player. Reminds me of Danny Green coming out of UNC. Tenacious defender and pure shooter.
Jalen Brunson agrees to deal with New York Knicks | $110 million, four years
The New York Knicks wanted Brunson. They borderline stalked him during his playoff run with the Dallas Mavericks. And he’s the type of tough-nosed, scoring point guard the Knicks have been hoping to get. It didn’t work out with Kemba Walker last season. And there is something important for this front office about signing the guy they targeted at the top of free agency. Yes, this is a lot of money. No, Brunson doesn’t solve the rest of the Knicks’ problems. This deal won’t make a huge difference for the Knicks if they either 1) can’t get Julius Randle to play as he did two years ago or 2) move Randle off the books and bring in some depth/flexibility for him. I still think this is a good, solid signing.
Brunson has a lot of expectations moving forward. He’s a good shooter and playmaker; he’s not a great shooter and playmaker. He’s a very good scoring guard. Brunson can compete well enough defensively, especially in a system, but he has real physical limitations on that end. Still, the Knicks addressed a need in free agency with their top target. Now how do they maximize the rest of this roster to make this a great signing?
Grade: B
I think the Nets chose neither rather than both
Much of the scuttlebutt leading up to the opening of free agency had Hartenstein taking the midlevel exception with the Orlando Magic. Then out of nowhere, he ends up taking this two-year deal with the New York Knicks. Hartenstein had a brilliant campaign for the LA Clippers last season, and it earned him this money. He’s potentially a good backup, assuming Mitchell Robinson returns to the Knicks. They needed to replace Nerlens Noel, and they did it.
Grade: B
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moves coming. I do hope they still sign Mitch as well.
The roster is still very very crowded:
PG - Brunson, Rose, McBride
SG - Fournier, Quickley
SF - RJ, Reddish
PF - Randle, Obi
C - Hartenstein, Sims
TBD - Robinson, Taj
We posted the same a couple of minutes apart, but you missed Grimes who will be a rotation player. Reminds me of Danny Green coming out of UNC. Tenacious defender and pure shooter.
I realized that after I submitted, but no edit button.
I like the idea of having depth, but with this lineup, I see about 3 of these guys getting very very limited playing time. I feel like the Front office can help Thibs out with a consolidation move or two. Most of us have said that's what they were doing this offseason, but as it stands they just replaced Noel and Burkes with Brunson and Hartenstein.
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moves coming. I do hope they still sign Mitch as well.
The roster is still very very crowded:
PG - Brunson, Rose, McBride
SG - Fournier, Quickley
SF - RJ, Reddish
PF - Randle, Obi
C - Hartenstein, Sims
TBD - Robinson, Taj
Grimes?
I want Grimes starting.
I know Grimes will also get minutes at the 3, but there aren’t a ton there with RJ playing close to 35, and that leaves nothing for Reddish. I don’t see where Reddish fits, he probably needs to go too absent other moves.
4 - Randle (assuming not traded) 32, Obi 16
3 - RJ 36, Grimes 12
2 - Grimes 24, IQ 24
1 - Brunson 32, Rose 16
Fournier traded. Sims, Deuce, Reddish - 3rd string.
Not how I'd do it but what I am predicting based on the current state of play.
Then it shows him on defense and shows what he can do pretty well (cover movement shooters) and what he can't (cover bigger faster guys).
Link - ( New Window )
They do need a wing defender. But last year's handling of all the young players was a botch job.
Kinda wish they could get Reggie Bullock back.
4 - Randle (assuming not traded) 32, Obi 16
3 - RJ 36, Grimes 12
2 - Grimes 24, IQ 24
1 - Brunson 32, Rose 16
Fournier traded. Sims, Deuce, Reddish - 3rd string.
Not how I'd do it but what I am predicting based on the current state of play.
Smart post
I really hope they find a way to move Randle. It’s time to let Obi play.
I really hope they find a way to move Randle. It’s time to let Obi play.
They're paying Dinwiddie 20m per for PG. I'm not sure how they could have fit Brunson in their cap space. They're kind of screwed.
I really hope they find a way to move Randle. It’s time to let Obi play.
Cuban will co tinue to whine that the Knicms tampered and leak stuff that they never had a chance, but will continue to ignore that he could of had Brunson on a 4 year 55 million contract
I wouldn't bet on any of this as he's clearly a volatile head case but it's a possible outcome
to Charlotte for
Hayward (2 years, $30mm) + PJ Washington (1 year, $5mm)
Why for NYK:
-frees up Obi
-fully gives "keys to the car" to Brunson, RJB without the disruptive Randle ruining things as he did last year
Concern: while Reddish for Hayward is 1 for 1 swap of wings, he is the caliber of player that demands playing time and this invites difficult minutes allocation
Why for Charlotte:
-Randle gives them a front court scorer, something they don't have with Bridges career now in jeopardy
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Brunson is a unrestricted fa and can what he wants but it’s surprising that they aren’t more aggressive in their offer. He will be missed big time and they don’t really have any ways to replace him.
I really hope they find a way to move Randle. It’s time to let Obi play.
They're paying Dinwiddie 20m per for PG. I'm not sure how they could have fit Brunson in their cap space. They're kind of screwed.
they have (or had) bird rights on Brunson so they could have exceeded the cap to sign him. It's a matter of how much Cuban is willing to pay the luxury tax.
Im also sure he carried some resentment for how uninterested DAL was in locking him up last year.
If Rose is gonna "go for it", get Mitchell onboard. That's the move that, if it ever happens, we would look back during a parade (hopefully) and say to ourselves "THAT was the move that turned this franchise around".
Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn
Free agent center Mitchell Robinson has agreed on a new four-year, $60 million contract to stay with the New York Knicks, his agents Thad Foucher and Joe Smith of @Wassbasketball tell ESPN.
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And why exactly did we trade a 1st for Cam Reddish?
They do need a wing defender. But last year's handling of all the young players was a botch job.
Kinda wish they could get Reggie Bullock back.
I think they need more of a 3/4 wing (3&D) than a 2/3 wing, especially if Randle is traded. I know those guys aren’t exactly growing on trees.
Im also sure he carried some resentment for how uninterested DAL was in locking him up last year.
The player option he got is pretty valuable when you consider that it happens to fall right when everyone expects the cap to jump significantly. There's real value in him having the chance to get another contract with the increased cap before the age of 30
I bet there's incentives in there and maybe a team option for year 4. Every deal this FO has signed has looked worse when it was initially reported than it turned out to be once we got all the details.
i am guess its 4 for 50 and 10 in incentives
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of the Mitch deal. If its a full 4/60 i really dont like it.
I bet there's incentives in there and maybe a team option for year 4. Every deal this FO has signed has looked worse when it was initially reported than it turned out to be once we got all the details.
Agreed, def willing to wait to see the full details.
But I like Mitch. He's a real defensive anchor out there.
I agree. He's a flawed, injury-prone player who hasn't grown his game at all over the years. He's virtually identical to the player he came into the league as.
Was someone else really going to pay him that much??
Here are the 5 players above and below him in salary for the 2022-23 season if the hit is at 15 million (yes, I know structure might differ):
Above: Fultz, Markannen, Marcus Morris, Bertans, Malik Beasley
Below: Valunciunas, Rose, Huerter, Barton, Christian Wood
Grimes, Iq
Rj, Fournier
Randle,Toppin, Reddish
Mitch, Hartenstein, Sims
One thing i like, the youth outnumbers the old vets..Fournier and Randle stick out like a sore thumb..
Knicks are set up where they have salary to match and draft picks to make a big deal but this team needs shaving down
Put names to these situations. Who were we supposed to bring in? The big names haven't really changed teams in two years. What moves were left on the table where Rose was too patient? What rookie did we pass on that was such a sin?
These multiple threads over the last few days have just been filled with the same same shit from the past 20+ years. Nothing is happening over night. No one move is changing this franchise. There are steps and a plan, even if people don't see it. Others do and you cant just go from sea level to the top of Mount Kilimanjaro in one day. Give it a rest.
I want to print this up and hang it on my fucking refrigerator with a knicks heart magnet. Put this shit in the Knicks 2022-23 yearbook. Put it in the Knicks constitution.
I have to say I'm glad. I love Mitch. It'll be fun to see if he can elevate his game with a real PG. Hopefully he's practicing the pick and roll right now. Or even just the pick XD.
I have to say I'm glad. I love Mitch. It'll be fun to see if he can elevate his game with a real PG. Hopefully he's practicing the pick and roll right now. Or even just the pick XD.
At this point the roster's pretty packed set unless they make trades, which they really should.
Grimes, Iq
Rj, Fournier
Randle,Toppin, Reddish
Mitch, Hartenstein, Sims
The Knicks roster than Leon inherited:
Payton, Smith Jr., Ntilikina
RJ, Dotson, Ellington, Trier
Morris (soon traded for Harkless/picks), Bullock, Knox
Randle, Portis, Taj
Mitch, Wooten
Talent has improved, but at a high price. All in on the trade market at this point.
Reportedly the price to move Fournier was “extremely” high and more than 1 first. Now this was pre-draft but.. yeesh
He's not that bad a player, honestly. You just can't play him and Randle and a bad defensive PG at the same time. I'd like to move him mostly because I'd rather start Grimes and I think Thibs would too.
Randle, on the other hand, has to go so we can unlock Obi and play real team basketball on both sides of the ball.
Come on he hit 49 % ft last year and has been hurt every year he has been here. Plus does zero to stretch the floor.
He is ours and we are over the cap but it's a shitty overpay.
Mo Bamba got 2 years 21 million.
This is similar to the deals last year it's okay not to max out everyone.
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In comment 15745461 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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I think some like to bitch for the sake of bitching. The Knicks are a better team at 6:15 AM this morning then they were at 6:15 AM yesterday.
We have some of the best,loyal,intelligent well read folks on here...
Its sad that the good stuff gets derailed by absolute garbage
Id like to start a new forum which kicks folks out who do that
I've been accused of being a troll for simply disagreeing with folks...I have seen too many threads just ruined by frankly the lowest denominator....
Thoughts?
I’ve always felt BBI NYK threads are some of the best threads I’ve seen anywhere - idiots can always be ignored
This is 100% true. I browse many Knicks boards and this place houses the best and most informative Knicks talk by far. Sometimes it’s too painfully truthful here but more often than not, this is where it’s at. There’s a lot more oddly weird, blind homer Knicks talk out there.
If most here like a particular move it’s likely a good move. Same goes for the bad moves.
He's not that bad a player, honestly. You just can't play him and Randle and a bad defensive PG at the same time. I'd like to move him mostly because I'd rather start Grimes and I think Thibs would too.
Randle, on the other hand, has to go so we can unlock Obi and play real team basketball on both sides of the ball.
I’ve seen it reporter Fournier can’t be included in a S&T
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the larger deals that might go down. Or there might be a way to send him to Dallas by revising that deal to be a sign and trade. He might be a good fit there.
He's not that bad a player, honestly. You just can't play him and Randle and a bad defensive PG at the same time. I'd like to move him mostly because I'd rather start Grimes and I think Thibs would too.
Randle, on the other hand, has to go so we can unlock Obi and play real team basketball on both sides of the ball.
I’ve seen it reporter Fournier can’t be included in a S&T
Macri also mentioned in his newsletter that they dont have enough to do a descending contract, i think another move is coming, maybe reddish going somewhere..
LOL.
Haven't had a decent young PG in freaking years. Finally might have one and signed him to a contract of an avg PG.
I get the negativity about the Knicks. It's well earned, but I don't understand bitching about this.
I was a little kid when the Knicks traded for DeBusschere (too young to know at the time, but read about it later). Was he a superstar? No, but he filled an important role, helped the Knicks get better and eventually win a couple titles. I know times are different, but superstars don't grow on trees and it's still a team game. You need good players, not just a superstar.
Hopefully the superstar will come in the next yr or 2, one way or another (who knows, could already be on roster. Not out of question one of the young guys like Obi really blossoms, especially now that we have a legit PG).
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Might be a slight overpay, but nothing UFB wise.
Come on he hit 49 % ft last year and has been hurt every year he has been here. Plus does zero to stretch the floor.
He is ours and we are over the cap but it's a shitty overpay.
Mo Bamba got 2 years 21 million.
This is similar to the deals last year it's okay not to max out everyone.
Mitch is a much better player in basically every way except shooting. Mitch blows him out in pretty much every advanced stat, PER, Win shares, ws/48, BPM, VORP. Any stat you want to look at shows Mitch deserves to be paid a lot more than Bamba.
I like the direction of the team is headed currently. Lots of depth, so even if they do a big deal, you're still going to be able to field a team after.
No need to try to get off of Fournier's contract. It's not like he's a net negative player. They brought him in here for his shooting and he did that well last season.
Save the draft capital for a bigger move. Was watching KFTV last night and CP sort of insinuated that it was interesting that LaVine hadn't signed yet. I don't know if he has inside info, but the night before he mentioned Hartenstein so it's something to keep your eye on.
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In comment 15745649 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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Might be a slight overpay, but nothing UFB wise.
Come on he hit 49 % ft last year and has been hurt every year he has been here. Plus does zero to stretch the floor.
He is ours and we are over the cap but it's a shitty overpay.
Mo Bamba got 2 years 21 million.
This is similar to the deals last year it's okay not to max out everyone.
Mitch is a much better player in basically every way except shooting. Mitch blows him out in pretty much every advanced stat, PER, Win shares, ws/48, BPM, VORP. Any stat you want to look at shows Mitch deserves to be paid a lot more than Bamba.
How about FT % and 3 pt shooting?
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In comment 15745657 larryflower37 said:
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In comment 15745649 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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Might be a slight overpay, but nothing UFB wise.
Come on he hit 49 % ft last year and has been hurt every year he has been here. Plus does zero to stretch the floor.
He is ours and we are over the cap but it's a shitty overpay.
Mo Bamba got 2 years 21 million.
This is similar to the deals last year it's okay not to max out everyone.
Mitch is a much better player in basically every way except shooting. Mitch blows him out in pretty much every advanced stat, PER, Win shares, ws/48, BPM, VORP. Any stat you want to look at shows Mitch deserves to be paid a lot more than Bamba.
How about FT % and 3 pt shooting?
Those seemed to be the most important in today's NBA to stretch the floor and open space.
Yuck.
Does Brunson make the Knicks better the next few season yes. Miles better. Is he likely to become an albatross contract, very unlikely.
Same with Mitch. Most fans are frustrated because they thought he was a future star. Good news, they aren’t paying him like a future star. Because he isn’t one. But at that price, he is fine. When he plays, he is still a very valuable piece. But he’s always injured.
Well, they got the perfect complimentary piece to back him up. Another analytics freak type, like Mitch used to be. But different style of play. Great, great combo, and injuries are less of a concern now.
Yeah, still a superstar away. But all but a small handful of teams can say the same thing. Better than being lottery bound and knowing it in July, IMO.
More importantly, they’ve got all the flexibility in the world to move if someone shakes loose. Young talent, depth, movable larger contracts, and draft picks.
Yuck.
Brunson makes Mitch into a pick n roll king
Was this a rumor? I thought the Hayward trade talk was to clear up money to give Bridges a max or close to max extension (def not happening now). I don't really get why Charlotte would want Randle. He's not a good fit with Lamelo imo and there's no head case risk with Hayward.
I wouldn't bet on any of this as he's clearly a volatile head case but it's a possible outcome
I think he very likely does "bounce back."
The real tragedy is that Julius is a very good passer "for a big man." The big mistake was trying to make him a Point Forward and consistently run the offense through him.
Julius can easily be an 18/10 guy, with physical play in the paint. As far as I'm concerned, the biggest plus of Jalen's signing is that the ball will be taken out of Julius' hands.
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Charlotte for Hayward would be ideal - Knicks are light at the SF spot anyway behind RJ.
Was this a rumor? I thought the Hayward trade talk was to clear up money to give Bridges a max or close to max extension (def not happening now). I don't really get why Charlotte would want Randle. He's not a good fit with Lamelo imo and there's no head case risk with Hayward.
He replaces Bridges, who most likely is going to be oit of the league
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He will be Leon Roses Joakim Noah.
Yuck.
Brunson makes Mitch into a pick n roll king
That's assuming Mitch can stay healthy for longer than a few games...
I actually disagree that he's still undisciplined on defense. His fouling is so much better and it seemed to me that most of the fouls he had last year were when he was defending a really good post player (still a weakness, but there are fewer and fewer of these guys today) and covering up for bad defense from Randle or Fournier or Kemba. He cleans up a lot of junk around him.
His problem is that he's a zero on offense, aside from lobs and elite offensive rebounding. That's why Hartenstein will be a nice change of pace with his passing and shooting.
If it's straight 15M per, that puts him at about 12th in the league for centers. Would be overpay for sure, but not bad, really. I'll wait for the details before I decide if it's really a big overpay.
He replaces Bridges, who most likely is going to be oit of the league
They're not remotely similar players though and Randle has an extra two years on his deal + Hayward is pretty much their only good 3 point shooter. If I were a Hornets fan I'd be pretty unhappy if that deal happened
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Its not so much that I don't like him as a player, but he's very limited and gets hurt a lot. He can't be relied on and offensively, if its not a dunk, he brings nothing to the table. He's very long on defense and makes a difference, but he's also a bit undisciplined(I know he's gotten better), but he's not a high IQ player at all.
I actually disagree that he's still undisciplined on defense. His fouling is so much better and it seemed to me that most of the fouls he had last year were when he was defending a really good post player (still a weakness, but there are fewer and fewer of these guys today) and covering up for bad defense from Randle or Fournier or Kemba. He cleans up a lot of junk around him.
His problem is that he's a zero on offense, aside from lobs and elite offensive rebounding. That's why Hartenstein will be a nice change of pace with his passing and shooting.
If it's straight 15M per, that puts him at about 12th in the league for centers. Would be overpay for sure, but not bad, really. I'll wait for the details before I decide if it's really a big overpay.
Yea I think the biggest wart in Mitch's game is that he's not going to be able to be on the floor in close games at the end.
You saw it once last year, another team just fouling him and letting him shoot FTs. Unless he makes a leap there, he'll always be limited in 4th quarters.
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there remains a small probability that he bounces back from last year in a big way. Before his monster all-star season, he was really bad in NY, the fans hated him and wanted him gone and the Knicks brass had taken Toppin and were shopping Randle. He responded to that by quietly getting in really good shape, working his ass off in the summer and buying in to being a team player. We haven't heard a peep from him this offseason and a small part of me wonders if we could get a much better version of Randle (wouldn't expect 2020-21 ever again though).
I wouldn't bet on any of this as he's clearly a volatile head case but it's a possible outcome
I think he very likely does "bounce back."
The real tragedy is that Julius is a very good passer "for a big man." The big mistake was trying to make him a Point Forward and consistently run the offense through him.
Julius can easily be an 18/10 guy, with physical play in the paint. As far as I'm concerned, the biggest plus of Jalen's signing is that the ball will be taken out of Julius' hands.
after last season this might be the best aspect of all
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In comment 15745657 larryflower37 said:
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In comment 15745649 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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Might be a slight overpay, but nothing UFB wise.
Come on he hit 49 % ft last year and has been hurt every year he has been here. Plus does zero to stretch the floor.
He is ours and we are over the cap but it's a shitty overpay.
Mo Bamba got 2 years 21 million.
This is similar to the deals last year it's okay not to max out everyone.
Mitch is a much better player in basically every way except shooting. Mitch blows him out in pretty much every advanced stat, PER, Win shares, ws/48, BPM, VORP. Any stat you want to look at shows Mitch deserves to be paid a lot more than Bamba.
How about FT % and 3 pt shooting?
Are those not included in shooting?
Myles Turner's got 20m because he can do that. Horford and Vucevic the same.
I still want Mitch to be better on offense, but the contract is a tick above what the high level rim protectors who can't shoot are paid.
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of the Mitch deal. If its a full 4/60 i really dont like it.
i am guess its 4 for 50 and 10 in incentives
The money is meaningless because what the Knicks are doing is a five-part strategy:
1. Sign Brunson because this is the last time Knicks will be under the cap (if the rebuild is successful).If it's not successful, then Brunson says "bye-bye" after 3 seasons.
2. Resign all your own young players because ultimately the CBA makes it so that your own guys are really the best deal.
3. Any future acquistions will be through sign and trades (or exceptions like MLE).
4. Accumulate draft capital. This allows you to keep getting young guys if you do indeed become a top team. Also facilitates sign and trades.
5. Keep all guys who will be able to play minutes now or in the future. For example, we have all seen Cam is not really NBA worthy right now. But you keep him unless you feel he just has no shot.
This guy Rose sucks,way over his head
That's also the REAL reason a lot of max players don't want to come here. The max in NY is not really the max elsewhere.
So, Knicks needed to give Mitch that few extra million
That's also the REAL reason a lot of max players don't want to come here. The max in NY is not really the max elsewhere.
So, Knicks needed to give Mitch that few extra million
I think the tax thing gets completely overplayed by fans. It doesn’t stop the Lakers from signing anyone they want. ThecNets didn’t have an issue signing big time stars. Do we have any examples of players that decided to go elsewhere because of the state tax? I think it has much more to do with the fact that the Knicks have sucked and teams like the Heat have been much better than it has to do with a tax. If the Knicks are good, players would come.
Could be possible. If the Bulls are serious then they would probably have to include Lavine. I doubt a deal built around Ayo,Patrick Williams and some firsts (already traded 2025 first) is getting it done.
Darren Wolfson
@DWolfsonKSTP
I know I’m on record saying it’s hard to see Gobert actually landing here. But the #Timberwolves interest in pairing him with KAT continues to be very real. Former Utah ass’t Dell Demps now in Wolves front office has the book on him.
Could be possible. If the Bulls are serious then they would probably have to include Lavine. I doubt a deal built around Ayo,Patrick Williams and some firsts (already traded 2025 first) is getting it done.
I can't imagine KD would be happy going to Chicago if Lavine wasn't there. His top two choices were the two teams that finished #1 in the east and west last year. Tells me he's no longer interested in proving he can win a title on his own. I know the Nets will deal him for the best package but if I were a team he didn't want to go to, I don't think I'd go all in for him. Not only is he going to be 34 and gets hurt a lot but if he doesn't want to be there it'll get ugly... again.
Related to the other discussion, looks like Lavine's deal is done
Shams Charania
@ShamsCharania
·
1m
NBA All-Star Zach LaVine has agreed to a five-year, $215.2 million maximum contract to return to the Chicago Bulls, with a player option in Year 5, Klutch Sports CEO Rich Paul told
@TheAthletic
@Stadium
.
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55 million in NYC is just not the same as 55 million in Florida so Knicks always have to pay a few extra million per year.
That's also the REAL reason a lot of max players don't want to come here. The max in NY is not really the max elsewhere.
So, Knicks needed to give Mitch that few extra million
I think the tax thing gets completely overplayed by fans. It doesn’t stop the Lakers from signing anyone they want. ThecNets didn’t have an issue signing big time stars. Do we have any examples of players that decided to go elsewhere because of the state tax? I think it has much more to do with the fact that the Knicks have sucked and teams like the Heat have been much better than it has to do with a tax. If the Knicks are good, players would come.
CA is the one exception for two reasons:
1. It's weather is unique. Same mild temperature all year long along the coastal shelf. That appeals to young guys more than NYC's cultural attractions (museums, opera, theater etc ).
2. CA real estate in LA and Bay Area is still golden in a way that NYC is not any more. You make back all the tax money and more with high end real estate. Can't really do that in NYC any more unless you buy in a "transition" neighborhood at the right time. But these guys are not living in transition neighborhoods
Shams Charania
@ShamsCharania
·
1m
NBA All-Star Zach LaVine has agreed to a five-year, $215.2 million maximum contract to return to the Chicago Bulls, with a player option in Year 5, Klutch Sports CEO Rich Paul told
@TheAthletic
@Stadium
.
Probably took this long because Rich Paul was waiting to see if he could get Chicago to take Westbrook in a sign and trade so he could get LaVine on the Lakers with the rest of his clients…
This guy Rose sucks,way over his head
Foolish post.
Darren Wolfson
@DWolfsonKSTP
I know I’m on record saying it’s hard to see Gobert actually landing here. But the #Timberwolves interest in pairing him with KAT continues to be very real. Former Utah ass’t Dell Demps now in Wolves front office has the book on him.
Mitchell wants Gobert gone it's what they get in return that matters if its picks and young players that don't help now they are laying the foundation for Mitchell to ask out.
That deal up there is crazy!
I think they are trying to get Mitchell to ask out to save face with the fan base.
Related to the other discussion, looks like Lavine's deal is done
If they do trade Gobert, there really isn’t any reason to hold on to Mitchell. The Royce O’Neal trade seems to signal they are looking to rebuild, so why keep Mitchell while you’re trying to do that? Even being optimistic you’d be at least 2-3 years away from being decent again, and at that point Mitchell’s contract is almost up and he probably leaves.
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In comment 15745724 Vanzetti said:
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55 million in NYC is just not the same as 55 million in Florida so Knicks always have to pay a few extra million per year.
That's also the REAL reason a lot of max players don't want to come here. The max in NY is not really the max elsewhere.
So, Knicks needed to give Mitch that few extra million
I think the tax thing gets completely overplayed by fans. It doesn’t stop the Lakers from signing anyone they want. ThecNets didn’t have an issue signing big time stars. Do we have any examples of players that decided to go elsewhere because of the state tax? I think it has much more to do with the fact that the Knicks have sucked and teams like the Heat have been much better than it has to do with a tax. If the Knicks are good, players would come.
CA is the one exception for two reasons:
1. It's weather is unique. Same mild temperature all year long along the coastal shelf. That appeals to young guys more than NYC's cultural attractions (museums, opera, theater etc ).
2. CA real estate in LA and Bay Area is still golden in a way that NYC is not any more. You make back all the tax money and more with high end real estate. Can't really do that in NYC any more unless you buy in a "transition" neighborhood at the right time. But these guys are not living in transition neighborhoods
How many big name players have place in NYC and are working out there right now?
It's on Instagram every day.
If you sign a max deal I am not sure the state tax out ways the endorsements and such.
Look at Mitchell he lives in NY the whole off-season.
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I'm not even sure Utah is a non play-in team in the west.
Related to the other discussion, looks like Lavine's deal is done
If they do trade Gobert, there really isn’t any reason to hold on to Mitchell. The Royce O’Neal trade seems to signal they are looking to rebuild, so why keep Mitchell while you’re trying to do that? Even being optimistic you’d be at least 2-3 years away from being decent again, and at that point Mitchell’s contract is almost up and he probably leaves.
I agree but there is a rif between Gobert and Mitchell.
This could be to satisfy Mitchell.
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Its not so much that I don't like him as a player, but he's very limited and gets hurt a lot. He can't be relied on and offensively, if its not a dunk, he brings nothing to the table. He's very long on defense and makes a difference, but he's also a bit undisciplined(I know he's gotten better), but he's not a high IQ player at all.
I actually disagree that he's still undisciplined on defense. His fouling is so much better and it seemed to me that most of the fouls he had last year were when he was defending a really good post player (still a weakness, but there are fewer and fewer of these guys today) and covering up for bad defense from Randle or Fournier or Kemba. He cleans up a lot of junk around him.
His problem is that he's a zero on offense, aside from lobs and elite offensive rebounding. That's why Hartenstein will be a nice change of pace with his passing and shooting.
If it's straight 15M per, that puts him at about 12th in the league for centers. Would be overpay for sure, but not bad, really. I'll wait for the details before I decide if it's really a big overpay.
You are correct that the fouls have come down a little, but he's still an undisciplined defender. His defense is far from perfect and at 4/60, his complete lack of offensive game makes this an overpay, IMO. Can he turn into Tyson Chandler? I guess it's possible and it's not asking too much. Like someone earlier said though, 3/45 with a team option is possible.
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In comment 15745743 Strahan91 said:
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I'm not even sure Utah is a non play-in team in the west.
Related to the other discussion, looks like Lavine's deal is done
If they do trade Gobert, there really isn’t any reason to hold on to Mitchell. The Royce O’Neal trade seems to signal they are looking to rebuild, so why keep Mitchell while you’re trying to do that? Even being optimistic you’d be at least 2-3 years away from being decent again, and at that point Mitchell’s contract is almost up and he probably leaves.
I agree but there is a rif between Gobert and Mitchell.
This could be to satisfy Mitchell.
Then they wouldnt of trade Oneal for nothing and letting paschal walk
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In comment 15745752 Mike in NJ said:
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In comment 15745743 Strahan91 said:
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I'm not even sure Utah is a non play-in team in the west.
Related to the other discussion, looks like Lavine's deal is done
If they do trade Gobert, there really isn’t any reason to hold on to Mitchell. The Royce O’Neal trade seems to signal they are looking to rebuild, so why keep Mitchell while you’re trying to do that? Even being optimistic you’d be at least 2-3 years away from being decent again, and at that point Mitchell’s contract is almost up and he probably leaves.
I agree but there is a rif between Gobert and Mitchell.
This could be to satisfy Mitchell.
Then they wouldnt of trade Oneal for nothing and letting paschal walk
Yep
So what are they doing?
Conley would be the other shoe to drop since they just paid him too.
We all know Ainge is going to want the house and the farm for Mitchell.
He has been known to keep leaks to a minimum maybe he is slow rolling the rebuild to get to Mitchell last.
He says even if Fournier is here he doesnt expect him to start, whether its Grimes at the 2 or Rj back to the 2
He says even if Fournier is here he doesnt expect him to start, whether its Grimes at the 2 or Rj back to the 2
Grimes seems like the right choice from a defensive standpoint, let's hope Thibs agrees because he does what he wants when it comes to lineups
He has been injured for 3 years on and off that's the draw back to that deal
He says even if Fournier is here he doesnt expect him to start, whether its Grimes at the 2 or Rj back to the 2
Excellent news. And trade Randle too. And waive Gibson.
I am more excited about Hartenstein than Mitch I could see them splitting minutes by mid season. The spacing he is going to provide will help Brunson and RJ big time
Knicks aren't building anything.They basically scapegoated a few players and replaced them.Is it really this hard to figure out?,some of them do play the same position on the court.
If you want to follow guys with this type of finger pointing mentality,be my guest.We'll see how far they get.
Remember when Ramon Sessions and Nick Batum were the saviors?
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makes perfect sense, he had to tell any superstar we will sign you for a gazillion dollars and you HAVE to take it. That's how negotiations go, right? You're a schmuck. You keep building your team until you hit paydirt. They needed a competent PG and got one. They needed a more athletic, younger, offensive center- and got one! That's called building your team.
Knicks aren't building anything.They basically scapegoated a few players and replaced them.Is it really this hard to figure out?,some of them do play the same position on the court.
If you want to follow guys with this type of finger pointing mentality,be my guest.We'll see how far they get.
Huh?? They scapegoated who? Burks, Noel and Walker? Since those are players gone. Are you saying that Noel and Walker had productive years last year? ALso i havent really heard any finger pointing by the team. Fans say those guys had shit years along with Fournier and Randle, which they did all have shit years.
They need shooting from Fournier and I doubt Thibs trusts Grimes just yet. I hope they wait on Randle to see if they can up his value which I think Rose does, one thing he has is patience.
This is a solid team with potential if everyone plays to their capabilities.
Probably 8th to 10th team in the east.
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makes perfect sense, he had to tell any superstar we will sign you for a gazillion dollars and you HAVE to take it. That's how negotiations go, right? You're a schmuck. You keep building your team until you hit paydirt. They needed a competent PG and got one. They needed a more athletic, younger, offensive center- and got one! That's called building your team.
Knicks aren't building anything.They basically scapegoated a few players and replaced them.Is it really this hard to figure out?,some of them do play the same position on the court.
If you want to follow guys with this type of finger pointing mentality,be my guest.We'll see how far they get.
What exactly did you want the Knicks to do?
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In comment 15745779 Dave on the UWS said:
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makes perfect sense, he had to tell any superstar we will sign you for a gazillion dollars and you HAVE to take it. That's how negotiations go, right? You're a schmuck. You keep building your team until you hit paydirt. They needed a competent PG and got one. They needed a more athletic, younger, offensive center- and got one! That's called building your team.
Knicks aren't building anything.They basically scapegoated a few players and replaced them.Is it really this hard to figure out?,some of them do play the same position on the court.
If you want to follow guys with this type of finger pointing mentality,be my guest.We'll see how far they get.
Huh?? They scapegoated who? Burks, Noel and Walker? Since those are players gone. Are you saying that Noel and Walker had productive years last year? ALso i havent really heard any finger pointing by the team. Fans say those guys had shit years along with Fournier and Randle, which they did all have shit years.
Don't take the bait. The guy is one of those fans that knows a handful of household name players and anything short of that fuels his criticism.
Mike Vorkunov
@MikeVorkunov
· 4m
The NBA is changing its take foul rule for Las Vegas Sumer League, and for its summer leagues in California and SLC. Now the penalty for a take foul is a free throw and the ball to the team that gets fouled.
Mike Vorkunov
@MikeVorkunov
· 4m
The NBA is changing its take foul rule for Las Vegas Sumer League, and for its summer leagues in California and SLC. Now the penalty for a take foul is a free throw and the ball to the team that gets fouled.
How does this work at the end of the game?
@wojespn
The Indiana Pacers are trading guard Malcolm Brogdon to the Boston Celtics, sources tell ESPN.
@wojespn
The Indiana Pacers are trading guard Malcolm Brogdon to the Boston Celtics, sources tell ESPN.
I would guess Brown goes to the 4? Horford off the bench?
The Knicks can't afford that for a part time player. We already do that with Rose.
might just be me, but this image didnt show up.
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might just be me, but this image didnt show up.
Ya tried to post a Twitter page claiming jazz are open for business in regards to Mitchell. Prolly best it didn’t come through cause no one else is reporting it yet
Link - ( New Window )
Gallo and Brogdon can get hot and chance a game.
It's going to make them tough to beat both for really nothing.
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In comment 15745681 LawrenceTaylor56 said:
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He will be Leon Roses Joakim Noah.
Yuck.
Brunson makes Mitch into a pick n roll king
That's assuming Mitch can stay healthy for longer than a few games...
Dude Robinson played 72 fucking games last year.
Some of you are just brutal.
Ghost trolls the Knicks threads constantly. And if he is an actual Knicks fan he or she still acts like a troll. Not worth responding. Every move is the worst and the Knicks suck and always will suck. Fresh takes daily from ghost.
COME ON HOME SPIDA...
@wojespn
·
1m
The Timberwolves are sending Malik Beasley, Patrick Beverley, Walker Kessler, Jarred Vanderbilt and multiple first-round picks for Gobert, sources tell ESPN.
@wojespn
·
1m
The Timberwolves are sending Malik Beasley, Patrick Beverley, Walker Kessler, Jarred Vanderbilt and multiple first-round picks for Gobert, sources tell ESPN.
Mitchell has to be next no way he will want to play for a tanking team.
It may already be in the works.
Well you give up the farm for a team of Mitchell, Brunson and RJ.
3 unprotected, 1 top 5 protected and a pick swap
Man i hope Mitchell being moved becomes a thing, he cant force his way here (or miami) due to the contract but we would have to have a good shot. Based on these moves im not sure Ainge will have interest in Herro or RJ, who im guessing people will start building trades around. Both of them are about to get big deals in the next year or so. My guess he is going to want more cost controlled guys (rookies, second year, etc..) and a boatload of picks. How many picks can we realistically offer over the next 5 years? Like by NBA rules? Basically we could offer like 5 firsts in a row right, since we have so many extra firsts.
They obviously didn’t pay their cable bill during the Jazz last 2 playoff series in which Gobert was made a complete nonentity by opponents going small.
Man i hope Mitchell being moved becomes a thing, he cant force his way here (or miami) due to the contract but we would have to have a good shot. Based on these moves im not sure Ainge will have interest in Herro or RJ, who im guessing people will start building trades around. Both of them are about to get big deals in the next year or so. My guess he is going to want more cost controlled guys (rookies, second year, etc..) and a boatload of picks. How many picks can we realistically offer over the next 5 years? Like by NBA rules? Basically we could offer like 5 firsts in a row right, since we have so many extra firsts.
I tried to figure it out but it's quite complicated with all of the protections. I believe though they can trade 7 at least, maybe 8.
Man i hope Mitchell being moved becomes a thing, he cant force his way here (or miami) due to the contract but we would have to have a good shot. Based on these moves im not sure Ainge will have interest in Herro or RJ, who im guessing people will start building trades around. Both of them are about to get big deals in the next year or so. My guess he is going to want more cost controlled guys (rookies, second year, etc..) and a boatload of picks. How many picks can we realistically offer over the next 5 years? Like by NBA rules? Basically we could offer like 5 firsts in a row right, since we have so many extra firsts.
the 3 protected 23 picks, swap knicks 23, unprotected 24, 25 milwaukee, swap 25, unprotected 26, swap 27
I’m fine either way but I’d like to unclog the roster some before training camp. Still too many bodies here it would seem plus the whole obi and randle thing.
I'm sure they would be but no reputable reporter has reported that he's actually available (yet). If Herro was on the Knicks he'd have very little trade value but since he's not and he's on the Heat apparently he's the second coming
Agreed, thats an insane amount to give up for a great role player who has 4-170 left on his contract.
That said if your UTA that isnt that great an offer, yeah 5 straight firsts would be nice but thats really it. Nobody thinks IQ or Grimes have like borderline all star upside. But im not sure what other teams will be able to offer.
Obi, Quick, Grimes and 5 1sts(the 3 we just got plus 2 of our own unprotected). Do you do it? I do.
Like I said,what exactly do you add to this site.Or what do you think you add.
Because at this point, I breeze right past most of your posts
Obi, Quick, Grimes and 5 1sts(the 3 we just got plus 2 of our own unprotected). Do you do it? I do.
Easily
@wojespn
·
53s
The Jazz gathered six first-round picks in the past 24 hours, including 7-footer Walker Kessler, the 22nd overall pick in the 2022 Draft. The Jazz plan to retool the roster around All-Star G Donovan Mitchell.
Obi, Quick, Grimes and 5 1sts(the 3 we just got plus 2 of our own unprotected). Do you do it? I do.
I might be the only one, but I’m not attached to RJ Barrett in a way that I wouldn’t move him for a top tier talent.
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Ghost trolls the Knicks threads constantly. And if he is an actual Knicks fan he or she still acts like a troll. Not worth responding. Every move is the worst and the Knicks suck and always will suck. Fresh takes daily from ghost.
Like I said,what exactly do you add to this site.Or what do you think you add.
Because at this point, I breeze right past most of your posts
You still havent answered some of us who asked you what you wanted the Knicks to do
Obi, Quick, Grimes and 5 1sts(the 3 we just got plus 2 of our own unprotected). Do you do it? I do.
Don't think that'll do it. I bet the Knicks would have to part with at least 3 of their own picks unprotected in addition to some (maybe all) of the protected ones we have
Tony Jones
@Tjonesonthenba
League sources: For now, there are no plans by the Utah Jazz to trade star guard Donovan Mitchell. The Jazz are committed to building around him. The Jazz are not done in trade talks. Expect more activity
I think it’s going to happen.
Tony Jones
@Tjonesonthenba
League sources: For now, there are no plans by the Utah Jazz to trade star guard Donovan Mitchell. The Jazz are committed to building around him. The Jazz are not done in trade talks. Expect more activity
Why would Mitchell stick around for a rebuild?
Lakers too.
I think it’s going to happen.
I'm cautiously optimistic as well. He really wanted Johnny Bryant to get the Utah HC job apparently. Also has a close relationship with Leon so the Knicks should at the very least have an idea of what he's thinking (unlike with KD)
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For a letdown but I can’t help but think we’re gonna trade for Mitchell. Brunson came here for a number of reasons I’m sure, one of them being team stability and direction. The knicks are poised to make the BIG move and Brunson was not that big move, but he allows the knicks to add that big piece.
I think it’s going to happen.
I'm cautiously optimistic as well. He really wanted Johnny Bryant to get the Utah HC job apparently. Also has a close relationship with Leon so the Knicks should at the very least have an idea of what he's thinking (unlike with KD)
Just make sure we keep an additional 2nd round pick after the trade to pay the tampering penalty.
Obi, Quick, Grimes and 5 1sts(the 3 we just got plus 2 of our own unprotected). Do you do it? I do.
a team of Brunson, Mitchell, Barrett, Randle, Mitch, and Fournier doesn't go far in my mind.
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What would you guys give up for DMitch?
Obi, Quick, Grimes and 5 1sts(the 3 we just got plus 2 of our own unprotected). Do you do it? I do.
a team of Brunson, Mitchell, Barrett, Randle, Mitch, and Fournier doesn't go far in my mind.
In the East next year I think it does. They’d also have to give one of Rose or Fournier to match salaries. And the ceiling is high if Brunson and RJ have another level to their game
Yeah, and that's just one concern.
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What would you guys give up for DMitch?
Obi, Quick, Grimes and 5 1sts(the 3 we just got plus 2 of our own unprotected). Do you do it? I do.
a team of Brunson, Mitchell, Barrett, Randle, Mitch, and Fournier doesn't go far in my mind.
This is how i feel. If you have to give up Obi, Quickley, Grimes plus tons of unprotected picks and you are left with Brunson/Mitchell/RJ/Randle/Mitch how far is that getting you in the eastern conference with Boston, Milwaukee, Miami etc still around ?
I guess i am in the minority but i dont give up all those assets for Mitchell .
Role players and a center who’s easily negated by small ball isn’t a particularly good supporting cast come postseason. It’s not wrong to be hesitant regarding Mitchell, but the former point should be the reason why, not the latter.
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I still can't get passed moving all your tradeable assets for a guy who couldn't do it with arguably a better supporting cast. A move will happen but it needs to makes sense.
Role players and a center who’s easily negated by small ball isn’t a particularly good supporting cast come postseason. It’s not wrong to be hesitant regarding Mitchell, but the former point should be the reason why, not the latter.
It is more than just Mitchell though. It was other names that came up over the last couple of years like Beal. People wanted to give up our whole team for him.
Windy called this yesterday and today said hed be shocked if Mitchell doesnt want out, also said GMs are gearing up to get Mitchell
Mitchell was a really good defender in college. I don't know why he's struggled so much with it in the NBA but I'd feel pretty good about Thibs making him into a solid defensive player. He has tools, it's not like Brunson who's actually relatively solid defensively but his size limits him against certain players and schemes.
Mitchell is the same height as Brunson.
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He has tools, it's not like Brunson who's actually relatively solid defensively but his size limits him against certain players and schemes.
Mitchell is the same height as Brunson.
Mitchell has a 6'10 wingspan, Brunson has a 6'3 wingspan. Huge difference. He's also a much better athlete
IDK. This is a guy who averaged 32/5/5 over 20 straight playoff games while shooting 45/44/86. And he’ll be 26 years old at the beginning of next season.
The problem with the Gobert package is that it was for Gobert.
@andyblarsen
·
3m
FWIW: I'm hearing some pushback regarding the idea that the Jazz are definitely keeping Donovan Mitchell moving forward.
Sense is that the Jazz are keeping their options open here: they could retool around Mitchell, or trade him for a massive haul to jumpstart a rebuild
@andyblarsen
·
3m
FWIW: I'm hearing some pushback regarding the idea that the Jazz are definitely keeping Donovan Mitchell moving forward.
Sense is that the Jazz are keeping their options open here: they could retool around Mitchell, or trade him for a massive haul to jumpstart a rebuild
he is gone they are not going to announce it, I just hope the deal to Brunson doesn't stop us from making the move.
I’m still stunned at that package. They could’ve gotten Dejounte Murray for less who made more sense for their team and fits age-wise with Towns and Edwards.
@andyblarsen
·
3m
FWIW: I'm hearing some pushback regarding the idea that the Jazz are definitely keeping Donovan Mitchell moving forward.
Sense is that the Jazz are keeping their options open here: they could retool around Mitchell, or trade him for a massive haul to jumpstart a rebuild
He follow that up with “ In particular, watch Miami. Obviously, Kevin Durant is their No. 1 target, but if that doesn't work out, they have been and will continue to be aggressive re: Mitchell.”
Why is Miami being linked to Mitchell so much more than the Knicks? They can’t put together the package we can
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Andy Larsen
@andyblarsen
·
3m
FWIW: I'm hearing some pushback regarding the idea that the Jazz are definitely keeping Donovan Mitchell moving forward.
Sense is that the Jazz are keeping their options open here: they could retool around Mitchell, or trade him for a massive haul to jumpstart a rebuild
He follow that up with “ In particular, watch Miami. Obviously, Kevin Durant is their No. 1 target, but if that doesn't work out, they have been and will continue to be aggressive re: Mitchell.”
Why is Miami being linked to Mitchell so much more than the Knicks? They can’t put together the package we can
Everybody is linked to miami, no mention of how they have no salary to send out and they dont control their draft picks...
Meanwhile Knicks have nothing and if they do make a move, they gave up to much
Gobert's 'defensive prowess' has always made me chuckle. I remember watching a 76ers Jazz game a year or so ago & Embiid putting up 50 on Rudy. Not saying Gobert sucks @ defense, but a tad overrated IMO.
Mitch-Randle-RJ-Grimes-Brunson - the first 5
Hartenstein-Obi-IQ-Rose - the other 4 of the 9-man rotation
That's a respectable 9-man rotation if Randle is being a team player. Big if, I know.
Depth is Sims-Reddish-Deuce plus a couple of rookie guys. I'm assuming Fournier gets traded.
you can only trade picks that go out 7 years - and you can't trade back to back picks. So the max offer when it comes to your own picks is typicaly 4 picks and 3 swaps. Of course you can add to that with other picks you've acquired.
This is what sometimes causes me to laugh @ these stars wanting to go to other good teams: in order for that team to obtain you, they're going to give up a haul that makes them less desirable when you step back.
Gobert is incredibly overrated.
If true this is bizarre.
If they are keeping Russell - where’s the fit with Russell and Edwards?
2023 1st 2025 1st 2027 1st - all unprotected
Pistons 1st bucks 1st wizards 1st
He is bird rights, we can go over the cap to max RJ
2023 1st 2025 1st 2027 1st - all unprotected
Pistons 1st bucks 1st wizards 1st
I'd do this but I expect it would take more young players, i.e., Quick and/or Grimes as well. Maybe even RJ. I don't want to sell the entire farm for Mitchell.
You can always sign your own draft picks. No matter how much you are over the cap.
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Obi / cam / Fournier
2023 1st 2025 1st 2027 1st - all unprotected
Pistons 1st bucks 1st wizards 1st
I'd do this but I expect it would take more young players, i.e., Quick and/or Grimes as well. Maybe even RJ. I don't want to sell the entire farm for Mitchell.
Non of the young players we have will grow up to be Mitchell he is 25 and has average 26, 5 and 4 for the last 2 years and has step up in the playoffs multiple times.
If you say Brunson is still improving what is Mitchell doing they are the same age almost to the month.
You get a all-star on the cusp of their prime locked up for 4 years.
You go all in and work out how to keep RJ. Plus he is making 32 million a year for the next 4.
I heard that was around middle of the road for guards
Probably not. But at a certain point, a team has to make its own luck and find a Steph Curry at 7 or a Donovan Mitchell at 13. Or land a Zion Williamson in free agency.
I want to see Obi playing 30 to 35 a night..
I want Brunson running the team withiut Randle hijacking the offense..
I want see Rj with added pressure and see how he plays..
I want to see Grimes at the starting 2..
and then make a decision on a trade.
This is why i want Randle traded so badly. RJ will never reach his full potential with Randle around hogging the ball and pounding it for 23 seconds of the shot clock while having RJ camp at the 3 point line most of the game.
This is aside from Obi going back to being a 15 minute player at max. I just cant believe this front office doesnt realize how badly they need to get rid of Randle so the young nucleus can grow together
Via Begley
Yes, the plan is to make a big move. You can have a spirited argument that Donovan Mitchell is that guy. I think he's a #2 guy on a championship contender, same as a Bradley Beal.
They should aim higher than just 'best available at thw moment' because they will only get one shot at it.
They basically cost the same(salary) and are under control for 4 more years.
They know you can't run with a 6' 1 backcourt.
Mitchell would have cost you more but is a much better player but they can't admit that and probably say they didn't know Mitchell would shake free so soon.
Yes, the plan is to make a big move. You can have a spirited argument that Donovan Mitchell is that guy. I think he's a #2 guy on a championship contender, same as a Bradley Beal.
They should aim higher than just 'best available at thw moment' because they will only get one shot at it.
Ok that's fine I am up in the air on Mitchell being a superstar however the chips don't last forever. What player is shaking loose that satisfies your #1 requirement? Prime LeBron? Giannis? When is that type of guy shaking loose? Nobody even as good as Mitchell in their prime has shook loose since the Summer of Durant 3 years ago. Maybe we got a home run at like #15 with this improved scouting dept. But at some point in the next 2 or 3 years our draft capital takes a big hit. I'm fine spending it on an elite #2 option like Mitchell.
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Of what you cash in all your chips for.
Yes, the plan is to make a big move. You can have a spirited argument that Donovan Mitchell is that guy. I think he's a #2 guy on a championship contender, same as a Bradley Beal.
They should aim higher than just 'best available at thw moment' because they will only get one shot at it.
Ok that's fine I am up in the air on Mitchell being a superstar however the chips don't last forever. What player is shaking loose that satisfies your #1 requirement? Prime LeBron? Giannis? When is that type of guy shaking loose? Nobody even as good as Mitchell in their prime has shook loose since the Summer of Durant 3 years ago. Maybe we got a home run at like #15 with this improved scouting dept. But at some point in the next 2 or 3 years our draft capital takes a big hit. I'm fine spending it on an elite #2 option like Mitchell.
I think everyone forgets Mitchell's 38 playoff average over 10 games a couple years ago when he carried them.
Mitchell has been big in the big games except this last playoffs
Lol.
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That jazz would take Randle but would want quickly to take him on and would not include Mitchell coming here. Knicks said no
Lol.
Sadly there are some on this board that would do that trade they hate Randle so much.
Really sad that Randle has negative trade value that Knicks would have to give up assets just to get rid of him. That being said, I am not trading Quickley just to dump him.
I would attach one of those protected picks they got last week if that is what it takes
Then it turned out that teams figured out how to defense the offense when it was run through him and suddenly he was a problem. It was actually Thibs offense that was the problem. But it's hard to change mid season.
Now, they can implement an offense run through Brunson and Julius can be a 15/10 guy and a positive contributor.
Del, does that work in this day and age of these multi-tens of $$millions a year athletes? That is aside from whatever ego/personality construct issues Randle may have. Maybe it's not aside.
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management has some sense of what was bugging him last year, doesn't think it will continue this year, and has had a talk with Randle about being less ball-dominant. I agree with those who've said don't sell low on him.
Del, does that work in this day and age of these multi-tens of $$millions a year athletes? That is aside from whatever ego/personality construct issues Randle may have. Maybe it's not aside.
As I said, it's a big if. I don't know, just hoping (assuming Randle is not traded).
Here's Derek Harper on Brunson in the Post
Harper on Brunson - ( New Window )
2. If Randle has negative value now(I'm not so sure he does), then he will have negative value after the season starts. It's better business to give Randle a chance this season with an improved roster. He will either improve his trade value or he will fit on this roster and help us win games.
3. I like Obi, I really do. I didn't care about how old he was when we drafted him. I didn't care about some of his offensive limitations when we drafted him. I still think he has a lot of young Amare Stoudemire(the 2022 version when everyone shoots 3's) in his game. I think he can be good, but we don't really know if last year was for real. We trade Randle and Obi isn't ready for that role, we have problems.
4. We can't keep signing guys and then trading them for negative value the following year. It's just not how any successful team runs. We've been doing this for years. What we need to do is provide a system and culture that is conducive to winning. When you win, guys are more desirable to other teams.
Gol dang! I know this was alluded to by other poster(s) above, but seeing it all in one para is crazy. Has there ever, ever been a set-up like this in any sport to lure a FA or trade?
Marbury was probably ahead of his time. I still haven't seen a PG as strong as he was going up against centers and being able to finish. The problem was he was primarily a scorer and didn't really make those around him better like PGs were expected to. I think he would have been awesome in today's NBA.
Kevin Durant
@KDTrey5
The ones who were locked in that gym with me know what it is, they know what I’m about. If u haven’t been in there with me, ask around
Not sure there are enough draft picks to go around to satisfy Utah and Brooklyn, and Ayton is just not on the level of Mitchell, and nowhere near KD. Doesn’t pass the smell test for me, but we’ll see.
Not sure there are enough draft picks to go around to satisfy Utah and Brooklyn, and Ayton is just not on the level of Mitchell, and nowhere near KD. Doesn’t pass the smell test for me, but we’ll see.
Why would Utah want to spend a ton of money on Ayton when they no longer have Mitchell around? What would be the point?
Not sure there are enough draft picks to go around to satisfy Utah and Brooklyn, and Ayton is just not on the level of Mitchell, and nowhere near KD. Doesn’t pass the smell test for me, but we’ll see.
Doesnt work, unless simmons in deal
I mean at some point you gotta take a stab and go for it
There is something to be said for getting mitchell and being a 3-6 seed for next several years and winning some playoff series.
For starters in 3-4 years. Mitchell and Brunson are 28-29 and rj 24-25. Your window stays open for longer than that and at that point you would have turned the lolknicks narrative that we are crap and have no consistency or continuity. Players would actually see a team that’s in the hunt and see the energy of a consistent team and I think that’s when you get to make your next move to add another player to the roster.
But as it stands currently what stars are we really gonna wait on. All of them are re upping with there teams for super maxs
On another note, whenever I think of Harper i think of that night in '94 vs Houston. I was yelling at the TV for Harper to shoot more and Starks less!
Harper was hot, but was too unselfish. Could've been different if he shot 5-7 more times and Starks 5-7 less.
I mean at some point you gotta take a stab and go for it
There is something to be said for getting mitchell and being a 3-6 seed for next several years and winning some playoff series.
For starters in 3-4 years. Mitchell and Brunson are 28-29 and rj 24-25. Your window stays open for longer than that and at that point you would have turned the lolknicks narrative that we are crap and have no consistency or continuity. Players would actually see a team that’s in the hunt and see the energy of a consistent team and I think that’s when you get to make your next move to add another player to the roster.
But as it stands currently what stars are we really gonna wait on. All of them are re upping with there teams for super maxs
For me it depends on what the actual cost winds up being. If it's proportional to the haul they got for Gobert, then we're talking essentially gutting all the assets we have that could be used to improve that core. In that case if Mitchell were to have an injury that affected the rest of his career, we could wind up in no man's land for some time. Teams that make these trades typically have another star or two to fall back on but right now the Knicks don't.
I do agree with doing something (anything) to become a perennial playoff team amongst the top 4-5 seeds. If the Knicks could get it done by giving up the four other team's picks they have and 2 of their own unprotected firsts I'd probably do that but given what they got for Gobert, I bet Ainge would ask for 4 of our own picks unprotected to start which is terrifying.
And as all these pg's sign their rookie max extensions it's gonna knock Brunson further down the list.
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If you don’t go after mitchell. Who’s the next person we are holding out hope for.
I mean at some point you gotta take a stab and go for it
There is something to be said for getting mitchell and being a 3-6 seed for next several years and winning some playoff series.
For starters in 3-4 years. Mitchell and Brunson are 28-29 and rj 24-25. Your window stays open for longer than that and at that point you would have turned the lolknicks narrative that we are crap and have no consistency or continuity. Players would actually see a team that’s in the hunt and see the energy of a consistent team and I think that’s when you get to make your next move to add another player to the roster.
But as it stands currently what stars are we really gonna wait on. All of them are re upping with there teams for super maxs
For me it depends on what the actual cost winds up being. If it's proportional to the haul they got for Gobert, then we're talking essentially gutting all the assets we have that could be used to improve that core. In that case if Mitchell were to have an injury that affected the rest of his career, we could wind up in no man's land for some time. Teams that make these trades typically have another star or two to fall back on but right now the Knicks don't.
I do agree with doing something (anything) to become a perennial playoff team amongst the top 4-5 seeds. If the Knicks could get it done by giving up the four other team's picks they have and 2 of their own unprotected firsts I'd probably do that but given what they got for Gobert, I bet Ainge would ask for 4 of our own picks unprotected to start which is terrifying.
Ultimately it’ll come down to cost.
My thing is if we are giving out a ton of picks I want to hold obi and iq as future assets
So if you give up 1sts unprotected in 2023/25/27 Along with protected 1sts via bucks pistons wizards
Whatever salary is needed to match out of (Fournier/Randle/rose)
Then add grimes / cam
You’d have a young team of Brunson/mitchell/rj/obi/Robinson
With atleast quickley / hartenstein/sims/ then go fill out roster with some min level ring playoff chasers.
I mean the twolves didn’t cough up any young assets outside of walker Kessler. They got to keep McDaniels and didn’t even have to throw in Dlo.
Ainge I’d assume just wants a warchest of picks.
If you hold onto iq and toppin gives you some flexibility to make another trade down the line using them as pieces as well
Curious to see how they handle the Obi and Randle situation now and going forward.
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However, can we not pretend like Stephon Marbury wasn't a great PG for the Knicks. I know his warts, but he was on a shitshow of an organization and played pretty well for the most part.
Marbury was probably ahead of his time. I still haven't seen a PG as strong as he was going up against centers and being able to finish. The problem was he was primarily a scorer and didn't really make those around him better like PGs were expected to. I think he would have been awesome in today's NBA.
Marbury was NOT ahead of his time. He did make two all-star teams so he didn't suck. But for someone as inefficient as he was - he would have needed a perfect situation to win.
He was pretty good but he wasn't going to lead his team - and even being the 2nd best was questionable.
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In comment 15746244 Kmed6000 said:
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However, can we not pretend like Stephon Marbury wasn't a great PG for the Knicks. I know his warts, but he was on a shitshow of an organization and played pretty well for the most part.
Marbury was probably ahead of his time. I still haven't seen a PG as strong as he was going up against centers and being able to finish. The problem was he was primarily a scorer and didn't really make those around him better like PGs were expected to. I think he would have been awesome in today's NBA.
Marbury was NOT ahead of his time. He did make two all-star teams so he didn't suck. But for someone as inefficient as he was - he would have needed a perfect situation to win.
He was pretty good but he wasn't going to lead his team - and even being the 2nd best was questionable.
I'm talking about being a score first PG. That was frowned upon not too long ago.
It would take a set of balls Rose doesn't have to have a back court of Brunson and Mitchell.
The point that Thibs has developed the kids is nonsense.
Quickley, OBI, and Grimes should have been getting minutes all season.
He has on multiple occasions pulled them when they were hot for a little mistake and buried them on the bench.
I would agrue they have developed in spite of Thibs.
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In comment 15746250 robbieballs2003 said:
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In comment 15746244 Kmed6000 said:
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However, can we not pretend like Stephon Marbury wasn't a great PG for the Knicks. I know his warts, but he was on a shitshow of an organization and played pretty well for the most part.
Marbury was probably ahead of his time. I still haven't seen a PG as strong as he was going up against centers and being able to finish. The problem was he was primarily a scorer and didn't really make those around him better like PGs were expected to. I think he would have been awesome in today's NBA.
Marbury was NOT ahead of his time. He did make two all-star teams so he didn't suck. But for someone as inefficient as he was - he would have needed a perfect situation to win.
He was pretty good but he wasn't going to lead his team - and even being the 2nd best was questionable.
I'm talking about being a score first PG. That was frowned upon not too long ago.
Jerry West, Oscar, Clyde (in his prime), Monroe, Dave Bing, Gail Goodrich, Isiah, Nate Arihcbald, Gus "The Wizard" Williams, Jo Jo white, Tim Hardaway, Norm Nixon, Kevin Johnson, and Iverson? Maybe Nixon, KJ and Iverson too recent?
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In comment 15746329 giantstock said:
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In comment 15746250 robbieballs2003 said:
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In comment 15746244 Kmed6000 said:
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However, can we not pretend like Stephon Marbury wasn't a great PG for the Knicks. I know his warts, but he was on a shitshow of an organization and played pretty well for the most part.
Marbury was probably ahead of his time. I still haven't seen a PG as strong as he was going up against centers and being able to finish. The problem was he was primarily a scorer and didn't really make those around him better like PGs were expected to. I think he would have been awesome in today's NBA.
Marbury was NOT ahead of his time. He did make two all-star teams so he didn't suck. But for someone as inefficient as he was - he would have needed a perfect situation to win.
He was pretty good but he wasn't going to lead his team - and even being the 2nd best was questionable.
I'm talking about being a score first PG. That was frowned upon not too long ago.
Jerry West, Oscar, Clyde (in his prime), Monroe, Dave Bing, Gail Goodrich, Isiah, Nate Arihcbald, Gus "The Wizard" Williams, Jo Jo white, Tim Hardaway, Norm Nixon, Kevin Johnson, and Iverson? Maybe Nixon, KJ and Iverson too recent?
🤦🏽♂️
@cjgolson
BREAKING: Per source, I’m told #Heat star Jimmy Butler has been in “constant contact” with #Nets’ Kevin Durant and #Jazz’ Donovan Mitchell about the possibility of teaming up in Miami. All 3 players now pushing hard to make it a reality. I’m told Heat are “all-in” on adding both.
Listen Pat the Rat may be a Wizard, but I don't think even salary cap Jesus could find a way to add 70 mill, halving few draft picks to deal. Lol I guess he can dump Lowry and his 60 mill and Robinson's 4 years and 70 left. Should be pretty easy seeing as we just had to give up like 6 draft picks to dump a couple of 9 mill expirings...
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In comment 15746340 robbieballs2003 said:
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In comment 15746329 giantstock said:
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In comment 15746250 robbieballs2003 said:
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In comment 15746244 Kmed6000 said:
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However, can we not pretend like Stephon Marbury wasn't a great PG for the Knicks. I know his warts, but he was on a shitshow of an organization and played pretty well for the most part.
Marbury was probably ahead of his time. I still haven't seen a PG as strong as he was going up against centers and being able to finish. The problem was he was primarily a scorer and didn't really make those around him better like PGs were expected to. I think he would have been awesome in today's NBA.
Marbury was NOT ahead of his time. He did make two all-star teams so he didn't suck. But for someone as inefficient as he was - he would have needed a perfect situation to win.
He was pretty good but he wasn't going to lead his team - and even being the 2nd best was questionable.
I'm talking about being a score first PG. That was frowned upon not too long ago.
Jerry West, Oscar, Clyde (in his prime), Monroe, Dave Bing, Gail Goodrich, Isiah, Nate Arihcbald, Gus "The Wizard" Williams, Jo Jo white, Tim Hardaway, Norm Nixon, Kevin Johnson, and Iverson? Maybe Nixon, KJ and Iverson too recent?
🤦🏽♂️
Ditto.
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In comment 15746347 giantstock said:
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In comment 15746340 robbieballs2003 said:
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In comment 15746329 giantstock said:
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In comment 15746250 robbieballs2003 said:
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In comment 15746244 Kmed6000 said:
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However, can we not pretend like Stephon Marbury wasn't a great PG for the Knicks. I know his warts, but he was on a shitshow of an organization and played pretty well for the most part.
Marbury was probably ahead of his time. I still haven't seen a PG as strong as he was going up against centers and being able to finish. The problem was he was primarily a scorer and didn't really make those around him better like PGs were expected to. I think he would have been awesome in today's NBA.
Marbury was NOT ahead of his time. He did make two all-star teams so he didn't suck. But for someone as inefficient as he was - he would have needed a perfect situation to win.
He was pretty good but he wasn't going to lead his team - and even being the 2nd best was questionable.
I'm talking about being a score first PG. That was frowned upon not too long ago.
Jerry West, Oscar, Clyde (in his prime), Monroe, Dave Bing, Gail Goodrich, Isiah, Nate Arihcbald, Gus "The Wizard" Williams, Jo Jo white, Tim Hardaway, Norm Nixon, Kevin Johnson, and Iverson? Maybe Nixon, KJ and Iverson too recent?
🤦🏽♂️
Ditto.
You're so annoying. You're bringing up HoF players and comparing them to Marbury. Marbury is not that player. He was labeled as a selfish player who played in an era where the 3 ball wasn't emphasized like it is today with the spacing on the floor. He went up against the bigges guys on the court all the time when defenses were harder to score against.
I made a simple comment stating that he would have been better in today's NBA than when he played. Simple. I'm not sure why you continue to be a dick.
Maybe the Heat have the assets for one of them, but def not both.
They might be able to pull KD because Nets will take back players to get to 40 wins.
Ainge is going full tank mode and will want picks and young talent.
Fucking tease.
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Ditto.
You're so annoying. You're bringing up HoF players and comparing them to Marbury. Marbury is not that player. He was labeled as a selfish player who played in an era where the 3 ball wasn't emphasized like it is today with the spacing on the floor. He went up against the bigges guys on the court all the time when defenses were harder to score against.
I made a simple comment stating that he would have been better in today's NBA than when he played. Simple. I'm not sure why you continue to be a dick.
I made simple reply that he wasn't ahead of hs time.
Noooo was the point I was making -- - you said he would've been better in today';s NBA and that isn't true.
He made two all-star teams back then - so how bad was he? And that's about what he would be now - maybe with expansion you give him a couple more. But that's not ":ahead of his time."
And if he was the number 1 option in this era- where do you think he would've led his teams?
I'm not being a dick. You are just extremely over-exaggerating Marbury. He was a pretty good player. But to suggest he was "ahead of his time" is a lunatic observation.
Nowadays it is more shoot first point guards, people want rhat scoring Point guard, its more combo guards..
And for a shoot first point guard he still averaged 8 assists a game
Nowadays it is more shoot first point guards, people want rhat scoring Point guard, its more combo guards..
And for a shoot first point guard he still averaged 8 assists a game
It's really not that hard ot understand that Marbruy was considered an all-star pg.
Robbie is making up the other stuff. You can google for yourself and see he is up there as far as all-time point guards. To suggest that he was ahead of his time when it is so blatantly obvious you easily google that he was thought of as being pretty good.
His issue would be the same issue he has today - he as a number 1 player would not have bene able to get his teams far at all.
Go ahead and google it. But it’s not your style. You sort of talk out of your ass often.
I am surprised he hasnt asked out
Knicks' 2022 Summer League roster - ( New Window )
Players are allowed to tamper..
Iq has been hanging out with Mitchell a lot this summer..
I'd like to see what Deuce can do at point. Like to see Grimes shoot 50% from 3. Sims like to see show some versatility on the offensive side and stay out of foul trouble.
Be interested to see if Keels can be a back 4 for when we trade Randle.
Delays Miami’s warchest a little I’d assume no ?
Something to the effect of Simmons + picks to Utah, Mitchell and Bridges to BK with a pick or two, and KD to Phoenix. Ayton would likely be moved in the deal also.
If I’m the Nets I’d ask for at least two firsts and a swap or two but seems like a doable scenario for all at least“
Just what Danny Ainge is looking for, a rebuild centered around Ben Simmons and a first or two!
Keels was 6'3 at the combine with the 4th highest body fat and 4th lowest vert and shuttle run plus his biggest issue is shooting.
He has a lot of work to do to play at the next level. I think he was playing football like a year ago.
He is a project and needs to cut weight and get faster
Nowadays it is more shoot first point guards, people want rhat scoring Point guard, its more combo guards..
And for a shoot first point guard he still averaged 8 assists a game
Marbury and Stevie Francis would be a dynamic combo today.
Van Goofy almost destroyed Stevie in Houston by having him run a set offense.
Who doesn't carry a loaded gun in the glove compartment?
Rather ironic that they spelled "Aamir" correctly but not "Simms."
Played D-end for Duke. He is built for Football I think he needs to slimdown for the NBA.
He stupidly chose Duke over Virginia but otherwise acquitted himself well his first year. Seems like a guy who will incrementally get better.
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When Marbury was in his prime the NBA was more pass first point guards, even Iverson was moved to SG..
Nowadays it is more shoot first point guards, people want rhat scoring Point guard, its more combo guards..
And for a shoot first point guard he still averaged 8 assists a game
Marbury and Stevie Francis would be a dynamic combo today.
hahahhahahaha haha
OMG hahahahaha
Thank you for making me cry laughing. hahahahahahaha
In the Book of Jeremiah, it clearly states:
"For Memphis will become a desolation;
It will even be burned down and bereft of inhabitants."
Source: https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Memphis
@ChrisBHaynes
The Los Angeles Lakers and Brooklyn Nets are actively engaged in trade discussions centered on a Russell Westbrook-Kyrie Irving package, league sources tell @YahooSports:
@ChrisBHaynes
The Los Angeles Lakers and Brooklyn Nets are actively engaged in trade discussions centered on a Russell Westbrook-Kyrie Irving package, league sources tell @YahooSports:
He makes it seem like it is close and then you read the article and says Nets are in no rush
This is what i dont get, you have simmons for 4 yearzls, why dont you at least make the team fit around him, i get you are just trying to get as much talent but at least make it fit..
You arent tanking, get shooters and surround simmons and let him play thr point
Let's be honest this is the only 2 teams willing to entertain either of these guys.
Have at it.
Knicks working on anything?
Oh? What are you hearing?
Haha! Well no shit. I’m sure they would
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Says that Utah would be intrigued by an offer of 4 picks, 3 swaps and a young player for Donovan Mitchell.
Haha! Well no shit. I’m sure they would
Yeah just more or less showing that the narrative is going from
Jazz are building around mitchell and keeping him to now ok we’d entertain trading him for a big pick package .
Mitchell’s gotta be on the way out
So something along the lines of Toppin, 2023 Dallas pick top 10 protected, 2023 Wizards lottery protected, 2023 Knicks unprotected, 2025 Knicks unprotected, and swaps in 2024, 2026, 2027?
That seems like way too much. If they could get it down to 3 of those picks and 2 swaps or the 4 picks and 1 swap then maybe. It’s honestly the pick swaps 5 years down the line that would be the deal breaker , who the hell knows what happens between now and then. You could end up giving away the first pick in the draft in a swap.
But he is a very good player and if I were the knicks, I would give up all the protected firsts plus IQ/OBI to get him.
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When Marbury was in his prime the NBA was more pass first point guards, even Iverson was moved to SG..
Nowadays it is more shoot first point guards, people want rhat scoring Point guard, its more combo guards..
And for a shoot first point guard he still averaged 8 assists a game
It's really not that hard ot understand that Marbruy was considered an all-star pg.
Robbie is making up the other stuff. You can google for yourself and see he is up there as far as all-time point guards. To suggest that he was ahead of his time when it is so blatantly obvious you easily google that he was thought of as being pretty good.
His issue would be the same issue he has today - he as a number 1 player would not have bene able to get his teams far at all.
Go ahead and google it. But it’s not your style. You sort of talk out of your ass often.
What am I making up? He played 14 years and was an all star 2 times. He took a ton of shit in NY for his style of play. Again, the simple point I stated was his game would have translated better to today's NBA. That is all. If you disagree then fine but what is your point? To be annoying in your opinion? I don't need to google Marbury. I watched him play. He got passed around a lot in the NBA for a reason.
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In comment 15746398 giantstock said:
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Ditto.
You're so annoying. You're bringing up HoF players and comparing them to Marbury. Marbury is not that player. He was labeled as a selfish player who played in an era where the 3 ball wasn't emphasized like it is today with the spacing on the floor. He went up against the bigges guys on the court all the time when defenses were harder to score against.
I made a simple comment stating that he would have been better in today's NBA than when he played. Simple. I'm not sure why you continue to be a dick.
I made simple reply that he wasn't ahead of hs time.
Noooo was the point I was making -- - you said he would've been better in today';s NBA and that isn't true.
He made two all-star teams back then - so how bad was he? And that's about what he would be now - maybe with expansion you give him a couple more. But that's not ":ahead of his time."
And if he was the number 1 option in this era- where do you think he would've led his teams?
I'm not being a dick. You are just extremely over-exaggerating Marbury. He was a pretty good player. But to suggest he was "ahead of his time" is a lunatic observation.
I am making stuff up? Lol. When did I say he was bad? The guy averaged like 19 and 8 on the Knicks. I never said that. I am saying he took a lot of criticism for his play that he wouldn't be criticized for today because of how the game has changed. I am not saying he needed to be a number 1 either. Again, you are the one making shit up. When I said he was ahead of his time, I simply mean that his game would have translated better in today's NBA with the spacing and lack of true centers and lack of defense. He was criticized for not elevating the play of others but in today's NBA tyat style os wanted by teams. Not sure why you are trying to turn a mountain out of a molehill.
Don't see the Knicks trading RJ for him. It would be a ton of picks and a guy like IQ or Obi along with cap Fillers.
He’s definitely an elite player what concerns me (I use that term loosely as I’d be thrilled if we got him) is we would probably need to add another even better player or better two way force to round out the team. The backcourt would be terrific but I’d feel better if Scottie pippen circa 1994 or draymont green was on this team to sort of bump up the defensive look.
And maybe we’d get that kind of player after Mitchell. I’d probably do it, but maybe some trepidation along the way.
And then there is the Thibs factor as he never really coached a bad defensive team. Guys buy in.
And then there is the Thibs factor as he never really coached a bad defensive team. Guys buy in.
If they have a lineup of Brunson, Mitchell, RJ, and Robinson they should call up Portland and see if they’d be willing to flip Jerami Grant’s expiring deal for Randle. If you could get Grant to bring the complimentary player he was with Denver he would be a great fit at the 4 with those other guys.
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In comment 15746410 robbieballs2003 said:
I am making stuff up? Lol. When did I say he was bad? The guy averaged like 19 and 8 on the Knicks. I never said that. I am saying he took a lot of criticism for his play that he wouldn't be criticized for today because of how the game has changed. I am not saying he needed to be a number 1 either. Again, you are the one making shit up. When I said he was ahead of his time, I simply mean that his game would have translated better in today's NBA with the spacing and lack of true centers and lack of defense. He was criticized for not elevating the play of others but in today's NBA tyat style os wanted by teams. Not sure why you are trying to turn a mountain out of a molehill.
Just because I disagree with you doesn’t mean I’m making a mountain out of a molehill. I am simply responding to imo your extreme overexaggerating of Marbury. You saying he was “ahead of his time” and “how would have been awesome in today’s NBA” is extreme. These things are “made-up,” and they are extreme. You sent me two separate posts and have made several other on this topic (albeit mostly to me but this is to Kned and Vanzetti and any others that agree with you too.). Plus I enjoy the conversation so--
First off- I never suggested that you said that he was bad. Overall I agree with the sentiment he was a pretty good player but having big issue with "ahead of hit time," and "would be awesome in today's NBA."
But what I don’t agree with your points is that you seem to think he wouldn’t have been “as criticized” but yet he would have still been “criticized.” SO your point of him being “awesome in today’s NBA” is way off-base. As a result of him being criticized to a degree of overall not winning – that would have been justified today just as it was beck then He didn’t win. He couldn’t play with Kevin Garnett. He gets traded from the Nets to Phoenix for Kidd (and while ofc not as good as Kidd)-but Nets go from 26-56 (with Marbury) to losing in NBA Finals (with Kidd) while Phoenix goes from 51-31 with Kidd to 35-46 with Marbury. Granted not all his fault but in-around these years Marbury was an All-Star. These are extreme "team" numbers. His quality of play couldn’t translate into wins. Same would have been in this era.
This just further illustrates the same problem he had back then that would happen in today’s NBA; as good as he was there were going to be quite a few teams with better number 1/ number 2 players that would have beaten a team led by Marbury in this era too. What good teams in this era would Marbury-led have beaten if he was the number 1 player other than playing against teams hurt by injury? Yes he would have had more points and assists but he would have gotten abused at the other end too. He wasn’t a defender. Heck his rebound numbers (granted the era wasn’t conducive to pg.’s rebounding) but he averaged just around 2.6 to 3.4 for his career. Heck 6’0 Tim Hardaway was a better rebounder than Marbury.
And with all this you are implying he got a bad rap? Since when is losing as much as he did warrant giving him a pass? This is New York. OFC he is going to get criticized a ton if he is losing, and there is history he had. In New York they boo Derek Jeter. Boo Mariano Rivera. Boo this current tremendous Yankee team when they had a tough 2-game stretch,. So – seriously you are saying or implying he wouldn’t be criticized today if he wasn’t winning but just because on offense he would be putting up good numbers in the spread offense then that would be okay in New York????
Losing does not make one awesome - at least in New York other than a year or two before it gets very old.
Jesus Christ-- just skip it if you don't want to read it.
Seems like you couldn't prove it.
Speculated as much on Thursday.
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Katz expects the Knicks to be punished for tampering
Speculated as much on Thursday.
could we be forced to give up our rights to Stephon Marbury?
Yeah I thought Cuban was a lot of things, but a whiny little bitch is not one of them. I mean it's Jalen friggen Brunson. It's not like we poached 20 year old Lebron.
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In comment 15746990 DanMetroMan said:
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Katz expects the Knicks to be punished for tampering
Speculated as much on Thursday.
could we be forced to give up our rights to Stephon Marbury?
Ha ha Del this reminds of the 80's when we flirted with signing Kevin McHale to an offer sheet. We never did but Red Auerbach threw the ultimate hissy fit. He signed like 4 Knick Rfa's to offer sheets. I think it was Rory Sparrow, like Sly Williams, Marvin Webster. What a baby. We should have stuck him with all of them that idiot.
Most excited to see Grimes play again. Never seemed right after the patella injury last year.
I really think if he had been allowed to play more, and hadn't missed time to injury, the outlook on this season would feel better.
Cash and a 2nd round pick has been the precedent which I don't imagine the NBA will stray from. I'm hoping they get a 2nd round pick or two from Dallas to do a sign and trade (like Fournier last year) although who knows if Dallas will play ball. Cuban is petty.
Cubans just a bitch who’s in his feelings wanting the Knicks punished. Everyone tampers. Move along with it
And it feels like the Knicks still have a move or two to make.
Will there be a sign-and-trade for Brunson? What are they going to do with Cam. You can't just freeze a young guy on the bench like Thibs did. And Randle usually plays 38 minutes in a Thibs offense. Obi deserves more minutes where will that come from? With Robinson and Hart newly signed it is unlikely they will play a Randle/Toppin front line.
Will the Knicks keep Rose (I hope so) since Jalen/RJ/Fournier will suck up a lot of the guard minutes.
As I understand it, they've already signed Brunson, so I don't think there will be a sign-and-trade. And with Cuban pissed at the Knicks I doubt there will be a trade with the Mavs. I think they keep Randle but agree that with Rob/Hart at C, it's unlikely they'll play a Randle/Toppin front line. So I think Obi's minutes will continue to be an issue.
Most likely to be traded, imv, are Fournier and Reddish. I could see other teams being interested in them.
I thought sign-and-trade meant the player signs with the old team first (on terms agreeable to the new team) and then gets traded. That ship has sailed, no?
Ah, got it - thanks.
What?
Link - ( New Window )
It is impressive, but his % will probably go down a bit in NY. In Dallas he was functionally an off-guard in some possessions when Luka was controlling the ball. As a pure PG, he’ll have a lot more possessions when the ball gets dumped on him with the shot clock running down and he has to hoist a low % shot.
Would a sign-and-trade nullify tampering?
Fundamentally, the original team has to be amenable to the terms of the sign-and-trade, especially when the new team has space to sign the player outright as a FA anyway, right? And a sign-and-trade would provide Dallas with some form of compensation for Brunson. Intuitively, I would assume that a sign-and-trade renders the tampering charge moot, but I have nothing to base that on besides the logic that a sign-and-trade requires - at least nominally - that the player signs with his original team and is traded to his new team subsequently. And thus, if Brunson technically signs a contract with Dallas, and then Dallas enters into a trade agreement with the Knicks of their own volition, there could logically be no tampering.
But, since this is the NBA, where the salary cap isn't a cap, teams can't trade their first-round pick in consecutive years but can trade that same player immediately after selecting them, and future first-round picks can become second-round picks if they take too long to convey, I suspect that a sign-and-trade would in no way alter the allegation of tampering by the Knicks, logic be damned.
But the league is starting to crack down on this more often. In previous cases, I believe the league needed a paper trail (e-mails, texts) in order to prove its case. Not sure if the burden of proof is now lower.
I'm this case, Dallas would give the Knicks a very small asset. Knicks would agree because it costs them nothing. And Dallas get a $20M trade exception. The only downside for the Knicks is that they are then hard capped but that won't matter for them this year.
I'm this case, Dallas would give the Knicks a very small asset. Knicks would agree because it costs them nothing. And Dallas get a $20M trade exception. The only downside for the Knicks is that they are then hard capped but that won't matter for them this year.
True, although I would assume Dallas would be looking for a player to use that space on anyway, so if Fournier (for example) is appealing to the Mavs (in the sense that he's comparable to the sort of player they'd use the exception to acquire anyway), he could be sent to Dallas if they were so inclined, couldn't he? Or would a trade exception be more appealing regardless?
Link - ( New Window )
If they move Randle, bringing back Melo would be fun as the backup 4.
Apparently Melo recently had dinner with Dolan
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I know with connections to athletes in general (not necessarily a Knicks source) said the Knicks were at least "in contact" with Carmelo Anthony. Not that there was any traction or an offer or anything but that they had spoken since FA opened.
If they move Randle, bringing back Melo would be fun as the backup 4.
My complete guess is this was along the lines of what was discussed.
He looked good.
I'm this case, Dallas would give the Knicks a very small asset. Knicks would agree because it costs them nothing. And Dallas get a $20M trade exception. The only downside for the Knicks is that they are then hard capped but that won't matter for them this year.
It's also a hedge against a tampering charge. If the Knicks get a 2nd round pick in this upcoming draft, it's likely that's the pick they would forfeit.
@TheNBACentral
Opposing executive on Collin Sexton: ‘He has no market’
@TheNBACentral
Opposing executive on Collin Sexton: ‘He has no market’
I was deathly afraid the Knicks would trade for him last year. He's not good.
Kevin Knox looked good in summer league once.
I know its rare but in his case id prolly take the QO and play out the year as opposed to taking a 4/48 deal or whatever CLE is looking to pay him. I know the risk is huge and 48 mill is a lot of money, but still.
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NBACentral
@TheNBACentral
Opposing executive on Collin Sexton: ‘He has no market’
I was deathly afraid the Knicks would trade for him last year. He's not good.
He's hurt too unless I am mistaken.
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Only summer league but man was Chet impressive
Kevin Knox looked good in summer league once.
Sure and there are dozens of such examples but Holmgren also very much impressed this season in college. Maybe he won't hold up with that build but he and Giddey looked better than any player on that court by a significant margin.
"Chet Holmgren hit 7-of-9 shots, four 3-pointers and 5-of-5 free throws for 23 points, seven rebounds, four assists, one steal and six blocks in Tuesday's 98-77 Summer League win over the Jazz. "
You wont know that in summer league, he is going to dominate, what does he do in training camp when Isiah Stewart is banging him and pushing him around, how does he respond to that
You wont know that in summer league, he is going to dominate, what does he do in training camp when Isiah Stewart is banging him and pushing him around, how does he respond to that
In fairness, Stewart likely bodies Obi as well. He has 30+ pounds on him.
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its can he gain the strength to battle bigs in the NBA, will he be able to handle someone getting physical with him..
You wont know that in summer league, he is going to dominate, what does he do in training camp when Isiah Stewart is banging him and pushing him around, how does he respond to that
In fairness, Stewart likely bodies Obi as well. He has 30+ pounds on him.
Thats true but he is still going to have to prove he can go down low..
He is going to be a good player simply because of the skill he possesses, but if he cant go down low or he is injired a lot ita going to be a major problem
@BobbyMarks42
·
4m
Beal becomes only the 10th player to have a no trade clause joining LeBron, KG, Melo, Dirk, Kobe, DWade, Duncan, David Robinson and John Stockton.
The contract also has a 15% trade kicker and player option in year 5.
@BobbyMarks42
·
4m
Beal becomes only the 10th player to have a no trade clause joining LeBron, KG, Melo, Dirk, Kobe, DWade, Duncan, David Robinson and John Stockton.
The contract also has a 15% trade kicker and player option in year 5.
They're gonna regret that...
"Beal becomes only the 10th player to have a no trade clause joining LeBron, KG, Melo, Dirk, Kobe, DWade, Duncan, David Robinson and John Stockton"
Link - ( New Window )
@IanBegley
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59s
Multiple teams have expressed interest in NYK’s Taj Gibson during FA period. Gibson’s contract for next year is fully non-guaranteed. NYK could waive Gibson to create cap space for Brunson or acquire Brunson via S&T. His NYK teammates have roundly praised Gibson over past 3 years
The crazy thing is the GM was getting all kinds of praise for getting out from under Wall's deal and essentially turning it into a couple of good rotational pieces like Kuczma and Caldwell Pope and then he goes and anchors them down with Beal and a non trade for 50 mill the next 5 years. Mind boggling.
Yeah, one of the SL players I'm most interested to see.
I’m guessing there is no way in hell KD agrees to go to NO. Not a chance. And if he makes that known, the Pels aren’t touching him
KD is a helluva talent...he is probably top 20 all time. But he comes across as mentally weak/always looking for an easy way out.
I was listening to a pod-I forget which one-that mentioned that even if KD is traded to Phoenix, it'll be similar to him going to Golden State, in that it'll never be his team. Curry is beloved by Dubs fans & apparently Booker has the same relationship with Suns fans, though Steph is obviously a much superior talent.
He should but like the Kawhi to Toronto deal, he'll cave eventually. Unfortunately for the rest of us, that may not be until September
That’s exactly what I’m hoping for. It’s going to take teams to start taking a hard stance if they want this nonsense to stop. But they won’t. They know it’s too easy for players to play the game to sit out and get paid. The ole “ ouch, my hammy hurts” or “I think I tweaked my back” always does the trick. Until teams can figure out if a player is faking an injury, they are at their mercy. And it’s not easy to say a player is faking it.
And Harden. He literally came in fat and out of shape to try to force Houston to trade him. He intentionally sabotaged the team to get his way. I get the idea of why people think player empowerment is a good thing. And I suppose it is in theory. But the reality of it is that it brings out the worst in people and it can often times be an incredibly bad look for those that take extreme measures to get what they want. And it sucks for the fans. Which always takes a back seat
Yeah, unintended consequences of the designated vet player extension/supermax rules. Instead of incentivizing players to stay with their teams, they're just signing bigger contracts and forcing their way out anyways. I guess you could say that the silver lining is that it does allow teams to recoup some value vs losing a player for nothing in FA. Truth be told, my opinion is that the best way to fix this is to do away with max contracts altogether. It would lead to superstar players having to choose between getting paid far more money and going to whatever existing good team they want to go to. I bet most would choose the money.
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Look @ Simmons & his back. I generally side with the players over the owners, but this 'player empowerment' is getting annoying AF. Half of these guys sign a contract & are immediately bitching & asking for a trade before you know it. Look at Zion...he just reupped with the Pels. I'd be shocked if he's not demanding a trade within the next couple of years if NOLA isn't a title contender.
Yeah, unintended consequences of the designated vet player extension/supermax rules. Instead of incentivizing players to stay with their teams, they're just signing bigger contracts and forcing their way out anyways. I guess you could say that the silver lining is that it does allow teams to recoup some value vs losing a player for nothing in FA. Truth be told, my opinion is that the best way to fix this is to do away with max contracts altogether. It would lead to superstar players having to choose between getting paid far more money and going to whatever existing good team they want to go to. I bet most would choose the money.
if you eliminate the max contracts and go to ta hard cap, it would solve a lot of these problems. And it would help to prop up small market teams as well.
@ShamsCharania
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36s
The New York Knicks and two-way center Jericho Sims have agreed on a new three-year NBA contract, sources tell @TheAthletic
@Stadium
. Sims averaged 13.5 minutes and 4.1 rebounds in 41 games as a rookie last season, and now earns a standard deal.
@FredKatz
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11s
Second-round pick Trevor Keels will sign a two-way contract with the Knicks, sources tell @TheAthleticNBA
. Knicks opened up a two-way spot by giving Jericho Sims a three-year contract, as @ShamsCharania
just reported.
Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn
Memphis Grizzlies G John Konchar has agreed to a three-year, $19 million contract extension, his agent @GeorgeLangberg
tells ESPN. The deal, fully guaranteed, will take the undrafted guard out of Purdue-Ft. Wayne to $30M in career earnings.
The official word is Brunson is on vacation with his girlfriend causing the delay.
The delay does leave the possibility of a sign-and-trade if the Knicks and Mavericks could find a suitable exchange. That would allow the Mavericks to recoup something in return for Brunson, although helping the Knicks salary cap situation might not be of interest to Dallas executives who were unhappy with some of the Knicks pursuit of Brunson — particularly the front-row playoff game appearance of Knicks executive vice president William Wesley, along with Allan Houston and Julius Randle.
A sign-and-trade would help the Knicks finish off their roster planning. With the salaries of Brunson and Hartenstein the Knicks would run up to the limit of the cap again, needing to waive the non-guaranteed contract of Taj Gibson to fit the two newcomers on the roster. If they do waive Gibson’s $5.2 million deal, they could still bring him back and he has expressed not only a desire to remain in New York, but also to serve as a coach when his playing days are done.
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they are working on a S&T, right? I believe Hartenstein was officially signed because the clippers were unable to do a S&T.
The official word is Brunson is on vacation with his girlfriend causing the delay.
Oh ok, thanks. I wonder if the "tampering" allegations will prevent the teams from doing a sign and trade anyway.
He's so damn fun to watch, health is the only thing that will stop him from being in that Shaq/LeBron/Giannis tier of scoring at the rim at will. Hopefully he cuts weight and gets closer to his Duke playing weight. He was so much better on defense at Duke when he was like 30 lbs lighter.
He's so damn fun to watch, health is the only thing that will stop him from being in that Shaq/LeBron/Giannis tier of scoring at the rim at will. Hopefully he cuts weight and gets closer to his Duke playing weight. He was so much better on defense at Duke when he was like 30 lbs lighter.
He legit seems like a great kid. Always smiling, tons of charitable stuff, for his own sake I hope he can stay healthy and keep the weight off. He would (and maybe in the future will be) an absolute mega-watt A+ star in a major market aka NY. His most recent picture, he's looking much, much leaner. Good for him.
IMO, Minny traded all those picks because they know that if this crazy experiment doesn't work then they can trade Towns and recoup a lot of that draft capital.
Anthony Edwards is their Franchise guy now imo, and they're hoping he takes a Ja Morant-like leap in Year 3. It's possible, that kid has star written all over him, but while they're high as ever on Edwards it seems like they're low as ever on Towns.
It's possible that the Towns at PF experiment does work, especially if Edwards ascends to "legit NBA star level" and Gobert remains a DPOY type of player. But if this doesn't work out, I could easily see Towns being on another team next year. Hell, if they stink up the joint to start the year, maybe he even gets traded mid-season. If that's the case, then the Knicks would 100% be one of the teams that aggressively goes after him imo.
REPORT: The Brooklyn Nets asked the Minnesota Timberwolves for Karl-Anthony Towns, Anthony Edwards, and 4 draft-picks in exchange for Kevin Durant.
-Chris Haynes
REPORT: The Brooklyn Nets asked the Minnesota Timberwolves for Karl-Anthony Towns, Anthony Edwards, and 4 draft-picks in exchange for Kevin Durant.
-Chris Haynes
They are shooting high because they have no intention of trading him, they figure if they get what they ask for awesome but they are going to go to KD and be like hey we tried
REPORT: The Brooklyn Nets asked the Minnesota Timberwolves for Karl-Anthony Towns, Anthony Edwards, and 4 draft-picks in exchange for Kevin Durant.
-Chris Haynes
This is hilarious. I'd love to hear the recording of the Twolves response to that one.
I saw Windy said earlier today that the Nets expected a crazy bidding war for Durant and that hasn't been the case at all.
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c'mon, there is shooting high and there is "absurd"
REPORT: The Brooklyn Nets asked the Minnesota Timberwolves for Karl-Anthony Towns, Anthony Edwards, and 4 draft-picks in exchange for Kevin Durant.
-Chris Haynes
This is hilarious. I'd love to hear the recording of the Twolves response to that one.
I saw Windy said earlier today that the Nets expected a crazy bidding war for Durant and that hasn't been the case at all.
They used Woj to push this narrative and no one is going to give them some crazy deal for a 34 year old durant
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c'mon, there is shooting high and there is "absurd"
REPORT: The Brooklyn Nets asked the Minnesota Timberwolves for Karl-Anthony Towns, Anthony Edwards, and 4 draft-picks in exchange for Kevin Durant.
-Chris Haynes
They are shooting high because they have no intention of trading him, they figure if they get what they ask for awesome but they are going to go to KD and be like hey we tried
exactly
Robin Lundberg
@robinlundberg
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Jul 5
May be true but I don’t do Phoenix deal without another team(s) and better assets involved and I don’t do Toronto deal without Barnes. Otherwise tell KD I’ll see him in Fall.
I would REALLY enjoy watching Brunson, RJ, IQ, Grimes, Toppin and Mitch take full ownership of the team next season.
I am sure they will get a lot for him, but I think teams will be hesitant to give Brooklyn any where near what they are looking for. At this point is KD all that much less of a nut than Kyrie? This will be his 4th team in like 6 years, so clearly you can’t count on him stick around long, he comes off as a total douche in interviews, had a burner account on Twitter, and now routinely goes after fans on there from his main account. Between that and the fact that he’s 34 years old and pretty much always injured, how do you give up even what Minnesota just gave up for Gobert and feel good about it?
Really the only case you can make for it is if by bringing him in you’re the favorite to win the title. I guess you could argue that would be the case in Phoenix, but then you probably only have a 2 year window and can you count on him and CP3 both making it through a full postseason? Just seems like a huge risk that not many teams are in the position to take.