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What happens if Tyrod outplays Jones in preseason?

eric2425ny : 8/2/2022 12:09 am
I know we are all so excited to see another Jones thread, lol, myself included. But honestly, reports are that he has struggled so far in camp. He has what the “experts” say are two creative offensive minds in Daboll and Kafka who have worked with arguably the leagues two top QB’s in Allen and Mahomes (I say arguably because Herbert looks like the real deal).

If he goes out and stinks up the joint in preseason they have to roll with Tyrod right? It’s year four, if the light hasn’t gone on yet it’s not happening.

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Jones is toast  
BigBlueJ : 8/2/2022 8:48 am : link
You folks just don't want to except it. Not all his fault, but no QB is going to survive their third head coach, 4th or 5th OC and as many offensive changes then suddenly thrive. He has been on the descension since the Giants moved on from Shurmur, it is staring all of you in the face. Except it.
Get off Pat Leonard's Jock...  
bluewave : 8/2/2022 8:48 am : link
Listen here and they'll tell what was really going on:

Talkin Giants

Explained the whole offense looked like shit. OL bad, receivers running wrong routes, Jones, etc...

RE: Really interesting question  
Big Blue '56 : 8/2/2022 8:59 am : link
In comment 15768857 cosmicj said:
Quote:
We have no past history to base an opinion on. No idea where this goes.

But those saying Jones playing poorly in practice means nothing are delusional. I remember hearing once that at his peak Peyton Manning was completing 90% of his passes in controlled practice. Practice is easier.


I’m delusional. It means nothing. Nothing until the bullets start flying, imv
Start flying in-season, that is.  
Big Blue '56 : 8/2/2022 9:03 am : link
.
RE: if Jones can't outplay Tyrod Taylor  
joeinpa : 8/2/2022 9:10 am : link
In comment 15768779 Producer said:
Quote:
then this has been an epic waste of time and a terrible miscalculation by management. Tyrod Taylor is not good - definitely not a top-20 QB.

People are making light of Jones throwing poorly in these practices. Great QBs make great throws routinely. That's just a fact. Even tight window throws. If Jones can't execute in practice, how will he do it during competitive games. And then how will he do it when the stakes are even bigger, like the playoffs.


Perhaps they are not over reacting to some bad throws because they are paying attention to what Dabol has said In his pressers
...  
BrettNYG10 : 8/2/2022 9:11 am : link
I think Jones starts the season regardless of how much he sucks in pre-season.
RE: I find it astonishing that people who say Jones will always  
Ten Ton Hammer : 8/2/2022 9:15 am : link
In comment 15768784 Bill in UT said:
Quote:
suck because he hasn't become elite after 3 seasons are advocating for Taylor, a guy who hasn't become elite after 11 seasons. I'm not saying anyone is wrong about Jones, but how about a little intellectual consistency


Why is 'elite' the standard here?
I do think the coaching staff will give Jones the nod to start  
Essex : 8/2/2022 9:16 am : link
because he is probably better than Taylor, but I don't think the new coaching system is really that tied to Jones. So, I think if they think Taylor is better than Jones, they will play Taylor. 95-99% chance Jones will not be here next year, so they have nothing tied to Jones other than if they think he is their best option this year.
RE: Taylor is not  
Matt M. : 8/2/2022 9:20 am : link
In comment 15768780 Bill in UT said:
Quote:
the NYG quarterback of the future. If Jones doesn't become that this year, the Giants are getting a new guy for 2023. Whether Taylor ends up playing this year or not is pretty meaningless. He's not taking us to a SB, now or ever.
No, but with his contract, he is more likely to be the bridge to the next QB next year, than Jones.
Jones will play  
GNewGiants : 8/2/2022 9:23 am : link
Until the offense shows it’s totally inept. I think the offense will be better than the last few years so Jones’ leash will be extended despite whatever our record is.

If the offense performs at the levels that of when Glennon and Fromm - then you will see a switch.
RE: please remember the preseason isn't real  
Section331 : 8/2/2022 9:31 am : link
In comment 15768782 SirYesSir said:
Quote:
it's an extended practice, where coaches on both sides are experimenting and trying things, testing guys.

sure they want to play well, but it's a real low percentage of nfl coaches that put any real weight into those games.

Plus, teams are putting starters out there less and less (for most teams) and there's only 3 games.

Jones is the starter and will be all year barring the wheels totally coming off


How "real" the preseason is may be up for debate but what isn't is the fact that MANY personnel decisions are made largely based on preseason play. If Jones struggles in the preseason, it will, and should, be seen as a sign that he isn't the guy. Whether Daboll has the green light to make a switch is the greater question.
Latest Reports have been  
mattlawson : 8/2/2022 9:52 am : link
All 3 QBs struggled yesterday. Defense ahead of offense, water still wet. Sky blue
RE: ...  
Big Blue '56 : 8/2/2022 9:53 am : link
In comment 15768900 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
I think Jones starts the season regardless of how much he sucks in pre-season.


Also, this is a new system (yet again) that DJ needs to acclimate to so he may in fact look shitty as they try out new things, beyond the normal shitty many of you believe is DJ.
RE: I find it astonishing that people who say Jones will always  
NoGainDayne : 8/2/2022 10:00 am : link
In comment 15768784 Bill in UT said:
Quote:
suck because he hasn't become elite after 3 seasons are advocating for Taylor, a guy who hasn't become elite after 11 seasons. I'm not saying anyone is wrong about Jones, but how about a little intellectual consistency


I don't think people are ragging on Jones for not being elite they are ragging on him for being just plain bad. They are saying he needs to be elite to justify the contract that Mara seems itching to give him based on how terrible he's been. Huge difference.

And it's an odd point about Taylor, TT's biggest problem is that his play has dropped off and he's been injured. At his peak he was a pro bowler. So yeah if you are comparing the peaks TT is going to do way better by that assessment which is why it is a strange framework to choose in support of DJ.
RE: RE: I find it astonishing that people who say Jones will always  
Bill in UT : 8/2/2022 10:14 am : link
In comment 15768902 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 15768784 Bill in UT said:


Quote:


suck because he hasn't become elite after 3 seasons are advocating for Taylor, a guy who hasn't become elite after 11 seasons. I'm not saying anyone is wrong about Jones, but how about a little intellectual consistency



Why is 'elite' the standard here?


Elite is just a word that's bandied about here. The word doesn't matter. What matters is the perception of can he take this team to a Super Bowl or not.
...  
christian : 8/2/2022 10:25 am : link
Four new offensive lineman, all new TEs, first time OC, first time head coach, new system.

Does anyone think there are high odds the offense gels early?
Let me make it clear for you  
Aaroninma : 8/2/2022 10:28 am : link
There is ZERO, 0%, absolutely NO CHANCE, that Tyrod Taylor starts the season over a healthy DJ.

Would suggest that Tyrod just outplaying Jones in the preseason  
NYGgolfer : 8/2/2022 10:34 am : link
shouldn't mean Jones is benched.

However, if it is because Jones is stinking up camp and his preseason time, then Daboll shouldn't be forcing a bad decision as a first year Head Coach.
This situation is why intelligent owners keep their traps  
cosmicj : 8/2/2022 10:36 am : link
Shut up about individual players except genetically praise them.
Generically  
cosmicj : 8/2/2022 10:37 am : link
Not genetically LOL
RE: This situation is why intelligent owners keep their traps  
NYGgolfer : 8/2/2022 10:42 am : link
In comment 15769033 cosmicj said:
Quote:
Shut up about individual players except genetically praise them.


Yes, agreed.
If Taylor is better in preseason, he should start  
Heisenberg : 8/2/2022 10:44 am : link
Jones is rightly on his last leg here. I think he will outplay Taylor but if he doesn't he should sit. No one here is married to him being a success anymore.
I think Jones will start  
Jim in Forest Hills : 8/2/2022 10:47 am : link
but will get a quick hook (like 3 games)
Look, I have not exactly been easy on Jones, but the expectations  
Matt M. : 8/2/2022 10:50 am : link
are too extreme. Too many here seem to think he sucks or he's going to be top 10. The reality is he falls somewhere in between. That said, I really think he has to be elite to get a 2nd contract here. But, I do think he will get a shot to start somewhere else if we don't re-sign him and I could see him having some success.

I do think Taylor should be given a chance to compete this year. Long term, he won't be in the plans. But, as a cheap QB who is signed for next year, he has value to the franchise either as a continued backup for Jones or as a bridge to the next attempt at a franchise QB. He should be here next year regardless, while Jones has to earn next year. So, if Taylor is really significantly better this summer, he should start, which would essentially end the Jones era. If Jones is better he should start and then let Schoen, Daboll, and Kafka determine what next year brings for him.
RE: This situation is why intelligent owners keep their traps  
NoGainDayne : 8/2/2022 10:56 am : link
In comment 15769033 cosmicj said:
Quote:
Shut up about individual players except genetically praise them.


Yep many said it at the time but you honestly can't play Taylor if you are Daboll. Even if he does outplay Jones. You show up your owner. Even if Jones looks like hot garbage he is going to start probably at least the first 6 games unless he gets injured.

It's the same mistakes that have been made, hopefully those are on the way out but this Chris Mara title BS has me concerned.

The big issue to me is evaluating other players.

I want to know if a better QB can make Golladay useful so we don't have to eat dead money next year when we have a bunch of cap space.

I want to know what we have in Toney and Robinson.

I'd LOVE to showcase Barkley to trade him.

Honestly it will be hard to get a good read on even what we have in our young T's because Jones has some of the worst pocket awareness I've ever seen.
RE: RE: This situation is why intelligent owners keep their traps  
Matt M. : 8/2/2022 11:00 am : link
In comment 15769082 NoGainDayne said:
Quote:
In comment 15769033 cosmicj said:


Quote:


Shut up about individual players except genetically praise them.



Yep many said it at the time but you honestly can't play Taylor if you are Daboll. Even if he does outplay Jones. You show up your owner. Even if Jones looks like hot garbage he is going to start probably at least the first 6 games unless he gets injured.

It's the same mistakes that have been made, hopefully those are on the way out but this Chris Mara title BS has me concerned.

The big issue to me is evaluating other players.

I want to know if a better QB can make Golladay useful so we don't have to eat dead money next year when we have a bunch of cap space.

I want to know what we have in Toney and Robinson.

I'd LOVE to showcase Barkley to trade him.

Honestly it will be hard to get a good read on even what we have in our young T's because Jones has some of the worst pocket awareness I've ever seen.
It's weird, but his worst throws seem to consistently be to Golladay. I think Golladay doesn't get that same separation as some of these new WRs with more wiggle. But, Jones doesn't seem to know how to put it where Golladay can make the plays.
There’s been no indication of a QB competition......  
Simms11 : 8/2/2022 11:14 am : link
I think it’s Jones job this year regardless of results. If he stinks, then he might put the team in a position to draft a top QB anyway. At this point, I think only way Taylor starts is if Jones gets hurt again.
Golladay  
HomerJones45 : 8/2/2022 11:15 am : link
is 4-6" taller and 20-30 lbs heavier than the db's. He is by definition "separated". The qb needs to get him the ball where Golladay can make a play on it and not wait for "space". WTF do you people think Daboll was talking about in saying he wants Jones to "take more chances"?
What happens?  
Red Dog : 8/2/2022 11:41 am : link
Your head explodes, your knees turn into boysenberry jelly, and the Statue of Liberty goes skinny dipping in New York harbor.
Best player plays Imo  
bigblue1124 : 8/2/2022 2:03 pm : link
I hope it’s DJ otherwise we are forking out another first round draft pick for a QB. I am not sold on either as of yet, and Taylor has had more than enough chances to prove himself. I am happy we have a decent backup now it’s been a while.
Is it me or does Taylor throw sidearm a lot? In watching a lot of his videos not just this camp seems like he does it a lot.
RE: RE: ...  
BrettNYG10 : 8/2/2022 2:41 pm : link
In comment 15768954 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
In comment 15768900 BrettNYG10 said:


Quote:


I think Jones starts the season regardless of how much he sucks in pre-season.



Also, this is a new system (yet again) that DJ needs to acclimate to so he may in fact look shitty as they try out new things, beyond the normal shitty many of you believe is DJ.


I think Jones sucks but I'd rather see him get 4-6 games and bomb than Taylor out there to start the year.

We aren't winning anything this year. Let's be sure Jones isn't the answer rather than have Taylor play so we can maybe win an extra game or two.
The one thing that must happen this season  
steve in ky : 8/2/2022 2:48 pm : link
Is for this staff to determine whether or not Jones is the teams answer at QB. He needs to get the playing time.
First camp in reid offense  
Giants73 : 8/2/2022 2:52 pm : link
You can find these with almost every qb, look at Brady in 2018 and first year with Bucs. Look at Stafford’s last year with Lions.

Training camp is used as a tool. Need to see what you can get away with and sync up with the pass catchers.

Already mentioned there is flexibility in the routes so QB and WR will need to get to know what one another is thinking. Jones’ problems have been fumbling and holding the ball too long. Neither will be noticeable at practice. With no QB contact, and playing through potential sacks.
Pat Mahommes - ( New Window )
My prediction  
Thegratefulhead : 8/2/2022 4:28 pm : link
Is that Tyrod is going to outplay Jones in camp. I believe he is the better and more accomplished player. In 2009 Taylor was #1 NCAA in Y/PA at 9.5 out of the ACC. The resume's speak for themselves.
RE: My prediction  
bw in dc : 8/2/2022 4:38 pm : link
In comment 15769856 Thegratefulhead said:
Quote:
Is that Tyrod is going to outplay Jones in camp. I believe he is the better and more accomplished player. In 2009 Taylor was #1 NCAA in Y/PA at 9.5 out of the ACC. The resume's speak for themselves.


By no means do I want to suggest Taylor may one day end up on the footsteps of Canton, but by every sound metric except completion %, Taylor has been a better NFL QB than Jones.

And when healthy, Taylor is a pretty good runner, too.

So, it would be absolutely no surprise if Taylor outplays Jones in camp.
Tyrod is struggling  
VinegarPeppers : 8/2/2022 4:50 pm : link
Tyrod is struggling against the second team defense. No shot.
RE: RE: My prediction  
Giants73 : 8/2/2022 5:02 pm : link
In comment 15769880 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15769856 Thegratefulhead said:


Quote:


Is that Tyrod is going to outplay Jones in camp. I believe he is the better and more accomplished player. In 2009 Taylor was #1 NCAA in Y/PA at 9.5 out of the ACC. The resume's speak for themselves.



By no means do I want to suggest Taylor may one day end up on the footsteps of Canton, but by every sound metric except completion %, Taylor has been a better NFL QB than Jones.

And when healthy, Taylor is a pretty good runner, too.

So, it would be absolutely no surprise if Taylor outplays Jones in camp.


This is Tyrod’s 6th team in 11 seasons. His resume does speak for itself, he is a career journeyman who at best could be Ryan Fitzpatrick one day. He will not outplay sh!t.

Give it up, Jones will be the starter this year. If he screws the pooch, they will draft someone next year. Thyroid is only heat incase Jones gets injured as usual.
RE: My prediction  
PatersonPlank : 8/2/2022 5:14 pm : link
In comment 15769856 Thegratefulhead said:
Quote:
Is that Tyrod is going to outplay Jones in camp. I believe he is the better and more accomplished player. In 2009 Taylor was #1 NCAA in Y/PA at 9.5 out of the ACC. The resume's speak for themselves.


So 13 years ago Tyrod was pretty good in college? Those are his NFL qualifications?
RE: RE: RE: My prediction  
bw in dc : 8/2/2022 5:27 pm : link
In comment 15769938 Giants73 said:
Quote:
In comment 15769880 bw in dc said:

By no means do I want to suggest Taylor may one day end up on the footsteps of Canton, but by every sound metric except completion %, Taylor has been a better NFL QB than Jones.

And when healthy, Taylor is a pretty good runner, too.

So, it would be absolutely no surprise if Taylor outplays Jones in camp.



This is Tyrod’s 6th team in 11 seasons. His resume does speak for itself, he is a career journeyman who at best could be Ryan Fitzpatrick one day. He will not outplay sh!t.

Give it up, Jones will be the starter this year. If he screws the pooch, they will draft someone next year. Thyroid is only heat incase Jones gets injured as usual.


Taylor has been a journeyman - true. But he's still been a better QB than Jones. Good luck disputing that.

I agree that Jones is the starter. The point that was made was that it shouldn't surprise anyone if Taylor outplayed Jones.
2017 Buffalo season  
Lines of Scrimmage : 8/2/2022 6:26 pm : link
This was a playoff team. Taylor received a Pro Bowl though it may have been one of those alternates. Lets see the data:

Buffalo offense: 302 y/g Pass Yards 176 y/g RY 126/g 30 att/g
18.9 pts/game

Buffalo defense: 355 y/g allowed 230/124 allowed pass/run
22.4 pts allowed

My first thought is how the heck did they make the playoffs and how was he in the Pro Bowl? Then upon closer inspection they had the 30 rushing attempts (good things happen) and plus 9 in turnovers. The HC deserves a lot of credit putting that team in the playoffs.

Taylor 15 games 263/420 62% 2799 yards 6.7 ypa 186 y/g 14 TD/4 int. Rushing: 84 carries 427 yards 5.1/attempt

He threw 35 passes his first four years in the league.

Seems like a pretty pedestrian QB but I look forward to seeing him in the preseason.

Regardless as most reasonable fans acknowledge its time for Jones to step up. Taylor certainly is not the answer and Jones will only have himself to blame if he is outperformed which I don't see happening but best man plays.



If Tyrod outplays Jones in the preseason then we should  
Jimmy Googs : 8/2/2022 6:47 pm : link
thank Joe Schoen for giving Taylor a 2-year deal while keeping Jones at only 1 year...
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 8/2/2022 7:01 pm : link
I can't stand when John starts opining on some specific player/team @ large. John, just write the checks & STFU. Earlier this offseason, he came out & said he expects a much better record this season than last season. Why in God's name would you say something like that aloud to the media? & yes, 4-13 isn't a high bar, but look @ our roster/first year head coach.

John really needs to just keep his thoughts to himself.
RE: ...  
Jimmy Googs : 8/2/2022 7:17 pm : link
In comment 15770145 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
I can't stand when John starts opining on some specific player/team @ large. John, just write the checks & STFU. Earlier this offseason, he came out & said he expects a much better record this season than last season. Why in God's name would you say something like that aloud to the media? & yes, 4-13 isn't a high bar, but look @ our roster/first year head coach.

John really needs to just keep his thoughts to himself.


Chris told him to say it...
RE: Jones is toast  
No1MDGiantsFan : 8/2/2022 7:56 pm : link
In comment 15768874 BigBlueJ said:
Quote:
You folks just don't want to except it. Not all his fault, but no QB is going to survive their third head coach, 4th or 5th OC and as many offensive changes then suddenly thrive. He has been on the descension since the Giants moved on from Shurmur, it is staring all of you in the face. Except it.


Just as long as we don’t have to ACCept it!
I really don't care much about which QB starts  
.McL. : 8/2/2022 7:59 pm : link
As christian pointed out, we have a lot of other moving parts on offense that I want to see make progress.

Neither of these guys is the QB of the future so who cares.
TT starts  
Joe Beckwith : 8/2/2022 8:20 pm : link
and BD explains to JM the Giants may need to use their 23 1st on a QB,
or, they trade for Garrapolo(yuk)..
Jones should win the tiebreaker  
Jerry in_DC : 8/2/2022 8:26 pm : link
due to age and theoretical upside. Jones is bad but its hard to envision Taylor outplaying him by that much.

Taylor is the definition of a mediocre placeholder QB. But he can do 2 things - protect the ball and scramble. In those areas he is better than Jones. Note Jones is faster but he is not good at scrambling.

I can't stand watching Jones play and I can't wait until he's going. But realistically it make sense to give him at least 4-6 games before going to Taylor
RE: Jones should win the tiebreaker  
bw in dc : 8/2/2022 9:28 pm : link
In comment 15770255 Jerry in_DC said:
Quote:


I can't stand watching Jones play and I can't wait until he's going. But realistically it make sense to give him at least 4-6 games before going to Taylor


Ditto. Because the NFL is so QB centric, there is nothing worse than watching a game with bad QB play. It just ruins the experience.

Football is still a team game in the sense you still need both sides of the ball to perform. But the rules have dramatically shifted to where a QB has more opportunities than ever to impact the game. Consequently, the game is mostly a QB game...
 
christian : 8/2/2022 9:42 pm : link
^ Bingo.

I’ve posted this before. I thought the rule changes would make QB less important.

But what happened is defenses don’t prioritize the kill shots anywhere on the field now. It’s a game of applying just enough pressure, and trying to outwit QBs in coverage.

The QBs who make now either need to create time with their legs, or read the openings quickly.
I don't except any excuses for QBs,  
Kev in Cali : 8/2/2022 9:55 pm : link
but will accept the fact that we still have a starting QB in Jones until we play in games that matter.

If he turns to crap, then move Tyrod, after him, we're F'd.

This chatter from camp is just that, let's watch a preseason game...maybe??? Before posting judgment???

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