i'd have preferred it with ayton, but bridges and cam johnson signed for 4 years plus a bunch of good picks (since CP3/KD are the ages they are) is a very solid deal.
the nets will actually probably own their own pick this year for the only time in the next 5+ so if there's a year to be in the lotto this is it.
for the Suns that seems like an obvious deal. Bridges is a great role player but their window is now with CP3 and KD makes them a legitimate favorite.
Brown over Bridges as a main piece leans Brown on the court but it's arguable given the contract situations. Boston's picks are worth less but if they came anywhere close to the picks Phoenix could offer I'd take that, but i doubt they would.
Toronto lurking with Barnes is interesting but who knows if KD would be enthusiastic about going there.
supposedly Barnes is off the table. If there's a deal with the Raptors, it likely involves two players from the Siakam/FVV/Trent/OG foursome - and then picks. Which is a pretty good haul IMO.
RE: RE: as a net fan i still think the phoenix deal makes the most sense
i'd have preferred it with ayton, but bridges and cam johnson signed for 4 years plus a bunch of good picks (since CP3/KD are the ages they are) is a very solid deal.
the nets will actually probably own their own pick this year for the only time in the next 5+ so if there's a year to be in the lotto this is it.
for the Suns that seems like an obvious deal. Bridges is a great role player but their window is now with CP3 and KD makes them a legitimate favorite.
Brown over Bridges as a main piece leans Brown on the court but it's arguable given the contract situations. Boston's picks are worth less but if they came anywhere close to the picks Phoenix could offer I'd take that, but i doubt they would.
Toronto lurking with Barnes is interesting but who knows if KD would be enthusiastic about going there.
supposedly Barnes is off the table. If there's a deal with the Raptors, it likely involves two players from the Siakam/FVV/Trent/OG foursome - and then picks. Which is a pretty good haul IMO.
Don't think either Barnes or Siakam would be on the table because the goal would be to pair Durant with those two + FVV. Probably still one of the better packages though given the number of picks they can offer and OG is a nice young player.
These are glory years for the NBA. The league is recruiting and showcasing the best talent from around the globe. At no other time has the talent pool been as deep and successful. The last two championship series have been phenomenal. The league is brimming with young stars. The veteran stars are defying age.
And the league is a joke because a handful of star players don’t like their coach or the team they signed with?
Glory years? The '80s and most of the '90s were the glory years. The NBA exploded thanks to Bird, Magic and Jordan.
Over their six NBA championships, the Jordan Bulls averaged over 25M viewers.
The finals in the '80s of either Lakers, Celtics, Pistons averaged, after the NBA started showing the finals live, 23M+ viewers.
These "glory days" you reference aren't even close to those numbers.
The last five years, for example, the average has been about 12M+.
Those were great years no doubt about. The best decades of basketball were the 60s, late 80s/early 90s, and 20s.
Measuring interest and popularity by domestic TV numbers is an incomplete analysis. Basketball and the NBA at large draws eyeballs and engagement across the globe in so many different ways now.
that's my sense since they cheered when he got hurt but who knows.
i think the toronto people who think putting barnes on the table is nuts are nuts. he's a good player but winning ROY is far from a guarantee for anything, i think you have to go back to KD for the last ROY who won an MVP. Barnes is a nice player but i'd bet against him ever getting an MVP vote over his career let alone winning one. KD + keeping Siakam, FVV, OG would give the Raps a legitimate shot at a championship for at least 2 years. They gave up Poetl, Derozan, and a pick for 1 year of Kawhi.
but regardless even with Barnes on the table im not sure that offer is better than a phoenix offer with more futures and a very solid player in Bridges or a Boston offer around Brown. i dont think it's a guarantee Barnes ends up better than Brown (though the extra years of control are a big value).
RE: RE: RE: RE: The Celtics started the engineered super team
It's grown from there. The empowerment of these star players is inevitable over time because in the NBA star players have more effect on the outcome of games. remember, these players have capped salaries. Is there any other sport that does that? Why shouldn't they take these capped salaries and then try to engineer the best situation for themselves. If they uncapped the maxes, super teams would end because these guys could get paid just their market value and most teams could only afford one of these top ten superstars because they'd get paid double what they do today.
/end defense of player empowerment
that said, LOL fuck the Nets and KD. They deserve each other.
Disagree. Lebron started this "movement"(no pun intended). The Celtics had Pierce and traded for KG and Allen. Lebron engineered the superteam in Miami and it's set the NBA in a tailspin ever since.
This is an extremely charitable version of events. It's fun to shit on LeBron and he definitely took it to the next level of mainstream with "the decision", but IMO, it's pretty clear KG and Allen decided to team up with Pierce first. Here's Ainge talking about how he had to convince KG to come in the trade. - ( New Window )
That article doesn’t make that clear at all. What it makes clear is that Boston wanted Garnett, but he was hesitant to approve a trade to a team that he didn’t think could contend. It wasn’t until Boston was able to trade for Allen that Garnett felt like they were a team capable of winning and was then willing to go there. KG wasn’t trying to team up so much as he wasn’t going to take a trade to another situation unless it was one in which he’d be able to try and win a title.
Also, I don’t remember the trio in Boston every trying to hijack the franchise. Lebron and now Durant/Kyrie pretty clearly have moved in free agency with the intent on teaming up with their buddies and then seizing control of the front office decisions.
Again, I'm not saying it's the same as what Kyrie and KD have pulled here or LeBron has pulled a few times. It's not. I'm saying this is the beginning of the change that has led to what we're seeing here. And there's a real low distinction between "but he was hesitant to approve a trade to a team that he didn’t think could contend" and stars picking their teammates. He approved the trade once Ainge told him he could also get Allen. Credit to Ainge for having the vision to see it and pull it off.
& credit to McHale for doing a solid for this old teammate
IVe answered your questions ad nauseam in this thread and others, go read them if you want more. And also ask the same questions to everyone else that feels the same way I do.
I don’t like this version of the NBA. Nothing you say will change that. I’m eager to come back though so hopefully the things I dont like about it will wane in time.
I think the NBA has already turned the corner from the goofy Lebron Decison era, which I thought was cringy. But I will always support and respect the players choosing where and with whom they play.
They get drafted into four years of team control, with only two years of guaranteed money. These are word class athletes, who are the product and the face of the league. When the time comes to choose their circumstances, they deserve the right to pick.
There are a few annoying apples out there. And that might actually just be Lebron and Durant. Those two don’t define the league.
The face of the league is Curry, who is the perfect player. Great personality, loyal AF to GSW, revolutionized the game, and just keeps winning. The future of the game is Booker, Joker, Tatum, and Giannis — who are all great personalities on and off the court.
Lebron James is just some guy who used to be the best, who’s angling for his post-NBA career. KD is just some guy, who’s well, just some guy.
him fire Atkinson, so what's one more coach? And Kyrie has already come out and said him and KD can manage the team. So what's the problem? lol...
They should seriously do this. Tell him, if you want to dictate front office decisions and shift blame, then you can be the player coach and have to answer for the team every night
Lots of people in the league expect a Mitchell trade
He basically cost them the series against Milwaukee in 2021. Having Durant bring the ball up and go one-on-one every possession in the last three minutes was just idiotic.
And Im not a Nets fan. So that is an outsider perspective.
Glory years? The '80s and most of the '90s were the glory years. The NBA exploded thanks to Bird, Magic and Jordan.
Over their six NBA championships, the Jordan Bulls averaged over 25M viewers.
The finals in the '80s of either Lakers, Celtics, Pistons averaged, after the NBA started showing the finals live, 23M+ viewers.
These "glory days" you reference aren't even close to those numbers.
The last five years, for example, the average has been about 12M+.
Those were great years no doubt about. The best decades of basketball were the 60s, late 80s/early 90s, and 20s.
Measuring interest and popularity by domestic TV numbers is an incomplete analysis. Basketball and the NBA at large draws eyeballs and engagement across the globe in so many different ways now.
The NBA's popularity was getting attraction globally in the '80s. And then the '92 Dream Team came along, and the global interest just spiked after the Barcelona Olympics.
So, I am feeling pretty good that if today's viewing options existed back then, the numbers would have been even more enormous. By that time, Jordan was probably more recognizable worldwide than Ali.
Obviously, I can't prove it, but I think there are good reasons to believe so...
RE: Lots of people in the league expect a Mitchell trade
To me, the NBA's peak popularity was probably the second 3peat Bulls when they were like the modern day Beatles. Try explaining to a 25 year old today how big Michael Jordan was in the '90s. He was EVERYWHERE.
I love the NBA though. And it is really bursting with talent nowadays.
Well, look @ Irving in the post game presser following the Cs sweep where he's talking about how him, KD, Marks, & Tsai are going to shape the future of the franchise.
are the teams that allow their stars to habe a say and recruit other players but also know that the GM and Coach run the team..
The problem comes when the player thinks he runs the entire team and franchise it undermines the coach and GM..
there's no best way. the heat got a few rings out of lebron but it ended badly. gs got a few rings out of kd, it ended badly. in the nba you get the best players you can and hope it doesnt blow up.
being in LA or having all time greats like riley/phil slightly improve the odds but there will probably never be another tim duncan.
i do think adam silver is going to try to give teams more power in the next cba but good luck figuring that out.
I am definitely in team 'Player empowerment' but when a guy who signed a 4 year extension last summer is holding a team hostage & demanding either a trade or the GM/HC to be fired...I think something is amiss, and not in a good way.
Measuring interest and popularity by domestic TV numbers is an incomplete analysis. Basketball and the NBA at large draws eyeballs and engagement across the globe in so many different ways now.
The 80s and 90s did not have viewing options as people today have between social media outlets. The game today has so much exposure and the numbers should be higher. The talent today is greater than its ever been but it doesn’t connect to the people like 80s/90s basketball did. I am not going to get into all the reasons why…
But I think the physicality of the game being way down is the number 1 reason the play isn’t as good. It’s like watching street ball with more talented players. It just doesn’t connect with the 40 and over crowd.
I am definitely in team 'Player empowerment' but when a guy who signed a 4 year extension last summer is holding a team hostage & demanding either a trade or the GM/HC to be fired...I think something is amiss, and not in a good way.
no disagreement here. i just dont know what anyone can do if a player is so willing burn a team down.
I'm fascinated to see how this plays out. Tsai doesn't look like he's going to give in to KD's demands & the Nets aren't going to trade KD for peanuts. This could go on for awhile. KD is such a hooper...I really can't see him pulling a Simmons with Philly & just sitting out until he's moved.
What the league can never take away is stars being willing to take less money to play with their friends, and stars being willing to take the risk of shorter contracts to maintain control.
This Durant thing is a bit of an outlier. There aren't many examples of super star signing a four year deal, then complaining their way out.
are the teams that allow their stars to habe a say and recruit other players but also know that the GM and Coach run the team..
The problem comes when the player thinks he runs the entire team and franchise it undermines the coach and GM..
there's no best way. the heat got a few rings out of lebron but it ended badly. gs got a few rings out of kd, it ended badly. in the nba you get the best players you can and hope it doesnt blow up.
being in LA or having all time greats like riley/phil slightly improve the odds but there will probably never be another tim duncan.
i do think adam silver is going to try to give teams more power in the next cba but good luck figuring that out.
Rarely does it end perfectly, but to win a ship the best way his to gice thosr players a say and work in tandem with the Gm and Coach eventually yes it blows up but there cant be a fight between stars and front office
I'm fascinated to see how this plays out. Tsai doesn't look like he's going to give in to KD's demands & the Nets aren't going to trade KD for peanuts. This could go on for awhile. KD is such a hooper...I really can't see him pulling a Simmons with Philly & just sitting out until he's moved.
i think they will take a deal in the next week or so, extend marks, and move on. the rumored boston deal (which was supposedly discussed like 6 weeks ago) was already close. somebody will come in a little higher and then kyrie will get dealt to la.
Measuring interest and popularity by domestic TV numbers is an incomplete analysis. Basketball and the NBA at large draws eyeballs and engagement across the globe in so many different ways now.
The 80s and 90s did not have viewing options as people today have between social media outlets. The game today has so much exposure and the numbers should be higher.
The flip side to that is people didn't have infinite choices and access to entertainment in the 80/90s.
Media companies don't measure the success and popularity of their product in these terms any longer.
I'm a perfect example. I'm 40, big NBA fan, grew up with a Kevin McHale poster in my room.
Fifteen years ago I'd catch probably the majority of 40 NBA games, and some portion of the at least another 20.
Today, given the choice to watch an NBA game in February, or watch Netflix and breeze through the truncated version of the game in 10 mins in the morning, I'm probably choosing Netflix.
I am definitely in team 'Player empowerment' but when a guy who signed a 4 year extension last summer is holding a team hostage & demanding either a trade or the GM/HC to be fired...I think something is amiss, and not in a good way.
I also lean towards the players on most of these issues but agree this one is way out there.
Btw, a lot of kids in their teens and 20s watch more for individual players than teams. It's not necessarily a bad thing, and while I will always be die-hard Knicks, it is fun to appreciate the greatness of players on other teams (as long as they're not torturing the Knicks a la MJ).
I've noticed that too; I have a colleague who is in his late 20s & loves Kawhi Leonard of all people & just roots for him. So he's liked the Spurs, Raps, & now LAC.
The weird thing to me is what happens when said player retires. But I guess he'll just gravitate towards someone else.
I'm old school. I root for the jersey, though there are occasions where I'll root for another team as long as it doesn't impact the Giants/Knicks, ala Tuck when he was a Raider.
not sure if i missed this earlier but this is hilarious if true
this has been such an incoherent tantrum, if you wanted to take KD's side can anyone even explain what that is?
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"The timing of it is also unusual," said Brian Windhorst on Tuesday. "While star players have gotten coaches fired for decades and will get them fired for decades, he didn't express this, as far as I'm aware to the Nets at the end of the season. And he didn't express this to the Nets when he made his trade demand. So doing it now is a maneuver. A maneuver that I don't think worked.
I see it as maybe an attempt for KD to accelerate him being traded, as it is August & if Tsai bended to KD's demand, the Nets wouldn't have a big window to hire a new GM/HC.
What the league can never take away is stars being willing to take less money to play with their friends, and stars being willing to take the risk of shorter contracts to maintain control.
This Durant thing is a bit of an outlier. There aren't many examples of super star signing a four year deal, then complaining their way out.
The Durant thing may be an outlier but it’s literally what this thread was about. Yet you went right into your “I love this player empowerment stuff!”.
keep it quiet, you want out? fine but dont leak it to Woj so the whole world knows you want out..
Tell the Nets, eventually yes it may get leaked but there are ways to keep those talks quiet
The problem with this is that Durant WANTS to appear as powerful and in control. It’s incredibly important to him. So he’ll no he’s not keeping it quiet. He doesn’t give a damn about the Nets. They mean less than nothing to him
RE: RE: I think KD has played this wrong from the start
keep it quiet, you want out? fine but dont leak it to Woj so the whole world knows you want out..
Tell the Nets, eventually yes it may get leaked but there are ways to keep those talks quiet
The problem with this is that Durant WANTS to appear as powerful and in control. It’s incredibly important to him. So he’ll no he’s not keeping it quiet. He doesn’t give a damn about the Nets. They mean less than nothing to him
But if you really want out, coming out publicly kills all leverage, if you keep it quoet he is probably already traded
RE: I think KD has played this wrong from the start
KD is a top 15ish player of all time. But this is the shit-along with him signing with a Warriors juggernaut-that people are going to remember.
I love KD as a player. He is amazing. But the dude comes across soft AF.
Durant is perpetually unhappy and a chronic bellyacher.
He was with a terrific team at OKC but couldn't make it work. So, he bailed for Golden State. He won titles with GS and played with a good group of guys. But he couldn't make that work. So, he bailed for the Brooklyn to play with one of his best friends, Irving. And now he's been able to make that work.
I have a hard time putting him in the top twenty...because I'm holding this Nets debacle against him.
What the league can never take away is stars being willing to take less money to play with their friends, and stars being willing to take the risk of shorter contracts to maintain control.
This Durant thing is a bit of an outlier. There aren't many examples of super star signing a four year deal, then complaining their way out.
The Durant thing may be an outlier but it’s literally what this thread was about. Yet you went right into your “I love this player empowerment stuff!”.
I absolutely love players having the reigns. I was responding to the posts bemoaning Durant as evidence the league was terrible. It's not.
I'm 100% right. You must have missed the rest of my first post.
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Owners are ultimately responsible for sussing out guys who are buttholes. And make a judgement call if the risk is worth it.
not the only reason, but definitely one of them. No doubt in my mind. Him having the reigns is not a fun experience other than the comedic value. Ditto LeBron. Ditto Irving.
What the league can never take away is stars being willing to take less money to play with their friends, and stars being willing to take the risk of shorter contracts to maintain control.
This Durant thing is a bit of an outlier. There aren't many examples of super star signing a four year deal, then complaining their way out.
Anthony Davis did it just a couple of years ago, so it isn’t that much of an outlier.
I think KD realizes he has no leverage (unlike AD when he held out, KD is 34 and can’t afford to play his bluff by holding out), and is making these demands to try and force the Nets’ hands.
As Hollinger notes in today’s Atlantic, the Nets best bet may be to wait until mid season, when this summer’s FA’s can be dealt. Then revisit the PHO offer with Ayton. Nets should be in no hurry to deal him, they hold the upper hand.
the nets will actually probably own their own pick this year for the only time in the next 5+ so if there's a year to be in the lotto this is it.
for the Suns that seems like an obvious deal. Bridges is a great role player but their window is now with CP3 and KD makes them a legitimate favorite.
Brown over Bridges as a main piece leans Brown on the court but it's arguable given the contract situations. Boston's picks are worth less but if they came anywhere close to the picks Phoenix could offer I'd take that, but i doubt they would.
Toronto lurking with Barnes is interesting but who knows if KD would be enthusiastic about going there.
supposedly Barnes is off the table. If there's a deal with the Raptors, it likely involves two players from the Siakam/FVV/Trent/OG foursome - and then picks. Which is a pretty good haul IMO.
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i'd have preferred it with ayton, but bridges and cam johnson signed for 4 years plus a bunch of good picks (since CP3/KD are the ages they are) is a very solid deal.
the nets will actually probably own their own pick this year for the only time in the next 5+ so if there's a year to be in the lotto this is it.
for the Suns that seems like an obvious deal. Bridges is a great role player but their window is now with CP3 and KD makes them a legitimate favorite.
Brown over Bridges as a main piece leans Brown on the court but it's arguable given the contract situations. Boston's picks are worth less but if they came anywhere close to the picks Phoenix could offer I'd take that, but i doubt they would.
Toronto lurking with Barnes is interesting but who knows if KD would be enthusiastic about going there.
supposedly Barnes is off the table. If there's a deal with the Raptors, it likely involves two players from the Siakam/FVV/Trent/OG foursome - and then picks. Which is a pretty good haul IMO.
Don't think either Barnes or Siakam would be on the table because the goal would be to pair Durant with those two + FVV. Probably still one of the better packages though given the number of picks they can offer and OG is a nice young player.
Quote:
These are glory years for the NBA. The league is recruiting and showcasing the best talent from around the globe. At no other time has the talent pool been as deep and successful. The last two championship series have been phenomenal. The league is brimming with young stars. The veteran stars are defying age.
And the league is a joke because a handful of star players don’t like their coach or the team they signed with?
Glory years? The '80s and most of the '90s were the glory years. The NBA exploded thanks to Bird, Magic and Jordan.
Over their six NBA championships, the Jordan Bulls averaged over 25M viewers.
The finals in the '80s of either Lakers, Celtics, Pistons averaged, after the NBA started showing the finals live, 23M+ viewers.
These "glory days" you reference aren't even close to those numbers.
The last five years, for example, the average has been about 12M+.
Those were great years no doubt about. The best decades of basketball were the 60s, late 80s/early 90s, and 20s.
Measuring interest and popularity by domestic TV numbers is an incomplete analysis. Basketball and the NBA at large draws eyeballs and engagement across the globe in so many different ways now.
that's my sense since they cheered when he got hurt but who knows.
i think the toronto people who think putting barnes on the table is nuts are nuts. he's a good player but winning ROY is far from a guarantee for anything, i think you have to go back to KD for the last ROY who won an MVP. Barnes is a nice player but i'd bet against him ever getting an MVP vote over his career let alone winning one. KD + keeping Siakam, FVV, OG would give the Raps a legitimate shot at a championship for at least 2 years. They gave up Poetl, Derozan, and a pick for 1 year of Kawhi.
but regardless even with Barnes on the table im not sure that offer is better than a phoenix offer with more futures and a very solid player in Bridges or a Boston offer around Brown. i dont think it's a guarantee Barnes ends up better than Brown (though the extra years of control are a big value).
Quote:
In comment 15775022 Kmed6000 said:
Quote:
In comment 15775015 Heisenberg said:
Quote:
It's grown from there. The empowerment of these star players is inevitable over time because in the NBA star players have more effect on the outcome of games. remember, these players have capped salaries. Is there any other sport that does that? Why shouldn't they take these capped salaries and then try to engineer the best situation for themselves. If they uncapped the maxes, super teams would end because these guys could get paid just their market value and most teams could only afford one of these top ten superstars because they'd get paid double what they do today.
/end defense of player empowerment
that said, LOL fuck the Nets and KD. They deserve each other.
Disagree. Lebron started this "movement"(no pun intended). The Celtics had Pierce and traded for KG and Allen. Lebron engineered the superteam in Miami and it's set the NBA in a tailspin ever since.
This is an extremely charitable version of events. It's fun to shit on LeBron and he definitely took it to the next level of mainstream with "the decision", but IMO, it's pretty clear KG and Allen decided to team up with Pierce first. Here's Ainge talking about how he had to convince KG to come in the trade. - ( New Window )
That article doesn’t make that clear at all. What it makes clear is that Boston wanted Garnett, but he was hesitant to approve a trade to a team that he didn’t think could contend. It wasn’t until Boston was able to trade for Allen that Garnett felt like they were a team capable of winning and was then willing to go there. KG wasn’t trying to team up so much as he wasn’t going to take a trade to another situation unless it was one in which he’d be able to try and win a title.
Also, I don’t remember the trio in Boston every trying to hijack the franchise. Lebron and now Durant/Kyrie pretty clearly have moved in free agency with the intent on teaming up with their buddies and then seizing control of the front office decisions.
Again, I'm not saying it's the same as what Kyrie and KD have pulled here or LeBron has pulled a few times. It's not. I'm saying this is the beginning of the change that has led to what we're seeing here. And there's a real low distinction between "but he was hesitant to approve a trade to a team that he didn’t think could contend" and stars picking their teammates. He approved the trade once Ainge told him he could also get Allen. Credit to Ainge for having the vision to see it and pull it off.
I thought the LBJ move to Miami was weak AF in the moment. I still do.
But KD going to the Warriors, after they won 73 games & had just lost the Finals in 7...that weakness will be tough to top.
I don’t like this version of the NBA. Nothing you say will change that. I’m eager to come back though so hopefully the things I dont like about it will wane in time.
They get drafted into four years of team control, with only two years of guaranteed money. These are word class athletes, who are the product and the face of the league. When the time comes to choose their circumstances, they deserve the right to pick.
There are a few annoying apples out there. And that might actually just be Lebron and Durant. Those two don’t define the league.
The face of the league is Curry, who is the perfect player. Great personality, loyal AF to GSW, revolutionized the game, and just keeps winning. The future of the game is Booker, Joker, Tatum, and Giannis — who are all great personalities on and off the court.
Lebron James is just some guy who used to be the best, who’s angling for his post-NBA career. KD is just some guy, who’s well, just some guy.
They should seriously do this. Tell him, if you want to dictate front office decisions and shift blame, then you can be the player coach and have to answer for the team every night
Where do talks stand? seemed like we were getting close..
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By labor day
Where do talks stand? seemed like we were getting close..
Probably around the same as they were when the Utah reporter made the comment. Ainge is trying to make Leon blink
And Im not a Nets fan. So that is an outsider perspective.
Glory years? The '80s and most of the '90s were the glory years. The NBA exploded thanks to Bird, Magic and Jordan.
Over their six NBA championships, the Jordan Bulls averaged over 25M viewers.
The finals in the '80s of either Lakers, Celtics, Pistons averaged, after the NBA started showing the finals live, 23M+ viewers.
These "glory days" you reference aren't even close to those numbers.
The last five years, for example, the average has been about 12M+.
Those were great years no doubt about. The best decades of basketball were the 60s, late 80s/early 90s, and 20s.
Measuring interest and popularity by domestic TV numbers is an incomplete analysis. Basketball and the NBA at large draws eyeballs and engagement across the globe in so many different ways now.
The NBA's popularity was getting attraction globally in the '80s. And then the '92 Dream Team came along, and the global interest just spiked after the Barcelona Olympics.
So, I am feeling pretty good that if today's viewing options existed back then, the numbers would have been even more enormous. By that time, Jordan was probably more recognizable worldwide than Ali.
Obviously, I can't prove it, but I think there are good reasons to believe so...
Yeah, no rush. It is still August 9th.
I love the NBA though. And it is really bursting with talent nowadays.
The problem comes when the player thinks he runs the entire team and franchise it undermines the coach and GM..
The problem comes when the player thinks he runs the entire team and franchise it undermines the coach and GM..
there's no best way. the heat got a few rings out of lebron but it ended badly. gs got a few rings out of kd, it ended badly. in the nba you get the best players you can and hope it doesnt blow up.
being in LA or having all time greats like riley/phil slightly improve the odds but there will probably never be another tim duncan.
i do think adam silver is going to try to give teams more power in the next cba but good luck figuring that out.
Measuring interest and popularity by domestic TV numbers is an incomplete analysis. Basketball and the NBA at large draws eyeballs and engagement across the globe in so many different ways now.
The 80s and 90s did not have viewing options as people today have between social media outlets. The game today has so much exposure and the numbers should be higher. The talent today is greater than its ever been but it doesn’t connect to the people like 80s/90s basketball did. I am not going to get into all the reasons why…
But I think the physicality of the game being way down is the number 1 reason the play isn’t as good. It’s like watching street ball with more talented players. It just doesn’t connect with the 40 and over crowd.
no disagreement here. i just dont know what anyone can do if a player is so willing burn a team down.
What the league can never take away is stars being willing to take less money to play with their friends, and stars being willing to take the risk of shorter contracts to maintain control.
This Durant thing is a bit of an outlier. There aren't many examples of super star signing a four year deal, then complaining their way out.
Quote:
are the teams that allow their stars to habe a say and recruit other players but also know that the GM and Coach run the team..
The problem comes when the player thinks he runs the entire team and franchise it undermines the coach and GM..
there's no best way. the heat got a few rings out of lebron but it ended badly. gs got a few rings out of kd, it ended badly. in the nba you get the best players you can and hope it doesnt blow up.
being in LA or having all time greats like riley/phil slightly improve the odds but there will probably never be another tim duncan.
i do think adam silver is going to try to give teams more power in the next cba but good luck figuring that out.
Rarely does it end perfectly, but to win a ship the best way his to gice thosr players a say and work in tandem with the Gm and Coach eventually yes it blows up but there cant be a fight between stars and front office
i think they will take a deal in the next week or so, extend marks, and move on. the rumored boston deal (which was supposedly discussed like 6 weeks ago) was already close. somebody will come in a little higher and then kyrie will get dealt to la.
I've said it before...if I'm the Cs, I'm not trading Brown for KD. Insane as that might sound.
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Measuring interest and popularity by domestic TV numbers is an incomplete analysis. Basketball and the NBA at large draws eyeballs and engagement across the globe in so many different ways now.
The 80s and 90s did not have viewing options as people today have between social media outlets. The game today has so much exposure and the numbers should be higher.
The flip side to that is people didn't have infinite choices and access to entertainment in the 80/90s.
Media companies don't measure the success and popularity of their product in these terms any longer.
I'm a perfect example. I'm 40, big NBA fan, grew up with a Kevin McHale poster in my room.
Fifteen years ago I'd catch probably the majority of 40 NBA games, and some portion of the at least another 20.
Today, given the choice to watch an NBA game in February, or watch Netflix and breeze through the truncated version of the game in 10 mins in the morning, I'm probably choosing Netflix.
I also lean towards the players on most of these issues but agree this one is way out there.
Btw, a lot of kids in their teens and 20s watch more for individual players than teams. It's not necessarily a bad thing, and while I will always be die-hard Knicks, it is fun to appreciate the greatness of players on other teams (as long as they're not torturing the Knicks a la MJ).
The weird thing to me is what happens when said player retires. But I guess he'll just gravitate towards someone else.
I'm old school. I root for the jersey, though there are occasions where I'll root for another team as long as it doesn't impact the Giants/Knicks, ala Tuck when he was a Raider.
The whole thing is so strange to me.
What the league can never take away is stars being willing to take less money to play with their friends, and stars being willing to take the risk of shorter contracts to maintain control.
This Durant thing is a bit of an outlier. There aren't many examples of super star signing a four year deal, then complaining their way out.
The Durant thing may be an outlier but it’s literally what this thread was about. Yet you went right into your “I love this player empowerment stuff!”.
Tell the Nets, eventually yes it may get leaked but there are ways to keep those talks quiet
I love KD as a player. He is amazing. But the dude comes across soft AF.
Tell the Nets, eventually yes it may get leaked but there are ways to keep those talks quiet
The problem with this is that Durant WANTS to appear as powerful and in control. It’s incredibly important to him. So he’ll no he’s not keeping it quiet. He doesn’t give a damn about the Nets. They mean less than nothing to him
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keep it quiet, you want out? fine but dont leak it to Woj so the whole world knows you want out..
Tell the Nets, eventually yes it may get leaked but there are ways to keep those talks quiet
The problem with this is that Durant WANTS to appear as powerful and in control. It’s incredibly important to him. So he’ll no he’s not keeping it quiet. He doesn’t give a damn about the Nets. They mean less than nothing to him
But if you really want out, coming out publicly kills all leverage, if you keep it quoet he is probably already traded
Tell the Nets, eventually yes it may get leaked but there are ways to keep those talks quiet
My issue is he signed that extension just last summer. He has no leverage. Such a bad look for Durant.
I love KD as a player. He is amazing. But the dude comes across soft AF.
He is completely soft, every move he has made in his career is because he is soft..
I love KD as a player. He is amazing. But the dude comes across soft AF.
Durant is perpetually unhappy and a chronic bellyacher.
He was with a terrific team at OKC but couldn't make it work. So, he bailed for Golden State. He won titles with GS and played with a good group of guys. But he couldn't make that work. So, he bailed for the Brooklyn to play with one of his best friends, Irving. And now he's been able to make that work.
I have a hard time putting him in the top twenty...because I'm holding this Nets debacle against him.
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I'm not sure how Silver can empower teams more.
What the league can never take away is stars being willing to take less money to play with their friends, and stars being willing to take the risk of shorter contracts to maintain control.
This Durant thing is a bit of an outlier. There aren't many examples of super star signing a four year deal, then complaining their way out.
The Durant thing may be an outlier but it’s literally what this thread was about. Yet you went right into your “I love this player empowerment stuff!”.
I absolutely love players having the reigns. I was responding to the posts bemoaning Durant as evidence the league was terrible. It's not.
I'm 100% right. You must have missed the rest of my first post.
What the league can never take away is stars being willing to take less money to play with their friends, and stars being willing to take the risk of shorter contracts to maintain control.
This Durant thing is a bit of an outlier. There aren't many examples of super star signing a four year deal, then complaining their way out.
Anthony Davis did it just a couple of years ago, so it isn’t that much of an outlier.
I think KD realizes he has no leverage (unlike AD when he held out, KD is 34 and can’t afford to play his bluff by holding out), and is making these demands to try and force the Nets’ hands.
As Hollinger notes in today’s Atlantic, the Nets best bet may be to wait until mid season, when this summer’s FA’s can be dealt. Then revisit the PHO offer with Ayton. Nets should be in no hurry to deal him, they hold the upper hand.