It's hard not to get too excited about Thibodeaux. I hope Ojulari can get back soon, because he and Thibs can be a "dynamic duo" the likes of which we haven't had around here in a long time. Honestly, it's hard not get excited about the defense overall.
The offense, well, for now it is what it is. I just hope they can play well enough so the defense isn't completely gassed by halftime.
is a better pass blocker right now than Evan Neal.
Not great news regarding Daniel Jones. Regrettably, Sy's observations are exactly the ones we've all been worried about for a couple of years.
The Giants ain't going from worst to Super Bowl in Year One of the Schoen / Daboll regime. A lot of trial-and-error needs to take place, and the two may well decide there's too much error in Daniel Jones' game.
On a happier note, sure sounds like Kayvon Thibodeaux is poised to make the rookie highlight film!
have a great deal of respect for Sy, so it was disappointing to read his take on Jones. I have not been convinced either way on him but think he should be given a chance with new management/coaches and legitimate team talent. Of course hoping he would shine because that's the best outcome for the team. Still hoping.
Would be great if Thibs and Ojulari can get 8-10 sacks each this year
have a great deal of respect for Sy, so it was disappointing to read his take on Jones. I have not been convinced either way on him but think he should be given a chance with new management/coaches and legitimate team talent. Of course hoping he would shine because that's the best outcome for the team. Still hoping.
I'm with you River Mike! Rooting for this young man. But I just can't shake my vision of him in the pocket. He stands tall; he stands strong; but... but... but... there's a noticeable lack of fluidity in his movement. And maybe a lack of recognition as to where he should slip and slide.
High-performing QBs just have a natural instinct about what they should do and where they should go when things go a little off schedule. Been watching a lot of Fran Tarkenton film from the Giants 1967 season. It just takes a few plays to notice how flexible and fluid he is in the pocket. Whether its "vision", "instinct" or something else, I don't quite know. But I'm afraid Daniel Jones just has a void in this aspect of his game.
but I'm not sure how many QB's are going to look comfortable and smooth , 4 weeks into a brand new system.
The key is, do we see steady improvement over the next few weeks. It's a no brainer that he should play in all 3 pre-season games and hopefully most of the game.
Can you separate poor QB play from what you describe as “subpar” receiver play and vice versa? Or are you just asking players to excel at what they can control?
I hope people caught one of the most important comments made by Sy... Aaron Robinson looks pretty good. Also, Feliciano.
Feliciano and Mark Glowinski! Just hoping these guys can calm things down in the interior and allow Daniel Jones a little space to work with! That would be big.
[Holmes] did not have the feel for coverage against Robinson and Kadarius Toney the way Julian Love did. Love made anticipated breaks on the ball a couple of times and was fast enough for man coverage against all of the NYG receivers.
I've been skeptical of Love's speed, even at FS, let alone CB. Hope I've been wrong. But again, the qualifier that hangs over all these DB characterizations: they're going against a sub par group.
There is a scenario where Daboll/Kafka design an offense that generates big chunk plays and breaks open WRs 10-15 yards downfield, making it a bit easier for Daniel Jones to manage the game.
when the defense was getting good and the offense, mainly the QB, was a pile of shit.
It's a process. Teams can't go from worst to first in just one season. And if the Giants make a decision to move on from Daniel Jones after this season... well, that's all part of the process!
Jimmy G to the Giants and here is one HUGE reason on the 9ers side of things.
They will have to trade Jimmy or cut him. If they cut him NOBODY will claim that salary. This he is a free agent and ripe for the Rams to sign. The 9ers may take far less for him and even pay some $$$$ to make sure he doesn't end up with the Rams.
I am not saying we should but, at this point Jones is Jones. He will do enough to tease here and there but never enough for he himself to be the difference on the winning side. Truthfully, outside of his solid performances against Washington over the years, his W/L record would look even more putrid than it does already.
There is a scenario where Daboll/Kafka design an offense that generates big chunk plays and breaks open WRs 10-15 yards downfield, making it a bit easier for Daniel Jones to manage the game.
"this isn't going to work" is simple and yet damning...
This has always been the problem with Jones, re: Golladay. He either doesn't know when and where to throw the ball to him, or he can't do it. That's why KG got angry in the Washington game. In that game Jones was holding the ball too long. Jones is scared to throw the ball into coverage, and by the time he throws it, it's late, and harder for KG to make the play. Jones is often late and inaccurate.
Great news about Thibs. Kid seems ahead of schedule.
Encouraging about Thibs. Discouraging about Jones.
Jones' slow processing in the pocket has been a very consistent problem and it leads to most of the other problems (fumbles, etc.).
And it doesn't seem to be going away.
Oh, and thanks for the great report Sy.
Honestly, the bigger concern is the inaccurate throws. He is who he is in terms of mental quickness on the field (lacks winning instinct) but the missing throws when he does have time is more worrisome because that takes even basic game manager off the table.
There is a scenario where Daboll/Kafka design an offense that generates big chunk plays and breaks open WRs 10-15 yards downfield, making it a bit easier for Daniel Jones to manage the game.
They could. But there are fundamental flaws in Jones' game that either get fixed or he has to go.
Encouraging about Thibs. Discouraging about Jones.
Jones' slow processing in the pocket has been a very consistent problem and it leads to most of the other problems (fumbles, etc.).
And it doesn't seem to be going away.
Oh, and thanks for the great report Sy.
Honestly, the bigger concern is the inaccurate throws. He is who he is in terms of mental quickness on the field (lacks winning instinct) but the missing throws when he does have time is more worrisome because that takes even basic game manager off the table.
Jones has been inaccurate since he entered the league, especially on short ti intermediate throws.
Encouraging about Thibs. Discouraging about Jones.
Jones' slow processing in the pocket has been a very consistent problem and it leads to most of the other problems (fumbles, etc.).
And it doesn't seem to be going away.
Oh, and thanks for the great report Sy.
Honestly, the bigger concern is the inaccurate throws. He is who he is in terms of mental quickness on the field (lacks winning instinct) but the missing throws when he does have time is more worrisome because that takes even basic game manager off the table.
I wonder if the internal clock in his head is messed up because of the awful offensive lines he's been playing behind - going back even to college.
Encouraging about Thibs. Discouraging about Jones.
Jones' slow processing in the pocket has been a very consistent problem and it leads to most of the other problems (fumbles, etc.).
And it doesn't seem to be going away.
Oh, and thanks for the great report Sy.
Maybe one thing Daboll/Kafka can do for Daniel Jones is always have a least one security blanket on pass plays with either Wan'Dale, Kadarius or Saquon hovering over the middle or slanting 10 yards downfield.
Exciting to read about Thibs. Glowinski, Feliciano, Ezeudu, and even Lemieux sound like they could be upgrades over what we trotted out on the iOL last year.
If Jones isn't gonna be the guy lets at least hope he can do enough to allow for proper evals on the line and WRs.
Encouraging about Thibs. Discouraging about Jones.
Jones' slow processing in the pocket has been a very consistent problem and it leads to most of the other problems (fumbles, etc.).
And it doesn't seem to be going away.
Oh, and thanks for the great report Sy.
Honestly, the bigger concern is the inaccurate throws. He is who he is in terms of mental quickness on the field (lacks winning instinct) but the missing throws when he does have time is more worrisome because that takes even basic game manager off the table.
I wonder if the internal clock in his head is messed up because of the awful offensive lines he's been playing behind - going back even to college.
I would agree with that if he were throwing constant dump offs quickly- ie pressure or anticipated pressure causes his clock to be much faster. Holding it forever may be the result of early years always having to wait for a long time for guys to get open but truthfully I just think he is not at all instinctual. The reason he isnt a Rodgers, Mahomes, Allen is he lacks that gut instinct, the quick I am going to make this play mentality and it costs us under pressure and inside the 20. It is why Jones always seems better earlier in games between the 30's but horrible as the game progresses and the field becomes more between the 35 on our side and 45 on theirs. As the field or moment tightens Jones's lack of gut instinct and quick twitch response kills our offense.
What has me concerned are the criticisms of Neal. But learning how to play OT in the NFL is hard and takes time.
I liked the praise of Glowinski - finally, a real NFL player at that position - but notice Sy’s disparaging comment about the WR corps. That was surprising. Kadarious, where art thou?
Thibs coverage skills shouldn’t surprise anyone. It’s a difference maker for him. He’s a true linebacker, not just an edge rusher. He dropped in coverage regularly at OU. He’s a true 3-down, versatile linebacker.
I've said repeatedly that Mara will have to be dragged away from Jones kicking and screaming. I think Schoen and Daboll understood that from the get-go, and knew that they'd have to ride out this year with Jones as their starting QB.
Next year it will be a different story. Barring a miracle, Jones will be gone and they'll be able to draft his successor.
I'm not worried about Neal. He's a rookie. AT struggled as a rookie too.
The ? I'd love to know is how much rope Daboll is going to give Jones. If he continues to struggle & TT looks better-granted against backups-what are we doing? I know the John factor, but if we're in the business of winning games...well, I don't know. I'm talking aloud. It is just concerning to see these reports about a QB going into his 4th season.
I think there’s a good chance Lemieux is replaced by Ezeudu by the end of camp. My prediction right now, barring more injury is Thomas/Ezeudu/Feliciano/Glowinski/Neal and Lemieux the primary backup at all three interior positions.
I think there’s a good chance Lemieux is replaced by Ezeudu by the end of camp. My prediction right now, barring more injury is Thomas/Ezeudu/Feliciano/Glowinski/Neal and Lemieux the primary backup at all three interior positions.
Does seem to be trending that way, doesn't it. That Schoen had scouted Lemieux coming out of OU might mitigate against it because of familiarity, but it's obviously better for the OL and offense as a whole to get positions settled and allow time for chemistry, familiarity, and cohesion to develop.
And the fact that the option wasn't picked up is evidence #1. Right now Jones may still be the better option (of what we have based on size alone). But, if Jones doesn't play better soon I can see Taylor getting the shot at the job.
Overall, I have now completely soured on Jones. He just doesn't have it in him.
Jones needs to play significant minutes in the preseason games
Which is contrary to most teams starting QB’s in preseason.
He needs the reps in this new offense to get ready for the first regular season game.
This is in all likelihood his final season as a Giant.
I'm not worried about Neal. He's a rookie. AT struggled as a rookie too.
The ? I'd love to know is how much rope Daboll is going to give Jones. If he continues to struggle & TT looks better-granted against backups-what are we doing? I know the John factor, but if we're in the business of winning games...well, I don't know. I'm talking aloud. It is just concerning to see these reports about a QB going into his 4th season.
What’s the point really? Letting Tyrod Taylor win an extra couple of games would accomplish what? Unless Jones becomes an absolute disaster of 2020 Mike Glennon proportions, they might as well run him out there every week so they can say when they move on that they gave him every chance to succeed as a coaching staff.
RE: Jones needs to play significant minutes in the preseason games
Which is contrary to most teams starting QB’s in preseason.
He needs the reps in this new offense to get ready for the first regular season game.
This is in all likelihood his final season as a Giant.
I’d argue that the entire offense needs to play more than ones usually would in the preseason.
RE: RE: Jones needs to play significant minutes in the preseason games
Which is contrary to most teams starting QB’s in preseason.
He needs the reps in this new offense to get ready for the first regular season game.
This is in all likelihood his final season as a Giant.
I’d argue that the entire offense needs to play more than ones usually would in the preseason.
Feliciano should be limited immedidately. The drop off there if he has any more issues is too much...
I'm not worried about Neal. He's a rookie. AT struggled as a rookie too.
The ? I'd love to know is how much rope Daboll is going to give Jones. If he continues to struggle & TT looks better-granted against backups-what are we doing? I know the John factor, but if we're in the business of winning games...well, I don't know. I'm talking aloud. It is just concerning to see these reports about a QB going into his 4th season.
What’s the point really? Letting Tyrod Taylor win an extra couple of games would accomplish what? Unless Jones becomes an absolute disaster of 2020 Mike Glennon proportions, they might as well run him out there every week so they can say when they move on that they gave him every chance to succeed as a coaching staff.
Do you mean 2021? Glennon wasn't here in 2020, Colt McCoy was the backup then.
Any significant gain in the passing game would have easily been a sack in a real NFL game... KT would have had 2 sacks on him and Love would have had another... he holds the ball WAY too long... when he throws it quick, he almost threw a pick six to Adoree, Adoree dropped it. He was inaccurate and late to throw all night, which is the same observations I've had thus far through camp.
This has always been the problem with Jones, re: Golladay. He either doesn't know when and where to throw the ball to him, or he can't do it. That's why KG got angry in the Washington game. In that game Jones was holding the ball too long. Jones is scared to throw the ball into coverage, and by the time he throws it, it's late, and harder for KG to make the play. Jones is often late and inaccurate.
Great news about Thibs. Kid seems ahead of schedule.
I still can’t shake the early drive on a MNF last year in Tampa where he had a wide open KG inside the redzone with so much space he could have crawled into the end zone, but he threw a wildly inaccurate pass to his left to a very covered WR.
It's hard not to get too excited about Thibodeaux. I hope Ojulari can get back soon, because he and Thibs can be a "dynamic duo" the likes of which we haven't had around here in a long time. Honestly, it's hard not get excited about the defense overall.
The offense, well, for now it is what it is. I just hope they can play well enough so the defense isn't completely gassed by halftime.
Key point, Klaatu. Ojulari as the #1 is underwhelming. But Ojulari as the guy opposite a great pass rusher is strong. And I think we all may be underrating him a bit due to his assignments within Graham's scheme. He's more explosive than he showed last year.
1) I had Thibs as Edge 3 (same as Sy) stemming from some character things we’ve all heard 3rd hand. To be blunt, I think this is the most wrong I’m going to have been about a guy in a while and I still had him as a top 10 pick. While Walker’s upside is enormous and Hutchinson is “clean”, I’m getting more and more of a feeling Thibs outplays them significantly this year and going forward.
2) With that being said, remember Thomas had offseason surgery, didn’t really participate in OTA’s and likely is further behind the team “rounding into form”. In 3 week I don’t think Thibs looks as good against him.
3) Make or break year for Jones. The odds have been and continue to be slim he makes it, with that being said its early in the preseason and he’s learning another new system. Still not optimistic though
4) I know that we lost Bradberry and Ryan but I’ve felt some were more negative towards or defense than they should be. We added a legit EDGE, have young players developing at that position and upgraded DC. Nothing against Graham, he doesn’t have the resume Wink does
5) It seems every year people forget Leonard Williams is a good player then remember again the second they see him play. He’s overpaid and on a bad contract, but that doesn’t mean he’s not a good player
6) The news on Ezedu and the OL depth by Sy are extremely encouraging. A better OL makes everyone else on O look better
7) It seems as if the Robinson hype needs to be real and KT needs to step up for this offense to be functional
8) Neal seems to be adjusting and we didn’t see a ton of splashes from Rookies, but there seem to be a lot playing big roles. Schoen seems to be making his mark quickly
Ending with thanking Sy as always. The beat is becoming filled with 3rd party Twitter journalists watering things down and sometimes giving conflicting info that makes it hard for fans to know what to believe. Its very nice to have a trained and trusted set of eyes reporting this to us.
I really want him to be “the guy” for the Giants, but it is appearing unlikely as time goes. QB is the most important position, and it is very difficult to hit at that position. It just sounds like we may be in the QB market come draft time. Selecting a quarterback is like rolling dice. I would’ve preferred for Jones to be successful, so the Giants would not have to put more resources at the QB position. I would’ve preferred to invest in cornerback, number one wide receiver. I’m just praying he turns it around.
coming from the University of Maine, I’m really pulling for Andre Miller. I just wanted to know your thoughts on Miller, Sy. I just find a very odd that they changed his position from WR to TE. Brian Daboll and Joe Shoen had seen something in him to do this. Rather small for a tight end, but do they see him as a situational mismatch?
have a great deal of respect for Sy, so it was disappointing to read his take on Jones. I have not been convinced either way on him but think he should be given a chance with new management/coaches and legitimate team talent. Of course hoping he would shine because that's the best outcome for the team. Still hoping.
I'm with you River Mike! Rooting for this young man. But I just can't shake my vision of him in the pocket. He stands tall; he stands strong; but... but... but... there's a noticeable lack of fluidity in his movement. And maybe a lack of recognition as to where he should slip and slide.
High-performing QBs just have a natural instinct about what they should do and where they should go when things go a little off schedule. Been watching a lot of Fran Tarkenton film from the Giants 1967 season. It just takes a few plays to notice how flexible and fluid he is in the pocket. Whether its "vision", "instinct" or something else, I don't quite know. But I'm afraid Daniel Jones just has a void in this aspect of his game.
And I agree with you. He has yet to show adequate pocket awarness. I dnon't know whether this issomething that can be developed with experience or whether you either got it or you ain't. I am old enough to have seen Tarkenton play. He seemed to have 360 degree vision and incredible escapability. I don't think many, and certainly not DJ can achieve that level, but hopefully at least average.
I hope people caught one of the most important comments made by Sy... Aaron Robinson looks pretty good. Also, Feliciano.
That can’t be right. We’ve already come to the conclusion the Giants botched the center position THIS season because Gettleman fucked up the entire line LAST YEAR.
Wink is making it tough….even in practice. Defense dominating - ( New Window )
From the article:
Quote:
The Giants faced a third-and-eight on the first series. Jones took the shotgun snap, gave a quick glance left, then came back right. Cornerback Darnay Holmes was there — an untouched blitzer. Jones is on the ground if wearing any color other than red. Instead, Holmes dodged his quarterback, the play continued, and Jones connected with rookie Wan’Dale Robinson for a 28-yard gain.
This "should have been" sack was entirely on Evan Neal, not Jones.
Neal gave up his blocking lane to make an unnecessary double team, leaving the lane wide open for Holmes.
Two things will determine whether Neal pans out: his feet and his awareness.
Encouraging about Tibs to look that good this early. Could he be the steal of the draft?
Some concern with Neal but he is still a rookie.
Not liking what I am hearing about Jones. To think we used to call this guy "Dimes"...the inaccuracy is not what you want to hear. After reading what you put together I just think how long it will be before Taylor is the new starter. I am not a Jones hater but the kid has been given more than enough rope. We will see as the camp and preseason games progress.
I'm not worried about Neal. He's a rookie. AT struggled as a rookie too.
The ? I'd love to know is how much rope Daboll is going to give Jones. If he continues to struggle & TT looks better-granted against backups-what are we doing? I know the John factor, but if we're in the business of winning games...well, I don't know. I'm talking aloud. It is just concerning to see these reports about a QB going into his 4th season.
What’s the point really? Letting Tyrod Taylor win an extra couple of games would accomplish what? Unless Jones becomes an absolute disaster of 2020 Mike Glennon proportions, they might as well run him out there every week so they can say when they move on that they gave him every chance to succeed as a coaching staff.
Here is an answer, Tyrod is under contract for two years. If he takes over he is the incumbent next year to lead a rookie forward before being supplanted. Jones is pretty much assured of not being here next year.
Wink is making it tough….even in practice. Defense dominating - ( New Window )
From the article:
Quote:
The Giants faced a third-and-eight on the first series. Jones took the shotgun snap, gave a quick glance left, then came back right. Cornerback Darnay Holmes was there — an untouched blitzer. Jones is on the ground if wearing any color other than red. Instead, Holmes dodged his quarterback, the play continued, and Jones connected with rookie Wan’Dale Robinson for a 28-yard gain.
This "should have been" sack was entirely on Evan Neal, not Jones.
Neal gave up his blocking lane to make an unnecessary double team, leaving the lane wide open for Holmes.
Two things will determine whether Neal pans out: his feet and his awareness.
In this case, it was the latter that was lacking. nyg twitter - ( New Window )
Willioams and Martinez ran a stunt and he picked up Martinez....nobody was double teamed....he could have picked up Holmes, but then Martinez runs free....shouldnt jones recognize that there is going to be a free rusher before the snap and hit a hot read? im not an expert by any means, but thats what the replay shows.
As Eric notes, it seems that Jones still has the same problems he's always had, namely that he doesn't process quickly enough and is too inaccurate. As I have said, I think this is the last year for Jones. But I don't see the Giants trading for Jimmy G. If Jones falters, they'll just go with Taylor.
It's also not encouraging that Slayton is now third string. Given that he doesn't play ST and the Giants could save $2.5M by trading or cutting him, I do wonder if he'll be on the roster on opening day.
Golladay not being able to separate except on slants is discouraging but not surprising. His is a terrible contract that the Giants may well rid themselves of next year.
Wink is making it tough….even in practice. Defense dominating - ( New Window )
From the article:
Quote:
The Giants faced a third-and-eight on the first series. Jones took the shotgun snap, gave a quick glance left, then came back right. Cornerback Darnay Holmes was there — an untouched blitzer. Jones is on the ground if wearing any color other than red. Instead, Holmes dodged his quarterback, the play continued, and Jones connected with rookie Wan’Dale Robinson for a 28-yard gain.
This "should have been" sack was entirely on Evan Neal, not Jones.
Neal gave up his blocking lane to make an unnecessary double team, leaving the lane wide open for Holmes.
Two things will determine whether Neal pans out: his feet and his awareness.
In this case, it was the latter that was lacking. nyg twitter - ( New Window )
What are you talking about? Neal picked up the blitzing MLB perfectly. There was no double team, the OG took Williams.
I'm not worried about Neal. He's a rookie. AT struggled as a rookie too.
The ? I'd love to know is how much rope Daboll is going to give Jones. If he continues to struggle & TT looks better-granted against backups-what are we doing? I know the John factor, but if we're in the business of winning games...well, I don't know. I'm talking aloud. It is just concerning to see these reports about a QB going into his 4th season.
What’s the point really? Letting Tyrod Taylor win an extra couple of games would accomplish what? Unless Jones becomes an absolute disaster of 2020 Mike Glennon proportions, they might as well run him out there every week so they can say when they move on that they gave him every chance to succeed as a coaching staff.
Here is an answer, Tyrod is under contract for two years. If he takes over he is the incumbent next year to lead a rookie forward before being supplanted. Jones is pretty much assured of not being here next year.
If Jones is drowning out there after a few games part of his analysis in my opinion is how the team responds if Taylor comes in. I 've held off criticism of Jones and figure this is the year to tell for sure. But if he starts sinking I don't want to watch a whole year of what we ve been experiencing the past 5.
Better coach on D
Better talent in D and they should be able to pressure the QB for a change
Better coaching and scheme on O
Better talent/better OL
Running game should be improved
Jones is still Jones
We have a very competent back QB for a change who may see substantial time this year.
Not perfect, but so much better than this time last year.
We don't know what Jones is being asked out there, let it play out. He has two good practices and there are crickets on here, now a poor practice and the same old posters are all over him. Where were you this past week when he went 16-20 and 9-10?
I don't know if he will cut it or not, but making hard judgements based on an August practice in a new offense makes little sense.
basically the first team Offense and Defense out there?
Does it mean something when posters say Jones was "lights out" two days in row earlier this week, or when another player like Thibodeaux or Dex looks good?
It's Year 4 and just a couple weeks from the start of the season...when should it mean something for this QB?
[Holmes] did not have the feel for coverage against Robinson and Kadarius Toney the way Julian Love did. Love made anticipated breaks on the ball a couple of times and was fast enough for man coverage against all of the NYG receivers.
I've been skeptical of Love's speed, even at FS, let alone CB. Hope I've been wrong. But again, the qualifier that hangs over all these DB characterizations: they're going against a sub par group.
Sy has been telling us for years Love is too easily overlooked and he is better than you think. No not overly fast, but just where he should be all the time.
We don't know what Jones is being asked out there, let it play out. He has two good practices and there are crickets on here, now a poor practice and the same old posters are all over him. Where were you this past week when he went 16-20 and 9-10?
I don't know if he will cut it or not, but making hard judgements based on an August practice in a new offense makes little sense.
+1…. It’s overreaction Saturday Batman!!! Jones is playing against a defense that’s bringing pressure from everywhere and anywhere. So he will have practices like this. He’s going through a process here folks. He will not many, if any, defenses who’s as exotic at disguising pressures as ours. If Jones is doing this in the preseason or real games that’s one thing, but rough practices? He’ll get better as he goes along and getting more familiar with the system and players.
have a great deal of respect for Sy, so it was disappointing to read his take on Jones. I have not been convinced either way on him but think he should be given a chance with new management/coaches and legitimate team talent. Of course hoping he would shine because that's the best outcome for the team. Still hoping.
A potential positive might be Taylor, who may offer an improvement over Jones.
your reports are always the highlight of the week.
I thought the WRs would be better than we have had in a while with Toney healthy, Wan'Dale and a fully functional Golladay. Gosh, how bad Gettleman was at evaluating talent with that Golladay deal....
DJ might be having more trouble processing bc 1) brand new offense so thinking more than reacting, and 2) going against winks defenses can be confusing
If TT is the better option/gives us a better chance to win, then he should start. It is as simple as that to me. & perhaps PatersonPlank-who I respect as a poster-is right & a bunch of us are overreacting to last night/haven't even had a preseason game yet. But this just might be who DJ is as a QB. And if TT is the better option, then that tells me all I need to know about Jones' viability long term.
Wink is making it tough….even in practice. Defense dominating - ( New Window )
Fwiw Hughes is a big Jets fan and homer. I couldn't believe some of the stuff he'd written slobbering over Darnold a couple of years ago. I'd put little weight into anything he says about the Giants, especially if it's in contrast to what Sy is seeing.
(1) He's not processing the play fast enough (could be related to new scheme and complex defense he is facing, but he's had this problem before).
(2) He's not accurate enough (this is on him).
Agree on both counts, and will add a third, he seems to have poor pocket awareness. Doesn't feel pressure, and feels pressure that's not really there.
This is another great job by Sy! (Thanks, Sy!) And I realize he's scouting the player, and just reporting what he sees. But I wonder if he has any conjectures as to why he looked much better as a rookie? Sure, there are sophomore slumps, but this is beginning to more and more like just Danny.
If TT is the better option/gives us a better chance to win, then he should start. It is as simple as that to me. & perhaps PatersonPlank-who I respect as a poster-is right & a bunch of us are overreacting to last night/haven't even had a preseason game yet. But this just might be who DJ is as a QB. And if TT is the better option, then that tells me all I need to know about Jones' viability long term.
I agree the best QB should play, the point is to put the best team on the field. I am not even sure I like Jones frankly. However I just am responding to posters who ignore the good practices and jump all over the bad ones. New coaching, new offense, the defense is way ahead, etc. Its only a practice, its not even a preseason game.
I have to believe that after preseason, or for sure after a real game or two, if Daboll thinks Tyrod is the better QB then he will play (and he should). At that point we start gearing up for a QB draft choice.
We don't know what Jones is being asked out there, let it play out.
I don't know if he will cut it or not, but making hard judgements based on an August practice in a new offense makes little sense.
Do you think he was asked, or was put in a position where he would look bad, at a season ticket holder and fan fest event?
Yeah, we don't know what was asked. A reasonable person might conclude that's not the time were Daboll is saying 'air it out, I don't care about INTs, go give the DBs some practice'.
It's Xavier, Martinez (almost forgot about him), Williams and Lawrence against Jones and lets call it a work in progress. Kind of scary thin though at DB and DL.
We don't know what Jones is being asked out there, let it play out.
I don't know if he will cut it or not, but making hard judgements based on an August practice in a new offense makes little sense.
Do you think he was asked, or was put in a position where he would look bad, at a season ticket holder and fan fest event?
Yeah, we don't know what was asked. A reasonable person might conclude that's not the time were Daboll is saying 'air it out, I don't care about INTs, go give the DBs some practice'.
Daboll has said in an interview that he sometimes asks the QBs to hold it longer (to practice a game situation where they have to hold it and zip it in), and he has asked the QBs to throw some passes up for grabs just to see what the DBs do (so throw it to a WR they wouldn't normally throw it to). So we don't know really, only they know. All we can do is see who Daboll picks to run the team come September
Jimmy G to the Giants and here is one HUGE reason on the 9ers side of things.
They will have to trade Jimmy or cut him. If they cut him NOBODY will claim that salary. This he is a free agent and ripe for the Rams to sign. The 9ers may take far less for him and even pay some $$$$ to make sure he doesn't end up with the Rams.
I am not saying we should but, at this point Jones is Jones. He will do enough to tease here and there but never enough for he himself to be the difference on the winning side. Truthfully, outside of his solid performances against Washington over the years, his W/L record would look even more putrid than it does already.
Why are the Rams signing Jimmy G, and an even bigger question, why is Jimmy G signing where he has no chance to start? Plus, why would SF care that Jimmy G is going anywhere to be a backup?
We don't know what Jones is being asked out there, let it play out. He has two good practices and there are crickets on here, now a poor practice and the same old posters are all over him. Where were you this past week when he went 16-20 and 9-10?
I don't know if he will cut it or not, but making hard judgements based on an August practice in a new offense makes little sense.
Practice is easy. The good QBs are putting up stats they’d never reach in regular season games, which are way harder with an intense defense using a game plan designed to stop you and key teammates playing hurt. So playing well in practice doesn’t mean you’ll play well in real games. Playing badly on the other hand…
We don't know what Jones is being asked out there, let it play out. He has two good practices and there are crickets on here, now a poor practice and the same old posters are all over him. Where were you this past week when he went 16-20 and 9-10?
I don't know if he will cut it or not, but making hard judgements based on an August practice in a new offense makes little sense.
Practice is easy. The good QBs are putting up stats they’d never reach in regular season games, which are way harder with an intense defense using a game plan designed to stop you and key teammates playing hurt. So playing well in practice doesn’t mean you’ll play well in real games. Playing badly on the other hand…
Exactly. All these practices should be slam dunks. One bad day... sure. But every other day? Three bad practices already? This is nuts.
RE: RE: RE: We haven't even had a preseason game yet
We don't know what Jones is being asked out there, let it play out. He has two good practices and there are crickets on here, now a poor practice and the same old posters are all over him. Where were you this past week when he went 16-20 and 9-10?
I don't know if he will cut it or not, but making hard judgements based on an August practice in a new offense makes little sense.
Practice is easy. The good QBs are putting up stats they’d never reach in regular season games, which are way harder with an intense defense using a game plan designed to stop you and key teammates playing hurt. So playing well in practice doesn’t mean you’ll play well in real games. Playing badly on the other hand…
Exactly. All these practices should be slam dunks. One bad day... sure. But every other day? Three bad practices already? This is nuts.
I am not thinking Jones does anything special this year, but this is a silly take - practice is easy?
Wink is blitzing every damn down from every where. Good for the defense. But these are also unrealistic looks for the offense. They have a rookie RT, new RG and C(if on the field) trying to learn a new offense. Slam dunk? It is a great teaching tool because they will not see these blitzes regular season every game.
However...
I am not looking for any more excuses for Jones. He is what he has been. Sy knows his shit and I believe him. But for Pete's sake get realistic. It is the 1st week of camp and the offense is trying to learn a new system. Receivers need to make the right reads and be on the same page as the QB. If the WR goes the wrong way, the QB is left holding the bag (or ball as it were).
So can the slam dunk easy practice crap. Is Jones going to be good - I doubt it. Can we get to the regular season?
I have great respect for your viewpoint but I have to disagree. There is no chance that what Jones faces now is as intense as what he will face from the Packers and Ravens in October or from the Cowboys, Eagles and Commanders toward the end of the season.
We too often get in the mode of treating Daniel Jones as some kind of science project. Training camp isn't a place where the QB is completely lost because the competition is too stiff and then he eventually figures it out.
I hope DJ lights it up when the real bullets start flying, but let's be realistic: the odds are long.
He's still making the same mistakes time after time.
Fortunately we have guys running the offense now that know a stud QB when they see it. Damn how I would love to be a fly on the wall in the office while Daboll and Kafka are discussing things in private. These guys have spent the past few seasons working with Mahomes and Allen. I can’t imagine the culture shock following that up with what they are seeing now, in comparison, lol
RE: RE: RE: RE: We haven't even had a preseason game yet
We don't know what Jones is being asked out there, let it play out. He has two good practices and there are crickets on here, now a poor practice and the same old posters are all over him. Where were you this past week when he went 16-20 and 9-10?
I don't know if he will cut it or not, but making hard judgements based on an August practice in a new offense makes little sense.
Practice is easy. The good QBs are putting up stats they’d never reach in regular season games, which are way harder with an intense defense using a game plan designed to stop you and key teammates playing hurt. So playing well in practice doesn’t mean you’ll play well in real games. Playing badly on the other hand…
Exactly. All these practices should be slam dunks. One bad day... sure. But every other day? Three bad practices already? This is nuts.
I am not thinking Jones does anything special this year, but this is a silly take - practice is easy?
Wink is blitzing every damn down from every where. Good for the defense. But these are also unrealistic looks for the offense. They have a rookie RT, new RG and C(if on the field) trying to learn a new offense. Slam dunk? It is a great teaching tool because they will not see these blitzes regular season every game.
However...
I am not looking for any more excuses for Jones. He is what he has been. Sy knows his shit and I believe him. But for Pete's sake get realistic. It is the 1st week of camp and the offense is trying to learn a new system. Receivers need to make the right reads and be on the same page as the QB. If the WR goes the wrong way, the QB is left holding the bag (or ball as it were).
So can the slam dunk easy practice crap. Is Jones going to be good - I doubt it. Can we get to the regular season?
Fortunately we have guys running the offense now that know a stud QB when they see it. Damn how I would love to be a fly on the wall in the office while Daboll and Kafka are discussing things in private. These guys have spent the past few seasons working with Mahomes and Allen. I can’t imagine the culture shock following that up with what they are seeing now, in comparison, lol
This is a great observation. My guess is in a few weeks the general consensus is “oh boy.”
I hope DJ lights it up when the real bullets start flying, but let's be realistic: the odds are long.
He's still making the same mistakes time after time.
Fortunately we have guys running the offense now that know a stud QB when they see it. Damn how I would love to be a fly on the wall in the office while Daboll and Kafka are discussing things in private. These guys have spent the past few seasons working with Mahomes and Allen. I can’t imagine the culture shock following that up with what they are seeing now, in comparison, lol
I'd love to take Daboll & Kafka out for a few drinks & get them to loosen their ties, if you will. I think the DJ takes wouldn't be too hot.
Remember, Schoen & Daboll have no ties to DJ. They have nothing invested in this guy. And most GMs & HC want their own QB. Methinks we're taking a QB high next spring, unless DJ suddenly morphs into an elite QB. I hope he does, but I don't expect it. I'd love to eat crow. DJ seems like a very good kid & hard worker. But I'm more interested in getting a better QB.
RE: RE: RE: RE: We haven't even had a preseason game yet
I am not looking for any more excuses for Jones. He is what he has been. Sy knows his shit and I believe him. But for Pete's sake get realistic. It is the 1st week of camp and the offense is trying to learn a new system. Receivers need to make the right reads and be on the same page as the QB. If the WR goes the wrong way, the QB is left holding the bag (or ball as it were).
If you trust Sy's judgment, it seems that most of these struggles he is witnessing by Jones are largely on Jones. And not a function of the new offense and the supporting cast.
It certainly doesn't sound like Taylor is struggling at the rate Jones is...
I think this is possibly morphing into an old fashioned QB controversy.
I just wish John hadn't run his mouth defending DJ, saying they've done everything to screw up the kid. Schoen & Daboll heard that & probably feel pressure to play him.
Mara's loyalty to DJ is so odd to me. DJ has won nothing here. This isn't Eli redux. Eli is a 2X Super Bowl champion/MVP & likely Canton inductee sometime soon. DJ will likely be a backup QB next year.
Then again, Eli & DJ look alike/both played under Cutliffe so, ya know.
Jimmy G to the Giants and here is one HUGE reason on the 9ers side of things.
They will have to trade Jimmy or cut him. If they cut him NOBODY will claim that salary. This he is a free agent and ripe for the Rams to sign. The 9ers may take far less for him and even pay some $$$$ to make sure he doesn't end up with the Rams.
I am not saying we should but, at this point Jones is Jones. He will do enough to tease here and there but never enough for he himself to be the difference on the winning side. Truthfully, outside of his solid performances against Washington over the years, his W/L record would look even more putrid than it does already.
Why are the Rams signing Jimmy G, and an even bigger question, why is Jimmy G signing where he has no chance to start? Plus, why would SF care that Jimmy G is going anywhere to be a backup?
Stafford has an elbow injury that has the team concerned.
I have great respect for your viewpoint but I have to disagree. There is no chance that what Jones faces now is as intense as what he will face from the Packers and Ravens in October or from the Cowboys, Eagles and Commanders toward the end of the season.
We too often get in the mode of treating Daniel Jones as some kind of science project. Training camp isn't a place where the QB is completely lost because the competition is too stiff and then he eventually figures it out.
Well, we will disagree. The offense by that time will be in place. None of the teams you mention will be blitzing almost every down. Hugh difference between trying to install an offense vs running it and a Martindale defense vs a regular defense.
It is at this point a science project, it absolutely is. Again, I am not thinking Jones is the answer. But being dismissive of what the defense is doing in camp vs what the offense is trying to learn is naïve. Much easier to pin your ears back and attack, then to attack a defense with out game planning for it.
We are probably seeing this from a different POV. We can revisit Aug 22nd or so.
really excited to watch an actual defense this season, which will at least be something fun and interesting to root for.
as for the offense, TT will be starting by week 5. hopefully the season isn’t lost by then.
and LOL at letting Daniel Jones play the whole season if he continues to suck. tell that to the rest of the players. let’s use up another year of your careers to see if our FIFTH year QB can finally throw a TD pass in the red zone.
They are building the front lines - trying to win in the trenches. While this year is still a huge question at least long-term we feel confident we have two tackles. And it looks like the rookie at some point is going to be "a player."
If Jones fails then don't hold back and just use Taylor.
I’ll believe Daboll is souring on Jones. Once again. You look at the reports across practices and Jones has generally been good.
Jones has generally been good?? not sure if thats what been reported. have may have good here or there, but it has sounded like its been the same DJ, with the same problems
At least some good pieces on the D side were left by the last regime. Wink's style will be fun to watch though they still need more pieces and depth. Williams is a big part of the future imv. Encouraging news on Thibs. Secondary may surprise though lacking in depth.
Offense is work in progress. My guess is BD is still throwing a lot of things into the mix and they will cut down over time.
The big surprise this year is they really emphasis the run. They have some good young pieces and its the first step back.
The focus is always on Jones but the Giants are not getting to where they want again until they start imposing their will on the OL and front 7. Hoping this year establishes a strong push to that objective and the QB situation will be addressed when they can strike.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: We haven't even had a preseason game yet
I am not looking for any more excuses for Jones. He is what he has been. Sy knows his shit and I believe him. But for Pete's sake get realistic. It is the 1st week of camp and the offense is trying to learn a new system. Receivers need to make the right reads and be on the same page as the QB. If the WR goes the wrong way, the QB is left holding the bag (or ball as it were).
If you trust Sy's judgment, it seems that most of these struggles he is witnessing by Jones are largely on Jones. And not a function of the new offense and the supporting cast.
It certainly doesn't sound like Taylor is struggling at the rate Jones is...
I think this is possibly morphing into an old fashioned QB controversy.
We both agree Jones isn't the answer. But this is morphing into the old saying that the most popular guy on a football team is the back up QB.
In both reports Sy has said something to the effect that Taylor looks smoother. I do think you need a bit of a gunslinger attitude to play QB and Jones does not have it - trusts what he sees and throw the ball.
I do think that Daboll will pull the plug on Jones by the end of camp if he is not making progress sufficient to give the team a chance to win. One player cannot curb the development of the rest of the team, especially when it is this young.
1) I had Thibs as Edge 3 (same as Sy) stemming from some character things we’ve all heard 3rd hand. To be blunt, I think this is the most wrong I’m going to have been about a guy in a while and I still had him as a top 10 pick. While Walker’s upside is enormous and Hutchinson is “clean”, I’m getting more and more of a feeling Thibs outplays them significantly this year and going forward.
2) With that being said, remember Thomas had offseason surgery, didn’t really participate in OTA’s and likely is further behind the team “rounding into form”. In 3 week I don’t think Thibs looks as good against him.
3) Make or break year for Jones. The odds have been and continue to be slim he makes it, with that being said its early in the preseason and he’s learning another new system. Still not optimistic though
4) I know that we lost Bradberry and Ryan but I’ve felt some were more negative towards or defense than they should be. We added a legit EDGE, have young players developing at that position and upgraded DC. Nothing against Graham, he doesn’t have the resume Wink does
5) It seems every year people forget Leonard Williams is a good player then remember again the second they see him play. He’s overpaid and on a bad contract, but that doesn’t mean he’s not a good player
6) The news on Ezedu and the OL depth by Sy are extremely encouraging. A better OL makes everyone else on O look better
7) It seems as if the Robinson hype needs to be real and KT needs to step up for this offense to be functional
8) Neal seems to be adjusting and we didn’t see a ton of splashes from Rookies, but there seem to be a lot playing big roles. Schoen seems to be making his mark quickly
Ending with thanking Sy as always. The beat is becoming filled with 3rd party Twitter journalists watering things down and sometimes giving conflicting info that makes it hard for fans to know what to believe. Its very nice to have a trained and trusted set of eyes reporting this to us.
Is having interest other than football a character issue? Or were there other issues I didn’t read or hear about?
Best case scenario for the future of this franchise
Giants pick top 5 in the 2023 draft and hit on getting our franchise QB. There’s no middle ground on QBs. The other pieces are coming together. Winning a championship is the goal.
RE: Best case scenario for the future of this franchise
Giants pick top 5 in the 2023 draft and hit on getting our franchise QB. There’s no middle ground on QBs. The other pieces are coming together. Winning a championship is the goal.
Not to be pedantic, but the best scenario is Jones somehow figures it out and becomes a franchise QB.
True. But even the optimistic of us see Jones’ ceiling as average NFL starter.
We can hope he can be a top 10 QB but that seems highly unlikely. Eli was a top 10 QB for most of his career with top 5 arguments at moments
The minimum a starting QB gets is around 30 mil/year. Which is why you need an elite QB (or at least top 10ish).
When the WR corps is barely mentioned in the review
it says all I need to know about them. We still have no playmakers on offense.
That's a ridiculous take. I'm sorry. Golladay has been an all-pro. Toney looks dynamic when he's on the field. Robinson has started strong. Shep is a solid receiver. No more excuses for DJ. The WR corps is fine.
RE: RE: When the WR corps is barely mentioned in the review
it says all I need to know about them. We still have no playmakers on offense.
That's a ridiculous take. I'm sorry. Golladay has been an all-pro. Toney looks dynamic when he's on the field. Robinson has started strong. Shep is a solid receiver. No more excuses for DJ. The WR corps is fine.
Says the guy who only posts to bash Jones. Look who you're defending. None of these guys did anything when Jones wasn't on the field for the latter half of last season. They are also one of the highest paid units in the NFL. They have no responsibility for not being able to get into the endzone?
RE: RE: RE: When the WR corps is barely mentioned in the review
it says all I need to know about them. We still have no playmakers on offense.
That's a ridiculous take. I'm sorry. Golladay has been an all-pro. Toney looks dynamic when he's on the field. Robinson has started strong. Shep is a solid receiver. No more excuses for DJ. The WR corps is fine.
Says the guy who only posts to bash Jones. Look who you're defending. None of these guys did anything when Jones wasn't on the field for the latter half of last season. They are also one of the highest paid units in the NFL. They have no responsibility for not being able to get into the endzone?
You would do well to focus on the argument and not on the person making it.
Of course, everyone bears responsibility for the anemic offense. But this is a talented group and in a few cases, a group with a track record. It's on Jones to make it work with these guys. Period. End of story. No more excuses.
RE: RE: RE: RE: When the WR corps is barely mentioned in the review
it says all I need to know about them. We still have no playmakers on offense.
That's a ridiculous take. I'm sorry. Golladay has been an all-pro. Toney looks dynamic when he's on the field. Robinson has started strong. Shep is a solid receiver. No more excuses for DJ. The WR corps is fine.
Says the guy who only posts to bash Jones. Look who you're defending. None of these guys did anything when Jones wasn't on the field for the latter half of last season. They are also one of the highest paid units in the NFL. They have no responsibility for not being able to get into the endzone?
You would do well to focus on the argument and not on the person making it.
Of course, everyone bears responsibility for the anemic offense. But this is a talented group and in a few cases, a group with a track record. It's on Jones to make it work with these guys. Period. End of story. No more excuses.
When the person making the argument and the argument become synonymous, what's the difference? Again...no WR played well last year, regardless of the QB on the field. In camp this year the only WR whose name is consistently hailed is a rookie... hopefully he is the difference maker. Unlike you with Jones..I hope you are right and last year was an aberration for this talented, and highly paid, group of receivers.
RE: RE: When the WR corps is barely mentioned in the review
it says all I need to know about them. We still have no playmakers on offense.
That's a ridiculous take. I'm sorry. Golladay has been an all-pro. Toney looks dynamic when he's on the field. Robinson has started strong. Shep is a solid receiver. No more excuses for DJ. The WR corps is fine.
I agree with you for a change - I agree with you that this ais a big year for Jones. But to put in perspective your other notables:
1A--- Golladay "was" an ALL-Pro. Hearing SY speak of him he doesn't get separation. Maybe Golladay's best days are long gone?
1B-- More important; I agree with your context though but Golladay has to PLAY. He di play 14 games but I cna recall SY stating soem games he was playing at less than speed.
2---- Toney has to play. Shep has to play. Even Barkley has to play. '
If they are hurt - then it's a fact they suck. Sure Jones can suck too. But these guys have shown when thy are hurt- they suck too.
They are candidates to trade, cut or not sign long term when their next contract comes up because they have shown all that they can't remain healthy. Which is half the battle.
Sure dump Jones this year or during the season or end of season etc too if as SY seems to mention that Jones looks really bad.
The offense, well, for now it is what it is. I just hope they can play well enough so the defense isn't completely gassed by halftime.
is a better pass blocker right now than Evan Neal.
Not great news regarding Daniel Jones. Regrettably, Sy's observations are exactly the ones we've all been worried about for a couple of years.
The Giants ain't going from worst to Super Bowl in Year One of the Schoen / Daboll regime. A lot of trial-and-error needs to take place, and the two may well decide there's too much error in Daniel Jones' game.
On a happier note, sure sounds like Kayvon Thibodeaux is poised to make the rookie highlight film!
As for Jones, he's the same guy he’s always been, which is never going yo be good enough. He’s a backup masquerading as a starter.
I'm with you River Mike! Rooting for this young man. But I just can't shake my vision of him in the pocket. He stands tall; he stands strong; but... but... but... there's a noticeable lack of fluidity in his movement. And maybe a lack of recognition as to where he should slip and slide.
High-performing QBs just have a natural instinct about what they should do and where they should go when things go a little off schedule. Been watching a lot of Fran Tarkenton film from the Giants 1967 season. It just takes a few plays to notice how flexible and fluid he is in the pocket. Whether its "vision", "instinct" or something else, I don't quite know. But I'm afraid Daniel Jones just has a void in this aspect of his game.
Shockey.
The key is, do we see steady improvement over the next few weeks. It's a no brainer that he should play in all 3 pre-season games and hopefully most of the game.
also, you get the feel that it's going to be a monster year for Dexter Lawrence.
I agree about Dex. Him & Leo seem primed for monster years.
Feliciano and Mark Glowinski! Just hoping these guys can calm things down in the interior and allow Daniel Jones a little space to work with! That would be big.
Maybe, would be nice, but you left out one of the most important qualifiers in that selection about AR:
One that stood out for me was Zyon Gilbert. Another was Darrian Beavers.
Quote:
"...this isn’t going to work".
There is a scenario where Daboll/Kafka design an offense that generates big chunk plays and breaks open WRs 10-15 yards downfield, making it a bit easier for Daniel Jones to manage the game.
It's a process. Teams can't go from worst to first in just one season. And if the Giants make a decision to move on from Daniel Jones after this season... well, that's all part of the process!
They will have to trade Jimmy or cut him. If they cut him NOBODY will claim that salary. This he is a free agent and ripe for the Rams to sign. The 9ers may take far less for him and even pay some $$$$ to make sure he doesn't end up with the Rams.
I am not saying we should but, at this point Jones is Jones. He will do enough to tease here and there but never enough for he himself to be the difference on the winning side. Truthfully, outside of his solid performances against Washington over the years, his W/L record would look even more putrid than it does already.
Quote:
Quote:
"...this isn’t going to work".
There is a scenario where Daboll/Kafka design an offense that generates big chunk plays and breaks open WRs 10-15 yards downfield, making it a bit easier for Daniel Jones to manage the game.
"this isn't going to work" is simple and yet damning...
as to Jones, these are the same issues that were noted when he was coming out of Duke.
Jones' slow processing in the pocket has been a very consistent problem and it leads to most of the other problems (fumbles, etc.).
And it doesn't seem to be going away.
Oh, and thanks for the great report Sy.
Great news about Thibs. Kid seems ahead of schedule.
Quote:
Encouraging about Thibs. Discouraging about Jones.
Jones' slow processing in the pocket has been a very consistent problem and it leads to most of the other problems (fumbles, etc.).
And it doesn't seem to be going away.
Oh, and thanks for the great report Sy.
Honestly, the bigger concern is the inaccurate throws. He is who he is in terms of mental quickness on the field (lacks winning instinct) but the missing throws when he does have time is more worrisome because that takes even basic game manager off the table.
Beckham.
Quote:
Quote:
"...this isn’t going to work".
There is a scenario where Daboll/Kafka design an offense that generates big chunk plays and breaks open WRs 10-15 yards downfield, making it a bit easier for Daniel Jones to manage the game.
They could. But there are fundamental flaws in Jones' game that either get fixed or he has to go.
(1) He's not processing the play fast enough (could be related to new scheme and complex defense he is facing, but he's had this problem before).
(2) He's not accurate enough (this is on him).
Yeah, burning a top 10 pick on a Duke QB didn't work out for us, did it
Quote:
In comment 15773097 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
Encouraging about Thibs. Discouraging about Jones.
Jones' slow processing in the pocket has been a very consistent problem and it leads to most of the other problems (fumbles, etc.).
And it doesn't seem to be going away.
Oh, and thanks for the great report Sy.
Honestly, the bigger concern is the inaccurate throws. He is who he is in terms of mental quickness on the field (lacks winning instinct) but the missing throws when he does have time is more worrisome because that takes even basic game manager off the table.
Jones has been inaccurate since he entered the league, especially on short ti intermediate throws.
Quote:
In comment 15773097 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
Encouraging about Thibs. Discouraging about Jones.
Jones' slow processing in the pocket has been a very consistent problem and it leads to most of the other problems (fumbles, etc.).
And it doesn't seem to be going away.
Oh, and thanks for the great report Sy.
Honestly, the bigger concern is the inaccurate throws. He is who he is in terms of mental quickness on the field (lacks winning instinct) but the missing throws when he does have time is more worrisome because that takes even basic game manager off the table.
I wonder if the internal clock in his head is messed up because of the awful offensive lines he's been playing behind - going back even to college.
Quote:
Encouraging about Thibs. Discouraging about Jones.
Jones' slow processing in the pocket has been a very consistent problem and it leads to most of the other problems (fumbles, etc.).
And it doesn't seem to be going away.
Oh, and thanks for the great report Sy.
Maybe one thing Daboll/Kafka can do for Daniel Jones is always have a least one security blanket on pass plays with either Wan'Dale, Kadarius or Saquon hovering over the middle or slanting 10 yards downfield.
If Jones isn't gonna be the guy lets at least hope he can do enough to allow for proper evals on the line and WRs.
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(Other than Barkley) since LT where we had a dominate rookie. Let’s hope it pans out.
Shockey.
OBJ was dominant as a rookie.
(1) He's not processing the play fast enough (could be related to new scheme and complex defense he is facing, but he's had this problem before).
(2) He's not accurate enough (this is on him).
Others seem to disagree, but I thought Jones was quite accurate in his rookie year.
There were obviously other problems.
But his accuracy seems to have regressed since that year, which strikes me as odd because accuracy is normally sort of an innate skill.
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are two serious problems with Jones right now:
(1) He's not processing the play fast enough (could be related to new scheme and complex defense he is facing, but he's had this problem before).
(2) He's not accurate enough (this is on him).
Others seem to disagree, but I thought Jones was quite accurate in his rookie year.
There were obviously other problems.
But his accuracy seems to have regressed since that year, which strikes me as odd because accuracy is normally sort of an innate skill.
In 2019, Daniel Jones was 24th in the league in completion pct.
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In comment 15773134 JohnG in Albany said:
Quote:
In comment 15773097 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
Encouraging about Thibs. Discouraging about Jones.
Jones' slow processing in the pocket has been a very consistent problem and it leads to most of the other problems (fumbles, etc.).
And it doesn't seem to be going away.
Oh, and thanks for the great report Sy.
Honestly, the bigger concern is the inaccurate throws. He is who he is in terms of mental quickness on the field (lacks winning instinct) but the missing throws when he does have time is more worrisome because that takes even basic game manager off the table.
I wonder if the internal clock in his head is messed up because of the awful offensive lines he's been playing behind - going back even to college.
I would agree with that if he were throwing constant dump offs quickly- ie pressure or anticipated pressure causes his clock to be much faster. Holding it forever may be the result of early years always having to wait for a long time for guys to get open but truthfully I just think he is not at all instinctual. The reason he isnt a Rodgers, Mahomes, Allen is he lacks that gut instinct, the quick I am going to make this play mentality and it costs us under pressure and inside the 20. It is why Jones always seems better earlier in games between the 30's but horrible as the game progresses and the field becomes more between the 35 on our side and 45 on theirs. As the field or moment tightens Jones's lack of gut instinct and quick twitch response kills our offense.
I liked the praise of Glowinski - finally, a real NFL player at that position - but notice Sy’s disparaging comment about the WR corps. That was surprising. Kadarious, where art thou?
Next year it will be a different story. Barring a miracle, Jones will be gone and they'll be able to draft his successor.
The ? I'd love to know is how much rope Daboll is going to give Jones. If he continues to struggle & TT looks better-granted against backups-what are we doing? I know the John factor, but if we're in the business of winning games...well, I don't know. I'm talking aloud. It is just concerning to see these reports about a QB going into his 4th season.
Overall, I have now completely soured on Jones. He just doesn't have it in him.
He needs the reps in this new offense to get ready for the first regular season game.
This is in all likelihood his final season as a Giant.
The ? I'd love to know is how much rope Daboll is going to give Jones. If he continues to struggle & TT looks better-granted against backups-what are we doing? I know the John factor, but if we're in the business of winning games...well, I don't know. I'm talking aloud. It is just concerning to see these reports about a QB going into his 4th season.
What’s the point really? Letting Tyrod Taylor win an extra couple of games would accomplish what? Unless Jones becomes an absolute disaster of 2020 Mike Glennon proportions, they might as well run him out there every week so they can say when they move on that they gave him every chance to succeed as a coaching staff.
He needs the reps in this new offense to get ready for the first regular season game.
This is in all likelihood his final season as a Giant.
I’d argue that the entire offense needs to play more than ones usually would in the preseason.
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Which is contrary to most teams starting QB’s in preseason.
He needs the reps in this new offense to get ready for the first regular season game.
This is in all likelihood his final season as a Giant.
I’d argue that the entire offense needs to play more than ones usually would in the preseason.
Feliciano should be limited immedidately. The drop off there if he has any more issues is too much...
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I'm not worried about Neal. He's a rookie. AT struggled as a rookie too.
The ? I'd love to know is how much rope Daboll is going to give Jones. If he continues to struggle & TT looks better-granted against backups-what are we doing? I know the John factor, but if we're in the business of winning games...well, I don't know. I'm talking aloud. It is just concerning to see these reports about a QB going into his 4th season.
What’s the point really? Letting Tyrod Taylor win an extra couple of games would accomplish what? Unless Jones becomes an absolute disaster of 2020 Mike Glennon proportions, they might as well run him out there every week so they can say when they move on that they gave him every chance to succeed as a coaching staff.
Do you mean 2021? Glennon wasn't here in 2020, Colt McCoy was the backup then.
Same goes for Feliciano...as Lawrence and Williams are solid.
Jones must be accurate....he will never be quick. He must improve.
The corners know our WRs and have seen too many of our routes....will hold judgment until they play other teams.
Keep improving
Do you mean 2021? Glennon wasn't here in 2020, Colt McCoy was the backup then.
Yeah, my mistake.
Daniel Jones QB play is worrisome
Great news about Thibs. Kid seems ahead of schedule.
I still can’t shake the early drive on a MNF last year in Tampa where he had a wide open KG inside the redzone with so much space he could have crawled into the end zone, but he threw a wildly inaccurate pass to his left to a very covered WR.
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I hope people caught one of the most important comments made by Sy... Aaron Robinson looks pretty good. Also, Feliciano.
also, you get the feel that it's going to be a monster year for Dexter Lawrence.
It's a contract year, he's going to Lawrence WIlliams s*** up.
The offense, well, for now it is what it is. I just hope they can play well enough so the defense isn't completely gassed by halftime.
Key point, Klaatu. Ojulari as the #1 is underwhelming. But Ojulari as the guy opposite a great pass rusher is strong. And I think we all may be underrating him a bit due to his assignments within Graham's scheme. He's more explosive than he showed last year.
Defense dominating - ( New Window )
2) With that being said, remember Thomas had offseason surgery, didn’t really participate in OTA’s and likely is further behind the team “rounding into form”. In 3 week I don’t think Thibs looks as good against him.
3) Make or break year for Jones. The odds have been and continue to be slim he makes it, with that being said its early in the preseason and he’s learning another new system. Still not optimistic though
4) I know that we lost Bradberry and Ryan but I’ve felt some were more negative towards or defense than they should be. We added a legit EDGE, have young players developing at that position and upgraded DC. Nothing against Graham, he doesn’t have the resume Wink does
5) It seems every year people forget Leonard Williams is a good player then remember again the second they see him play. He’s overpaid and on a bad contract, but that doesn’t mean he’s not a good player
6) The news on Ezedu and the OL depth by Sy are extremely encouraging. A better OL makes everyone else on O look better
7) It seems as if the Robinson hype needs to be real and KT needs to step up for this offense to be functional
8) Neal seems to be adjusting and we didn’t see a ton of splashes from Rookies, but there seem to be a lot playing big roles. Schoen seems to be making his mark quickly
Ending with thanking Sy as always. The beat is becoming filled with 3rd party Twitter journalists watering things down and sometimes giving conflicting info that makes it hard for fans to know what to believe. Its very nice to have a trained and trusted set of eyes reporting this to us.
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have a great deal of respect for Sy, so it was disappointing to read his take on Jones. I have not been convinced either way on him but think he should be given a chance with new management/coaches and legitimate team talent. Of course hoping he would shine because that's the best outcome for the team. Still hoping.
I'm with you River Mike! Rooting for this young man. But I just can't shake my vision of him in the pocket. He stands tall; he stands strong; but... but... but... there's a noticeable lack of fluidity in his movement. And maybe a lack of recognition as to where he should slip and slide.
High-performing QBs just have a natural instinct about what they should do and where they should go when things go a little off schedule. Been watching a lot of Fran Tarkenton film from the Giants 1967 season. It just takes a few plays to notice how flexible and fluid he is in the pocket. Whether its "vision", "instinct" or something else, I don't quite know. But I'm afraid Daniel Jones just has a void in this aspect of his game.
And I agree with you. He has yet to show adequate pocket awarness. I dnon't know whether this issomething that can be developed with experience or whether you either got it or you ain't. I am old enough to have seen Tarkenton play. He seemed to have 360 degree vision and incredible escapability. I don't think many, and certainly not DJ can achieve that level, but hopefully at least average.
That can’t be right. We’ve already come to the conclusion the Giants botched the center position THIS season because Gettleman fucked up the entire line LAST YEAR.
From the article:
This "should have been" sack was entirely on Evan Neal, not Jones.
Neal gave up his blocking lane to make an unnecessary double team, leaving the lane wide open for Holmes.
Two things will determine whether Neal pans out: his feet and his awareness.
In this case, it was the latter that was lacking.
nyg twitter - ( New Window )
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On another view, maybe too hard on Neal. Offense didn't have enough guys to block.
But would like to see his head more on a swivel. Hernandez never fixed his problem with awareness of blitzers.
Some concern with Neal but he is still a rookie.
Not liking what I am hearing about Jones. To think we used to call this guy "Dimes"...the inaccuracy is not what you want to hear. After reading what you put together I just think how long it will be before Taylor is the new starter. I am not a Jones hater but the kid has been given more than enough rope. We will see as the camp and preseason games progress.
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I'm not worried about Neal. He's a rookie. AT struggled as a rookie too.
The ? I'd love to know is how much rope Daboll is going to give Jones. If he continues to struggle & TT looks better-granted against backups-what are we doing? I know the John factor, but if we're in the business of winning games...well, I don't know. I'm talking aloud. It is just concerning to see these reports about a QB going into his 4th season.
What’s the point really? Letting Tyrod Taylor win an extra couple of games would accomplish what? Unless Jones becomes an absolute disaster of 2020 Mike Glennon proportions, they might as well run him out there every week so they can say when they move on that they gave him every chance to succeed as a coaching staff.
Here is an answer, Tyrod is under contract for two years. If he takes over he is the incumbent next year to lead a rookie forward before being supplanted. Jones is pretty much assured of not being here next year.
The Giants are not going to throw away yet another season just to hope he gets his head right.
Fingers crossed he gets his game together in the next month.
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Wink is making it tough….even in practice. Defense dominating - ( New Window )
From the article:
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The Giants faced a third-and-eight on the first series. Jones took the shotgun snap, gave a quick glance left, then came back right. Cornerback Darnay Holmes was there — an untouched blitzer. Jones is on the ground if wearing any color other than red. Instead, Holmes dodged his quarterback, the play continued, and Jones connected with rookie Wan’Dale Robinson for a 28-yard gain.
This "should have been" sack was entirely on Evan Neal, not Jones.
Neal gave up his blocking lane to make an unnecessary double team, leaving the lane wide open for Holmes.
Two things will determine whether Neal pans out: his feet and his awareness.
In this case, it was the latter that was lacking. nyg twitter - ( New Window )
Willioams and Martinez ran a stunt and he picked up Martinez....nobody was double teamed....he could have picked up Holmes, but then Martinez runs free....shouldnt jones recognize that there is going to be a free rusher before the snap and hit a hot read? im not an expert by any means, but thats what the replay shows.
As Eric notes, it seems that Jones still has the same problems he's always had, namely that he doesn't process quickly enough and is too inaccurate. As I have said, I think this is the last year for Jones. But I don't see the Giants trading for Jimmy G. If Jones falters, they'll just go with Taylor.
It's also not encouraging that Slayton is now third string. Given that he doesn't play ST and the Giants could save $2.5M by trading or cutting him, I do wonder if he'll be on the roster on opening day.
Golladay not being able to separate except on slants is discouraging but not surprising. His is a terrible contract that the Giants may well rid themselves of next year.
Good to hear about A. Robinson, KT, and Gilbert.
Hope McKeathen is OK.
I'm tired of this team starting out poorly, tired of the season being over in October.
If Tyrod Taylor gives the Giants a better chance to win, and its sounding more & more like he does, start him.
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Wink is making it tough….even in practice. Defense dominating - ( New Window )
From the article:
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The Giants faced a third-and-eight on the first series. Jones took the shotgun snap, gave a quick glance left, then came back right. Cornerback Darnay Holmes was there — an untouched blitzer. Jones is on the ground if wearing any color other than red. Instead, Holmes dodged his quarterback, the play continued, and Jones connected with rookie Wan’Dale Robinson for a 28-yard gain.
This "should have been" sack was entirely on Evan Neal, not Jones.
Neal gave up his blocking lane to make an unnecessary double team, leaving the lane wide open for Holmes.
Two things will determine whether Neal pans out: his feet and his awareness.
In this case, it was the latter that was lacking. nyg twitter - ( New Window )
What are you talking about? Neal picked up the blitzing MLB perfectly. There was no double team, the OG took Williams.
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In comment 15773162 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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I'm not worried about Neal. He's a rookie. AT struggled as a rookie too.
The ? I'd love to know is how much rope Daboll is going to give Jones. If he continues to struggle & TT looks better-granted against backups-what are we doing? I know the John factor, but if we're in the business of winning games...well, I don't know. I'm talking aloud. It is just concerning to see these reports about a QB going into his 4th season.
What’s the point really? Letting Tyrod Taylor win an extra couple of games would accomplish what? Unless Jones becomes an absolute disaster of 2020 Mike Glennon proportions, they might as well run him out there every week so they can say when they move on that they gave him every chance to succeed as a coaching staff.
Here is an answer, Tyrod is under contract for two years. If he takes over he is the incumbent next year to lead a rookie forward before being supplanted. Jones is pretty much assured of not being here next year.
to each their own I guess....
What are you talking about? Neal picked up the blitzing MLB perfectly. There was no double team, the OG took Williams.
Right, see my second post immediately after my first one.
Better coach on D
Better talent in D and they should be able to pressure the QB for a change
Better coaching and scheme on O
Better talent/better OL
Running game should be improved
Jones is still Jones
We have a very competent back QB for a change who may see substantial time this year.
Not perfect, but so much better than this time last year.
Let the Tyrod Taylor era begin.
I don't know if he will cut it or not, but making hard judgements based on an August practice in a new offense makes little sense.
Anyone know if the Giants are doing joint practices this year with any of the preseason team?
Means absolutely nothing.
Anyone know if the Giants are doing joint practices this year with any of the preseason team?
I believe they have practices with the Jets later this month
Does it mean something when posters say Jones was "lights out" two days in row earlier this week, or when another player like Thibodeaux or Dex looks good?
It's Year 4 and just a couple weeks from the start of the season...when should it mean something for this QB?
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[Holmes] did not have the feel for coverage against Robinson and Kadarius Toney the way Julian Love did. Love made anticipated breaks on the ball a couple of times and was fast enough for man coverage against all of the NYG receivers.
I've been skeptical of Love's speed, even at FS, let alone CB. Hope I've been wrong. But again, the qualifier that hangs over all these DB characterizations: they're going against a sub par group.
Sy has been telling us for years Love is too easily overlooked and he is better than you think. No not overly fast, but just where he should be all the time.
I don't know if he will cut it or not, but making hard judgements based on an August practice in a new offense makes little sense.
+1…. It’s overreaction Saturday Batman!!! Jones is playing against a defense that’s bringing pressure from everywhere and anywhere. So he will have practices like this. He’s going through a process here folks. He will not many, if any, defenses who’s as exotic at disguising pressures as ours. If Jones is doing this in the preseason or real games that’s one thing, but rough practices? He’ll get better as he goes along and getting more familiar with the system and players.
A potential positive might be Taylor, who may offer an improvement over Jones.
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Really appreciate you doing these.
Anyone know if the Giants are doing joint practices this year with any of the preseason team?
I believe they have practices with the Jets later this month
Thanks Sy
(2) He's not accurate enough (this is on him).
It was interesting that Shaun O'Hara went out of his way to basically say, "despite all of his faults, Jones is very accurate."
I get that O'Hara works for the Giants but he was saying that DJ has serious deficits but accuracy isn't one of them.
He could've picked any other attribute like work ethic, speed, toughness but he settled on accuracy.
I thought the WRs would be better than we have had in a while with Toney healthy, Wan'Dale and a fully functional Golladay. Gosh, how bad Gettleman was at evaluating talent with that Golladay deal....
Fwiw Hughes is a big Jets fan and homer. I couldn't believe some of the stuff he'd written slobbering over Darnold a couple of years ago. I'd put little weight into anything he says about the Giants, especially if it's in contrast to what Sy is seeing.
(1) He's not processing the play fast enough (could be related to new scheme and complex defense he is facing, but he's had this problem before).
(2) He's not accurate enough (this is on him).
Agree on both counts, and will add a third, he seems to have poor pocket awareness. Doesn't feel pressure, and feels pressure that's not really there.
This is another great job by Sy! (Thanks, Sy!) And I realize he's scouting the player, and just reporting what he sees. But I wonder if he has any conjectures as to why he looked much better as a rookie? Sure, there are sophomore slumps, but this is beginning to more and more like just Danny.
I agree the best QB should play, the point is to put the best team on the field. I am not even sure I like Jones frankly. However I just am responding to posters who ignore the good practices and jump all over the bad ones. New coaching, new offense, the defense is way ahead, etc. Its only a practice, its not even a preseason game.
I have to believe that after preseason, or for sure after a real game or two, if Daboll thinks Tyrod is the better QB then he will play (and he should). At that point we start gearing up for a QB draft choice.
I don't know if he will cut it or not, but making hard judgements based on an August practice in a new offense makes little sense.
Do you think he was asked, or was put in a position where he would look bad, at a season ticket holder and fan fest event?
Yeah, we don't know what was asked. A reasonable person might conclude that's not the time were Daboll is saying 'air it out, I don't care about INTs, go give the DBs some practice'.
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We don't know what Jones is being asked out there, let it play out.
I don't know if he will cut it or not, but making hard judgements based on an August practice in a new offense makes little sense.
Do you think he was asked, or was put in a position where he would look bad, at a season ticket holder and fan fest event?
Yeah, we don't know what was asked. A reasonable person might conclude that's not the time were Daboll is saying 'air it out, I don't care about INTs, go give the DBs some practice'.
Daboll has said in an interview that he sometimes asks the QBs to hold it longer (to practice a game situation where they have to hold it and zip it in), and he has asked the QBs to throw some passes up for grabs just to see what the DBs do (so throw it to a WR they wouldn't normally throw it to). So we don't know really, only they know. All we can do is see who Daboll picks to run the team come September
They will have to trade Jimmy or cut him. If they cut him NOBODY will claim that salary. This he is a free agent and ripe for the Rams to sign. The 9ers may take far less for him and even pay some $$$$ to make sure he doesn't end up with the Rams.
I am not saying we should but, at this point Jones is Jones. He will do enough to tease here and there but never enough for he himself to be the difference on the winning side. Truthfully, outside of his solid performances against Washington over the years, his W/L record would look even more putrid than it does already.
Why are the Rams signing Jimmy G, and an even bigger question, why is Jimmy G signing where he has no chance to start? Plus, why would SF care that Jimmy G is going anywhere to be a backup?
He's a coach, not a marketing consultant.
I don't know if he will cut it or not, but making hard judgements based on an August practice in a new offense makes little sense.
Practice is easy. The good QBs are putting up stats they’d never reach in regular season games, which are way harder with an intense defense using a game plan designed to stop you and key teammates playing hurt. So playing well in practice doesn’t mean you’ll play well in real games. Playing badly on the other hand…
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We don't know what Jones is being asked out there, let it play out. He has two good practices and there are crickets on here, now a poor practice and the same old posters are all over him. Where were you this past week when he went 16-20 and 9-10?
I don't know if he will cut it or not, but making hard judgements based on an August practice in a new offense makes little sense.
Practice is easy. The good QBs are putting up stats they’d never reach in regular season games, which are way harder with an intense defense using a game plan designed to stop you and key teammates playing hurt. So playing well in practice doesn’t mean you’ll play well in real games. Playing badly on the other hand…
Exactly. All these practices should be slam dunks. One bad day... sure. But every other day? Three bad practices already? This is nuts.
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In comment 15773250 PatersonPlank said:
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We don't know what Jones is being asked out there, let it play out. He has two good practices and there are crickets on here, now a poor practice and the same old posters are all over him. Where were you this past week when he went 16-20 and 9-10?
I don't know if he will cut it or not, but making hard judgements based on an August practice in a new offense makes little sense.
Practice is easy. The good QBs are putting up stats they’d never reach in regular season games, which are way harder with an intense defense using a game plan designed to stop you and key teammates playing hurt. So playing well in practice doesn’t mean you’ll play well in real games. Playing badly on the other hand…
Exactly. All these practices should be slam dunks. One bad day... sure. But every other day? Three bad practices already? This is nuts.
I am not thinking Jones does anything special this year, but this is a silly take - practice is easy?
Wink is blitzing every damn down from every where. Good for the defense. But these are also unrealistic looks for the offense. They have a rookie RT, new RG and C(if on the field) trying to learn a new offense. Slam dunk? It is a great teaching tool because they will not see these blitzes regular season every game.
However...
I am not looking for any more excuses for Jones. He is what he has been. Sy knows his shit and I believe him. But for Pete's sake get realistic. It is the 1st week of camp and the offense is trying to learn a new system. Receivers need to make the right reads and be on the same page as the QB. If the WR goes the wrong way, the QB is left holding the bag (or ball as it were).
So can the slam dunk easy practice crap. Is Jones going to be good - I doubt it. Can we get to the regular season?
We too often get in the mode of treating Daniel Jones as some kind of science project. Training camp isn't a place where the QB is completely lost because the competition is too stiff and then he eventually figures it out.
He was gone almost a week.
Without telling it, it was likely a Covid situation.
But they need him in there, and to cut Jamil Douglas.
He's still making the same mistakes time after time.
He's still making the same mistakes time after time.
Fortunately we have guys running the offense now that know a stud QB when they see it. Damn how I would love to be a fly on the wall in the office while Daboll and Kafka are discussing things in private. These guys have spent the past few seasons working with Mahomes and Allen. I can’t imagine the culture shock following that up with what they are seeing now, in comparison, lol
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In comment 15773355 cosmicj said:
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In comment 15773250 PatersonPlank said:
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We don't know what Jones is being asked out there, let it play out. He has two good practices and there are crickets on here, now a poor practice and the same old posters are all over him. Where were you this past week when he went 16-20 and 9-10?
I don't know if he will cut it or not, but making hard judgements based on an August practice in a new offense makes little sense.
Practice is easy. The good QBs are putting up stats they’d never reach in regular season games, which are way harder with an intense defense using a game plan designed to stop you and key teammates playing hurt. So playing well in practice doesn’t mean you’ll play well in real games. Playing badly on the other hand…
Exactly. All these practices should be slam dunks. One bad day... sure. But every other day? Three bad practices already? This is nuts.
I am not thinking Jones does anything special this year, but this is a silly take - practice is easy?
Wink is blitzing every damn down from every where. Good for the defense. But these are also unrealistic looks for the offense. They have a rookie RT, new RG and C(if on the field) trying to learn a new offense. Slam dunk? It is a great teaching tool because they will not see these blitzes regular season every game.
However...
I am not looking for any more excuses for Jones. He is what he has been. Sy knows his shit and I believe him. But for Pete's sake get realistic. It is the 1st week of camp and the offense is trying to learn a new system. Receivers need to make the right reads and be on the same page as the QB. If the WR goes the wrong way, the QB is left holding the bag (or ball as it were).
So can the slam dunk easy practice crap. Is Jones going to be good - I doubt it. Can we get to the regular season?
A slam dunk?
Why would you suggest such a thing?
Strange and inaccurate take.
This is a great observation. My guess is in a few weeks the general consensus is “oh boy.”
On the bright side, overall its been a good week. Trevon Diggs got chased off twitter for sucking ass in practice.
https://www.barstoolsports.com/blog/3427629/trevon-diggs-deleted-his-twitter-because-people-kept-posting-videos-of-him-getting-smoked-by-practice-squad-wrs
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I hope DJ lights it up when the real bullets start flying, but let's be realistic: the odds are long.
He's still making the same mistakes time after time.
Fortunately we have guys running the offense now that know a stud QB when they see it. Damn how I would love to be a fly on the wall in the office while Daboll and Kafka are discussing things in private. These guys have spent the past few seasons working with Mahomes and Allen. I can’t imagine the culture shock following that up with what they are seeing now, in comparison, lol
I'd love to take Daboll & Kafka out for a few drinks & get them to loosen their ties, if you will. I think the DJ takes wouldn't be too hot.
Remember, Schoen & Daboll have no ties to DJ. They have nothing invested in this guy. And most GMs & HC want their own QB. Methinks we're taking a QB high next spring, unless DJ suddenly morphs into an elite QB. I hope he does, but I don't expect it. I'd love to eat crow. DJ seems like a very good kid & hard worker. But I'm more interested in getting a better QB.
I am not looking for any more excuses for Jones. He is what he has been. Sy knows his shit and I believe him. But for Pete's sake get realistic. It is the 1st week of camp and the offense is trying to learn a new system. Receivers need to make the right reads and be on the same page as the QB. If the WR goes the wrong way, the QB is left holding the bag (or ball as it were).
If you trust Sy's judgment, it seems that most of these struggles he is witnessing by Jones are largely on Jones. And not a function of the new offense and the supporting cast.
It certainly doesn't sound like Taylor is struggling at the rate Jones is...
I think this is possibly morphing into an old fashioned QB controversy.
Mara's loyalty to DJ is so odd to me. DJ has won nothing here. This isn't Eli redux. Eli is a 2X Super Bowl champion/MVP & likely Canton inductee sometime soon. DJ will likely be a backup QB next year.
Then again, Eli & DJ look alike/both played under Cutliffe so, ya know.
DJ? I am at a loss.
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Jimmy G to the Giants and here is one HUGE reason on the 9ers side of things.
They will have to trade Jimmy or cut him. If they cut him NOBODY will claim that salary. This he is a free agent and ripe for the Rams to sign. The 9ers may take far less for him and even pay some $$$$ to make sure he doesn't end up with the Rams.
I am not saying we should but, at this point Jones is Jones. He will do enough to tease here and there but never enough for he himself to be the difference on the winning side. Truthfully, outside of his solid performances against Washington over the years, his W/L record would look even more putrid than it does already.
Why are the Rams signing Jimmy G, and an even bigger question, why is Jimmy G signing where he has no chance to start? Plus, why would SF care that Jimmy G is going anywhere to be a backup?
Stafford has an elbow injury that has the team concerned.
We too often get in the mode of treating Daniel Jones as some kind of science project. Training camp isn't a place where the QB is completely lost because the competition is too stiff and then he eventually figures it out.
Well, we will disagree. The offense by that time will be in place. None of the teams you mention will be blitzing almost every down. Hugh difference between trying to install an offense vs running it and a Martindale defense vs a regular defense.
It is at this point a science project, it absolutely is. Again, I am not thinking Jones is the answer. But being dismissive of what the defense is doing in camp vs what the offense is trying to learn is naïve. Much easier to pin your ears back and attack, then to attack a defense with out game planning for it.
We are probably seeing this from a different POV. We can revisit Aug 22nd or so.
as for the offense, TT will be starting by week 5. hopefully the season isn’t lost by then.
and LOL at letting Daniel Jones play the whole season if he continues to suck. tell that to the rest of the players. let’s use up another year of your careers to see if our FIFTH year QB can finally throw a TD pass in the red zone.
If Jones fails then don't hold back and just use Taylor.
Jones has generally been good?? not sure if thats what been reported. have may have good here or there, but it has sounded like its been the same DJ, with the same problems
Offense is work in progress. My guess is BD is still throwing a lot of things into the mix and they will cut down over time.
The big surprise this year is they really emphasis the run. They have some good young pieces and its the first step back.
The focus is always on Jones but the Giants are not getting to where they want again until they start imposing their will on the OL and front 7. Hoping this year establishes a strong push to that objective and the QB situation will be addressed when they can strike.
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I am not looking for any more excuses for Jones. He is what he has been. Sy knows his shit and I believe him. But for Pete's sake get realistic. It is the 1st week of camp and the offense is trying to learn a new system. Receivers need to make the right reads and be on the same page as the QB. If the WR goes the wrong way, the QB is left holding the bag (or ball as it were).
If you trust Sy's judgment, it seems that most of these struggles he is witnessing by Jones are largely on Jones. And not a function of the new offense and the supporting cast.
It certainly doesn't sound like Taylor is struggling at the rate Jones is...
I think this is possibly morphing into an old fashioned QB controversy.
We both agree Jones isn't the answer. But this is morphing into the old saying that the most popular guy on a football team is the back up QB.
In both reports Sy has said something to the effect that Taylor looks smoother. I do think you need a bit of a gunslinger attitude to play QB and Jones does not have it - trusts what he sees and throw the ball.
I do think that Daboll will pull the plug on Jones by the end of camp if he is not making progress sufficient to give the team a chance to win. One player cannot curb the development of the rest of the team, especially when it is this young.
2) With that being said, remember Thomas had offseason surgery, didn’t really participate in OTA’s and likely is further behind the team “rounding into form”. In 3 week I don’t think Thibs looks as good against him.
3) Make or break year for Jones. The odds have been and continue to be slim he makes it, with that being said its early in the preseason and he’s learning another new system. Still not optimistic though
4) I know that we lost Bradberry and Ryan but I’ve felt some were more negative towards or defense than they should be. We added a legit EDGE, have young players developing at that position and upgraded DC. Nothing against Graham, he doesn’t have the resume Wink does
5) It seems every year people forget Leonard Williams is a good player then remember again the second they see him play. He’s overpaid and on a bad contract, but that doesn’t mean he’s not a good player
6) The news on Ezedu and the OL depth by Sy are extremely encouraging. A better OL makes everyone else on O look better
7) It seems as if the Robinson hype needs to be real and KT needs to step up for this offense to be functional
8) Neal seems to be adjusting and we didn’t see a ton of splashes from Rookies, but there seem to be a lot playing big roles. Schoen seems to be making his mark quickly
Ending with thanking Sy as always. The beat is becoming filled with 3rd party Twitter journalists watering things down and sometimes giving conflicting info that makes it hard for fans to know what to believe. Its very nice to have a trained and trusted set of eyes reporting this to us.
Is having interest other than football a character issue? Or were there other issues I didn’t read or hear about?
Not to be pedantic, but the best scenario is Jones somehow figures it out and becomes a franchise QB.
We can hope he can be a top 10 QB but that seems highly unlikely. Eli was a top 10 QB for most of his career with top 5 arguments at moments
The minimum a starting QB gets is around 30 mil/year. Which is why you need an elite QB (or at least top 10ish).
That's a ridiculous take. I'm sorry. Golladay has been an all-pro. Toney looks dynamic when he's on the field. Robinson has started strong. Shep is a solid receiver. No more excuses for DJ. The WR corps is fine.
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it says all I need to know about them. We still have no playmakers on offense.
That's a ridiculous take. I'm sorry. Golladay has been an all-pro. Toney looks dynamic when he's on the field. Robinson has started strong. Shep is a solid receiver. No more excuses for DJ. The WR corps is fine.
Says the guy who only posts to bash Jones. Look who you're defending. None of these guys did anything when Jones wasn't on the field for the latter half of last season. They are also one of the highest paid units in the NFL. They have no responsibility for not being able to get into the endzone?
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In comment 15773961 Thunderstruck27 said:
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it says all I need to know about them. We still have no playmakers on offense.
That's a ridiculous take. I'm sorry. Golladay has been an all-pro. Toney looks dynamic when he's on the field. Robinson has started strong. Shep is a solid receiver. No more excuses for DJ. The WR corps is fine.
Says the guy who only posts to bash Jones. Look who you're defending. None of these guys did anything when Jones wasn't on the field for the latter half of last season. They are also one of the highest paid units in the NFL. They have no responsibility for not being able to get into the endzone?
You would do well to focus on the argument and not on the person making it.
Of course, everyone bears responsibility for the anemic offense. But this is a talented group and in a few cases, a group with a track record. It's on Jones to make it work with these guys. Period. End of story. No more excuses.
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In comment 15773969 Producer said:
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In comment 15773961 Thunderstruck27 said:
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it says all I need to know about them. We still have no playmakers on offense.
That's a ridiculous take. I'm sorry. Golladay has been an all-pro. Toney looks dynamic when he's on the field. Robinson has started strong. Shep is a solid receiver. No more excuses for DJ. The WR corps is fine.
Says the guy who only posts to bash Jones. Look who you're defending. None of these guys did anything when Jones wasn't on the field for the latter half of last season. They are also one of the highest paid units in the NFL. They have no responsibility for not being able to get into the endzone?
You would do well to focus on the argument and not on the person making it.
Of course, everyone bears responsibility for the anemic offense. But this is a talented group and in a few cases, a group with a track record. It's on Jones to make it work with these guys. Period. End of story. No more excuses.
When the person making the argument and the argument become synonymous, what's the difference? Again...no WR played well last year, regardless of the QB on the field. In camp this year the only WR whose name is consistently hailed is a rookie... hopefully he is the difference maker. Unlike you with Jones..I hope you are right and last year was an aberration for this talented, and highly paid, group of receivers.
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it says all I need to know about them. We still have no playmakers on offense.
That's a ridiculous take. I'm sorry. Golladay has been an all-pro. Toney looks dynamic when he's on the field. Robinson has started strong. Shep is a solid receiver. No more excuses for DJ. The WR corps is fine.
I agree with you for a change - I agree with you that this ais a big year for Jones. But to put in perspective your other notables:
1A--- Golladay "was" an ALL-Pro. Hearing SY speak of him he doesn't get separation. Maybe Golladay's best days are long gone?
1B-- More important; I agree with your context though but Golladay has to PLAY. He di play 14 games but I cna recall SY stating soem games he was playing at less than speed.
2---- Toney has to play. Shep has to play. Even Barkley has to play. '
If they are hurt - then it's a fact they suck. Sure Jones can suck too. But these guys have shown when thy are hurt- they suck too.
They are candidates to trade, cut or not sign long term when their next contract comes up because they have shown all that they can't remain healthy. Which is half the battle.
Sure dump Jones this year or during the season or end of season etc too if as SY seems to mention that Jones looks really bad.
and I think we get Tyrod Taylor starting for the Giants around week 4. I'm also good with that.