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NFT: Benedict Arnold

Anakim : 7/4/2022 12:47 pm
No, I'm not talking about Steve Smith.


Figured I would make this thread on July 4th. I feel like attitude towards Benedict Arnold has shifted in recent years. When I was growing up, it was pretty instilled in me that Benedict Arnold was nothing short of a dirty traitor who nearly quashed the hope of this country before it could even be realized by attempting to sell to West Point to John Andre and the British.

Now, there seems to be a lot more sympathy towards Arnold and how he was essentially pushed to be a turncoat by an ungrateful nation. First off, he was a brilliant commander. He and Ethan Allen captured Fort Ticonderoga without firing a shot..and yet, the American leaders at the time credited Allen and not Arnold for the capture. The Canadian invasion was a disaster, that's true, but Arnold's shining moment was at the Battle of Saratoga. I've read a few say that he was the most pivotal figure at Saratoga, which ultimately convinced the French to join on our side. After that, victory was pretty much assured. The interesting thing is that the commander of the Americans in that battle, Horatio Gates, hated Arnold and confined him to his tent during the battle. Arnold took it into his own hands to escape the tent and ride to battle and commandeer the troops. Even during the battle, Arnold was badly injured when his thighbone was shattered by a bullet. And yet, Horatio Gates received credit for the victory, while Arnold was on a hospital bed where doctors were contemplating amputating his leg.


And despite all of that, the leaders of our country only begrudgingly named Benedict Arnold major general due to some vendetta against him. And Arnold was still considered inferior to other junior officers, who had received promotions in rank before him.



That's just what I've read in a nutshell, but it's interesting to see the dichotomy. We may not have a country had it not been for turncoat Benedict Arnold, but we also may not have a country had it not been for the courage, gall and bravery of Colonial commander Benedict Arnold.
two things can be true  
pjcas18 : 7/4/2022 1:00 pm : link
and one outweighs the other.

from all I have read Arnold was a fierce battlefield competitor and good leader, but he was obsessed with money/commendation and for many reasons (some you mentioned - but also because he was wounded) he was not rewarded as he wanted to be or even as he probably should have been.

but his decision to turn traitor is unforgivable.

I would think that the descendants of the.....  
MOOPS : 7/4/2022 1:25 pm : link
good people of New London and Groton and those of the the brave soldiers of Fort Griswold who were massacred under Arnold's command would still consider Benedict Arnold a traitorous piece of dog shit.
traitor?  
bobc : 7/4/2022 1:29 pm : link
check out how the Continental congress treated him and tell me he didn't have a legitimate complaint.
Eventually the laurels and  
bluepepper : 7/4/2022 1:30 pm : link
accolades would have come. He could have cities and forts named after him like other Revolutionary War heroes. Instead he betrayed comrades and country and his name is rightfully a synonym for treason.

Turn: Washington Spies  
upnyg : 7/4/2022 1:30 pm : link
Give it a watch, talks about Arnold, Washington and the spies in that war. Worth a watch.

A Traitor is a traitor. There are men and women who get overlooked in the service or anywhere. Its what they do after that that defines them.
Benedict Arnold  
TrueBlue56 : 7/4/2022 2:32 pm : link
Would have been a hero if he had died at Saratoga instead of getting shot in the leg. His ego was ultimately his undoing. Peggy Shippen certainly had a role in his turning too.

While some want to say arnolds' actions were understandable. He sold his soul and sold out his country. In the end, no one trusted him. He never got what he wanted to attain the most which was the accolades and recognition as well as status.

He will always be known more for turning on his men and his country. Just as Charles Lee and Gates are known for their cowardice.

It is in some ways very unfortunate, because he was a tremendous leader of men and a fighter. He could have been revered like Green, Daniel Morgan, Marquis De Lafayette, John Paul Jones, von Steuben and knox.
So…  
RicFlair : 7/4/2022 3:18 pm : link
He was an emotional little cry baby and a traitor.
So Arnold didn’t like what happened to him,  
Ben in Tampa : 7/4/2022 3:41 pm : link
Put himself above country, and then committed treason…




RE: So Arnold didn’t like what happened to him,  
pjcas18 : 7/4/2022 4:46 pm : link
In comment 15747127 Ben in Tampa said:
Quote:
Put himself above country, and then committed treason…





Sounds like you could be talking about our founding fathers. I guess to some treason is in the eye of the.....media.
RE: RE: So Arnold didn’t like what happened to him,  
Ben in Tampa : 7/4/2022 4:59 pm : link
In comment 15747151 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 15747127 Ben in Tampa said:


Quote:


Put himself above country, and then committed treason…







Sounds like you could be talking about our founding fathers. I guess to some treason is in the eye of the.....media.


Weird take
RE: RE: RE: So Arnold didn’t like what happened to him,  
pjcas18 : 7/4/2022 5:00 pm : link
In comment 15747159 Ben in Tampa said:
Quote:
In comment 15747151 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


In comment 15747127 Ben in Tampa said:


Quote:


Put himself above country, and then committed treason…







Sounds like you could be talking about our founding fathers. I guess to some treason is in the eye of the.....media.



Weird take

sure is.
RE: RE: So Arnold didn’t like what happened to him,  
BamaBlue : 7/4/2022 5:08 pm : link
In comment 15747151 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 15747127 Ben in Tampa said:


Quote:


Put himself above country, and then committed treason…







Sounds like you could be talking about our founding fathers. I guess to some treason is in the eye of the.....media.


Very different circumstances. The Founding Fathers sought liberty and were willing to sacrifice for it. Their goal was to improve the lives of Colonists. Arnold was self-serving and did what he did for himself and his fragile ego. Where the Founders used their position to influence and rally others in plain sight, Arnold hid in the shadows and deceived people who trusted him.
Of course  
pjcas18 : 7/4/2022 5:10 pm : link
see my prior post, Arnold was without a doubt a traitor and deserves his reputation.

How does this not become a political thread?  
81_Great_Dane : 7/4/2022 5:19 pm : link
It’s already getting political.

I’m bailing on this one, other than to say everyone has their reasons, but a reason is not an excuse.
In 2021, I drove up to the Saratoga Battlefield. There is a  
Marty in Albany : 7/4/2022 11:20 pm : link
monument there to Benedict Arnold's leg. It honored the one that was wounded in the service of his country. The rest of General Arnold, not so much.

Nothing turns my stomach  
section125 : 7/5/2022 12:25 am : link
like revisionist history. Benedict Arnold was a traitor. Even the British didn't want him. They reviled him. They knew what he was.

Was he a good field commander? Yes
Was he an egotistical a$$*ole? Yes

Lots of field commanders get overlooked or their superiors get the praise. Happens often. Had he stayed the course, eventually he would have been further recognized for his ability. War is attrition. Look at the litany of failed Army of the Potomac generals in the Civil War. Two solid years of incompetent leadership, one after another until Meade stabilized the Army and even he wasn't brilliant, but he was competent.

No Benedict Arnold was a traitor.
Benedict Arnold cemetery is in Newport, RI  
aquidneck : 7/5/2022 6:21 am : link
He's not there but his dad and grand dad (both also named Benedict) are.
Arnold Burrying Ground - ( New Window )
Washington supported Arnold  
averagejoe : 7/5/2022 7:52 am : link
and was personally betrayed by him. When Andre was captured Arnold barely escaped with his life and left his wife Peggy behind . The British were desperate to save Andre's life and offered to trade prisoners' but Washington refused. He would only accept Arnold in trade. The British refused and Andre was hung as a spy. Arnold wanted fame and fortune at any cost. In the end he died penniless and loathed by both sides.

He is the definition of a traitor.
Arnold was a traitor out for his personal gain.  
NYGgolfer : 7/5/2022 8:04 am : link
Do some simple research on line and you can read the facts. And then maybe revise your OP.

RE: Arnold was a traitor out for his personal gain.  
Anakim : 7/5/2022 10:36 am : link
In comment 15747331 NYGgolfer said:
Quote:
Do some simple research on line and you can read the facts. And then maybe revise your OP.


No need to be rude.


Arnold definitely rued the day he ever turned coats. In fact, legend has it that on his deathbed, he said, "let me die in this old uniform in which I fought my battles. May God forgive me for ever having put on another". Whether or not that was because he was considered such a social outcast in England is unclear.
RE: RE: Arnold was a traitor out for his personal gain.  
NYGgolfer : 7/5/2022 11:25 am : link
In comment 15747394 Anakim said:
Quote:
In comment 15747331 NYGgolfer said:


Quote:


Do some simple research on line and you can read the facts. And then maybe revise your OP.




No need to be rude.


Arnold definitely rued the day he ever turned coats. In fact, legend has it that on his deathbed, he said, "let me die in this old uniform in which I fought my battles. May God forgive me for ever having put on another". Whether or not that was because he was considered such a social outcast in England is unclear.


Apologies. Just seemed your OP was trying too hard to give this traitor a pass. Unfortunately his positive events should never outweigh what his negatives could have resulted in.

Once a traitor, always a traitor.
His ego was too big and, ultimately, got the better of him  
Hammer : 7/5/2022 8:45 pm : link
He was a great battlefield commander and a better war-time strategist.

He was also a classic narcissist.

He was on the fence regarding whether to change sides when he was court-martialed for his actions as the Army Administrator of Philidelphia.

His ego couldn't deal with that, and he told Andre he wanted out.

Ultimately, Arnold put his own parochial self interest before his nation.

And, in regard to posterity, he got what he deserved.
Did his wife encourage  
xman : 7/6/2022 11:22 am : link
him for the $$$?
This is ridiculous  
Jay on the Island : 7/6/2022 1:28 pm : link
Arnold was a traitor and was willing to sell out his own men and hand over West Point and his good friend Washington all for personal gain. Sure there were other Generals who were unfair to Arnold but that does not excuse his behavior.

George Washington defended Arnold especially after Arnold lined his own pockets in Philadelphia keeping or selling goods that were meant to fund the army. Had they not been lucky Arnold's plan to turn over West Point would have ended the war for the British.

Arnold could have gone down as an American hero but instead his name will always be synonymous with being a traitor.
I'm looking forward to Anakim's Vidkun Quisling thread.  
Klaatu : 7/6/2022 1:43 pm : link
Should be a doozy.
Traitor. Bottom line.  
FStubbs : 7/6/2022 8:37 pm : link
He'll go down in history with Akechi Mitsuhide, Vidkun Quisling, Brutus, and of course most infamously, Judas Iscariot.
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