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So Chris Mara's job title changed...

Ten Ton Hammer : 6/30/2022 5:28 pm
Now a "Senior Personnel Consultant" not a VP of player personnel"

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New Regime has No Time  
Think I've Had Enough : 7/2/2022 8:25 am : link
for people who don't know things the bosses don't already know or offer insights they don't already have. Chris Mara's haphazard work habits as a scout made him unreliable and an undesirable, whatever his last name.
RE: New Regime has No Time  
Optimus-NY : 7/2/2022 8:30 am : link
In comment 15746210 Think I've Had Enough said:
Quote:
for people who don't know things the bosses don't already know or offer insights they don't already have. Chris Mara's haphazard work habits as a scout made him unreliable and an undesirable, whatever his last name.


Most important of all, he was unfireable. This is what George Young preached against for years. He has essentially been "fired", nut he'll always be the owner for as long as he continues to live.
RE: A positive move imv  
Optimus-NY : 7/2/2022 8:31 am : link
In comment 15746206 Rick in Dallas said:
Quote:
This is all on Joe Schoen now.John Mara has given JS the authority to reshape the the personnel dept.
Let's hope we see positive results over the next few years on the field in more wins and playoffs.

Honestly, this time last year I never thought we would see these positive changes in the Giants FO.


Don't forget the Tisches. I give them more credit for all of the positive organizational changes we've seen than I do the Maras. They do won 50 percent of the team.
Who Knows What’s Going?  
Samiam : 7/2/2022 9:23 am : link
Isn’t the most likely scenario that Mara and Tisch basically realized that the team sucks and has sucked for awhile. The Giants went from winning 2 SBs in a few years to the bottom of the league for an extended period. Isn’t it likely that Mara realized that unless they turned the decision making to a professional that this organization was going to nowhere? Owners will always have a say, they write the checks. But, this GM is the guy making the decisions.
This is a big deal, IMO, and a good move  
regulator : 7/2/2022 11:03 am : link
the title VP of Player Personnel isn't just a throwaway, it means something in the football operation, and there is a level of accountability associated with it. In the post-Judge firestorm, the Giants organization clearly wanted to spare Chris from the vitriol and harsh criticism (rightfully) directed to the front office. So, we all heard some "friendly" media leak about how well-respected Chris is around the league as a talent evaluator, that his role had diminished in recent years, etc.

Fine. But he still had the title, and for that, he couldn't just skate. Owners all around the league, and in other sports, have a certain level of veto power over pretty much any organizational decision by virtue of their position. Chris had something more... a deliberate leadership role with a management-level title in the football operation. He occupied this strange position on the organizational flowchart that appeared to have him answerable only to his brother and Steve Tisch, but imbued with a title that should fall under the purview of the GM. I don't care what anyone said, that to me was a problem.

Following the debacle of the last few years, the Giants' preferred narrative with regard to Chris failed because two things couldn't be true at once: (1) Chris is a skilled personnel guy, the head of the player personnel operation (so why have our personnel decisions been so bad in spite of him?); AND (2) Chris really isn't involved at all in the football operation (so is he derelicting his duties as a VP-PP?).

A consultant isn't, by definition, an organizational decisionmaker. And if that's really all Chris has been in the last few years, then he shouldn't hold an accountability-free, honorific title. I think this new title reflects a more appropriate role for him in the organization.

As for Tim McDonnell, while he's not presently an owner (his mother holds the share, IIRC), he's an heir, so that confers a certain degree of special privilege. But his case is much different from Chris, simply because of time. He hasn't been in the role long enough to establish any sort of track record, so I'm willing to let things play out. But I would approach his position, and relative degree of success/failure, in the same way I did Chris as VP-PP.
RE: It’s good you are still here Speedy...  
FStubbs : 7/2/2022 11:10 am : link
In comment 15746195 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
When you give you your views, it helps give others some perspective as to how fans can look at things with the team and still not get it. It makes them feel good about themselves.

And I like you of course because of these fun exchanges...


The burden of proof was always on you in these Mara discussions. The Giants website makes it plain as day what Chris Mara's role was - and now is.

It's on you to prove Chris Mara had nothing to do with the Giants recent failures and had no role in the organization, and that these threads were and are irrelevant.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Haha, love it.  
Jimmy Googs : 7/2/2022 11:22 am : link
In comment 15746204 Optimus-NY said:
Quote:

The article linked at the bottom of this post also dives deep into this subject. You sound like a member of the Mara family Googs. The Maras are thin-skinned and proved it when John went into instant defense-mode regarding his brother's role and that of his nephew. Follow the tea leaves. It's not integral calculus or organic chemistry here...


Good lord, what nonsense. Dig a little deeper and you will start hypothesizing Chris was at Dealy Plaza that day back in Nov 1963.

John gets upset when asked because he knows it so stupid for people to go down this path. Especially when he has been clear that it is the GM that runs things (albeit as poorly as possible). His brother's presence in the building has little importance...

RE: RE: It’s good you are still here Speedy...  
Jimmy Googs : 7/2/2022 11:32 am : link
In comment 15746281 FStubbs said:
Quote:
In comment 15746195 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


When you give you your views, it helps give others some perspective as to how fans can look at things with the team and still not get it. It makes them feel good about themselves.

And I like you of course because of these fun exchanges...



The burden of proof was always on you in these Mara discussions. The Giants website makes it plain as day what Chris Mara's role was - and now is.

It's on you to prove Chris Mara had nothing to do with the Giants recent failures and had no role in the organization, and that these threads were and are irrelevant.


No it's actually not. John went into what his brother does in the building when asked...it's in the article linked above. It's basically nothing. And you have been told to not concern yourself with the website/org chart with respect to Chris...so much that they just changed it to stop the media and folks like you going down rabbit holes.

Probably his more important role (ironic) is that Chris whispers in his brother's ear every now and then on topics, but that doesn't mean John's dumb thought-process got better or worse in doing so. Nor will it be prevented from happening no matter his title because, wait for it...he's an owner too.

Schoen is where you attention should be, he runs the show...
Jeez, go look at the video from the Giants.....  
MOOPS : 7/2/2022 12:47 pm : link
draft room on draft day. Chris Mara had a puss on him like somebody just stole the secret decoder ring from his Cracker Jack box.
Whatever the frig he used to do, he sure as hell ain't doing it anymore.
RE: Jeez, go look at the video from the Giants.....  
Optimus-NY : 7/2/2022 1:16 pm : link
In comment 15746316 MOOPS said:
Quote:
draft room on draft day. Chris Mara had a puss on him like somebody just stole the secret decoder ring from his Cracker Jack box.
Whatever the frig he used to do, he sure as hell ain't doing it anymore.


Exactly. Steve Tisch was there for a reason. The member of the Mara family to be dealt with next is Tim McDonnell.
RE: RE: RE: It’s good you are still here Speedy...  
Optimus-NY : 7/2/2022 1:32 pm : link
In comment 15746289 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 15746281 FStubbs said:


Quote:


In comment 15746195 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


When you give you your views, it helps give others some perspective as to how fans can look at things with the team and still not get it. It makes them feel good about themselves.

And I like you of course because of these fun exchanges...



The burden of proof was always on you in these Mara discussions. The Giants website makes it plain as day what Chris Mara's role was - and now is.

It's on you to prove Chris Mara had nothing to do with the Giants recent failures and had no role in the organization, and that these threads were and are irrelevant.



No it's actually not. John went into what his brother does in the building when asked...it's in the article linked above. It's basically nothing. And you have been told to not concern yourself with the website/org chart with respect to Chris...so much that they just changed it to stop the media and folks like you going down rabbit holes.

Probably his more important role (ironic) is that Chris whispers in his brother's ear every now and then on topics, but that doesn't mean John's dumb thought-process got better or worse in doing so. Nor will it be prevented from happening no matter his title because, wait for it...he's an owner too.

Schoen is where you attention should be, he runs the show...


I see why you were accused of being a Mara on those archived threads. You sound so smart with those ellipses you incorrectly use, just like your ridiculous counter-points...
Ok, good talk. Well done.  
Jimmy Googs : 7/2/2022 2:39 pm : link
Blame Chris Mara all you want but he was in charge of nothing and did basically nothing. Just being at the scene of the crime while bad decisions were being made isn’t helpful but not sure you all wanted him there anyway.

The Maras were humbled a good bit during this last offseason and now are letting smarter football people and processes underpin this next regime. Changing Chris’ silly title for an even more toothless title is just part of it…



RE: Jeez, go look at the video from the Giants.....  
Jimmy Googs : 7/2/2022 2:42 pm : link
In comment 15746316 MOOPS said:
Quote:
draft room on draft day. Chris Mara had a puss on him like somebody just stole the secret decoder ring from his Cracker Jack box.
Whatever the frig he used to do, he sure as hell ain't doing it anymore.


So in all the previous drafts he was see running the Room, on the phone making deals and orchestrating the picks like he was Gordon Gekko?

Ahem…no.
RE: RE: Jeez, go look at the video from the Giants.....  
Optimus-NY : 7/2/2022 2:57 pm : link
In comment 15746365 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 15746316 MOOPS said:


Quote:


draft room on draft day. Chris Mara had a puss on him like somebody just stole the secret decoder ring from his Cracker Jack box.
Whatever the frig he used to do, he sure as hell ain't doing it anymore.



So in all the previous drafts he was see running the Room, on the phone making deals and orchestrating the picks like he was Gordon Gekko?

Ahem…no.


His title was Senior Vice President of Player Personnel. That actually means something. You probably deny the sky is blue during a sunny summer's day too, so there's no point in engaging individuals such as yourself. What a mongo you are...
RE: RE: Jeez, go look at the video from the Giants.....  
MOOPS : 7/2/2022 2:59 pm : link
In comment 15746365 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 15746316 MOOPS said:


Quote:


draft room on draft day. Chris Mara had a puss on him like somebody just stole the secret decoder ring from his Cracker Jack box.
Whatever the frig he used to do, he sure as hell ain't doing it anymore.



So in all the previous drafts he was see running the Room, on the phone making deals and orchestrating the picks like he was Gordon Gekko?

Ahem…no.



Big difference between looking like you're enjoying the moment vs. having just been chemically castrated.

Go with the text presented, don't create your own.
RE: RE: RE: Jeez, go look at the video from the Giants.....  
Jimmy Googs : 7/2/2022 3:04 pm : link
In comment 15746384 Optimus-NY said:
Quote:
In comment 15746365 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


In comment 15746316 MOOPS said:


Quote:


draft room on draft day. Chris Mara had a puss on him like somebody just stole the secret decoder ring from his Cracker Jack box.
Whatever the frig he used to do, he sure as hell ain't doing it anymore.



So in all the previous drafts he was see running the Room, on the phone making deals and orchestrating the picks like he was Gordon Gekko?

Ahem…no.



His title was Senior Vice President of Player Personnel. That actually means something. You probably deny the sky is blue during a sunny summer's day too, so there's no point in engaging individuals such as yourself. What a mongo you are...


No it actually doesn’t. Player Personnel all reported to the GM. Still does.

He was an owner who wanted a football title and they gave him that and an office to fill out 5 or so college evals a year. And he got to go on road-trips like to senior bowl and draft…cool huh?
RE: RE: RE: Jeez, go look at the video from the Giants.....  
Jimmy Googs : 7/2/2022 3:07 pm : link
In comment 15746386 MOOPS said:
Quote:
In comment 15746365 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


In comment 15746316 MOOPS said:


Quote:


draft room on draft day. Chris Mara had a puss on him like somebody just stole the secret decoder ring from his Cracker Jack box.
Whatever the frig he used to do, he sure as hell ain't doing it anymore.



So in all the previous drafts he was see running the Room, on the phone making deals and orchestrating the picks like he was Gordon Gekko?

Ahem…no.




Big difference between looking like you're enjoying the moment vs. having just been chemically castrated.

Go with the text presented, don't create your own.


Create my own text?…I hope so.

You’re over here capturing the mood and temperament of Chris from a 5 second video shot and suggesting it’s when he fell from grace.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Jeez, go look at the video from the Giants.....  
Optimus-NY : 7/2/2022 3:12 pm : link
In comment 15746392 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 15746384 Optimus-NY said:


Quote:


In comment 15746365 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


In comment 15746316 MOOPS said:


Quote:


draft room on draft day. Chris Mara had a puss on him like somebody just stole the secret decoder ring from his Cracker Jack box.
Whatever the frig he used to do, he sure as hell ain't doing it anymore.



So in all the previous drafts he was see running the Room, on the phone making deals and orchestrating the picks like he was Gordon Gekko?

Ahem…no.



His title was Senior Vice President of Player Personnel. That actually means something. You probably deny the sky is blue during a sunny summer's day too, so there's no point in engaging individuals such as yourself. What a mongo you are...



No it actually doesn’t. Player Personnel all reported to the GM. Still does.

He was an owner who wanted a football title and they gave him that and an office to fill out 5 or so college evals a year. And he got to go on road-trips like to senior bowl and draft…cool huh?



Jerry in DC made a great point in the thread linked below:



Googs Mara is an expert at the Jedi Mind Trick...




(Archived Thread) Sirius now- Weis is PISSED about the Schwartz(BBI Mentioned) jvm52106 : 1/13/2022 10:13 am - ( New Window )
RE: RE: RE: RE: Jeez, go look at the video from the Giants.....  
MOOPS : 7/2/2022 3:21 pm : link
In comment 15746394 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 15746386 MOOPS said:


Quote:


In comment 15746365 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


In comment 15746316 MOOPS said:


Quote:


draft room on draft day. Chris Mara had a puss on him like somebody just stole the secret decoder ring from his Cracker Jack box.
Whatever the frig he used to do, he sure as hell ain't doing it anymore.



So in all the previous drafts he was see running the Room, on the phone making deals and orchestrating the picks like he was Gordon Gekko?

Ahem…no.




Big difference between looking like you're enjoying the moment vs. having just been chemically castrated.

Go with the text presented, don't create your own.



Create my own text?…I hope so.

You’re over here capturing the mood and temperament of Chris from a 5 second video shot and suggesting it’s when he fell from grace.


Googs, love to stay and chat, but life's just too short.
Optimus - NY...  
bw in dc : 7/2/2022 4:07 pm : link
Kudos to some very good posts on this topic.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Jeez, go look at the video from the Giants.....  
Jimmy Googs : 7/2/2022 4:29 pm : link
In comment 15746396 Optimus-NY said:
Quote:
In comment 15746392 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


In comment 15746384 Optimus-NY said:


Quote:


In comment 15746365 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


In comment 15746316 MOOPS said:


Quote:


draft room on draft day. Chris Mara had a puss on him like somebody just stole the secret decoder ring from his Cracker Jack box.
Whatever the frig he used to do, he sure as hell ain't doing it anymore.



So in all the previous drafts he was see running the Room, on the phone making deals and orchestrating the picks like he was Gordon Gekko?

Ahem…no.



His title was Senior Vice President of Player Personnel. That actually means something. You probably deny the sky is blue during a sunny summer's day too, so there's no point in engaging individuals such as yourself. What a mongo you are...



No it actually doesn’t. Player Personnel all reported to the GM. Still does.

He was an owner who wanted a football title and they gave him that and an office to fill out 5 or so college evals a year. And he got to go on road-trips like to senior bowl and draft…cool huh?




Jerry in DC made a great point in the thread linked below:



Googs Mara is an expert at the Jedi Mind Trick...


(Archived Thread) Sirius now- Weis is PISSED about the Schwartz(BBI Mentioned) jvm52106 : 1/13/2022 10:13 am - ( New Window )


John Mara isn’t an expert at anything including misdirection like a Jedi.

Jerrry’s point is only half right. Player Personnel is a critical role but just because Chris Mara wasn’t doing it doesn’t mean the job wasn’t being done by the GM and his team. Done poorly of course, but it was being addressed.

I never said having Chris Mara in the bldg with that title is a good thing...it’s just more like a nothing imv. I would remove him altogether, and tell John to go play golf more as well. But I also wouldn’t spend time determined that Chris having a title results in some extra negative influence that may/may not exist because he can simply just provide the same as brother and an owner anyway. And those aren’t going away.

The Giants needed to find a quality GM that has strong player evaluation skills. Do that and all the family stuff will become irrelevant or fall in line.

RE: Optimus - NY...  
Jimmy Googs : 7/2/2022 4:41 pm : link
In comment 15746420 bw in dc said:
Quote:
Kudos to some very good posts on this topic.


Conspiracy theories are always fun topics. I like when the unknown turns into the dark side with some posters, and I know you like the action too from that viewpoint.

But while incompetence ran rampart for years in that bldg, this one I can’t subscribe to. But happy to listen to in case someone figures out that Booth and Oswald really didn’t do it.

:- )
I see Tim McD. differently  
Dave on the UWS : 7/2/2022 4:41 pm : link
He seems relatively, pretty grounded. He has said publicly, he knows he was born with the "silver spoon in his mouth". He has worked in personnel in Detroit and I think someplace else (escapes me for the moment). He wants to "earn" his keep, and do the job because of qualifications, not just because of his blood line. More than willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, and I suspect he will be able to actively work with Schoen for the team's benefit. That will be a refreshing change.
Oh, and JS will get MORE than 2 years to realize his vision. It will take 2 years to really clean up the salary cap, let alone build the roster.
RE: RE: A positive move imv  
ColHowPepper : 7/2/2022 5:00 pm : link
In comment 15746215 Optimus-NY said:
Quote:
...Don't forget the Tisches. I give them more credit for all of the positive organizational changes we've seen than I do the Maras. They do won 50 percent of the team.

And to this point (and your points of view in this thread with which I agree), let's not forget Steve Tisch's much reported statement, I think at season's end--am surprised it hasn't been brought up: in essence he said, in utter frustration: how the f... does the franchise still find itself in this position? Even if unspoken, the clear implication was that he had had enough of business as usual. To be clear, he was decorous, but outraged.
If anyone’s interested  
Biteymax22 : 7/2/2022 5:31 pm : link
I put a poll up in the Giants Twitter Community yesterday which basically asked “significant or not”. 75% felt the move was significant with 91 responses.


Offering my own opinion, we’ve sure sucked since he was elevated to VP of Player Personnel. Even if he didn’t actually do anything this could open up the door to bring a real VP in which would impact the organization if we get someone good. Its a big move to me.
Well hopefully Chris shines in his new role as a personnel consultant.  
Jimmy Googs : 7/2/2022 6:25 pm : link
I am certain you all will be able to tell the difference if and when the personnel decisions start getting better. It will have very little to do with Schoen taking over for Gettleman, and be mostly about this title change...
RE: RE: Optimus - NY...  
Optimus-NY : 7/2/2022 8:05 pm : link
In comment 15746432 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 15746420 bw in dc said:


Quote:


Kudos to some very good posts on this topic.



Conspiracy theories are always fun topics. I like when the unknown turns into the dark side with some posters, and I know you like the action too from that viewpoint.

But while incompetence ran rampart for years in that bldg, this one I can’t subscribe to. But happy to listen to in case someone figures out that Booth and Oswald really didn’t do it.

:- )


Facts aren't conspiracy theories you mongo.
RE: Optimus - NY...  
Optimus-NY : 7/2/2022 8:40 pm : link
In comment 15746420 bw in dc said:
Quote:
Kudos to some very good posts on this topic.


Kudos to you too bw in dc. I read a lot of posts in the other archived thread I linked, with yours being excellent and uber informative. I really liked this one:




Archived Thread Sirius now- Weis is PISSED about the Schwartz(BBI Mentioned) jvm52106 : 1/13/2022 10:13 am - ( New Window )
Haha...keeping it real  
Jimmy Googs : 7/2/2022 9:10 pm : link
Go look at some of the posts, including you all, put up on this very topic of Chris’ role and title around 2pm in that thread you just linked. Sorry but it’s the exact opposite of what has occurred and actually the title of this thread. Kind of funny really.

Christian and a few others (ahem) hitting the marks though if care to read it a bit more carefully.

Good night, maybe you’ll have something more compelling tomorrow...

RE: RE: RE: Optimus - NY...  
Jimmy Googs : 7/2/2022 9:18 pm : link
In comment 15746519 Optimus-NY said:
Quote:
In comment 15746432 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


In comment 15746420 bw in dc said:


Quote:


Kudos to some very good posts on this topic.



Conspiracy theories are always fun topics. I like when the unknown turns into the dark side with some posters, and I know you like the action too from that viewpoint.

But while incompetence ran rampart for years in that bldg, this one I can’t subscribe to. But happy to listen to in case someone figures out that Booth and Oswald really didn’t do it.

:- )



Facts aren't conspiracy theories you mongo.


Maybe list your best facts on this topic. Happy to debate every one of them.

May want to lose the mongo thing as well...not a good look. Just sayin’...
RE: RE: Optimus - NY...  
bw in dc : 7/2/2022 9:27 pm : link
In comment 15746432 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 15746420 bw in dc said:


Quote:


Kudos to some very good posts on this topic.



Conspiracy theories are always fun topics. I like when the unknown turns into the dark side with some posters, and I know you like the action too from that viewpoint.

But while incompetence ran rampart for years in that bldg, this one I can’t subscribe to. But happy to listen to in case someone figures out that Booth and Oswald really didn’t do it.

:- )


You and I are always good, Googs.

But I think there was a grassy knoll at Jints Central the last decade and Chris Mara was very likely the other decision maker behind it... ;)
Chris said let’s screw up investing in the OL and  
Jimmy Googs : 7/2/2022 9:36 pm : link
orchestrated all those career ending injuries to starters, kept Eli in place too long, and panicked come draft day?

That son of a bitch...
I doubt anyone orchestrated injuries.  
fkap : 7/3/2022 8:49 am : link
So that dumb comment aside, it is obvious that Giants personnel management has been suspect. No one is saying CM is the sole problem. A lot of people are saying it is likely he is (or was) part of the problem, perhaps a large part of it.

To be fair, a lot of people allege he just had an empty title.

CM has a history of being involved in scouting, in wanting to be a GM, in wanting to have a say/be part of the decision making, of having the ear of his brother John. The only evidence that he gave up that quest is that he has horses.
Didn’t read through the thread given how familiar we are  
Big Blue '56 : 7/3/2022 10:07 am : link
with CM comments through the years.

My opinion is simply this: Though he has some culpability I imagine, he is far from the major reason we have sucked so bad for most of the last 10 years. I am aware of the feelings the “Mara” name has conjured up and continues to conjure up, but I never felt his influence was anything to worry about and certainly not a “franchise killer.”
This is my all time favorite thread  
arniefez : 7/4/2022 4:02 pm : link
since I've been reading and posting on BBI. I never thought I would see the day that Chris Mara would be removed from the personnel department. It took 10 years of the Sons of Wellington proving to the NFL that the 1970's were no fluke and that the apple landed at the foot of tree but it's happened and I'm hoping that like 1979 lightning can strike twice in the swamps of Jersey.

I respect BB56's opinions although a lot of times we're on the opposite side of the discussions. On this one we are 100% on the opposite side of the discussion.

IMO John & Chris Mara are W/L franchise killers when they are GMing unchecked like they have been since 2012.

It's also my opinion John Mara had every intention of bringing Joe Judge back and letting him have input into the hiring of the next GM.

It is also my opinion that Steve and possibly Jonathon Tisch stepped in and stepped up and forced the Mara brothers to fire Judge and forced them to recruit the best and the brightest available coaches and GM in the NFL even if they were/are generations younger and had no or very limited ties to the Giants.

This is what Art Stapleton wrote on nj.com 1/10/22:

Quote:
Joe Judge expects to be back for a third season as the head coach of the New York Giants.

That much we know, and it's been reflected in his actions, not just in recent weeks and days, but Monday morning, when news of Dave Gettleman's exit following four losing seasons as general manager was made official with his retirement.

Firings were taking place throughout the league on "Black Monday," including a stunner in Miami with the Dolphins parting ways with Brian Flores.

Yet Judge, despite persistent speculation within the last 24 hours that he'd be dismissed, came to 1925 Giants Drive and kept on doing his job, which began with closing the book on a season that fell way short of expectations with an eye on coming up with a plan to make sure this next one with Big Blue does not follow the same path.

There's more of a feeling inside the organization, because of the way Judge was allowed to operate Monday, that he will be retained. But no final decision has been made, and there are still important discussions to be had that could result in change.


And then Steve Tisch flew to NJ, met with John Mara and then with John Mara and Joe Judge and then John Mara met with Judge alone and then Joe Judge was fired. I don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.
So you came to a point that you never thought you would.  
Jimmy Googs : 7/4/2022 10:05 pm : link
The Giants and Mara surprised you and many others because they hit rock bottom and decided to change their stripes and titles.

No need for conspiracy theories?

Or are more coming. .
RE: This is my all time favorite thread  
Optimus-NY : 7/5/2022 1:18 pm : link
In comment 15747133 arniefez said:
Quote:
since I've been reading and posting on BBI. I never thought I would see the day that Chris Mara would be removed from the personnel department. It took 10 years of the Sons of Wellington proving to the NFL that the 1970's were no fluke and that the apple landed at the foot of tree but it's happened and I'm hoping that like 1979 lightning can strike twice in the swamps of Jersey.

I respect BB56's opinions although a lot of times we're on the opposite side of the discussions. On this one we are 100% on the opposite side of the discussion.

IMO John & Chris Mara are W/L franchise killers when they are GMing unchecked like they have been since 2012.

It's also my opinion John Mara had every intention of bringing Joe Judge back and letting him have input into the hiring of the next GM.

It is also my opinion that Steve and possibly Jonathon Tisch stepped in and stepped up and forced the Mara brothers to fire Judge and forced them to recruit the best and the brightest available coaches and GM in the NFL even if they were/are generations younger and had no or very limited ties to the Giants.

This is what Art Stapleton wrote on nj.com 1/10/22:



Quote:


Joe Judge expects to be back for a third season as the head coach of the New York Giants.

That much we know, and it's been reflected in his actions, not just in recent weeks and days, but Monday morning, when news of Dave Gettleman's exit following four losing seasons as general manager was made official with his retirement.

Firings were taking place throughout the league on "Black Monday," including a stunner in Miami with the Dolphins parting ways with Brian Flores.

Yet Judge, despite persistent speculation within the last 24 hours that he'd be dismissed, came to 1925 Giants Drive and kept on doing his job, which began with closing the book on a season that fell way short of expectations with an eye on coming up with a plan to make sure this next one with Big Blue does not follow the same path.

There's more of a feeling inside the organization, because of the way Judge was allowed to operate Monday, that he will be retained. But no final decision has been made, and there are still important discussions to be had that could result in change.



And then Steve Tisch flew to NJ, met with John Mara and then with John Mara and Joe Judge and then John Mara met with Judge alone and then Joe Judge was fired. I don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.


I agree. The sons of Squint have carried on their dad's tradition. I cringed whenever John John made those "Jerrel Jernigan needs to play more comments". No wonder Tom Coughlin refused to shake JM's hand when he was told to "retire". Here are some good posts form an archived thread (linked at the bottom):



Here's another...




More...


More...


More...


More...







Archived Thread Chad Forbes calls out CHRIS MARA as the problem - FStubbs: 11/23/2021 - 1:24 pm - ( New Window )
RE: This is my all time favorite thread  
Mike in NY : 7/5/2022 1:32 pm : link
In comment 15747133 arniefez said:
Quote:
since I've been reading and posting on BBI. I never thought I would see the day that Chris Mara would be removed from the personnel department. It took 10 years of the Sons of Wellington proving to the NFL that the 1970's were no fluke and that the apple landed at the foot of tree but it's happened and I'm hoping that like 1979 lightning can strike twice in the swamps of Jersey.

I respect BB56's opinions although a lot of times we're on the opposite side of the discussions. On this one we are 100% on the opposite side of the discussion.

IMO John & Chris Mara are W/L franchise killers when they are GMing unchecked like they have been since 2012.

It's also my opinion John Mara had every intention of bringing Joe Judge back and letting him have input into the hiring of the next GM.

It is also my opinion that Steve and possibly Jonathon Tisch stepped in and stepped up and forced the Mara brothers to fire Judge and forced them to recruit the best and the brightest available coaches and GM in the NFL even if they were/are generations younger and had no or very limited ties to the Giants.

This is what Art Stapleton wrote on nj.com 1/10/22:



Quote:


Joe Judge expects to be back for a third season as the head coach of the New York Giants.

That much we know, and it's been reflected in his actions, not just in recent weeks and days, but Monday morning, when news of Dave Gettleman's exit following four losing seasons as general manager was made official with his retirement.

Firings were taking place throughout the league on "Black Monday," including a stunner in Miami with the Dolphins parting ways with Brian Flores.

Yet Judge, despite persistent speculation within the last 24 hours that he'd be dismissed, came to 1925 Giants Drive and kept on doing his job, which began with closing the book on a season that fell way short of expectations with an eye on coming up with a plan to make sure this next one with Big Blue does not follow the same path.

There's more of a feeling inside the organization, because of the way Judge was allowed to operate Monday, that he will be retained. But no final decision has been made, and there are still important discussions to be had that could result in change.



And then Steve Tisch flew to NJ, met with John Mara and then with John Mara and Joe Judge and then John Mara met with Judge alone and then Joe Judge was fired. I don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.


It is not like they went completely off the radar here. Joe Schoen had the backing of Bill Parcells and Brian Daboll has New England/Alabama ties. Even Don "Wink" Martindale was a consideration for Head Coach before the job went to Joe Judge. I think Tisch's presence got Poles and the SF guy a shot at impressing Mara and also got Mara to let the GM decide on Head Coach not the other way around. Had Tisch not been involved the finalist list for GM would probably have been Abrams, one of the Tennessee guys who were formerly in New England, and a token minority.
Mike in NY - How ya doin man?  
Optimus-NY : 7/5/2022 1:38 pm : link
Miss our BBI Mock Draft threads. Hope all's well :-)

I fully agree about the Tisch factor. They are needed to counterbalance the "Mara Effect."
Davis Webb and Chris Mara  
Optimus-NY : 7/5/2022 2:22 pm : link
Here's a link to another archived thread (see bottom) with some interesting discussion going on about this same subject. Here are some interesting snippets from the thread:

Davis Webb was Chris Mara's pick...

...



I agree with arniefez's point about Mara Tech here too...


More...


Mara Tech run by committee...



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CM and Russell Okung in Free Agency...

[url=https://www.reddit.com/r/NYGiants/comments/rm9zyo/its_worse_than_we_thought/]The Official Subreddit of The New York Football Giants - Posted by Danny Dimes
u/CruzControls - 7 months ago - It’s worse than we thought.[/url]
Petty Giants Exec Sabotaged Signing of 2-Time Pro Bowler: Report - Heavy.com | By Vinny Somma - Updated on Dec. 26, 2021 at 2:28pm


(Archived Thread) Chris Canty and Chris Mara - Breaker: 12/7/2021 - 8:03 am - ( New Window )
Boo Boo with the subreddit link  
Optimus-NY : 7/5/2022 2:46 pm : link
The Official Subreddit of The New York Football Giants - Posted by Danny Dimes - u/CruzControls - 7 months ago - It’s worse than we thought.
RE: Mike in NY - How ya doin man?  
Mike in NY : 7/5/2022 3:11 pm : link
In comment 15747496 Optimus-NY said:
Quote:
Miss our BBI Mock Draft threads. Hope all's well :-)

I fully agree about the Tisch factor. They are needed to counterbalance the "Mara Effect."


Doing well and quite busy between work and looking for work as I think I have maxed out at my current position and there are dynamics in play that I don't want to be part of long term.
RE: RE: Mike in NY - How ya doin man?  
Optimus-NY : 7/5/2022 3:18 pm : link
In comment 15747541 Mike in NY said:
Quote:
In comment 15747496 Optimus-NY said:


Quote:


Miss our BBI Mock Draft threads. Hope all's well :-)

I fully agree about the Tisch factor. They are needed to counterbalance the "Mara Effect."



Doing well and quite busy between work and looking for work as I think I have maxed out at my current position and there are dynamics in play that I don't want to be part of long term.


I hear you my friend. That was me earlier this academic year where I was teaching. I opted out. Some of my colleagues did the same as me as we all saw the writing on the wall. Hang in there and maintain your sanity and mental well-being above all else.
Jerry in DC's post summed things up well in the linked archived thread  
Optimus-NY : 7/5/2022 4:03 pm : link



(Archived Thread) Chris Canty and Chris Mara - Breaker: 12/7/2021 - 8:03 am - ( New Window )
Another interesting excerpt from a piece detailing  
Optimus-NY : 7/5/2022 4:55 pm : link
the Giants' dysfunction...






The Autopsy, Part I: How it all got so bad, so fast for the New York Giants - goLongTD.com | by Tyler Dunne - Dec 21, 2021 - ( New Window )
RE: Another interesting excerpt from a piece detailing  
Jimmy Googs : 7/5/2022 5:07 pm : link
In comment 15747604 Optimus-NY said:
Quote:
the Giants' dysfunction...




The Autopsy, Part I: How it all got so bad, so fast for the New York Giants - goLongTD.com | by Tyler Dunne - Dec 21, 2021 - ( New Window )


Great article. I agree with so much of it that I almost feel they took a bunch of it from my posts over the past several years. Especially like how Chris Mara is barely mentioned amongst all that dysfunction. Almost like it was happening anyway, whether he was in the bldg or not...

:- )

I remembered this from 2017...  
bw in dc : 7/5/2022 5:33 pm : link
after JMara cleaned house - firing Reese and McAdoo - with four games to go.

From NJ.com:

Quote:
It's obvious that Mara's brother, Chris, who has been the team's senior vice president of player personnel since 2011, will remain in the front office.

But John Mara said that his brother is not in the running to replace Reese.

"He does not want to be a candidate, I don't think, for the full-time position," John Mara said during an interview with Mike Francesa on WFAN. "His input is certainly going to be something that is very crucial to the final decision."


Just 4.5 short years ago, John was saying Chris did not want to be a GM candidate - not John, btw - and that getting Chris's opinion on the new GM was "very crucial".

Is it such a stretch, then, to see John valuing his SVP/PP's input on the draft and free agency as equally "crucial"?

I'm glad that it seems on cyber-paper that Chris's role has been reduced by a much lighter title. But I really hope the change was driven by Schoen and his realization that Chris wasn't fit for the role...

Yeah, I think John garnering his brothers opinion on hiring a GM  
Jimmy Googs : 7/5/2022 5:41 pm : link
is actually world’s apart from asking him to provide his “valuable” input on player personnel decisions that he leaves up to the GM.

John may respect Chris’ opinion because he’s his brother, but that doesn’t mean the non-family GM has to. Especially since John was pretty clear how all of scouting and personnel are the responsibility of the GM...
RE: Yeah, I think John garnering his brothers opinion on hiring a GM  
Mike in NY : 7/5/2022 5:44 pm : link
In comment 15747629 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
is actually world’s apart from asking him to provide his “valuable” input on player personnel decisions that he leaves up to the GM.

John may respect Chris’ opinion because he’s his brother, but that doesn’t mean the non-family GM has to. Especially since John was pretty clear how all of scouting and personnel are the responsibility of the GM...


What benefit is there for Chris to give a fair assessment about a GM candidate who wants his personnel role to be as minimal as possible. At least Abrams fell on his sword.
RE: RE: Yeah, I think John garnering his brothers opinion on hiring a GM  
Jimmy Googs : 7/5/2022 5:49 pm : link
In comment 15747631 Mike in NY said:
Quote:
In comment 15747629 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


is actually world’s apart from asking him to provide his “valuable” input on player personnel decisions that he leaves up to the GM.

John may respect Chris’ opinion because he’s his brother, but that doesn’t mean the non-family GM has to. Especially since John was pretty clear how all of scouting and personnel are the responsibility of the GM...



What benefit is there for Chris to give a fair assessment about a GM candidate who wants his personnel role to be as minimal as possible. At least Abrams fell on his sword.


His personnel role is minimal as possible no matter the GM. Chris can spend as much time or as little time as he wants with it...nobody wants it or needs it anyway...
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