for a 5th round pick.
A new QB in Carolina: The #Panthers are acquiring former No. 1 overall pick Baker Mayfield from the #Browns for a 2024 conditional 5th-round draft pick, sources tell me and @TomPelissero. Deal is pending a physical. All parties split the financials to make it happen.
Well played, well played!
First domino to fall. Jimmy G should be moving on soon
Panthers pay 5 mil
Baker takes pay cut as well.
Panthers pay 5 mil
Baker takes pay cut as well.
He can earn all that "paycut" back via incentives
Maybe they would trade for Daniel Jones next year. LOL
No kidding.
It just seem slike if anyone should be pissed its Baker.
It just seem slike if anyone should be pissed its Baker.
Baker should be grateful he’s employed. Why should he be pissed off? He isn’t that good and the browns wanted to upgrade qb.
Baker would be starting in Cleveland if he was good. He isn’t. He’s average.
It just seem slike if anyone should be pissed its Baker.
Baker should be grateful he’s employed. Why should he be pissed off? He isn’t that good and the browns wanted to upgrade qb.
Baker would be starting in Cleveland if he was good. He isn’t. He’s average.
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They didn't like how Baker handled it?
It just seem slike if anyone should be pissed its Baker.
Baker should be grateful he’s employed. Why should he be pissed off? He isn’t that good and the browns wanted to upgrade qb.
Baker would be starting in Cleveland if he was good. He isn’t. He’s average.
He did everything we would want a QB to do. Not use injuries as an excuse, play with a torn labrum in his shoulder, and a bad knee. Yeah he wasn't great considering the injuries We still want players to play hurt. I get the hard feelings considering he was dumped for a sex offender.
I see a possible New England reunion soon in Cleveland.
#domination
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In comment 15748053 Debaser said:
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They didn't like how Baker handled it?
It just seem slike if anyone should be pissed its Baker.
Baker should be grateful he’s employed. Why should he be pissed off? He isn’t that good and the browns wanted to upgrade qb.
Baker would be starting in Cleveland if he was good. He isn’t. He’s average.
He did everything we would want a QB to do. Not use injuries as an excuse, play with a torn labrum in his shoulder, and a bad knee. Yeah he wasn't great considering the injuries We still want players to play hurt. I get the hard feelings considering he was dumped for a sex offender.
yea i mean look if he was dumped simply because of the injuries ok fine, but I just don't think the guy is that good to begin with. He had a damn good team around him and never really scored many points or won that much. He's ok, you can do worse that's for sure, but if I am a team like the Browns with a window to compete for the next few year I want more out of the QB than just rah rah placeholder.
You can't resist can you lol.
No, I won't advocate for that kind of deal or at least I would feel some trepidation about it but not every statistical compiled season is created equally. Context...it's kind of a big deal.
Every play seems to be a designed rollout. He can't see the entire field. He's tough to be sure. He's vocal ( couldn't care less really) and you can win with him, but you won't win because of him. THat's why the Browns looked to Watson.
Baker is average. He's the very embodiment of average. He won't move the needle in Carolina but he won't be Sam Darnold either. Not a bad move to get him there.
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In comment 15748056 djm said:
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In comment 15748053 Debaser said:
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They didn't like how Baker handled it?
It just seem slike if anyone should be pissed its Baker.
Baker should be grateful he’s employed. Why should he be pissed off? He isn’t that good and the browns wanted to upgrade qb.
Baker would be starting in Cleveland if he was good. He isn’t. He’s average.
He did everything we would want a QB to do. Not use injuries as an excuse, play with a torn labrum in his shoulder, and a bad knee. Yeah he wasn't great considering the injuries We still want players to play hurt. I get the hard feelings considering he was dumped for a sex offender.
yea i mean look if he was dumped simply because of the injuries ok fine, but I just don't think the guy is that good to begin with. He had a damn good team around him and never really scored many points or won that much. He's ok, you can do worse that's for sure, but if I am a team like the Browns with a window to compete for the next few year I want more out of the QB than just rah rah placeholder.
Mayfield's biggest problem is his attitude.
I think he has decent QBing ability and moxie, but absolute garbage leadership abilities.
One of the least mature NFL QBs over the last two decades.
He asked to be traded and they wanted a upgrade. Hard to bring that combo back to your team. Now they have the Watson issue to deal with.
I don't think so, atleast not any serious posters. You didn't earn $35m with 1 above average year of football. And 2020 Baker didn't score 30 times, even prorated for 17 games.
But I'll take having that problem, I'm confident Schoen would do the right thing.
Carolina obviously has no confidence in Darnold. Nor should they. He'll likely be cut at the end of the year.
Carolina obviously has no confidence in Darnold. Nor should they. He'll likely be cut at the end of the year.
How do you really know that? Maybe since they were able to pick him up for a song figured -- why not?
Not me. But so what if there are some fans on BBI that would be ok with that after a season like that? What’s your point?
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If Jones wins 11/12 regular season games, wins a playoff game, and has 28/9 3800 YD in his contract year, I think plenty of BBIers would support paying Jones in the midrange for veteran starting QBs.
Not me. But so what if there are some fans on BBI that would be ok with that after a season like that? What’s your point?
My point is Mayfield just a season ago played at a level I believe a lot of fans would find very attractive if Jones hit.
And that 35M AAV is the going rate for a guy in the second tier of starting veteran starters.
So if Jones duplicates Mayfield's 2020, in 2022 what would you do?
If you total his throwing TDs from 2020, 2021 and 2022.
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In comment 15748136 christian said:
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If Jones wins 11/12 regular season games, wins a playoff game, and has 28/9 3800 YD in his contract year, I think plenty of BBIers would support paying Jones in the midrange for veteran starting QBs.
Not me. But so what if there are some fans on BBI that would be ok with that after a season like that? What’s your point?
My point is Mayfield just a season ago played at a level I believe a lot of fans would find very attractive if Jones hit.
And that 35M AAV is the going rate for a guy in the second tier of starting veteran starters.
So if Jones duplicates Mayfield's 2020, in 2022 what would you do?
That’s a tough question. I’m not Jones’ biggest fan based on previous results so it’ll take a lot to impress me. There are many variables at play. If I had to answer right now without any other context and he put up those numbers and led them to a playoff win? Based on where that would put them in the draft and assuming no other better options available, I’m signing him to the franchise tag. It would be costly but I’d want to see more evidence that he’s finally ready to be a franchise QB. One outlier season isn’t enough to commit to a long term deal. Do it again and we’ll talk
17 of his TD's were inside the 10, 11 inside the 5. I don't know how that stacks up against the rest of the league as far as TD %, but it shows me that he specifically doesn't really do much downfield despite having a great run game.
So if Jones has that type of year then no, you don't pay him $35m per year because it would mean that the run game is carrying the team.
Bazinga!
I know it's been beaten to death, but the Tannehill comp is a decent marker.
In 2020 he signed at ~29M AAV with the clear reality he was an efficient manager and the offense went through the run game.
Three seasons later and an expanded cap, 35M is a reasonable market for that type of player.
17 of his TD's were inside the 10, 11 inside the 5. I don't know how that stacks up against the rest of the league as far as TD %, but it shows me that he specifically doesn't really do much downfield despite having a great run game.
So if Jones has that type of year then no, you don't pay him $35m per year because it would mean that the run game is carrying the team.
You might be undervaluing good QB play in the red zone and over-valuing plays between the 20s.
If I had to pick where I wanted a QB to have success, it would be there where it's most critical. Pass plays inside the 10 are more difficult, not less. NFL defenses these days are willing to concede yards to get you to red zone defense. They want those situations. If a QB is accurate and productive in the red zone, that's a big key. The Giants moved the ball up and down the field as well as anyone under Joe Judge. They couldn't finish drives or play well in the red zone.
Giants were moving the ball as good as anyone between the 20's? They averaged 300 yards a game the last two years. They have been around that number for what seems like a decade with some outliers.
And then when you rewind to 2021, Mayfield was a top ten QB by QBR as he finished 10th, a half point behind Brady. He had a very solid 26/8 TD/INT ratio, top 15 in YPA and a decent 63% completion %. Plus, Mayfield was good in his two playoff games that year - registering a 57 and 90 QBR and a 4/1 TD/INT ratio.
For a one-year cap hit of $4.9M, this is a good roll of the dice...
No team was willing to pay him 5 mil and give up a 5th round pick, except the suck ass panthers with Darnold as QB
LOL - so why does Baker get credit for "playing fairly well" with a 53 QBR (for only a few games), but Jones doesn't get ANY credit from you for his 55.7 QBR (62%, 24/12) for the entire 2019 season?
Also - Baker has had ONE season where he had a better QBR than Jones. One!
Meanwhile, Mayfield faces a “prove it” year just like Jones.
LOL - so why does Baker get credit for "playing fairly well" with a 53 QBR (for only a few games), but Jones doesn't get ANY credit from you for his 55.7 QBR (62%, 24/12) for the entire 2019 season?
Also - Baker has had ONE season where he had a better QBR than Jones. One!
In relation to the rest of the league, Jones's QBR in 2019 placed him 18th in the league. And one more time, Mayfield's QBR in 2020 placed him in the top ten.
Jones has never been close to a top ten QB. Ever.
But that really wasn't the point of my post. The point was the Panthers have low risk with this move by being accountable for only $4.9M cap dollars, which isn't a bad deal for a team ensconced in "QB Hell"...
It’s a really crappy comparison that’s actually a whole lot closer than you are leading on.
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LOL - so why does Baker get credit for "playing fairly well" with a 53 QBR (for only a few games), but Jones doesn't get ANY credit from you for his 55.7 QBR (62%, 24/12) for the entire 2019 season?
Also - Baker has had ONE season where he had a better QBR than Jones. One!
In relation to the rest of the league, Jones's QBR in 2019 placed him 18th in the league. And one more time, Mayfield's QBR in 2020 placed him in the top ten.
Jones has never been close to a top ten QB. Ever.
But that really wasn't the point of my post. The point was the Panthers have low risk with this move by being accountable for only $4.9M cap dollars, which isn't a bad deal for a team ensconced in "QB Hell"...
LOL, so he's a top 10 QB because he had ONE good year out of FOUR?
You can try to pump him up all you want, but Baker is terrible. Especially given he has put up worse numbers (other than 2020) than Jones, even though he had a MUCH better supporting cast - on both sides of the ball.
But you do you....
If Mayfield + Browns put up 2020, in 2021, I think he'd get a nice extension.
If Jones does that next year, I'd wager he gets a nice extension.
I don't, either. But bw quotes it all the time as the gold standard, and doesn't like it when it gets thrown in his face to rebut his arguments.
They are all subjective grading and can be judged by a different person.
It’s a really crappy comparison that’s actually a whole lot closer than you are leading on.
I didn't bring Jones into this discussion. speedywheels did.
Mayfield isn’t terrible but you’re just being silly for the sake of argument. Must be bored again. Not many people were calling Mayfield terrible after 2020. But he hasn’t followed up with that and regressed considerably while playing with a damned good supporting cast. People have soured on him. But people were talking him up after 2020 and many felt he was on his way to being pretty damned good. If Jones has a similar season, people will have hopes he’s finally figured it out with pieces around him and a coaching staff that hopefully knows what the hell they are doing. But if he does a Mayfield and follows up the good season with another bad one, yes people will come to the conclusion he’s just not any good.
I’m not sure why you’re trying to insinuate that fans are giving Jones a pass while criticizing Mayfield. And make no mistake, that’s exactly what you’re trying to invent here.
LOL, so he's a top 10 QB because he had ONE good year out of FOUR?
You can try to pump him up all you want, but Baker is terrible. Especially given he has put up worse numbers (other than 2020) than Jones, even though he had a MUCH better supporting cast - on both sides of the ball.
But you do you....
I'm not sure why this is hard to absorb, but my main point is this is a good one-year deal for Carolina. And Mayfield has had moments that make him worth that investment.
But keep squirting lemon juice on your screen looking for some hidden meaning.
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of 65 and 35. Take that average and compare it to his 2 other years and that’s exactly what he is, which is a hair better than Jones despite the stark increase in talent around him.
It’s a really crappy comparison that’s actually a whole lot closer than you are leading on.
I didn't bring Jones into this discussion. speedywheels did.
I know, but your comment was your comment and I think it’s flawed.
I do agree it’s a cheap cost for Carolina, it took an absurd and unprecedented offseason for it to come about, however.
You astonishingly suck at guessing what I mean. You'd be way better off just trusting what I say, because I'm far less tricky than you think I am.
I think if Jones has an efficient season, and the Giants win a play off game, plenty of fans would want him extended to a middle tier, veteran contract. That's how I feel. That's a guess, I'm not guaranteeing that.
Mayfield had one of those seasons in year 3, in this hypothetical Jones has it in year 4.
If I was the GM I wouldn't conclude Mayfield sucks coming off an injury plagued season. And I wouldn't conclude Jones was worth a big contract after one solid year.
You probably also missed the part where I agrees with you about tagging him.
The Browns had no leverage. Mayfield was done there and the most of the league either has a qb or doesn’t like Mayfield very much. Was anyone else on him? Considering they paid $10m of his salary my guess is likely not.
Then pull out to the new stadium in the background!
We’re getting there folks...
Pipe down you. Go pray to your Glennon shrine while the big kids talk football.
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for cheaper than what we are paying our back up? I mean say what you will about Glennon but, at least he was not a 9 mil a year (with incentives) back up.
Pipe down you. Go pray to your Glennon shrine while the big kids talk football.
Yea it’s kind of pathetic that the Maras ; Gettleman; D Jones and Barkley left me with nothing to root for but a mike Glennon Cinderella story but what else is there? Daniel Jones waking up one morning and not be Daniel Jones any more?
Baker is better than DJones and it’s not even close. Heck Darnold is better than Jones.
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for cheaper than what we are paying our back up? I mean say what you will about Glennon but, at least he was not a 9 mil a year (with incentives) back up.
Pipe down you. Go pray to your Glennon shrine while the big kids talk football.
Whoa the big kids are talking football again and comparing a second to bottom of the league QB again to another player that no one who isn’t a giants homer would ever do! Excuse me.
And yes he’s a cuckold. I know because when I talk giants at a bar with random cuckolds they have the same attitude. They care more about rooting for a classy athlete than they care about winning. It’s wins and losses come second. Mara is the same way. At least I hope for his sake if not this guy needs to go into another business.
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But this is quite simple, if Mayfield is *terrible* (which I think is a massive exaggeration) -- if Jones has one pretty good season out of four, does that make him terrible too?
Mayfield isn’t terrible but you’re just being silly for the sake of argument. Must be bored again. Not many people were calling Mayfield terrible after 2020. But he hasn’t followed up with that and regressed considerably while playing with a damned good supporting cast. People have soured on him. But people were talking him up after 2020 and many felt he was on his way to being pretty damned good. If Jones has a similar season, people will have hopes he’s finally figured it out with pieces around him and a coaching staff that hopefully knows what the hell they are doing. But if he does a Mayfield and follows up the good season with another bad one, yes people will come to the conclusion he’s just not any good.
I’m not sure why you’re trying to insinuate that fans are giving Jones a pass while criticizing Mayfield. And make no mistake, that’s exactly what you’re trying to invent here.
You have to throw out 2021 when judging Baker. He played through severe injuries. That's not to say he's great. He clearly isn't great. But he's been much better than Darnold so far. Much better. Carolina and Ruhle finally have a solid if unspectacular QB.
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In comment 15748304 christian said:
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But this is quite simple, if Mayfield is *terrible* (which I think is a massive exaggeration) -- if Jones has one pretty good season out of four, does that make him terrible too?
Mayfield isn’t terrible but you’re just being silly for the sake of argument. Must be bored again. Not many people were calling Mayfield terrible after 2020. But he hasn’t followed up with that and regressed considerably while playing with a damned good supporting cast. People have soured on him. But people were talking him up after 2020 and many felt he was on his way to being pretty damned good. If Jones has a similar season, people will have hopes he’s finally figured it out with pieces around him and a coaching staff that hopefully knows what the hell they are doing. But if he does a Mayfield and follows up the good season with another bad one, yes people will come to the conclusion he’s just not any good.
I’m not sure why you’re trying to insinuate that fans are giving Jones a pass while criticizing Mayfield. And make no mistake, that’s exactly what you’re trying to invent here.
You have to throw out 2021 when judging Baker. He played through severe injuries. That's not to say he's great. He clearly isn't great. But he's been much better than Darnold so far. Much better. Carolina and Ruhle finally have a solid if unspectacular QB.
Should we throw out the last two years of Daniel Jones because he has injuries everywhere around him and an awful OC who could not catch on anywhere after he was fired? Even before his injury Mayfield was being heavily supported by the running game. They had 1 win against a playoff team with Mayfield as QB (against Cincy where he threw all of 21 times for 218 yards). Against the easiest part of their schedule (HOU, CHI, MIN) he had 2 TD and 1 INT. They ended up scoring 71 points over that timeframe because of running game and defense. The talent was there around him but he regressed badly and then blamed everyone else. Being better than Darnold is not an accomplishment. Daniel Jones was better (barely) than Darnold in their head to head matchup last year. I am no fan of Daniel Jones and would have offered him to Cleveland in a deal for Mayfield (because Brissett may be the worst starting QB), but need to call a spade a spade.
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In comment 15748311 BigBlueShock said:
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In comment 15748304 christian said:
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But this is quite simple, if Mayfield is *terrible* (which I think is a massive exaggeration) -- if Jones has one pretty good season out of four, does that make him terrible too?
Mayfield isn’t terrible but you’re just being silly for the sake of argument. Must be bored again. Not many people were calling Mayfield terrible after 2020. But he hasn’t followed up with that and regressed considerably while playing with a damned good supporting cast. People have soured on him. But people were talking him up after 2020 and many felt he was on his way to being pretty damned good. If Jones has a similar season, people will have hopes he’s finally figured it out with pieces around him and a coaching staff that hopefully knows what the hell they are doing. But if he does a Mayfield and follows up the good season with another bad one, yes people will come to the conclusion he’s just not any good.
I’m not sure why you’re trying to insinuate that fans are giving Jones a pass while criticizing Mayfield. And make no mistake, that’s exactly what you’re trying to invent here.
You have to throw out 2021 when judging Baker. He played through severe injuries. That's not to say he's great. He clearly isn't great. But he's been much better than Darnold so far. Much better. Carolina and Ruhle finally have a solid if unspectacular QB.
Should we throw out the last two years of Daniel Jones because he has injuries everywhere around him and an awful OC who could not catch on anywhere after he was fired? Even before his injury Mayfield was being heavily supported by the running game. They had 1 win against a playoff team with Mayfield as QB (against Cincy where he threw all of 21 times for 218 yards). Against the easiest part of their schedule (HOU, CHI, MIN) he had 2 TD and 1 INT. They ended up scoring 71 points over that timeframe because of running game and defense. The talent was there around him but he regressed badly and then blamed everyone else. Being better than Darnold is not an accomplishment. Daniel Jones was better (barely) than Darnold in their head to head matchup last year. I am no fan of Daniel Jones and would have offered him to Cleveland in a deal for Mayfield (because Brissett may be the worst starting QB), but need to call a spade a spade.
No. Daniel Jones was plenty healthy when he played poorly. I'm not sure why you're bringing Jones into this tbh. Mayfield played pretty well when healthy.
And yes he’s a cuckold. I know because when I talk giants at a bar with random cuckolds they have the same attitude. They care more about rooting for a classy athlete than they care about winning. It’s wins and losses come second. Mara is the same way. At least I hope for his sake if not this guy needs to go into another business.
What's pathetic is that you still allowed to pollute this site. And you still don't understand what that word means, and also don't know how to use it in a sentence.
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In comment 15748449 Producer said:
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In comment 15748311 BigBlueShock said:
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In comment 15748304 christian said:
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But this is quite simple, if Mayfield is *terrible* (which I think is a massive exaggeration) -- if Jones has one pretty good season out of four, does that make him terrible too?
Mayfield isn’t terrible but you’re just being silly for the sake of argument. Must be bored again. Not many people were calling Mayfield terrible after 2020. But he hasn’t followed up with that and regressed considerably while playing with a damned good supporting cast. People have soured on him. But people were talking him up after 2020 and many felt he was on his way to being pretty damned good. If Jones has a similar season, people will have hopes he’s finally figured it out with pieces around him and a coaching staff that hopefully knows what the hell they are doing. But if he does a Mayfield and follows up the good season with another bad one, yes people will come to the conclusion he’s just not any good.
I’m not sure why you’re trying to insinuate that fans are giving Jones a pass while criticizing Mayfield. And make no mistake, that’s exactly what you’re trying to invent here.
You have to throw out 2021 when judging Baker. He played through severe injuries. That's not to say he's great. He clearly isn't great. But he's been much better than Darnold so far. Much better. Carolina and Ruhle finally have a solid if unspectacular QB.
Should we throw out the last two years of Daniel Jones because he has injuries everywhere around him and an awful OC who could not catch on anywhere after he was fired? Even before his injury Mayfield was being heavily supported by the running game. They had 1 win against a playoff team with Mayfield as QB (against Cincy where he threw all of 21 times for 218 yards). Against the easiest part of their schedule (HOU, CHI, MIN) he had 2 TD and 1 INT. They ended up scoring 71 points over that timeframe because of running game and defense. The talent was there around him but he regressed badly and then blamed everyone else. Being better than Darnold is not an accomplishment. Daniel Jones was better (barely) than Darnold in their head to head matchup last year. I am no fan of Daniel Jones and would have offered him to Cleveland in a deal for Mayfield (because Brissett may be the worst starting QB), but need to call a spade a spade.
No. Daniel Jones was plenty healthy when he played poorly. I'm not sure why you're bringing Jones into this tbh. Mayfield played pretty well when healthy.
No he didn’t. He had one career year out of 4 when his running game and D were at their best and you want to make excuses for everything else. Mitch Trubisky had production yet teams weren’t lining up for him. Mayfield is not a good QB, an improvement over Jones or Darnold but that is not saying much.
And yes he’s a cuckold. I know because when I talk giants at a bar with random cuckolds they have the same attitude. They care more about rooting for a classy athlete than they care about winning. It’s wins and losses come second. Mara is the same way. At least I hope for his sake if not this guy needs to go into another business.
Started with Eli, then Gettleman, and now onto Jones...
At best you can say d jones played well as a rookie grading him on a huge curve. Even then on account of his many turnovers I don’t recall the giants playing with a lead one time.
Other myths — Garrett was an awful coach because no one else picked him up.
First off, how do you know after two teams and 10 plus years later he even wants to coach any more.?
Also, it’s not uncommon for even food coaches to take some time off before coaching again. Parcels coughlin Payton
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It never even occurred to cuckold Mara to pick up a phone and call the Browns about this.
And yes he’s a cuckold. I know because when I talk giants at a bar with random cuckolds they have the same attitude. They care more about rooting for a classy athlete than they care about winning. It’s wins and losses come second. Mara is the same way. At least I hope for his sake if not this guy needs to go into another business.
What's pathetic is that you still allowed to pollute this site. And you still don't understand what that word means, and also don't know how to use it in a sentence.
How many times are you going to say it? It’s kind of sad that when other posters come on here and say that despite offering an unpopular opinion— that I’m still right about Mara— you have to come on and contradict them. You know everything about debaser now and into the future and nothing else can change amen.
Further what is another good pejorative term for a wimpy old man? Cuckold fits just fine despite that I don’t know what his wife does.
You still don't know what that word means, lol.
Sam Darnold is better than..
Mike Glennon mention
Daniel Jones sucks…
I hit the Debaser bingo card!!
If you want to say he's stupid, then simply say he's stupid. If that isn't vitriolic enough for you, then google synonyms for the word. There are many. A refusal to do that, to continue using a word which you know to be contextually incorrect, makes you, well, stupid.
If you want to say he's stupid, then simply say he's stupid. If that isn't vitriolic enough for you, then google synonyms for the word. There are many. A refusal to do that, to continue using a word which you know to be contextually incorrect, makes you, well, stupid.
Ah yes it does appear you are foolishly assuming things. If you're going to come on strong at least get your facts rights about what I am saying about Mara.
I am not calling Mara a cuckold because he is clueless and gives out free medium Pepsi's. Although he is.
I am not calling Mara a cuckold because he is an incompetent Owner; although he is.
I am calling Mara a cuckold (and other Giants fans I met like him) because they have that older, conservative, do- gooder, wimp mentality that is very country club and very bourgeoisie. This weird value system has given us horrible football for how many years now?
It was great that Eli was a class act. It was icing on the cake. He was a pretty darn good football player. What does Mara think lightning is going to strike twice?
It's like I said this strange value system leads many to believe that playing in the NFL is the same level of competitiveness as a country club game of round Robin.
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In comment 15748453 Mike in NY said:
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In comment 15748449 Producer said:
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In comment 15748311 BigBlueShock said:
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In comment 15748304 christian said:
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But this is quite simple, if Mayfield is *terrible* (which I think is a massive exaggeration) -- if Jones has one pretty good season out of four, does that make him terrible too?
Mayfield isn’t terrible but you’re just being silly for the sake of argument. Must be bored again. Not many people were calling Mayfield terrible after 2020. But he hasn’t followed up with that and regressed considerably while playing with a damned good supporting cast. People have soured on him. But people were talking him up after 2020 and many felt he was on his way to being pretty damned good. If Jones has a similar season, people will have hopes he’s finally figured it out with pieces around him and a coaching staff that hopefully knows what the hell they are doing. But if he does a Mayfield and follows up the good season with another bad one, yes people will come to the conclusion he’s just not any good.
I’m not sure why you’re trying to insinuate that fans are giving Jones a pass while criticizing Mayfield. And make no mistake, that’s exactly what you’re trying to invent here.
You have to throw out 2021 when judging Baker. He played through severe injuries. That's not to say he's great. He clearly isn't great. But he's been much better than Darnold so far. Much better. Carolina and Ruhle finally have a solid if unspectacular QB.
Should we throw out the last two years of Daniel Jones because he has injuries everywhere around him and an awful OC who could not catch on anywhere after he was fired? Even before his injury Mayfield was being heavily supported by the running game. They had 1 win against a playoff team with Mayfield as QB (against Cincy where he threw all of 21 times for 218 yards). Against the easiest part of their schedule (HOU, CHI, MIN) he had 2 TD and 1 INT. They ended up scoring 71 points over that timeframe because of running game and defense. The talent was there around him but he regressed badly and then blamed everyone else. Being better than Darnold is not an accomplishment. Daniel Jones was better (barely) than Darnold in their head to head matchup last year. I am no fan of Daniel Jones and would have offered him to Cleveland in a deal for Mayfield (because Brissett may be the worst starting QB), but need to call a spade a spade.
No. Daniel Jones was plenty healthy when he played poorly. I'm not sure why you're bringing Jones into this tbh. Mayfield played pretty well when healthy.
No he didn’t. He had one career year out of 4 when his running game and D were at their best and you want to make excuses for everything else. Mitch Trubisky had production yet teams weren’t lining up for him. Mayfield is not a good QB, an improvement over Jones or Darnold but that is not saying much.
I'm referring to Jones' physical health. Yes, he battled late season injuries but we have enough of Jones playing healthy to start to make an assessment. As to Mayfield, I think we agree on his relative quality. He's probably a top 15 QB. Nothing more. But that's a big improvement over what Carolina was working with. And Ruhle has to get results starting now, it seems. I wouldn't be thrilled if Mayfield was the Giants starting QB. I want better, as it seems, so do you.
And yes he’s a cuckold. I know because when I talk giants at a bar with random cuckolds they have the same attitude. They care more about rooting for a classy athlete than they care about winning. It’s wins and losses come second. Mara is the same way. At least I hope for his sake if not this guy needs to go into another business.
Debaser -- this is straying into troll territory. If you keep it up we will suspend you. You are using a highly charged vulgar word improperly and riling posters up with it.
I am calling him one because he implements taunts rule changes on the committee he sits on because his country club sensitivities are offended. And further by subjecting us and jones longer than has been sensible to do so without any competition.
If you have a better word for that go ahead and say it.
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But this is quite simple, if Mayfield is *terrible* (which I think is a massive exaggeration) -- if Jones has one pretty good season out of four, does that make him terrible too?
Mayfield isn’t terrible but you’re just being silly for the sake of argument. Must be bored again. Not many people were calling Mayfield terrible after 2020. But he hasn’t followed up with that and regressed considerably while playing with a damned good supporting cast. People have soured on him. But people were talking him up after 2020 and many felt he was on his way to being pretty damned good. If Jones has a similar season, people will have hopes he’s finally figured it out with pieces around him and a coaching staff that hopefully knows what the hell they are doing. But if he does a Mayfield and follows up the good season with another bad one, yes people will come to the conclusion he’s just not any good.
I’m not sure why you’re trying to insinuate that fans are giving Jones a pass while criticizing Mayfield. And make no mistake, that’s exactly what you’re trying to invent here.
You have to throw out 2021 when judging Baker. He played through severe injuries. That's not to say he's great. He clearly isn't great. But he's been much better than Darnold so far. Much better. Carolina and Ruhle finally have a solid if unspectacular QB.
Should we throw out the last two years of Daniel Jones because he has injuries everywhere around him and an awful OC who could not catch on anywhere after he was fired? Even before his injury Mayfield was being heavily supported by the running game. They had 1 win against a playoff team with Mayfield as QB (against Cincy where he threw all of 21 times for 218 yards). Against the easiest part of their schedule (HOU, CHI, MIN) he had 2 TD and 1 INT. They ended up scoring 71 points over that timeframe because of running game and defense. The talent was there around him but he regressed badly and then blamed everyone else. Being better than Darnold is not an accomplishment. Daniel Jones was better (barely) than Darnold in their head to head matchup last year. I am no fan of Daniel Jones and would have offered him to Cleveland in a deal for Mayfield (because Brissett may be the worst starting QB), but need to call a spade a spade.
No. Daniel Jones was plenty healthy when he played poorly. I'm not sure why you're bringing Jones into this tbh. Mayfield played pretty well when healthy.
No he didn’t. He had one career year out of 4 when his running game and D were at their best and you want to make excuses for everything else. Mitch Trubisky had production yet teams weren’t lining up for him. Mayfield is not a good QB, an improvement over Jones or Darnold but that is not saying much.
I'm referring to Jones' physical health. Yes, he battled late season injuries but we have enough of Jones playing healthy to start to make an assessment. As to Mayfield, I think we agree on his relative quality. He's probably a top 15 QB. Nothing more. But that's a big improvement over what Carolina was working with. And Ruhle has to get results starting now, it seems. I wouldn't be thrilled if Mayfield was the Giants starting QB. I want better, as it seems, so do you.
I would not even say that Mayfield is a Top 15 QB
In no particular order I would not list him above
(1) Lamar Jackson
(2) Josh Allen
(3) Joe Burrow
(4) Russell Wilson
(5) Patrick Mahomes
(6) Derek Carr
(7) Justin Herbert
(8) Ryan Tannehill
(9) Kyler Murray
(10) Dak Prescott
(11) Aaron Rodgers
(12) Matt Stafford
(13) Tom Brady
(14) Tua Tagovailoa
(15) Mac Jones
(16) Trevor Lawrence
(17) Matt Ryan
(18) Kirk Cousins
Even after those 18 he is probably in same tier as Hurts, Wentz, Goff, whomever starts in SF.
That list also does not include Watson since he will be suspended this year. Had he played he would have been on the Top 19 list.
What a weird thing to stress over. Mara may be an ineffective owner now - but if you don’t think he cares about the team and organization - you couldn’t be more wrong.
Again - he won 2 Super Bowls.
I am calling him one because he implements taunts rule changes on the committee he sits on because his country club sensitivities are offended. And further by subjecting us and jones longer than has been sensible to do so without any competition.
If you have a better word for that go ahead and say it.
I'm reading what you're writing, and I'm responding by telling you that you're using the wrong word(s) to say what you want to say. I'm also telling you that your stubborn refusal to change your terminology when presented with that fact makes you look like a clown.
You're also attributing motives to John Mara without any foundation. "Country club sensitivities?" What does that even mean? You would have been better off using "Catholic sensitivities," but even then you would have been on thin ice. Not all Catholics are the same, just as not all country club members are the same. Regardless, your prejudice is showing. Call it "reverse snobbery," with a not-so-subtle hint of jealousy.
Had you read - and understood - what I wrote earlier, you would have seen that questioning his football acumen is fair game. Questioning his management skill would be, too. But neither makes him a wimp or a cuckold. Nor does stubbornness, misplaced loyalty, or a refusal to accept any blame for his poor decision-making.
You see, I can criticize him, too, without resorting to clownish behavior in the process.
What a weird thing to stress over. Mara may be an ineffective owner now - but if you don’t think he cares about the team and organization - you couldn’t be more wrong.
Again - he won 2 Super Bowls.
Mike Tomlin is on record applauding the taunting rule. He agrees with it 100%. But yeah, it’s all Maras fault!!!
To put it in context:
Everytime Mike Glennon has sex, Debaser has been cuckolded
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But this is quite simple, if Mayfield is *terrible* (which I think is a massive exaggeration) -- if Jones has one pretty good season out of four, does that make him terrible too?
Mayfield isn’t terrible but you’re just being silly for the sake of argument. Must be bored again. Not many people were calling Mayfield terrible after 2020. But he hasn’t followed up with that and regressed considerably while playing with a damned good supporting cast. People have soured on him. But people were talking him up after 2020 and many felt he was on his way to being pretty damned good. If Jones has a similar season, people will have hopes he’s finally figured it out with pieces around him and a coaching staff that hopefully knows what the hell they are doing. But if he does a Mayfield and follows up the good season with another bad one, yes people will come to the conclusion he’s just not any good.
I’m not sure why you’re trying to insinuate that fans are giving Jones a pass while criticizing Mayfield. And make no mistake, that’s exactly what you’re trying to invent here.
You have to throw out 2021 when judging Baker. He played through severe injuries. That's not to say he's great. He clearly isn't great. But he's been much better than Darnold so far. Much better. Carolina and Ruhle finally have a solid if unspectacular QB.
Should we throw out the last two years of Daniel Jones because he has injuries everywhere around him and an awful OC who could not catch on anywhere after he was fired? Even before his injury Mayfield was being heavily supported by the running game. They had 1 win against a playoff team with Mayfield as QB (against Cincy where he threw all of 21 times for 218 yards). Against the easiest part of their schedule (HOU, CHI, MIN) he had 2 TD and 1 INT. They ended up scoring 71 points over that timeframe because of running game and defense. The talent was there around him but he regressed badly and then blamed everyone else. Being better than Darnold is not an accomplishment. Daniel Jones was better (barely) than Darnold in their head to head matchup last year. I am no fan of Daniel Jones and would have offered him to Cleveland in a deal for Mayfield (because Brissett may be the worst starting QB), but need to call a spade a spade.
No. Daniel Jones was plenty healthy when he played poorly. I'm not sure why you're bringing Jones into this tbh. Mayfield played pretty well when healthy.
No he didn’t. He had one career year out of 4 when his running game and D were at their best and you want to make excuses for everything else. Mitch Trubisky had production yet teams weren’t lining up for him. Mayfield is not a good QB, an improvement over Jones or Darnold but that is not saying much.
I'm referring to Jones' physical health. Yes, he battled late season injuries but we have enough of Jones playing healthy to start to make an assessment. As to Mayfield, I think we agree on his relative quality. He's probably a top 15 QB. Nothing more. But that's a big improvement over what Carolina was working with. And Ruhle has to get results starting now, it seems. I wouldn't be thrilled if Mayfield was the Giants starting QB. I want better, as it seems, so do you.
I would not even say that Mayfield is a Top 15 QB
In no particular order I would not list him above
(1) Lamar Jackson
(2) Josh Allen
(3) Joe Burrow
(4) Russell Wilson
(5) Patrick Mahomes
(6) Derek Carr
(7) Justin Herbert
(8) Ryan Tannehill
(9) Kyler Murray
(10) Dak Prescott
(11) Aaron Rodgers
(12) Matt Stafford
(13) Tom Brady
(14) Tua Tagovailoa
(15) Mac Jones
(16) Trevor Lawrence
(17) Matt Ryan
(18) Kirk Cousins
Even after those 18 he is probably in same tier as Hurts, Wentz, Goff, whomever starts in SF.
That list also does not include Watson since he will be suspended this year. Had he played he would have been on the Top 19 list.
Love how overrated Tua and Mac Jones are, and underrated Wentz, Jimmy G, Lance, even Goff are to an extent.
Trevor Lawrence being top 18 is mostly college hype, so far.
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But this is quite simple, if Mayfield is *terrible* (which I think is a massive exaggeration) -- if Jones has one pretty good season out of four, does that make him terrible too?
Mayfield isn’t terrible but you’re just being silly for the sake of argument. Must be bored again. Not many people were calling Mayfield terrible after 2020. But he hasn’t followed up with that and regressed considerably while playing with a damned good supporting cast. People have soured on him. But people were talking him up after 2020 and many felt he was on his way to being pretty damned good. If Jones has a similar season, people will have hopes he’s finally figured it out with pieces around him and a coaching staff that hopefully knows what the hell they are doing. But if he does a Mayfield and follows up the good season with another bad one, yes people will come to the conclusion he’s just not any good.
I’m not sure why you’re trying to insinuate that fans are giving Jones a pass while criticizing Mayfield. And make no mistake, that’s exactly what you’re trying to invent here.
You have to throw out 2021 when judging Baker. He played through severe injuries. That's not to say he's great. He clearly isn't great. But he's been much better than Darnold so far. Much better. Carolina and Ruhle finally have a solid if unspectacular QB.
Should we throw out the last two years of Daniel Jones because he has injuries everywhere around him and an awful OC who could not catch on anywhere after he was fired? Even before his injury Mayfield was being heavily supported by the running game. They had 1 win against a playoff team with Mayfield as QB (against Cincy where he threw all of 21 times for 218 yards). Against the easiest part of their schedule (HOU, CHI, MIN) he had 2 TD and 1 INT. They ended up scoring 71 points over that timeframe because of running game and defense. The talent was there around him but he regressed badly and then blamed everyone else. Being better than Darnold is not an accomplishment. Daniel Jones was better (barely) than Darnold in their head to head matchup last year. I am no fan of Daniel Jones and would have offered him to Cleveland in a deal for Mayfield (because Brissett may be the worst starting QB), but need to call a spade a spade.
No. Daniel Jones was plenty healthy when he played poorly. I'm not sure why you're bringing Jones into this tbh. Mayfield played pretty well when healthy.
No he didn’t. He had one career year out of 4 when his running game and D were at their best and you want to make excuses for everything else. Mitch Trubisky had production yet teams weren’t lining up for him. Mayfield is not a good QB, an improvement over Jones or Darnold but that is not saying much.
I'm referring to Jones' physical health. Yes, he battled late season injuries but we have enough of Jones playing healthy to start to make an assessment. As to Mayfield, I think we agree on his relative quality. He's probably a top 15 QB. Nothing more. But that's a big improvement over what Carolina was working with. And Ruhle has to get results starting now, it seems. I wouldn't be thrilled if Mayfield was the Giants starting QB. I want better, as it seems, so do you.
I would not even say that Mayfield is a Top 15 QB
In no particular order I would not list him above
(1) Lamar Jackson
(2) Josh Allen
(3) Joe Burrow
(4) Russell Wilson
(5) Patrick Mahomes
(6) Derek Carr
(7) Justin Herbert
(8) Ryan Tannehill
(9) Kyler Murray
(10) Dak Prescott
(11) Aaron Rodgers
(12) Matt Stafford
(13) Tom Brady
(14) Tua Tagovailoa
(15) Mac Jones
(16) Trevor Lawrence
(17) Matt Ryan
(18) Kirk Cousins
Even after those 18 he is probably in same tier as Hurts, Wentz, Goff, whomever starts in SF.
That list also does not include Watson since he will be suspended this year. Had he played he would have been on the Top 19 list.
Love how overrated Tua and Mac Jones are, and underrated Wentz, Jimmy G, Lance, even Goff are to an extent.
Trevor Lawrence being top 18 is mostly college hype, so far.
I said it was in no particular order. I took a list of projected starting QB's and took the ones I would rank above Mayfield. Then I went through the list a second time to see if I missed anyone.
Mac Jones has as many playoff appearances as Baker Mayfield does. Jimmy G. knows how to win games, but he is also prone to having at least one "wtf" play in the process. When the D and ST can bail him out that is fine, but I think he would not look the same without that supporting cast. Lance has never been in a system where he had to throw 30+ times on a consistent basis. Can he do that if a game gets into a slugfest? Nobody knows Wentz better than Frank Reich and he was done with him after 1 year for good reason. If you look at the numbers you would wonder why he wasn't higher, but when you see the play in big games it is bad. Goff is not the same QB without McVay calling the plays. He looked better as the season went on in Detroit, but until he shows more I can't rate him higher than I do.
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But this is quite simple, if Mayfield is *terrible* (which I think is a massive exaggeration) -- if Jones has one pretty good season out of four, does that make him terrible too?
Logic like this goes over everyone's head.
I think the counter from the "Jones-is-the-unluckiest-player-in-NFL-history" crowd would be that Jones had a pretty good rookie season. So, that would be two out of four pretty good seasons...if you drink that Kool-Aid.
Calling Debaser “stupid “is an instance.
Without making a fetish out of stats Lawrence looks good on film, very textbook. You would think he eventually straightens things out. Then again I still don't like Josh Allen's mechanics so...
He's not wrong. It was a beyond stupid pick.
Without making a fetish out of stats Lawrence looks good on film, very textbook. You would think he eventually straightens things out. Then again I still don't like Josh Allen's mechanics so...
Jones never had a coach as woeful as Urban Meyer.
Yes, even Judge at his worst last year was still better.