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NFT: Any HR Pros Among Us?

GlANTS : 7/4/2022 8:56 am
I find myself in a troubling predicament at work. Trying to convey the situation as succinctly as possible:

I'm a long-time civilian employee at a local government job. An abrupt retirement by the person at the top last year resulted in an interim appointment to the position. This interim appointment--an older individual with an unpopular personality and methodology--put an end to a particular esteemed city program. After community backlash to this decision, the interim appointment didn't accept accountability, but rather tried pinning the blame on me for misunderstanding his directive. After being yelled at by this individual while trying to reasonably discuss the issue and being "forbidden" from escalating it to HR, I in fact went to HR. The HR investigated and sided with me.

Fast forward a few months, and the interim appointment is named permanent. Bogus investigations into fabricated scandals against me are started (but never completed) and I am assigned menial, tedious daily duties outside my job description for the sole purpose of punishing and demoralizing. I am now told in no uncertain terms that I will be fired if I go to HR in the future to complain about anything work-related. Surprisingly, HR has abandoned me. More than one co-worker has mentioned my plight in an exit interview since then, yet HR does nothing. I am told by contacts in the municipal center downtown that the big boss is disinterested and looking the other way; that he has given a mandate to the person in charge--the one who is seeking retribution against me--to do as he pleases.

BBI, short of quitting and finding another job, what are my options here? Any/all advice welcomed.
________  
I am Ninja : 7/4/2022 9:00 am : link
1. Go to HR
2. Get fired
3. Profit
Try going to the EEOC  
SCGiantsFan : 7/4/2022 9:05 am : link
It very much sounds like retaliation which is illegal.

Equal Employment Opportunity Commission.

Re: EEOC  
GlANTS : 7/4/2022 9:17 am : link
Thank you, SCGiants. I am told that EEOC is more for issues of discrimination against a protected class (women, gay, latino). Is this incorrect?

Might be time for legal advice .  
Blue21 : 7/4/2022 9:29 am : link
I wouldn't hesitate to at least talk to one. Worse comes to worse they ll get HRs attention.
Document everything  
VTChuck : 7/4/2022 9:31 am : link
Write down transcripts of all conversations / interactions

Build your case and go to HR. I doubt you'll be fired. Probably trying to get you to quit.

This is a hostile work environment  
Heisenberg : 7/4/2022 9:48 am : link
Absolutely classic case. Journal all events that have happened to date. Gather all written documents/emails that can be drummed up to support your story. Start documenting every conversation or comment that is made by your supervisor. Go to HR. The supervisor should be fired. In this case it’s HRs duty to protect the organization from legal liability. If they don’t or there is continued harassment get a lawyer and sue.

People complain about “frivolous lawsuits” but if the organization can’t rein in this manager then suing them is how you protect yourself without having to find another job.
Thank You  
GlANTS : 7/4/2022 9:59 am : link
to everyone for weighing in.

Heisenberg, for brevity I have left out many incidents that are very serious--or at least seem so to me. Absolutely a hostile work environment where I am constantly subjected to bullying--as I have gone to the HR with in the past. I get that "the HR is not the friend of the employee," as everyone at work tells me, but yet I cannot figure out why the HR knowingly looks away when so many major infractions that could lead to a law suit are permitted to transpire here. Certainly appears to be a dereliction of duty to me. I have never had a write-up or other disciplinary action against me, so I would be curious to know what their defense would be.
Document everything  
Matt M. : 7/4/2022 9:59 am : link
1) Speak to a labor attorney

2) If you have anything in writing, keep it, copy it, etc. Even work assignments. Depending on where you live, if you can record conversations, do so. The key is document everything.

3) Go to HR

4) If you get fired and/or retaliated against, you seem to have a strong case. Speak to the employee(s) who left to see if they are willing to corroborate your claims.

If you quit, you may have a case for constructive discharge.  
CooperDash : 7/4/2022 10:02 am : link
This is where an employee quits because they are being mistreated. As mentioned above, document everything. Go to HR. Follow all the steps. It’s clear that nothing is going to be done within your org to remedy this (which happens far too often) so now it’s on you to do the work.

Certainly consult with an attorney. Blaming you for something and giving you menial tasks may not be the strongest case, but forbidding you to go to HR is a big no no. So you may have something there. Sorry you are going through this and I wish you good luck with it.
RE: Thank You  
Heisenberg : 7/4/2022 10:26 am : link
In comment 15746992 GlANTS said:
Quote:
to everyone for weighing in.

Heisenberg, for brevity I have left out many incidents that are very serious--or at least seem so to me. Absolutely a hostile work environment where I am constantly subjected to bullying--as I have gone to the HR with in the past. I get that "the HR is not the friend of the employee," as everyone at work tells me, but yet I cannot figure out why the HR knowingly looks away when so many major infractions that could lead to a law suit are permitted to transpire here. Certainly appears to be a dereliction of duty to me. I have never had a write-up or other disciplinary action against me, so I would be curious to know what their defense would be.


The defense would have to be ignorance. But with documentation that defense fails. Say the words “hostile work environment “ to HR. That should set off alarm bells. It tells them you are preparing grounds for a lawsuit. Even if they want to protect the manager they really can’t because then the Org is also legally liable.
Practically speaking, you're fucked...  
trueblueinpw : 7/4/2022 11:01 am : link
FWIW, in my experience, which is entirely in the private sector, there's actually very little recourse for employment issues. It's not like on TV where there's a court and a judge and Mr. Brady throws a briefcase and everyone cheers at the end.

Lawyers cost a ton of money and that's all a huge pain in the ass anyway. The chances you're going to win a retaliation case against some kind of state agency are probably slightly less than the chances of the Giants winning the Super Bowl this coming season.

Yes, document everything and get recordings and whatever you can to build a case. But do so knowing your reason for documentation is help negotiate a good severance or mutual separation agreement.
Never forget…  
Chris in Philly : 7/4/2022 11:04 am : link
at most places HR isn’t there to protect you, they’re there to protect the company. Good luck.
Don't go to HR  
JerseyCityJoe : 7/4/2022 11:10 am : link
Stay employed. Have patience.
Record all your phone calls and meetings...  
sb from NYT Forum : 7/4/2022 11:25 am : link
...in addition to documenting them afterwords.

Maybe he'll say something bad and you can sue the hell out of the municipality when you get fired.
...  
christian : 7/4/2022 11:42 am : link
If you genuinely feel you've done nothing wrong, and feel like you're being unfairly treated, you should get a consultation with a reputable attorney.

The biggest task right now is self-reflection. Are you sure you're not part of the problem and there aren't steps you can take to be part of a equitable solution?

Really evaluate everything you've done and said. Because HR and your manager are doing this right now. Make sure you know what the other side is thinking and be prepared to tell an attorney both sides of the story. At the least this will help gameplan.

If both you and the attorney believe you have right on your side, the easiest next step, and one that solves a lot of issues -- tell HR your attorney believes you are in a hostile work environment. Tell HR you want to continue to work there are you are open to any and all ideas to help end the hostility, so everyone can back to a productive work setting.
if you work for the government  
The Jake : 7/4/2022 12:06 pm : link
you don’t just merely have a potential claim, you could also be a “whistleblower.”

that means that by going to HR, you actually acquire more protection, not less.

i would try HR again and use the buzzwords as above (eg hostile work environment, whistleblower, etc.) but also make clear that if you don’t get a satisfying response from within, you’re willing to blow the whistle on the organization by going up the chain, going public, etc.
RE: Practically speaking, you're fucked...  
Matt M. : 7/4/2022 12:26 pm : link
In comment 15747013 trueblueinpw said:
Quote:
FWIW, in my experience, which is entirely in the private sector, there's actually very little recourse for employment issues. It's not like on TV where there's a court and a judge and Mr. Brady throws a briefcase and everyone cheers at the end.

Lawyers cost a ton of money and that's all a huge pain in the ass anyway. The chances you're going to win a retaliation case against some kind of state agency are probably slightly less than the chances of the Giants winning the Super Bowl this coming season.

Yes, document everything and get recordings and whatever you can to build a case. But do so knowing your reason for documentation is help negotiate a good severance or mutual separation agreement.
I actually think the opposite, working for a gov't agency myself. First of all, there are a number of attorneys who take on a case like this similar to personal injury, where they get paid if you win. Second of all, at least in NYC, the likelihood of a settlement is decent.
RE: Never forget…  
Matt M. : 7/4/2022 12:29 pm : link
In comment 15747014 Chris in Philly said:
Quote:
at most places HR isn’t there to protect you, they’re there to protect the company. Good luck.
Very true. A visit to HR may not initially protect the employee. But, the documented event makes the company liable. He should request, in writing, the official report from HR. Ultimately, if there's a strong case, as seems to be here, protecting the employee is protecting the organization because the manager was egregiously in the wrong on multiple occasions. He has created a hostile work environment. Now, if OP is in any kind of protected class, this becomes almost a slam dunk.
A different approach with HR  
Chocco : 7/4/2022 1:01 pm : link
Instead of going down there to file a complaint/grievance ask about other opportunities or job transfers. Make it clear that you are not filing a complaint, but you are unhappy with your current position. You like where you work, you don't want to leave, are there any other opportunities out there.
Couple things, you may get a more favorable response from HR. They are usually overworked and under payed like the rest of us, they probably don't enjoy getting dragged into an ongoing battle between 2 employees. If they ask you why you are looking to leave, be objective and honest (try to keep emotion out of it). Employee retention is part of their job and is a big deal in the current work climate.

You also may actually find another opportunity out there that would allow you to stay with the same organization without having to report to the same boss.

Plus if your Boss is dumb enough to try to fire you because you went to HR. He would have to go to HR. Who already knows you didn't go down to complain against him and would just make him look even worse in their eyes.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do
RE: Never forget…  
Chocco : 7/4/2022 1:15 pm : link
In comment 15747014 Chris in Philly said:
Quote:
at most places HR isn’t there to protect you, they’re there to protect the company. Good luck.

I think the mistake people make going to HR is they think it will shine a spotlight on what they are trying to expose. In reality it will put a magnifying glass on you as well as the person/thing you are complaining about. It can be helpful in the right circumstances, but I have seen employees expose themselves just as often.
RE: Try going to the EEOC  
bradshaw44 : 7/4/2022 2:21 pm : link
In comment 15746981 SCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
It very much sounds like retaliation which is illegal.

Equal Employment Opportunity Commission.


This is exactly what I came here to suggest. Take every piece of documentation you have and present it to the EEOC.
RE: Thank You  
bradshaw44 : 7/4/2022 2:25 pm : link
In comment 15746992 GlANTS said:
Quote:
to everyone for weighing in.

Heisenberg, for brevity I have left out many incidents that are very serious--or at least seem so to me. Absolutely a hostile work environment where I am constantly subjected to bullying--as I have gone to the HR with in the past. I get that "the HR is not the friend of the employee," as everyone at work tells me, but yet I cannot figure out why the HR knowingly looks away when so many major infractions that could lead to a law suit are permitted to transpire here. Certainly appears to be a dereliction of duty to me. I have never had a write-up or other disciplinary action against me, so I would be curious to know what their defense would be.


How large is the company? What is the legal structure? I can’t tell from you OP if it’s a government agency or it is a company on a government contract. Is it and LLC, C Corp, S Corp?

Often times in smaller companies that are private, HR is managements Iron curtain.
Are you good at your job?  
pjcas18 : 7/4/2022 2:40 pm : link
do you have a good network?

sure, you could follow all the advice on here (some of it very bad) and get nowhere or say you do sue your company or report something with the EEOC - to what end? I don't see any way it ends well for you staying there following most of the advice on here.

It's such a hot job market right now (for job seekers) in many fields why not at least see if there is something better out there.

relationship with your manager is always a top 5 reason people leave jobs (sometimes it comes it at #1). Some people often even view employment as you work for your manager not your company because they're the ones who have the most impact on your career.

lastly, I have to ask and I don't mean it disrespectfully in any way, just curious - are you a millennial or Gen Z?

Just trying to gauge your age and some observations I anecdotally have about younger generations at work


Thank You Again  
GlANTS : 7/4/2022 3:32 pm : link
for your collective opinions and insights.

To answer a few questions:

This is a local government agency.

I am neither a Millennial nor Gen Z: I am older. It's coming up on 10 years working here, and I take pride in doing a thorough job. You are absolutely correct to suspect that some internet guy here on BBI is only telling you one side of the story, but again, I have never been written up or otherwise reprimanded. Not long before the incident in question occurred, I was praised by the person in charge who made a point of seeking me out and telling me how pleased he was with my performance. Everything changed immediately after, and they have been playing all sorts of games to make me feel as uncomfortable as possible. My direct supervisor: "You shot yourself in the foot (by going to the HR and thus embarrassing the person in charge), and you have nobody to blame but yourself."

If not for the (mis)management, I love the job. I'm a creature of habit, and I would otherwise have no reservations about staying where I am for the rest of my working years. The injustice kills me; the fact that I'm having a shit sandwich forced down my throat and I feel I'm being terrorized by these bullies every day. Yes, I could probably sideways myself into another position within the municipality, but I keep coming back to the same thing: I have done nothing wrong but stick up for myself, and I should not have to leave a job I enjoy and do well simply because I was unwilling to take the hit on an issue where I was not at fault.

Obviously management feels there will be no repercussions for how they are treating me, and judging by the fact that the HR knows the situation and has not addressed it, I fear they are correct. I was just curious to see if there is an HR or labor lawyer here among us, or someone else with experience in this particular area.
RE: Are you good at your job?  
bradshaw44 : 7/4/2022 4:18 pm : link
In comment 15747107 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
do you have a good network?

sure, you could follow all the advice on here (some of it very bad) and get nowhere or say you do sue your company or report something with the EEOC - to what end? I don't see any way it ends well for you staying there following most of the advice on here.

It's such a hot job market right now (for job seekers) in many fields why not at least see if there is something better out there.

relationship with your manager is always a top 5 reason people leave jobs (sometimes it comes it at #1). Some people often even view employment as you work for your manager not your company because they're the ones who have the most impact on your career.

lastly, I have to ask and I don't mean it disrespectfully in any way, just curious - are you a millennial or Gen Z?

Just trying to gauge your age and some observations I anecdotally have about younger generations at work



Pj I agree with much of what you wrote. But this sounds more like a principle driven situation rather than a strictly work related situation. Maybe he wants to see justice rather than capitulating and letting them “win” by just jumping ship.

I personally would probably test the market because as you said, it’s hot right now for job seekers. We have people leaving my company getting 33-50% pay increases as well as landing positions that they are not qualified for. My two issues with people making a move at this point in time is, I think the economy is about to face a crippling blow and many companies are going to apply the LIFO method to employment when it comes time to release employees. So those people just arriving have a higher likelihood of being the first people let go.

The second issue is, changing jobs is cumbersome. And if the economy does take a turn, that can make managing the ups and downs much more difficult for someone who is still trying to gain their footing.

I get that his chancing of rectifying this with a victory and keeping his job while having it revert back to its original comfort level, are slim to none. But if he wants to fight it, what other options does he have outside of what he’s been presented here?

If you’re truly looking for work advice you should follow Pj’s suggestions. If it’s a matter of principle then I think you’ve been provided some very good advice by others.
Check to see if your state allows recording conversations  
ciggy : 7/4/2022 4:27 pm : link
If your state is one party consent then it’s legal for you to record any conversation with the supervisor since you would be the one party consenting.

If it’s two party consent (varies by state) then not legal unless other party consents.


If you are in a one party consent state then record those conversations and hopefully he repeats the statements about you screwed yourself by going to HR etc. if you get that on tape THEN you go toHR
EEOC.  
Giant John : 7/4/2022 4:38 pm : link
Get their opinion. If favorable seek a good employment attorney. If not favorable then either resign or move on.
I’m no expert and you may have legal recourse  
steve in ky : 7/4/2022 4:54 pm : link
But if it were me, I’d just find a job where I was appreciated. Life’s too short to work with unfair treatment
I would not start recording phone conversations  
pjcas18 : 7/4/2022 4:56 pm : link
for many reasons. I would save things that have been emailed or documented that you think help make your case but the difference is you save those AFTER they happen. The legality of recording conversations is state based, but also opens you up potentially to violating any employment contracts you have if there is any IP discussed in those conversations and where and how you save them.

also people are giving you bad advice about whistleblowers. It's very different for civilians (less protection) than it is for federal employees (more protection) and even the civilian protection under the whistleblower is very narrow and may or may not cover your situation and even then varies state by state.

If the situation is so toxic and you like your job and prefer not to move on do you have any type of relationship with your boss' boss? it's a bold move, sort of do or die, but if you do and can get their time for a meeting and you un-emotionally explain the situation at that level - and be clear on your "ask" you might have more luck than with HR, EEOC, or recording phone conversations.

but, despite the risks that bradshaw is right about, I'd move on.
RE: I would not start recording phone conversations  
bradshaw44 : 7/4/2022 5:15 pm : link
In comment 15747155 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
for many reasons. I would save things that have been emailed or documented that you think help make your case but the difference is you save those AFTER they happen. The legality of recording conversations is state based, but also opens you up potentially to violating any employment contracts you have if there is any IP discussed in those conversations and where and how you save them.

also people are giving you bad advice about whistleblowers. It's very different for civilians (less protection) than it is for federal employees (more protection) and even the civilian protection under the whistleblower is very narrow and may or may not cover your situation and even then varies state by state.

If the situation is so toxic and you like your job and prefer not to move on do you have any type of relationship with your boss' boss? it's a bold move, sort of do or die, but if you do and can get their time for a meeting and you un-emotionally explain the situation at that level - and be clear on your "ask" you might have more luck than with HR, EEOC, or recording phone conversations.

but, despite the risks that bradshaw is right about, I'd move on.


Yea the recording stuff is not a route I’d go either. Wouldn’t suggest that either. But collecting the documentation you already have in your possession absolutely do so.

Every time I’m in a situation I deem to have potential for issue, even if it never arises, I begin saving all communications In a folder.
Unfortunately  
Vanzetti : 7/4/2022 6:01 pm : link
HR ultimately does not decide matters on the basis of justice but on the basis of whose lawsuit they fear the most.

Again unfortunately, complaints by individual employees about unfair treatment just don't go very far even if they are accurate.

My advice would be to see a lawyer who specializes in civil employee suits. It will cost you $500+ for the consultation but it will be the best money you ever spent. It's imperative to know where you stand legally and also not to commit errors (like secretly recording conversations.).

Even if what the lawyer tells you is mostly bad news, it is still valuable info. Choose a lawyer who is experienced.
Just my two cents  
Semipro Lineman : 7/4/2022 6:03 pm : link
My understanding is that many state and local agencies are having trouble filling positions. It sounds like you have enough time and experience in the government to make it worth your while to look for a place that would accept your accrued time

It doesn't have to be in the exact same field but if you lasted 10 years at an agency then chances are you have transferable skills and experience that another agency is looking for
PS  
Vanzetti : 7/4/2022 6:04 pm : link
Sorry to hear about your situation. I went through something similar and it really sucks. Gnaws at you and colonizes all your mental space.

But getting a lawyer will help. Puts someone on your side.

One final thing  
Vanzetti : 7/4/2022 6:09 pm : link
Cocky assholes like your boss always fuck up at some point. Maybe something with a female employee or something like that. So just bide your time and wait until he fucks up and then pounce. Massive retaliation, hitting him with everything you got.
RE: ________  
montanagiant : 7/4/2022 6:12 pm : link
In comment 15746980 I am Ninja said:
Quote:
1. Go to HR
2. Get fired
3. Profit

1) Record future interaction with asshole boss where he states you will be fired going to HR
2) Got to HR
3) Get fired
4) Win slam dunk lawsuit
RE: RE: ________  
montanagiant : 7/4/2022 6:16 pm : link
In comment 15747192 montanagiant said:
Quote:
In comment 15746980 I am Ninja said:


Quote:


1. Go to HR
2. Get fired
3. Profit


1) Record future interaction with asshole boss where he states you will be fired going to HR
2) Got to HR
3) Get fired
4) Win slam dunk lawsuit

Belay that advice, PJ makes a good point
Do you have any trustable Allies at your work place?  
bradshaw44 : 7/4/2022 6:34 pm : link
Anyone that can corroborate your situation? That would be valuable if you go to a lawyer.

They could also accidentally be video taping you one day, coincidentally while on a speaker phone conversation and just happen to capture something of value on video recording. But that’s not a suggestion.
I don’t think there’s anything  
Debaser : 7/5/2022 4:26 am : link
Firstly hostile work environment doesn’t mean you know a boss that is unfriendly or throws you under the bus but, usually is a reference to sexual harassment or other illegal behavior.

HR usually just sides with management .

Also what state are you in? If New York it’s at will employees so they can basically fire you for wearing a tie your boss doesn’t like or any reason
Leaving the job because of a bad boss can make some sense  
Heisenberg : 7/5/2022 8:33 am : link
But if you don't want to leave, then don't.

A boss making you want to leave because of retaliation, and harassment is exactly what a hostile work environment is. If it's really as you've described, it's literally a textbook case.

So, sure you can decide to leave if there's other reasons you might find something better. But if you otherwise like your job and it's just him that's the problem, then you can also choose to fight for it.

If you live/work in NY/NJ/CT the laws are definitely set up to protect the employee in this situation. As described (again, taking your word it's not inflated with exaggeration) it's a text book case. If HR doesn't take care of it, then the organization is liable. It's black and white. A normal organization with a good HR department would fire this manager, especially if he really tried to bar you from going to HR after talking to them the first time. This kind of behavior from a manager and retaliatory assignments is something that is simply not allowed by law.
If HR doesn't take care of it, then the organization has not done what they should about a hostile work environment and you can and should sue and then go get a new job if you want. It doesn't mean you'll have to leave your job if you don't want to. But sometimes a lawsuit is the only thing that gets an organization to take this stuff seriously as they should.
RE: I don’t think there’s anything  
Heisenberg : 7/5/2022 8:34 am : link
In comment 15747310 Debaser said:
Quote:
Firstly hostile work environment doesn’t mean you know a boss that is unfriendly or throws you under the bus but, usually is a reference to sexual harassment or other illegal behavior.

HR usually just sides with management .

Also what state are you in? If New York it’s at will employees so they can basically fire you for wearing a tie your boss doesn’t like or any reason


Hostile work environment is not the same as sexual harassment.
Where is the business located ?  
Mike in Marin : 7/5/2022 10:05 am : link
I have a couple of attorneys. My wife is a senior HR executive for a large company and we have both used a couple of great employment attorneys over the years. Especially in NY, but also CA.

But either way  
Mike in Marin : 7/5/2022 10:13 am : link
As some have suggested, you need a good labor/employment attorney.

Hopefully someone here or in your network will recommend a good one in your state, or who practices in the state needed.

It sounds like you have a very good case. They may end up having to pay you off to leave or similar, but if a manager tells you you'll be fired for going to HR, that's like a f-ing cash register ringing across the land.
RE: I don’t think there’s anything  
Mike in Marin : 7/5/2022 10:19 am : link
In comment 15747310 Debaser said:
Quote:
Firstly hostile work environment doesn’t mean you know a boss that is unfriendly or throws you under the bus but, usually is a reference to sexual harassment or other illegal behavior.

HR usually just sides with management .

Also what state are you in? If New York it’s at will employees so they can basically fire you for wearing a tie your boss doesn’t like or any reason



Wrong. Companies can generally fire you for no reason, or a good reason but it is illegal to fire someone for a bad reason.

The history described by the OP is leading towards "bad reason" with prejudice. As long as this is documented and they have not written him up along the way to escalate for dismissal, he has a strong case.
My wife deals with these cases  
Mike in Marin : 7/5/2022 10:23 am : link
all the time for thousands of employees. And documentation is key. Management, in general, is constantly failing to do the proper escalating documentation to get rid of even bad employees. The best labor attorney I used for my own employment severance packages actually beat my wife's old company so she referred me to him when I needed a rock star.

Best $ you can buy for this type of thing.
I'm probably not the guy you want to take career advice from  
aimrocky : 7/5/2022 10:39 am : link
we sound very similar (I've been with my company for 17 years, joined right out of college. I haven't moved on primarily because I am a creature of habit, know my job really well and enjoy being a Senior person people lean on).

This is obvious advice, but I would suggest you avoid working with HR. They are not on your side. You have to decide if you want to stay or go. If you want to stay, suck it up, power through and let the dust settle. These things tend to be forgotten about after time. If you can't deal with that, then start the job hunt. IMO, what you shouldn't do is stay and kick up a dust storm. That will just create aggravation that won't end good
RE: I'm probably not the guy you want to take career advice from  
Vanzetti : 7/5/2022 11:12 am : link
In comment 15747397 aimrocky said:
Quote:
we sound very similar (I've been with my company for 17 years, joined right out of college. I haven't moved on primarily because I am a creature of habit, know my job really well and enjoy being a Senior person people lean on).

This is obvious advice, but I would suggest you avoid working with HR. They are not on your side. You have to decide if you want to stay or go. If you want to stay, suck it up, power through and let the dust settle. These things tend to be forgotten about after time. If you can't deal with that, then start the job hunt. IMO, what you shouldn't do is stay and kick up a dust storm. That will just create aggravation that won't end good


This is very good advice imo. I had something similar happen at work about 8 years ago. It does blow over eventually. Most of the people involved have left and I get back at them by savaging their reputation in front of their cronies who remain.

Also, you have to think about whether you have any skeletons in your closet. Even something ten years ago can suddenly become relevant if you decide to go to war.
Always hate to hear  
beatrixkiddo : 7/5/2022 11:47 am : link
People have to go through this, I have been in a completely toxic situation myself before which made me sick everyday, so I know what your going through. You need to develop a take no prisoners attitude. Like everyone said, document everything, talk to others to corroborate your case and see how willing they are to put things in writing or be a reference down the line should you need them.

I personally wouldn’t just wait it out, and let things blow over, cause in the end it’s not a guarantee. They can push you out and you’ll be the one out of a job while they create their own narrative of what happened. I’ve had a psycho boss try and ruin my reputation before, and I knew they were trying to throw me under the bus for their failings, you need to stand your ground and call it out. You need to document, date and build your case and follow through if you believe in your convictions. I’d recommend talking to a labor attorney, know for sure you have a good case and then pursue it once you are 100% sure of what’s been done to you is wrong and you have the evidence to prove your case.

Worst advice here is to keep your head downs me let things blow over, that’s setting yourself up for failure. Grow a damned spine and take no prisoners, these people want to ruin your career and life and won’t think twice about doing it to protect and advance themselves. Fuck em, make em pay for their actions because in the end you’ll lose everything while they prosper from the situation. Stand for what’s right and don’t be afraid to do so. Why anyone would want to continue working in such an environment is beyond me.

What state is this in?  
Maryland Blows : 7/5/2022 11:57 am : link
Love some of the advice aleady given

1st thing I would do is start interviewing elsewhere. If you are in NJ start looking on the League of Municipalities website for a similiar job that you are doing. I would do this now in case after going through the steps above recommended you get fired.

Go to HR the fact that your boss recommended you not go is grounds for hostile work environment.

Get a great labor attorney if this in NJ or FL I recommend a great guy named Bruce Atkins. He is literally awesome at this type of stuff.

Document,document,document everything that is happening to you and what this clown of an administrator is doing?

Going to see someone clinically to see how this is affecting your mental state is not a bad idea either. Showing what he or she is doing is affecting your mental health.

Aside from having a job  
Gman11 : 7/5/2022 4:29 pm : link
why in hell would you want to work there? Update the resume and get out of that hell hole.
RE: Aside from having a job  
Matt M. : 7/5/2022 4:31 pm : link
In comment 15747592 Gman11 said:
Quote:
why in hell would you want to work there? Update the resume and get out of that hell hole.
While probably correct, this advice is easier said than done.
EEOC, covers a number of issues  
SCGiantsFan : 7/5/2022 6:52 pm : link
.
EEOC Discrimination by types - ( New Window )
OP Here  
GlANTS : 7/5/2022 7:51 pm : link
Thanks yet again to everyone for taking the time to opine.

There is more to the story that I would really like to tell; stuff that I never ever imagined I'd find myself face-to-face with in a particular work environment like this one in the year 2022. I'm hesitant to turn this into more of a soap opera than I already have, and to be honest, I'm also nervous about divulging too much on the 1 in 500 chance that my supervisor's brother's mailman is a BBI member who happens to be the neighbor of Eric Kennedy or Gidiefor, and after an unlikely discussion about this guy who is writing about his toxic work environment, I'm discovered.

Suffice it to say there are reasons why this specific job is attractive to me and I would like to make it work. While I am furious over the injustice here, my ultimate goal is to continue working where I am, but not feel like I'm being terrorized every day as punishment for having done NOTHING wrong.

Your responses have run the gamut, and it seems the general advice is more or less what I've concluded myself: If I am resigned to staying employed where I am, it's best to bite my tongue, keep my head down, check my balls at the entrance each morning, and ride it out until everything blows over. Morale is in the toilet there, and as someone mentioned above, the regime is bound to cross someone who has significantly more pull than I do at some point.

That said, I am researching labor lawyers for a consultation. I am curious to know exactly what I should and should not say at my yearly review, if an issue arises with my supervisor, etc.
RE: RE: I don’t think there’s anything  
Debaser : 7/5/2022 8:02 pm : link
In comment 15747383 Mike in Marin said:
Quote:
In comment 15747310 Debaser said:


Quote:


Firstly hostile work environment doesn’t mean you know a boss that is unfriendly or throws you under the bus but, usually is a reference to sexual harassment or other illegal behavior.

HR usually just sides with management .

Also what state are you in? If New York it’s at will employees so they can basically fire you for wearing a tie your boss doesn’t like or any reason




Wrong. Companies can generally fire you for no reason, or a good reason but it is illegal to fire someone for a bad reason.

The history described by the OP is leading towards "bad reason" with prejudice. As long as this is documented and they have not written him up along the way to escalate for dismissal, he has a strong case.


Yes see my first point about hostile work environment. It involves harassment of a sexual nature or discrimination. In other words you can’t tell your secretary give me a hummer or I’m firing you and then fire them. Just like you can’t tell someone they don’t like their skin tone so they’re fired. Other than that if you’re in NY he can basically say I don’t like your face go home I want to look at a different one
RE: OP Here  
Chocco : 7/5/2022 10:10 pm : link
In comment 15747684 GlANTS said:
Quote:
Thanks yet again to everyone for taking the time to opine.

There is more to the story that I would really like to tell; stuff that I never ever imagined I'd find myself face-to-face with in a particular work environment like this one in the year 2022. I'm hesitant to turn this into more of a soap opera than I already have, and to be honest, I'm also nervous about divulging too much on the 1 in 500 chance that my supervisor's brother's mailman is a BBI member who happens to be the neighbor of Eric Kennedy or Gidiefor, and after an unlikely discussion about this guy who is writing about his toxic work environment, I'm discovered.

Suffice it to say there are reasons why this specific job is attractive to me and I would like to make it work. While I am furious over the injustice here, my ultimate goal is to continue working where I am, but not feel like I'm being terrorized every day as punishment for having done NOTHING wrong.

Your responses have run the gamut, and it seems the general advice is more or less what I've concluded myself: If I am resigned to staying employed where I am, it's best to bite my tongue, keep my head down, check my balls at the entrance each morning, and ride it out until everything blows over. Morale is in the toilet there, and as someone mentioned above, the regime is bound to cross someone who has significantly more pull than I do at some point.

That said, I am researching labor lawyers for a consultation. I am curious to know exactly what I should and should not say at my yearly review, if an issue arises with my supervisor, etc.

Haha I was in a similar situation a few years ago and went the other way (not quite full on Office
Space). I decided to get some coworkers together that I trusted and we developed a plan to help each other out and fix some of the problems on our own. I told myself if it got any worse I could just quit and I started the process of moving on. Ultimately we won my boss over and my boss's boss fucked up and got fired and the changes we made got some of us other opportunities to grow. Being willing to move on made all the difference for me. It is sort of like poker, it always seems easier when you not afraid of losing money. I am not suggesting you do that, your way may make more sense for your situation. Looking back, it really could have gone wrong in so many ways, but at that point it was worth it to me to try something before I threw in the towel (which I was prepared to do). Honestly it made going to work a little more exciting and fun.
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