Why are there so many threads regurgitating the results of futile administrations and coaching staffs? I understand it's difficult to remove the stench from the brand of football we've witnessed for the last decade but taking an excerpt from Micheal Strahan's pregame speech before the Green Bay playoff game "The past is the fucking past".
It has been brutal reading most of the opinions on this forum as a fan, I can't imagine how demoralizing it would be as a player. Listening to the new coaching staff, and watching the changes in the personnel department, scouting, and administration we have been given an inkling of the why, to the results, we've witnessed. So why saddle the 2022 New York Football, Giants roster with skepticism as they enter training camp? Just because it is ladened with youth does not mean that they lack in talent and ability.
To begin with, given the constraints inherited by the incoming GM Shoen we gratefully appreciate the accomplishment of putting together a viable Offensive Line. One that will have a nasty disposition, emulating the personality of OL coach Johnson and HC Daboll. We can easily see the results of what has been accomplished with marginal talent, imagine what coach Johnson can accomplish with elite bookend tackles and ferocious inner core. Is the OLine complete? Not quite, a young true center would be desired but, the contingent for its formation is encouraging.
Having a competent OLine allows the Offense to blossom. DJ is an athletic, accurate deep ball QB, that I believe has been unfairly prejudged. After a promising rookie campaign, the coaching staff was replaced in the midst of a manifested Covid 19 Pandemic. No off-season program, no OTA's, a condensed training camp, no preseason games, an offensive strategy, and a playbook that was archaic, pedestrian, and antiquated. Adding insult to injury he was hindered by limited passing options and consistent drops by his receivers. Reviewing the last 2 seasons half of the interceptions came through deflections mostly by players no longer on the roster. Many of the fumbles were caused by defenders privy to an Olay blocking scheme giving free release to the passer.
Bad protection has made the best QBs look dismal, why would DJ be any different. Given Time the Offense can be dynamic. We finally have ingenuity within the offensive concepts, behind an established offensive mind in HC Daboll with an Andy Reid Prodigy in OC Kafka. While some pundits demean the quality and talent at the skill positions on offense, I think the final contingent will be variably explosive.
On the defensive side of the ball, DC Martindale is going to bring the heat. Ironically his defensive philosophy is founded on Buddy Ryan, Bill Parcells, and Bill Belichick's dominant principles of the 80s. The front 7 has the potential to become dominant. Williams, Lawrence, and Ward 3 man front with Thibodeaux and Ojulari outside is a menacing proposition to defend. There is a collection of young linebackers with a collective dog mentality. The secondary is young but their talent leans toward a man concept. The revelations that the training camp will provide should only increase our optimism further invigorating our vision for future success. I think we need to get behind our team, show them our support, and encourage them to overcome the coming grind as they grow in confidence and proficiency.
Ironically Philly is once again flapping their wing and screeching about a championship season, with the so-called pundits praising their coming anointing. I remember their last dream season and how our Giants football team was perceived also-ran, a memorable season to be sure. I feel we are in for something special during the coming season and believe the frenzy of "Giants Pride" will soon flourish. The link below may further our understanding of our new regime.
Let us believe once again.
Go Big Blue!!!
https://youtu.be/wtGd5u7_xSs?t=328
Don't like it? Find some Giants superfan group on Facebook. They might have what you are looking for.
First time in a long time....the OL could be decent.....allowing for some growing pains.
We have every right to be CYNICAL about the Giants organization.
I wish you well on your next thread...
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"DJ is an athletic, accurate deep ball QB, that I believe has been unfairly prejudged."
I wish you well on your next thread...
Everyone knows a QB needs 5 years a proven #1 receiver, a top OL and a positive supporting fan base to succeed. Everything else is a pre-judgement.
Daniel Jones could murder someone and people would be on the thread saying "Tom Brady would have done the same and I bet DJ put a lot of work into that murder. At the very least you have to respect his work ethic."
I for one would rather believe in the quality of the man in projecting the ability for success. It is pointless to offer counterarguments as training camp is here allowing us all to witness the formation of the roster.
My anticipation for this season will not waver, as I expect rejoicing will be continuously present throughout the campaign. Since many are in a prove-it state of mind, with training camp beginning let's appreciate the entering into a new era of the New York Football Giants Franchise.
Yeah it was bad back then too but damn if nothing pissed me off more than seeing the Giants and those pussy "give up" QB sneaks deep in their own territory in the finale vs Washington last year I don't know what would. What a shameful moment in Giants history that was.
I for one would rather believe in the quality of the man in projecting the ability for success. It is pointless to offer counterarguments as training camp is here allowing us all to witness the formation of the roster.
My anticipation for this season will not waver, as I expect rejoicing will be continuously present throughout the campaign. Since many are in a prove-it state of mind, with training camp beginning let's appreciate the entering into a new era of the New York Football Giants Franchise.
Yeah right, all Giant fans in the 60s and 70s believed in the quality of those teams and had no vitriol.
Who do you think hired that plane that flew over the stadium in 1981 with a banner saying "15 Yrs. Of Lousy Football. We've Had Enough."?
The late 60’s and 70’s was a much worse stretch but today feels worse because we have never ending media and places like this where we get to read non stop bitching and moaning. I come here for the news and resources provided by the staff and sure some discussion/opinion is nice but sometimes I wonder how miserable some people must be to be bitching and moaning non stop about a football team.
I am sure some will jump all over me just like the OP was jumped on but boo fucking hoo to you, you miserable fucks.
People expect perfection or get failure. No in-between.
When the Giants show us on the field cause for optimism, more fans will be optimistic.
Until then, it's all blah, blah, blah, we added better players/coaching/management on paper, blah, blah, blah.
I'll admit I'm still not sure what he was trying to build; it sure didn't look anything like what he was pushing with "Run the ball. Stop the run (well maybe that one). Rush the passer." One out of three doesn't cut it.
The internet, and then social media has empowered complainers - their reach is now endless and we all suffer for it.
It's shocking how bad the: a. coaching, b. OL, c. playcalling and d. team health was last year. But last year has very little to do with this upcoming year. It's possible all four of the above could be drastically better this year and if that happens we could see more of the rookie DJ (projects to 34 TDs in 17 games if he stays healthy) with fewer fumbles (due to experience, better protection and coaching).
Is it really so hard to imagine that the new coaching staff and a significantly better OL, playcalling and healthy receivers could positively impact DJ's play?
So if all goes reasonably well, we'll have the above improvements, plus the addition by subtraction of a #1 target who was a drop and deflection machine, along with a MUCH better attacking defense (which will probably get off the field much more quickly on avg., giving the improved O more TOP).
And so here I am again. I'm reasonably optimistic for the same reasons G-crew18, BB56 and some others are.
Are we at the bottom? I'm pretty sure we are.
Will we go back up this year? That remains to be seen. Signs point to yes, although we probably won't be a playoff team.
BBI is not supposed to be a "safe space" for you or anyone else, including any players who might read what's being said about them or the team. The Forum is a place for discussion and debate, and like any such place, opinions will vary (hat tip, Dalton), and debates can get very heated. It's the nature of the business, so to speak, particularly in an anonymous online environment. Deal with it.
Fans have every right to be skeptical, even those, like me, who are generally optimistic, especially at this time of year. We want to see progress, even if it's only incremental. We want to celebrate victories, not search for reasons to excuse losses. Our faith can remain strong, but it doesn't have to be blind, nor do we have to remain silent when that faith isn't justified. We will speak up, here and elsewhere.
Now, do I think this team is headed in the right direction, that the proverbial arrow is pointed up? Yes, I do. But the road ahead is paved with a number of questions, and not all of them will be answered quickly or easily, or even to my liking. So, while I can remain optimistic, I'll still maintain a healthy dose of skepticism until that proves to be unjustified. And I will speak up, and urge everyone else here to do the same, even - no, especially those whose opinions differ from mine.
You think a first time GM, HC and OC want the team to suck? That these ultra competitive men want to give away a season in the league known as Not For Long?
Maybe things will change, but as of right now it looks like they're going to give DJ a chance. Why give him a chance (die on the DJ hill) if he's so obviously not the guy? There were other options and maybe they could get 8 or 9 wins with Taylor at QB.
Is it so fucking hard to believe that maybe the new GM, HC and OC collectively think DJ COULD be the guy, but just needs an opportunity under reasonable conditions (decent OL, better playcalling, decent healthy receivers who don't lead the league in drops, etc.)?
The vast majority of DJ defenders admit they have NO FUCKING IDEA if he's going to be the guy; they're just hopeful. It's the hardcore critics who have made up their minds (and set up their flag on the DJ will always suck hill).
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It has been brutal reading most of the opinions on this forum as a fan, I can't imagine how demoralizing it would be as a player.
BBI is not supposed to be a "safe space" for you or anyone else, including any players who might read what's being said about them or the team. The Forum is a place for discussion and debate, and like any such place, opinions will vary (hat tip, Dalton), and debates can get very heated. It's the nature of the business, so to speak, particularly in an anonymous online environment. Deal with it.
Fans have every right to be skeptical, even those, like me, who are generally optimistic, especially at this time of year. We want to see progress, even if it's only incremental. We want to celebrate victories, not search for reasons to excuse losses. Our faith can remain strong, but it doesn't have to be blind, nor do we have to remain silent when that faith isn't justified. We will speak up, here and elsewhere.
Now, do I think this team is headed in the right direction, that the proverbial arrow is pointed up? Yes, I do. But the road ahead is paved with a number of questions, and not all of them will be answered quickly or easily, or even to my liking. So, while I can remain optimistic, I'll still maintain a healthy dose of skepticism until that proves to be unjustified. And I will speak up, and urge everyone else here to do the same, even - no, especially those whose opinions differ from mine.
Some of us are optimistic every season. It's quite possible to remain optimistic while understanding what/where the team is in their progression (or lack thereof).
Optimism is a state of mind, not an expectation of future performance.
So, sack-up and find the courage to feel good.
Or not, you be you~
You think a first time GM, HC and OC want the team to suck? That these ultra competitive men want to give away a season in the league known as Not For Long?
Maybe things will change, but as of right now it looks like they're going to give DJ a chance. Why give him a chance (die on the DJ hill) if he's so obviously not the guy? There were other options and maybe they could get 8 or 9 wins with Taylor at QB.
Is it so fucking hard to believe that maybe the new GM, HC and OC collectively think DJ COULD be the guy, but just needs an opportunity under reasonable conditions (decent OL, better playcalling, decent healthy receivers who don't lead the league in drops, etc.)?
The vast majority of DJ defenders admit they have NO FUCKING IDEA if he's going to be the guy; they're just hopeful. It's the hardcore critics who have made up their minds (and set up their flag on the DJ will always suck hill).
I suggest you take it down a notch. This is supposed to be fun. It's football, not war.
I would say we don't know what metaphorical hill Daboll et al are standing on. You're guessing they back Jones. That's the best anyone can do.
And I would say your point about not having any idea about Jones is telling. It's year 4. We ought to have a better idea by now, if he was any good.
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It has been brutal reading most of the opinions on this forum as a fan, I can't imagine how demoralizing it would be as a player.
BBI is not supposed to be a "safe space" for you or anyone else, including any players who might read what's being said about them or the team. The Forum is a place for discussion and debate, and like any such place, opinions will vary (hat tip, Dalton), and debates can get very heated. It's the nature of the business, so to speak, particularly in an anonymous online environment. Deal with it.
Fans have every right to be skeptical, even those, like me, who are generally optimistic, especially at this time of year. We want to see progress, even if it's only incremental. We want to celebrate victories, not search for reasons to excuse losses. Our faith can remain strong, but it doesn't have to be blind, nor do we have to remain silent when that faith isn't justified. We will speak up, here and elsewhere.
Now, do I think this team is headed in the right direction, that the proverbial arrow is pointed up? Yes, I do. But the road ahead is paved with a number of questions, and not all of them will be answered quickly or easily, or even to my liking. So, while I can remain optimistic, I'll still maintain a healthy dose of skepticism until that proves to be unjustified. And I will speak up, and urge everyone else here to do the same, even - no, especially those whose opinions differ from mine.
I think, Sack-up was his point?
Some of us are optimistic every season. It's quite possible to remain optimistic while understanding what/where the team is in their progression (or lack thereof).
Optimism is a state of mind, not an expectation of future performance.
So, sack-up and find the courage to feel good.
Or not, you be you~
Clearly, that wasn't his point.
Optimism is fine. Mindless optimism is not. Faith is fine, but at some point it has to be justified.
It doesn't take courage to feel good. It takes a reason (or reasons), and the Giants haven't given us many, so far. There's hope - there's always hope - but not nearly enough to remove the skepticism, and demand results first in a results-oriented business.
Results matter. If they didn't, they wouldn't keep score. Feelings don't matter at all, unless feeling good is more important than an honest, objective assessment of the product on the field.
But, you lose credibility when using dynamic, dominant, ferocious, menacing etc to describe players who've shown almost nothing of the sort in the NFL. Andy Reid Prodigy is another significant projection and opinion. It reads like Mel Kiper Jr wrote it on draft night and it's really a list of best case projections.
Point is, time will tell, and I want to see it on gamedays. You should probably avoid threads that don't suit you.
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In comment 15758775 Klaatu said:
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It has been brutal reading most of the opinions on this forum as a fan, I can't imagine how demoralizing it would be as a player.
BBI is not supposed to be a "safe space" for you or anyone else, including any players who might read what's being said about them or the team. The Forum is a place for discussion and debate, and like any such place, opinions will vary (hat tip, Dalton), and debates can get very heated. It's the nature of the business, so to speak, particularly in an anonymous online environment. Deal with it.
Fans have every right to be skeptical, even those, like me, who are generally optimistic, especially at this time of year. We want to see progress, even if it's only incremental. We want to celebrate victories, not search for reasons to excuse losses. Our faith can remain strong, but it doesn't have to be blind, nor do we have to remain silent when that faith isn't justified. We will speak up, here and elsewhere.
Now, do I think this team is headed in the right direction, that the proverbial arrow is pointed up? Yes, I do. But the road ahead is paved with a number of questions, and not all of them will be answered quickly or easily, or even to my liking. So, while I can remain optimistic, I'll still maintain a healthy dose of skepticism until that proves to be unjustified. And I will speak up, and urge everyone else here to do the same, even - no, especially those whose opinions differ from mine.
I think, Sack-up was his point?
Some of us are optimistic every season. It's quite possible to remain optimistic while understanding what/where the team is in their progression (or lack thereof).
Optimism is a state of mind, not an expectation of future performance.
So, sack-up and find the courage to feel good.
Or not, you be you~
Clearly, that wasn't his point.
Optimism is fine. Mindless optimism is not. Faith is fine, but at some point it has to be justified.
It doesn't take courage to feel good. It takes a reason (or reasons), and the Giants haven't given us many, so far. There's hope - there's always hope - but not nearly enough to remove the skepticism, and demand results first in a results-oriented business.
Results matter. If they didn't, they wouldn't keep score. Feelings don't matter at all, unless feeling good is more important than an honest, objective assessment of the product on the field.
Sure but what about the changes- DG gone, new coaches, new schemes, better Oline prospects, Mr dropsie TE gone? We need to see the results on the field but being optimistic because of these changes isn't mindless. These are some of the changes most thought were needed and at least the team isn't going out to bang the same head on the same wall expecting different results this year.
It's shocking how bad the: a. coaching, b. OL, c. playcalling and d. team health was last year. But last year has very little to do with this upcoming year. It's possible all four of the above could be drastically better this year and if that happens we could see more of the rookie DJ (projects to 34 TDs in 17 games if he stays healthy) with fewer fumbles (due to experience, better protection and coaching).
Is it really so hard to imagine that the new coaching staff and a significantly better OL, playcalling and healthy receivers could positively impact DJ's play?
So if all goes reasonably well, we'll have the above improvements, plus the addition by subtraction of a #1 target who was a drop and deflection machine, along with a MUCH better attacking defense (which will probably get off the field much more quickly on avg., giving the improved O more TOP).
And so here I am again. I'm reasonably optimistic for the same reasons G-crew18, BB56 and some others are.
Is it hard to imagine DJ improves? No. Is it hard to imagine he turns into a QB he's never been? Yes.
As far as the OP goes, while I'm optimistic with the changes made to this point, I find it hard to truly feel good about this team as long as DGs two biggest follies remain. I'll feel infinitely better once JS and BD get their own QB and SB isn't taking up cap $
People throw tantrums all the time about how perfectly valid it is to be optimistic with little data.
Yet people are also coming around all the time and acting like people are "miserable" or wrong if they don't want to ignore data about being bad.
Quit telling people how to think especially when you also are pitching outlandishly optimistic takes. You have every right to those takes although it's more than fair to point out the lack of supporting evidence.
I'm pretty sure it's the weird tribalism that you see in more than a few things these days but you can like or even love something while still seeing faults or risks. In fact it's pretty healthy to do so.
And who's to say the OP doesn't see faults/risks in real life matters? I don't think its "healthy" to be optimistic or critical of a sports team - its a notch above make believe, we are watching a game.
The late 60’s and 70’s was a much worse stretch but today feels worse because we have never ending media and places like this where we get to read non stop bitching and moaning. I come here for the news and resources provided by the staff and sure some discussion/opinion is nice but sometimes I wonder how miserable some people must be to be bitching and moaning non stop about a football team.
I am sure some will jump all over me just like the OP was jumped on but boo fucking hoo to you, you miserable fucks.
Sounda like a lot of bitching and moaning in tbis very post lol
Don't get me wrong. I don't trick myself into thinking this team is going to the Super Bowl. But, I also can't sit her and say it's a dismal team, or as bad as last year, or whatever. I have to believe we improved, even if somewhat. This year, I am also very energized by the new regime. The combination of new GM and coaching staff has really helped.
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In comment 15758775 Klaatu said:
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It has been brutal reading most of the opinions on this forum as a fan, I can't imagine how demoralizing it would be as a player.
BBI is not supposed to be a "safe space" for you or anyone else, including any players who might read what's being said about them or the team. The Forum is a place for discussion and debate, and like any such place, opinions will vary (hat tip, Dalton), and debates can get very heated. It's the nature of the business, so to speak, particularly in an anonymous online environment. Deal with it.
Fans have every right to be skeptical, even those, like me, who are generally optimistic, especially at this time of year. We want to see progress, even if it's only incremental. We want to celebrate victories, not search for reasons to excuse losses. Our faith can remain strong, but it doesn't have to be blind, nor do we have to remain silent when that faith isn't justified. We will speak up, here and elsewhere.
Now, do I think this team is headed in the right direction, that the proverbial arrow is pointed up? Yes, I do. But the road ahead is paved with a number of questions, and not all of them will be answered quickly or easily, or even to my liking. So, while I can remain optimistic, I'll still maintain a healthy dose of skepticism until that proves to be unjustified. And I will speak up, and urge everyone else here to do the same, even - no, especially those whose opinions differ from mine.
I think, Sack-up was his point?
Some of us are optimistic every season. It's quite possible to remain optimistic while understanding what/where the team is in their progression (or lack thereof).
Optimism is a state of mind, not an expectation of future performance.
So, sack-up and find the courage to feel good.
Or not, you be you~
Clearly, that wasn't his point.
Optimism is fine. Mindless optimism is not. Faith is fine, but at some point it has to be justified.
It doesn't take courage to feel good. It takes a reason (or reasons), and the Giants haven't given us many, so far. There's hope - there's always hope - but not nearly enough to remove the skepticism, and demand results first in a results-oriented business.
Results matter. If they didn't, they wouldn't keep score. Feelings don't matter at all, unless feeling good is more important than an honest, objective assessment of the product on the field.
We disagree.
The optimism that the team will win is the point. They haven't yet lost a single game. There are several very good reasons for optimism.
We have all seen "worst to first" happen. We have all seen, "wow, I didn't see that one coming" happen.
To date (2022) there has been no product on the field to assess.
Faith? Not part of what I'm talking about. Billions of
people have faith in something that they cannot assess or justify. Blind faith...that's not what optimism is.
It takes courage to go against the grain.
Optimism is always justified.
When you start a project, do you believe that you will succeed? Do you play golf? Do you fish? Work on cars with no training?
I plan on succeeding at everything that I try. I know beforehand that those are impossible odds...but I am always optimistic in the upcoming opportunity.
Will the Giants be good?
I don't know...the odds are against it, but I am optimistic.
:)
Until we actually play a real game, we don't know what we have with this revamped OL. It's anyone's guess.
Overall, I don't know what to think about this team going forward. We have a first time GM, a first time HC, and a QB who has underperformed in his three year career.
There is a fresh start appeal - true - especially with Gettleman gone. But the Maras still lurk and virtually every decision they have made in the past decade has been putrid.
So, it's hard to give this team the benefit of the doubt yet...
Win some games.
I am DYING to get behind this team.
Every year, I found a way to believe.
But...
We start almost every year 0-2.
SICK OF IT!!!!!!
No more.
Win and I will start being optimistic.
Until then, it is STILL one the worst teams in the league based on their performance the last 5 years.
Dream away.
Not me, not this year, gonna wait until they show me
Glad to see some comic relief hasn't gone away from the site.
let's hope players stay healthy and the OL takes a good step forward to being a good one.
Why care what people think of Jones? The high traffic posters and guru's of the position wanted the Giants to take Willis at pick 5. Be thankful they are not calling the shots. Jones has some talent. He has had a terrible set of circumstances to deal with. Let's see what happens and hopefully he has better pieces and coaches to lean on.
I beg to differ.
We are all decision makers. We decide where to apply our time.
I agree that football is entertainment. I enjoy football, and I want to be entertained. The question is, has it been entertaining enough to invest hours in the team every week. Over the past decade, the answer has been a clear cut no. I want it to be a yes. I want to be able to sit down for 3 hours with my son explaining all the nuances and strategies in games. But the team sucks so bad, it's not worth it and he is not interested.
People have discussed on this forum how the Giants have squandered the goodwill of a generation of potential fans who will now have grown up while the team was irrelevant.
So, as a decision maker as to how to spend my time, I want to see some results on the field. In the mean time, I DVR the games and speed watch them. If I see something interesting I might go back and re-watch something, but there hasn't been much to warrant that either.
That said, I do have some hope for the first time in years that the team has a chance to improve under the new regime. Under DG, I would go into the offseason hoping he would make some good moves, but by the end of April, I was convinced that the team was no better than before and might be worse! So it is good to have a positive sense after this offseason. I have no issues with the way the new regime has done things so far. I still believe the roster is poor. As a result, I will remain firmly planted in the "Show me" camp until they show me something! I am going to pay attention to see if there is improvement, particularly with the OL.
You don't even have to bother with DVR anymore. The NFL's YouTube page does an excellent job of showing highlights and they're already posted around an hour after the game ends. I never missed one Giants game from the 90s until 2015 or so.
I cannot tell you the amount of games that I have missed in the past 4 or 5 years and just watch everything (or try to) on YouTube after it ends.
I remember being offered overtime the night the Giants played Philly at home on Thursday night in 2018 and took the work. I'd never thought I'd rather work than watch Giants/Eagles and good thing I did. They were blown out at home against an unimpressive Eagles team.
Another forgettable Giants game that ended in an L.
time to get real...
But I always read the more critical posters, learned a lot from them, and ultimately better understood football.
The best thing about BBI is debating and learning more about football. Even during this low time, I enjoy football more because I understand the game better, the economics better, and the team better.
Personally I would have never learned as much about football if this place wasn't as drag out critical of the team.
Even the 2013 season, despite the 0-6 start, they didn't give up and somehow finished 7-9. I know back up QBs but never thought they'd go 7-3 down the stretch. They even somehow found themselves in a relevant game against the Cowboys in the middle of the season.
Lol yeah right. What you were "getting at" is that you pretty much exist here to give shit to certain people and complain about general themes on the site.
Funny how the point gets dropped easily when it's someone else, eh? (It's not funny actually just totally on par for your behavior)
I'm looking forward to your various threats of "ignoring me" ever being followed through on. But like this the only thing that matters to you is feeble attempts to argue with / annoy people
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Decision makers are the ones that need to live in the world you are describing, not everyone else, certainly not fans. For most of us it’s a game and a form of entertainment - if it’s any more than that for you thats perfectly fine but it’s not a rule we all have to subscribe to.
I beg to differ.
We are all decision makers. We decide where to apply our time.
I agree that football is entertainment. I enjoy football, and I want to be entertained. The question is, has it been entertaining enough to invest hours in the team every week. Over the past decade, the answer has been a clear cut no. I want it to be a yes. I want to be able to sit down for 3 hours with my son explaining all the nuances and strategies in games. But the team sucks so bad, it's not worth it and he is not interested.
People have discussed on this forum how the Giants have squandered the goodwill of a generation of potential fans who will now have grown up while the team was irrelevant.
So, as a decision maker as to how to spend my time, I want to see some results on the field. In the mean time, I DVR the games and speed watch them. If I see something interesting I might go back and re-watch something, but there hasn't been much to warrant that either.
That said, I do have some hope for the first time in years that the team has a chance to improve under the new regime. Under DG, I would go into the offseason hoping he would make some good moves, but by the end of April, I was convinced that the team was no better than before and might be worse! So it is good to have a positive sense after this offseason. I have no issues with the way the new regime has done things so far. I still believe the roster is poor. As a result, I will remain firmly planted in the "Show me" camp until they show me something! I am going to pay attention to see if there is improvement, particularly with the OL.
Good post.
It’s kind of like being stuck watching a series of bad movies for a decade but you’re not able to leave the theater or change the channel.
:-)
Haha…
You think a first time GM, HC and OC want the team to suck? That these ultra competitive men want to give away a season in the league known as Not For Long?
Maybe things will change, but as of right now it looks like they're going to give DJ a chance. Why give him a chance (die on the DJ hill) if he's so obviously not the guy? There were other options and maybe they could get 8 or 9 wins with Taylor at QB.
Is it so fucking hard to believe that maybe the new GM, HC and OC collectively think DJ COULD be the guy, but just needs an opportunity under reasonable conditions (decent OL, better playcalling, decent healthy receivers who don't lead the league in drops, etc.)?
The vast majority of DJ defenders admit they have NO FUCKING IDEA if he's going to be the guy; they're just hopeful. It's the hardcore critics who have made up their minds (and set up their flag on the DJ will always suck hill).
🙌. Love this post
Hell maybe a guy like Wen’Dale shows he can be a premiere slot guy as well. If we lose a bunch of games by one score - and players actually play to their draft position - we can be a dangerous team moving forward.
But I’m sure it won’t stop people from complaining about something..
Hell maybe a guy like Wen’Dale shows he can be a premiere slot guy as well. If we lose a bunch of games by one score - and players actually play to their draft position - we can be a dangerous team moving forward.
But I’m sure it won’t stop people from complaining about something..
Hmm...so 7 out of 22 starters show they are impact players and they only win 4 games?
Quite the successful year...
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They can win 4 games and it could be a very successful year if guys like XM, both KTs, Neal and Thomas, and AO show they’re just not starters but impact players.
Hell maybe a guy like Wen’Dale shows he can be a premiere slot guy as well. If we lose a bunch of games by one score - and players actually play to their draft position - we can be a dangerous team moving forward.
But I’m sure it won’t stop people from complaining about something..
Hmm...so 7 out of 22 starters show they are impact players and they only win 4 games?
Quite the successful year...
I think so. But remember I’m a simpleton. I don’t know as much as you. Nor do I complain as much either…
Yes, you don't.
Yes, you do.
I know your MO here is to bully posters who confront you. It’s kind of cool I guess. But it doesn’t really bother me if you try to insult me. I really just laugh at it. So keep being you.
I know your MO here is to bully posters who confront you. It’s kind of cool I guess. But it doesn’t really bother me if you try to insult me. I really just laugh at it. So keep being you.
Not bullying you at all...not my style. Nor is insulting, just calling it as it is.
And you can confront me all you want...
They see the mistakes in real time and point them out. And in general have been spot on for a decade.
I recall watching what Vinny Cerato and Dan Snyder were doing in Washington and knowing they were doing it all wrong. I made some posts about it at the time. Of course, we were enjoying the middle of the Coughlin era at the time. Was I complaining? Of course not, but I pointed out how what they were doing was not the path to winning football. It has been the same for the Giants for a long time. The mistakes have been blatant enough for fans (i.e. non experts) to plainly see.
Those who are critical of the team are not "Miserable fucks" either. As I said in my post above. I decide how to spend what little free time I have. And I do not wish to spend it being non-entertained. So I do things that are far more enjoyable. I am certain that you will find a similar answer from every poster who is critical. We all WANT the Giants to be good. We all WANT to be entertained. And we just find other avenues to pursue being entertained until things change. When I was young, I would be miserable for days after a Giants loss. Then I grew up and got over it. Now, I am happy when they win, and get on with things when they lose. The losses no longer negatively affect my mood. Again, I believe that the so called realists or pessimists or whatever you want to call the critics, will probably give you a similar description of their approach to football and the Giants.
Wanna talk football? I’m all about it. But the bullying tactic became old in about the 8th grade.
They see the mistakes in real time and point them out. And in general have been spot on for a decade.
Sorry to disagree (and I’m not referring to you specifically cause I don’t know much of your posting history) but pointing out flaws is fine. Explaining why you see the flaws is fine too. But I’ve been here a year, and the same posters say the same things over and over and over again. And when any posters shows any signs of optimism - they are openly mocked and attacked by the posters who complain about Gettleman, Jones, Barkley, Mara, etc… in every thread.
So while there may be some like you who have been negative about the Giants but not whining about them, there are more vocals complainers that are pretty easy to see.
And the more you post, the more you will get these responses.
Wanna talk football? I’m all about it. But the bullying tactic became old in about the 8th grade.
You have often been disagreeable and insulting to people like me. Maybe that's not your true nature,I hope not. I think it would be a good step moving forward to all be a little more mature when expressing our disagreements.
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People who are/have been critical of this haven't been "complaining".
They see the mistakes in real time and point them out. And in general have been spot on for a decade.
Sorry to disagree (and I’m not referring to you specifically cause I don’t know much of your posting history) but pointing out flaws is fine. Explaining why you see the flaws is fine too. But I’ve been here a year, and the same posters say the same things over and over and over again. And when any posters shows any signs of optimism - they are openly mocked and attacked by the posters who complain about Gettleman, Jones, Barkley, Mara, etc… in every thread.
So while there may be some like you who have been negative about the Giants but not whining about them, there are more vocals complainers that are pretty easy to see.
Ah, so you missed the times when there was a certain poster south of Virginia his "comrades" sucking up all the oxygen, berating and bullying anybody who said the slightest thing critical... Although he rarely comes up for air anymore, many of his "comrades" are still here (albeit some have changed their handle) and participating in the same "discussions" and saying the same things that have been repeated for the past 10 years.
So, you will have to forgive the critics who have been spot on over that time for repeating themselves, since the comrades are also repeating themselves. It's a never ending cycle here. Get used to it.
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That’s ok. I’m not into calling posters morons, idiots, “defenders” or telling them they know nothing about football like you do constantly. And if I have done it to posters in the past, I am most definitely in the wrong.
Wanna talk football? I’m all about it. But the bullying tactic became old in about the 8th grade.
You have often been disagreeable and insulting to people like me. Maybe that's not your true nature,I hope not. I think it would be a good step moving forward to all be a little more mature when expressing our disagreements.
Likewise. And you onto other posters.
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In comment 15759671 .McL. said:
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People who are/have been critical of this haven't been "complaining".
They see the mistakes in real time and point them out. And in general have been spot on for a decade.
Sorry to disagree (and I’m not referring to you specifically cause I don’t know much of your posting history) but pointing out flaws is fine. Explaining why you see the flaws is fine too. But I’ve been here a year, and the same posters say the same things over and over and over again. And when any posters shows any signs of optimism - they are openly mocked and attacked by the posters who complain about Gettleman, Jones, Barkley, Mara, etc… in every thread.
So while there may be some like you who have been negative about the Giants but not whining about them, there are more vocals complainers that are pretty easy to see.
Ah, so you missed the times when there was a certain poster south of Virginia his "comrades" sucking up all the oxygen, berating and bullying anybody who said the slightest thing critical... Although he rarely comes up for air anymore, many of his "comrades" are still here (albeit some have changed their handle) and participating in the same "discussions" and saying the same things that have been repeated for the past 10 years.
So, you will have to forgive the critics who have been spot on over that time for repeating themselves, since the comrades are also repeating themselves. It's a never ending cycle here. Get used to it.
He knows who are you referring to. He is one of the comrades...
And the more you post, the more you will get these responses.
I would thank you for the advice but again since I’ve been here you always use the words “idiots, morons, defenders of Gettleman” to mock posters. So you would understand that your advice doesn’t have much backing?
He knows who are you referring to. He is one of the comrades...
More insults…
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...you're as disingenuous as they come.
And the more you post, the more you will get these responses.
I would thank you for the advice but again since I’ve been here you always use the words “idiots, morons, defenders of Gettleman” to mock posters. So you would understand that your advice doesn’t have much backing?
It's not advice. Nor needs backing.
Ah, so you missed the times when there was a certain poster south of Virginia his "comrades" sucking up all the oxygen, berating and bullying anybody who said the slightest thing critical... Although he rarely comes up for air anymore, many of his "comrades" are still here (albeit some have changed their handle) and participating in the same "discussions" and saying the same things that have been repeated for the past 10 years.
So, you will have to forgive the critics who have been spot on over that time for repeating themselves, since the comrades are also repeating themselves. It's a never ending cycle here. Get used to it.
And you may be correct in saying you and others have been attacked. And I can only speak for the last year where the board has been flooded with the same 4 people: Barkley, Jones, Mara, and DG. And I understand those 4 deserve many of the threads and the Heat that goes with their production and place with the team. But if we are going to be honest how many posters are Jones and Barkley fans? I would say a very small percentage here. And I haven’t seen many say they are good or part of the future either. But they get mercifully attacked when they say something positive about them. So who cares if a few think Jones or Barkley will have good years? They are in the minority.
Gettleman is a different animal where he was just so bad - that anyone who defends what he did deserves a some ribbing. But the posters who called other posters morons or idiots as consistently as they do are not helping this board.
And like I said - if I did this - I’m part of the problem and shouldn’t be saying those things. Hey you and I had a huge disagreement the other day - but I don’t believe either of us said anything of a personal level and if I did I certainly apologize.
So while there may be some like you who have been negative about the Giants but not whining about them, there are more vocals complainers that are pretty easy to see.
Plain and simple. Because the Giants have been bad and shown no improvement with these names you have listed.
I'd rather someone be vocal about these names who have gotten nothing done. What's the worst that can happen? They get labeled a complainer by some cheerleader fan who backs up what they say without absolutely any substance?
Maybe stop complaining about BBI?
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But I’ve been here a year, and the same posters say the same things over and over and over again. And when any posters shows any signs of optimism - they are openly mocked and attacked by the posters who complain about Gettleman, Jones, Barkley, Mara, etc… in every thread.
So while there may be some like you who have been negative about the Giants but not whining about them, there are more vocals complainers that are pretty easy to see.
Plain and simple. Because the Giants have been bad and shown no improvement with these names you have listed.
I'd rather someone be vocal about these names who have gotten nothing done. What's the worst that can happen? They get labeled a complainer by some cheerleader fan who backs up what they say without absolutely any substance?
Maybe stop complaining about BBI?
To each their own I guess. There are many posters who have had a negative view of the Giants this past year but yet can express their point with substance and information worth learning from. JonC, Sy, Eric, and many more to name are great examples of this.
It’s better than a fan who says the same thing 50 times a day and insults people. But again, each their own.
phony...
And can you tell me of what opinion do I need to change and learn from? Please be specific.
And can you tell me of what opinion do I need to change and learn from? Please be specific.
Ask JonC, Sy, Eric, and those many others that you seem to respect so much. I am sure they will help set you on the right path when you need guidance...
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And can you tell me of what opinion do I need to change and learn from? Please be specific.
Ask JonC, Sy, Eric, and those many others that you seem to respect so much. I am sure they will help set you on the right path when you need guidance...
No examples? Just as I thought. Most people who don’t know the answers tend to deflect. Have a good night.
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Ah, so you missed the times when there was a certain poster south of Virginia his "comrades" sucking up all the oxygen, berating and bullying anybody who said the slightest thing critical... Although he rarely comes up for air anymore, many of his "comrades" are still here (albeit some have changed their handle) and participating in the same "discussions" and saying the same things that have been repeated for the past 10 years.
So, you will have to forgive the critics who have been spot on over that time for repeating themselves, since the comrades are also repeating themselves. It's a never ending cycle here. Get used to it.
And you may be correct in saying you and others have been attacked. And I can only speak for the last year where the board has been flooded with the same 4 people: Barkley, Jones, Mara, and DG. And I understand those 4 deserve many of the threads and the Heat that goes with their production and place with the team. But if we are going to be honest how many posters are Jones and Barkley fans? I would say a very small percentage here. And I haven’t seen many say they are good or part of the future either. But they get mercifully attacked when they say something positive about them. So who cares if a few think Jones or Barkley will have good years? They are in the minority.
Gettleman is a different animal where he was just so bad - that anyone who defends what he did deserves a some ribbing. But the posters who called other posters morons or idiots as consistently as they do are not helping this board.
And like I said - if I did this - I’m part of the problem and shouldn’t be saying those things. Hey you and I had a huge disagreement the other day - but I don’t believe either of us said anything of a personal level and if I did I certainly apologize.
You may or may not have noticed that I stopped replying to your posts. This one will be an exception.
I stopped replying to you when you, in fact, attacked me multiple times, often cherry picking a small portion of various posts, including mine, taking them out of context in order to level some absurd criticism.
I will give one quick example among many. You crticized me more than once claiming I said that Sterling Shepherd had more to do with the greater PPG in 2018 than did Barkley. When in fact I said that a "Declining Eli, OBJ and a functional SS" probably had more to do with it. And, I might point out that I listed them in the order in which I felt they had an impact. And I realize that getting the subtle subtext in a post is probably not your thing, but I was implying that a washed up Eli >> DJ.
When you completely miss the points that others are making and pick the least important part and twist it unmercifully and use that upon which to focus your wrath, you show your colors as a poster.
I bear you no ill will. Now that the certain poster to whom I referred above has all but disappeared, I have chosen to post less often and mostly try (not always succeeding) to avoid unpleasantness.
So if you want to act innocent from that thread, so be it - but you were just as much of a culprit as I was and I remember everything you said to me and inferred to me as well.
When actual game play and factual information was shown to you - you insulted the both of us by saying we were not only wrong (which is ironic since we showed actual game play information) but saying we had no idea what we were talking about.
So I guess you showed your true colors as well. And I can continue to show you how flawed your RSR stat is with 2018 Barkley season if you want. But I’ll assume you may not want to be shown why you’re wrong.
When actual game play and factual information was shown to you - you insulted the both of us by saying we were not only wrong (which is ironic since we showed actual game play information) but saying we had no idea what we were talking about.
So I guess you showed your true colors as well. And I can continue to show you how flawed your RSR stat is with 2018 Barkley season if you want. But I’ll assume you may not want to be shown why you’re wrong.
Please show a comment that I made that was specifically an insult directed at you or Uconn. I'll wait...
While you are searching, please take note of the 20 or so times you directly insulted me.
The only objective measures used to bolster Barkley's "great 2018 season" are yards and yards per carry. If you know anything about statistics and analysis, then you know how useless these 2 statistics are. Some will never be convinced. Their view of football is either colored by their fandom or seen through the lens of Fantasy Football,
So the quotes is a clear sign of mocking us since we both used those stats. And since we disagreed with you we are either colored by fandom (we both said Barkley was a bad pick and need to move on) or fantasy football - which nobody even brought up.
These type of posts were said multiple times by you during the thread. And I’m sure you will not admit to it or acknowledge it… you’re insinuation that we don’t under stand the gsme because we use other means of information… well you can take it from there. But there are examples just like this…
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The only objective measures used to bolster Barkley's "great 2018 season" are yards and yards per carry. If you know anything about statistics and analysis, then you know how useless these 2 statistics are. Some will never be convinced. Their view of football is either colored by their fandom or seen through the lens of Fantasy Football,
So the quotes is a clear sign of mocking us since we both used those stats. And since we disagreed with you we are either colored by fandom (we both said Barkley was a bad pick and need to move on) or fantasy football - which nobody even brought up.
These type of posts were said multiple times by you during the thread. And I’m sure you will not admit to it or acknowledge it… you’re insinuation that we don’t under stand the gsme because we use other means of information… well you can take it from there. But there are examples just like this…
Was this post a reply to you or anybody else? Did I mention you or anybody else in the post? You have taken the post out of context. Since it wasn't directed to anybody specifically, the "you" is a general you, not a specific you. The fact that you(specifically GNewGiants) take such offense to this post speak volumes about you as a poster.
I had been stating my POV and defending it on that thread. Nothing more. In fact in that post, I admit that RSR has flaws, and I give examples.. The post was to defend my POV, not directed to anybody specifically! I believe the full context of the post, that is clear.
And before I paste the post in it's entirety so that we can all see the full context, I suggest that anybody who has an open mind and wants to understand the POV should start with reading this article. It is excellent.
https://www.stampedeblue.com/2019/7/22/20702087/rushing-stats-are-lying-to-you-success-rate-epa-ypc-volume-median-dvoa
.McL. : 7/16/2022 5:46 pm : link : reply
especially objective ones. They cannot take into account game situations, defensive schemes, nor surrounding talent well.
Statistics that attempt to do so are generally flawed because they involve some subjectivity. Any time these statistics are used to bolster an argument, people dismiss them because of the subjectivity involved. PFF is exhibit A. Mind you, I am not a fan of PFF, good idea that seems to go wrong in the execution.
So yes, RSR is flawed. A good example is Derrick Henry. I would rate him as the top back at the time. Defenses were geared to stop him as their #1 priority. He constant ran again 8 and sometimes 9 in the box. Even with that his RSR is still good.
Even though RSR is flawed, it is still the ONLY common objective stat that correlates to winning. As such it is a far more important barometer than yard or yard per carry ever will be.
In Barkley's case RSR captures the biggest flaw in Barkley's game. He dances or hesitates behind the LOS looking for the cutback instead of taking what is there. This is what the coach in the OP's article is saying. And this critique is nothing new. If you haven't heard it, or seen it with your own eyes, then you are either living under a rock or so blinded by your fandom you can't see anything at all. This critique has been leveled by media experts, former players, coaches and even coaches of the Giants. Shurmur and his staff spoke openly about Barkley needing to take more of what the defense gave him.
If you do go to Football Outsides (I like FO more than PFF), you will find that his other statistics do not stack up well either.
14th in DYAR, 25th in YAR (same as DYA just not adjusted for defenses), 18th in DVOA and 28th in VOA. Yes all of these involve some subjectivity.
The only objective measures used to bolster Barkley's "great 2018 season" are yards and yards per carry. If you know anything about statistics and analysis, then you know how useless these 2 statistics are. Some will never be convinced. Their view of football is either colored by their fandom or seen through the lens of Fantasy Football, and even if you don't play, we are all bombarded with FF POV, it is a major marketing thing for media nad the league. But real football games are not won by winning FF stats. Real football games are won by doing the little things right on the field. Including taking a 3 yard gain instead trying to break a big play but getting dumped for a 2 yard loss. It isn't sexy, but it helps your team win.
Like I said - I know you wouldn’t admit to it. But such is life.
Do you really, seriously think you are the only person to propose that Barkley's season was great because he had over 2000 YFS and a 5 YPC? Seriously?
Like I said - I know you wouldn’t admit to it. But such is life.
If I want to refer to you specifically I would! As I have on this thread.
Like I said - I know you wouldn’t admit to it. But such is life.
I will absolutely state that the post was not directly at you specifically. By that time I had already decided you were not a poster on that thread to whom it was worthwhile responding! Take that any way you wish!
As I said above, I don't seem to always be able to avoid unpleasantness. I will now refrain from any further. Say whatever you want. Good night.
Do you really, seriously think you are the only person to propose that Barkley's season was great because he had over 2000 YFS and a 5 YPC? Seriously?
Wait a second - at least be honest. I’ve used game play from actual games. I’ve used down and distance. I’ve used by quarters. I showed that in games the Giants got blown out - his stats were hampered by garbage time - so at least please be honest by this. I just didn’t take his final stats and say he was good.
I showed how RSR is a team stat and usually bolstered by not only great OL play but by also QBs. I showed how average RBs can top your list while all pros can be middle of the road. And used MANY RBs examples of this.
Going back to Barkley - you use RSR to show how it correlates to winning. Well, we both can agree we stunk in 2018 both in OL, defense and QB play. But being we lost I believe 9 games by one score or less (that may be off- I can’t remember off hand but it was a lot) - if those other factors would be better - Barkley’s play would have helped us win more games? You say his yardage was garbage time yards (game out of hand, 3rd down dumpoffs, 3rd down yardage coming up way short of the marker, etc..)
Well let’s use stats:
96% of his rushing yards came on 1st or 2nd down.
Over 70% of his catches and yards were on first and second down
I am sorry but I don’t see how you can classify this as “majority of his production was in garbage time.”
If you want to say Barkley created too many negatives plays by bouncing plays and not getting the 2-3 yards - you will not get a disagreement from me. I think his success rate was 43% or something like that. The problem with your stat is on the 57% that weren’t successful… how many were on Barkley? How many were the OLs fault? How many were on Eli? That’s the point people who question a stat like that.
And also remember not every time Barkley bounced it - did it turn out to be a negative play either in 2018. So for a player like him, you have to take the good with the bad. Because if he never tried to bounce a play - our offense would have been even worse.
And don’t forget in 2018, he broke 30 more tackles than the next RB. And you may not find that relevant, but it shows me how bad the OL was for him just to get those 2-3 yards.
From 2019 on… I never disagreed with you. I agree he was a horrible pick by a horrible GM. And we should move on after this year. But as far 2018 - if you consider what he did with what his surrounding cast was - it was really damn good.
I was thinking we do need more "how to be a positive fan" threads and repetitive posts about the 60s and 70s.
Ah hell, those fans could be actually correct and still haven't been proven otherwise but let's hear it all again!
We have every right to be CYNICAL about the Giants organization.
Totally agree with this statement. When you have a team that purposely sits on the ball on third down to ensure a punt..yeah it gives the fan the right to be beyond cynical and apathetic.
They see the mistakes in real time and point them out. And in general have been spot on for a decade.
I recall watching what Vinny Cerato and Dan Snyder were doing in Washington and knowing they were doing it all wrong. I made some posts about it at the time. Of course, we were enjoying the middle of the Coughlin era at the time. Was I complaining? Of course not, but I pointed out how what they were doing was not the path to winning football. It has been the same for the Giants for a long time. The mistakes have been blatant enough for fans (i.e. non experts) to plainly see.
Those who are critical of the team are not "Miserable fucks" either. As I said in my post above. I decide how to spend what little free time I have. And I do not wish to spend it being non-entertained. So I do things that are far more enjoyable. I am certain that you will find a similar answer from every poster who is critical. We all WANT the Giants to be good. We all WANT to be entertained. And we just find other avenues to pursue being entertained until things change. When I was young, I would be miserable for days after a Giants loss. Then I grew up and got over it. Now, I am happy when they win, and get on with things when they lose. The losses no longer negatively affect my mood. Again, I believe that the so called realists or pessimists or whatever you want to call the critics, will probably give you a similar description of their approach to football and the Giants.
The problem with some of regular old time posters on BBI is they are afraid to hear the truth about the team. For instance, I correctly predictied the record last year based on how coaches and management wre conducting the preseason workouts and roster. It was that easy to predict. Because DG made all those extended contracts he has hurt this team for at least the next 3 years.
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I am optimistic every training camp. I’ll wait for the injuries to start and losses on the field before I decide how bad the season looks.
The late 60’s and 70’s was a much worse stretch but today feels worse because we have never ending media and places like this where we get to read non stop bitching and moaning. I come here for the news and resources provided by the staff and sure some discussion/opinion is nice but sometimes I wonder how miserable some people must be to be bitching and moaning non stop about a football team.
I am sure some will jump all over me just like the OP was jumped on but boo fucking hoo to you, you miserable fucks.
Sounda like a lot of bitching and moaning in tbis very post lol
not really - but take it as you will and give me more insight into your overall miserable outlook
If you ask me what impresses me about JS is that he DIDN'T make a lot of moves. Discipline is what we've been sorely lacking. What were his list of great moves exactly?
We have literally zero idea of how good of a GM he is other than we know he has more discipline than his predecessors that's literally all we know. All you people just itching to gush over whoever is in the building is fine but don't act like you know anything when you are talking about "great moves." You don't and you are outing yourself in that by making a comment like that.
So these types can only be happy for hours after a championship because it all shifts to "yeah but we're going to lose coaches and pick low and bla bla bla".
They can never be happy.
Expect a modest but positive improvement over last season with some signs of breakout. Enjoy each win and realize we are still in rebuild.
And there are those who will waste time telling other people how to react with pretentious posts. Nothing wrong with wanting to see your team win it all.
Yeah every other day someone makes that post on here. Nothing new.
But as long as sports are around, I do see the Giants probably winning one day again. They have won before, they will probably win again. Mara isn't holding them back as much as he was just part of the problem the last 10 years. The Giants want to win. That's a good start.
2. Got rid of losing players who never got better and didn’t even bother signing them to 1 year prove it deals.
3. Focused on the OL and got players who fit Daboll’s system or have high end potential like Neal.
4. Forced Martinez and Shepard to take massive pay cuts instead of cutting them.
5. Didn’t give out any bloated long term deals.
6. Declined Jones 5th year.
7. Hired coaches that were either got commodities or known ones (Wink)
I am sure there are a few I forgot, so maybe I am outing myself as a fan (not sure why that’s a bad thing?) and maybe these moves don’t work out but the mindset is the complete opposite of what Gettleman brought here and that can only be a good thing.
So great moves so far. Hope he continues moving like this going forward.
2. Got rid of losing players who never got better and didn’t even bother signing them to 1 year prove it deals. There are a number of players that are unsigned from the Giants last year him and everyone else knew they were bad, is this some even average accomplishment let alone great? The Giants have been awful, letting the bottom of the roster go is a no brainer
3. Focused on the OL and got players who fit Daboll’s system or have high end potential like Neal.Neal was the right move and I commend him for it but how many other GMs do the same thing in his shoes? I'd venture most. I'd reserve the word great for at least something above average I'd say. Again I commend him but definitionally hard to argue any of this stuff is great. The other OLs other than Glowinski are just random shots
4. Forced Martinez and Shepard to take massive pay cuts instead of cutting them. Massive speculation, how do you know these guys didn't come and ask for these deals? As opposed to Schoen "forcing" them. This kind of shows the flaws in your methodology at it's core, taking something pretty run of the mill renegotiating with injured players and applying "greatness" to it
5. Didn’t give out any bloated long term deals. Again, not doing something isn't a "great" move, it's just showing some much needed discipline but that isn't a "move" that's called doing your job in a professional manner. I get it, big upgrade, but the barometer for greatness should be much higher.
6. Declined Jones 5th year. Maybe the most laughable of the bunch. Seriously? Declining an option on a player that has performed extremely poorly you are calling great??
7. Hired coaches that were either got commodities or known ones (Wink) This especially you have to see play out I mean come on you have NO idea how Daboll is as a head coach, why is being known some kind of great commodity? Isn't that kind of the opposite of greatness? I'd think you'd want a better differentiator than people know them if you are going to talk about greatness. Daboll has pretty unspectacular results as an OC without Josh Allen and pretty much everyone agrees that the Ravens pump in top flight talent year in and year out. Maybe we should see how he does with less talent before ascribing greatness to this choice
Yes your methodology is flawed because you confuse your personal excitement and general optimism around the Giants with the word great.
Great off-season.
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It has been brutal reading most of the opinions on this forum as a fan, I can't imagine how demoralizing it would be as a player.
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Hahahahhaha - awwww those poor baby professional football players. Apparently the OP doesn't give a fuck about any fan and what we had had to endure. Let's all shed a tear for the professional football players on our team because they have been sucking for so many years.
I mean c'mon. Those are gown men. The OP wants to treat them like girlscouts. That entire comment is a complete insult to the very players that plays/has played during this recent stretch of many years of God-Awful football.
And who's to say the OP doesn't see faults/risks in real life matters? I don't think its "healthy" to be optimistic or critical of a sports team - its a notch above make believe, we are watching a game.
Who are you to say what is "unproductive?"
And I certainly don't agree with your "what is healthy" comment.
Who are you to determine for each individual as to what is healthy by others on a message board?
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When you start a project, do you believe that you will succeed?
:)
What a moronic analogy you just made. And yes I'm optimistic that your comment would be shared by many as completely moronic.
SO yeah I'm an optimist too. And your analogy proves my optimistic view of things for even that next "project" I will pursue.
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In comment 15758850 Klaatu said:
Quote:
When you start a project, do you believe that you will succeed?
:)
What a moronic analogy you just made. And yes I'm optimistic that your comment would be shared by many as completely moronic.
SO yeah I'm an optimist too. And your analogy proves my optimistic view of things for even that next "project" I will pursue.
But even having missed the point that, optimism is a choice, I'm glad that you agree.