NYY
Anthony Rizzo (L) 1B
DJ LeMahieu (R) 3B
Matt Carpenter (L) RF
Josh Donaldson (R) DH
Andrew Benintendi (L) LF
Gleyber Torres (R) 2B
Aaron Hicks (S) CF
Isiah Kiner-Falefa (R) SS
Kyle Higashioka (R) C
SEA
Adam Frazier (L) 2B
Jesse Winker (L) LF
Eugenio Suarez (R) 3B
Carlos Santana (S) 1B
J.P. Crawford (L) SS
Kyle Lewis (R) DH
Jarred Kelenic (L) CF
Luis Torrens (R) C
Sam Haggerty (S) RF
Should be a great pitching matchup:
Castillo vs. Cole
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In comment 15771058 Jints in Carolina said:
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In comment 15771044 arcarsenal said:
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One thing I've noticed about Cole is that he seems to get rattled quickly. Once something bad happens, it tends to snowball on him and it happens fast.
It's like he loses his focus, can't move on to the next hitter, and then the mistakes start coming in droves and he gets absolutely crushed.
Even in games where he starts off really well. He'll go 3-4 scoreless, look really good, and then suddenly a bloop falls for a hit or he doesn't get a strike call and a runner gets on and from there, he'll give up a HR, more hits, etc. and it turns into a mess of an inning.
It's like he just has these total meltdown innings where he can't limit the damage. Today, it happened right away in the 1st.
Things that shouldn't happen to a guy they are paying 35 million a year to.
which is why he's not a true ace. he has the talent and stuff, doesn't have the makeup. Sevy has the makeup and the talent but can't stay on the field. Rest of the rotation is good but not great.
Does Sevy have the makeup? Didn't he get annihilated in a playoff game a few years back? May be misremembering.
Yes. Sevy spit the bit in the one game playoff against the Twins. Yanks came back to win it, but I don't really trust Sevy in playoff games either.
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In comment 15771058 Jints in Carolina said:
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In comment 15771044 arcarsenal said:
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One thing I've noticed about Cole is that he seems to get rattled quickly. Once something bad happens, it tends to snowball on him and it happens fast.
It's like he loses his focus, can't move on to the next hitter, and then the mistakes start coming in droves and he gets absolutely crushed.
Even in games where he starts off really well. He'll go 3-4 scoreless, look really good, and then suddenly a bloop falls for a hit or he doesn't get a strike call and a runner gets on and from there, he'll give up a HR, more hits, etc. and it turns into a mess of an inning.
It's like he just has these total meltdown innings where he can't limit the damage. Today, it happened right away in the 1st.
Things that shouldn't happen to a guy they are paying 35 million a year to.
which is why he's not a true ace. he has the talent and stuff, doesn't have the makeup. Sevy has the makeup and the talent but can't stay on the field. Rest of the rotation is good but not great.
Does Sevy have the makeup? Didn't he get annihilated in a playoff game a few years back? May be misremembering.
Sevy is the best starter we have produced since Pettitte. He just can't stay healthy.
Really choked we won't get to see Waldichuk or Medina. Lot of upside with those two. Montas better arrive ready to dog it.
Today Cole gave up a home run each on a fastball, slider, and changeup. It's not about pitch selection, it's execution and command. He's right in the heart of the plate today with his misses. I'd love to see him go out and dominate with that fastball but when he's not locating, that pitch gets hit out as much as any, despite how hard he throws. I would agree that he seems unable to right himself often in the middle of an inning and seems to lose focus.
To that point, seeing him then go out and throw 5 scoreless after he gets a chance to work things out in the dugout doesn't surprise me and also tells me he's close. His stuff remains electric, it's just some small tweaks to find consistency again.
1-3 (W-L)
5.23 (ERA)
1.59 (WHIP)
20 walks in 32.2 IP
Andy Pettitte didn't have a particularly good playoff start until his fifth playoff series, his 1-0 masterpiece in the 1996 WS. His first start in that series, he was bombed for 7 runs in 2.1 IP
Also, yanks just dont hit good pitching. Will take a ton of breaks to win it all this year
Got us back in game at least
Andy Pettitte didn't have a particularly good playoff start until his fifth playoff series, his 1-0 masterpiece in the 1996 WS. His first start in that series, he was bombed for 7 runs in 2.1 IP
Ok, well I'm gonna want Sev to prove it after his blow-ups before I feel comfortable with him in the playoffs. I think that's a pretty defensible opinion.
Bingo.
3 ER's in 6+ innings? not exactly Sandy Koufax.
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in that Minnesota game. Come on.
Andy Pettitte didn't have a particularly good playoff start until his fifth playoff series, his 1-0 masterpiece in the 1996 WS. His first start in that series, he was bombed for 7 runs in 2.1 IP
Ok, well I'm gonna want Sev to prove it after his blow-ups before I feel comfortable with him in the playoffs. I think that's a pretty defensible opinion.
Bigger question now is if he stays healthy enough to actually pitch in a playoff game.
In the inning where he allows the most runs this season, his ERA is over 18. Yes, 18. And then, in all other innings, his ERA is 0.81.
In other words, if you look at all of his starts, there is often a real shit inning in there somewhere surrounded by a ton of scoreless or minimal-damage frames.
For example, against the Royals in the start before this one... he pitched 6 innings and allowed 5 runs. All 5 runs came in one frame. The other 5 innings were scoreless. Again today, 6 runs came in the first frame, and then he went 5 scoreless.
So, this basically corroborates what my perception of him has been. There's a damage-limiting issue with Cole where the dam breaks open and he can't stop it.
The good news is that in the very same games where he's looking like a gigantic bag of garbage, he's often *also* firing off several quality innings.
He's not injured. But the question is, how does this get addressed and how do they stop this from happening?
I can't answer that. But if we're looking for any silver lining, it seems like the Ace version of Cole is still in there; but there's one inning in a lot of his starts that is spoiling it. Matt Blake and Gerrit are going to need to sit down and figure this shit out and soon.
One thing I'll say for Cashman, he has cahones. He must have known that Monty trade would get criticized and that he'll look awful if it blows up in the playoffs.
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Cole never gave us a chance.
Bingo.
Glad I missed it, was at a AAA game today at Polar Park.
Great seats, behind the plate, near the Club seats.
Three HR's in the first inning Cole, yikes!
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Castillo is a fucking stud...boy we could use him.
3 ER's in 6+ innings? not exactly Sandy Koufax.
He 5 hit a good lineup un his first start on road with new team
In the inning where he allows the most runs this season, his ERA is over 18. Yes, 18. And then, in all other innings, his ERA is 0.81.
In other words, if you look at all of his starts, there is often a real shit inning in there somewhere surrounded by a ton of scoreless or minimal-damage frames.
For example, against the Royals in the start before this one... he pitched 6 innings and allowed 5 runs. All 5 runs came in one frame. The other 5 innings were scoreless. Again today, 6 runs came in the first frame, and then he went 5 scoreless.
So, this basically corroborates what my perception of him has been. There's a damage-limiting issue with Cole where the dam breaks open and he can't stop it.
The good news is that in the very same games where he's looking like a gigantic bag of garbage, he's often *also* firing off several quality innings.
He's not injured. But the question is, how does this get addressed and how do they stop this from happening?
I can't answer that. But if we're looking for any silver lining, it seems like the Ace version of Cole is still in there; but there's one inning in a lot of his starts that is spoiling it. Matt Blake and Gerrit are going to need to sit down and figure this shit out and soon.
Interesting stat. Is there an easy way to sort for that somewhere? On the surface averaging two earned runs in your worst inning per start doesn’t sound like a lot to me but maybe it is relatively. Just curious to see how that stacks up.
Pretty simple - 1 guy will help us in the playoffs, the other wouldn’t. If it moves Hicks to the bench and Judge over to RF, that’s massive. We can get another roughly 4 eta pitcher to eat innings, what good is a #4/5 in the ALCS?
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He's not great, but still a pretty good pitcher at #4 or #5. It doesn't hurt that he's a lefty in Yankee Stadium. Why trade him for an injured OF who is a mediocre hitter. He has limited power and his OBA is about average. I get that he is a plus glove and will allow them to shift Judge to RF, but I just don't view him as valuable as Montgomery. I would have wanted a better player.
Pretty simple - 1 guy will help us in the playoffs, the other wouldn’t. If it moves Hicks to the bench and Judge over to RF, that’s massive. We can get another roughly 4 eta pitcher to eat innings, what good is a #4/5 in the ALCS?
Unless you want to start Mr. Porcelain Gerrit Cole on short rest, a #4 starter is good for...one very important start!
That said, I'm warming up to this. It seems like they're 100% confident Sevy will be back.
Game 4 is not an emergency, it is a very predictable game, and considering Cole gets bent out of shape when his precious routine changes, it may be best not to start him on short rest.
If the 3 main pitchers stay healthy and Sevy starts game 4, this works out. If someone gets hurt or we get a dud from Taillon or German in Game 4 and lose a series, that's partially on Cashman. Out of Monty, Taillon, and German, I'd prefer Monty starting a playoff game. But that ship has sailed. I hope this works.
I never knew how much our season hinged on Monty.
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He's not great, but still a pretty good pitcher at #4 or #5. It doesn't hurt that he's a lefty in Yankee Stadium. Why trade him for an injured OF who is a mediocre hitter. He has limited power and his OBA is about average. I get that he is a plus glove and will allow them to shift Judge to RF, but I just don't view him as valuable as Montgomery. I would have wanted a better player.
Pretty simple - 1 guy will help us in the playoffs, the other wouldn’t. If it moves Hicks to the bench and Judge over to RF, that’s massive. We can get another roughly 4 eta pitcher to eat innings, what good is a #4/5 in the ALCS?
I’m going to wait and see how this plays out. Maybe it’s a blunder, but I doubt it. Monty isn’t a playoff caliber pitcher.
I’m going to wait and see how this plays out. Maybe it’s a blunder, but I doubt it. Monty isn’t a playoff caliber pitcher.
I don't think it's sky is falling. I think it's fans watching this team play like shit for the better part of the last few weeks and wonder if this will be another post season disappointment.
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The bad news is that Cole really, really spit the fucking bit today and has a major issue where he has one blowup inning in several starts.
In the inning where he allows the most runs this season, his ERA is over 18. Yes, 18. And then, in all other innings, his ERA is 0.81.
In other words, if you look at all of his starts, there is often a real shit inning in there somewhere surrounded by a ton of scoreless or minimal-damage frames.
For example, against the Royals in the start before this one... he pitched 6 innings and allowed 5 runs. All 5 runs came in one frame. The other 5 innings were scoreless. Again today, 6 runs came in the first frame, and then he went 5 scoreless.
So, this basically corroborates what my perception of him has been. There's a damage-limiting issue with Cole where the dam breaks open and he can't stop it.
The good news is that in the very same games where he's looking like a gigantic bag of garbage, he's often *also* firing off several quality innings.
He's not injured. But the question is, how does this get addressed and how do they stop this from happening?
I can't answer that. But if we're looking for any silver lining, it seems like the Ace version of Cole is still in there; but there's one inning in a lot of his starts that is spoiling it. Matt Blake and Gerrit are going to need to sit down and figure this shit out and soon.
Interesting stat. Is there an easy way to sort for that somewhere? On the surface averaging two earned runs in your worst inning per start doesn’t sound like a lot to me but maybe it is relatively. Just curious to see how that stacks up.
Someone broke it down into a table, I have to see if I can find it again. But just from grabbing some numbers, in his 22 starts, there were 13 different occasions this year where Cole allowed 2 or more runs in one single inning, and in the majority of them, he barely got touched in any other frame he pitched that day/night.
Opening Day - 4 total IP, 3 runs allowed in 1 inning, 0 runs allowed in the other 3
May 23rd - 8 total IP, 4 runs allowed in 1 inning, 1 run allowed in the other 7
July 7 - 6 total IP, 3 runs allowed in 1 inning, 2 runs allowed in the other 5
July 29 - 6 total IP, 5 runs allowed in 1 inning, 0 runs allowed in the other 5
Today - 6 total IP, 6 runs allowed in 1 inning, 0 runs allowed in the other 5
So, you can kind of see there that he's got a handful of singular innings this season where he's been tagged up pretty good, and then outside of that one inning, he typically pitches really well.
It just kind of shows that these aren't starts where he goes out there has absolutely nothing and needs to be yanked. It feels more like a mental lapse, or focus issue. I get the impression when Cole gives up a HR, he's still hanging onto that HR against the following hitter.
He can't pitch like that.
Monty doesn’t help us in the 2022 or 2023 playoffs.
Monty doesn’t help us in the 2022 or 2023 playoffs.
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In comment 15771291 arcarsenal said:
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The bad news is that Cole really, really spit the fucking bit today and has a major issue where he has one blowup inning in several starts.
In the inning where he allows the most runs this season, his ERA is over 18. Yes, 18. And then, in all other innings, his ERA is 0.81.
In other words, if you look at all of his starts, there is often a real shit inning in there somewhere surrounded by a ton of scoreless or minimal-damage frames.
For example, against the Royals in the start before this one... he pitched 6 innings and allowed 5 runs. All 5 runs came in one frame. The other 5 innings were scoreless. Again today, 6 runs came in the first frame, and then he went 5 scoreless.
So, this basically corroborates what my perception of him has been. There's a damage-limiting issue with Cole where the dam breaks open and he can't stop it.
The good news is that in the very same games where he's looking like a gigantic bag of garbage, he's often *also* firing off several quality innings.
He's not injured. But the question is, how does this get addressed and how do they stop this from happening?
I can't answer that. But if we're looking for any silver lining, it seems like the Ace version of Cole is still in there; but there's one inning in a lot of his starts that is spoiling it. Matt Blake and Gerrit are going to need to sit down and figure this shit out and soon.
Interesting stat. Is there an easy way to sort for that somewhere? On the surface averaging two earned runs in your worst inning per start doesn’t sound like a lot to me but maybe it is relatively. Just curious to see how that stacks up.
Someone broke it down into a table, I have to see if I can find it again. But just from grabbing some numbers, in his 22 starts, there were 13 different occasions this year where Cole allowed 2 or more runs in one single inning, and in the majority of them, he barely got touched in any other frame he pitched that day/night.
Opening Day - 4 total IP, 3 runs allowed in 1 inning, 0 runs allowed in the other 3
May 23rd - 8 total IP, 4 runs allowed in 1 inning, 1 run allowed in the other 7
July 7 - 6 total IP, 3 runs allowed in 1 inning, 2 runs allowed in the other 5
July 29 - 6 total IP, 5 runs allowed in 1 inning, 0 runs allowed in the other 5
Today - 6 total IP, 6 runs allowed in 1 inning, 0 runs allowed in the other 5
So, you can kind of see there that he's got a handful of singular innings this season where he's been tagged up pretty good, and then outside of that one inning, he typically pitches really well.
It just kind of shows that these aren't starts where he goes out there has absolutely nothing and needs to be yanked. It feels more like a mental lapse, or focus issue. I get the impression when Cole gives up a HR, he's still hanging onto that HR against the following hitter.
He can't pitch like that.
Gotcha, thanks! No need to dig around for the original table. I was just a little surprised the overall number wasn’t higher given some of the disaster innings he’s had this year.
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In comment 15771402 JoeMoney19 said:
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In comment 15771291 arcarsenal said:
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The bad news is that Cole really, really spit the fucking bit today and has a major issue where he has one blowup inning in several starts.
In the inning where he allows the most runs this season, his ERA is over 18. Yes, 18. And then, in all other innings, his ERA is 0.81.
In other words, if you look at all of his starts, there is often a real shit inning in there somewhere surrounded by a ton of scoreless or minimal-damage frames.
For example, against the Royals in the start before this one... he pitched 6 innings and allowed 5 runs. All 5 runs came in one frame. The other 5 innings were scoreless. Again today, 6 runs came in the first frame, and then he went 5 scoreless.
So, this basically corroborates what my perception of him has been. There's a damage-limiting issue with Cole where the dam breaks open and he can't stop it.
The good news is that in the very same games where he's looking like a gigantic bag of garbage, he's often *also* firing off several quality innings.
He's not injured. But the question is, how does this get addressed and how do they stop this from happening?
I can't answer that. But if we're looking for any silver lining, it seems like the Ace version of Cole is still in there; but there's one inning in a lot of his starts that is spoiling it. Matt Blake and Gerrit are going to need to sit down and figure this shit out and soon.
Interesting stat. Is there an easy way to sort for that somewhere? On the surface averaging two earned runs in your worst inning per start doesn’t sound like a lot to me but maybe it is relatively. Just curious to see how that stacks up.
Someone broke it down into a table, I have to see if I can find it again. But just from grabbing some numbers, in his 22 starts, there were 13 different occasions this year where Cole allowed 2 or more runs in one single inning, and in the majority of them, he barely got touched in any other frame he pitched that day/night.
Opening Day - 4 total IP, 3 runs allowed in 1 inning, 0 runs allowed in the other 3
May 23rd - 8 total IP, 4 runs allowed in 1 inning, 1 run allowed in the other 7
July 7 - 6 total IP, 3 runs allowed in 1 inning, 2 runs allowed in the other 5
July 29 - 6 total IP, 5 runs allowed in 1 inning, 0 runs allowed in the other 5
Today - 6 total IP, 6 runs allowed in 1 inning, 0 runs allowed in the other 5
So, you can kind of see there that he's got a handful of singular innings this season where he's been tagged up pretty good, and then outside of that one inning, he typically pitches really well.
It just kind of shows that these aren't starts where he goes out there has absolutely nothing and needs to be yanked. It feels more like a mental lapse, or focus issue. I get the impression when Cole gives up a HR, he's still hanging onto that HR against the following hitter.
He can't pitch like that.
Gotcha, thanks! No need to dig around for the original table. I was just a little surprised the overall number wasn’t higher given some of the disaster innings he’s had this year.
I also recalled another start against the Twinkies in Minny.
For some reason, it stuck in my head...June 9th.
Cole allows 5 homers, Yankees rally past Twins 10-7.
MINNEAPOLIS -- — Gerrit Cole gave up home runs to his first three batters and a career-high five in 2 1/3 innings but the New York Yankees rallied to beat the Minnesota Twins 10-7 Thursday night...
https://www.espn.com/mlb/recap?gameId=401355093
This has gone back to last year. I haven't checked, but I am positive you can find a handful of similar instances from 2021.
It seems a common refrain is just to pin a lot of this on spider tack and say Cole isn't the same guy without it, but I'm having a hard time understanding how he's mowing through the very same lineups that are crushing him in singular innings if this is just a sticky stuff issue.
He got annihilated in the first inning yesterday, but then he retired 15 of 17 hitters in the same exact lineup on the same exact day *after* he got rocked and fired off five scoreless frames. You can't do that if you just have nothing.
There's no doubt Cole had better control before the ban, I think he probably felt more comfortable pitching with the grip he had then - but he's still getting excellent results in the majority of the innings he pitches. He's just having these blips where it all snowballs on him and I truly believe this is a mental/focus thing more than anything else.
He's still throwing really hard, I don't think he's tired, I don't think he's hurt. I just think he totally loses his composure when things go a bit south and isn't limiting damage.
Link - ( New Window )
In the 14 games with Trevino behind the plate, Cole has an ERA of 2.74 with a BA of .193 and 34.7% K.
In the 8 games with Higgy back there, his ERA is 5.97, with a BA of .272 and 31.8K.
I don’t know how to link to Twitter, but a guy named Kenny Ducey posted this after yesterday’s start.
The Yanks know the above- for all the pearl-clutching from the we lost a game crowd and the howls from the anti-Cashman brigade- and it is a near certainty that Higgy won’t be catching many, if any, playoff games.
yes, Cole had VERY similar splits with Higgy and Sanchez last year. But that’s not unusual- many high end SP have C they prefer and just pitch better to. At this point in the season, we have enough starts to see that Cole and Higgy just are not on the same page and shouldn’t be paired up.
However, since yesterday’s game doesn’t mean much in the larger scheme of things, the Yanks weren’t going to wear out Trevino by having him start a day game after a night game.
Sometimes the game really is that simple- but the agenda-driven posts on here are hilarious in how they try and justify EVERYTHING through Cole.
thanks for sharing that, arc! I’d be really excited to see how he does upon the return trail - he could be a real unexpected boost down the stretch here, though I’m not sure there’s much of a spot unless someone gets hurt.
yes I think he does overthink it.
"don't think, it can only hurt the ballclub." - Crash Davis
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If you guys remember Stephen Ridings... he's finally on his way back. He threw his first official BP today. Not sure what his timetable is, but he definitely flashed for us last year in his 5 appearances.
thanks for sharing that, arc! I’d be really excited to see how he does upon the return trail - he could be a real unexpected boost down the stretch here, though I’m not sure there’s much of a spot unless someone gets hurt.
No problem! And I agree; although it doesn't look like there's going to be a spot for him in the 2022 pen, I am looking forward to seeing how he performs as he works his way back and it's good to know there's another live arm on the way.
He was throwing some easy cheese when we were first introduced to him.
Reportedly, he plans to exercise the option, as he believes his market was negatively impacted by the QO that the Astros put on him last year. Since under the CBA, a player can only get a QO once in his career, Verlander apparently believes that if he opts out, there will be a robust market for his service.
Remember as well that the reports were that the Yanks were the runners up to sign Verlander. With no QO, they might be tempted to simply give him a blank check and get him.
That would resolve a lot of questions about the staff. I wonder if Verlander's agent has been spreading the word about his intentions this off-season and teams are acting accordingly? A staff of Cole, Verlander, Cortes, Montas and Sevy would really be something.
Verlander opt out? - ( New Window )
Big, big miss. But at least we have Gerrit Cole..