NFT: Mariners @ Yankees 8/3 1:05 PM No Judge

he can’t handle big game situations well. It’s an absolute dice roll. And why can’t Cole start game 4 in the playoffs it’s why we gave that doofus $300m, lol. That’s the bigger Cashman blunder, not trading away our 4th/5th guy for an OF a upgrade and reinforcement for our likely long term investment in Judge.

I never knew how much our season hinged on Monty.

In comment 15771410 UConn4523 said:

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In comment 15771398 Matt M. said: Quote: He's not great, but still a pretty good pitcher at #4 or #5. It doesn't hurt that he's a lefty in Yankee Stadium. Why trade him for an injured OF who is a mediocre hitter. He has limited power and his OBA is about average. I get that he is a plus glove and will allow them to shift Judge to RF, but I just don't view him as valuable as Montgomery. I would have wanted a better player. Pretty simple - 1 guy will help us in the playoffs, the other wouldn’t. If it moves Hicks to the bench and Judge over to RF, that’s massive. We can get another roughly 4 eta pitcher to eat innings, what good is a #4/5 in the ALCS?

His barely .300 OBA isn't exactly helping the offense...assuming he's even healthy.

but we upgraded our defense and base running, does that not count? In the playoffs thats often the difference in winning/losing low scoring games.

I’m going to wait and see how this plays out. Maybe it’s a blunder, but I doubt it. Monty isn’t a playoff caliber pitcher.

In comment 15771432 UConn4523 said:

Quote:

but we upgraded our defense and base running, does that not count? In the playoffs thats often the difference in winning/losing low scoring games. I’m going to wait and see how this plays out. Maybe it’s a blunder, but I doubt it. Monty isn’t a playoff caliber pitcher.

UConn - Right now he's in a walking boot for at least another week and isn't likely to be able to play until sometime in September, the earliest. Even when off the IL, there is a good chance, with plantar fasciitis, he'll be playing in pain and some of his speed will be sapped. That certainly impacts his effect on the team when he's brought here for speed and defense.

My word.

In comment 15771440 djm said:

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My word.

djm - Do you not honestly question this team's preparedness for the post season. For weeks, too many have wanted to hang their hat on the "best record" argument. Well, that's not the case any longer and the goal was not win 100 games or make the playoffs. They've done that. What they haven't done in more than a decade is win the WS (or even get to the WS). Does this team seem poised to do it this year?

I don't think it's sky is falling. I think it's fans watching this team play like shit for the better part of the last few weeks and wonder if this will be another post season disappointment.

In comment 15771402 JoeMoney19 said:

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In comment 15771291 arcarsenal said: Quote: The bad news is that Cole really, really spit the fucking bit today and has a major issue where he has one blowup inning in several starts. In the inning where he allows the most runs this season, his ERA is over 18. Yes, 18. And then, in all other innings, his ERA is 0.81. In other words, if you look at all of his starts, there is often a real shit inning in there somewhere surrounded by a ton of scoreless or minimal-damage frames. For example, against the Royals in the start before this one... he pitched 6 innings and allowed 5 runs. All 5 runs came in one frame. The other 5 innings were scoreless. Again today, 6 runs came in the first frame, and then he went 5 scoreless. So, this basically corroborates what my perception of him has been. There's a damage-limiting issue with Cole where the dam breaks open and he can't stop it. The good news is that in the very same games where he's looking like a gigantic bag of garbage, he's often *also* firing off several quality innings. He's not injured. But the question is, how does this get addressed and how do they stop this from happening? I can't answer that. But if we're looking for any silver lining, it seems like the Ace version of Cole is still in there; but there's one inning in a lot of his starts that is spoiling it. Matt Blake and Gerrit are going to need to sit down and figure this shit out and soon. Interesting stat. Is there an easy way to sort for that somewhere? On the surface averaging two earned runs in your worst inning per start doesn’t sound like a lot to me but maybe it is relatively. Just curious to see how that stacks up.

Someone broke it down into a table, I have to see if I can find it again. But just from grabbing some numbers, in his 22 starts, there were 13 different occasions this year where Cole allowed 2 or more runs in one single inning, and in the majority of them, he barely got touched in any other frame he pitched that day/night.

Opening Day - 4 total IP, 3 runs allowed in 1 inning, 0 runs allowed in the other 3
May 23rd - 8 total IP, 4 runs allowed in 1 inning, 1 run allowed in the other 7
July 7 - 6 total IP, 3 runs allowed in 1 inning, 2 runs allowed in the other 5
July 29 - 6 total IP, 5 runs allowed in 1 inning, 0 runs allowed in the other 5
Today - 6 total IP, 6 runs allowed in 1 inning, 0 runs allowed in the other 5

So, you can kind of see there that he's got a handful of singular innings this season where he's been tagged up pretty good, and then outside of that one inning, he typically pitches really well.

It just kind of shows that these aren't starts where he goes out there has absolutely nothing and needs to be yanked. It feels more like a mental lapse, or focus issue. I get the impression when Cole gives up a HR, he's still hanging onto that HR against the following hitter.

He can't pitch like that.

I know. Are you suggesting the Yankees didn’t know that? I don’t think you are. So that means the Yankees must think he will be ready for the playoffs and also are looking forward to what he brings to the table in 2023.

Monty doesn’t help us in the 2022 or 2023 playoffs.

In comment 15771448 UConn4523 said:

Quote:

I know. Are you suggesting the Yankees didn’t know that? I don’t think you are. So that means the Yankees must think he will be ready for the playoffs and also are looking forward to what he brings to the table in 2023. Monty doesn’t help us in the 2022 or 2023 playoffs.

I think that 2nd point might be the key. This move might be more about next year, since Montgomery was vbery unlikely to do anything for them in October.

In comment 15771446 arcarsenal said:

Quote:

In comment 15771402 JoeMoney19 said: Quote: In comment 15771291 arcarsenal said: Quote: The bad news is that Cole really, really spit the fucking bit today and has a major issue where he has one blowup inning in several starts. In the inning where he allows the most runs this season, his ERA is over 18. Yes, 18. And then, in all other innings, his ERA is 0.81. In other words, if you look at all of his starts, there is often a real shit inning in there somewhere surrounded by a ton of scoreless or minimal-damage frames. For example, against the Royals in the start before this one... he pitched 6 innings and allowed 5 runs. All 5 runs came in one frame. The other 5 innings were scoreless. Again today, 6 runs came in the first frame, and then he went 5 scoreless. So, this basically corroborates what my perception of him has been. There's a damage-limiting issue with Cole where the dam breaks open and he can't stop it. The good news is that in the very same games where he's looking like a gigantic bag of garbage, he's often *also* firing off several quality innings. He's not injured. But the question is, how does this get addressed and how do they stop this from happening? I can't answer that. But if we're looking for any silver lining, it seems like the Ace version of Cole is still in there; but there's one inning in a lot of his starts that is spoiling it. Matt Blake and Gerrit are going to need to sit down and figure this shit out and soon. Interesting stat. Is there an easy way to sort for that somewhere? On the surface averaging two earned runs in your worst inning per start doesn’t sound like a lot to me but maybe it is relatively. Just curious to see how that stacks up. Someone broke it down into a table, I have to see if I can find it again. But just from grabbing some numbers, in his 22 starts, there were 13 different occasions this year where Cole allowed 2 or more runs in one single inning, and in the majority of them, he barely got touched in any other frame he pitched that day/night. Opening Day - 4 total IP, 3 runs allowed in 1 inning, 0 runs allowed in the other 3 May 23rd - 8 total IP, 4 runs allowed in 1 inning, 1 run allowed in the other 7 July 7 - 6 total IP, 3 runs allowed in 1 inning, 2 runs allowed in the other 5 July 29 - 6 total IP, 5 runs allowed in 1 inning, 0 runs allowed in the other 5 Today - 6 total IP, 6 runs allowed in 1 inning, 0 runs allowed in the other 5 So, you can kind of see there that he's got a handful of singular innings this season where he's been tagged up pretty good, and then outside of that one inning, he typically pitches really well. It just kind of shows that these aren't starts where he goes out there has absolutely nothing and needs to be yanked. It feels more like a mental lapse, or focus issue. I get the impression when Cole gives up a HR, he's still hanging onto that HR against the following hitter. He can't pitch like that.

Gotcha, thanks! No need to dig around for the original table. I was just a little surprised the overall number wasn’t higher given some of the disaster innings he’s had this year.

In comment 15771458 JoeMoney19 said:

Quote:

In comment 15771446 arcarsenal said: Quote: In comment 15771402 JoeMoney19 said: Quote: In comment 15771291 arcarsenal said: Quote: The bad news is that Cole really, really spit the fucking bit today and has a major issue where he has one blowup inning in several starts. In the inning where he allows the most runs this season, his ERA is over 18. Yes, 18. And then, in all other innings, his ERA is 0.81. In other words, if you look at all of his starts, there is often a real shit inning in there somewhere surrounded by a ton of scoreless or minimal-damage frames. For example, against the Royals in the start before this one... he pitched 6 innings and allowed 5 runs. All 5 runs came in one frame. The other 5 innings were scoreless. Again today, 6 runs came in the first frame, and then he went 5 scoreless. So, this basically corroborates what my perception of him has been. There's a damage-limiting issue with Cole where the dam breaks open and he can't stop it. The good news is that in the very same games where he's looking like a gigantic bag of garbage, he's often *also* firing off several quality innings. He's not injured. But the question is, how does this get addressed and how do they stop this from happening? I can't answer that. But if we're looking for any silver lining, it seems like the Ace version of Cole is still in there; but there's one inning in a lot of his starts that is spoiling it. Matt Blake and Gerrit are going to need to sit down and figure this shit out and soon. Interesting stat. Is there an easy way to sort for that somewhere? On the surface averaging two earned runs in your worst inning per start doesn’t sound like a lot to me but maybe it is relatively. Just curious to see how that stacks up. Someone broke it down into a table, I have to see if I can find it again. But just from grabbing some numbers, in his 22 starts, there were 13 different occasions this year where Cole allowed 2 or more runs in one single inning, and in the majority of them, he barely got touched in any other frame he pitched that day/night. Opening Day - 4 total IP, 3 runs allowed in 1 inning, 0 runs allowed in the other 3 May 23rd - 8 total IP, 4 runs allowed in 1 inning, 1 run allowed in the other 7 July 7 - 6 total IP, 3 runs allowed in 1 inning, 2 runs allowed in the other 5 July 29 - 6 total IP, 5 runs allowed in 1 inning, 0 runs allowed in the other 5 Today - 6 total IP, 6 runs allowed in 1 inning, 0 runs allowed in the other 5 So, you can kind of see there that he's got a handful of singular innings this season where he's been tagged up pretty good, and then outside of that one inning, he typically pitches really well. It just kind of shows that these aren't starts where he goes out there has absolutely nothing and needs to be yanked. It feels more like a mental lapse, or focus issue. I get the impression when Cole gives up a HR, he's still hanging onto that HR against the following hitter. He can't pitch like that. Gotcha, thanks! No need to dig around for the original table. I was just a little surprised the overall number wasn’t higher given some of the disaster innings he’s had this year.

.

I also recalled another start against the Twinkies in Minny.
For some reason, it stuck in my head...June 9th.

Cole allows 5 homers, Yankees rally past Twins 10-7.
MINNEAPOLIS -- — Gerrit Cole gave up home runs to his first three batters and a career-high five in 2 1/3 innings but the New York Yankees rallied to beat the Minnesota Twins 10-7 Thursday night...
https://www.espn.com/mlb/recap?gameId=401355093

Yep, there was a blowup inning in that game too.

This has gone back to last year. I haven't checked, but I am positive you can find a handful of similar instances from 2021.

It seems a common refrain is just to pin a lot of this on spider tack and say Cole isn't the same guy without it, but I'm having a hard time understanding how he's mowing through the very same lineups that are crushing him in singular innings if this is just a sticky stuff issue.

He got annihilated in the first inning yesterday, but then he retired 15 of 17 hitters in the same exact lineup on the same exact day *after* he got rocked and fired off five scoreless frames. You can't do that if you just have nothing.

There's no doubt Cole had better control before the ban, I think he probably felt more comfortable pitching with the grip he had then - but he's still getting excellent results in the majority of the innings he pitches. He's just having these blips where it all snowballs on him and I truly believe this is a mental/focus thing more than anything else.

He's still throwing really hard, I don't think he's tired, I don't think he's hurt. I just think he totally loses his composure when things go a bit south and isn't limiting damage.

If you guys remember Stephen Ridings... he's finally on his way back. He threw his first official BP today. Not sure what his timetable is, but he definitely flashed for us last year in his 5 appearances.

He’s no meathead chucking it up there … but maybe he thinks too much ?
Link - ( New Window )

Heyman said Monty wouldn't have even made the playoff roster. Guess we're higher on him than the club was....

Maybe you need to look at a more simple factor than all the nonsense that’s been posted here.

In the 14 games with Trevino behind the plate, Cole has an ERA of 2.74 with a BA of .193 and 34.7% K.

In the 8 games with Higgy back there, his ERA is 5.97, with a BA of .272 and 31.8K.

I don’t know how to link to Twitter, but a guy named Kenny Ducey posted this after yesterday’s start.

The Yanks know the above- for all the pearl-clutching from the we lost a game crowd and the howls from the anti-Cashman brigade- and it is a near certainty that Higgy won’t be catching many, if any, playoff games.

yes, Cole had VERY similar splits with Higgy and Sanchez last year. But that’s not unusual- many high end SP have C they prefer and just pitch better to. At this point in the season, we have enough starts to see that Cole and Higgy just are not on the same page and shouldn’t be paired up.

However, since yesterday’s game doesn’t mean much in the larger scheme of things, the Yanks weren’t going to wear out Trevino by having him start a day game after a night game.

Sometimes the game really is that simple- but the agenda-driven posts on here are hilarious in how they try and justify EVERYTHING through Cole.

In comment 15771754 arcarsenal said:

Quote:

If you guys remember Stephen Ridings... he's finally on his way back. He threw his first official BP today. Not sure what his timetable is, but he definitely flashed for us last year in his 5 appearances.

thanks for sharing that, arc! I’d be really excited to see how he does upon the return trail - he could be a real unexpected boost down the stretch here, though I’m not sure there’s much of a spot unless someone gets hurt.

In comment 15771985 capone said:

Quote:

He’s no meathead chucking it up there … but maybe he thinks too much ? Link - ( New Window )

yes I think he does overthink it.

"don't think, it can only hurt the ballclub." - Crash Davis

In comment 15772042 wigs in nyc said:

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In comment 15771754 arcarsenal said: Quote: If you guys remember Stephen Ridings... he's finally on his way back. He threw his first official BP today. Not sure what his timetable is, but he definitely flashed for us last year in his 5 appearances. thanks for sharing that, arc! I’d be really excited to see how he does upon the return trail - he could be a real unexpected boost down the stretch here, though I’m not sure there’s much of a spot unless someone gets hurt.

No problem! And I agree; although it doesn't look like there's going to be a spot for him in the 2022 pen, I am looking forward to seeing how he performs as he works his way back and it's good to know there's another live arm on the way.

He was throwing some easy cheese when we were first introduced to him.

And then almost immediately got hurt. Hope he gets back to that form quickly.

When Verlander hit the 130 IP mark this week, he kicked in a clause in his contract that switched the 2023 option he had to a player option.

Reportedly, he plans to exercise the option, as he believes his market was negatively impacted by the QO that the Astros put on him last year. Since under the CBA, a player can only get a QO once in his career, Verlander apparently believes that if he opts out, there will be a robust market for his service.

Remember as well that the reports were that the Yanks were the runners up to sign Verlander. With no QO, they might be tempted to simply give him a blank check and get him.

That would resolve a lot of questions about the staff. I wonder if Verlander's agent has been spreading the word about his intentions this off-season and teams are acting accordingly? A staff of Cole, Verlander, Cortes, Montas and Sevy would really be something.

it should have said that reportedly, Verlander plans to turn down the option. I should also give credit to the page reporting this.


Verlander opt out? - ( New Window )

as one of the biggest mistakes this franchise has made in a very, very long time. It literally decided the fates of the two organizations.

Big, big miss. But at least we have Gerrit Cole..