We all remember that first start in Tampa and other noteworthy games against Detroit/Washington where he was able to throw for four and five TD's.
He has significantly declined after Shurmur.
While I'm not sold on an expensive extension, I'm equally not sold on replacing him unless he takes this team to the playoffs.
Looking at the variables the past two years, coaching, injuries to the O and ultimately himself (2021), Mara was slightly right about one thing, that this organization has done everything to screw him up. What he left out was his decision making regarding Judge/Garrett hiring's.
Nonetheless, here we are and how do we get back to DJ having the confidence that he showed in 2019 to just let it rip.
Do we have enough talent on this O to allow that to happen given some creative play-calling? I believe we do. Two top tackles, though one is a rookie, the reduction of a TE that was more of a liability than anything, a healthy Golladay and the additions of Toney/Robinson.
Yes, reports have been that the D is ahead of the O but given the addition of a proven, competent D coordinator who's agenda is to confuse the O, I'm not terribly startled.
Point is, DJ once had that confidence to play at a better than average pace and to me, that is the most important factor to elevate him back to 2019, minus the fumbles of course.
I believe the new culture and coaching is up to the challenge.
And, as I keep noting, even in 2019 he was mediocre at best in most of his games. Three games represented over half of his 2019 TDs.
Maybe He is injury prone because of the way he has been forced to play and his desire to make as much out of a running play as he can. HIs mindset can be changed.
Give him at least a half season to prove something. If the Giants go to the break with only 2 wins and Jones is playing poorly, or if he is hurt, then make the change.
I'm hoping that Daboll lets him loose. Let's see the guy who was gun-slinging to the tune of 4 or 5 TDs and 300+ yards. In this final year in his deal there's no point in trying to hold him back. Give him every opportunity to let it rip and let the chips fall where they may. He'll either play well enough to stay a starter or he won't. There's no use game planning like he's a backup QB.
Not exactly sure why so many enjoy his failings.....as it will delay any uptick in Giants future.
It's his last chance....and I am willing to give it to him
Not exactly sure why so many enjoy his failings.....as it will delay any uptick in Giants future.
It's his last chance....and I am willing to give it to him
Ditto. Well stated 👍
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He has this year.....to either prove he deserves an extension or the Giants move on....
Not exactly sure why so many enjoy his failings.....as it will delay any uptick in Giants future.
It's his last chance....and I am willing to give it to him
Ditto. Well stated 👍
I third that
Link - ( New Window )
Don’t get the constant crying over it.
I did see the "panic syndrome" in the pocket but a lot of QB's have this with the speed of the game.
Let's see what happens this year. What is interesting is Garrett talked about him "letting it rip". Daboll has already said the exact same phrase. Makes me wonder if the disconnect is somewhere in the decision making and release with the underlying issue confidence. Hopefully this staff finds plays to build that confidence up and the players can execute.
I'm hoping that Daboll lets him loose. Let's see the guy who was gun-slinging to the tune of 4 or 5 TDs and 300+ yards. In this final year in his deal there's no point in trying to hold him back. Give him every opportunity to let it rip and let the chips fall where they may. He'll either play well enough to stay a starter or he won't. There's no use game planning like he's a backup QB.
Again, logic is ignored. I don't know if Jones can be the answer, but this revisionist history is just getting sillier all the time. He only had three good games? He was 58 percent or better on completions in 9 of his 13 games (7 at 63 percent or better, with one at 74 percent) that year. His only bad games were against NE and GB, with 3 INTs in each (out of 12 total). His only problem as a rookie were his fumbles, which he has gotten back to average.
You people that complain about his rookie year are comparing him to vintage Rodgers and Brady. Geez, he was a rookie. Compare his rookie year to other QB's rookie years. Lets compare him to Allen, who had 10 TDs and 12 INTs as a rookie in 12 starts. (Jones had 24 and 12). Allen had THREE games where he completed 58 percent or more. He had 6 of 12 games where he completed 50 percent or less. His percentage for the year was 52.8. Jones was at 61.9%.
Or go look at Eli's first 3 years, with a massively better supporting cast. He didn't hit 60 percent completions til his fourth year as a starter. Jones has been above 60 all three years, with garbage for receivers and no line, especially the last two years. Jones' QB rating has been better in each of his three years than any of Manning's first three as a starter.
But let's look at what Manning did in 2019 with the same cast around him. In his four starts, 6 TDs and 5 INTs and 3 fumbles. Yardage of 306 (on 44 throws), 250, 202 and 283.
Having said that his straight line speed is an incredible weapon and while many make fun of him for tripping on a long run which could have been a TD after he looked back to see a closing defender, I would take that play over and over once a game from my QB and be very happy with it.
The other positive is that he has the highest completion percentage of any of the top ten all time Giants in passing yards and a way lower than average TD to interception ratio among that group. This is despite all of the negatives he had to deal with: coaching, worst O-Line in the league, WR injuries and so on.
Injury prone is just past history, Simms was labeled the same after his first few years as well.
I am still hopeful that DJ puts it together this year and wins himself a second contract with the Giants. I can't see how it wouldn't be the best outcome for the team and fans alike.
Not exactly sure why so many enjoy his failings.....as it will delay any uptick in Giants future.
It's his last chance....and I am willing to give it to him
Nobody "enjoys" his failings, but many prefer to ignore them.
For me they are incredibly painful to endure -- I just want the pain, and helpless feeling, of watching a flailing, pathetic team to go away
and maybe it's just me, but I just can't envision how Jones can be successful right now. I am not gleeful or hoping for this - truly.
Not exactly sure why so many enjoy his failings.....as it will delay any uptick in Giants future.
It's his last chance....and I am willing to give it to him
Jones is the delay in the uptick. Has been since he was drafted.
Had he gone to WAS like many wanted we'd be laughing at them
Having said that his straight line speed is an incredible weapon and while many make fun of him for tripping on a long run which could have been a TD after he looked back to see a closing defender, I would take that play over and over once a game from my QB and be very happy with it.
The other positive is that he has the highest completion percentage of any of the top ten all time Giants in passing yards and a way lower than average TD to interception ratio among that group. This is despite all of the negatives he had to deal with: coaching, worst O-Line in the league, WR injuries and so on.
Injury prone is just past history, Simms was labeled the same after his first few years as well.
I am still hopeful that DJ puts it together this year and wins himself a second contract with the Giants. I can't see how it wouldn't be the best outcome for the team and fans alike.
if his straight line speed was actually an incredible weapon, we would have won a lot more games. Slow the roll on the hyperbole.
Phil Simms had a lot of injuries early in his career, but it's a good thing they didn't use that as a reason to move on from him
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Jones is injury prone so Giants should be looking to move on.
Phil Simms had a lot of injuries early in his career, but it's a good thing they didn't use that as a reason to move on from him
If Jones tore his ACL tomorrow would you resign him?
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In comment 15769131 Spiciest Memelord said:
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Jones is injury prone so Giants should be looking to move on.
Phil Simms had a lot of injuries early in his career, but it's a good thing they didn't use that as a reason to move on from him
If Jones tore his ACL tomorrow would you resign him?
What's the point of that question? He hasn't and isn't likely to so it a moot point.
He did NOT have a wide open TE. It was clearly a designed rush. Even if the TE had been on a route, DJ would not have had the ability to flip it to him given his position and the pursuit.
That said, had the Rudolph even tried to reach, rather than base block, DJ scores.
To me:
1) Jones did (fumbles aside) have a strong rookie year. We are all entitled to our opinions of course, but 24 touchdowns in 12 games as a starter was (I believe) a record setting pace.
2) After year one the Giants lost his two best skill position guys (Barkley/injury, Beckham/trade), they switched coaches (which was not an upgrade), and he lost an offseason of practice to the pandemic. Not a great scenario for any NFL QB and especially a young one.
All that said, at this point the Giants are either letting Jones go, or paying him starting NFL QB money - which I can't imagine is anything less than $25-30 million a season. For a team that isn't going to make the playoffs this year, and is optimistically two-three seasons of solid drafting/FA signing away from being a contender to commit that kind of money to an injury prone QB would seem to be a very poor choice.
Daniel Jones is a below average QB who has an occassional good game. Expect to see that throughout 2022.
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In comment 15769469 steve in ky said:
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In comment 15769131 Spiciest Memelord said:
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Jones is injury prone so Giants should be looking to move on.
Phil Simms had a lot of injuries early in his career, but it's a good thing they didn't use that as a reason to move on from him
If Jones tore his ACL tomorrow would you resign him?
What's the point of that question? He hasn't and isn't likely to so it a moot point.
If you're going to try to make a comparison to Simms, who was allowed to rehab his injury and come back, would you extend that to DJ?
Of course unlike Simms, Jones isn't under contract past this season so he would need to be resigned.
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In comment 15769471 Scooter185 said:
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In comment 15769469 steve in ky said:
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In comment 15769131 Spiciest Memelord said:
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Jones is injury prone so Giants should be looking to move on.
Phil Simms had a lot of injuries early in his career, but it's a good thing they didn't use that as a reason to move on from him
If Jones tore his ACL tomorrow would you resign him?
What's the point of that question? He hasn't and isn't likely to so it a moot point.
If you're going to try to make a comparison to Simms, who was allowed to rehab his injury and come back, would you extend that to DJ?
Of course unlike Simms, Jones isn't under contract past this season so he would need to be resigned.
We're talking in circles here. My point in bringing up Simms was in response to this post:
Spiciest Memelord : 11:16 am : link : reply
Jones is injury prone so Giants should be looking to move on.
He is basing that on the current situation and his views on past injuries, not a hypothetical if Jones is injured again...
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Judge and Garrett tried to make him into a robot and the game plans were incredibly conservative.
I'm hoping that Daboll lets him loose. Let's see the guy who was gun-slinging to the tune of 4 or 5 TDs and 300+ yards. In this final year in his deal there's no point in trying to hold him back. Give him every opportunity to let it rip and let the chips fall where they may. He'll either play well enough to stay a starter or he won't. There's no use game planning like he's a backup QB.
Again, logic is ignored. I don't know if Jones can be the answer, but this revisionist history is just getting sillier all the time. He only had three good games? He was 58 percent or better on completions in 9 of his 13 games (7 at 63 percent or better, with one at 74 percent) that year. His only bad games were against NE and GB, with 3 INTs in each (out of 12 total). His only problem as a rookie were his fumbles, which he has gotten back to average.
You people that complain about his rookie year are comparing him to vintage Rodgers and Brady. Geez, he was a rookie. Compare his rookie year to other QB's rookie years. Lets compare him to Allen, who had 10 TDs and 12 INTs as a rookie in 12 starts. (Jones had 24 and 12). Allen had THREE games where he completed 58 percent or more. He had 6 of 12 games where he completed 50 percent or less. His percentage for the year was 52.8. Jones was at 61.9%.
Or go look at Eli's first 3 years, with a massively better supporting cast. He didn't hit 60 percent completions til his fourth year as a starter. Jones has been above 60 all three years, with garbage for receivers and no line, especially the last two years. Jones' QB rating has been better in each of his three years than any of Manning's first three as a starter.
But let's look at what Manning did in 2019 with the same cast around him. In his four starts, 6 TDs and 5 INTs and 3 fumbles. Yardage of 306 (on 44 throws), 250, 202 and 283.
Overall - excellent post. I think comparing Eli and Jones directly is a little misleading just because the NFL has changed a lot in 15 years. But conceptually I understand what you are saying, and agree that too many people discount what Jones did when he had a good OC (Shurmer) and some good skill position guys.
I still think the Giants have to move on from him after this year, as the team won't be ready to win anything for a few more years (and committing NFL starter money to the QB position severely limits roster flexibility).
They have largely sold out on the run (top priority) and dare NYG to beat them with Jones making decisions/plays. Ultimately, he's going to make more negative plays than positive plays.
I don't think anybody is scared off by his arm or his ability to read the D. Sure, he may get a nice run or two because Jones is athletic, but that's a small sacrifice to make in the grand scheme.
I don't think Jones will be anything more than maybe average if he plays well. But he also hasn't had much to work with either. Bottom 5 OL, bottom 5 skill position players, 2 rounds of terrible coaching so far in his career - what does anyone expect a limited QB to do with that?
They have largely sold out on the run (top priority) and dare NYG to beat them with Jones making decisions/plays. Ultimately, he's going to make more negative plays than positive plays.
I don't think anybody is scared off by his arm or his ability to read the D. Sure, he may get a nice run or two because Jones is athletic, but that's a small sacrifice to make in the grand scheme.
Eh, again I'm still taking the position that Jones is gone after this year.
But in the 'they aren't scared of Jones' category you could just as easily say, they aren't afraid of any of the Giants skill position players after Barkley got hurt and Beckham was traded.
If you want to see innacurate look at Zach Wilson. What a hilarious disaster brewing lol
Garrett and his offensive scheme was abysmal. Shurmur is good but people overrate the guy. Broncos moved on without a sound.
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He has this year.....to either prove he deserves an extension or the Giants move on....
Well Dabol and Schoen seem to be in that category. So there s that
Not exactly sure why so many enjoy his failings.....as it will delay any uptick in Giants future.
It's his last chance....and I am willing to give it to him
Nobody "enjoys" his failings, but many prefer to ignore them.
Garrett and his offensive scheme was abysmal. Shurmur is good but people overrate the guy. Broncos moved on without a sound.
Not like Minnesota missed a beat without Shumur.
Why did this not work? He did not have the OL and back he had in Minnesota. Shurmur was quick to point out SB getting those tough 3 yards. He knew the importance of them setting up the next play. Minnesota also had a top D. Ball control O and upper tier D is a good place to be.
I believe this was the plan they envisioned for Eli and then transitioning to a new QB. Unfortunately horrible execution but the plan was sound how to maximize what was left of Eli and how to best break in a rookie. Philly followed this model (30 att/game) and won a SB with a back up. Dallas did it Dak and had success. Ben, Rivers and Eli all came up this way and even Brady.
Help your QB fake it when he is young and hope he grows to handle more as he develops.
Well see if BD and JS can solve this problem and will be critical if they go with a rookie in 2023.
Account for the poor supporting cast in your assessment for fuck's sake. Use yours brains. If he was some kind of diamond in the rough it would have shown up in a couple of games. I have played the position, when you are on, it feels like you can't miss, you see everything and you feel like you can't be stopped. The proverbial "zone" so to speak.
Daniel is "No Zone Jones" This franchise needs a QB that can put a team on it's back. I have seen enough to know Jones is never going to be that.
They have largely sold out on the run (top priority) and dare NYG to beat them with Jones making decisions/plays. Ultimately, he's going to make more negative plays than positive plays.
I don't think anybody is scared off by his arm or his ability to read the D. Sure, he may get a nice run or two because Jones is athletic, but that's a small sacrifice to make in the grand scheme.
Yessir.
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I believe the DCs have a very good understanding how to defend Jones.
They have largely sold out on the run (top priority) and dare NYG to beat them with Jones making decisions/plays. Ultimately, he's going to make more negative plays than positive plays.
I don't think anybody is scared off by his arm or his ability to read the D. Sure, he may get a nice run or two because Jones is athletic, but that's a small sacrifice to make in the grand scheme.
Yessir.
Opposing Defenses must love to see Jones take off and run. He shows little awareness to slide/avoid blows, often taking on multiple tacklers. And then he gets his bell rung or injured and misses games.
Brave but stupid...
'19 was his best season no doubt, but let's not act like he was Patrick Mahomes or something. He had some dud games too.
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Judge and Garrett tried to make him into a robot and the game plans were incredibly conservative.
I'm hoping that Daboll lets him loose. Let's see the guy who was gun-slinging to the tune of 4 or 5 TDs and 300+ yards. In this final year in his deal there's no point in trying to hold him back. Give him every opportunity to let it rip and let the chips fall where they may. He'll either play well enough to stay a starter or he won't. There's no use game planning like he's a backup QB.
Again, logic is ignored. I don't know if Jones can be the answer, but this revisionist history is just getting sillier all the time. He only had three good games? He was 58 percent or better on completions in 9 of his 13 games (7 at 63 percent or better, with one at 74 percent) that year. His only bad games were against NE and GB, with 3 INTs in each (out of 12 total). His only problem as a rookie were his fumbles, which he has gotten back to average.
You people that complain about his rookie year are comparing him to vintage Rodgers and Brady. Geez, he was a rookie. Compare his rookie year to other QB's rookie years. Lets compare him to Allen, who had 10 TDs and 12 INTs as a rookie in 12 starts. (Jones had 24 and 12). Allen had THREE games where he completed 58 percent or more. He had 6 of 12 games where he completed 50 percent or less. His percentage for the year was 52.8. Jones was at 61.9%.
Or go look at Eli's first 3 years, with a massively better supporting cast. He didn't hit 60 percent completions til his fourth year as a starter. Jones has been above 60 all three years, with garbage for receivers and no line, especially the last two years. Jones' QB rating has been better in each of his three years than any of Manning's first three as a starter.
But let's look at what Manning did in 2019 with the same cast around him. In his four starts, 6 TDs and 5 INTs and 3 fumbles. Yardage of 306 (on 44 throws), 250, 202 and 283.
BINGO!
You don't have Bingo, but thanks for playing...
You don't have Bingo, but thanks for playing...
We have had our differences, but that was funny.
You don't have Bingo, but thanks for playing...
The point of that post was to compare the two performances with virtually the same roster. A conclusive argument? Of course not, just another data point since loads of data and comparisons have been put forth here, thanks for missing the point and ignoring the rest of the post ... Bingo!
Agreed Bill, and he is in company with Chris and Phil Simms. I believe to trust those opinions just slightly (you know just a tad) more than the people that swoop in on every thread that someone has typed out the words Dan or Jones to shit all over the guy and proclaim that they know for a fact that he is and always will be a subpar NFL QB. Just saying. lol
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a starter any longer after the 2016 season. His 2019 performance is not an indicator to use for Jones.
You don't have Bingo, but thanks for playing...
The point of that post was to compare the two performances with virtually the same roster. A conclusive argument? Of course not, just another data point since loads of data and comparisons have been put forth here, thanks for missing the point and ignoring the rest of the post ... Bingo!
If you're going to yell out "BINGO", not alone do it twice, I think you should bring a conclusive argument.
Otherwise, you are just pissing off some of the senior folks in the front row that know how to play this game better...
:-)
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In comment 15770158 Jimmy Googs said:
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a starter any longer after the 2016 season. His 2019 performance is not an indicator to use for Jones.
You don't have Bingo, but thanks for playing...
The point of that post was to compare the two performances with virtually the same roster. A conclusive argument? Of course not, just another data point since loads of data and comparisons have been put forth here, thanks for missing the point and ignoring the rest of the post ... Bingo!
If you're going to yell out "BINGO", not alone do it twice, I think you should bring a conclusive argument.
Otherwise, you are just pissing off some of the senior folks in the front row that know how to play this game better...
:-)
The Bingo was for the entire post, not for the small part that you had an issue with. The second Bingo was clearly sarcastic, so congratulations on once again missing the point.
Ya' know, to make a point...
Eventually he started sucking less often, but he maintained that model his whole career.
Jones is not that at all. Eli was also a legendary college player. Jones never made honorable mention in the ACC.
Eli was a very unusual player. There isn't really a comp for him anywhere. Certainly not a mediocrity like Jones.
You can if you finish with a top-5 pick, which isn't out of the question.
Having said that, group behavior could be chaotic non-linear and dynamical and there is a bum rush for QBs next year...