Incredibly insightful info from the GOAT film analyst Greg Cosell on Inside the Birds about the #Giants re: Daniel Jones, Joe Judge and Brian Daboll
Doing a quick thread w/ key takeaways
From what Greg heard, JJ wouldn't allow a a single mistake to happen. He would freak out for any kind of error. This is a horrific way to coach, obv, but it can also have a debilitating impact on a QB no matter who the QB is. "It was almost as if you weren't allowed to make a mistake." Serves as a viable excuse for DJ to me. That's two years of his career listening to/playing under that kind of nasty environment (I still have no clue why JJ was celebrated for winning a few games down the stretch of 2020 against backup/out of league QBs).
Dabes will be the total opposite style coach. He'll let the QB make mistakes while getting a feel for what he CAN do well. This, more than anything to me, could have the biggest impact on DJ realizing his potential despite it being Year 4. Judge's no-mistake environment is gone.
Now as for DJ, Cosell liked his game film more than the consensus. Per Cosell, "At his core DJ is a pocket passer playing in rhythm and DJ showed the ability to be decisive with his throws on 3rd downs." Third downs = money downs and Cosell likes what DJ has shown on film there
Cosell is very excited about the #Giants offense schematically. Talked about the mix of quick game + vertical concepts. Talked about Kafka bringing over what he learned from the best route designer (IMO) ever in Andy Reid. Talked about the #Giants leaning on three-level route concepts with a vertical element like flood. Personally, I LOVE to hear this. Flood concepts put a lot of stress on the defense -- specifically the second and third levels. I'm very excited to see the mix of Daboll/Kafka on tape.
Cosell is also excited about the #Giants going away from using so many TEs/RBs to chip/help in pass pro leaving them w/ so many 3-man routes vs. 7-man coverages. I CONCUR! We saw this far too often on film and Dabes/Kafka's history suggests We won't be seeing much of it in the new offense. Very good news schematically speaking.
Cosell also LOVED #Giants 3rd-rd pick Josh Ezeudo's tape. He also spoke w/ a UNC coach who raved about this diamond in the rough. Cosell thinks he'll be starting for them at some point.
Source:
https://mobile.twitter.com/DanSchneierNFL/status/1552063969891942400
I think Daboll will want DJ to be more aggressive for sure.
I think Daboll will want DJ to be more aggressive for sure.
i think judge went back to NE so he can go to QB school under Belichek. i actually think it was a reasonably smart self scouting move.
The Daniel jones 80 yard scramble ending with him tripping over the turf monster embodies everything about that team, under judge. Too tightly wound up.
Look forward to see what Daboll and Kafka have in store.
I don't think-unless Mac Jones becomes a superstar under JJ's guidance-JJ gets another sniff at a HC job in the NFL. College is probably his best route. In hindsight, it probably would have best for all parties if he took the Mississippi State job.
I don't think-unless Mac Jones becomes a superstar under JJ's guidance-JJ gets another sniff at a HC job in the NFL. College is probably his best route. In hindsight, it probably would have best for all parties if he took the Mississippi State job.
yep. i give him credit though because i cant remember another assistant in his position putting himself on the line like that in a new role.
But that shore' ain't football...
#TogetherBlue
Serves as a viable excuse for DJ to me.
Jones can't be expected to play well with a bad OL.
Serves as a viable excuse for DJ to me.
Jones can't be expected to play well with all the injuries to his WRs.
Serves as a viable excuse for DJ to me.
Jones can't be expected to play well when the Giants keep changing offensive coordinators.
Serves as a viable excuse for DJ to me.
Or maybe, just maybe, Jones isn't very good and these are NOT viable excuses.
Sounds like he was spot on.
Link - ( New Window )
At the end of 2020 with some meaningless wins, media, players past and present and most on here we're excited in the direction of the team. And if we heard these things then, we would have loved it. Wow its great that hes a perfectionist! Mistakes lose football!
The best "culture" is winning football games.
At the end of 2020 with some meaningless wins, media, players past and present and most on here we're excited in the direction of the team. And if we heard these things then, we would have loved it. Wow its great that hes a perfectionist! Mistakes lose football!
The best "culture" is winning football games.
Anything below the surface was below the surface, and I didn't have a problem with the 2020 version of Judge.
The 2021 version of Judge was one of the worst coaches I've ever seen, worse than McAdoo in the end.
Jones will either perform or not in 2022.
But there are viable arguments to say why he may never be the QB hoped as well as viable arguments that explain extenuating circumstances.
Jones will either perform or not in 2022.
But there are viable arguments to say why he may never be the QB hoped as well as viable arguments that explain extenuating circumstances.
And there are viable arguments that both can exist.
Don't forget the QB sneaks.
Serves as a viable excuse for DJ to me.
Jones can't be expected to play well with a bad OL.
Serves as a viable excuse for DJ to me.
Jones can't be expected to play well with all the injuries to his WRs.
Serves as a viable excuse for DJ to me.
Jones can't be expected to play well when the Giants keep changing offensive coordinators.
Serves as a viable excuse for DJ to me.
Or maybe, just maybe, Jones isn't very good and these are NOT viable excuses.
Or maybe, just maybe, with football being the ultimate team sport, they ALL contributed to Jones' struggles. SMH.
Serves as a viable excuse for DJ to me.
Jones can't be expected to play well with a bad OL.
Serves as a viable excuse for DJ to me.
Jones can't be expected to play well with all the injuries to his WRs.
Serves as a viable excuse for DJ to me.
Jones can't be expected to play well when the Giants keep changing offensive coordinators.
Serves as a viable excuse for DJ to me.
Or maybe, just maybe, Jones isn't very good and these are NOT viable excuses.
DO IT ANYWAYZ!!
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& isn't JJ like the Pats de facto OC? That doesn't bode well for Mac Jones in terms of JJ freaking out with every single QB error.
I think Daboll will want DJ to be more aggressive for sure.
i think judge went back to NE so he can go to QB school under Belichek. i actually think it was a reasonably smart self scouting move.
That was my thought as well.
He has me 100%. But he lost me in that Washington game and a few others when he went into a shell offensively with a chance to close out game.
Serves as a viable excuse for DJ to me.
Jones can't be expected to play well with a bad OL.
Serves as a viable excuse for DJ to me.
Jones can't be expected to play well with all the injuries to his WRs.
Serves as a viable excuse for DJ to me.
Jones can't be expected to play well when the Giants keep changing offensive coordinators.
Serves as a viable excuse for DJ to me.
Or maybe, just maybe, Jones isn't very good and these are NOT viable excuses.
Or maybe you re wrong and a talent has been derailed by some really bad circumstances.
Sometimes excuses are valid. Certainly your litany above would be valid reasons for a quarterback to not perform well
The idiocy is having him roll out as much as they did and run him as much as they tried.
The best thing that could have been done for him was to keep him in the pocket and learn to develop presence/awareness (if he ever could). So with such a pathetic OL - it's juts been a waste these least few years.
And what does a pocket passer need most of all? An Offensive Line.
Those that say a QB has to overcome all of this have always been wrong and just don't understand football / know what they are talking about. Mediocre QB's do not overcome this early in their career. Not when you have a team so devoid of talent these lats few years with arguably the worst GM they have ever had and a blundering idiotic coach.
A young Qb even if he is "just" "pretty good" is not going to overcome all of this early on. There has to be realization that the other teams have NFL players and coaches too. And most are superior to what the Giants have been from top to bottom.
And the prior year they drafted Barkley. What does a RB need if he doesn't have a super Qb? He needs an Offensive Line.
That MORON of a GM was too full of himself to take a step back and realize that the QB and Running Back desperately needed an OLINE.
A young pocket passer that is not that good but maybe not so bad early in his career needs an OLINE.
I highly doubt in 1 year he will turn it around and it's not worth paying him huge bucks going forward.
I like Cosell - I really do. Maybe. I hope so. But, I doubt it.
"We're going to put a product on the field that the people of this city and region are going to be proud of because this team will represent this area."
Fuck Joe Judge, the fucking fraud.
DG had to be the worst Giant GM of recent times. Terrible at evaluating free agents and his draft picks were weak to be kind.
What a cluster. The biggest problem is the Mara's. The free soda sums up their incompetence. It's like having the local deli owner now running Walmart.
The only real hope is that Tisch takes a more active role and becomes a strong counter weight to the Mara's.
I think there are very genuine concerns with Jones. He is not a running QB and at least two times he lost time because of it. It's not natural for him.
QB expectations have become beyond reasonable many times early on. They all need help and the variable is how much. The good franchises help them fake it till they figure it out by giving them strong basics to work with. Jones flaws may always be present and now he is expensive but he was dealt very tough circumstances imv.
That’s my quarterback.
… of course, I felt the same way about Judge. I’ve never been a clear-eyed fan. 🤷♀️
DG had to be the worst Giant GM of recent times. Terrible at evaluating free agents and his draft picks were weak to be kind.
What a cluster. The biggest problem is the Mara's. The free soda sums up their incompetence. It's like having the local deli owner now running Walmart.
The only real hope is that Tisch takes a more active role and becomes a strong counter weight to the Mara's.
The only real hope is Tisch?
While the Giants under Mara ownership have had some lengthy spans of awful football, they have also had much success.
This last off season several moves occurred that critics here stated would never happen. You think those moves were all Tisch based, I doubt that was the case.
The Mara narrative is one I don’t agree with.
Jones will either perform or not in 2022.
But there are viable arguments to say why he may never be the QB hoped as well as viable arguments that explain extenuating circumstances.
Stop being so rational Eric. No place for that here. 😀
Each week the gameplanning was developed for Jones as if he was a third string QB. Don't take any chances, don't stretch the field. It made their margin of victory so so small. And that's why a lot of these games were close and fell apart late. You can't win being that conservative these days. The league is aggressively trying to score and "play basketball on grass" and the Giants offense was right out of the late 70s.
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Until last year. He was just plain terrible. Seamed his plan was to not lose by alot. Ultra conservative on offense and defense.
DG had to be the worst Giant GM of recent times. Terrible at evaluating free agents and his draft picks were weak to be kind.
What a cluster. The biggest problem is the Mara's. The free soda sums up their incompetence. It's like having the local deli owner now running Walmart.
The only real hope is that Tisch takes a more active role and becomes a strong counter weight to the Mara's.
The only real hope is Tisch?
While the Giants under Mara ownership have had some lengthy spans of awful football, they have also had much success.
This last off season several moves occurred that critics here stated would never happen. You think those moves were all Tisch based, I doubt that was the case.
The Mara narrative is one I don’t agree with.
The current generation of Mara’s are the guys who gave us Gettleman and a parade of disastrous coaching hires.
This is why I think he's screwed up in the head.
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"JJ wouldn't allow a a single mistake to happen. He would freak out for any kind of error...it can also have a debilitating impact on a QB no matter who the QB is."
Serves as a viable excuse for DJ to me.
Jones can't be expected to play well with a bad OL.
Serves as a viable excuse for DJ to me.
Jones can't be expected to play well with all the injuries to his WRs.
Serves as a viable excuse for DJ to me.
Jones can't be expected to play well when the Giants keep changing offensive coordinators.
Serves as a viable excuse for DJ to me.
Or maybe, just maybe, Jones isn't very good and these are NOT viable excuses.
Or maybe you re wrong and a talent has been derailed by some really bad circumstances.
Sometimes excuses are valid. Certainly your litany above would be valid reasons for a quarterback to not perform well
You may have missed the thread earlier today about what other NFL coaches think about Jones. They ranked Jones the 30th QB out of 35... and they're not buying all the excuses either, as evidenced by some of their quotes:
“...holds the ball too long... leads to turnovers."
“I don’t think he sees the game great... I just don't see it with that kid."
“Daniel Jones plays the game...heavy minded...”
“This will be the last season he is a starter and the last season we are talking about him."
(That thread is linked below.)
And the excuse made in the OP of this thread that Jones couldn't possibly play well because JJ would get mad when Jones made a mistake is laughable... especially when the writer of the article felt it necessary to use over the top adjectives like "freak out", "horrific" and "debilitating".
Most other starting QBs in the NFL would use their head coach's criticism as fuel to get better. The bottom tier QBs wilt under the pressure while some of their fans use it as an excuse for poor play.
30th Ranked - ( New Window )
Again, you can have more than one reason for why the team was what it was.
JOnes's TD to Int ratio is actually pretty positive (compared to GMen QB's of the past). This is his last year to prove something but most of you would have KILLED Eli (and did by the way) come his game against Minnesota in 2007!
To date Jones has now had three HC's, three OC's and not one real viable offensive threat that could be exploited (due to OL and other issues).
For once we will see what forward thinking and "fingers crossed" an Oline that is more than adequate can do for him.
That isn't true to the extent you are saying it. Eli made a shit ton of mistakes, many very ugly and embarrassing his first few years. Your opinion is your opinion but you gloss over a lot of additional factors as if they do not matter.
I'm really looking forward to seeing this kid excel.
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In comment 15763360 Jim in Tampa said:
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"JJ wouldn't allow a a single mistake to happen. He would freak out for any kind of error...it can also have a debilitating impact on a QB no matter who the QB is."
Serves as a viable excuse for DJ to me.
Jones can't be expected to play well with a bad OL.
Serves as a viable excuse for DJ to me.
Jones can't be expected to play well with all the injuries to his WRs.
Serves as a viable excuse for DJ to me.
Jones can't be expected to play well when the Giants keep changing offensive coordinators.
Serves as a viable excuse for DJ to me.
Or maybe, just maybe, Jones isn't very good and these are NOT viable excuses.
Or maybe you re wrong and a talent has been derailed by some really bad circumstances.
Sometimes excuses are valid. Certainly your litany above would be valid reasons for a quarterback to not perform well
You may have missed the thread earlier today about what other NFL coaches think about Jones. They ranked Jones the 30th QB out of 35... and they're not buying all the excuses either, as evidenced by some of their quotes:
“...holds the ball too long... leads to turnovers."
“I don’t think he sees the game great... I just don't see it with that kid."
“Daniel Jones plays the game...heavy minded...”
“This will be the last season he is a starter and the last season we are talking about him."
(That thread is linked below.)
And the excuse made in the OP of this thread that Jones couldn't possibly play well because JJ would get mad when Jones made a mistake is laughable... especially when the writer of the article felt it necessary to use over the top adjectives like "freak out", "horrific" and "debilitating".
Most other starting QBs in the NFL would use their head coach's criticism as fuel to get better. The bottom tier QBs wilt under the pressure while some of their fans use it as an excuse for poor play. 30th Ranked - ( New Window )
The first paragraph in the blurb on Jones summed it up nicely
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is that great QBs don't make a lot of mistakes. Some folks see Jones make a couple of great plays and think he has what it takes. But all QBs can make great plays, including Trubisky, and Tyrod, and Mariota, and Zach, and Trevor, and Fields, etc. The difference is the great ones are consistent. And one of Jones' fatal flaws is he makes too many errors. He still does. Being repetitively consistent is a skill. Brady is amazing because every snap looks the same. Every dropback is similar. His mechanics are phenomenal. He's a machine. Judge knows this. He was hoping that by fretting over mistakes, they would go away. No matter you whine over the errors though, Jones ain't becoming Brady.
That isn't true to the extent you are saying it. Eli made a shit ton of mistakes, many very ugly and embarrassing his first few years. Your opinion is your opinion but you gloss over a lot of additional factors as if they do not matter.
Producers statement is incontrovertibly true. All NFL players are talented and make some plays. The really good ones make a lot more good plays than bad ones.