I thought for sure they were coming to my Knicks. Now, I am very grateful that those guys turned down the Knicks because the Nets were the “cooler” franchise.
However, I don’t think this is an indictment of the NBA. Basketball is that rare sport when one player can make a huge difference. If you get one transcendent talent, your team becomes a championship contender immediately.
So because of that, one transcendent player can dictate where he wants to play and who he wants to play with.
However, this is BS. Durant picked his team. He picked his players. He resigned a monster contract. NOW, he wants out? This is about Durant’s character. Not the character of the league.
And shockingly, the ass clown agrees with Durant and “hates” Nash and Marks.
Marks finally gets fed up with Kyries bullshit and stooped catering to his garbage, so now he hates him. What a circus these two are… Kyrie hates Nash and Marks - ( New Window )
Too damn bad. Durant had a good coach fired because he didn’t want to be coached and he and your other clown Kyrie hand picked Nash. I for one am ecstatic those two are suffering the the consequences of their laughable arrogance
The financial success of the whole operation is disproportionately on their back.
I don't subscribe to the theory the player must want to win at any cost (supposedly a virtue) -- but with the caveat it must be on the team that drafted him, without a good supporting cast, and with coaches and management that aren't very good.
Owners are ultimately responsible for sussing out guys who are buttholes. And make a judgement call if the risk is worth it.
It’s disproportionate? The stars of the league will soon be making $1m per game played, and even the mid level guys will make close to half that. They pick and choose whatever they want to do, still bitch about it after getting everything they want, and ruin franchises on their way out.
I’m all for players making every penny they can but they shouldn’t be running teams and that’s exactly what they are trying to do. There’s no consequences for them and its making for such a poor product, hard to see what’s so great about it. Fans are losing, the league is a joke.
And shockingly, the ass clown agrees with Durant and “hates” Nash and Marks.
Marks finally gets fed up with Kyries bullshit and stooped catering to his garbage, so now he hates him. What a circus these two are… Kyrie hates Nash and Marks - ( New Window )
I struggle to think of a more contemptible person in sports than Kyrie Irving.
It’s disproportionate? The stars of the league will soon be making $1m per game played, and even the mid level guys will make close to half that. They pick and choose whatever they want to do, still bitch about it after getting everything they want, and ruin franchises on their way out.
I’m all for players making every penny they can but they shouldn’t be running teams and that’s exactly what they are trying to do. There’s no consequences for them and its making for such a poor product, hard to see what’s so great about it. Fans are losing, the league is a joke.
- the highest paid players make about half of what you’re describing and won’t be for a long time
- the players have been running the league for as long as you’ve probably been alive or longer, the only difference today is they’re splitting the revenue
- the owners pick who they pay, how much, and for how long — those are the consequences
These are glory years for the NBA. The league is recruiting and showcasing the best talent from around the globe. At no other time has the talent pool been as deep and successful. The last two championship series have been phenomenal. The league is brimming with young stars. The veteran stars are defying age.
And the league is a joke because a handful of star players don’t like their coach or the team they signed with?
RE: I was devastated when the Nets signed KD and Kyrie
I thought for sure they were coming to my Knicks. Now, I am very grateful that those guys turned down the Knicks because the Nets were the “cooler” franchise.
However, I don’t think this is an indictment of the NBA. Basketball is that rare sport when one player can make a huge difference. If you get one transcendent talent, your team becomes a championship contender immediately.
So because of that, one transcendent player can dictate where he wants to play and who he wants to play with.
However, this is BS. Durant picked his team. He picked his players. He resigned a monster contract. NOW, he wants out? This is about Durant’s character. Not the character of the league.
well said. im a nets fan and in total agreement with the above, i hope they extend marks trade kd and move on, but id 100% do it all over again the same way. in the 1 playoff series the 3 stars played together they looked unbeatable and with him and harden on 1 leg they were 1 shoe size from knocking out giannis despite an avalanche of bad luck.
just like harden i think his freak out is much more about an inability to take accountability than anything anyone else did.
Not really. There’s no incentive to play 82 anymore. Top players are in the 60’s now and some played 50s because they are either hurt often or easing coming back because there’s little urgency. Durant and LeBron both played a hair over 50 games and make $40m+. They make almost $1m per game.
Yes the league is a joke. It’s perfectly fine if you love it but asking the question back to me like I’m saying something completely foreign is strange. I don’t know anyone that takes the league seriously. More of my friends like hockey over the nba.
RE: RE: The Celtics started the engineered super team
It's grown from there. The empowerment of these star players is inevitable over time because in the NBA star players have more effect on the outcome of games. remember, these players have capped salaries. Is there any other sport that does that? Why shouldn't they take these capped salaries and then try to engineer the best situation for themselves. If they uncapped the maxes, super teams would end because these guys could get paid just their market value and most teams could only afford one of these top ten superstars because they'd get paid double what they do today.
/end defense of player empowerment
that said, LOL fuck the Nets and KD. They deserve each other.
Disagree. Lebron started this "movement"(no pun intended). The Celtics had Pierce and traded for KG and Allen. Lebron engineered the superteam in Miami and it's set the NBA in a tailspin ever since.
Any "super" team that was built before LeBron pulled his announcement either happened organically through front offices making smart decisions and without a spectacle or there were cases like the 2004 Lakers when aging veterans who were on the verge of irrelevance tried to band together to finally win a ring. We see that model all over sports where aging stars without titles try to tag along for a title. Never before had we seen the league's best player hi-jack free agency, collude with other players and make a spectacle of it as LeBron did.
I used to really appreciate Durant's game. In OKC I actually thought I was watching a "tough" player. Then his team blows a 3-0 series lead against the best team in the league and a month later he joins them. That's Mickey Mouse stuff.
The Nets owner should tell Durant, do whatever you want but you're going nowhere. You're under contract.
Not really. There’s no incentive to play 82 anymore. Top players are in the 60’s now and some played 50s because they are either hurt often or easing coming back because there’s little urgency. Durant and LeBron both played a hair over 50 games and make $40m+. They make almost $1m per game.
Yes the league is a joke. It’s perfectly fine if you love it but asking the question back to me like I’m saying something completely foreign is strange. I don’t know anyone that takes the league seriously. More of my friends like hockey over the nba.
I get your point on games played, I missed that vs. total games.
The league is enjoying unprecedented success and popularity around the globe, so your friend group finding the current state a joke is a little anecdotal.
Just out of curiosity, when was the time the NBA wasn't a joke?
I don't think the NBA is thriving like it should be and I don't think its good that the players run the league. It's a terrible experience for the fans. These guys are entertainers and they are paid handsomely to entertain the fans. Fans don't like when players bounce around every 2-3 years and create these massive super teams. It's not a good thing that they players run the league like this.
it’s clearly for kids and certainly no longer geared towards adults. LeBrons first run in Cleveland was the last time I enjoyed the NBA, so mid to late 2000s. I was actually a big LeBron fan when he was getting started (same age, followed him in high school like many others did). At that time there was a good mix of parity and some really good personalities that were genuine. You got to also see the last of what was left of the big man era. Then came the clown show.
I realize I’m no longer their target audience. But that’s a shame, because I was a die hard NBA fan for 20 years. I won’t put it all on LeBron but he’s responsible for it more than anyone else, by a wide margin.
I don't think the NBA is thriving like it should be and I don't think its good that the players run the league. It's a terrible experience for the fans. These guys are entertainers and they are paid handsomely to entertain the fans. Fans don't like when players bounce around every 2-3 years and create these massive super teams. It's not a good thing that they players run the league like this.
it’s clearly for kids and certainly no longer geared towards adults. LeBrons first run in Cleveland was the last time I enjoyed the NBA, so mid to late 2000s. I was actually a big LeBron fan when he was getting started (same age, followed him in high school like many others did). At that time there was a good mix of parity and some really good personalities that were genuine. You got to also see the last of what was left of the big man era. Then came the clown show.
I realize I’m no longer their target audience. But that’s a shame, because I was a die hard NBA fan for 20 years. I won’t put it all on LeBron but he’s responsible for it more than anyone else, by a wide margin.
I think guys like Curry, Giannis, Tatum, Booker, Jokic and several others are fabulous personalities and great basketball players.
Largely home grown teams have a path to a championship. The Bucks did it, the Celtics and the Suns are on the cusp.
There are handful of buttholes in the NBA, with the clout to call bigger shots. Sometimes it works and sometimes not. I don't like Lebron, KD, and Harden etc. -- but they are becoming increasingly less relevant.
I put the blame on the owners who acquiesce to butthole players.
RE: RE: RE: The Celtics started the engineered super team
It's grown from there. The empowerment of these star players is inevitable over time because in the NBA star players have more effect on the outcome of games. remember, these players have capped salaries. Is there any other sport that does that? Why shouldn't they take these capped salaries and then try to engineer the best situation for themselves. If they uncapped the maxes, super teams would end because these guys could get paid just their market value and most teams could only afford one of these top ten superstars because they'd get paid double what they do today.
/end defense of player empowerment
that said, LOL fuck the Nets and KD. They deserve each other.
Disagree. Lebron started this "movement"(no pun intended). The Celtics had Pierce and traded for KG and Allen. Lebron engineered the superteam in Miami and it's set the NBA in a tailspin ever since.
This is an extremely charitable version of events. It's fun to shit on LeBron and he definitely took it to the next level of mainstream with "the decision", but IMO, it's pretty clear KG and Allen decided to team up with Pierce first. Here's Ainge talking about how he had to convince KG to come in the trade. - ( New Window )
That article doesn’t make that clear at all. What it makes clear is that Boston wanted Garnett, but he was hesitant to approve a trade to a team that he didn’t think could contend. It wasn’t until Boston was able to trade for Allen that Garnett felt like they were a team capable of winning and was then willing to go there. KG wasn’t trying to team up so much as he wasn’t going to take a trade to another situation unless it was one in which he’d be able to try and win a title.
Also, I don’t remember the trio in Boston every trying to hijack the franchise. Lebron and now Durant/Kyrie pretty clearly have moved in free agency with the intent on teaming up with their buddies and then seizing control of the front office decisions.
KD obviously leaked this to try and get public support for this
but I think it’s very unlikely given what’s happened in the NBA that the public in Brooklyn cares enough about these guys to provide that outcry. Good for Tsai for quickly supporting them, even if Nash doesn’t deserve it. I also like how Tsai said he would do what’s best for the Brooklyn Nets which is basically a warning shot to KD that he ain’t trading him until he gets the right value. And I believe Tsai is the kind of guy who would make KD sit.
My issue with Lebron and these superstars are that...
and they make the GMs make these super short sighted deals to cater to their whims. And then when there's nothing left to leverage, they can just moves on to another team.
I don't think the NBA is thriving like it should be and I don't think its good that the players run the league. It's a terrible experience for the fans. These guys are entertainers and they are paid handsomely to entertain the fans. Fans don't like when players bounce around every 2-3 years and create these massive super teams. It's not a good thing that they players run the league like this.
The numbers do not support that view at all.
Can you share these numbers?
RE: RE: RE: The Celtics started the engineered super team
It's grown from there. The empowerment of these star players is inevitable over time because in the NBA star players have more effect on the outcome of games. remember, these players have capped salaries. Is there any other sport that does that? Why shouldn't they take these capped salaries and then try to engineer the best situation for themselves. If they uncapped the maxes, super teams would end because these guys could get paid just their market value and most teams could only afford one of these top ten superstars because they'd get paid double what they do today.
/end defense of player empowerment
that said, LOL fuck the Nets and KD. They deserve each other.
Disagree. Lebron started this "movement"(no pun intended). The Celtics had Pierce and traded for KG and Allen. Lebron engineered the superteam in Miami and it's set the NBA in a tailspin ever since.
Bingo!
Pierce, KG, Allen weren't a super team? Shit, Jordan, Pippen, and Rodman def were. I'm not a Lebron stan but this narrative that he's bad for the game is wrong.
When you acquire James, Durant, or Irving — is it a big surprise when they do something ridiculous or make a move for team control?
It’s not like the players can make teams sign them.
I’m a fan of guys like Leonard, Davis, George, etc. making it known where they want to play and with whom they want to play. Especially if they are willing to make less money to team up.
When management treats players like partners in the operation, it’s good for the sport.
When you acquire James, Durant, or Irving — is it a big surprise when they do something ridiculous or make a move for team control?
It’s not like the players can make teams sign them.
I’m a fan of guys like Leonard, Davis, George, etc. making it known where they want to play and with whom they want to play. Especially if they are willing to make less money to team up.
When management treats players like partners in the operation, it’s good for the sport.
You're killing this thread! Agree with everything.
I don't think the NBA is thriving like it should be and I don't think its good that the players run the league. It's a terrible experience for the fans. These guys are entertainers and they are paid handsomely to entertain the fans. Fans don't like when players bounce around every 2-3 years and create these massive super teams. It's not a good thing that they players run the league like this.
The numbers do not support that view at all.
Can you share these numbers?
In 1998, the finals ratings were 18.7 on average for the series. This year for a marquee matchup it was 6.6. Attendance is down for most teams except the few with good records.
Sure. The NBA had record revenue on the 2021/2022 season in excess of 10B. The NBA had its highest regular season TV viewership last year since 2018.
The NBA related footprint and media impressions are the biggest of any sports league in the world on Instagram.
Basketball itself has the third largest global fanbase behind soccer and cricket, and the NBA had the largest self-reported fan base of any basketball league in the world by a huge margin in 2021.
LeBron was known as “the King” and famously had his mega sneaker deal before he even played one minute in the league.
After his first few years in Cleveland, I never understood the narrative that he just had to leave Cleveland because he was doomed to fail there and everyone felt so sorry for him. LeBron had already been to a finals with Cleveland before he left. Look at what Jordan had to go through. Shaq and Kobe had to experience some losing before they broke through.
The league, and LeBron and those around him all panicked because how can you have a king with no rings? “The Decision” was terrible for the sport.
In 1998, the finals ratings were 18.7 on average for the series. This year for a marquee matchup it was 6.6. Attendance is down for most teams except the few with good records.
Broadcast TV numbers are not how any media company or sports league in 2022 ultimately measure either popularity or financial success. It's only part of much more dynamic media environment. It's a completely different world than nearly 25 years ago.
Attendance on the other hand is typically a good leading indicator and factor to watch. Most analysts I work with caution gleaning too much data from attendance right now, as there is still a Covid impact in the behavior of in-person attendance.
but how much? If LeBron is going to act like a baby when he does win he’d do that anywhere. So should GMs across the league ban LeBron from playing?
Seems like a big cop out especially in a league that’s Star driven and very rarely can teams contend without getting the mercenaries.
So blame whoever you want, the league is what it is and it isn’t very compelling.
Teams make a choice to do business with unpredictable players. Doing business with Lebron James gives and it takes. He has after all delivered a championship to every team with whom he's played.
How do you define mercenary? The 2022 Warriors were largely a home grown core, with the exception of Wiggins. The Celtics the same. The 2021 Bucks and Suns the same, with exception of an aging Chris Paul.
The Vegas odds right now are Boston, Milwaukee, Golden State, Clippers, Suns -- in that order. The only team headlined by veteran acquisitions is LA.
If they move KD they're not going to get equal value (as is the case when moving superstars) and they don't have control of their own picks which is typically a silver lining to moving a star player as you get a bunch of assets and should have higher draft picks to try and rebuild the team by finding the next star.
But they also can't let Marks go because KD wants them to. He's a good GM and those are hard to find. If you let him go you risk whoever your next hire is royally screwing up like past regimes and setting the team back many years.
The best bet imo is to move him for Jaylen Brown if indeed that offer is on the table, even if it doesn't come with more than 1 pick and Derrick White instead of Jaylen Brown. That's still better than any other reported offers and it's unlikely that there's a surprise team/offer out there that would beat it for the Nets current situation.
A Brown/Simmons led team isn't a championship contender but it's probably a playoff team, assuming Simmons looks like the player he was in Philly and hasn't fallen off a cliff. There just isn't another guy available where that would the case.
I bet the Celtics would do Brown, White, and an unprotected first.
That’s a fair deal for KD.
That was their rumored offer, although pick protection wasn't specified. Apparently the Nets declined and asked for Brown, Smart, multiple picks and another rotation player. That tells me they weren't serious about actually moving him but this recent news might change things.
If I am Cs, I don't know if I am trading Brown for a soon to be 34 year old KD who has played 90 games these past 3 seasons.
Oh I definitely agree with you there. The Celtics have a good young core that made the finals last year and got better this offseason. In the best case scenario they're compressing their title window to the next few years. In the worst case scenario, things go south quickly and they're screwed for a few years. Boston also isn't an organization that's going to bend over backwards to make him happy (and it's Tatum's team anyways) so there's a risk he has another temper tantrum and forces his way elsewhere.
prime years ahead of him - but there is some risk with him. There's been some articles recently that get into why he's almost certain to NOT extend his deal prior to unrestricted free agency. Apparently, since his current deal is not a max deal, the dollars he can get via extension are signficantly less than if he waits for free agency.
prime years ahead of him - but there is some risk with him. There's been some articles recently that get into why he's almost certain to NOT extend his deal prior to unrestricted free agency. Apparently, since his current deal is not a max deal, the dollars he can get via extension are signficantly less than if he waits for free agency.
Yeah, it's a similar situation to the one with Dejounte Murray. Spurs didn't want to risk losing him for nothing so they dealt him
we don’t agree on the reasons, no sense arguing about it. But I’m hoping the light at the end of the tunnel is here with LeBron no longer the best player in the game and ditto for Durant. As great as both players are/were the NBA will have a better product without them.
so did MJ. Ahh the 80s, the good old days when everything was swept under the rug.
Larry Bird didn't do it. I wonder why. Couldn't have anything to do with the fact that Boston made all the right moves early on in his career now could it.
as a net fan i still think the phoenix deal makes the most sense
i'd have preferred it with ayton, but bridges and cam johnson signed for 4 years plus a bunch of good picks (since CP3/KD are the ages they are) is a very solid deal.
the nets will actually probably own their own pick this year for the only time in the next 5+ so if there's a year to be in the lotto this is it.
for the Suns that seems like an obvious deal. Bridges is a great role player but their window is now with CP3 and KD makes them a legitimate favorite.
Brown over Bridges as a main piece leans Brown on the court but it's arguable given the contract situations. Boston's picks are worth less but if they came anywhere close to the picks Phoenix could offer I'd take that, but i doubt they would.
Toronto lurking with Barnes is interesting but who knows if KD would be enthusiastic about going there.
These are glory years for the NBA. The league is recruiting and showcasing the best talent from around the globe. At no other time has the talent pool been as deep and successful. The last two championship series have been phenomenal. The league is brimming with young stars. The veteran stars are defying age.
And the league is a joke because a handful of star players don’t like their coach or the team they signed with?
Glory years? The '80s and most of the '90s were the glory years. The NBA exploded thanks to Bird, Magic and Jordan.
Over their six NBA championships, the Jordan Bulls averaged over 25M viewers.
The finals in the '80s of either Lakers, Celtics, Pistons averaged, after the NBA started showing the finals live, 23M+ viewers.
These "glory days" you reference aren't even close to those numbers.
The last five years, for example, the average has been about 12M+.
RE: The Nets are really stuck between a rock and a hard place.
If they move KD they're not going to get equal value (as is the case when moving superstars) and they don't have control of their own picks which is typically a silver lining to moving a star player as you get a bunch of assets and should have higher draft picks to try and rebuild the team by finding the next star.
But they also can't let Marks go because KD wants them to. He's a good GM and those are hard to find. If you let him go you risk whoever your next hire is royally screwing up like past regimes and setting the team back many years.
The best bet imo is to move him for Jaylen Brown if indeed that offer is on the table, even if it doesn't come with more than 1 pick and Derrick White instead of Jaylen Brown. That's still better than any other reported offers and it's unlikely that there's a surprise team/offer out there that would beat it for the Nets current situation.
A Brown/Simmons led team isn't a championship contender but it's probably a playoff team, assuming Simmons looks like the player he was in Philly and hasn't fallen off a cliff. There just isn't another guy available where that would the case.
Make him sit. That is how you regain control of the league. Durant signed a four year deal last year, he freely entered into it. If the Nets can’t get anything remote to his value, Tsai is in a better position to take the loss than KD. These are his last years. He is bound by four years. Tsai will always be a multi billionaire whether or not he trades KD or not.
it’s clearly for kids and certainly no longer geared towards adults. LeBrons first run in Cleveland was the last time I enjoyed the NBA, so mid to late 2000s. I was actually a big LeBron fan when he was getting started (same age, followed him in high school like many others did). At that time there was a good mix of parity and some really good personalities that were genuine. You got to also see the last of what was left of the big man era. Then came the clown show.
I realize I’m no longer their target audience. But that’s a shame, because I was a die hard NBA fan for 20 years. I won’t put it all on LeBron but he’s responsible for it more than anyone else, by a wide margin.
so the league was geared more towards adults in the past but now? How so?
The big man era? Which consisted of (what most would call) boring low post play? And if you enjoy really enjoy skilled big men, how can you not be fascinated by Giannis or Jokic?
Was it not a clown show for much of the 90s and early 2000s when you had mercurial stars and high profile players like Webber, DC, Sheed, Iverson, Steve Francis, Marbury, Carter, etc.?
Were you really a die hard fan for 20 years? If so, how did you engage with the product? Were you watching a favorite team night after night and now you don't?
It sure seems like most of what you dislike about the modern game has been a part of the league for a LONG time. You just weren't aware of it - which is probably the same reason the strong points of the modern game elude you.
F KD.
However, I don’t think this is an indictment of the NBA. Basketball is that rare sport when one player can make a huge difference. If you get one transcendent talent, your team becomes a championship contender immediately.
So because of that, one transcendent player can dictate where he wants to play and who he wants to play with.
However, this is BS. Durant picked his team. He picked his players. He resigned a monster contract. NOW, he wants out? This is about Durant’s character. Not the character of the league.
Marks finally gets fed up with Kyries bullshit and stooped catering to his garbage, so now he hates him. What a circus these two are…
Kyrie hates Nash and Marks - ( New Window )
Too damn bad. Durant had a good coach fired because he didn’t want to be coached and he and your other clown Kyrie hand picked Nash. I for one am ecstatic those two are suffering the the consequences of their laughable arrogance
X infinity.
The financial success of the whole operation is disproportionately on their back.
I don't subscribe to the theory the player must want to win at any cost (supposedly a virtue) -- but with the caveat it must be on the team that drafted him, without a good supporting cast, and with coaches and management that aren't very good.
Owners are ultimately responsible for sussing out guys who are buttholes. And make a judgement call if the risk is worth it.
It’s disproportionate? The stars of the league will soon be making $1m per game played, and even the mid level guys will make close to half that. They pick and choose whatever they want to do, still bitch about it after getting everything they want, and ruin franchises on their way out.
I’m all for players making every penny they can but they shouldn’t be running teams and that’s exactly what they are trying to do. There’s no consequences for them and its making for such a poor product, hard to see what’s so great about it. Fans are losing, the league is a joke.
Marks finally gets fed up with Kyries bullshit and stooped catering to his garbage, so now he hates him. What a circus these two are… Kyrie hates Nash and Marks - ( New Window )
I struggle to think of a more contemptible person in sports than Kyrie Irving.
No sport is like the NBA but star QBs do this shit too.
Nash is probably not a big time NBA HC.
I’m all for players making every penny they can but they shouldn’t be running teams and that’s exactly what they are trying to do. There’s no consequences for them and its making for such a poor product, hard to see what’s so great about it. Fans are losing, the league is a joke.
- the highest paid players make about half of what you’re describing and won’t be for a long time
- the players have been running the league for as long as you’ve probably been alive or longer, the only difference today is they’re splitting the revenue
- the owners pick who they pay, how much, and for how long — those are the consequences
These are glory years for the NBA. The league is recruiting and showcasing the best talent from around the globe. At no other time has the talent pool been as deep and successful. The last two championship series have been phenomenal. The league is brimming with young stars. The veteran stars are defying age.
And the league is a joke because a handful of star players don’t like their coach or the team they signed with?
However, I don’t think this is an indictment of the NBA. Basketball is that rare sport when one player can make a huge difference. If you get one transcendent talent, your team becomes a championship contender immediately.
So because of that, one transcendent player can dictate where he wants to play and who he wants to play with.
However, this is BS. Durant picked his team. He picked his players. He resigned a monster contract. NOW, he wants out? This is about Durant’s character. Not the character of the league.
well said. im a nets fan and in total agreement with the above, i hope they extend marks trade kd and move on, but id 100% do it all over again the same way. in the 1 playoff series the 3 stars played together they looked unbeatable and with him and harden on 1 leg they were 1 shoe size from knocking out giannis despite an avalanche of bad luck.
just like harden i think his freak out is much more about an inability to take accountability than anything anyone else did.
Yes the league is a joke. It’s perfectly fine if you love it but asking the question back to me like I’m saying something completely foreign is strange. I don’t know anyone that takes the league seriously. More of my friends like hockey over the nba.
Quote:
It's grown from there. The empowerment of these star players is inevitable over time because in the NBA star players have more effect on the outcome of games. remember, these players have capped salaries. Is there any other sport that does that? Why shouldn't they take these capped salaries and then try to engineer the best situation for themselves. If they uncapped the maxes, super teams would end because these guys could get paid just their market value and most teams could only afford one of these top ten superstars because they'd get paid double what they do today.
/end defense of player empowerment
that said, LOL fuck the Nets and KD. They deserve each other.
Disagree. Lebron started this "movement"(no pun intended). The Celtics had Pierce and traded for KG and Allen. Lebron engineered the superteam in Miami and it's set the NBA in a tailspin ever since.
This is an extremely charitable version of events. It's fun to shit on LeBron and he definitely took it to the next level of mainstream with "the decision", but IMO, it's pretty clear KG and Allen decided to team up with Pierce first.
Here's Ainge talking about how he had to convince KG to come in the trade. - ( New Window )
Any "super" team that was built before LeBron pulled his announcement either happened organically through front offices making smart decisions and without a spectacle or there were cases like the 2004 Lakers when aging veterans who were on the verge of irrelevance tried to band together to finally win a ring. We see that model all over sports where aging stars without titles try to tag along for a title. Never before had we seen the league's best player hi-jack free agency, collude with other players and make a spectacle of it as LeBron did.
I used to really appreciate Durant's game. In OKC I actually thought I was watching a "tough" player. Then his team blows a 3-0 series lead against the best team in the league and a month later he joins them. That's Mickey Mouse stuff.
The Nets owner should tell Durant, do whatever you want but you're going nowhere. You're under contract.
Yes the league is a joke. It’s perfectly fine if you love it but asking the question back to me like I’m saying something completely foreign is strange. I don’t know anyone that takes the league seriously. More of my friends like hockey over the nba.
I get your point on games played, I missed that vs. total games.
The league is enjoying unprecedented success and popularity around the globe, so your friend group finding the current state a joke is a little anecdotal.
Just out of curiosity, when was the time the NBA wasn't a joke?
I realize I’m no longer their target audience. But that’s a shame, because I was a die hard NBA fan for 20 years. I won’t put it all on LeBron but he’s responsible for it more than anyone else, by a wide margin.
The numbers do not support that view at all.
I realize I’m no longer their target audience. But that’s a shame, because I was a die hard NBA fan for 20 years. I won’t put it all on LeBron but he’s responsible for it more than anyone else, by a wide margin.
I think guys like Curry, Giannis, Tatum, Booker, Jokic and several others are fabulous personalities and great basketball players.
Largely home grown teams have a path to a championship. The Bucks did it, the Celtics and the Suns are on the cusp.
There are handful of buttholes in the NBA, with the clout to call bigger shots. Sometimes it works and sometimes not. I don't like Lebron, KD, and Harden etc. -- but they are becoming increasingly less relevant.
I put the blame on the owners who acquiesce to butthole players.
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In comment 15775015 Heisenberg said:
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It's grown from there. The empowerment of these star players is inevitable over time because in the NBA star players have more effect on the outcome of games. remember, these players have capped salaries. Is there any other sport that does that? Why shouldn't they take these capped salaries and then try to engineer the best situation for themselves. If they uncapped the maxes, super teams would end because these guys could get paid just their market value and most teams could only afford one of these top ten superstars because they'd get paid double what they do today.
/end defense of player empowerment
that said, LOL fuck the Nets and KD. They deserve each other.
Disagree. Lebron started this "movement"(no pun intended). The Celtics had Pierce and traded for KG and Allen. Lebron engineered the superteam in Miami and it's set the NBA in a tailspin ever since.
This is an extremely charitable version of events. It's fun to shit on LeBron and he definitely took it to the next level of mainstream with "the decision", but IMO, it's pretty clear KG and Allen decided to team up with Pierce first. Here's Ainge talking about how he had to convince KG to come in the trade. - ( New Window )
That article doesn’t make that clear at all. What it makes clear is that Boston wanted Garnett, but he was hesitant to approve a trade to a team that he didn’t think could contend. It wasn’t until Boston was able to trade for Allen that Garnett felt like they were a team capable of winning and was then willing to go there. KG wasn’t trying to team up so much as he wasn’t going to take a trade to another situation unless it was one in which he’d be able to try and win a title.
Also, I don’t remember the trio in Boston every trying to hijack the franchise. Lebron and now Durant/Kyrie pretty clearly have moved in free agency with the intent on teaming up with their buddies and then seizing control of the front office decisions.
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I don't think the NBA is thriving like it should be and I don't think its good that the players run the league. It's a terrible experience for the fans. These guys are entertainers and they are paid handsomely to entertain the fans. Fans don't like when players bounce around every 2-3 years and create these massive super teams. It's not a good thing that they players run the league like this.
The numbers do not support that view at all.
Can you share these numbers?
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In comment 15775015 Heisenberg said:
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It's grown from there. The empowerment of these star players is inevitable over time because in the NBA star players have more effect on the outcome of games. remember, these players have capped salaries. Is there any other sport that does that? Why shouldn't they take these capped salaries and then try to engineer the best situation for themselves. If they uncapped the maxes, super teams would end because these guys could get paid just their market value and most teams could only afford one of these top ten superstars because they'd get paid double what they do today.
/end defense of player empowerment
that said, LOL fuck the Nets and KD. They deserve each other.
Disagree. Lebron started this "movement"(no pun intended). The Celtics had Pierce and traded for KG and Allen. Lebron engineered the superteam in Miami and it's set the NBA in a tailspin ever since.
Bingo!
Pierce, KG, Allen weren't a super team? Shit, Jordan, Pippen, and Rodman def were. I'm not a Lebron stan but this narrative that he's bad for the game is wrong.
When you acquire James, Durant, or Irving — is it a big surprise when they do something ridiculous or make a move for team control?
It’s not like the players can make teams sign them.
I’m a fan of guys like Leonard, Davis, George, etc. making it known where they want to play and with whom they want to play. Especially if they are willing to make less money to team up.
When management treats players like partners in the operation, it’s good for the sport.
When you acquire James, Durant, or Irving — is it a big surprise when they do something ridiculous or make a move for team control?
It’s not like the players can make teams sign them.
I’m a fan of guys like Leonard, Davis, George, etc. making it known where they want to play and with whom they want to play. Especially if they are willing to make less money to team up.
When management treats players like partners in the operation, it’s good for the sport.
You're killing this thread! Agree with everything.
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In comment 15775439 Kmed6000 said:
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I don't think the NBA is thriving like it should be and I don't think its good that the players run the league. It's a terrible experience for the fans. These guys are entertainers and they are paid handsomely to entertain the fans. Fans don't like when players bounce around every 2-3 years and create these massive super teams. It's not a good thing that they players run the league like this.
The numbers do not support that view at all.
Can you share these numbers?
In 1998, the finals ratings were 18.7 on average for the series. This year for a marquee matchup it was 6.6. Attendance is down for most teams except the few with good records.
Seems like a big cop out especially in a league that’s Star driven and very rarely can teams contend without getting the mercenaries.
So blame whoever you want, the league is what it is and it isn’t very compelling.
Can you share these numbers?
Sure. The NBA had record revenue on the 2021/2022 season in excess of 10B. The NBA had its highest regular season TV viewership last year since 2018.
The NBA related footprint and media impressions are the biggest of any sports league in the world on Instagram.
Basketball itself has the third largest global fanbase behind soccer and cricket, and the NBA had the largest self-reported fan base of any basketball league in the world by a huge margin in 2021.
LeBron was known as “the King” and famously had his mega sneaker deal before he even played one minute in the league.
After his first few years in Cleveland, I never understood the narrative that he just had to leave Cleveland because he was doomed to fail there and everyone felt so sorry for him. LeBron had already been to a finals with Cleveland before he left. Look at what Jordan had to go through. Shaq and Kobe had to experience some losing before they broke through.
The league, and LeBron and those around him all panicked because how can you have a king with no rings? “The Decision” was terrible for the sport.
Broadcast TV numbers are not how any media company or sports league in 2022 ultimately measure either popularity or financial success. It's only part of much more dynamic media environment. It's a completely different world than nearly 25 years ago.
Attendance on the other hand is typically a good leading indicator and factor to watch. Most analysts I work with caution gleaning too much data from attendance right now, as there is still a Covid impact in the behavior of in-person attendance.
The same Shaq who had been the to finals with the team he was drafted by, only to leave for the higher profile LA Lakers = )
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Shaq and Kobe had to experience some losing before they broke through.
The same Shaq who had been the to finals with the team he was drafted by, only to leave for the higher profile LA Lakers = )
Don't forget Kobe refused to play for the Hornets and wanted to be a Laker so he forced a trade there... all before ever putting on an NBA uniform
Seems like a big cop out especially in a league that’s Star driven and very rarely can teams contend without getting the mercenaries.
So blame whoever you want, the league is what it is and it isn’t very compelling.
Teams make a choice to do business with unpredictable players. Doing business with Lebron James gives and it takes. He has after all delivered a championship to every team with whom he's played.
How do you define mercenary? The 2022 Warriors were largely a home grown core, with the exception of Wiggins. The Celtics the same. The 2021 Bucks and Suns the same, with exception of an aging Chris Paul.
The Vegas odds right now are Boston, Milwaukee, Golden State, Clippers, Suns -- in that order. The only team headlined by veteran acquisitions is LA.
But they also can't let Marks go because KD wants them to. He's a good GM and those are hard to find. If you let him go you risk whoever your next hire is royally screwing up like past regimes and setting the team back many years.
The best bet imo is to move him for Jaylen Brown if indeed that offer is on the table, even if it doesn't come with more than 1 pick and Derrick White instead of Jaylen Brown. That's still better than any other reported offers and it's unlikely that there's a surprise team/offer out there that would beat it for the Nets current situation.
A Brown/Simmons led team isn't a championship contender but it's probably a playoff team, assuming Simmons looks like the player he was in Philly and hasn't fallen off a cliff. There just isn't another guy available where that would the case.
That’s a fair deal for KD.
That’s a fair deal for KD.
That was their rumored offer, although pick protection wasn't specified. Apparently the Nets declined and asked for Brown, Smart, multiple picks and another rotation player. That tells me they weren't serious about actually moving him but this recent news might change things.
Oh I definitely agree with you there. The Celtics have a good young core that made the finals last year and got better this offseason. In the best case scenario they're compressing their title window to the next few years. In the worst case scenario, things go south quickly and they're screwed for a few years. Boston also isn't an organization that's going to bend over backwards to make him happy (and it's Tatum's team anyways) so there's a risk he has another temper tantrum and forces his way elsewhere.
Far from it. A Brown, White, Simmons, Irving core probably wins a playoff series.
Yeah, it's a similar situation to the one with Dejounte Murray. Spurs didn't want to risk losing him for nothing so they dealt him
Larry Bird didn't do it. I wonder why. Couldn't have anything to do with the fact that Boston made all the right moves early on in his career now could it.
the nets will actually probably own their own pick this year for the only time in the next 5+ so if there's a year to be in the lotto this is it.
for the Suns that seems like an obvious deal. Bridges is a great role player but their window is now with CP3 and KD makes them a legitimate favorite.
Brown over Bridges as a main piece leans Brown on the court but it's arguable given the contract situations. Boston's picks are worth less but if they came anywhere close to the picks Phoenix could offer I'd take that, but i doubt they would.
Toronto lurking with Barnes is interesting but who knows if KD would be enthusiastic about going there.
These are glory years for the NBA. The league is recruiting and showcasing the best talent from around the globe. At no other time has the talent pool been as deep and successful. The last two championship series have been phenomenal. The league is brimming with young stars. The veteran stars are defying age.
And the league is a joke because a handful of star players don’t like their coach or the team they signed with?
Glory years? The '80s and most of the '90s were the glory years. The NBA exploded thanks to Bird, Magic and Jordan.
Over their six NBA championships, the Jordan Bulls averaged over 25M viewers.
The finals in the '80s of either Lakers, Celtics, Pistons averaged, after the NBA started showing the finals live, 23M+ viewers.
These "glory days" you reference aren't even close to those numbers.
The last five years, for example, the average has been about 12M+.
But they also can't let Marks go because KD wants them to. He's a good GM and those are hard to find. If you let him go you risk whoever your next hire is royally screwing up like past regimes and setting the team back many years.
The best bet imo is to move him for Jaylen Brown if indeed that offer is on the table, even if it doesn't come with more than 1 pick and Derrick White instead of Jaylen Brown. That's still better than any other reported offers and it's unlikely that there's a surprise team/offer out there that would beat it for the Nets current situation.
A Brown/Simmons led team isn't a championship contender but it's probably a playoff team, assuming Simmons looks like the player he was in Philly and hasn't fallen off a cliff. There just isn't another guy available where that would the case.
Make him sit. That is how you regain control of the league. Durant signed a four year deal last year, he freely entered into it. If the Nets can’t get anything remote to his value, Tsai is in a better position to take the loss than KD. These are his last years. He is bound by four years. Tsai will always be a multi billionaire whether or not he trades KD or not.
I realize I’m no longer their target audience. But that’s a shame, because I was a die hard NBA fan for 20 years. I won’t put it all on LeBron but he’s responsible for it more than anyone else, by a wide margin.
so the league was geared more towards adults in the past but now? How so?
The big man era? Which consisted of (what most would call) boring low post play? And if you enjoy really enjoy skilled big men, how can you not be fascinated by Giannis or Jokic?
Was it not a clown show for much of the 90s and early 2000s when you had mercurial stars and high profile players like Webber, DC, Sheed, Iverson, Steve Francis, Marbury, Carter, etc.?
Were you really a die hard fan for 20 years? If so, how did you engage with the product? Were you watching a favorite team night after night and now you don't?
It sure seems like most of what you dislike about the modern game has been a part of the league for a LONG time. You just weren't aware of it - which is probably the same reason the strong points of the modern game elude you.