It's hard not to get too excited about Thibodeaux. I hope Ojulari can get back soon, because he and Thibs can be a "dynamic duo" the likes of which we haven't had around here in a long time. Honestly, it's hard not get excited about the defense overall.
The offense, well, for now it is what it is. I just hope they can play well enough so the defense isn't completely gassed by halftime.
is a better pass blocker right now than Evan Neal.
Not great news regarding Daniel Jones. Regrettably, Sy's observations are exactly the ones we've all been worried about for a couple of years.
The Giants ain't going from worst to Super Bowl in Year One of the Schoen / Daboll regime. A lot of trial-and-error needs to take place, and the two may well decide there's too much error in Daniel Jones' game.
On a happier note, sure sounds like Kayvon Thibodeaux is poised to make the rookie highlight film!
have a great deal of respect for Sy, so it was disappointing to read his take on Jones. I have not been convinced either way on him but think he should be given a chance with new management/coaches and legitimate team talent. Of course hoping he would shine because that's the best outcome for the team. Still hoping.
Would be great if Thibs and Ojulari can get 8-10 sacks each this year
have a great deal of respect for Sy, so it was disappointing to read his take on Jones. I have not been convinced either way on him but think he should be given a chance with new management/coaches and legitimate team talent. Of course hoping he would shine because that's the best outcome for the team. Still hoping.
I'm with you River Mike! Rooting for this young man. But I just can't shake my vision of him in the pocket. He stands tall; he stands strong; but... but... but... there's a noticeable lack of fluidity in his movement. And maybe a lack of recognition as to where he should slip and slide.
High-performing QBs just have a natural instinct about what they should do and where they should go when things go a little off schedule. Been watching a lot of Fran Tarkenton film from the Giants 1967 season. It just takes a few plays to notice how flexible and fluid he is in the pocket. Whether its "vision", "instinct" or something else, I don't quite know. But I'm afraid Daniel Jones just has a void in this aspect of his game.
but I'm not sure how many QB's are going to look comfortable and smooth , 4 weeks into a brand new system.
The key is, do we see steady improvement over the next few weeks. It's a no brainer that he should play in all 3 pre-season games and hopefully most of the game.
Can you separate poor QB play from what you describe as “subpar” receiver play and vice versa? Or are you just asking players to excel at what they can control?
I hope people caught one of the most important comments made by Sy... Aaron Robinson looks pretty good. Also, Feliciano.
Feliciano and Mark Glowinski! Just hoping these guys can calm things down in the interior and allow Daniel Jones a little space to work with! That would be big.
[Holmes] did not have the feel for coverage against Robinson and Kadarius Toney the way Julian Love did. Love made anticipated breaks on the ball a couple of times and was fast enough for man coverage against all of the NYG receivers.
I've been skeptical of Love's speed, even at FS, let alone CB. Hope I've been wrong. But again, the qualifier that hangs over all these DB characterizations: they're going against a sub par group.
There is a scenario where Daboll/Kafka design an offense that generates big chunk plays and breaks open WRs 10-15 yards downfield, making it a bit easier for Daniel Jones to manage the game.
when the defense was getting good and the offense, mainly the QB, was a pile of shit.
It's a process. Teams can't go from worst to first in just one season. And if the Giants make a decision to move on from Daniel Jones after this season... well, that's all part of the process!
Jimmy G to the Giants and here is one HUGE reason on the 9ers side of things.
They will have to trade Jimmy or cut him. If they cut him NOBODY will claim that salary. This he is a free agent and ripe for the Rams to sign. The 9ers may take far less for him and even pay some $$$$ to make sure he doesn't end up with the Rams.
I am not saying we should but, at this point Jones is Jones. He will do enough to tease here and there but never enough for he himself to be the difference on the winning side. Truthfully, outside of his solid performances against Washington over the years, his W/L record would look even more putrid than it does already.
There is a scenario where Daboll/Kafka design an offense that generates big chunk plays and breaks open WRs 10-15 yards downfield, making it a bit easier for Daniel Jones to manage the game.
"this isn't going to work" is simple and yet damning...
This has always been the problem with Jones, re: Golladay. He either doesn't know when and where to throw the ball to him, or he can't do it. That's why KG got angry in the Washington game. In that game Jones was holding the ball too long. Jones is scared to throw the ball into coverage, and by the time he throws it, it's late, and harder for KG to make the play. Jones is often late and inaccurate.
Great news about Thibs. Kid seems ahead of schedule.
Encouraging about Thibs. Discouraging about Jones.
Jones' slow processing in the pocket has been a very consistent problem and it leads to most of the other problems (fumbles, etc.).
And it doesn't seem to be going away.
Oh, and thanks for the great report Sy.
Honestly, the bigger concern is the inaccurate throws. He is who he is in terms of mental quickness on the field (lacks winning instinct) but the missing throws when he does have time is more worrisome because that takes even basic game manager off the table.
There is a scenario where Daboll/Kafka design an offense that generates big chunk plays and breaks open WRs 10-15 yards downfield, making it a bit easier for Daniel Jones to manage the game.
They could. But there are fundamental flaws in Jones' game that either get fixed or he has to go.
Encouraging about Thibs. Discouraging about Jones.
Jones' slow processing in the pocket has been a very consistent problem and it leads to most of the other problems (fumbles, etc.).
And it doesn't seem to be going away.
Oh, and thanks for the great report Sy.
Honestly, the bigger concern is the inaccurate throws. He is who he is in terms of mental quickness on the field (lacks winning instinct) but the missing throws when he does have time is more worrisome because that takes even basic game manager off the table.
Jones has been inaccurate since he entered the league, especially on short ti intermediate throws.
Encouraging about Thibs. Discouraging about Jones.
Jones' slow processing in the pocket has been a very consistent problem and it leads to most of the other problems (fumbles, etc.).
And it doesn't seem to be going away.
Oh, and thanks for the great report Sy.
Honestly, the bigger concern is the inaccurate throws. He is who he is in terms of mental quickness on the field (lacks winning instinct) but the missing throws when he does have time is more worrisome because that takes even basic game manager off the table.
I wonder if the internal clock in his head is messed up because of the awful offensive lines he's been playing behind - going back even to college.
Encouraging about Thibs. Discouraging about Jones.
Jones' slow processing in the pocket has been a very consistent problem and it leads to most of the other problems (fumbles, etc.).
And it doesn't seem to be going away.
Oh, and thanks for the great report Sy.
Maybe one thing Daboll/Kafka can do for Daniel Jones is always have a least one security blanket on pass plays with either Wan'Dale, Kadarius or Saquon hovering over the middle or slanting 10 yards downfield.
Exciting to read about Thibs. Glowinski, Feliciano, Ezeudu, and even Lemieux sound like they could be upgrades over what we trotted out on the iOL last year.
If Jones isn't gonna be the guy lets at least hope he can do enough to allow for proper evals on the line and WRs.
Encouraging about Thibs. Discouraging about Jones.
Jones' slow processing in the pocket has been a very consistent problem and it leads to most of the other problems (fumbles, etc.).
And it doesn't seem to be going away.
Oh, and thanks for the great report Sy.
Honestly, the bigger concern is the inaccurate throws. He is who he is in terms of mental quickness on the field (lacks winning instinct) but the missing throws when he does have time is more worrisome because that takes even basic game manager off the table.
I wonder if the internal clock in his head is messed up because of the awful offensive lines he's been playing behind - going back even to college.
I would agree with that if he were throwing constant dump offs quickly- ie pressure or anticipated pressure causes his clock to be much faster. Holding it forever may be the result of early years always having to wait for a long time for guys to get open but truthfully I just think he is not at all instinctual. The reason he isnt a Rodgers, Mahomes, Allen is he lacks that gut instinct, the quick I am going to make this play mentality and it costs us under pressure and inside the 20. It is why Jones always seems better earlier in games between the 30's but horrible as the game progresses and the field becomes more between the 35 on our side and 45 on theirs. As the field or moment tightens Jones's lack of gut instinct and quick twitch response kills our offense.
What has me concerned are the criticisms of Neal. But learning how to play OT in the NFL is hard and takes time.
I liked the praise of Glowinski - finally, a real NFL player at that position - but notice Sy’s disparaging comment about the WR corps. That was surprising. Kadarious, where art thou?
Thibs coverage skills shouldn’t surprise anyone. It’s a difference maker for him. He’s a true linebacker, not just an edge rusher. He dropped in coverage regularly at OU. He’s a true 3-down, versatile linebacker.
I've said repeatedly that Mara will have to be dragged away from Jones kicking and screaming. I think Schoen and Daboll understood that from the get-go, and knew that they'd have to ride out this year with Jones as their starting QB.
Next year it will be a different story. Barring a miracle, Jones will be gone and they'll be able to draft his successor.
I'm not worried about Neal. He's a rookie. AT struggled as a rookie too.
The ? I'd love to know is how much rope Daboll is going to give Jones. If he continues to struggle & TT looks better-granted against backups-what are we doing? I know the John factor, but if we're in the business of winning games...well, I don't know. I'm talking aloud. It is just concerning to see these reports about a QB going into his 4th season.
I think there’s a good chance Lemieux is replaced by Ezeudu by the end of camp. My prediction right now, barring more injury is Thomas/Ezeudu/Feliciano/Glowinski/Neal and Lemieux the primary backup at all three interior positions.
The offense, well, for now it is what it is. I just hope they can play well enough so the defense isn't completely gassed by halftime.
is a better pass blocker right now than Evan Neal.
Not great news regarding Daniel Jones. Regrettably, Sy's observations are exactly the ones we've all been worried about for a couple of years.
The Giants ain't going from worst to Super Bowl in Year One of the Schoen / Daboll regime. A lot of trial-and-error needs to take place, and the two may well decide there's too much error in Daniel Jones' game.
On a happier note, sure sounds like Kayvon Thibodeaux is poised to make the rookie highlight film!
As for Jones, he's the same guy he’s always been, which is never going yo be good enough. He’s a backup masquerading as a starter.
I'm with you River Mike! Rooting for this young man. But I just can't shake my vision of him in the pocket. He stands tall; he stands strong; but... but... but... there's a noticeable lack of fluidity in his movement. And maybe a lack of recognition as to where he should slip and slide.
High-performing QBs just have a natural instinct about what they should do and where they should go when things go a little off schedule. Been watching a lot of Fran Tarkenton film from the Giants 1967 season. It just takes a few plays to notice how flexible and fluid he is in the pocket. Whether its "vision", "instinct" or something else, I don't quite know. But I'm afraid Daniel Jones just has a void in this aspect of his game.
Shockey.
The key is, do we see steady improvement over the next few weeks. It's a no brainer that he should play in all 3 pre-season games and hopefully most of the game.
also, you get the feel that it's going to be a monster year for Dexter Lawrence.
I agree about Dex. Him & Leo seem primed for monster years.
Feliciano and Mark Glowinski! Just hoping these guys can calm things down in the interior and allow Daniel Jones a little space to work with! That would be big.
Maybe, would be nice, but you left out one of the most important qualifiers in that selection about AR:
One that stood out for me was Zyon Gilbert. Another was Darrian Beavers.
Quote:
"...this isn’t going to work".
There is a scenario where Daboll/Kafka design an offense that generates big chunk plays and breaks open WRs 10-15 yards downfield, making it a bit easier for Daniel Jones to manage the game.
It's a process. Teams can't go from worst to first in just one season. And if the Giants make a decision to move on from Daniel Jones after this season... well, that's all part of the process!
They will have to trade Jimmy or cut him. If they cut him NOBODY will claim that salary. This he is a free agent and ripe for the Rams to sign. The 9ers may take far less for him and even pay some $$$$ to make sure he doesn't end up with the Rams.
I am not saying we should but, at this point Jones is Jones. He will do enough to tease here and there but never enough for he himself to be the difference on the winning side. Truthfully, outside of his solid performances against Washington over the years, his W/L record would look even more putrid than it does already.
Quote:
Quote:
"...this isn’t going to work".
There is a scenario where Daboll/Kafka design an offense that generates big chunk plays and breaks open WRs 10-15 yards downfield, making it a bit easier for Daniel Jones to manage the game.
"this isn't going to work" is simple and yet damning...
as to Jones, these are the same issues that were noted when he was coming out of Duke.
Jones' slow processing in the pocket has been a very consistent problem and it leads to most of the other problems (fumbles, etc.).
And it doesn't seem to be going away.
Oh, and thanks for the great report Sy.
Great news about Thibs. Kid seems ahead of schedule.
Quote:
Encouraging about Thibs. Discouraging about Jones.
Jones' slow processing in the pocket has been a very consistent problem and it leads to most of the other problems (fumbles, etc.).
And it doesn't seem to be going away.
Oh, and thanks for the great report Sy.
Honestly, the bigger concern is the inaccurate throws. He is who he is in terms of mental quickness on the field (lacks winning instinct) but the missing throws when he does have time is more worrisome because that takes even basic game manager off the table.
Beckham.
Quote:
Quote:
"...this isn’t going to work".
There is a scenario where Daboll/Kafka design an offense that generates big chunk plays and breaks open WRs 10-15 yards downfield, making it a bit easier for Daniel Jones to manage the game.
They could. But there are fundamental flaws in Jones' game that either get fixed or he has to go.
(1) He's not processing the play fast enough (could be related to new scheme and complex defense he is facing, but he's had this problem before).
(2) He's not accurate enough (this is on him).
Yeah, burning a top 10 pick on a Duke QB didn't work out for us, did it
Quote:
In comment 15773097 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
Encouraging about Thibs. Discouraging about Jones.
Jones' slow processing in the pocket has been a very consistent problem and it leads to most of the other problems (fumbles, etc.).
And it doesn't seem to be going away.
Oh, and thanks for the great report Sy.
Honestly, the bigger concern is the inaccurate throws. He is who he is in terms of mental quickness on the field (lacks winning instinct) but the missing throws when he does have time is more worrisome because that takes even basic game manager off the table.
Jones has been inaccurate since he entered the league, especially on short ti intermediate throws.
Quote:
In comment 15773097 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
Encouraging about Thibs. Discouraging about Jones.
Jones' slow processing in the pocket has been a very consistent problem and it leads to most of the other problems (fumbles, etc.).
And it doesn't seem to be going away.
Oh, and thanks for the great report Sy.
Honestly, the bigger concern is the inaccurate throws. He is who he is in terms of mental quickness on the field (lacks winning instinct) but the missing throws when he does have time is more worrisome because that takes even basic game manager off the table.
I wonder if the internal clock in his head is messed up because of the awful offensive lines he's been playing behind - going back even to college.
Quote:
Encouraging about Thibs. Discouraging about Jones.
Jones' slow processing in the pocket has been a very consistent problem and it leads to most of the other problems (fumbles, etc.).
And it doesn't seem to be going away.
Oh, and thanks for the great report Sy.
Maybe one thing Daboll/Kafka can do for Daniel Jones is always have a least one security blanket on pass plays with either Wan'Dale, Kadarius or Saquon hovering over the middle or slanting 10 yards downfield.
If Jones isn't gonna be the guy lets at least hope he can do enough to allow for proper evals on the line and WRs.
Quote:
(Other than Barkley) since LT where we had a dominate rookie. Let’s hope it pans out.
Shockey.
OBJ was dominant as a rookie.
(1) He's not processing the play fast enough (could be related to new scheme and complex defense he is facing, but he's had this problem before).
(2) He's not accurate enough (this is on him).
Others seem to disagree, but I thought Jones was quite accurate in his rookie year.
There were obviously other problems.
But his accuracy seems to have regressed since that year, which strikes me as odd because accuracy is normally sort of an innate skill.
Quote:
are two serious problems with Jones right now:
(1) He's not processing the play fast enough (could be related to new scheme and complex defense he is facing, but he's had this problem before).
(2) He's not accurate enough (this is on him).
Others seem to disagree, but I thought Jones was quite accurate in his rookie year.
There were obviously other problems.
But his accuracy seems to have regressed since that year, which strikes me as odd because accuracy is normally sort of an innate skill.
In 2019, Daniel Jones was 24th in the league in completion pct.
Quote:
In comment 15773134 JohnG in Albany said:
Quote:
In comment 15773097 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
Encouraging about Thibs. Discouraging about Jones.
Jones' slow processing in the pocket has been a very consistent problem and it leads to most of the other problems (fumbles, etc.).
And it doesn't seem to be going away.
Oh, and thanks for the great report Sy.
Honestly, the bigger concern is the inaccurate throws. He is who he is in terms of mental quickness on the field (lacks winning instinct) but the missing throws when he does have time is more worrisome because that takes even basic game manager off the table.
I wonder if the internal clock in his head is messed up because of the awful offensive lines he's been playing behind - going back even to college.
I would agree with that if he were throwing constant dump offs quickly- ie pressure or anticipated pressure causes his clock to be much faster. Holding it forever may be the result of early years always having to wait for a long time for guys to get open but truthfully I just think he is not at all instinctual. The reason he isnt a Rodgers, Mahomes, Allen is he lacks that gut instinct, the quick I am going to make this play mentality and it costs us under pressure and inside the 20. It is why Jones always seems better earlier in games between the 30's but horrible as the game progresses and the field becomes more between the 35 on our side and 45 on theirs. As the field or moment tightens Jones's lack of gut instinct and quick twitch response kills our offense.
I liked the praise of Glowinski - finally, a real NFL player at that position - but notice Sy’s disparaging comment about the WR corps. That was surprising. Kadarious, where art thou?
Next year it will be a different story. Barring a miracle, Jones will be gone and they'll be able to draft his successor.
The ? I'd love to know is how much rope Daboll is going to give Jones. If he continues to struggle & TT looks better-granted against backups-what are we doing? I know the John factor, but if we're in the business of winning games...well, I don't know. I'm talking aloud. It is just concerning to see these reports about a QB going into his 4th season.