It’s hard to compare Brown and Jones because they played in much different eras. When you watch the tape of the Giants offense with Brown at the helm there are lots of jumbo sets with 3 OT’s or 3 TE’s. Most of the offense was based on 2 WR sets with a heavy focus on running the ball and killing the clock. He also had very little at WR to work with during the majority of his tenure here in his defense.
What was interesting was when Brown went to the Cardinals he actually played relatively well and looked less horrible compared to his stint in NY.
From a Jones perspective, I don’t have high hopes for this season. He seems like a really good guy and very smart, but his football instincts seem very very poor. He holds the ball too long, doesn’t seem to make the right read on many occasions, and you just don’t get that “winning QB” vibe from him in general. A big part of the QB position is intangibles and that’s where Jones doesn’t meet expectations.
then you let him walk and draft a new QB. Can't tie up $$$ on a QB that isn't top 10 or 12, you can get guys to be 15-20 for a lot less (like a Tyrod for example)
Like 22td’s an 10 interceptions, misses a couple games to injury? I’m in the year 40 to 45 mm range maybe? I’d really have to do some comparison work before I could say for sure.
No more “but his WRs, but his OC, third OC in 4 years.” If he’s anything other than very very good you move on. Look at the stud qbs in this league - Rodgers, Mahomes, Jackson, Stafford, Burrow, Herbert, Allen, etc. If you don’t have one of those guys you’re not winning a super bowl. If he has a “decent” season then best case you’re stuck in qb purgatory with a Cousins, Jimmy G, Tannehill type which is the worst place to be
No more “but his WRs, but his OC, third OC in 4 years.” If he’s anything other than very very good you move on. Look at the stud qbs in this league - Rodgers, Mahomes, Jackson, Stafford, Burrow, Herbert, Allen, etc. If you don’t have one of those guys you’re not winning a super bowl. If he has a “decent” season then best case you’re stuck in qb purgatory with a Cousins, Jimmy G, Tannehill type which is the worst place to be
Would you prefer shuffling through quarterbacks like Cleveland has been for nearly 25 years?
No more “but his WRs, but his OC, third OC in 4 years.” If he’s anything other than very very good you move on. Look at the stud qbs in this league - Rodgers, Mahomes, Jackson, Stafford, Burrow, Herbert, Allen, etc. If you don’t have one of those guys you’re not winning a super bowl. If he has a “decent” season then best case you’re stuck in qb purgatory with a Cousins, Jimmy G, Tannehill type which is the worst place to be
I 100% agree with this post. You can’t wait forever. Cleveland’s Watson deal is strange, but I give them credit for admitting Mayfield is not the guy and getting rid of him.
The likelihood that 2022 is the “Daniel Jones Farewell Tour” is high
As is the possibility that the new guys will be QB shopping next spring. The problem is, as I see it, there will be a lot of teams doing the same. I see 2 in our own division who might be looking as well in the Eagles and Redskins. Philly, in particular, is armed with multiple 1’s. They could conceivably qualify for the playoffs, lose in the first round, and still draft a better QB than the NYG.
No more “but his WRs, but his OC, third OC in 4 years.” If he’s anything other than very very good you move on. Look at the stud qbs in this league - Rodgers, Mahomes, Jackson, Stafford, Burrow, Herbert, Allen, etc. If you don’t have one of those guys you’re not winning a super bowl. If he has a “decent” season then best case you’re stuck in qb purgatory with a Cousins, Jimmy G, Tannehill type which is the worst place to be
Would you prefer shuffling through quarterbacks like Cleveland has been for nearly 25 years?
If you have a competent GM, that problem should be avoided.
How good does Jones have to be? Is 9-8 and the one-and-done in the
Playoffs good enough? Does he need to have a top 10 offense and win a playoff game? Does he have to win the Division?
I think at least one playoff win, a top 10 offense, 32+TDs and <16 turnovers would make me think hard about tagging him or working out a 2-year extension. He may decide he can do better than that.
No more “but his WRs, but his OC, third OC in 4 years.” If he’s anything other than very very good you move on. Look at the stud qbs in this league - Rodgers, Mahomes, Jackson, Stafford, Burrow, Herbert, Allen, etc. If you don’t have one of those guys you’re not winning a super bowl. If he has a “decent” season then best case you’re stuck in qb purgatory with a Cousins, Jimmy G, Tannehill type which is the worst place to be
Would you prefer shuffling through quarterbacks like Cleveland has been for nearly 25 years?
Why is keeping the same shitty QB preferable to cycling through potential replacements in pursuit of improvement?
I have said many times, in my opinion he needs to be other worldly good for a new deal with the Giants. I'm talking top 5, which is highly unlikely. And that includes franchise tag. Decent season = free agent.
Worst case scenario, Taylor is under contract next year for a very small amount.
The important question has nothing to do with Jones
The important question is, how are we going to get a young QB who is more than just decent? If we suck again we will have that chance in the draft but there are many teams in need of a QB and plenty of teams with multiple first round picks. With even a little improvement playing what are this point looks like an easy schedule and we are looking at drafting at a point where several QBs off the board without a very big mortagage on future assets.
GM for this franchise. The fallacy of his argument has ALWAYS been Star QBs don’t grow on trees. Schoen and Daboll are initially looking to make chicken salad out of chicken shit. Failing that, they will go in another direction. They have too many cap issues to go the “ anyone but Jones” route.
I have said many times, in my opinion he needs to be other worldly good for a new deal with the Giants. I'm talking top 5, which is highly unlikely. And that includes franchise tag. Decent season = free agent.
Worst case scenario, Taylor is under contract next year for a very small amount.
Top 5! What if he shocks you and is top 10. You re going to Move on from a top 10 performance for whom?
What top 5 quarterback would you replace him with?
This post comes under the “anyone but Jones” category, which might not be the best way to do business
anybody else get the feeling Daboll has already made his mind up about DJ ? His faults are obvious and glaring. Maybe he does not believe they are correctable and he would rather have Jimmy G running his offense ?
anybody else get the feeling Daboll has already made his mind up about DJ ? His faults are obvious and glaring. Maybe he does not believe they are correctable and he would rather have Jimmy G running his offense ?
Talk is one thing. If it materializes, then your hypothesis will be proven correct
anybody else get the feeling Daboll has already made his mind up about DJ ? His faults are obvious and glaring. Maybe he does not believe they are correctable and he would rather have Jimmy G running his offense ?
You put the pieces together and that sure looks what has happened. Remember that minicamp report about how Jones had been playing poorly that was waved away by so many posters? I put credence to it and now his camp play has been poor. It may already be over. I think he may lose the starting job in August.
anybody else get the feeling Daboll has already made his mind up about DJ ? His faults are obvious and glaring. Maybe he does not believe they are correctable and he would rather have Jimmy G running his offense ?
You put the pieces together and that sure looks what has happened. Remember that minicamp report about how Jones had been playing poorly that was waved away by so many posters? I put credence to it and now his camp play has been poor. It may already be over. I think he may lose the starting job in August.
I never put credence into training camp reports. Iirc and for one of the million examples as to why, JG was berated for his training camp “production” and he then went to the SB..
I believe Schoen and Daboll really like DJ and feel he has potential. Coschspeak? Perhaps. But my uninformed opinion is that it’s not. I wouldn’t go after JG under any circumstances. Rather have Tyrod assume the reins if necessary
I have said many times, in my opinion he needs to be other worldly good for a new deal with the Giants. I'm talking top 5, which is highly unlikely. And that includes franchise tag. Decent season = free agent.
Worst case scenario, Taylor is under contract next year for a very small amount.
Top 5! What if he shocks you and is top 10. You re going to Move on from a top 10 performance for whom?
What top 5 quarterback would you replace him with?
This post comes under the “anyone but Jones” category, which might not be the best way to do business
It's not anybdy but Jones. It's an absolute refusal to pay in excess of $20M/year for a mediocre, at best, QB. Same goes for the tag. Even if for 1 year, you need to show [a lot[/b] more for over $30M.
I don't think Jones is terrible. I also do t thi k he is the only problem on this team the last few years. But, regardless of talent around him, make no mistake, he is still a big part. As a #6 overall lick, you are expected to elevate yourself and your teammates. Outside of a couple of games, he simply hasn't been that guy. So, why would I want to invest more time and money in him?
I also think they may have gotten a steal in Taylor at his price for 2 years. I think he is probably the better QB and at the very least one of the better backups in the league.
All that said, I would NOT even entertain a trade for JG. If they aren't happy with Jones, which I don't believe is the case anyway, then start Taylor, who is actually under contract next year for very little. But, do not trade valuable draft picks for another QB with difficulty staying on the field who is better, but not significantly enough better, in my opinion. This is not a team only a QB away from contending, so why trade for a QB when you have 2 for relatively little this year abd 1 for next year?
I have said many times, in my opinion he needs to be other worldly good for a new deal with the Giants. I'm talking top 5, which is highly unlikely. And that includes franchise tag. Decent season = free agent.
Worst case scenario, Taylor is under contract next year for a very small amount.
Top 5! What if he shocks you and is top 10. You re going to Move on from a top 10 performance for whom?
What top 5 quarterback would you replace him with?
This post comes under the “anyone but Jones” category, which might not be the best way to do business
It's not anybdy but Jones. It's an absolute refusal to pay in excess of $20M/year for a mediocre, at best, QB. Same goes for the tag. Even if for 1 year, you need to show [a lot[/b] more for over $30M.
I don't think Jones is terrible. I also do t thi k he is the only problem on this team the last few years. But, regardless of talent around him, make no mistake, he is still a big part. As a #6 overall lick, you are expected to elevate yourself and your teammates. Outside of a couple of games, he simply hasn't been that guy. So, why would I want to invest more time and money in him?
I also think they may have gotten a steal in Taylor at his price for 2 years. I think he is probably the better QB and at the very least one of the better backups in the league.
All that said, I would NOT even entertain a trade for JG. If they aren't happy with Jones, which I don't believe is the case anyway, then start Taylor, who is actually under contract next year for very little. But, do not trade valuable draft picks for another QB with difficulty staying on the field who is better, but not significantly enough better, in my opinion. This is not a team only a QB away from contending, so why trade for a QB when you have 2 for relatively little this year abd 1 for next year?
I agree he will probably never live up to his draft status, that was a mistake that can’t be undone
But if he has a top 10 year, IMO. it d be tough, even risky to move on from him
A team can win a championship with a top 10 quarterback. I don’t think you necessarily move on from a player because he didn’t live up to his draft status.
if he has a good season. I dont see a long term commitment off of 1 year success unless its a team friendly deal.
Dave Brown was a bad QB on so many levels. His accuracy was terrible and he threw a bad ball. Brown played on a pretty good but aging team. Jones is a much better athlete, throws the ball better and makes better decisions believe it or not. Dave Browns ceiling was career backup, I am surprised he lasted as long as he did in the league.
Huge, and personally, IMHO, anecdotally, I think...That this is barely worth discussing.
Rewind to last year at this time. What was the rhetoric on Daniel Jones? Well let me remind you - it was as follows -
"This is DJ's last chance", "this is the make or break year for him"..."he must perform"..."if he doesn't perform we KNOW what we have"
So now that 2021 is in the rearview, we have people saying the same thing.
Why? The team has bet that DJ is not the guy, and if they thought he was, the Giants would have extended him.....The team did not. He's a serviceable backup, that's about it. Only the most desperate teams would actually have him as a starter.
Lets not get outta control here...DJ is NOT going to have a good year....sorry.
RE: I think he will probably be on the franchise tag
if he has a good season. I dont see a long term commitment off of 1 year success unless its a team friendly deal.
Dave Brown was a bad QB on so many levels. His accuracy was terrible and he threw a bad ball. Brown played on a pretty good but aging team. Jones is a much better athlete, throws the ball better and makes better decisions believe it or not. Dave Browns ceiling was career backup, I am surprised he lasted as long as he did in the league.
Agreed. It's impossible to know what position we would be in by the time it comes to looking at another QB after 2022. It will be much easier if Jones is just terrible. I don't see that happening. As much as the usual crowd tries to overstate how "terrible" he is, the reality is right now he is likely a middle of the pack NFL QB. My guess is he has a decent season but not good enough to extend and likely gets franchised. But who knows? I'm not betting on anything. One thing I will say, Schoen has shown himself to be pragmatic so far, so I have confidence in his decision making (unlike with Gettleman). He and Daboll seem to be in lock step so even if DJ fails I have confidence at least in what they know they are looking for... we shall see.
Then we should franchise him. That is a high bar, but that is the bar that we need. Id say there's near a 0% chance of that happening, but if it does then he gets another year and a lot of $$ to prove that he can do it again.
So far, he's been awful. If he has a good year than he gets to prove its not a fluke. If he's "decent", then his overall career is still pretty close to awful and we should get a new QB
if he has a good season. I dont see a long term commitment off of 1 year success unless its a team friendly deal.
Dave Brown was a bad QB on so many levels. His accuracy was terrible and he threw a bad ball. Brown played on a pretty good but aging team. Jones is a much better athlete, throws the ball better and makes better decisions believe it or not. Dave Browns ceiling was career backup, I am surprised he lasted as long as he did in the league.
Agreed. It's impossible to know what position we would be in by the time it comes to looking at another QB after 2022. It will be much easier if Jones is just terrible. I don't see that happening. As much as the usual crowd tries to overstate how "terrible" he is, the reality is right now he is likely a middle of the pack NFL QB. My guess is he has a decent season but not good enough to extend and likely gets franchised. But who knows? I'm not betting on anything. One thing I will say, Schoen has shown himself to be pragmatic so far, so I have confidence in his decision making (unlike with Gettleman). He and Daboll seem to be in lock step so even if DJ fails I have confidence at least in what they know they are looking for... we shall see.
Right now he's middle of the pack? You want to say he could be that? Fine. Right now he is in the bottom half of the league.
I have said many times, in my opinion he needs to be other worldly good for a new deal with the Giants. I'm talking top 5, which is highly unlikely. And that includes franchise tag. Decent season = free agent.
Worst case scenario, Taylor is under contract next year for a very small amount.
Top 5! What if he shocks you and is top 10. You re going to Move on from a top 10 performance for whom?
What top 5 quarterback would you replace him with?
This post comes under the “anyone but Jones” category, which might not be the best way to do business
It's not anybdy but Jones. It's an absolute refusal to pay in excess of $20M/year for a mediocre, at best, QB. Same goes for the tag. Even if for 1 year, you need to show [a lot[/b] more for over $30M.
I don't think Jones is terrible. I also do t thi k he is the only problem on this team the last few years. But, regardless of talent around him, make no mistake, he is still a big part. As a #6 overall lick, you are expected to elevate yourself and your teammates. Outside of a couple of games, he simply hasn't been that guy. So, why would I want to invest more time and money in him?
I also think they may have gotten a steal in Taylor at his price for 2 years. I think he is probably the better QB and at the very least one of the better backups in the league.
All that said, I would NOT even entertain a trade for JG. If they aren't happy with Jones, which I don't believe is the case anyway, then start Taylor, who is actually under contract next year for very little. But, do not trade valuable draft picks for another QB with difficulty staying on the field who is better, but not significantly enough better, in my opinion. This is not a team only a QB away from contending, so why trade for a QB when you have 2 for relatively little this year abd 1 for next year?
I agree he will probably never live up to his draft status, that was a mistake that can’t be undone
But if he has a top 10 year, IMO. it d be tough, even risky to move on from him
A team can win a championship with a top 10 quarterback. I don’t think you necessarily move on from a player because he didn’t live up to his draft status.
joe - Personally, I think top 10 will be tough for him. Even if he did, the tag is a crazy amount of money for another show me year. I think this year has to show you he's your guy or not.
Yes, you can win with a top 10 QB. But, that requires a good team around the QB. The Giants will likely still be building next year, not contending.
in the archives. What has changed in 3, going on 4, years of Pro ball?
Quote:
Some of you asked about QBs & Jones in particular. Here is the QB podcast from early March & my Daniel Jones report is listed below it;
SCOUT'S HONOR PODCAST-SCOUTING ANALYSIS OF THE 2019 DRAFT'S QUARTERBACK CLASS
Here is another podcast dealing with the current draft eligible quarterbacks, as Paul Crane has Dave-Te open his scouting reports to cite reasons for going all in or treading with caution for teams that might be looking for that coveted franchise quarterback.
NOTE-For those curious, later tonight, Dave-Te will post a link to where you can read his full scouting reports on the quarterbacks expected to be drafted during the first two days of the process.
https://www.spreaker.com/episode/17300095
NFL Draft Overview - The Quarterbacks
Paul Crane and super scout Dave-Te' Thomas look at the quarterbacks in the upcoming draft. From Kyler Murray and Dwayne Haskins at the top through Drew Lock, Ryan Finley and all expected to be drafted. Also included several who may not be drafted but should make marks in NFL camps as UFAs along with one major sleeper and the team looking at him closely.
www.spreaker.com
In November, there seemed to be a bunch of scouts and analysts anointing Jones as the next "it" factor at quarterback. While it was not a case of the emperor being exposed for not wearing clothes, the deficiencies in Jones' overall game and weak lower body frame, along with inconsistent throwing in Mobile, likely has the Blue Devil waiting until Day Two to hear his name called. Still, with Miami and the Giants holding mid-first round selections, one of those teams could draft him a round too early rather than be a round too late (Redskins interested with pick #46 in round two).
Daniel Jones-#17
Duke University Blue Devils
6:05.1-221
Agility Tests...4.81 in the 40-yard dash�1.71 10-yard dash�2.83 20-yard dash�4.41 20-yard shuttle�7.00 three-cone drill...33 1/2-inch vertical jump�10'-00" broad jump�32 1/2-inch arm length�9 3/4-inch hands�78 1/8-inch wingspan.
College Career...Playing for head coach David Cutcliffe, the walk-on has responded under the guidance of a man aptly titled a "quarterback whisperer." The fourth-year junior played in 36 games at Duke, where he completed 764-of-1,275, as both figures rank fifth on the school career-record chart. His pass completion percentage of .599 is second-best by a Blue Devil, topped by Sean Renfree (.647; 898-1,389; 2009-12). With 8,201 yards passing, he is one of just five Duke's passers to reach the 7,500-yard level. He is also one of five Duke players to throw for at least fifty touchdowns (52). He did have 29 passes intercepted, but on 406 carries, he scored seventeen times while gaining 1,323 yards. He caught two passes for six yards and amassed 9,524 yards in total offense. He also had five punts for 170 yards (34.0-yard average).
Background...Jones was eligible to participate at the 2019 Senior Bowl because he graduated from Duke in December, 2018 with a degree in economics. He is not the only college athlete in his family, as sister, Becca, lettered four seasons (2013-14-15-16) as a member of the field hockey program at Davidson College. Their brother, Bates, is a member of the basketball program at Davidson. Their sister, Ruthie, signed a National Letter of Intent to play soccer at Duke University beginning in the fall of 2019.
Jones lettered three times on the gridiron at Charlotte Latin High School, where he helped the Hawks to a 19-5 record and two state championship game appearances. Elected a team captain as both a junior and senior, he departed Charlotte Latin holding school career records for total offensive yards (8,344), passing yards (6,997) and total touchdowns (98). During his senior campaign, he completed 151-of-268 passes for 2,949 yards and 43 touchdowns while rushing 109 times for 778 yards and ten scores to help Charlotte Latin to a 10-2 record and North Carolina Independent Schools Athletic Association (NCISAA) Division I state championship game appearance.
As a senior, Jones earned first team NCISAA all-state honors, first team all-conference accolades and the South Charlotte Sports Report Quarterback of the Year Award after setting school single-season records for total yards (3,727), passing yards and passing touchdowns. He also lettered three times in basketball, serving as a team co-captain during senior season.
Jones did not receive any major college offers, so he decided to enroll at Duke, joining the team as a walk-on in 2015. After spending that season with the scout team, he earned Freshman All-American honorable mention in 2016. He was the recipient of the program�s Carmen Falcone Award as Duke�s Most Valuable Player, as the Academic All-Atlantic Coast Conference selection was also a four-time ACC Rookie of the Week choice following performances against Notre Dame, Georgia Tech, North Carolina and Miami.
In twelve games, the red-shirt freshman completed 270-of-430 (.638) passes for 2,836 yards with 16 touchdowns and nine interceptions while rushing 141 times for 486 (3.45) yards and seven scores. He posted a pass efficiency rating of 126.28 in addition to catching one pass for zero yards and punting twice for 71 yards (35.50) with one boot downed inside the opponent 20 yard line.
In 2017, Jones was one of five major college quarterbacks to throw for over 2,500 yards and rush for over 500 yards during the campaign. The team captain and Quick Lane Bowl MVP was an Academic All-ACC selection and recipient of the program�s Ace Parker Award, an honor presented annually to an individual who displays unparalleled commitment to the team and overcomes adversity to contribute. He started all 13 games, completing 257-of-453 (.567) passes for 2,691 yards with 14 touchdowns and 11 interceptions while rushing 161 times for 518 yards (3.22) and seven scores. He posted a pass efficiency rating of 111.97, compiled 3,209 total offensive yards and punted once for 45 yards.
The Independence Bowl Offensive Player of the Game received the program�s Carmen Falcone Award as Duke�s Most Valuable Player in 2018, becoming the sixth two-time recipient of the honor, joining Leo Hart (1969-70), Keith Stoneback (1973-74), Scottie Montgomery (1998-99), Mike Hart (2000-01) and John Talley (2005-06). He started all eleven games he appeared in, but missed the Baylor and North Carolina Central tilts after he suffered a fractured left clavicle in the third quarter versus Northwestern, undergoing surgery on September 9th.
Jones connected on 237-of-392 (.605) passes for 2,674 yards with 22 scores and nine pass thefts while rushing 104 times for 319 yards (3.07). He recorded a pass efficiency rating of 131.69 while tallying 2,993 total offensive yards, an average of 272.09 yards per game. He caught one pass for six yards and punted twice for 54 yards (27.00) with both kicks downed inside the opponent 20-yard line.
Among the top quarterbacks in this draft class, his average depth of target ranked 40th (8.69 ypc), placing 37th within that group when throwing under pressure (47-of-114 passes, 41.2%, 53.9 pass rating with three touchdowns, four interceptions). As for his deep passing skills, he ranks 47, having hit on only 11-of-45 chances (24.44%) for 425 yards, six touchdowns and four interceptions (69.0 passer rating). He was sacked 28 times for losses of 172 yards, turning the ball over four times on five fumbles, as he saw 51 passes deflected by the opposition.
The Scouting Report
Athletic Ability...Jones has a tall frame with adequate upper body muscle definition, and his lower frame needs to develop better muscle tone. He has adequate thighs and calves, but displays good hand size and arm length that you look for in a pocket passer. His frame certainly has room for further bulk and muscle development.
Jones has good size and arm strength for the quarterback position, but despite average straight-ahead speed, he lacks athletic agility and looks stiff in his change of direction (4.41 20-yard shuttle). He can get some yardage off the bootleg, but seems to lack vision on the move, as he will run into spots or just toss the ball away with dire consequences (see fumbles vs. Army, Georgia Tech, Pittsburgh and North Carolina in 2018). He operates in a play-action scheme, but when he tries to work under a run-pass option format, he needs to be more conscious of protecting the pigskin.
Jones does have the arm strength that pro teams want him to display, but has had just �pedestrian� numbers in each of his three seasons, never cracking the 3,000 aerial yards or 25 touchdown level. He has adequate quickness dropping back from center, but lacks the feet to avoid the pass rush, as he tends to lose balance when flushed out of the pocket. His arm strength is his best asset, especially on short-to-intermediate tosses, but his long ball game suffers, having hit on just 11-of-45 of those attempts last season. He has enough ability to consistently put the ball where the receiver can catch it in the short areas, but when he attempts to go the distance, perhaps he would be better suited locating second and third option targets instead of just throwing the ball into a crowd (four of his 45 deep passes were intercepted, seven others were deflected).
Football Sense...Jones benefits from having one of the better quarterback coaches in the game of football (David Cutcliffe). The former walk-on is a quick learner who seems to know protections, but you would like to see him improve when it comes to recognizing coverage on the pre-snap and on his pass drops. He is effective at reading hot routes, but must become quicker in attempts to pick up the blitz. He is a three-time Academic All-Atlantic Coast Conference pick and graduated after just three years, so it is obvious that he will not have problems digesting a complicated playbook.
Still, this is a young player who needs to do a better job of reading zone coverage, at times, as he will throw into tight windows (See Virginia and Temple games) and he will force the ball into a crowd every so often. In order to increase his chances for starting at the next level, he must do a better job of looking off his primary targets and go through route progressions.
Set Up...As book smart as he is, Jones still looks like a neophyte when it comes to reading defenses. Having a coach call your plays eliminated much of his thought process, but he is not the type who will stand tall and absorb the sack, making poor choices trying to throw the ball into the crowd (51 pass break-ups included 18 at the line of scrimmage). While not alarming, his fumble issues seem to be the result of poor ball distribution when forced to improvise on the move.
He does not really have heavy feet, but there are times where he looks too methodical in his drops. Once his feet are set, he will stand and deliver, though. He has a decent throwing motion, but has a bit of a wind-up in his release. He has the body control to stand tall and be ready in the pocket, but he seems to lose some velocity on his tosses when throwing on the run. His quickness dropping back from center is good and he does keep his feet under him, playing with good balance in the pocket (does not translate when flushed out though).
Reading Defenses...Jones has to overcome his �love� for his primary target and do a better job of going through route progression to locate secondary targets. When he tries to force the issue too much when under pressure, it results in him firing the ball right into windows. While his interception rate was low (nine in 2018 on 392 attempts), the opponents go to deflect 13% of his passes (51) in 2018. He is prone to making some bad decisions, as he just seems to throw too much into double coverage (see at least eight passes deflected in each of the Virginia Tech, North Carolina and Clemson games). When he is quick to pick up the blitz, he knows where to go with the ball, showing good vision and judgment on his reads, but he tends to force the ball into coverage when his protection breaks down. He does show good timing and touch, but he has to stop forcing his throws into coverage.
He can be smooth driving back from center to his throwing point, but lacks the suddenness to avoid and slip tackles on the move. When he stands tall in the pocket, he is more accurate, but he needs to work on making all his throws from the outside hash (loses accuracy, especially when he doesn�t step into his passes).
Release...With that little hitch/wind-up, Jones will be inconsistent with his release. He locks on to his target, starts patting the ball waiting for it to open and fails to make progression reads as you would expect from a player with his intelligence level. In Mobile, he seems to show a high release on his throws. He sometimes reverted to a full wind up, but there were times that he showed the ability to deliver most of his throws with quickness. Even when he used a long throwing motion, he got the ball away in time. When he kept his delivery a little bit higher than �, he carried the ball properly to get a quick release.
In a recent report from one team with a quarterback need, they recognize that Jones is generally effective vs. man coverage, but does struggle quite a bit in attempts to recognize the zone coverage, where most of his costly mistakes (interceptions, pass break-ups) happen. He makes questionable decisions when flushed out of the pocket (see Georgia Tech, Pittsburgh, North Carolina games) and needs to do a better job of surveying and going through progressions rather than locking on to his primary target (does not look off well enough).
Arm Strength...There is no questioning his arm strength, but Jones needs to improve his touchdown to interception ratio. His short passes are generally on target, except when forced to throw on the move. He has good touch with accuracy on the short throws, putting the ball where the receiver can catch it. He just does not show great accuracy throwing long, as he will force several throws into coverage rather than toss the ball away. He needs to do a better job of reading defenders and coverage before he attempts to air it out.
Jones compensates for his adequate zone coverage reading skills with good power and snap in his release. He delivers the ball with good over-the-top mechanics and releases the ball with good quickness, coming straight back with the ball to generate more power behind his throws. He tends to generate a higher push in his delivery when throwing on the move, as some of those throws will wobble a bit, especially when he uses a big wind-up. Still, for a long-armed passer, he is conscious of not using a windmill motion much.
Accuracy...Jones shows adequate zip on his short to intermediate throws, but his long ball does float too much and he needs to get the ball away with a more consistent spiral (ball gets away from him when going deep). He can throw in the seam, but tends to feather the ball more than he should (has completed just 59.9% of his career passes). Jones won�t spray the ball all over the field, but when he tries to fire it at the numbers, he left more than a few passes behind in 2018 (see Virginia Tech, Virginia, Clemson, Wake Forest games). When he holds the ball too long waiting for his targets to break, he struggles. He shows very good touch and accuracy on the fade routes, but sometimes will hang it in the air of deep tosses.
Touch...Jones is a bit inconsistent throwing the deep comeback from the opposite end of the field. He shows better touch and accuracy throwing short and intermediate. He takes a little too much off the ball throwing long (ball floats). He has decent anticipation and timing on routes, but there are occasions where he needs to throw the ball quicker, especially when pressured. On most of his pass thefts, it seemed as if he was not taking a good enough pre-snap look to see coverage and make the adjustment.
Poise...Jones plays with good poise, as he will stand tall in the pocket and step into his throws. He can take a shot and stay composed in the pocket, but he will try to force some throws when trying to escape pressure. He has a presence standing in the pocket and is mechanically sound when not flushed out. He has good touch on short-to-intermediate throws and shows more than enough arm strength going deep (just inconsistent), but his long ball gets him in trouble when he does not properly read zone coverage, resulting in him forcing his throws when going deep (tends to float it up for grabs). He generally throws a nice, easy ball with very good placement standing or stepping up in the pocket, though (troubles happen on the move). When given time, he can get the ball off with a tight spiral and good arc, allowing the receivers to catch in stride rather than have to adjust in their routes.
Pocket Movement/Scrambling Ability...You would like to see Jones slide and avoid rather than try to run over defenders, as that led to injury issues early in the 2018 campaign. He seems to go through a long timing pattern before bailing on the pocket. He is only adequate when throwing the ball rolling out and scrambling, as he lacks great mobility and elusiveness in and out of the pocket. He moves around, but lacks the sudden burst to be effective running the ball. He will step up and buy time, but is not a threat with his feet. He does have decent timed speed, but perhaps due to his tall, lanky frame, he fails to sink his pads and looks awkward when he has to run with the ball.
Jones is more effective looking off and freezing a safety when standing in the pocket than when forced to roll out. He can move well enough to stay alive, but when he holds on to the ball too long, he then forces it into a crowd. If your offense is looking for Jones to scramble or get any yards running with the ball, that could be a problem. He is a productive quarterback in the pocket, but even with his timed speed, he is also a marginal open field runner. He squares his shoulders properly on delivery, but does not have the scrambling skills or avoidance ability to throw on the run, as he does not look natural doing this. He seems to be more productive throwing when running to his right than to the opposite field.
Compares To...Marc Bulger-ex-St. Louis Rams...Some think Jones is the second coming of Ryan Tannehill, but there is more polish in the Blue Devils game. While Jones has the pro size, he will need to add more bulk. He has good command in the huddle, but despite what some others feel, there seems to be too much inconsistency with him throwing long, especially on the move. He tries to force the ball too much between second level defenders and one look at the high amount of passes that have been picked off or deflected, he still needs a lot of coaching and tutoring.
I have said many times, in my opinion he needs to be other worldly good for a new deal with the Giants. I'm talking top 5, which is highly unlikely. And that includes franchise tag. Decent season = free agent.
Worst case scenario, Taylor is under contract next year for a very small amount.
Top 5! What if he shocks you and is top 10. You re going to Move on from a top 10 performance for whom?
What top 5 quarterback would you replace him with?
This post comes under the “anyone but Jones” category, which might not be the best way to do business
It's not anybdy but Jones. It's an absolute refusal to pay in excess of $20M/year for a mediocre, at best, QB. Same goes for the tag. Even if for 1 year, you need to show [a lot[/b] more for over $30M.
I don't think Jones is terrible. I also do t thi k he is the only problem on this team the last few years. But, regardless of talent around him, make no mistake, he is still a big part. As a #6 overall lick, you are expected to elevate yourself and your teammates. Outside of a couple of games, he simply hasn't been that guy. So, why would I want to invest more time and money in him?
I also think they may have gotten a steal in Taylor at his price for 2 years. I think he is probably the better QB and at the very least one of the better backups in the league.
All that said, I would NOT even entertain a trade for JG. If they aren't happy with Jones, which I don't believe is the case anyway, then start Taylor, who is actually under contract next year for very little. But, do not trade valuable draft picks for another QB with difficulty staying on the field who is better, but not significantly enough better, in my opinion. This is not a team only a QB away from contending, so why trade for a QB when you have 2 for relatively little this year abd 1 for next year?
I agree he will probably never live up to his draft status, that was a mistake that can’t be undone
But if he has a top 10 year, IMO. it d be tough, even risky to move on from him
A team can win a championship with a top 10 quarterback. I don’t think you necessarily move on from a player because he didn’t live up to his draft status.
joe - Personally, I think top 10 will be tough for him. Even if he did, the tag is a crazy amount of money for another show me year. I think this year has to show you he's your guy or not.
Yes, you can win with a top 10 QB. But, that requires a good team around the QB. The Giants will likely still be building next year, not contending.
I agree too 10 will be tough. I m not real confident it turns out well with him. But he s talented, been in a horrible situation and I wanted him back this season.
If he approaches 3,500 + yards, 25 to 30 TD, 10 to 12 turnovers, I d want him back
Unless Jones plays completely out of his mind and posts production that lands him in the top five in KPI, he should never wear a NYG uniform again.
Because the bar for DJ defenders is so low it is below the ground.
I hope he looks like Patrick Mahomes this season & proves me & all his doubters wrong. But I wouldn't bet on it.
Nice kid & hard worker from all accounts. Easy guy to root for. But probably a backup QB in this league from all we've seen.
Schoen & Daboll have no ties to him so I expect-barring a miracle-we're moving on after this season.
Decent is defined as moving on at QB...
What was interesting was when Brown went to the Cardinals he actually played relatively well and looked less horrible compared to his stint in NY.
From a Jones perspective, I don’t have high hopes for this season. He seems like a really good guy and very smart, but his football instincts seem very very poor. He holds the ball too long, doesn’t seem to make the right read on many occasions, and you just don’t get that “winning QB” vibe from him in general. A big part of the QB position is intangibles and that’s where Jones doesn’t meet expectations.
Would you prefer shuffling through quarterbacks like Cleveland has been for nearly 25 years?
I 100% agree with this post. You can’t wait forever. Cleveland’s Watson deal is strange, but I give them credit for admitting Mayfield is not the guy and getting rid of him.
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No more “but his WRs, but his OC, third OC in 4 years.” If he’s anything other than very very good you move on. Look at the stud qbs in this league - Rodgers, Mahomes, Jackson, Stafford, Burrow, Herbert, Allen, etc. If you don’t have one of those guys you’re not winning a super bowl. If he has a “decent” season then best case you’re stuck in qb purgatory with a Cousins, Jimmy G, Tannehill type which is the worst place to be
Would you prefer shuffling through quarterbacks like Cleveland has been for nearly 25 years?
If you have a competent GM, that problem should be avoided.
I think at least one playoff win, a top 10 offense, 32+TDs and <16 turnovers would make me think hard about tagging him or working out a 2-year extension. He may decide he can do better than that.
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No more “but his WRs, but his OC, third OC in 4 years.” If he’s anything other than very very good you move on. Look at the stud qbs in this league - Rodgers, Mahomes, Jackson, Stafford, Burrow, Herbert, Allen, etc. If you don’t have one of those guys you’re not winning a super bowl. If he has a “decent” season then best case you’re stuck in qb purgatory with a Cousins, Jimmy G, Tannehill type which is the worst place to be
Would you prefer shuffling through quarterbacks like Cleveland has been for nearly 25 years?
Why is keeping the same shitty QB preferable to cycling through potential replacements in pursuit of improvement?
Some of you are feckless with inertia.
Worst case scenario, Taylor is under contract next year for a very small amount.
Worst case scenario, Taylor is under contract next year for a very small amount.
Top 5! What if he shocks you and is top 10. You re going to Move on from a top 10 performance for whom?
What top 5 quarterback would you replace him with?
This post comes under the “anyone but Jones” category, which might not be the best way to do business
Talk is one thing. If it materializes, then your hypothesis will be proven correct
You put the pieces together and that sure looks what has happened. Remember that minicamp report about how Jones had been playing poorly that was waved away by so many posters? I put credence to it and now his camp play has been poor. It may already be over. I think he may lose the starting job in August.
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anybody else get the feeling Daboll has already made his mind up about DJ ? His faults are obvious and glaring. Maybe he does not believe they are correctable and he would rather have Jimmy G running his offense ?
You put the pieces together and that sure looks what has happened. Remember that minicamp report about how Jones had been playing poorly that was waved away by so many posters? I put credence to it and now his camp play has been poor. It may already be over. I think he may lose the starting job in August.
I never put credence into training camp reports. Iirc and for one of the million examples as to why, JG was berated for his training camp “production” and he then went to the SB..
I believe Schoen and Daboll really like DJ and feel he has potential. Coschspeak? Perhaps. But my uninformed opinion is that it’s not. I wouldn’t go after JG under any circumstances. Rather have Tyrod assume the reins if necessary
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I have said many times, in my opinion he needs to be other worldly good for a new deal with the Giants. I'm talking top 5, which is highly unlikely. And that includes franchise tag. Decent season = free agent.
Worst case scenario, Taylor is under contract next year for a very small amount.
Top 5! What if he shocks you and is top 10. You re going to Move on from a top 10 performance for whom?
What top 5 quarterback would you replace him with?
This post comes under the “anyone but Jones” category, which might not be the best way to do business
I don't think Jones is terrible. I also do t thi k he is the only problem on this team the last few years. But, regardless of talent around him, make no mistake, he is still a big part. As a #6 overall lick, you are expected to elevate yourself and your teammates. Outside of a couple of games, he simply hasn't been that guy. So, why would I want to invest more time and money in him?
I also think they may have gotten a steal in Taylor at his price for 2 years. I think he is probably the better QB and at the very least one of the better backups in the league.
All that said, I would NOT even entertain a trade for JG. If they aren't happy with Jones, which I don't believe is the case anyway, then start Taylor, who is actually under contract next year for very little. But, do not trade valuable draft picks for another QB with difficulty staying on the field who is better, but not significantly enough better, in my opinion. This is not a team only a QB away from contending, so why trade for a QB when you have 2 for relatively little this year abd 1 for next year?
Quote:
In comment 15767618 Matt M. said:
Quote:
I have said many times, in my opinion he needs to be other worldly good for a new deal with the Giants. I'm talking top 5, which is highly unlikely. And that includes franchise tag. Decent season = free agent.
Worst case scenario, Taylor is under contract next year for a very small amount.
Top 5! What if he shocks you and is top 10. You re going to Move on from a top 10 performance for whom?
What top 5 quarterback would you replace him with?
This post comes under the “anyone but Jones” category, which might not be the best way to do business
It's not anybdy but Jones. It's an absolute refusal to pay in excess of $20M/year for a mediocre, at best, QB. Same goes for the tag. Even if for 1 year, you need to show [a lot[/b] more for over $30M.
I don't think Jones is terrible. I also do t thi k he is the only problem on this team the last few years. But, regardless of talent around him, make no mistake, he is still a big part. As a #6 overall lick, you are expected to elevate yourself and your teammates. Outside of a couple of games, he simply hasn't been that guy. So, why would I want to invest more time and money in him?
I also think they may have gotten a steal in Taylor at his price for 2 years. I think he is probably the better QB and at the very least one of the better backups in the league.
All that said, I would NOT even entertain a trade for JG. If they aren't happy with Jones, which I don't believe is the case anyway, then start Taylor, who is actually under contract next year for very little. But, do not trade valuable draft picks for another QB with difficulty staying on the field who is better, but not significantly enough better, in my opinion. This is not a team only a QB away from contending, so why trade for a QB when you have 2 for relatively little this year abd 1 for next year?
I agree he will probably never live up to his draft status, that was a mistake that can’t be undone
But if he has a top 10 year, IMO. it d be tough, even risky to move on from him
A team can win a championship with a top 10 quarterback. I don’t think you necessarily move on from a player because he didn’t live up to his draft status.
Dave Brown was a bad QB on so many levels. His accuracy was terrible and he threw a bad ball. Brown played on a pretty good but aging team. Jones is a much better athlete, throws the ball better and makes better decisions believe it or not. Dave Browns ceiling was career backup, I am surprised he lasted as long as he did in the league.
Rewind to last year at this time. What was the rhetoric on Daniel Jones? Well let me remind you - it was as follows -
"This is DJ's last chance", "this is the make or break year for him"..."he must perform"..."if he doesn't perform we KNOW what we have"
So now that 2021 is in the rearview, we have people saying the same thing.
Why? The team has bet that DJ is not the guy, and if they thought he was, the Giants would have extended him.....The team did not. He's a serviceable backup, that's about it. Only the most desperate teams would actually have him as a starter.
Lets not get outta control here...DJ is NOT going to have a good year....sorry.
Dave Brown was a bad QB on so many levels. His accuracy was terrible and he threw a bad ball. Brown played on a pretty good but aging team. Jones is a much better athlete, throws the ball better and makes better decisions believe it or not. Dave Browns ceiling was career backup, I am surprised he lasted as long as he did in the league.
Agreed. It's impossible to know what position we would be in by the time it comes to looking at another QB after 2022. It will be much easier if Jones is just terrible. I don't see that happening. As much as the usual crowd tries to overstate how "terrible" he is, the reality is right now he is likely a middle of the pack NFL QB. My guess is he has a decent season but not good enough to extend and likely gets franchised. But who knows? I'm not betting on anything. One thing I will say, Schoen has shown himself to be pragmatic so far, so I have confidence in his decision making (unlike with Gettleman). He and Daboll seem to be in lock step so even if DJ fails I have confidence at least in what they know they are looking for... we shall see.
So far, he's been awful. If he has a good year than he gets to prove its not a fluke. If he's "decent", then his overall career is still pretty close to awful and we should get a new QB
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if he has a good season. I dont see a long term commitment off of 1 year success unless its a team friendly deal.
Dave Brown was a bad QB on so many levels. His accuracy was terrible and he threw a bad ball. Brown played on a pretty good but aging team. Jones is a much better athlete, throws the ball better and makes better decisions believe it or not. Dave Browns ceiling was career backup, I am surprised he lasted as long as he did in the league.
Agreed. It's impossible to know what position we would be in by the time it comes to looking at another QB after 2022. It will be much easier if Jones is just terrible. I don't see that happening. As much as the usual crowd tries to overstate how "terrible" he is, the reality is right now he is likely a middle of the pack NFL QB. My guess is he has a decent season but not good enough to extend and likely gets franchised. But who knows? I'm not betting on anything. One thing I will say, Schoen has shown himself to be pragmatic so far, so I have confidence in his decision making (unlike with Gettleman). He and Daboll seem to be in lock step so even if DJ fails I have confidence at least in what they know they are looking for... we shall see.
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In comment 15767633 joeinpa said:
Quote:
In comment 15767618 Matt M. said:
Quote:
I have said many times, in my opinion he needs to be other worldly good for a new deal with the Giants. I'm talking top 5, which is highly unlikely. And that includes franchise tag. Decent season = free agent.
Worst case scenario, Taylor is under contract next year for a very small amount.
Top 5! What if he shocks you and is top 10. You re going to Move on from a top 10 performance for whom?
What top 5 quarterback would you replace him with?
This post comes under the “anyone but Jones” category, which might not be the best way to do business
It's not anybdy but Jones. It's an absolute refusal to pay in excess of $20M/year for a mediocre, at best, QB. Same goes for the tag. Even if for 1 year, you need to show [a lot[/b] more for over $30M.
I don't think Jones is terrible. I also do t thi k he is the only problem on this team the last few years. But, regardless of talent around him, make no mistake, he is still a big part. As a #6 overall lick, you are expected to elevate yourself and your teammates. Outside of a couple of games, he simply hasn't been that guy. So, why would I want to invest more time and money in him?
I also think they may have gotten a steal in Taylor at his price for 2 years. I think he is probably the better QB and at the very least one of the better backups in the league.
All that said, I would NOT even entertain a trade for JG. If they aren't happy with Jones, which I don't believe is the case anyway, then start Taylor, who is actually under contract next year for very little. But, do not trade valuable draft picks for another QB with difficulty staying on the field who is better, but not significantly enough better, in my opinion. This is not a team only a QB away from contending, so why trade for a QB when you have 2 for relatively little this year abd 1 for next year?
I agree he will probably never live up to his draft status, that was a mistake that can’t be undone
But if he has a top 10 year, IMO. it d be tough, even risky to move on from him
A team can win a championship with a top 10 quarterback. I don’t think you necessarily move on from a player because he didn’t live up to his draft status.
Yes, you can win with a top 10 QB. But, that requires a good team around the QB. The Giants will likely still be building next year, not contending.
@JustinPenik
Daniel Jones has been… not very good today. Lot of inaccurate throws. Most uncomfortable he’s looked so far in camp.
SCOUT'S HONOR PODCAST-SCOUTING ANALYSIS OF THE 2019 DRAFT'S QUARTERBACK CLASS
Here is another podcast dealing with the current draft eligible quarterbacks, as Paul Crane has Dave-Te open his scouting reports to cite reasons for going all in or treading with caution for teams that might be looking for that coveted franchise quarterback.
NOTE-For those curious, later tonight, Dave-Te will post a link to where you can read his full scouting reports on the quarterbacks expected to be drafted during the first two days of the process.
https://www.spreaker.com/episode/17300095
NFL Draft Overview - The Quarterbacks
Paul Crane and super scout Dave-Te' Thomas look at the quarterbacks in the upcoming draft. From Kyler Murray and Dwayne Haskins at the top through Drew Lock, Ryan Finley and all expected to be drafted. Also included several who may not be drafted but should make marks in NFL camps as UFAs along with one major sleeper and the team looking at him closely.
www.spreaker.com
In November, there seemed to be a bunch of scouts and analysts anointing Jones as the next "it" factor at quarterback. While it was not a case of the emperor being exposed for not wearing clothes, the deficiencies in Jones' overall game and weak lower body frame, along with inconsistent throwing in Mobile, likely has the Blue Devil waiting until Day Two to hear his name called. Still, with Miami and the Giants holding mid-first round selections, one of those teams could draft him a round too early rather than be a round too late (Redskins interested with pick #46 in round two).
Daniel Jones-#17
Duke University Blue Devils
6:05.1-221
Agility Tests...4.81 in the 40-yard dash�1.71 10-yard dash�2.83 20-yard dash�4.41 20-yard shuttle�7.00 three-cone drill...33 1/2-inch vertical jump�10'-00" broad jump�32 1/2-inch arm length�9 3/4-inch hands�78 1/8-inch wingspan.
College Career...Playing for head coach David Cutcliffe, the walk-on has responded under the guidance of a man aptly titled a "quarterback whisperer." The fourth-year junior played in 36 games at Duke, where he completed 764-of-1,275, as both figures rank fifth on the school career-record chart. His pass completion percentage of .599 is second-best by a Blue Devil, topped by Sean Renfree (.647; 898-1,389; 2009-12). With 8,201 yards passing, he is one of just five Duke's passers to reach the 7,500-yard level. He is also one of five Duke players to throw for at least fifty touchdowns (52). He did have 29 passes intercepted, but on 406 carries, he scored seventeen times while gaining 1,323 yards. He caught two passes for six yards and amassed 9,524 yards in total offense. He also had five punts for 170 yards (34.0-yard average).
Background...Jones was eligible to participate at the 2019 Senior Bowl because he graduated from Duke in December, 2018 with a degree in economics. He is not the only college athlete in his family, as sister, Becca, lettered four seasons (2013-14-15-16) as a member of the field hockey program at Davidson College. Their brother, Bates, is a member of the basketball program at Davidson. Their sister, Ruthie, signed a National Letter of Intent to play soccer at Duke University beginning in the fall of 2019.
Jones lettered three times on the gridiron at Charlotte Latin High School, where he helped the Hawks to a 19-5 record and two state championship game appearances. Elected a team captain as both a junior and senior, he departed Charlotte Latin holding school career records for total offensive yards (8,344), passing yards (6,997) and total touchdowns (98). During his senior campaign, he completed 151-of-268 passes for 2,949 yards and 43 touchdowns while rushing 109 times for 778 yards and ten scores to help Charlotte Latin to a 10-2 record and North Carolina Independent Schools Athletic Association (NCISAA) Division I state championship game appearance.
As a senior, Jones earned first team NCISAA all-state honors, first team all-conference accolades and the South Charlotte Sports Report Quarterback of the Year Award after setting school single-season records for total yards (3,727), passing yards and passing touchdowns. He also lettered three times in basketball, serving as a team co-captain during senior season.
Jones did not receive any major college offers, so he decided to enroll at Duke, joining the team as a walk-on in 2015. After spending that season with the scout team, he earned Freshman All-American honorable mention in 2016. He was the recipient of the program�s Carmen Falcone Award as Duke�s Most Valuable Player, as the Academic All-Atlantic Coast Conference selection was also a four-time ACC Rookie of the Week choice following performances against Notre Dame, Georgia Tech, North Carolina and Miami.
In twelve games, the red-shirt freshman completed 270-of-430 (.638) passes for 2,836 yards with 16 touchdowns and nine interceptions while rushing 141 times for 486 (3.45) yards and seven scores. He posted a pass efficiency rating of 126.28 in addition to catching one pass for zero yards and punting twice for 71 yards (35.50) with one boot downed inside the opponent 20 yard line.
In 2017, Jones was one of five major college quarterbacks to throw for over 2,500 yards and rush for over 500 yards during the campaign. The team captain and Quick Lane Bowl MVP was an Academic All-ACC selection and recipient of the program�s Ace Parker Award, an honor presented annually to an individual who displays unparalleled commitment to the team and overcomes adversity to contribute. He started all 13 games, completing 257-of-453 (.567) passes for 2,691 yards with 14 touchdowns and 11 interceptions while rushing 161 times for 518 yards (3.22) and seven scores. He posted a pass efficiency rating of 111.97, compiled 3,209 total offensive yards and punted once for 45 yards.
The Independence Bowl Offensive Player of the Game received the program�s Carmen Falcone Award as Duke�s Most Valuable Player in 2018, becoming the sixth two-time recipient of the honor, joining Leo Hart (1969-70), Keith Stoneback (1973-74), Scottie Montgomery (1998-99), Mike Hart (2000-01) and John Talley (2005-06). He started all eleven games he appeared in, but missed the Baylor and North Carolina Central tilts after he suffered a fractured left clavicle in the third quarter versus Northwestern, undergoing surgery on September 9th.
Jones connected on 237-of-392 (.605) passes for 2,674 yards with 22 scores and nine pass thefts while rushing 104 times for 319 yards (3.07). He recorded a pass efficiency rating of 131.69 while tallying 2,993 total offensive yards, an average of 272.09 yards per game. He caught one pass for six yards and punted twice for 54 yards (27.00) with both kicks downed inside the opponent 20-yard line.
Among the top quarterbacks in this draft class, his average depth of target ranked 40th (8.69 ypc), placing 37th within that group when throwing under pressure (47-of-114 passes, 41.2%, 53.9 pass rating with three touchdowns, four interceptions). As for his deep passing skills, he ranks 47, having hit on only 11-of-45 chances (24.44%) for 425 yards, six touchdowns and four interceptions (69.0 passer rating). He was sacked 28 times for losses of 172 yards, turning the ball over four times on five fumbles, as he saw 51 passes deflected by the opposition.
The Scouting Report
Athletic Ability...Jones has a tall frame with adequate upper body muscle definition, and his lower frame needs to develop better muscle tone. He has adequate thighs and calves, but displays good hand size and arm length that you look for in a pocket passer. His frame certainly has room for further bulk and muscle development.
Jones has good size and arm strength for the quarterback position, but despite average straight-ahead speed, he lacks athletic agility and looks stiff in his change of direction (4.41 20-yard shuttle). He can get some yardage off the bootleg, but seems to lack vision on the move, as he will run into spots or just toss the ball away with dire consequences (see fumbles vs. Army, Georgia Tech, Pittsburgh and North Carolina in 2018). He operates in a play-action scheme, but when he tries to work under a run-pass option format, he needs to be more conscious of protecting the pigskin.
Jones does have the arm strength that pro teams want him to display, but has had just �pedestrian� numbers in each of his three seasons, never cracking the 3,000 aerial yards or 25 touchdown level. He has adequate quickness dropping back from center, but lacks the feet to avoid the pass rush, as he tends to lose balance when flushed out of the pocket. His arm strength is his best asset, especially on short-to-intermediate tosses, but his long ball game suffers, having hit on just 11-of-45 of those attempts last season. He has enough ability to consistently put the ball where the receiver can catch it in the short areas, but when he attempts to go the distance, perhaps he would be better suited locating second and third option targets instead of just throwing the ball into a crowd (four of his 45 deep passes were intercepted, seven others were deflected).
Football Sense...Jones benefits from having one of the better quarterback coaches in the game of football (David Cutcliffe). The former walk-on is a quick learner who seems to know protections, but you would like to see him improve when it comes to recognizing coverage on the pre-snap and on his pass drops. He is effective at reading hot routes, but must become quicker in attempts to pick up the blitz. He is a three-time Academic All-Atlantic Coast Conference pick and graduated after just three years, so it is obvious that he will not have problems digesting a complicated playbook.
Still, this is a young player who needs to do a better job of reading zone coverage, at times, as he will throw into tight windows (See Virginia and Temple games) and he will force the ball into a crowd every so often. In order to increase his chances for starting at the next level, he must do a better job of looking off his primary targets and go through route progressions.
Set Up...As book smart as he is, Jones still looks like a neophyte when it comes to reading defenses. Having a coach call your plays eliminated much of his thought process, but he is not the type who will stand tall and absorb the sack, making poor choices trying to throw the ball into the crowd (51 pass break-ups included 18 at the line of scrimmage). While not alarming, his fumble issues seem to be the result of poor ball distribution when forced to improvise on the move.
He does not really have heavy feet, but there are times where he looks too methodical in his drops. Once his feet are set, he will stand and deliver, though. He has a decent throwing motion, but has a bit of a wind-up in his release. He has the body control to stand tall and be ready in the pocket, but he seems to lose some velocity on his tosses when throwing on the run. His quickness dropping back from center is good and he does keep his feet under him, playing with good balance in the pocket (does not translate when flushed out though).
Reading Defenses...Jones has to overcome his �love� for his primary target and do a better job of going through route progression to locate secondary targets. When he tries to force the issue too much when under pressure, it results in him firing the ball right into windows. While his interception rate was low (nine in 2018 on 392 attempts), the opponents go to deflect 13% of his passes (51) in 2018. He is prone to making some bad decisions, as he just seems to throw too much into double coverage (see at least eight passes deflected in each of the Virginia Tech, North Carolina and Clemson games). When he is quick to pick up the blitz, he knows where to go with the ball, showing good vision and judgment on his reads, but he tends to force the ball into coverage when his protection breaks down. He does show good timing and touch, but he has to stop forcing his throws into coverage.
He can be smooth driving back from center to his throwing point, but lacks the suddenness to avoid and slip tackles on the move. When he stands tall in the pocket, he is more accurate, but he needs to work on making all his throws from the outside hash (loses accuracy, especially when he doesn�t step into his passes).
Release...With that little hitch/wind-up, Jones will be inconsistent with his release. He locks on to his target, starts patting the ball waiting for it to open and fails to make progression reads as you would expect from a player with his intelligence level. In Mobile, he seems to show a high release on his throws. He sometimes reverted to a full wind up, but there were times that he showed the ability to deliver most of his throws with quickness. Even when he used a long throwing motion, he got the ball away in time. When he kept his delivery a little bit higher than �, he carried the ball properly to get a quick release.
In a recent report from one team with a quarterback need, they recognize that Jones is generally effective vs. man coverage, but does struggle quite a bit in attempts to recognize the zone coverage, where most of his costly mistakes (interceptions, pass break-ups) happen. He makes questionable decisions when flushed out of the pocket (see Georgia Tech, Pittsburgh, North Carolina games) and needs to do a better job of surveying and going through progressions rather than locking on to his primary target (does not look off well enough).
Arm Strength...There is no questioning his arm strength, but Jones needs to improve his touchdown to interception ratio. His short passes are generally on target, except when forced to throw on the move. He has good touch with accuracy on the short throws, putting the ball where the receiver can catch it. He just does not show great accuracy throwing long, as he will force several throws into coverage rather than toss the ball away. He needs to do a better job of reading defenders and coverage before he attempts to air it out.
Jones compensates for his adequate zone coverage reading skills with good power and snap in his release. He delivers the ball with good over-the-top mechanics and releases the ball with good quickness, coming straight back with the ball to generate more power behind his throws. He tends to generate a higher push in his delivery when throwing on the move, as some of those throws will wobble a bit, especially when he uses a big wind-up. Still, for a long-armed passer, he is conscious of not using a windmill motion much.
Accuracy...Jones shows adequate zip on his short to intermediate throws, but his long ball does float too much and he needs to get the ball away with a more consistent spiral (ball gets away from him when going deep). He can throw in the seam, but tends to feather the ball more than he should (has completed just 59.9% of his career passes). Jones won�t spray the ball all over the field, but when he tries to fire it at the numbers, he left more than a few passes behind in 2018 (see Virginia Tech, Virginia, Clemson, Wake Forest games). When he holds the ball too long waiting for his targets to break, he struggles. He shows very good touch and accuracy on the fade routes, but sometimes will hang it in the air of deep tosses.
Touch...Jones is a bit inconsistent throwing the deep comeback from the opposite end of the field. He shows better touch and accuracy throwing short and intermediate. He takes a little too much off the ball throwing long (ball floats). He has decent anticipation and timing on routes, but there are occasions where he needs to throw the ball quicker, especially when pressured. On most of his pass thefts, it seemed as if he was not taking a good enough pre-snap look to see coverage and make the adjustment.
Poise...Jones plays with good poise, as he will stand tall in the pocket and step into his throws. He can take a shot and stay composed in the pocket, but he will try to force some throws when trying to escape pressure. He has a presence standing in the pocket and is mechanically sound when not flushed out. He has good touch on short-to-intermediate throws and shows more than enough arm strength going deep (just inconsistent), but his long ball gets him in trouble when he does not properly read zone coverage, resulting in him forcing his throws when going deep (tends to float it up for grabs). He generally throws a nice, easy ball with very good placement standing or stepping up in the pocket, though (troubles happen on the move). When given time, he can get the ball off with a tight spiral and good arc, allowing the receivers to catch in stride rather than have to adjust in their routes.
Pocket Movement/Scrambling Ability...You would like to see Jones slide and avoid rather than try to run over defenders, as that led to injury issues early in the 2018 campaign. He seems to go through a long timing pattern before bailing on the pocket. He is only adequate when throwing the ball rolling out and scrambling, as he lacks great mobility and elusiveness in and out of the pocket. He moves around, but lacks the sudden burst to be effective running the ball. He will step up and buy time, but is not a threat with his feet. He does have decent timed speed, but perhaps due to his tall, lanky frame, he fails to sink his pads and looks awkward when he has to run with the ball.
Jones is more effective looking off and freezing a safety when standing in the pocket than when forced to roll out. He can move well enough to stay alive, but when he holds on to the ball too long, he then forces it into a crowd. If your offense is looking for Jones to scramble or get any yards running with the ball, that could be a problem. He is a productive quarterback in the pocket, but even with his timed speed, he is also a marginal open field runner. He squares his shoulders properly on delivery, but does not have the scrambling skills or avoidance ability to throw on the run, as he does not look natural doing this. He seems to be more productive throwing when running to his right than to the opposite field.
Compares To...Marc Bulger-ex-St. Louis Rams...Some think Jones is the second coming of Ryan Tannehill, but there is more polish in the Blue Devils game. While Jones has the pro size, he will need to add more bulk. He has good command in the huddle, but despite what some others feel, there seems to be too much inconsistency with him throwing long, especially on the move. He tries to force the ball too much between second level defenders and one look at the high amount of passes that have been picked off or deflected, he still needs a lot of coaching and tutoring.
Dave Te Scouting Report on Daniel Jones - ( New Window )
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In comment 15767710 Matt M. said:
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In comment 15767633 joeinpa said:
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In comment 15767618 Matt M. said:
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I have said many times, in my opinion he needs to be other worldly good for a new deal with the Giants. I'm talking top 5, which is highly unlikely. And that includes franchise tag. Decent season = free agent.
Worst case scenario, Taylor is under contract next year for a very small amount.
Top 5! What if he shocks you and is top 10. You re going to Move on from a top 10 performance for whom?
What top 5 quarterback would you replace him with?
This post comes under the “anyone but Jones” category, which might not be the best way to do business
It's not anybdy but Jones. It's an absolute refusal to pay in excess of $20M/year for a mediocre, at best, QB. Same goes for the tag. Even if for 1 year, you need to show [a lot[/b] more for over $30M.
I don't think Jones is terrible. I also do t thi k he is the only problem on this team the last few years. But, regardless of talent around him, make no mistake, he is still a big part. As a #6 overall lick, you are expected to elevate yourself and your teammates. Outside of a couple of games, he simply hasn't been that guy. So, why would I want to invest more time and money in him?
I also think they may have gotten a steal in Taylor at his price for 2 years. I think he is probably the better QB and at the very least one of the better backups in the league.
All that said, I would NOT even entertain a trade for JG. If they aren't happy with Jones, which I don't believe is the case anyway, then start Taylor, who is actually under contract next year for very little. But, do not trade valuable draft picks for another QB with difficulty staying on the field who is better, but not significantly enough better, in my opinion. This is not a team only a QB away from contending, so why trade for a QB when you have 2 for relatively little this year abd 1 for next year?
I agree he will probably never live up to his draft status, that was a mistake that can’t be undone
But if he has a top 10 year, IMO. it d be tough, even risky to move on from him
A team can win a championship with a top 10 quarterback. I don’t think you necessarily move on from a player because he didn’t live up to his draft status.
joe - Personally, I think top 10 will be tough for him. Even if he did, the tag is a crazy amount of money for another show me year. I think this year has to show you he's your guy or not.
Yes, you can win with a top 10 QB. But, that requires a good team around the QB. The Giants will likely still be building next year, not contending.
I agree too 10 will be tough. I m not real confident it turns out well with him. But he s talented, been in a horrible situation and I wanted him back this season.
If he approaches 3,500 + yards, 25 to 30 TD, 10 to 12 turnovers, I d want him back