for a 5th round pick.
A new QB in Carolina: The #Panthers are acquiring former No. 1 overall pick Baker Mayfield from the #Browns for a 2024 conditional 5th-round draft pick, sources tell me and @TomPelissero. Deal is pending a physical. All parties split the financials to make it happen.
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of 65 and 35. Take that average and compare it to his 2 other years and that’s exactly what he is, which is a hair better than Jones despite the stark increase in talent around him.
It’s a really crappy comparison that’s actually a whole lot closer than you are leading on.
I didn't bring Jones into this discussion. speedywheels did.
I know, but your comment was your comment and I think it’s flawed.
I do agree it’s a cheap cost for Carolina, it took an absurd and unprecedented offseason for it to come about, however.
You astonishingly suck at guessing what I mean. You'd be way better off just trusting what I say, because I'm far less tricky than you think I am.
I think if Jones has an efficient season, and the Giants win a play off game, plenty of fans would want him extended to a middle tier, veteran contract. That's how I feel. That's a guess, I'm not guaranteeing that.
Mayfield had one of those seasons in year 3, in this hypothetical Jones has it in year 4.
If I was the GM I wouldn't conclude Mayfield sucks coming off an injury plagued season. And I wouldn't conclude Jones was worth a big contract after one solid year.
You probably also missed the part where I agrees with you about tagging him.
The Browns had no leverage. Mayfield was done there and the most of the league either has a qb or doesn’t like Mayfield very much. Was anyone else on him? Considering they paid $10m of his salary my guess is likely not.
Then pull out to the new stadium in the background!
We’re getting there folks...
Pipe down you. Go pray to your Glennon shrine while the big kids talk football.
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for cheaper than what we are paying our back up? I mean say what you will about Glennon but, at least he was not a 9 mil a year (with incentives) back up.
Pipe down you. Go pray to your Glennon shrine while the big kids talk football.
Yea it’s kind of pathetic that the Maras ; Gettleman; D Jones and Barkley left me with nothing to root for but a mike Glennon Cinderella story but what else is there? Daniel Jones waking up one morning and not be Daniel Jones any more?
Baker is better than DJones and it’s not even close. Heck Darnold is better than Jones.
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for cheaper than what we are paying our back up? I mean say what you will about Glennon but, at least he was not a 9 mil a year (with incentives) back up.
Pipe down you. Go pray to your Glennon shrine while the big kids talk football.
Whoa the big kids are talking football again and comparing a second to bottom of the league QB again to another player that no one who isn’t a giants homer would ever do! Excuse me.
And yes he’s a cuckold. I know because when I talk giants at a bar with random cuckolds they have the same attitude. They care more about rooting for a classy athlete than they care about winning. It’s wins and losses come second. Mara is the same way. At least I hope for his sake if not this guy needs to go into another business.
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But this is quite simple, if Mayfield is *terrible* (which I think is a massive exaggeration) -- if Jones has one pretty good season out of four, does that make him terrible too?
Mayfield isn’t terrible but you’re just being silly for the sake of argument. Must be bored again. Not many people were calling Mayfield terrible after 2020. But he hasn’t followed up with that and regressed considerably while playing with a damned good supporting cast. People have soured on him. But people were talking him up after 2020 and many felt he was on his way to being pretty damned good. If Jones has a similar season, people will have hopes he’s finally figured it out with pieces around him and a coaching staff that hopefully knows what the hell they are doing. But if he does a Mayfield and follows up the good season with another bad one, yes people will come to the conclusion he’s just not any good.
I’m not sure why you’re trying to insinuate that fans are giving Jones a pass while criticizing Mayfield. And make no mistake, that’s exactly what you’re trying to invent here.
You have to throw out 2021 when judging Baker. He played through severe injuries. That's not to say he's great. He clearly isn't great. But he's been much better than Darnold so far. Much better. Carolina and Ruhle finally have a solid if unspectacular QB.
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In comment 15748304 christian said:
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But this is quite simple, if Mayfield is *terrible* (which I think is a massive exaggeration) -- if Jones has one pretty good season out of four, does that make him terrible too?
Mayfield isn’t terrible but you’re just being silly for the sake of argument. Must be bored again. Not many people were calling Mayfield terrible after 2020. But he hasn’t followed up with that and regressed considerably while playing with a damned good supporting cast. People have soured on him. But people were talking him up after 2020 and many felt he was on his way to being pretty damned good. If Jones has a similar season, people will have hopes he’s finally figured it out with pieces around him and a coaching staff that hopefully knows what the hell they are doing. But if he does a Mayfield and follows up the good season with another bad one, yes people will come to the conclusion he’s just not any good.
I’m not sure why you’re trying to insinuate that fans are giving Jones a pass while criticizing Mayfield. And make no mistake, that’s exactly what you’re trying to invent here.
You have to throw out 2021 when judging Baker. He played through severe injuries. That's not to say he's great. He clearly isn't great. But he's been much better than Darnold so far. Much better. Carolina and Ruhle finally have a solid if unspectacular QB.
Should we throw out the last two years of Daniel Jones because he has injuries everywhere around him and an awful OC who could not catch on anywhere after he was fired? Even before his injury Mayfield was being heavily supported by the running game. They had 1 win against a playoff team with Mayfield as QB (against Cincy where he threw all of 21 times for 218 yards). Against the easiest part of their schedule (HOU, CHI, MIN) he had 2 TD and 1 INT. They ended up scoring 71 points over that timeframe because of running game and defense. The talent was there around him but he regressed badly and then blamed everyone else. Being better than Darnold is not an accomplishment. Daniel Jones was better (barely) than Darnold in their head to head matchup last year. I am no fan of Daniel Jones and would have offered him to Cleveland in a deal for Mayfield (because Brissett may be the worst starting QB), but need to call a spade a spade.
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In comment 15748311 BigBlueShock said:
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In comment 15748304 christian said:
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But this is quite simple, if Mayfield is *terrible* (which I think is a massive exaggeration) -- if Jones has one pretty good season out of four, does that make him terrible too?
Mayfield isn’t terrible but you’re just being silly for the sake of argument. Must be bored again. Not many people were calling Mayfield terrible after 2020. But he hasn’t followed up with that and regressed considerably while playing with a damned good supporting cast. People have soured on him. But people were talking him up after 2020 and many felt he was on his way to being pretty damned good. If Jones has a similar season, people will have hopes he’s finally figured it out with pieces around him and a coaching staff that hopefully knows what the hell they are doing. But if he does a Mayfield and follows up the good season with another bad one, yes people will come to the conclusion he’s just not any good.
I’m not sure why you’re trying to insinuate that fans are giving Jones a pass while criticizing Mayfield. And make no mistake, that’s exactly what you’re trying to invent here.
You have to throw out 2021 when judging Baker. He played through severe injuries. That's not to say he's great. He clearly isn't great. But he's been much better than Darnold so far. Much better. Carolina and Ruhle finally have a solid if unspectacular QB.
Should we throw out the last two years of Daniel Jones because he has injuries everywhere around him and an awful OC who could not catch on anywhere after he was fired? Even before his injury Mayfield was being heavily supported by the running game. They had 1 win against a playoff team with Mayfield as QB (against Cincy where he threw all of 21 times for 218 yards). Against the easiest part of their schedule (HOU, CHI, MIN) he had 2 TD and 1 INT. They ended up scoring 71 points over that timeframe because of running game and defense. The talent was there around him but he regressed badly and then blamed everyone else. Being better than Darnold is not an accomplishment. Daniel Jones was better (barely) than Darnold in their head to head matchup last year. I am no fan of Daniel Jones and would have offered him to Cleveland in a deal for Mayfield (because Brissett may be the worst starting QB), but need to call a spade a spade.
No. Daniel Jones was plenty healthy when he played poorly. I'm not sure why you're bringing Jones into this tbh. Mayfield played pretty well when healthy.
And yes he’s a cuckold. I know because when I talk giants at a bar with random cuckolds they have the same attitude. They care more about rooting for a classy athlete than they care about winning. It’s wins and losses come second. Mara is the same way. At least I hope for his sake if not this guy needs to go into another business.
What's pathetic is that you still allowed to pollute this site. And you still don't understand what that word means, and also don't know how to use it in a sentence.
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In comment 15748449 Producer said:
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In comment 15748311 BigBlueShock said:
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In comment 15748304 christian said:
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But this is quite simple, if Mayfield is *terrible* (which I think is a massive exaggeration) -- if Jones has one pretty good season out of four, does that make him terrible too?
Mayfield isn’t terrible but you’re just being silly for the sake of argument. Must be bored again. Not many people were calling Mayfield terrible after 2020. But he hasn’t followed up with that and regressed considerably while playing with a damned good supporting cast. People have soured on him. But people were talking him up after 2020 and many felt he was on his way to being pretty damned good. If Jones has a similar season, people will have hopes he’s finally figured it out with pieces around him and a coaching staff that hopefully knows what the hell they are doing. But if he does a Mayfield and follows up the good season with another bad one, yes people will come to the conclusion he’s just not any good.
I’m not sure why you’re trying to insinuate that fans are giving Jones a pass while criticizing Mayfield. And make no mistake, that’s exactly what you’re trying to invent here.
You have to throw out 2021 when judging Baker. He played through severe injuries. That's not to say he's great. He clearly isn't great. But he's been much better than Darnold so far. Much better. Carolina and Ruhle finally have a solid if unspectacular QB.
Should we throw out the last two years of Daniel Jones because he has injuries everywhere around him and an awful OC who could not catch on anywhere after he was fired? Even before his injury Mayfield was being heavily supported by the running game. They had 1 win against a playoff team with Mayfield as QB (against Cincy where he threw all of 21 times for 218 yards). Against the easiest part of their schedule (HOU, CHI, MIN) he had 2 TD and 1 INT. They ended up scoring 71 points over that timeframe because of running game and defense. The talent was there around him but he regressed badly and then blamed everyone else. Being better than Darnold is not an accomplishment. Daniel Jones was better (barely) than Darnold in their head to head matchup last year. I am no fan of Daniel Jones and would have offered him to Cleveland in a deal for Mayfield (because Brissett may be the worst starting QB), but need to call a spade a spade.
No. Daniel Jones was plenty healthy when he played poorly. I'm not sure why you're bringing Jones into this tbh. Mayfield played pretty well when healthy.
No he didn’t. He had one career year out of 4 when his running game and D were at their best and you want to make excuses for everything else. Mitch Trubisky had production yet teams weren’t lining up for him. Mayfield is not a good QB, an improvement over Jones or Darnold but that is not saying much.
And yes he’s a cuckold. I know because when I talk giants at a bar with random cuckolds they have the same attitude. They care more about rooting for a classy athlete than they care about winning. It’s wins and losses come second. Mara is the same way. At least I hope for his sake if not this guy needs to go into another business.
Started with Eli, then Gettleman, and now onto Jones...
At best you can say d jones played well as a rookie grading him on a huge curve. Even then on account of his many turnovers I don’t recall the giants playing with a lead one time.
Other myths — Garrett was an awful coach because no one else picked him up.
First off, how do you know after two teams and 10 plus years later he even wants to coach any more.?
Also, it’s not uncommon for even food coaches to take some time off before coaching again. Parcels coughlin Payton
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It never even occurred to cuckold Mara to pick up a phone and call the Browns about this.
And yes he’s a cuckold. I know because when I talk giants at a bar with random cuckolds they have the same attitude. They care more about rooting for a classy athlete than they care about winning. It’s wins and losses come second. Mara is the same way. At least I hope for his sake if not this guy needs to go into another business.
What's pathetic is that you still allowed to pollute this site. And you still don't understand what that word means, and also don't know how to use it in a sentence.
How many times are you going to say it? It’s kind of sad that when other posters come on here and say that despite offering an unpopular opinion— that I’m still right about Mara— you have to come on and contradict them. You know everything about debaser now and into the future and nothing else can change amen.
Further what is another good pejorative term for a wimpy old man? Cuckold fits just fine despite that I don’t know what his wife does.
You still don't know what that word means, lol.
Sam Darnold is better than..
Mike Glennon mention
Daniel Jones sucks…
I hit the Debaser bingo card!!
If you want to say he's stupid, then simply say he's stupid. If that isn't vitriolic enough for you, then google synonyms for the word. There are many. A refusal to do that, to continue using a word which you know to be contextually incorrect, makes you, well, stupid.
If you want to say he's stupid, then simply say he's stupid. If that isn't vitriolic enough for you, then google synonyms for the word. There are many. A refusal to do that, to continue using a word which you know to be contextually incorrect, makes you, well, stupid.
Ah yes it does appear you are foolishly assuming things. If you're going to come on strong at least get your facts rights about what I am saying about Mara.
I am not calling Mara a cuckold because he is clueless and gives out free medium Pepsi's. Although he is.
I am not calling Mara a cuckold because he is an incompetent Owner; although he is.
I am calling Mara a cuckold (and other Giants fans I met like him) because they have that older, conservative, do- gooder, wimp mentality that is very country club and very bourgeoisie. This weird value system has given us horrible football for how many years now?
It was great that Eli was a class act. It was icing on the cake. He was a pretty darn good football player. What does Mara think lightning is going to strike twice?
It's like I said this strange value system leads many to believe that playing in the NFL is the same level of competitiveness as a country club game of round Robin.
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In comment 15748453 Mike in NY said:
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In comment 15748449 Producer said:
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In comment 15748311 BigBlueShock said:
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In comment 15748304 christian said:
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But this is quite simple, if Mayfield is *terrible* (which I think is a massive exaggeration) -- if Jones has one pretty good season out of four, does that make him terrible too?
Mayfield isn’t terrible but you’re just being silly for the sake of argument. Must be bored again. Not many people were calling Mayfield terrible after 2020. But he hasn’t followed up with that and regressed considerably while playing with a damned good supporting cast. People have soured on him. But people were talking him up after 2020 and many felt he was on his way to being pretty damned good. If Jones has a similar season, people will have hopes he’s finally figured it out with pieces around him and a coaching staff that hopefully knows what the hell they are doing. But if he does a Mayfield and follows up the good season with another bad one, yes people will come to the conclusion he’s just not any good.
I’m not sure why you’re trying to insinuate that fans are giving Jones a pass while criticizing Mayfield. And make no mistake, that’s exactly what you’re trying to invent here.
You have to throw out 2021 when judging Baker. He played through severe injuries. That's not to say he's great. He clearly isn't great. But he's been much better than Darnold so far. Much better. Carolina and Ruhle finally have a solid if unspectacular QB.
Should we throw out the last two years of Daniel Jones because he has injuries everywhere around him and an awful OC who could not catch on anywhere after he was fired? Even before his injury Mayfield was being heavily supported by the running game. They had 1 win against a playoff team with Mayfield as QB (against Cincy where he threw all of 21 times for 218 yards). Against the easiest part of their schedule (HOU, CHI, MIN) he had 2 TD and 1 INT. They ended up scoring 71 points over that timeframe because of running game and defense. The talent was there around him but he regressed badly and then blamed everyone else. Being better than Darnold is not an accomplishment. Daniel Jones was better (barely) than Darnold in their head to head matchup last year. I am no fan of Daniel Jones and would have offered him to Cleveland in a deal for Mayfield (because Brissett may be the worst starting QB), but need to call a spade a spade.
No. Daniel Jones was plenty healthy when he played poorly. I'm not sure why you're bringing Jones into this tbh. Mayfield played pretty well when healthy.
No he didn’t. He had one career year out of 4 when his running game and D were at their best and you want to make excuses for everything else. Mitch Trubisky had production yet teams weren’t lining up for him. Mayfield is not a good QB, an improvement over Jones or Darnold but that is not saying much.
I'm referring to Jones' physical health. Yes, he battled late season injuries but we have enough of Jones playing healthy to start to make an assessment. As to Mayfield, I think we agree on his relative quality. He's probably a top 15 QB. Nothing more. But that's a big improvement over what Carolina was working with. And Ruhle has to get results starting now, it seems. I wouldn't be thrilled if Mayfield was the Giants starting QB. I want better, as it seems, so do you.
And yes he’s a cuckold. I know because when I talk giants at a bar with random cuckolds they have the same attitude. They care more about rooting for a classy athlete than they care about winning. It’s wins and losses come second. Mara is the same way. At least I hope for his sake if not this guy needs to go into another business.
Debaser -- this is straying into troll territory. If you keep it up we will suspend you. You are using a highly charged vulgar word improperly and riling posters up with it.
I am calling him one because he implements taunts rule changes on the committee he sits on because his country club sensitivities are offended. And further by subjecting us and jones longer than has been sensible to do so without any competition.
If you have a better word for that go ahead and say it.
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In comment 15748459 Producer said:
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In comment 15748453 Mike in NY said:
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In comment 15748449 Producer said:
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In comment 15748311 BigBlueShock said:
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In comment 15748304 christian said:
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But this is quite simple, if Mayfield is *terrible* (which I think is a massive exaggeration) -- if Jones has one pretty good season out of four, does that make him terrible too?
Mayfield isn’t terrible but you’re just being silly for the sake of argument. Must be bored again. Not many people were calling Mayfield terrible after 2020. But he hasn’t followed up with that and regressed considerably while playing with a damned good supporting cast. People have soured on him. But people were talking him up after 2020 and many felt he was on his way to being pretty damned good. If Jones has a similar season, people will have hopes he’s finally figured it out with pieces around him and a coaching staff that hopefully knows what the hell they are doing. But if he does a Mayfield and follows up the good season with another bad one, yes people will come to the conclusion he’s just not any good.
I’m not sure why you’re trying to insinuate that fans are giving Jones a pass while criticizing Mayfield. And make no mistake, that’s exactly what you’re trying to invent here.
You have to throw out 2021 when judging Baker. He played through severe injuries. That's not to say he's great. He clearly isn't great. But he's been much better than Darnold so far. Much better. Carolina and Ruhle finally have a solid if unspectacular QB.
Should we throw out the last two years of Daniel Jones because he has injuries everywhere around him and an awful OC who could not catch on anywhere after he was fired? Even before his injury Mayfield was being heavily supported by the running game. They had 1 win against a playoff team with Mayfield as QB (against Cincy where he threw all of 21 times for 218 yards). Against the easiest part of their schedule (HOU, CHI, MIN) he had 2 TD and 1 INT. They ended up scoring 71 points over that timeframe because of running game and defense. The talent was there around him but he regressed badly and then blamed everyone else. Being better than Darnold is not an accomplishment. Daniel Jones was better (barely) than Darnold in their head to head matchup last year. I am no fan of Daniel Jones and would have offered him to Cleveland in a deal for Mayfield (because Brissett may be the worst starting QB), but need to call a spade a spade.
No. Daniel Jones was plenty healthy when he played poorly. I'm not sure why you're bringing Jones into this tbh. Mayfield played pretty well when healthy.
No he didn’t. He had one career year out of 4 when his running game and D were at their best and you want to make excuses for everything else. Mitch Trubisky had production yet teams weren’t lining up for him. Mayfield is not a good QB, an improvement over Jones or Darnold but that is not saying much.
I'm referring to Jones' physical health. Yes, he battled late season injuries but we have enough of Jones playing healthy to start to make an assessment. As to Mayfield, I think we agree on his relative quality. He's probably a top 15 QB. Nothing more. But that's a big improvement over what Carolina was working with. And Ruhle has to get results starting now, it seems. I wouldn't be thrilled if Mayfield was the Giants starting QB. I want better, as it seems, so do you.
I would not even say that Mayfield is a Top 15 QB
In no particular order I would not list him above
(1) Lamar Jackson
(2) Josh Allen
(3) Joe Burrow
(4) Russell Wilson
(5) Patrick Mahomes
(6) Derek Carr
(7) Justin Herbert
(8) Ryan Tannehill
(9) Kyler Murray
(10) Dak Prescott
(11) Aaron Rodgers
(12) Matt Stafford
(13) Tom Brady
(14) Tua Tagovailoa
(15) Mac Jones
(16) Trevor Lawrence
(17) Matt Ryan
(18) Kirk Cousins
Even after those 18 he is probably in same tier as Hurts, Wentz, Goff, whomever starts in SF.
That list also does not include Watson since he will be suspended this year. Had he played he would have been on the Top 19 list.
What a weird thing to stress over. Mara may be an ineffective owner now - but if you don’t think he cares about the team and organization - you couldn’t be more wrong.
Again - he won 2 Super Bowls.
I am calling him one because he implements taunts rule changes on the committee he sits on because his country club sensitivities are offended. And further by subjecting us and jones longer than has been sensible to do so without any competition.
If you have a better word for that go ahead and say it.
I'm reading what you're writing, and I'm responding by telling you that you're using the wrong word(s) to say what you want to say. I'm also telling you that your stubborn refusal to change your terminology when presented with that fact makes you look like a clown.
You're also attributing motives to John Mara without any foundation. "Country club sensitivities?" What does that even mean? You would have been better off using "Catholic sensitivities," but even then you would have been on thin ice. Not all Catholics are the same, just as not all country club members are the same. Regardless, your prejudice is showing. Call it "reverse snobbery," with a not-so-subtle hint of jealousy.
Had you read - and understood - what I wrote earlier, you would have seen that questioning his football acumen is fair game. Questioning his management skill would be, too. But neither makes him a wimp or a cuckold. Nor does stubbornness, misplaced loyalty, or a refusal to accept any blame for his poor decision-making.
You see, I can criticize him, too, without resorting to clownish behavior in the process.
What a weird thing to stress over. Mara may be an ineffective owner now - but if you don’t think he cares about the team and organization - you couldn’t be more wrong.
Again - he won 2 Super Bowls.
Mike Tomlin is on record applauding the taunting rule. He agrees with it 100%. But yeah, it’s all Maras fault!!!
To put it in context:
Everytime Mike Glennon has sex, Debaser has been cuckolded
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In comment 15748463 Mike in NY said:
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In comment 15748459 Producer said:
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In comment 15748453 Mike in NY said:
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In comment 15748449 Producer said:
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In comment 15748311 BigBlueShock said:
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In comment 15748304 christian said:
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But this is quite simple, if Mayfield is *terrible* (which I think is a massive exaggeration) -- if Jones has one pretty good season out of four, does that make him terrible too?
Mayfield isn’t terrible but you’re just being silly for the sake of argument. Must be bored again. Not many people were calling Mayfield terrible after 2020. But he hasn’t followed up with that and regressed considerably while playing with a damned good supporting cast. People have soured on him. But people were talking him up after 2020 and many felt he was on his way to being pretty damned good. If Jones has a similar season, people will have hopes he’s finally figured it out with pieces around him and a coaching staff that hopefully knows what the hell they are doing. But if he does a Mayfield and follows up the good season with another bad one, yes people will come to the conclusion he’s just not any good.
I’m not sure why you’re trying to insinuate that fans are giving Jones a pass while criticizing Mayfield. And make no mistake, that’s exactly what you’re trying to invent here.
You have to throw out 2021 when judging Baker. He played through severe injuries. That's not to say he's great. He clearly isn't great. But he's been much better than Darnold so far. Much better. Carolina and Ruhle finally have a solid if unspectacular QB.
Should we throw out the last two years of Daniel Jones because he has injuries everywhere around him and an awful OC who could not catch on anywhere after he was fired? Even before his injury Mayfield was being heavily supported by the running game. They had 1 win against a playoff team with Mayfield as QB (against Cincy where he threw all of 21 times for 218 yards). Against the easiest part of their schedule (HOU, CHI, MIN) he had 2 TD and 1 INT. They ended up scoring 71 points over that timeframe because of running game and defense. The talent was there around him but he regressed badly and then blamed everyone else. Being better than Darnold is not an accomplishment. Daniel Jones was better (barely) than Darnold in their head to head matchup last year. I am no fan of Daniel Jones and would have offered him to Cleveland in a deal for Mayfield (because Brissett may be the worst starting QB), but need to call a spade a spade.
No. Daniel Jones was plenty healthy when he played poorly. I'm not sure why you're bringing Jones into this tbh. Mayfield played pretty well when healthy.
No he didn’t. He had one career year out of 4 when his running game and D were at their best and you want to make excuses for everything else. Mitch Trubisky had production yet teams weren’t lining up for him. Mayfield is not a good QB, an improvement over Jones or Darnold but that is not saying much.
I'm referring to Jones' physical health. Yes, he battled late season injuries but we have enough of Jones playing healthy to start to make an assessment. As to Mayfield, I think we agree on his relative quality. He's probably a top 15 QB. Nothing more. But that's a big improvement over what Carolina was working with. And Ruhle has to get results starting now, it seems. I wouldn't be thrilled if Mayfield was the Giants starting QB. I want better, as it seems, so do you.
I would not even say that Mayfield is a Top 15 QB
In no particular order I would not list him above
(1) Lamar Jackson
(2) Josh Allen
(3) Joe Burrow
(4) Russell Wilson
(5) Patrick Mahomes
(6) Derek Carr
(7) Justin Herbert
(8) Ryan Tannehill
(9) Kyler Murray
(10) Dak Prescott
(11) Aaron Rodgers
(12) Matt Stafford
(13) Tom Brady
(14) Tua Tagovailoa
(15) Mac Jones
(16) Trevor Lawrence
(17) Matt Ryan
(18) Kirk Cousins
Even after those 18 he is probably in same tier as Hurts, Wentz, Goff, whomever starts in SF.
That list also does not include Watson since he will be suspended this year. Had he played he would have been on the Top 19 list.
Love how overrated Tua and Mac Jones are, and underrated Wentz, Jimmy G, Lance, even Goff are to an extent.
Trevor Lawrence being top 18 is mostly college hype, so far.
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In comment 15748516 Producer said:
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In comment 15748463 Mike in NY said:
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In comment 15748459 Producer said:
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In comment 15748453 Mike in NY said:
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In comment 15748449 Producer said:
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In comment 15748311 BigBlueShock said:
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In comment 15748304 christian said:
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But this is quite simple, if Mayfield is *terrible* (which I think is a massive exaggeration) -- if Jones has one pretty good season out of four, does that make him terrible too?
Mayfield isn’t terrible but you’re just being silly for the sake of argument. Must be bored again. Not many people were calling Mayfield terrible after 2020. But he hasn’t followed up with that and regressed considerably while playing with a damned good supporting cast. People have soured on him. But people were talking him up after 2020 and many felt he was on his way to being pretty damned good. If Jones has a similar season, people will have hopes he’s finally figured it out with pieces around him and a coaching staff that hopefully knows what the hell they are doing. But if he does a Mayfield and follows up the good season with another bad one, yes people will come to the conclusion he’s just not any good.
I’m not sure why you’re trying to insinuate that fans are giving Jones a pass while criticizing Mayfield. And make no mistake, that’s exactly what you’re trying to invent here.
You have to throw out 2021 when judging Baker. He played through severe injuries. That's not to say he's great. He clearly isn't great. But he's been much better than Darnold so far. Much better. Carolina and Ruhle finally have a solid if unspectacular QB.
Should we throw out the last two years of Daniel Jones because he has injuries everywhere around him and an awful OC who could not catch on anywhere after he was fired? Even before his injury Mayfield was being heavily supported by the running game. They had 1 win against a playoff team with Mayfield as QB (against Cincy where he threw all of 21 times for 218 yards). Against the easiest part of their schedule (HOU, CHI, MIN) he had 2 TD and 1 INT. They ended up scoring 71 points over that timeframe because of running game and defense. The talent was there around him but he regressed badly and then blamed everyone else. Being better than Darnold is not an accomplishment. Daniel Jones was better (barely) than Darnold in their head to head matchup last year. I am no fan of Daniel Jones and would have offered him to Cleveland in a deal for Mayfield (because Brissett may be the worst starting QB), but need to call a spade a spade.
No. Daniel Jones was plenty healthy when he played poorly. I'm not sure why you're bringing Jones into this tbh. Mayfield played pretty well when healthy.
No he didn’t. He had one career year out of 4 when his running game and D were at their best and you want to make excuses for everything else. Mitch Trubisky had production yet teams weren’t lining up for him. Mayfield is not a good QB, an improvement over Jones or Darnold but that is not saying much.
I'm referring to Jones' physical health. Yes, he battled late season injuries but we have enough of Jones playing healthy to start to make an assessment. As to Mayfield, I think we agree on his relative quality. He's probably a top 15 QB. Nothing more. But that's a big improvement over what Carolina was working with. And Ruhle has to get results starting now, it seems. I wouldn't be thrilled if Mayfield was the Giants starting QB. I want better, as it seems, so do you.
I would not even say that Mayfield is a Top 15 QB
In no particular order I would not list him above
(1) Lamar Jackson
(2) Josh Allen
(3) Joe Burrow
(4) Russell Wilson
(5) Patrick Mahomes
(6) Derek Carr
(7) Justin Herbert
(8) Ryan Tannehill
(9) Kyler Murray
(10) Dak Prescott
(11) Aaron Rodgers
(12) Matt Stafford
(13) Tom Brady
(14) Tua Tagovailoa
(15) Mac Jones
(16) Trevor Lawrence
(17) Matt Ryan
(18) Kirk Cousins
Even after those 18 he is probably in same tier as Hurts, Wentz, Goff, whomever starts in SF.
That list also does not include Watson since he will be suspended this year. Had he played he would have been on the Top 19 list.
Love how overrated Tua and Mac Jones are, and underrated Wentz, Jimmy G, Lance, even Goff are to an extent.
Trevor Lawrence being top 18 is mostly college hype, so far.
I said it was in no particular order. I took a list of projected starting QB's and took the ones I would rank above Mayfield. Then I went through the list a second time to see if I missed anyone.
Mac Jones has as many playoff appearances as Baker Mayfield does. Jimmy G. knows how to win games, but he is also prone to having at least one "wtf" play in the process. When the D and ST can bail him out that is fine, but I think he would not look the same without that supporting cast. Lance has never been in a system where he had to throw 30+ times on a consistent basis. Can he do that if a game gets into a slugfest? Nobody knows Wentz better than Frank Reich and he was done with him after 1 year for good reason. If you look at the numbers you would wonder why he wasn't higher, but when you see the play in big games it is bad. Goff is not the same QB without McVay calling the plays. He looked better as the season went on in Detroit, but until he shows more I can't rate him higher than I do.
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But this is quite simple, if Mayfield is *terrible* (which I think is a massive exaggeration) -- if Jones has one pretty good season out of four, does that make him terrible too?
Logic like this goes over everyone's head.
I think the counter from the "Jones-is-the-unluckiest-player-in-NFL-history" crowd would be that Jones had a pretty good rookie season. So, that would be two out of four pretty good seasons...if you drink that Kool-Aid.
Calling Debaser “stupid “is an instance.
Without making a fetish out of stats Lawrence looks good on film, very textbook. You would think he eventually straightens things out. Then again I still don't like Josh Allen's mechanics so...
He's not wrong. It was a beyond stupid pick.
Without making a fetish out of stats Lawrence looks good on film, very textbook. You would think he eventually straightens things out. Then again I still don't like Josh Allen's mechanics so...
Jones never had a coach as woeful as Urban Meyer.
Yes, even Judge at his worst last year was still better.