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Our best ever OC in your lifetime?

Big Blue '56 : 7/3/2022 8:22 am
Lombardi came to mind first, but our O was no great shakes until Tittle arrived and by then Lombardi was gone 2 years before. Allie was basically our OC and the O thrived, but we also had a ton of talent on that side of the ball..

Under Simms we had Earhardt and he did well, even as conservative as he could be..

Though I had on and off issues with Gilbride, he’s my nominee for the best OC in my lifetime..

You?
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Of course they never  
CMicks3110 : 7/3/2022 9:36 am : link
Had the o-line Gilbride worked with. Which goes to show you even more how important the oline is.
Killdrive  
Blueworm : 7/3/2022 9:50 am : link
The number of times he was called that around here -I'm sure someone can find it easily.

Context, or nostalgia?

I guess Gilbride on the whole...  
sb from NYT Forum : 7/3/2022 10:00 am : link
...but boy were there some real stinkers.

Like the December Washington game when he had Eli throwing into the wind 57 times.... oooff.
 
christian : 7/3/2022 10:02 am : link
I think it’s Sherman, and not really close.

Under Sherman as OC then HC/OC the Giants were perennial top 5 offensive teams and went to the championship game 5/6 years.

Sherman was an offense visionary, and his motion offense was well ahead of its time. Much of what the AFL and NFL eventually became was because of Sherman.

If Tittle and Gifford don’t get injured at critical times, the Giants would have at least another title and Sherman would get more credit.
Sean Peyton  
WillieYoung : 7/3/2022 10:04 am : link
He got the most out of what he had to work with.
Ron Erhardt  
Scott in Montreal : 7/3/2022 10:08 am : link
Should be in this discussion.

Won two Superbowls. One with his back up. His offence was grind out and boring but it was the right system for the time.

If Landetta does not flub his punt and there is no strike in 1987. Who knows how many more he may have won as OC.
I'd go with Gillbride. I hope Kafka can surpass him  
Ira : 7/3/2022 10:09 am : link
.
RE: …  
Big Blue '56 : 7/3/2022 10:11 am : link
In comment 15746635 christian said:
Quote:
I think it’s Sherman, and not really close.

Under Sherman as OC then HC/OC the Giants were perennial top 5 offensive teams and went to the championship game 5/6 years.

Sherman was an offense visionary, and his motion offense was well ahead of its time. Much of what the AFL and NFL eventually became was because of Sherman.

If Tittle and Gifford don’t get injured at critical times, the Giants would have at least another title and Sherman would get more credit.


Excellent points about Sherman
 
christian : 7/3/2022 10:35 am : link
The 63 Giants scored more points than any Giants team in history in just 14 games. The 62 Giants scored more points than 4 Super Bowl champions in just 14 games.

Sherman gets a raw deal in history because of Landry and Lombardi I think.
Of the ones I watched  
Johnny5 : 7/3/2022 11:13 am : link
It's Gilbride
RE: …  
Big Blue '56 : 7/3/2022 11:28 am : link
In comment 15746656 christian said:
Quote:
The 63 Giants scored more points than any Giants team in history in just 14 games. The 62 Giants scored more points than 4 Super Bowl champions in just 14 games.

Sherman gets a raw deal in history because of Landry and Lombardi I think.


Think about this: In an era where 15, MAYBE 20 TD passes were considered to be a solid year, Tittle threw 33 and 36 TDs in just 14 games.

Btw, Yat had a great arm, but he was the best screen passer I have ever seen
And DC  
thrunthrublue : 7/3/2022 11:31 am : link
Belichick.
I think its Ally Sherman, by a mile  
David B. : 7/3/2022 11:31 am : link
But he wasn't in my lifetime.

Erhardt during the Parcells years was all about running the ball. The TE was the best receiver Simms ever had. even in 86, the passing game was dismal in the first half of the year. Erhardt was effective, but no Bill Walsh.

Gilbride was better than Erhardt, but I would never say the Giants had an explosive offense under him. Not the way SF and other teams had explosive offenses.

We may get more of that with Daboll and Kafka.
RE: I think its Ally Sherman, by a mile  
Big Blue '56 : 7/3/2022 11:34 am : link
In comment 15746689 David B. said:
Quote:
But he wasn't in my lifetime.

Erhardt during the Parcells years was all about running the ball. The TE was the best receiver Simms ever had. even in 86, the passing game was dismal in the first half of the year. Erhardt was effective, but no Bill Walsh.

Gilbride was better than Erhardt, but I would never say the Giants had an explosive offense under him. Not the way SF and other teams had explosive offenses.



We may get more of that with Daboll and Kafka.


I expect that..🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞
I'm leaning Erhardt  
Lines of Scrimmage : 7/3/2022 12:05 pm : link
I think he had a lot more say in the offense and really it is his offense with Perkins that still has a big influence in today's league. The so called Perkins/Erhardt system they brought to the Giants from the Patriots. BB has been running it for the last 20 years.

Gilbride was outstanding but I think TC was very much involved with it as he was also a outstanding offensive coach himself.

RE: RE: Different offensive skillsets  
81_Great_Dane : 7/3/2022 12:26 pm : link
In comment 15746597 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 15746590 Big Blue '56 said:


Quote:


and nothing more than speculative at best, but does Simms become a HOFer had he had Gilbride as OC, iyo?



No because Bill Parcels had an offensive strategy of preventing turnovers. He was truly 3 yards and a cloud of dust coach. He was a defensive minded coach who wanted to win the field position game, dominate on the ground and grind the opposition into the turf.
Mostly but not entirely; there’s the famous anecdote about Parcells telling Simms “If you don’t throw two interceptions today you’re not taking enough chances.” In that era, the Giants’ defense was so good, and so trustworthy, the offense could take risks with downfield passing. I don’t think it’s even possible to be that consistent on D under the current rules.

Parcells didn’t so much mind interceptions on deep throws, which he viewed as being like a punt. He HATED fumbles, which flip field position.
It's funny...  
JohnG in Albany : 7/3/2022 12:29 pm : link
Good OC's tend to happen along with good OL's. *grin*
Gilbride  
upnyg : 7/3/2022 2:25 pm : link
but everyone crapped on him after OL went bad.
The only issues I had with Gilbride were  
robbieballs2003 : 7/3/2022 4:06 pm : link
The complexity of his system and his inability to be flexible. We know the positives of course but the negatives were bad. When Plax was injured/suspended, we thought Hixon would be able to fill in to his role. Huge mistake. We knew Plax wasn't replaceable but that is where, as a coach, you have to adapt. Injuries happen. You have to have a plan. The complexity was tough. No team in the NFL was anywhere near as complex as what we ran. When it clicked, we won super bowls. When it didn't, we had people calling for Jared Lorenzen over Eli. There were a lot more bad games than good games under Gilbride but the good ones were great.
Erhardt,  
BigBlueinDE : 7/3/2022 4:49 pm : link
Payton and Fassel.
RE: Erhardt,  
BigBlueinDE : 7/3/2022 4:50 pm : link
In comment 15746855 BigBlueinDE said:
Quote:
Payton and Fassel.


Forgot to add Gilbride.
KG  
Tim in Eternal Blue : 7/3/2022 8:05 pm : link

And to a lesser extent Jim Fassel. That 2000 squad was one of my favorite offenses the Giants had. And had we not screwed the pooch against SF... That 2002 crew was really fun to watch too.
Allie Sherman and Lombardi both had Charlie Conerly as QB and they  
plato : 7/3/2022 11:54 pm : link
were the greatest. It was just the beginning of multiple coaches and the OC was known as backfield coach. Never the less these three men are the GREATS of Giant offense. Eras and styles change, they were the beginning of the T formation for NY.
RE: Allie Sherman and Lombardi both had Charlie Conerly as QB and they  
Big Blue '56 : 7/4/2022 6:37 am : link
In comment 15746938 plato said:
Quote:
were the greatest. It was just the beginning of multiple coaches and the OC was known as backfield coach. Never the less these three men are the GREATS of Giant offense. Eras and styles change, they were the beginning of the T formation for NY.


Given that I started following the Giants in 1956, I never heard the boos that cascaded down from the stands during Conerly’s earlier years, not surprising given how Mickey Mantle was booed in his earlier years once Joe D retired..
Peyton/Fassell  
George : 7/4/2022 8:25 am : link
Created some incredibly dynamic offenses. I’m going with him/them.
I’ll go with Erhardt, narrowly.  
Big Blue Blogger : 7/4/2022 8:35 am : link
If you look at his full body of work, including New England and his early years with the Giants, there was more to his offense than OJ Anderson banging away for three yards.

Gilbride is complicated. After San Diego and Buffalo, his stock was so low that he had to rebuild his reputation as Coughlin’s QB coach under Hufnagel. And the three years he was in that job, Eli wasn’t very good despite the occasional awesome flashes. Manning made his greatest strides with Gilbride as OC, but also with Chris Palmer as his position coach. Hard to know how to apportion credit and blame. We do know that the offense collapsed when the line and receivers were decimated by age and injuries.
RE: …  
Snablats : 7/4/2022 10:58 am : link
In comment 15746635 christian said:
Quote:
I think it’s Sherman, and not really close.

Under Sherman as OC then HC/OC the Giants were perennial top 5 offensive teams and went to the championship game 5/6 years.

Sherman was an offense visionary, and his motion offense was well ahead of its time. Much of what the AFL and NFL eventually became was because of Sherman.

If Tittle and Gifford don’t get injured at critical times, the Giants would have at least another title and Sherman would get more credit.

The question posed here is the greatest offensive coordinator in your lifetime. Your profile says you became a Giants fan in 1990, so why are you talking about the early 60s when you never saw it?
RE: RE: …  
christian : 7/4/2022 11:06 am : link
In comment 15747011 Snablats said:
Quote:
In comment 15746635 christian said:


Quote:


I think it’s Sherman, and not really close.

Under Sherman as OC then HC/OC the Giants were perennial top 5 offensive teams and went to the championship game 5/6 years.

Sherman was an offense visionary, and his motion offense was well ahead of its time. Much of what the AFL and NFL eventually became was because of Sherman.

If Tittle and Gifford don’t get injured at critical times, the Giants would have at least another title and Sherman would get more credit.


The question posed here is the greatest offensive coordinator in your lifetime. Your profile says you became a Giants fan in 1990, so why are you talking about the early 60s when you never saw it?


Oh zing. You really got me this time, doofus.
So answer the question  
Snablats : 7/4/2022 11:10 am : link
.
...  
christian : 7/4/2022 11:23 am : link
Really think about this.

You woke up on the 4th of July, went through a thread, of which you've made no substantive contribution (per usual).

And you thought, oh snap BBIer poster Christian answered the question slightly different than Bruce (his long time BBI friend a great guy) asked.

Like I said. You really got me. If you send me a self-addressed stamped envelope I'll send you a cutout construction paper crown so you coronate yourself King Doofus.
I asked a simple question  
Snablats : 7/4/2022 11:32 am : link
And you go off on a ridiculous diatribe
Probably ...  
FStubbs : 7/4/2022 11:42 am : link
Sean Payton.

He got an offense with Kerry Collins at QB to the Superbowl.
RE: I asked a simple question  
christian : 7/4/2022 11:43 am : link
In comment 15747030 Snablats said:
Quote:
And you go off on a ridiculous diatribe


so why are you talking about the early 60s when you never saw it?

Have I not answered your question thoroughly enough doofus?
So you became a Giants fan in 1990  
Snablats : 7/4/2022 11:52 am : link
But you were watching the Giants in the early '60s?
RE: So you became a Giants fan in 1990  
christian : 7/4/2022 12:07 pm : link
In comment 15747040 Snablats said:
Quote:
But you were watching the Giants in the early '60s?

Like I said Columbo, you got me. I answered the question with a coordinator before my lifetime. The horror. The agony. The embarrassment.

I really do mean it. I'll send you the doofus crown. It's a holiday, so I'll even pony up for the shipping.
Why are you always so defensive?  
Snablats : 7/4/2022 12:16 pm : link
It was a fair question to ask. You get really defensive when someone questions things you say

...  
christian : 7/4/2022 12:41 pm : link
Oh don't take it so seriously doofus. I'm just giving you a hard time for coming onto a football thread and offering absolutely zero football contribution. Never change amigo.
If you go by points scored per season  
djm : 7/4/2022 3:21 pm : link
Eli and gilbride are the gold standard when it comes to the QB and OC.
RE: If you go by points scored per season  
Big Blue '56 : 7/4/2022 3:25 pm : link
In comment 15747115 djm said:
Quote:
Eli and gilbride are the gold standard when it comes to the QB and OC.


Until Plax Eli/KG were “magic,” at times, imv
...  
christian : 7/4/2022 6:29 pm : link
The offense that gets big time underrated is the 2012 team.

I think everyone knows my feelings that losing Burress gets a little mythologised.

I think the bigger *if only* is Nicks getting hurt in 2012. He was blossoming into the best WR in the NFL. That week 2 game against Tampa was ridiculous. Nicks gutted it out and came back later in the year, but was never the same player again.

The Giants defense was also pretty respectable in 2012. That's the one I think got away.
chrisitan.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 7/4/2022 6:36 pm : link
That '12 team-and the organization @ large for the most part-has never been the same since Hurricane Sandy. We were 6-2 & ended up going 3-5 the rest of the way, with a killer loss to WFT in DC on a Monday night.
...  
christian : 7/4/2022 7:32 pm : link
That loss to Washington was so frustrating. The Giants had a couple shots in the 4th quarter to take the lead but couldn't get in field goal range.

I thought that was going to be the beginning of a real nightmare with RG3.

But the game that really sticks out to me is the Falcons game. It was like every bit of magic from the championship teams was gone. I would have never expected in a million years the Giants to get rocked like that.
chrisitan.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 7/4/2022 7:37 pm : link
Wasn't Eli picked on the first play of the game in that Falcons game? I remember that game was over before I finished my second beer. And the next week was the Ravens kicking our ass.
...  
christian : 7/4/2022 9:33 pm : link
After that Atlanta game Coughlin said something to the effect of "They were very, very good and we were very, very bad."

They got wrecked in that game, and it felt like the end of an era where you expected the Giants to turn it on when it mattered.
The early TC/Gilbride  
Lines of Scrimmage : 7/5/2022 9:47 am : link
offenses were defined by balance. Eli always had the option to run/pass based on the defense and in early years they could make you make both ways.

2011 was a changing and they had a advanced cerebral QB and a highly talented group of WR's (led by Nicks) to impact defenses. When he was hurt they really struggled.

Ultimately the biggest thing that impacted TC/Gilbride was the offense lost the inability to impact the game physically caused by the OL/TE group. We have trying to recover the edge for ten years imv.
That’s easy  
King Quis : 7/5/2022 4:40 pm : link
Sean Payton.
RE: RE: …  
Jimmy Googs : 7/5/2022 6:32 pm : link
In comment 15747011 Snablats said:
Quote:
In comment 15746635 christian said:


Quote:


I think it’s Sherman, and not really close.

Under Sherman as OC then HC/OC the Giants were perennial top 5 offensive teams and went to the championship game 5/6 years.

Sherman was an offense visionary, and his motion offense was well ahead of its time. Much of what the AFL and NFL eventually became was because of Sherman.

If Tittle and Gifford don’t get injured at critical times, the Giants would have at least another title and Sherman would get more credit.


The question posed here is the greatest offensive coordinator in your lifetime. Your profile says you became a Giants fan in 1990, so why are you talking about the early 60s when you never saw it?


Yeah, this sounds just like what a poster would say after being on BBI years before but hardly ever posting.

Jan 2022 is a good time to revive such strong in-depth commentary you bring to the table as the call-out post above...
...  
christian : 7/5/2022 7:19 pm : link
Pointing out I slightly mis-answered BB56's question must have been extremely satisfying.

BB56's sensibilities were so offended ... he and I then had a nice exchange about football.

I'm the worst.
Snablats isn’t really backwards for St Albans  
Jimmy Googs : 7/5/2022 7:45 pm : link
it’s code for chucklehead...
What I always admired about Norv Turner was that  
Big Blue '56 : 7/7/2022 9:42 am : link
when he did have meh QBs (Yes he had Aikman) he was often able to get the best out of them as I saw it.
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