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NFT: What should I do?

Milton : 8/1/2022 10:00 pm
For the past four weeks I've been teaching Summer School Algebra 1 & 2 and Geometry at a vocational High School that is statistically the most violent high school in western Massachusetts. It's a credit recovery class, meaning it's for students who failed it with at least a 40 average and need to pass it over the summer in order to avoid repeating it come September. Normally all the students would be taking the class on software called Edgenuity and I would only be there to take attendance and tutor any students who are struggling with the quizzes and tests, but because the school was short of chromebooks, I've been teaching a dozen students in Algebra 1 at the same time that I'm tutoring another dozen students in Geometry and Algebra 2 who are on Edgenuity (which handles all the instruction, grading).

And by teaching, I mean putting together an Algebra 1 curriculum that can be taught in five weeks to students who aren't good students. I have to put together lesson plans every day along with worksheets for them to practice what I teach to them. I have to put together a final exam for them to take on Wednesday that they can't find on the internet and come Friday I have the responsibility of passing or failing them in the class. Oh, and by the way, I've never taught in front of a class in my life, or put together a lesson plan, or tests. And I damn sure never had to tell a teenager that they just wasted five weeks of their summer because they failed and will have to repeat it.

That's the part I'm struggling with, especially when it comes to the twelve students I'm actually teaching and grading. There are three who come every day, but don't pay attention to the lectures and I have to prod them to do the worksheets. And then they find the answer key to the worksheet on the internet and get every question right, but don't show any work. There are another three who aren't completely clueless, but are always chatting and have to be told repeatedly to be quiet. And by not completely clueless, I mean they can do the basics, but that's about it. I went to the vice principal and the school counselor for advice when it comes to students who are showing up and giving occasional, but not consistent effort. All they would say is that's up to my discretion.

I'm torn. The truth is that none of them are ready for Geometry. But I haven't got the heart to fail them. Not that passing them is doing them any favors.
It's not your fault if you fail them as long as you did the very best  
NYRiese : 8/1/2022 10:13 pm : link
teaching you could.

It's their fault.
Maybe I'm being overly simple but you said it yourself:  
j_rud : 8/1/2022 10:33 pm : link
They're not ready. Everyyhing else you said is really just window dressing. It probably won't be a popular move with admin and it probably isn't gonna be like some feel good movie where they Learn a Valuable Lesson. But you won't be doing them any favors.
I can't believe you even tried to teach them  
JerseyCityJoe : 8/1/2022 10:34 pm : link
Good for you. Back in the day if you showed up in summer school that was a pass. I always thought it was a punishment for being a knucklehead during the class year. I say pass them and enjoyed the rest of your summer.

And no, I never went to summer school. Although is was close some years.:)
RE: I can't believe you even tried to teach them  
Tuckrule : 8/1/2022 10:46 pm : link
In comment 15768737 JerseyCityJoe said:
Quote:
Good for you. Back in the day if you showed up in summer school that was a pass. I always thought it was a punishment for being a knucklehead during the class year. I say pass them and enjoyed the rest of your summer.

And no, I never went to summer school. Although is was close some years.:)


This. I always thought if you showed up to summer school that was good enough. I get the feeling your like mr shoop
Slightly off topic  
Mark from Jersey : 8/1/2022 11:07 pm : link
I can see teaching Geometry at a vocational school. Algebra?
The fact that you care this much means you  
eric2425ny : 8/1/2022 11:11 pm : link
are a great teacher. Honestly, I would pass them and move on. If they care this little about their education there’s not much you can do. You can’t force someone to do the right thing, sometimes they have to learn the hard way.
Showing up  
Chris in San Diego : 8/1/2022 11:26 pm : link
For summer school is worth a C.
I appreciate your caring and passion Milton.
Do what the administrators told you  
Lurts : 8/2/2022 12:05 am : link
Make a judgment based on what you know about the students and the community.

Is it better for the kid to repeat the grade when half the kids who don't pass ninth grade don't graduate/drop out?


Or is it. better for the kid to learn the world doesn't reward half-assed efforts? (Or was Woody Allen right when he said 90% of success is showing up?)

The kid who gets left back and is placed in a class with students who know he/she/xyr is older knows the younger kids are wondering if he/she/et al. was left back because they are "stoopid" or because they didn't give a crap.

Which reason do you think the student will make every effort to convince peers through their actions in the upcoming year? And what effect will that choice have on both the student and new class?

Failure is tough on anybody but especially so when it is public and happens to someone who doesn't have much experience with success.It' s easier to change/ mature when your not the center of attention

If kids show up, aren't unduly disrespectful, make some effort, and grasp some basics, that's worth a D in my book.

But you're in the room. You already know a perfect choice is not available.
Or what Chris in SD  
Lurts : 8/2/2022 12:11 am : link
said.
I’m  
mitch300 : 8/2/2022 12:14 am : link
Confused. You never taught a class in your life and never had a lesson plan. Are you a teacher? Why are you even involved with this.
The fact it's already a vocational high school  
BigBlue in Keys : 8/2/2022 12:43 am : link
doesn't sound like anyone expects them to have strong math skills. Passing them gives them a better chance of staying in school longer where they may pick up ANY useful skills and keeps them off the streets. Repeating the class isn't going to make them learn the skills. Teach them as much real life wisdom as you can and encourage them while you have them. That's a tough spot to be in.

To relate it to the Giants after first reading your post I wondered What Would Tom Coughlin do? I'd honestly love to hear the coaches take.
It’s not like they will use The skills later in their lives is it?  
Giant John : 8/2/2022 6:08 am : link
Perhaps some will pick something up that may be of benefit. Maybe with a HS degree they can use that to do something else later on. If they show up half the time, are disruptive and don’t at least try that’s ab F. But if they are trying but make some efforts that gets a D.
RE: The fact that you care this much means you  
johnnyb : 8/2/2022 6:31 am : link
In comment 15768752 eric2425ny said:
Quote:
are a great teacher. Honestly, I would pass them and move on. If they care this little about their education there’s not much you can do. You can’t force someone to do the right thing, sometimes they have to learn the hard way.


Wrong answer. Grades are not given, they are earned.

I have been an adjunct for almost twenty years. I would give every student an A if they deserved it, but there are students who fail to put in the required effort. Remember, you did not fail the student, they failed themselves, and they need to learn to take personal responsibility for their actions or inactions.
Are you Mr Shoop? the gym teacher  
pjcas18 : 8/2/2022 7:42 am : link
who got stuck in Summer School?

And don't forget, you don't "fail" them, they fail themselves.

As an aside why in the world are these kids taking algebra if they  
Blue21 : 8/2/2022 7:56 am : link
Don't have the capacity or capability or desire to learn it. These kids should be taking basic math of some sort they will use in the real world. This is part of what's wrong with our educational system today.
I am an adjunct at a college  
56n11bestever : 8/2/2022 8:16 am : link
We have the same feelings.
However if I believe I did everything I could for the student then it is up to the, to do the work. If your expectations are clear and they do not deliver then it is on them.

For example I had a student struggling and we agreed to do some extra credit work. He gave me the date it would be done by. He missed the date

2 weeks before semester end he went on and on about he is going to fail lose his scholarship and then have to leave the college.

I went through the grade book and emails with him showing all the missed assignments and that I was not going to do 13 weeks of work in 2 plus majority of the other students did the work on time.

So I ask myself if you have a B student who did it right the first time but does not ask for anything then a person who keeps retrying to get the A is that equitable to me no


I just pray this student learned a lesson and grows from it.

Good luck and as long as administration backs you then do what you think is right. Should they be in geometry if no then you know what to do
RE: As an aside why in the world are these kids taking algebra if they  
section125 : 8/2/2022 8:21 am : link
In comment 15768825 Blue21 said:
Quote:
Don't have the capacity or capability or desire to learn it. These kids should be taking basic math of some sort they will use in the real world. This is part of what's wrong with our educational system today.


Holy crap, Algebra is basic math. It is not calculus or differential equations. Algebra 1 is pretty doggone easy. It is a requirement to graduate HS in every state I would venture.
Books?  
MattinKY : 8/2/2022 8:36 am : link
I vaguely remember using books, pencils and paper when I went to school.
Granted, it was in the 70's - 80's.
Removing books from the equation isn't helping these kids.
With algebra and geometry  
Les in TO : 8/2/2022 8:41 am : link
It’s easier to pass or fail them and justify their marks.either they answered the problem correctly using the proper processes or they didn’t.

It’s different from a history or social sciences class where there is more latitude and subjectivity involved in grading essays.
When someone  
Giants : 8/2/2022 9:00 am : link
doesn't care if they pass or fail that is on them. Life is full of hard lessons. This one is not even hard. When person gives what they have to succeed and still comes up short. My heart goes out to them. In this case there is nothing for you to feel bad about. They made the choice to fail.
RE: When someone  
Les in TO : 8/2/2022 9:38 am : link
In comment 15768886 Giants said:
Quote:
doesn't care if they pass or fail that is on them. Life is full of hard lessons. This one is not even hard. When person gives what they have to succeed and still comes up short. My heart goes out to them. In this case there is nothing for you to feel bad about. They made the choice to fail.
Exactly. If you show up to work on time but you don’t focus on the task at hand or give any effort, but instead you goof around with colleagues, you probably aren’t going to last long before having to find a new job. If the students were listening, asking questions, seeking help, doing their homework and still failing it would be a harder decision.
It is tough being in a world  
Big Al : 8/2/2022 9:59 am : link
where you care but most others don’t. Short term happy solutions which fail in the long term is an an easy and comfortable out.

Milton, you are a far better man than me.
RE: It's not your fault if you fail them as long as you did the very best  
Maryland Blows : 8/2/2022 10:17 am : link
In comment 15768728 NYRiese said:
Quote:
teaching you could.

It's their fault.


Passing someone through who does not deserve to be passed teaches them what? If they do not understand that they have to work towards this they will never work towards it. Fail those who failed themselves, you did not do it, they did.
RE: It’s not like they will use The skills later in their lives is it?  
steve in ky : 8/2/2022 12:04 pm : link
In comment 15768794 Giant John said:
Quote:
Perhaps some will pick something up that may be of benefit. Maybe with a HS degree they can use that to do something else later on. If they show up half the time, are disruptive and don’t at least try that’s ab F. But if they are trying but make some efforts that gets a D.


I'm with you, failing a kid who showed up and completed summer school while at least doing some minimal work should garner at least a pass.

Failing them, and potentially causing them to have to repeat a school year seems a lot more detrimental to their future than giving them a slight pass in a summer algebra class.

In the big scheme of things most will likely never use algebra again in their lives so which greater impacts their lives in a negative way, failing them or giving them a D and letting them get on with their lives?
RE: As an aside why in the world are these kids taking algebra if they  
Milton : 8/2/2022 3:39 pm : link
In comment 15768825 Blue21 said:
Quote:
Don't have the capacity or capability or desire to learn it. These kids should be taking basic math of some sort they will use in the real world. This is part of what's wrong with our educational system today.
+1
RE: RE: As an aside why in the world are these kids taking algebra if they  
Milton : 8/2/2022 3:45 pm : link
In comment 15768849 section125 said:
Quote:
Holy crap, Algebra is basic math. It is not calculus or differential equations. Algebra 1 is pretty doggone easy. It is a requirement to graduate HS in every state I would venture.
For the most part this is true, but there are students who are just plain intimidated by math and others that fell behind in grade school and never caught up. One of the problems teaching high school math is that you inherit a class of students who can be at very different skill levels in math. It's not like English or even Science. You don't need Biology to take on Physics, but if you flunk Algebra, how can you compete in Geometry and Trigonometry? And it kills a kid's confidence and makes them feel stupid.
RE: I’m  
Milton : 8/2/2022 3:57 pm : link
In comment 15768772 mitch300 said:
Quote:
Confused. You never taught a class in your life and never had a lesson plan. Are you a teacher? Why are you even involved with this.
I'm involved because I want to be. The real question is why did they hire a guy who never taught in a classroom before, doesn't have a teaching degree, doesn't have a credential of any kind? And the answer is they had no choice. No real math teachers applied for the job. And now I understand why. The math teachers who had these kids during the school year wanted no part of them in summer school.

And here's the kicker: I may be teaching math during the regular school year too! For realz. And if not math, I may be teaching Physics, because they are down to just one Physics teacher right now and it's a required class to graduate (not only that, it's a common core class, which means they need to take a Massachusetts standardized exam in it). I haven't had a Physics class since I took it in High School in 1977. And it wasn't AP Physics, just regular ole high school physics. I happened to mention to an administrator that I love physics and the next thing I know they're asking me if I'd be interested in teaching it. I'm kind of terrified at the thought of teaching math from September to June, but Physics might be fun.
RE: RE: RE: As an aside why in the world are these kids taking algebra if they  
section125 : 8/2/2022 4:06 pm : link
In comment 15769701 Milton said:
Quote:
In comment 15768849 section125 said:


Quote:


Holy crap, Algebra is basic math. It is not calculus or differential equations. Algebra 1 is pretty doggone easy. It is a requirement to graduate HS in every state I would venture.

For the most part this is true, but there are students who are just plain intimidated by math and others that fell behind in grade school and never caught up. One of the problems teaching high school math is that you inherit a class of students who can be at very different skill levels in math. It's not like English or even Science. You don't need Biology to take on Physics, but if you flunk Algebra, how can you compete in Geometry and Trigonometry? And it kills a kid's confidence and makes them feel stupid.


Well then, what we have is the dilemma - they got the usual - passed on to the next grade without completing the previous one. So it just goes on. Like the proverbial can, they get kicked down the road until they dropout and end up on the street corner dealing drugs or end up at McDonalds flipping burgers.
I am sympathetic(or is it empathetic?). Can they stay in this school long enough to learn a trade?
RE: RE: I’m  
cosmicj : 8/2/2022 4:42 pm : link
In comment 15769752 Milton said:
Quote:
In comment 15768772 mitch300 said:


Quote:


Confused. You never taught a class in your life and never had a lesson plan. Are you a teacher? Why are you even involved with this.

I'm involved because I want to be. The real question is why did they hire a guy who never taught in a classroom before, doesn't have a teaching degree, doesn't have a credential of any kind? And the answer is they had no choice. No real math teachers applied for the job. And now I understand why. The math teachers who had these kids during the school year wanted no part of them in summer school.

And here's the kicker: I may be teaching math during the regular school year too! For realz. And if not math, I may be teaching Physics, because they are down to just one Physics teacher right now and it's a required class to graduate (not only that, it's a common core class, which means they need to take a Massachusetts standardized exam in it). I haven't had a Physics class since I took it in High School in 1977. And it wasn't AP Physics, just regular ole high school physics. I happened to mention to an administrator that I love physics and the next thing I know they're asking me if I'd be interested in teaching it. I'm kind of terrified at the thought of teaching math from September to June, but Physics might be fun.


That’s wild. Real shortages, ey.
I took algebra in summer school  
TJ : 8/2/2022 8:30 pm : link
Mostly because I skipped most of the classes during the regular school year. I understood most of the content but I was a fuckup. The teacher was a gym teacher during the regular school year. He put 3 of the iffy students around me and let them copy my answers.

I'm pretty sure they didn't get any further in math but I think a couple of them did eventually graduate.

So just ask yourself what's more important? That they understand algebra or that they maybe get a diploma?
Some things to think about:  
cpgiants : 8/2/2022 10:01 pm : link
1. Massachusetts and New Jersey are routinely the top two highest rated States regarding public school graduation standards.... Your dropouts are likely better educated than many graduates in many other states.

2. They are there because the state requires them to pass a class that they have absolutely no business being in, and the state does not know how to raise children.

3. You are not going to offset the Integrity quotient of the universe if you provide a way for them to earn a D instead of an F. You are merely keeping the door open to life with a high school diploma for whenever the students finally do grow up, which will happen.

4. You are there because for a million reasons, no one else wanted the job. Those kids are lucky to have you. You should do what you feel is best and be comfortable with the result.
I went to summer school for History my senior year (circa 90's)...  
Kev in Cali : 8/2/2022 10:11 pm : link
It was after lunch and I just conked-out/slept, and didn't care. Lot's of distractions then too. There was a bunch of us in the summer class also, so it wasn't everyone's fav subject or the teacher stunk. Anyways, our Vice Principle taught the class and passed everyone on attendance.

If I were in your shoes I'd give them your best effort with some simple achievable goals, use attendance, and pass them all. Best of luck!

RE: Some things to think about:  
Kev in Cali : 8/2/2022 10:20 pm : link
In comment 15770424 cpgiants said:
Quote:


1. Massachusetts and New Jersey are routinely the top two highest rated States regarding public school graduation standards.... Your dropouts are likely better educated than many graduates in many other states.


3. You are not going to offset the Integrity quotient of the universe if you provide a way for them to earn a D instead of an F. You are merely keeping the door open to life with a high school diploma for whenever the students finally do grow up, which will happen.

4. You are there because for a million reasons, no one else wanted the job. Those kids are lucky to have you. You should do what you feel is best and be comfortable with the result.


I strongly agree with these ^^^^^ They'll figure out their path whether they learn calculus or history, or not.
RE: Slightly off topic  
Scooter185 : 8/2/2022 10:23 pm : link
In comment 15768750 Mark from Jersey said:
Quote:
I can see teaching Geometry at a vocational school. Algebra?


Ohm's Law is pretty important
RE: RE: Slightly off topic  
Kev in Cali : 8/2/2022 10:44 pm : link
In comment 15770435 Scooter185 said:
Quote:
In comment 15768750 Mark from Jersey said:


Quote:


I can see teaching Geometry at a vocational school. Algebra?



Ohm's Law is pretty important


The Pythagorean Theorem, for carpenters wood workers???....or just to solve simple angle equations???

We can help with curriculum in lots of ways here at BBI : )

I was a banker...  
Dan in the Springs : 8/3/2022 12:22 am : link
15 years ago retired from it and became a math teacher. I've learned so much since about so many things. I teach summer school for six weeks every year.

For me the key is to give them a clear pathway to earn the credit and provide all the extra help they need to pass. That means I go in every morning two hours early for free tutoring. I'm not paid for those hours, but it's very rewarding. Must of my students see that they can grow, learn, make meaning of and use mathematics. As a result they try.

It's a fantastic challenge Milton and if you ever want to trade notes on the subject let me know. I'm happy to talk shop with you.
Unfortunately  
BobOnLI : 8/3/2022 2:39 pm : link
Failing students taking summer school class is unlikely to benefit them and could do them harm. No matter how good your intentions and how hard you try, you cannot make up for the deficiencies of our society and our schools. Thanks for trying.
Thanks everyone for your input...  
Milton : 8/6/2022 10:57 am : link
I took it all into consideration and it was helpful. In the end I sided with the argument that it isn't more life lessons that these kids need; and whether it was Algebra 1, Geometry, or Algebra 2, repeating it wasn't gonna mean that this time around they will finally get it. All it would mean is that they will eventually have to double up on math classes, denying them the chance to take a class they might actually enjoy and/or learn something from. The system is all wrong when it comes to math education and it's unfair to to continually punish students for something that was unfair to them to begin with.

Of my 32 students that made it to the end of the program, I failed three (and of the three, one actually gave effort, but failed to show up for the final exam and the remaining two days of summer school that followed, so I had no choice). There were several I passed who didn't deserve it, but didn't see how it would help any to fail them.

In any case, Friday was my last day and I feel like I'm dealing with PTSD from the experience. I hope I'm not asked to teach math come September, because I feel obligated to say yes. Physics I would enjoy (I think), but teaching math at a vocational school with a large percentage of students living below the poverty level is brutal.

p.s.--Dan in the Springs, if you can get students to come in two hours early for tutoring you are working with a whole different group of students than I had. I couldn't even get them to take home the lesson plan handouts I gave them each day. They would leave them on their desks when they left. I would tell the students on Edgenuity that I'll be at the library from 10am-2pm on Saturday to help those that had fallen far behind and nobody showed.
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