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Peter King's FMIA has an interesting article

jvm52106 : 8/1/2022 7:06 am
On the Giants including concern about Golladay not getting separation and the signing looking like a disaster.

Also does not paint a great picture of Jones so far in camp either. Big on Robinson's impact to the WR corp.
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SFGFNCGiantsFan : 8/1/2022 7:16 am : link
Find it hard to believe KG will be a Giant after this season.
.  
cosmicj : 8/1/2022 7:19 am : link
“ Secondly, this offense looks way behind the D early. As the Rolling Stones’ “Paint It Black” aptly boomed through speakers in mid-practice, there were two botched shotgun snaps to the quarterback, a dropped swing pass by Barkley, and Jones throwing a pick-six to cornerback Darnay Holmes. Man, was that ugly. And it didn’t get better before the end of practice. The offense truly painted it black Friday.”

Jones/Barkley - it may already be over.
.  
cosmicj : 8/1/2022 7:20 am : link
“ The Giants are waiting to see more from their $18-million-a-year 2021 free agent, Kenny Golladay, who’s not separating from DBs well early in camp. That signing looks like a disaster”
.  
cosmicj : 8/1/2022 7:21 am : link
“ All 90 of these players, from quarterback Daniel Jones and running back Saquon Barkley on down, are on trial with two new bosses. Of course there are a few, like franchise safety Xavier McKinney and twin tackles Andrew Thomas and Evan Neal, who border on cornerstones, but this might be the most fungible roster of any in the league—and it could be the one that changes the most in the next two years.”
RE: .  
section125 : 8/1/2022 7:22 am : link
In comment 15767639 cosmicj said:
Quote:
“ All 90 of these players, from quarterback Daniel Jones and running back Saquon Barkley on down, are on trial with two new bosses. Of course there are a few, like franchise safety Xavier McKinney and twin tackles Andrew Thomas and Evan Neal, who border on cornerstones, but this might be the most fungible roster of any in the league—and it could be the one that changes the most in the next two years.”


No shit. People pay for analysis like this?
RE: .  
christian : 8/1/2022 7:24 am : link
In comment 15767639 cosmicj said:
Quote:
“ All 90 of these players, from quarterback Daniel Jones and running back Saquon Barkley on down, are on trial with two new bosses. Of course there are a few, like franchise safety Xavier McKinney and twin tackles Andrew Thomas and Evan Neal, who border on cornerstones, but this might be the most fungible roster of any in the league—and it could be the one that changes the most in the next two years.”


My guess is a year from now there are less than 5 Gettleman incumbents penciled in as starters.
Reports about the offense are horrible across the board  
cosmicj : 8/1/2022 7:26 am : link
Everyone’s saying wait until mid season to make some evals. The underperformance puts preseason or early season trades of starting skill players on the table. Hence the Garoppolo rumors.

What if Jason Garret wasn’t holding Jones back but  
cosmicj : 8/1/2022 7:26 am : link
Was genuinely elevating his performance with his gameplanning?
RE: .  
section125 : 8/1/2022 7:28 am : link
In comment 15767637 cosmicj said:
Quote:
“ Secondly, this offense looks way behind the D early. As the Rolling Stones’ “Paint It Black” aptly boomed through speakers in mid-practice, there were two botched shotgun snaps to the quarterback, a dropped swing pass by Barkley, and Jones throwing a pick-six to cornerback Darnay Holmes. Man, was that ugly. And it didn’t get better before the end of practice. The offense truly painted it black Friday.”

Jones/Barkley - it may already be over.


Oddly, it is quite normal for the defense to be well ahead of the offense early in camp. Everyone with half a brain knows this.

And then there is:
Barkley dropped a pass - BFD( he has 2 drops in games, maybe 3 in his career?)
Jones threw a INT - BFD (he also had a few beauties for TDS) Yes we know he has airmailed a few too.

Can't get clicks without controversy. I would suggest referring to Sy's report for factual insight.

RE: What if Jason Garret wasn’t holding Jones back but  
Sean : 8/1/2022 7:34 am : link
In comment 15767644 cosmicj said:
Quote:
Was genuinely elevating his performance with his gameplanning?

Looking back, Garrett probably got way too much heat. The offense got worse after he left (granted Glennon/Fromm were starting).

This is a transitional year. Finding the next QB will be a huge part of Saturdays this fall.
I thought Golladays deal  
mattnyg05 : 8/1/2022 7:38 am : link
was that he never gets separation and you have to trust to throw to him in tight windows/he will “win the battle.”

He has never gotten great separation. Doesn’t mean it’s a good signing but that is nothing new.
Info think the truth lies a bit more in the middle  
jvm52106 : 8/1/2022 7:39 am : link
But, there are some real reasons to be concerned.

All this blind love for Barkley continues to surprise me when it comes to the fans. He hasn't been healthy for a full season ever. He has missed significant time by week 5 of every season in the league. He drops catchable passes, cannot block and isn't a physical runner. If we can trade him in season that will be a huge deal as there is very little chance that we sign him to a new deal.

Jones, in many ways has tools that DaBoll had in his QB's in Buffalo but he lacks suddenness, throwing motion prevents fast quick passes off the snap and sometimes just goes into brain fog and looks lost. I had high hopes, still root for it to work but I just don't see it.

Golladay seems like a guy who injuries in the past have sapped him of his quick twitch and big play ability. We shall see but I think this is his last season here.
RE: RE: .  
jvm52106 : 8/1/2022 7:40 am : link
In comment 15767645 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 15767637 cosmicj said:


Quote:


“ Secondly, this offense looks way behind the D early. As the Rolling Stones’ “Paint It Black” aptly boomed through speakers in mid-practice, there were two botched shotgun snaps to the quarterback, a dropped swing pass by Barkley, and Jones throwing a pick-six to cornerback Darnay Holmes. Man, was that ugly. And it didn’t get better before the end of practice. The offense truly painted it black Friday.”

Jones/Barkley - it may already be over.



Oddly, it is quite normal for the defense to be well ahead of the offense early in camp. Everyone with half a brain knows this.

And then there is:
Barkley dropped a pass - BFD( he has 2 drops in games, maybe 3 in his career?)
Jones threw a INT - BFD (he also had a few beauties for TDS) Yes we know he has airmailed a few too.

Can't get clicks without controversy. I would suggest referring to Sy's report for factual insight.


Barkley has dropped more than that..
Kyle Brandt just said Golladay is a player  
jvm52106 : 8/1/2022 7:45 am : link
That needs to step up in 2022 and shared that Golladay last scored a TD week 4 of 2020!
RE: RE: RE: .  
section125 : 8/1/2022 7:50 am : link
In comment 15767652 jvm52106 said:
Quote:
In comment 15767645 section125 said:


Quote:


In comment 15767637 cosmicj said:


Quote:


“ Secondly, this offense looks way behind the D early. As the Rolling Stones’ “Paint It Black” aptly boomed through speakers in mid-practice, there were two botched shotgun snaps to the quarterback, a dropped swing pass by Barkley, and Jones throwing a pick-six to cornerback Darnay Holmes. Man, was that ugly. And it didn’t get better before the end of practice. The offense truly painted it black Friday.”

Jones/Barkley - it may already be over.



Oddly, it is quite normal for the defense to be well ahead of the offense early in camp. Everyone with half a brain knows this.

And then there is:
Barkley dropped a pass - BFD( he has 2 drops in games, maybe 3 in his career?)
Jones threw a INT - BFD (he also had a few beauties for TDS) Yes we know he has airmailed a few too.

Can't get clicks without controversy. I would suggest referring to Sy's report for factual insight.




Barkley has dropped more than that..


It is very, very few and the exact number does not matter. It is camp, without pads on. Players learning routes and assignments. I'd be more concerned that Holmes knocked the ball out of his hands for a fumble then a dropped pass.
But my point remains, third day of camp.

I have no expectations for Jones magically becoming Josh Allen. He is what we have seen. Just hoping the offense is a little more sophisticated than the past two season. It is more complicated and shit is flying around. If by the 3rd week of August things do not improve, it will be obvious and perhaps Taylor becomes the starter.
I have blind love for Barkley when he’s healthy.  
Big Blue '56 : 8/1/2022 7:56 am : link
I believe he’ll thrive this year with Kafka/Daboll planning. An absolute slam dunk, TO ME..Obviously, if he’s seriously hurt yet again, all bets are off. Otherwise, as with DJ, just you watch..😎
Usually not a huge fan of King  
Biteymax22 : 8/1/2022 8:03 am : link
But everything here seems accurate.

We all know that Jones is in a prove it year. We know he has some ability but also know he has some worts, can Daboll fix them? Maybe, but it won't get done 4 practices into training camp.

For Golladay, yes he was held back by a horrid scheme last year but he's also getting the type of money that says "I should play well in any scheme". We need more from him.

The bottom line is that while we have seen some things that we should be optimistic about this offseason, this isn't going to be a 1 year rebuild. His last line about staying patient is true. We have a couple guys who seem like they're making the right decision but they have a long way to go to fix this roster and this franchise.
RE: I have blind love for Barkley when he’s healthy.  
christian : 8/1/2022 8:07 am : link
In comment 15767657 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
I believe he’ll thrive this year with Kafka/Daboll planning. An absolute slam dunk, TO ME..Obviously, if he’s seriously hurt yet again, all bets are off. Otherwise, as with DJ, just you watch..😎


I think the more likely and prohibitive outcome isn’t a serious injury, but another ankle or knee sprain that takes him out for 4 games, and slows him for another few.
RE: RE: I have blind love for Barkley when he’s healthy.  
Big Blue '56 : 8/1/2022 8:10 am : link
In comment 15767661 christian said:
Quote:
In comment 15767657 Big Blue '56 said:


Quote:


I believe he’ll thrive this year with Kafka/Daboll planning. An absolute slam dunk, TO ME..Obviously, if he’s seriously hurt yet again, all bets are off. Otherwise, as with DJ, just you watch..😎



I think the more likely and prohibitive outcome isn’t a serious injury, but another ankle or knee sprain that takes him out for 4 games, and slows him for another few.


Could be, buddy
My “personal/fan” hope  
Big Blue '56 : 8/1/2022 8:17 am : link
is that they use him more as a weapon out of the backfield. I believe he’d be lethal..
King article  
Cheech d : 8/1/2022 8:30 am : link
King makes salient points but there’s nothing that hasn’t been covered over and over.
He’s not the insider he once was.
I haven’t payed attention to him for years because he doesn’t put in the work.
Maybe expectations about this offense  
M.S. : 8/1/2022 8:30 am : link

are way, way out of whack.

RE: Maybe expectations about this offense  
Big Blue '56 : 8/1/2022 8:34 am : link
In comment 15767677 M.S. said:
Quote:

are way, way out of whack.


Pro or con..That’s why some of us wait until the 4th or 5th game of the season to “see” what we really have as Parcells used to opine
Golladay is a contested catch guy, BUT  
Bobby Humphrey's Earpad : 8/1/2022 8:37 am : link
all the data shows he was poor last year in all routes across zone and press. Figuring this is his last year on this particular contract.

Robinson is an important pick because overall last year the Giants struggled against press coverage. This team desperately needs players who can win 1-1 battles like Robinson did on the TD on Saturday.
RE: RE: Maybe expectations about this offense  
joeinpa : 8/1/2022 8:41 am : link
In comment 15767686 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
In comment 15767677 M.S. said:


Quote:



are way, way out of whack.




Pro or con..That’s why some of us wait until the 4th or 5th game of the season to “see” what we really have as Parcells used to opine


If one is in the camp of not believing in the quarterback, I ve been there, it s easy to look towards the future with very little patience for the present

You are probably correct in your assessment, but after the past decade it s going to be difficult to find patience for another poor start
Coaches select starting players based on training camp  
cosmicj : 8/1/2022 8:49 am : link
Performance all the time. To the experts, it’s a good source of evidence.
Golladay  
mittenedman : 8/1/2022 9:01 am : link
pretty much sucks.

He gets zero separation and he doesnt fight for the ball. He was the product of Matt Stafford having some pretty special arm talent. IMO.
Why is it so few only focus on the negative  
Rod in St Cloud : 8/1/2022 9:03 am : link
Did anyone notice the part about Daboll is tinkering right now with Jones and trying to find out what his strengths are? Did anyone notice that Daboll purposely intends in practices to put players in bad positions to purposefully put them in stressful situations? Daboll is not expecting his QB and the offense to come out with amazing stats. The fans want Jones to have a 99 percent completion rate and throw for TDs every time. Does anyone understand these are practices and not game day! Practices are for working on your weaknesses too!

Anyone who has ever had children learning to play an instrument will be able to understand that while they are practicing a piece they don't sound as good as when they are playing a piece they know well. Should you criticize them for not playing well on a new piece? Of course not!
I also think  
mittenedman : 8/1/2022 9:03 am : link
KG is a bad fit in a Daboll / Kafka offense. Think about the kind of WRs Andy Reid uses. Smaller quicker guys. Daboll with Diggs/Beasley. There isnt much use for him in this scheme.
this was never going to be a 1 year rebuild  
mphbullet36 : 8/1/2022 9:04 am : link
DG what a f*cking disaster of epic proportions. It will take multi year to clean up his mess. This team baring the defense absolutely having a dominant year like the one year in 2016 this is not a playoff team or even close to it.

Most likely they will need to draft a QB near the top next year and they might have to do additional roster trimming like KG and Leonard Williams ect...
Regardless of what you think of Golladay  
Ten Ton Hammer : 8/1/2022 9:11 am : link
Saying he's not separating from DBs is about as sharp an observation as a butterknife. He hasn't ever done that and we knew that last year when there was breakdown of his playing style before signing him.

His separation comes in the form of his catch radius because of his height and reach in contested catch plays. This isn't new info.
Practice  
Rod in St Cloud : 8/1/2022 9:13 am : link
Once we get into the preseason and are playing other teams, then looking at what happens with a critical eye makes more sense. Right now, that's not what Daboll is doing. That's why it's called practice.
D’abolizione said that thursday  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 8/1/2022 9:16 am : link
They put the offense is a stressed situation intentionally
RE: Why is it so few only focus on the negative  
Greg from LI : 8/1/2022 9:18 am : link
In comment 15767719 Rod in St Cloud said:
Quote:
Did anyone notice the part about Daboll is tinkering right now with Jones and trying to find out what his strengths are?


Talk about a fruitless search. His strength is "run fast in a straight line"
Has King mentioned his daughter's softball team again yet?  
Optimus-NY : 8/1/2022 9:20 am : link
?
Daboll  
Lines of Scrimmage : 8/1/2022 9:22 am : link
talked about the offense being in tough situations. He said without the pads and contact he was putting the offense in situations where it is more challenging like 3rd and longs.

Let's see how thing progress. I agree about Galloday. Didn't understand that signing and the Giants had a lot of connections to Detroit so they should have known everything. Lot of injuries and from what I saw he was about a 1050 yard receiver if he played the full season. !6 yards/reception. There were/are a lot of issues on O last year but he does not seem like a guy teams have to really focus on imv.

To me the most important thing about this year is developing the OL and TE group. Lets start winning the LOS.
I don't  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 8/1/2022 9:22 am : link
think Golladay is long for this team.

I also think Jones and Barkley both have one foot out the door, unless ownership intervenes.

However, context is important.

This is the same practice Sy went to and it was completely focused on 3rd-and-long situations.

If the offense looked good, we'd be really worried about the defense right now.
I think this article does raise a lot of valid issues  
gidiefor : Mod : 8/1/2022 9:23 am : link
I really do hope that the FO knows what it's doing, and that over the long haul the Giants will become good. I can justify patience with this, but I am going to want to see some very positive scrappy play by this team before I can get excited about it.

I just want the feeling of futility to go away. While this is very untypical of my perspective - the Giants have earned it. So I know, new group is in charge, let's see what happens and hope for the best, I will tell you where I see positives and negatives.

The wide receiver corps may or may not be intact yet. I do see Robinson is a player. I see Toney as possibly being a player. The rest of the corps is very iffy based on past history -- and Toney still has to prove he can stay on the field through a season. Golladay is an enigma part pro bowler and part Limp Along Cassidy. Shepard I have always liked but he is breaking apart. The rest of them are the bottom of the barrel types. So it's hard to have that warm and fuzzy feeling about them.

The Oline there is hope for. I can believe what I'm seeing there. We have a Left Tackle and Evan Neal as a rookie already appears to be better than any Right tackle that's played for the Giants in about ten years now. It's hard to be excited about Feliciano - but if Gates gets back on the field - he's a real center. I like Lemieux a lot and he lots like he will be a good swing Guard/Center coming from the left side. I can live with Glowinski at Guard for now, but he and Feliciano appear to be stop gaps to me. I am in a wait and see mode about the two draftees from NC - Ezeudu and McKethan -- Sy likes them a lot particularly Ezeudu -- if one of them works out the line will be in good shape and probably just needs one more mid round lunch bucket guy to be added for the next couple of years. The rest of them seem to be fodder to me.

Of the TEs I like Bellinger -- Allen may or may not be the goods -- Jones and Akins are Meh -- the rest are fodder so there is not a lot of depth there in my view.

The RBs are a big question mark -- Barkley may be a toy we cannot afford -- If he becomes a real passing weapon I may change my viewpoint - Breida looks good but has a troubling history of fumbles -- Corbin is a spit shot - the rest are meh

I have a hard time believing Jones can be the guy right now -- I just don't see it -- especially with all the ifs above -- a lot of things would have to go right that just don't all seem to be there to me.

The Giants in my mind need to add the following to the Offense - a #1 WR, another solid receiver, a solid TE, a solid RB, possibly two of them, A solid guard prospect, and possibly a center too depending on whether Gates can make it back - and they may (I'm leaning probably) still need a QB.

On Defense I still see issues. No matter how you paint it the Giants need CBs probably at least two more good ones -- the safties may be okay, the DLine may be okay but probably needs a DT and another ER. The LBs are probably one short too.

So show me the current group can make hash with all those issues and I'll have something to root for and believe that down the road maybe this FO has got something -- if more than half of the rookies pan out that would be a good start to being able to believe that FO really knows what they are doing and are one or two drafts, and three or four solid FA signings away.
RE: Has King mentioned his daughter's softball team again yet?  
Greg from LI : 8/1/2022 9:27 am : link
In comment 15767735 Optimus-NY said:
Quote:
?


Or his MacBook, or KitKats, or Shock Top, or Starbucks, or......
Jones, Barkley, Golladay need to Proove Themselves?  
Rafflee : 8/1/2022 9:28 am : link
Is this Pay Walled Info? Sign Me up!!!!!
RE: RE: Maybe expectations about this offense  
chick310 : 8/1/2022 9:30 am : link
In comment 15767686 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
In comment 15767677 M.S. said:


Quote:



are way, way out of whack.




Pro or con..That’s why some of us wait until the 4th or 5th game of the season to “see” what we really have as Parcells used to opine


Unfortunately, what we seem to have at that point is typically a 1-4 team.
The offense being behind the defense  
AnnapolisMike : 8/1/2022 9:36 am : link
is always the case at this point in preseason.

Golladay is likely gone after this season. Barkley is going to have a great season and decide he is willing to give the Giants a team friendly deal to stick.

Jones is going to have to be good to stick around. A bad start to the season and Taylor might well get promoted.
Peter King's comment on Golladay below may not be incorrect  
chick310 : 8/1/2022 9:39 am : link
but he certainly didn't embellish much with this lack of separation issue either. Not sure the local beats are focused much this summer to make/write an observation like this.

Maybe Sy'56 can weigh in on his thoughts while at camp?

Quote:
The Giants are waiting to see more from their $18-million-a-year 2021 free agent, Kenny Golladay, who’s not separating from DBs well early in camp.
I get the negativity from King  
The_Boss : 8/1/2022 9:42 am : link
But when you report on a team on like the 3rd day of camp, unless you are seeing a veteran playoff roster, shouldn't you expect to see struggles/mistakes?


And, please do not view this post as me looking to give Jones an excuse. My posting history on him has not been positive, to say the least.
One question is Daboll and Kafka's expectation of the QB position this  
GiantBlue : 8/1/2022 9:44 am : link
year. Do they expect a game manager until "their" guy is in place or are they expecting the QB to craate and execute plays from an improvised perspective ala Mahomes, Wilson & Allen?

I don't believe Jones has that type of skill set. I believe his skill set is to have the play called in, the patterns locked and the play called with one kill option.

I think the NFL is sliding to the creator/improvised QB.

RE: One question is Daboll and Kafka's expectation of the QB position this  
Angel Eyes : 8/1/2022 9:46 am : link
In comment 15767765 GiantBlue said:
Quote:
year. Do they expect a game manager until "their" guy is in place or are they expecting the QB to craate and execute plays from an improvised perspective ala Mahomes, Wilson & Allen?

I don't believe Jones has that type of skill set. I believe his skill set is to have the play called in, the patterns locked and the play called with one kill option.

I think the NFL is sliding to the creator/improvised QB.

In this case would it be a shift towards the older style where quarterbacks would call their own plays, ala Peyton Manning?
I liked this quote from Schoen -  
Ira : 8/1/2022 10:03 am : link
Quote:
“I have faith we’ll get this turned around, but it’s not going to happen overnight,” said Schoen, 43, who looks like a slimmer version of Steve Garvey, well-coiffed and well-dressed, sitting in the Giants’ cafeteria Friday morning before practice. ”I’ve seen how to build teams the right way three or four times, and we’re going to build depth and talent with a steady plan in place.”
As a famous football mind once said  
Greg from LI : 8/1/2022 10:06 am : link
Rome wasn't built in a day, dahlin
Daboll  
ChrisRick : 8/1/2022 10:08 am : link
talked about not being "instant evaluators" which I agree with. Like it or not, the Giants players (namely Barkley and Jones) are being given another chance. Some of what they have already done (good and bad) is being considered, while, to a point, they have a fresh start with a new system and coaches.

I know some posters do not like to hear the "new system" excuse, but it is very much valid from all that I have picked up over the years, and I think Daboll was eluding to this when he spoke against being "instant evaluators"
RE: RE: Has King mentioned his daughter's softball team again yet?  
Optimus-NY : 8/1/2022 10:09 am : link
In comment 15767742 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 15767735 Optimus-NY said:


Quote:


?



Or his MacBook, or KitKats, or Shock Top, or Starbucks, or......


lol Greg. He loved him his Starbucks! haha!
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