for display only
Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

NFT: Mets Drafting Strategy

capone : 7/6/2022 6:02 pm
had someone suggest to me that they were running the mets who have no cash constraints they should blowup the draft pool pay the $ penalty and picks in the future.

clubs lose future picks: a first-rounder and a 75 percent tax for surpassing their pool by more than 5 and up to 10 percent; a first- and a second-rounder and a 100 percent tax for more than 10 and up to 15 percent; and two first-rounders and a 100 percent tax for more than 15 percent

Given the inherent expected value of a draft pick if the mets blow up the bonus pool and create more than 2 additional picks ( which in theory are late round picks) they could have a #1 system instantly.

for context pick 4 is about a $7m slot, pick 20 is about $3.5m and $2.8m get you pick 27 where you would expect they might choose on average over the next 2 years.

They have $14m pool so if they double that to say $28m they pay a $14m penalty but that additional draft capital could get you 4 additional picks at $3.5m ( = to the 20th pick slot ) or 2 picks at $7m ( bonus = to the 4th pick in the draft). Would you rather have 2 picks at say expected #25 in in the next 2 drafts or 5 guys now at the same slot this year? There are deals to be made with HS kids and the rest of teh league would only know it after its done.

the beefed up farm gives them allot of draft capital that 1 year out can converted to major league assets if they wish.

This does not account for time value either because a pick today at say #25 is worth more than #25 in future year - time value but acknowleding some drafts are deeper than others - this is considered a average very light on pitching so next year is likely to be a bit better but who knows?

Have not run this past anyone else in MLB but just wondering if anyone else heard that speculated. Cohen may not want to flex his checkbook as he will pay a political price for sure amoungst owners.
maybe i'm missing something  
capone : 7/6/2022 6:12 pm : link
and should have checked first but if the penalty is 1 first round pick up to 10% over and one more at 15% but NO additional penalty thereafter they are begging someone to do this and Uncle Stevie is just the guy... if im all wet will delete in shame -
tramuta and tanous were creative pre-cohen so it wouldn't shock me  
Eric on Li : 7/6/2022 6:15 pm : link
they all know how important this draft is because of all the capital they already have. see below.

my hedging answer is that if they think there are signable guys they really like, they would do something like this. Maybe not to the extreme degree but if they think they are getting an extra first rounder now instead of next year and the penalty is a 1st rounder and some tax $, why not just do it? they are essentially borrowing against a future pick and fast tracking development.

but i think you only do it for players you really like (duh). not just a highly ranked guy who happens to fall.
Why 2022 MLB Draft approach is so important for Mets: A Q&A with New York’s scouting director - ( New Window )
they could tell the 3 best guys in the draft they are good at $8m each  
capone : 7/6/2022 6:25 pm : link
HS kids put out a big number like that ... they have picks 11, 14 and 52 for a total slot of $10.5m .. spend the $14m extra and get 3 of teh top 5 guys some of those clubs will not meet that price and go on to the next kid.
RE: tramuta and tanous were creative pre-cohen so it wouldn't shock me  
capone : 7/6/2022 6:31 pm : link
In comment 15748244 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
they all know how important this draft is because of all the capital they already have. see below.

my hedging answer is that if they think there are signable guys they really like, they would do something like this. Maybe not to the extreme degree but if they think they are getting an extra first rounder now instead of next year and the penalty is a 1st rounder and some tax $, why not just do it? they are essentially borrowing against a future pick and fast tracking development.

but i think you only do it for players you really like (duh). not just a highly ranked guy who happens to fall. Why 2022 MLB Draft approach is so important for Mets: A Q&A with New York’s scouting director - ( New Window )


the point is if those are the current rules why go 11% over and not 100%
capone is this just a suggestion  
ZGiants98 : 7/6/2022 7:22 pm : link
or is there any legitimacy to the Mets thinking about doing this?
a thing to consider too, if they don't do away with the QO system  
CMicks3110 : 7/6/2022 8:23 pm : link
they have a bunch of players that they can attach a QO and get that draft capital back. Nimmo, Bassitt, Walker, deGrom, Diaz. Have to think that they lose at least 2 of those players.
I have no doubt that Cohen would pay a political price among the owner  
CooperDash : 7/6/2022 8:28 pm : link
and, frankly, it’s crap. Did the Dodgers pay a political price among the owners when they flexed their checkbook? When have the Yankees ever paid a political price among the owners in the eons that they flex their checkbook? If I were to advise Cohen I would tell him to fuck them all.

In a league with a bunch of billionaires that are shitty people, for some reason they’ve had it out for Cohen since day one. What can they really do anyway? I tell Cohen to flex all the money he wants and let them cry into their Cheerios. It’s like the world just wants the Mets to suck forever for no apparent reason.
id rather cohen pay a political price to build an awesome farm  
Eric on Li : 7/6/2022 8:31 pm : link
vs. being hated for signing free agent deals that become regrettable really quickly.

building a top farm system doesn't just give you good cheap players but the ability to make the trades you want for veterans before they reach free agency, and ideally to extend them more favorably.
I'm not sure it's a good strategy or not  
pjcas18 : 7/6/2022 8:51 pm : link
I don't really understand it, but what can the other owners possibly do at this point that would be punitive?

not trade with the Mets?

I don't think the other owners really have much leverage.

I think Cohen and the Mets should use every tool at their disposal to win and sustain winning.

..  
Named Later : 7/6/2022 10:29 pm : link
IMO, that seems like a high-risk, medium-reward strategy. Any kid drafted this year is 3 maybe 4 years away from the Bigs. And young Pitching comes with a chance of injury in the minors.

Rather than risk the wrath of all the other owners by upsetting the pool, why not just spend the money in Free Agency and get proven MLB talent.
We had to watch team after team game the system and bend the rules  
CooperDash : 7/6/2022 11:22 pm : link
with zero repercussions while the crooked Wilpons played the part of good soldier to Selig because they were “friends”. Now when the Mets finally have the means to even the score or, gasp, take advantage…we shouldn’t? Crazy talk.
They should do everything and anything they can  
moespree : 7/7/2022 12:12 am : link
To continue to put together the best possible team and franchise they can. If the other owners get their feelings hurt that's too bad.
RE: ..  
capone : 7/7/2022 1:52 am : link
In comment 15748411 Named Later said:
Quote:
IMO, that seems like a high-risk, medium-reward strategy. Any kid drafted this year is 3 maybe 4 years away from the Bigs. And young Pitching comes with a chance of injury in the minors.

Rather than risk the wrath of all the other owners by upsetting the pool, why not just spend the money in Free Agency and get proven MLB talent.


If you Look at the history of top 5 picks ($7-8m bonuses) they generate MUCH more war of the 6 years of salary control that picks at 25-30. With the penalty and additional bonus paid of say $15m per player that’s only about 2 additional War at a cost of $6-7m per additional war as market cost in free agency … it’s a inefficiently priced system that a guy like Cohen knows how to exploit he acknowledged that the draft even accounting for busts has built in profits over time given the cost control for 6 years
It’s effectively what the Yankees did  
bhill410 : 7/7/2022 2:45 am : link
To break the international signing bracket.

I am still not sure I give up 2 future drafts to do it and I am also not sure Cohen wants to pay say 100 million up front cash if the players aren’t sitting there in second round. This is also the last year you can do this effectively with some of the rules coming in place next year (player must get 75% of slot). Which I think will lead to less dropping.
It’s only a good strategy  
Vanzetti : 7/7/2022 4:14 pm : link
It’s only a good strategy If you are confident that you will be picking at the end of the first round. Forfeiting pick 32 very different from Forfeitingpick five
RE: It’s effectively what the Yankees did  
capone : 7/7/2022 6:23 pm : link
In comment 15748445 bhill410 said:
Quote:
To break the international signing bracket.

I am still not sure I give up 2 future drafts to do it and I am also not sure Cohen wants to pay say 100 million up front cash if the players aren’t sitting there in second round. This is also the last year you can do this effectively with some of the rules coming in place next year (player must get 75% of slot). Which I think will lead to less dropping.


It’s not about less players dropping it’s going to the top 10 HS kids and agree to a number that others won’t like ( anything over their slot for the most part ) the kid says I’ll go to vandy etc unless you give me $8m ( or 5/6/7) and Cohen picks him even in rounds 3 or 4 he could create several more first round picks with much higher expected war than a late 20s pick in the next few years
The Mets are in a position to really shake things up  
capone : 7/9/2022 2:42 pm : link
Here is another scenario without blowing up the bonus pool limit
Link - ( New Window )
RE: The Mets are in a position to really shake things up  
Mike in NY : 7/9/2022 3:40 pm : link
In comment 15750042 capone said:
Quote:
Here is another scenario without blowing up the bonus pool limit Link - ( New Window )


Not sure I like the strategy of tanking Pick 14 to make the money work versus looking at getting savings spread out over multiple picks.

Giving Jones $9,000,000 leaves you approximately $5,652,000 for your remaining picks. Slot for picks 14 and the rest total $9,177,500. If Mets spend 61.5% of slot for all of their remaining picks you get $5,644,162.50. 14th slot multiplied by that percentage is $2,608,584 or the equivalent of 28th/29th slot money. Someone like Adam Mazur or Spencer Jones have not been talked of as 1st Rounders yet both had strong Cape seasons in 2021 and followed it up this year while offering some upside. If offered $2,600,000 would they sign to be 14th overall pick?
RE: The Mets are in a position to really shake things up  
Eric on Li : 7/9/2022 3:50 pm : link
In comment 15750042 capone said:
Quote:
Here is another scenario without blowing up the bonus pool limit Link - ( New Window )


now that is super interesting, and something they'd have to consider. to make it really work, I think you'd probably want to go after either 2nd or 3rd pick in the draft instead of #1 because then you could still have $1-2m to get a good prospect with the other first and not fully tank it, plus a little more cushion to outbid the competition. If Baltimore really wanted Jones they could match above slot pretty easily.
Boy as tempting as either of the two strategies are  
Shecky : 7/9/2022 4:15 pm : link
I think the team views this as an amazing opportunity to build up the depth of the farm. I don’t see them taking risks.
RE: RE: The Mets are in a position to really shake things up  
capone : 7/9/2022 8:30 pm : link
In comment 15750062 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 15750042 capone said:


Quote:


Here is another scenario without blowing up the bonus pool limit Link - ( New Window )

Look at their history of paying full slot let alone going over I don’t see it … if I’m the Mets getting the top pick is more attractive than there two picks , history tells you that



now that is super interesting, and something they'd have to consider. to make it really work, I think you'd probably want to go after either 2nd or 3rd pick in the draft instead of #1 because then you could still have $1-2m to get a good prospect with the other first and not fully tank it, plus a little more cushion to outbid the competition. If Baltimore really wanted Jones they could match above slot pretty easily.
RE: RE: RE: The Mets are in a position to really shake things up  
Mike in NY : 7/9/2022 8:32 pm : link
In comment 15750180 capone said:
Quote:
In comment 15750062 Eric on Li said:


Quote:


In comment 15750042 capone said:


Quote:


Here is another scenario without blowing up the bonus pool limit Link - ( New Window )

Look at their history of paying full slot let alone going over I don’t see it … if I’m the Mets getting the top pick is more attractive than there two picks , history tells you that



now that is super interesting, and something they'd have to consider. to make it really work, I think you'd probably want to go after either 2nd or 3rd pick in the draft instead of #1 because then you could still have $1-2m to get a good prospect with the other first and not fully tank it, plus a little more cushion to outbid the competition. If Baltimore really wanted Jones they could match above slot pretty easily.



I get it, but considering after Round 1 or 2 the difference in players who will sign for slot versus no more than 61.5% of slot isn’t that great so rather than ranking completely on 14 I would prefer the strategy that I described in my previous post.
Baltimore has no history of going over slot  
capone : 7/9/2022 9:53 pm : link
But they do go under
Back to the Corner