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NFT: Mets at Reds Game 3. Peterson

ZGiants98 : 7/6/2022 7:05 pm
Mets Lineup

CF Nimmo
RF Marte
SS Lindor
1B Alonso
LF McNeil
DH Smith
3B Escobar
2B Guillorme
C Nido

LHP Peterson

Mets up 1-0 early. LFGM!
Can't lose to these turkeys again today.  
Optimus-NY : 7/6/2022 7:25 pm : link
Sheesh.
RJ Alvarez down  
ZGiants98 : 7/6/2022 7:26 pm : link
for Peterson tonight.
Yeah... off nights will happen  
ZGiants98 : 7/6/2022 7:26 pm : link
But the Mets gotta win this one.
G Cohen not as good without  
Debaser : 7/6/2022 7:46 pm : link
Keith and Ron
6 HRs for  
ZGiants98 : 7/6/2022 7:55 pm : link
Syracuse already.
Geez, Peterson is AWFUL tonight  
speedywheels : 7/6/2022 8:23 pm : link
5 walks - 3 in this inning - and 4 hits, and it's only the 4th. Yikes...
At what point do you make a change, any change, to shake things up?  
CooperDash : 7/6/2022 9:17 pm : link
This team is hard to watch.
Just let the ball hit you, Dom. You had TWO opportunities.  
CooperDash : 7/6/2022 9:31 pm : link
And this HP ump has been trash all game long.
This ump sucks tonight.  
ZGiants98 : 7/6/2022 9:34 pm : link
Welp. Mets about to be only 1.5 up.
Another awful strike call that puts the hitter in an 0-2 count  
CooperDash : 7/6/2022 9:48 pm : link
and forces him to make a defensive swing for a weak pop out.

And now another one to McNeil. This guy is soooo bad.
Bring on the robo umps  
ZGiants98 : 7/6/2022 9:49 pm : link
This is a joke.
Whoo  
ZGiants98 : 7/6/2022 9:53 pm : link
Hoo!
Yea  
PakistanPete : 7/6/2022 9:53 pm : link
!
A little Marte Magic - I love it.  
CooperDash : 7/6/2022 9:54 pm : link
And I thought it was foul too. Could use a little luck right now.
Ugh  
CooperDash : 7/6/2022 9:55 pm : link
Pete
Dom  
PakistanPete : 7/6/2022 10:13 pm : link
:)
Bottom of the lineup putting in the work late  
CooperDash : 7/6/2022 10:17 pm : link
in the game!
Fun game  
ZGiants98 : 7/6/2022 10:18 pm : link
McCann definitely needed that.
Nimmo is just the best  
ZGiants98 : 7/6/2022 10:23 pm : link
Awesome.
Im not a Dom fan anymore by a long shot  
ZGiants98 : 7/6/2022 10:24 pm : link
But you gotta run him out there for a couple of weeks after the last few days at DH.
Never thought I'd be so happy taking 2/3 from the dreadful Reds  
dannysection 313 : 7/6/2022 10:40 pm : link
Sure would be nice if the Braves stopped winning every game.

The Braves are getting very close. We need our hitters to step up.  
Ira : 7/7/2022 7:19 am : link
Losing Scherzer's excellent start was very weak.
RE: Im not a Dom fan anymore by a long shot  
Beezer : 7/7/2022 9:05 am : link
In comment 15748407 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
But you gotta run him out there for a couple of weeks after the last few days at DH.


Not sure if you saw the SNY broadcast last night but they showed a side-by-side of his stance - early season v. now - and he's opened up the stance considerably. That alteration seems to have coincided with him heating up.

I don't have delusions that he'll start hitting dingers, but a line-drive .300 hitter in that lineup 4/5 times a week would be really nice.
RE: RE: Im not a Dom fan anymore by a long shot  
KDavies : 7/7/2022 9:50 am : link
In comment 15748496 Beezer said:
Quote:
In comment 15748407 ZGiants98 said:


Quote:


But you gotta run him out there for a couple of weeks after the last few days at DH.



Not sure if you saw the SNY broadcast last night but they showed a side-by-side of his stance - early season v. now - and he's opened up the stance considerably. That alteration seems to have coincided with him heating up.

I don't have delusions that he'll start hitting dingers, but a line-drive .300 hitter in that lineup 4/5 times a week would be really nice.


Dom is better when he gets consistently playing time IMO. It's hard because if he doesn't play well in the short time, why give him more PT? Last year, he was real hot in spring training after a monster shortened season where he was their best hitter, then things were shut down. He really never got going again. This year, he hit well in spring, then the Mets start Cano, and then Davis gets the bulk of the playing time.

All along, I've said it should be Dom, with Davis against lefties. Dom wouldn't be posting a .993 OPS like he did in 2020, but the overall DH numbers would be a lot better IMO.

One of the few missteps by Showalter, though probably not just his decision
that said, I think Dom is ultimately trade bait for pitching  
KDavies : 7/7/2022 9:53 am : link
with Vientos, Baty, and Alvarez knocking on the doorstep, Dom isn't good enough to justify consistent playing time beyond this year with the Mets depth. IMO, he will go on to an Oakland or a Cincy and be a good asset for them
Gotta  
DanMetroMan : 7/7/2022 10:08 am : link
say the one move that MANY of us pushed for but didn't happen, sure looks like it would have made a real difference... signing Schwarber.
RE: Gotta  
Gmanfandan : 7/7/2022 10:16 am : link
In comment 15748552 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
say the one move that MANY of us pushed for but didn't happen, sure looks like it would have made a real difference... signing Schwarber.
Yah but was that ever a thing? If I remember the talk was Schwarber showed no interest in playing in NY.
Dom is strictly a right hand pitching option.
This gets old - but we need another arm - preferably left handed reliever and a starter (Castillo) if they are a top of the rotation type... and another bat.
RE: RE: Gotta  
DanMetroMan : 7/7/2022 10:19 am : link
In comment 15748560 Gmanfandan said:
Quote:
In comment 15748552 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


say the one move that MANY of us pushed for but didn't happen, sure looks like it would have made a real difference... signing Schwarber.

Yah but was that ever a thing? If I remember the talk was Schwarber showed no interest in playing in NY.
Dom is strictly a right hand pitching option.
This gets old - but we need another arm - preferably left handed reliever and a starter (Castillo) if they are a top of the rotation type... and another bat.


The Mets reportedly didn't even approach him. They felt they were fine at DH. Not sure how Schwarber could have "shown interest" without the Mets or Yankees trying to sign him.
would have been a perfect signing...  
Italianju : 7/7/2022 10:24 am : link
and would have saved us from having to use prospects to get a bat upgrade
I  
DanMetroMan : 7/7/2022 10:24 am : link
can't find a single mention of Schwarber not having interest in playing in NY. Nor do I recall anything like that, Realmuto there was talk of that.
I would take Schwarber obviously  
KDavies : 7/7/2022 10:42 am : link
but he does have a 4 year, $79 million contract. My guess is the Mets would have had more interest in him on a 1 or 2 year deal. By 4 years, they have Alvarez, Vientos, and Baty coming up. Alvarez will need DH time. Vientos is most likely a DH. Baty has some defensive concerns.

I get not paying $20 million a year for four years for a terrible defensive player
He's  
DanMetroMan : 7/7/2022 10:45 am : link
on pace for 4.6 fWAR, who cares where he derives his value from? And as much as I like Vientos, what would have been wrong with having both?
29  
DanMetroMan : 7/7/2022 10:46 am : link
year olds coming off 145 wRC+ seasons, 2.8 fWAR, 32 homers (despite playing only 113 games) aren't signing for 1-2 years
plus you have to keep in mind  
KDavies : 7/7/2022 10:47 am : link
the Mets also had Cano (with that contract), plus they had Smith and Davis as DH options.
RE: He's  
KDavies : 7/7/2022 10:50 am : link
In comment 15748591 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
on pace for 4.6 fWAR, who cares where he derives his value from? And as much as I like Vientos, what would have been wrong with having both?


Nothing wrong with having both. I'm just saying, I understand the Mets putting money into Scherzer, Escobar, Canha, Marte, Bassitt vs. a strictly DH player, when they already had Cano, Davis, and Smith.
The  
DanMetroMan : 7/7/2022 10:50 am : link
Mets offense has been a bat short since before the season ever began. This much was evident. This isn't revisionist. We knew odds are they were going to get very little offense from their C and were hoping multiple hitters coming off bad 2021's would bounce back. McNeil did. Dom/JDD/McCann have not (none have any track record of success so it was a silly gamble).
i think martino mentioned Schwarber at some point during lockout  
Eric on Li : 7/7/2022 10:54 am : link
but then post-lockout they took the approach of being opportunistic for the extra bat.

i would guess part of that was the fact that they were expected to trade 1 of Dom/JDD/McNeil and simply never did.

Schwarber was very obviously a perfect fit for this lineup behind Alonso. Big miss since he got a reasonable deal. True impact hitter.
They  
DanMetroMan : 7/7/2022 10:56 am : link
have actually been relatively healthy lineup wise despite being one of the oldest teams in baseball but their catchers have a combined 47 wRC+, DH's 84 wRC+, 3B 94 wRC+. That's rough on a day in, day out basis. They have fallen to 20th in ISO and 19th in home runs. Without Alonso, I don't know where they would be offensively.
RE: i think martino mentioned Schwarber at some point during lockout  
DanMetroMan : 7/7/2022 10:58 am : link
In comment 15748607 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
but then post-lockout they took the approach of being opportunistic for the extra bat.

i would guess part of that was the fact that they were expected to trade 1 of Dom/JDD/McNeil and simply never did.

Schwarber was very obviously a perfect fit for this lineup behind Alonso. Big miss since he got a reasonable deal. True impact hitter.


What Alonso has been able to do with relatively little protection is amazing. Nelson Cruz in theory would be a nice fit because he remains a proven "scary" hitter that pitchers know they can't mess around with, I don't think pitchers are too worried about grooving one to Benintendi in the same way.
Davis  
DanMetroMan : 7/7/2022 10:59 am : link
sure seems like one of those guys who looks the part and some of the underlying numbers are good but then you see enough sample size to see he's a flawed hitter. He's turning 30 years old, this isn't a young hitter trying to find his way.
RE: RE: i think martino mentioned Schwarber at some point during lockout  
Eric on Li : 7/7/2022 11:03 am : link
In comment 15748610 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 15748607 Eric on Li said:


Quote:


but then post-lockout they took the approach of being opportunistic for the extra bat.

i would guess part of that was the fact that they were expected to trade 1 of Dom/JDD/McNeil and simply never did.

Schwarber was very obviously a perfect fit for this lineup behind Alonso. Big miss since he got a reasonable deal. True impact hitter.



What Alonso has been able to do with relatively little protection is amazing. Nelson Cruz in theory would be a nice fit because he remains a proven "scary" hitter that pitchers know they can't mess around with, I don't think pitchers are too worried about grooving one to Benintendi in the same way.


agreed - i like benintendi but i think he's basically a younger/better version of canha. he'd add depth to the lineup but i doubt he moves mcneil off 5th.

i actually like mcneil hitting 5th because he's the most clutch hitter on the team, especially with 2 outs, so if you put alonso on or 2 on he's the guy i want up.

Cruz 6th would be really great to protect mcneil, then canha/escobar/mccann can hopefully give them some semblance of a threat in the bottom 1/3. with vientos/alvarez maybe options to contribute in that bottom of the order over the last couple months.

does JDD have any options left? fangraphs says 2 but they aren't always right. it seems like a no brainer to me to let him go down and get back in a groove over a couple weeks and give vientos a look. I would guess JDD will hit like 5 homers in 2 weeks down there and maybe get some confidence back, which id think will help his trade value more than riding the bench.
Davis  
DanMetroMan : 7/7/2022 11:06 am : link
does in fact have 2 options remaining
Dan, the first thing I said about Schwarber was the following:  
KDavies : 7/7/2022 11:07 am : link
"I would take Schwarber obviously"

I'm just saying, there are concerns about the player. By the end of April, he was hitting .169 with a .720 OPS. By the end of May, he was at .185 with a .721 OPS. All with terrible defense. Harper is on the DL now, so Schwarber can DH. But for a time he was having to play the OF because Harper had to DH because he didn't field.

My dad and uncle are Phillies diehards. They hated Schwarber the first two months of the season.

Obviously, that's who Schwarber is. He may be the streakiest hitter in the league. When he's hot, he can carry a team. We've seen him do it with the Cubs, the Nationals, and the Sox at times. But let's not pretend he doesn't have his limitations. He was pretty much useless for the Phillies for two months, and was a big part of why they got off to such a slow start.

Cruz would be an excellent trade target  
KDavies : 7/7/2022 11:13 am : link
he should be cheap in a vacuum.

However, I don't know where the Nationals mind is at. Eric mentioned Butto in a trade for Cruz. How much was Cruz signed as a trade chip, vs. how much was he signed to provide some protection for Soto in the lineup? Is a Butto enough to ship off a Cruz, and let your franchise player without any protection in the lineup for the rest of the season? If I'm the Nationals, I'm certainly wanting more than a Butto.
RE: Davis  
Eric on Li : 7/7/2022 11:14 am : link
In comment 15748621 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
does in fact have 2 options remaining


im still a JDD believer in that I don't think the numbers he put up in 2019 and the exit velocities he posted are a fluke. I think he has real hitting ability.

but i don't think he's a fit for the mets situation. i think like Dom he needs more regular playing time somewhere - which is probably why they've been trying to trade him for 2 years. and that his general talent is more likely on the lucas duda level of putting up nice stats vs. mediocre pitching but falls short against better pitching.

since he can't play defense there's even less of a chance to continue giving him at bats than Dom right now. At least Dom plays a good 1b and has the versatility to go to the OF in an emergency situation.
Schwarber  
DanMetroMan : 7/7/2022 11:14 am : link
was a league average hitter even during his awful start (99 wRC+ and 102) with 11 homers over his first 173 ab's (which is a 30 homer pace). He's a streaky hitter but at the end of the day puts up his numbers. Most sub-superstar power hitters are going to have hot and cold streaks, maybe even long ones.
As  
DanMetroMan : 7/7/2022 11:16 am : link
I noted yesterday, the Rays gave up a "legit" prospect for Cruz last season (Joe Ryan) though Cruz was a year younger and having a much better season, so a Butto type might not be an unrealistic cost.
RE: Dan, the first thing I said about Schwarber was the following:  
Eric on Li : 7/7/2022 11:19 am : link
In comment 15748622 KDavies said:
Quote:
"I would take Schwarber obviously"

I'm just saying, there are concerns about the player. By the end of April, he was hitting .169 with a .720 OPS. By the end of May, he was at .185 with a .721 OPS. All with terrible defense. Harper is on the DL now, so Schwarber can DH. But for a time he was having to play the OF because Harper had to DH because he didn't field.

My dad and uncle are Phillies diehards. They hated Schwarber the first two months of the season.

Obviously, that's who Schwarber is. He may be the streakiest hitter in the league. When he's hot, he can carry a team. We've seen him do it with the Cubs, the Nationals, and the Sox at times. But let's not pretend he doesn't have his limitations. He was pretty much useless for the Phillies for two months, and was a big part of why they got off to such a slow start.


this is my speculation, but i think in a different lineup and spot in the lineup Schwarber might be able to minimize the valleys. if you look at his career splits hitting leadoff his average is lower than anywhere else by about 20 points. also his BA with nobody on base is a little lower than with men on base.

again just speculation but i think hitting mostly leadoff the last 2 years he's basically up there with the approach of homer or walk almost every at bat. in a different spot of the order with a slightly different approach i think he's a slightly different hitter.
RE: Schwarber  
KDavies : 7/7/2022 11:25 am : link
In comment 15748627 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
was a league average hitter even during his awful start (99 wRC+ and 102) with 11 homers over his first 173 ab's (which is a 30 homer pace). He's a streaky hitter but at the end of the day puts up his numbers. Most sub-superstar power hitters are going to have hot and cold streaks, maybe even long ones.


He needs to be more than a league average hitter, considering he is as bad a defensive player as there is in the league and has a $20 million a year contract
RE: As  
KDavies : 7/7/2022 11:26 am : link
In comment 15748629 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
I noted yesterday, the Rays gave up a "legit" prospect for Cruz last season (Joe Ryan) though Cruz was a year younger and having a much better season, so a Butto type might not be an unrealistic cost.


In a vacuum, I agree. But is a Butto type enough for the Nationals to trade what little protection Soto has?
RE: RE: Dan, the first thing I said about Schwarber was the following:  
KDavies : 7/7/2022 11:30 am : link
In comment 15748634 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 15748622 KDavies said:


Quote:


"I would take Schwarber obviously"

I'm just saying, there are concerns about the player. By the end of April, he was hitting .169 with a .720 OPS. By the end of May, he was at .185 with a .721 OPS. All with terrible defense. Harper is on the DL now, so Schwarber can DH. But for a time he was having to play the OF because Harper had to DH because he didn't field.

My dad and uncle are Phillies diehards. They hated Schwarber the first two months of the season.

Obviously, that's who Schwarber is. He may be the streakiest hitter in the league. When he's hot, he can carry a team. We've seen him do it with the Cubs, the Nationals, and the Sox at times. But let's not pretend he doesn't have his limitations. He was pretty much useless for the Phillies for two months, and was a big part of why they got off to such a slow start.




this is my speculation, but i think in a different lineup and spot in the lineup Schwarber might be able to minimize the valleys. if you look at his career splits hitting leadoff his average is lower than anywhere else by about 20 points. also his BA with nobody on base is a little lower than with men on base.

again just speculation but i think hitting mostly leadoff the last 2 years he's basically up there with the approach of homer or walk almost every at bat. in a different spot of the order with a slightly different approach i think he's a slightly different hitter.


Good point. I checked a couple recent box scores because I wondered if they had moved him, but he's still been leading off through this hot streak.

I don't like him in leadoff, but I'm far from the analytics type. On the Mets, I'd be shocked if he hit leadoff. Keep Nimmo there, and give Schwarber some 2 run HRs. Phillies don't have a lot of leadoff options, so I guess it works for them.
The  
DanMetroMan : 7/7/2022 11:33 am : link
Nationals are 24 games under .500, the team is for sale and Cruz for all of the "he could help" still has a .691 OPS, .685 over the last month, so yeah I think if the Nationals felt Butto would remain a SP he'd be around the level of prospect they would hope to get back. His market isn't going to be overly robust at roughly 7.5 million for half a season + prospect cost.
RE: The  
KDavies : 7/7/2022 11:39 am : link
In comment 15748655 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Nationals are 24 games under .500, the team is for sale and Cruz for all of the "he could help" still has a .691 OPS, .685 over the last month, so yeah I think if the Nationals felt Butto would remain a SP he'd be around the level of prospect they would hope to get back. His market isn't going to be overly robust at roughly 7.5 million for half a season + prospect cost.


I don't think it's as cut and dry as the usual "we suck, let's just get what players we can for the players that aren't part of the future." The Nationals also have to weigh in the fact that their 23 year old superstar will be getting even less good pitches to hit. I really hope for Soto's sake he is traded (preferably to the Mets)
RE: RE: RE: Dan, the first thing I said about Schwarber was the following:  
Eric on Li : 7/7/2022 11:43 am : link
In comment 15748649 KDavies said:
Quote:



Good point. I checked a couple recent box scores because I wondered if they had moved him, but he's still been leading off through this hot streak.

I don't like him in leadoff, but I'm far from the analytics type. On the Mets, I'd be shocked if he hit leadoff. Keep Nimmo there, and give Schwarber some 2 run HRs. Phillies don't have a lot of leadoff options, so I guess it works for them.


im the same way. the downside is that he hits less homers too and his rc goes back closer to where it was when he was pre-Nats. but i think the cubs players regressions seem to track with the team's general regression because baez, bryant, rizzo all sort of had the same trajectory of being really good when the cubs were in that WS window and then falling off in the last few years before eventually getting moved elsewhere.

Schwarber's power is prodigious and he's always walked so at the price those were 2 skills i would have bet on.

then again they could make that same bet on the same 2 tools with Vientos and his possibly better hit tool and spend the $20m elsewhere over the next 3.5 years. so i kind of get passing on $20m for a DH given the situation the mets were in with Vientos/Baty/Alvarez on the way. more than i get not giving Vientos a chance right now at least.
RE: The  
Eric on Li : 7/7/2022 11:45 am : link
In comment 15748655 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Nationals are 24 games under .500, the team is for sale and Cruz for all of the "he could help" still has a .691 OPS, .685 over the last month, so yeah I think if the Nationals felt Butto would remain a SP he'd be around the level of prospect they would hope to get back. His market isn't going to be overly robust at roughly 7.5 million for half a season + prospect cost.


Cruz for Butto
Montas/Laureno for Mauricio
JDD for Minor

let's ride.
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