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Our best ever OC in your lifetime?

Big Blue '56 : 7/3/2022 8:22 am
Lombardi came to mind first, but our O was no great shakes until Tittle arrived and by then Lombardi was gone 2 years before. Allie was basically our OC and the O thrived, but we also had a ton of talent on that side of the ball..

Under Simms we had Earhardt and he did well, even as conservative as he could be..

Though I had on and off issues with Gilbride, he’s my nominee for the best OC in my lifetime..

You?
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Who knows,  
Big Blue '56 : 7/3/2022 8:22 am : link
maybe Kafka could turn out to be..😎
Gilbride  
Giants : 7/3/2022 8:34 am : link
Lots of fans at some point had troubles with him. Its life as a NFL coach. Gilbride was the best they ever had
RE: Gilbride  
Big Blue '56 : 7/3/2022 8:36 am : link
In comment 15746584 Giants said:
Quote:
Lots of fans at some point had troubles with him. Its life as a NFL coach. Gilbride was the best they ever had


Eli thrived with him imv
No doubt  
section125 : 7/3/2022 8:37 am : link
Kevin Gilbride.
Different offensive skillsets  
Big Blue '56 : 7/3/2022 8:44 am : link
and nothing more than speculative at best, but does Simms become a HOFer had he had Gilbride as OC, iyo?
Gilbride  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 7/3/2022 8:45 am : link
.
Sorry Josh  
Joey in VA : 7/3/2022 8:50 am : link
It's Gilbride.
Can't really think of anyone else but Gilbride  
Angel Eyes : 7/3/2022 8:54 am : link
.
RE: Different offensive skillsets  
section125 : 7/3/2022 8:57 am : link
In comment 15746590 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
and nothing more than speculative at best, but does Simms become a HOFer had he had Gilbride as OC, iyo?


No because Bill Parcels had an offensive strategy of preventing turnovers. He was truly 3 yards and a cloud of dust coach. He was a defensive minded coach who wanted to win the field position game, dominate on the ground and grind the opposition into the turf.
Gilbride  
US1 Giants : 7/3/2022 9:01 am : link
.
Really good question. If you judge by who did the most with the least  
Ivan15 : 7/3/2022 9:02 am : link
Talent, that really opens up a lot of choices. Everyone named had good offenses when he had players that fit. Earhardt’s offenses were good but very conservative and the talent was focused on the RBs. Gilbride’s offenses required very smart WRs and some players had a lot of trouble picking up the system.

If you want to find an OC who did a lot with not much talent, think of McAdoo after Cruz and Nicks were injured and before OBJ.
Gilbride  
Mattman : 7/3/2022 9:03 am : link
It isn’t even a question for me
Short Memories  
varco : 7/3/2022 9:05 am : link
I recall many calling Gilbride "Killdrive". Sometimes we don't appreciate what we have.
RE: RE: Different offensive skillsets  
Big Blue '56 : 7/3/2022 9:17 am : link
In comment 15746597 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 15746590 Big Blue '56 said:


Quote:


and nothing more than speculative at best, but does Simms become a HOFer had he had Gilbride as OC, iyo?



No because Bill Parcels had an offensive strategy of preventing turnovers. He was truly 3 yards and a cloud of dust coach. He was a defensive minded coach who wanted to win the field position game, dominate on the ground and grind the opposition into the turf.


Understood and yet, didn’t BP tell Phil that if you aren’t throwing INTs, you’re not throwing it enough or taking enough chances?
RE: Short Memories  
Big Blue '56 : 7/3/2022 9:18 am : link
In comment 15746603 varco said:
Quote:
I recall many calling Gilbride "Killdrive". Sometimes we don't appreciate what we have.


I ignored that. It was silly, imo..Still, many of us had issues with KG AT TIMES..
..  
Named Later : 7/3/2022 9:21 am : link
In my opinion Gilbride's Offense, with Eli at the helm and that group of savvy WR's gave NFL Defenses fits. Nicks, Cruz, Manningham and a parade of TE's in KG's Option Passing Scheme were at times 'unstoppable' as the saying goes.

If they could have kept that WR crew healthy...Eli would have astounding passing numbers.
Easy, Kevin Gilbride......  
Simms11 : 7/3/2022 9:23 am : link
unfortunately, he became the scapegoat after the last Super Bowl. I’m wondering if the offense would have gotten better if he didn’t retire?!
Kinda sad...  
AG5686 : 7/3/2022 9:27 am : link
That it's such a great question
Has to be Gillbride  
gidiefor : Mod : 7/3/2022 9:30 am : link
the Giants offense und Earhardt was not the story of that era, that story was Parcells and Belichick. I think they put up with Earhardt, and that that Offense was a tough, hard-nosed, beat em up kind of offense in the same mold as the defense. Many of our rank and file would tell you, it probably would not be successful in today's NFL.

There is definitely snatches that come out about Gillbride and what his offense was about that are really impressive in terms of it's nuances. In my view Gillbride's Offense would have been successful in the Parcells era.

So overall I have to give Gillbride the edge here.

Sean Peyton/Fassell  
CMicks3110 : 7/3/2022 9:35 am : link
Were good at times
Of course they never  
CMicks3110 : 7/3/2022 9:36 am : link
Had the o-line Gilbride worked with. Which goes to show you even more how important the oline is.
Killdrive  
Blueworm : 7/3/2022 9:50 am : link
The number of times he was called that around here -I'm sure someone can find it easily.

Context, or nostalgia?

I guess Gilbride on the whole...  
sb from NYT Forum : 7/3/2022 10:00 am : link
...but boy were there some real stinkers.

Like the December Washington game when he had Eli throwing into the wind 57 times.... oooff.
 
christian : 7/3/2022 10:02 am : link
I think it’s Sherman, and not really close.

Under Sherman as OC then HC/OC the Giants were perennial top 5 offensive teams and went to the championship game 5/6 years.

Sherman was an offense visionary, and his motion offense was well ahead of its time. Much of what the AFL and NFL eventually became was because of Sherman.

If Tittle and Gifford don’t get injured at critical times, the Giants would have at least another title and Sherman would get more credit.
Sean Peyton  
WillieYoung : 7/3/2022 10:04 am : link
He got the most out of what he had to work with.
Ron Erhardt  
Scott in Montreal : 7/3/2022 10:08 am : link
Should be in this discussion.

Won two Superbowls. One with his back up. His offence was grind out and boring but it was the right system for the time.

If Landetta does not flub his punt and there is no strike in 1987. Who knows how many more he may have won as OC.
I'd go with Gillbride. I hope Kafka can surpass him  
Ira : 7/3/2022 10:09 am : link
.
RE: …  
Big Blue '56 : 7/3/2022 10:11 am : link
In comment 15746635 christian said:
Quote:
I think it’s Sherman, and not really close.

Under Sherman as OC then HC/OC the Giants were perennial top 5 offensive teams and went to the championship game 5/6 years.

Sherman was an offense visionary, and his motion offense was well ahead of its time. Much of what the AFL and NFL eventually became was because of Sherman.

If Tittle and Gifford don’t get injured at critical times, the Giants would have at least another title and Sherman would get more credit.


Excellent points about Sherman
 
christian : 7/3/2022 10:35 am : link
The 63 Giants scored more points than any Giants team in history in just 14 games. The 62 Giants scored more points than 4 Super Bowl champions in just 14 games.

Sherman gets a raw deal in history because of Landry and Lombardi I think.
Of the ones I watched  
Johnny5 : 7/3/2022 11:13 am : link
It's Gilbride
RE: …  
Big Blue '56 : 7/3/2022 11:28 am : link
In comment 15746656 christian said:
Quote:
The 63 Giants scored more points than any Giants team in history in just 14 games. The 62 Giants scored more points than 4 Super Bowl champions in just 14 games.

Sherman gets a raw deal in history because of Landry and Lombardi I think.


Think about this: In an era where 15, MAYBE 20 TD passes were considered to be a solid year, Tittle threw 33 and 36 TDs in just 14 games.

Btw, Yat had a great arm, but he was the best screen passer I have ever seen
And DC  
thrunthrublue : 7/3/2022 11:31 am : link
Belichick.
I think its Ally Sherman, by a mile  
David B. : 7/3/2022 11:31 am : link
But he wasn't in my lifetime.

Erhardt during the Parcells years was all about running the ball. The TE was the best receiver Simms ever had. even in 86, the passing game was dismal in the first half of the year. Erhardt was effective, but no Bill Walsh.

Gilbride was better than Erhardt, but I would never say the Giants had an explosive offense under him. Not the way SF and other teams had explosive offenses.

We may get more of that with Daboll and Kafka.
RE: I think its Ally Sherman, by a mile  
Big Blue '56 : 7/3/2022 11:34 am : link
In comment 15746689 David B. said:
Quote:
But he wasn't in my lifetime.

Erhardt during the Parcells years was all about running the ball. The TE was the best receiver Simms ever had. even in 86, the passing game was dismal in the first half of the year. Erhardt was effective, but no Bill Walsh.

Gilbride was better than Erhardt, but I would never say the Giants had an explosive offense under him. Not the way SF and other teams had explosive offenses.



We may get more of that with Daboll and Kafka.


I expect that..🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞
I'm leaning Erhardt  
Lines of Scrimmage : 7/3/2022 12:05 pm : link
I think he had a lot more say in the offense and really it is his offense with Perkins that still has a big influence in today's league. The so called Perkins/Erhardt system they brought to the Giants from the Patriots. BB has been running it for the last 20 years.

Gilbride was outstanding but I think TC was very much involved with it as he was also a outstanding offensive coach himself.

RE: RE: Different offensive skillsets  
81_Great_Dane : 7/3/2022 12:26 pm : link
In comment 15746597 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 15746590 Big Blue '56 said:


Quote:


and nothing more than speculative at best, but does Simms become a HOFer had he had Gilbride as OC, iyo?



No because Bill Parcels had an offensive strategy of preventing turnovers. He was truly 3 yards and a cloud of dust coach. He was a defensive minded coach who wanted to win the field position game, dominate on the ground and grind the opposition into the turf.
Mostly but not entirely; there’s the famous anecdote about Parcells telling Simms “If you don’t throw two interceptions today you’re not taking enough chances.” In that era, the Giants’ defense was so good, and so trustworthy, the offense could take risks with downfield passing. I don’t think it’s even possible to be that consistent on D under the current rules.

Parcells didn’t so much mind interceptions on deep throws, which he viewed as being like a punt. He HATED fumbles, which flip field position.
It's funny...  
JohnG in Albany : 7/3/2022 12:29 pm : link
Good OC's tend to happen along with good OL's. *grin*
Gilbride  
upnyg : 7/3/2022 2:25 pm : link
but everyone crapped on him after OL went bad.
The only issues I had with Gilbride were  
robbieballs2003 : 7/3/2022 4:06 pm : link
The complexity of his system and his inability to be flexible. We know the positives of course but the negatives were bad. When Plax was injured/suspended, we thought Hixon would be able to fill in to his role. Huge mistake. We knew Plax wasn't replaceable but that is where, as a coach, you have to adapt. Injuries happen. You have to have a plan. The complexity was tough. No team in the NFL was anywhere near as complex as what we ran. When it clicked, we won super bowls. When it didn't, we had people calling for Jared Lorenzen over Eli. There were a lot more bad games than good games under Gilbride but the good ones were great.
Erhardt,  
BigBlueinDE : 7/3/2022 4:49 pm : link
Payton and Fassel.
RE: Erhardt,  
BigBlueinDE : 7/3/2022 4:50 pm : link
In comment 15746855 BigBlueinDE said:
Quote:
Payton and Fassel.


Forgot to add Gilbride.
KG  
Tim in Eternal Blue : 7/3/2022 8:05 pm : link

And to a lesser extent Jim Fassel. That 2000 squad was one of my favorite offenses the Giants had. And had we not screwed the pooch against SF... That 2002 crew was really fun to watch too.
Allie Sherman and Lombardi both had Charlie Conerly as QB and they  
plato : 7/3/2022 11:54 pm : link
were the greatest. It was just the beginning of multiple coaches and the OC was known as backfield coach. Never the less these three men are the GREATS of Giant offense. Eras and styles change, they were the beginning of the T formation for NY.
RE: Allie Sherman and Lombardi both had Charlie Conerly as QB and they  
Big Blue '56 : 7/4/2022 6:37 am : link
In comment 15746938 plato said:
Quote:
were the greatest. It was just the beginning of multiple coaches and the OC was known as backfield coach. Never the less these three men are the GREATS of Giant offense. Eras and styles change, they were the beginning of the T formation for NY.


Given that I started following the Giants in 1956, I never heard the boos that cascaded down from the stands during Conerly’s earlier years, not surprising given how Mickey Mantle was booed in his earlier years once Joe D retired..
Peyton/Fassell  
George : 7/4/2022 8:25 am : link
Created some incredibly dynamic offenses. I’m going with him/them.
I’ll go with Erhardt, narrowly.  
Big Blue Blogger : 7/4/2022 8:35 am : link
If you look at his full body of work, including New England and his early years with the Giants, there was more to his offense than OJ Anderson banging away for three yards.

Gilbride is complicated. After San Diego and Buffalo, his stock was so low that he had to rebuild his reputation as Coughlin’s QB coach under Hufnagel. And the three years he was in that job, Eli wasn’t very good despite the occasional awesome flashes. Manning made his greatest strides with Gilbride as OC, but also with Chris Palmer as his position coach. Hard to know how to apportion credit and blame. We do know that the offense collapsed when the line and receivers were decimated by age and injuries.
RE: …  
Snablats : 7/4/2022 10:58 am : link
In comment 15746635 christian said:
Quote:
I think it’s Sherman, and not really close.

Under Sherman as OC then HC/OC the Giants were perennial top 5 offensive teams and went to the championship game 5/6 years.

Sherman was an offense visionary, and his motion offense was well ahead of its time. Much of what the AFL and NFL eventually became was because of Sherman.

If Tittle and Gifford don’t get injured at critical times, the Giants would have at least another title and Sherman would get more credit.

The question posed here is the greatest offensive coordinator in your lifetime. Your profile says you became a Giants fan in 1990, so why are you talking about the early 60s when you never saw it?
RE: RE: …  
christian : 7/4/2022 11:06 am : link
In comment 15747011 Snablats said:
Quote:
In comment 15746635 christian said:


Quote:


I think it’s Sherman, and not really close.

Under Sherman as OC then HC/OC the Giants were perennial top 5 offensive teams and went to the championship game 5/6 years.

Sherman was an offense visionary, and his motion offense was well ahead of its time. Much of what the AFL and NFL eventually became was because of Sherman.

If Tittle and Gifford don’t get injured at critical times, the Giants would have at least another title and Sherman would get more credit.


The question posed here is the greatest offensive coordinator in your lifetime. Your profile says you became a Giants fan in 1990, so why are you talking about the early 60s when you never saw it?


Oh zing. You really got me this time, doofus.
So answer the question  
Snablats : 7/4/2022 11:10 am : link
.
...  
christian : 7/4/2022 11:23 am : link
Really think about this.

You woke up on the 4th of July, went through a thread, of which you've made no substantive contribution (per usual).

And you thought, oh snap BBIer poster Christian answered the question slightly different than Bruce (his long time BBI friend a great guy) asked.

Like I said. You really got me. If you send me a self-addressed stamped envelope I'll send you a cutout construction paper crown so you coronate yourself King Doofus.
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