I’d be willing to bet a large sum of money that DJ won’t be the guy moving forward. That being said, who do you think is the best option? I’m sure Young and Stroud will put up highlights and numbers but I’m not sure I trust Ohio St. and Alabama QB track records when playing in Sundays.
If Kafka calls the plays, all my “bets” are off..
He has a lot of physical talent and was a high draft pick, and I don't think there is anyway we can evaluate him yet because of the terrible team he has had around him.
https://gbnreport.com/2023-qb-preview/
Thus, the two-year deal for Tyrod. They reached in 2019 for a QB, rather not repeat the mistake.
Interesting phrase - "sure thing". That is the highest of bars.
The last QB that met that standard for me was Luck. I was really young when Elway was at Stanford, so I can only go by what I have read from most experts on him - he was another "sure thing" lock.
I couldn't believe what I was seeing from Mahomes at Texas Tech. He was doing things that were rare. But the wildness was the wildcard. Had you told me he was going to go under the tutelage of Reid, I think he would have been a "sure thing" bet for me.
In other words, and I'm sure you know this, meeting that expectation is very, very unlikely. So, basically any QB we select is going to come with concerns.
Agree - Williams is the real deal. I was on his bandwagon last year when he took over for Rattler.
I saw Williams play in high school at Gonzaga in DC. He definitely had the goods.
So whomever they pick likely have the same personality as his predecessors, Bland.
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Looks like a relatively deep crop but not at the top, the best QBs in 2023 are not looking like sure things in the NFL to me.
Interesting phrase - "sure thing". That is the highest of bars.
The last QB that met that standard for me was Luck. I was really young when Elway was at Stanford, so I can only go by what I have read from most experts on him - he was another "sure thing" lock.
I couldn't believe what I was seeing from Mahomes at Texas Tech. He was doing things that were rare. But the wildness was the wildcard. Had you told me he was going to go under the tutelage of Reid, I think he would have been a "sure thing" bet for me.
In other words, and I'm sure you know this, meeting that expectation is very, very unlikely. So, basically any QB we select is going to come with concerns.
At this point, I want a QB to prove it to the brass that he's got it, on the field and off, and not watch them talk themselves into another kid who doesn't have it. Bad enough watching them draft Jones at #6 and then skip over Herbert.
Tyler van Dyke is possibly most accurate QB on this list, IMO, but he's still very raw and inexperienced. We'll see how he does and hopefully he brings the U back to prominence.
Good job on your analysis, but I'm a little confused about van Dyke's lack of experience. He has far more experience than Richardson and some other guys on the list. If healthy, he'll have 22+ starts by the end of the season.
I am one who subscribes to the old Parcells theory that you don't take a QB who has a year or less of starts, but in this day and age, 25 starts is the most you're likely to get out of a top college QB.
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In comment 15775849 JonC said:
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Looks like a relatively deep crop but not at the top, the best QBs in 2023 are not looking like sure things in the NFL to me.
Interesting phrase - "sure thing". That is the highest of bars.
The last QB that met that standard for me was Luck. I was really young when Elway was at Stanford, so I can only go by what I have read from most experts on him - he was another "sure thing" lock.
I couldn't believe what I was seeing from Mahomes at Texas Tech. He was doing things that were rare. But the wildness was the wildcard. Had you told me he was going to go under the tutelage of Reid, I think he would have been a "sure thing" bet for me.
In other words, and I'm sure you know this, meeting that expectation is very, very unlikely. So, basically any QB we select is going to come with concerns.
At this point, I want a QB to prove it to the brass that he's got it, on the field and off, and not watch them talk themselves into another kid who doesn't have it. Bad enough watching them draft Jones at #6 and then skip over Herbert.
So wait, they drafted Jones in ‘19 and he had a decent rookie year under Shurmur save for the fumbles that generally can be cleaned up. Yet somehow, ONE YEAR after a pretty good rookie year, we should have scuttled DJ, passed over AT and taken Herbert? Do you know of ANY team that would have done that after ONE YEAR? I don’t.
Interesting phrase - "sure thing". That is the highest of bars.
The last QB that met that standard for me was Luck. I was really young when Elway was at Stanford, so I can only go by what I have read from most experts on him - he was another "sure thing" lock.
I couldn't believe what I was seeing from Mahomes at Texas Tech. He was doing things that were rare. But the wildness was the wildcard. Had you told me he was going to go under the tutelage of Reid, I think he would have been a "sure thing" bet for me.
In other words, and I'm sure you know this, meeting that expectation is very, very unlikely. So, basically any QB we select is going to come with concerns.
At this point, I want a QB to prove it to the brass that he's got it, on the field and off, and not watch them talk themselves into another kid who doesn't have it. Bad enough watching them draft Jones at #6 and then skip over Herbert.
I hear you. But you know just as well as me it would have been completely against their nature to make such a bold move for Herbert.
Throws like this are haunting... ;)
Herbert v NYG - ( New Window )
Jones under Shurmur had a few good games, performances he hasn't really come close to repeating. It's not all purely because of the talent around him, there are a handful of basic fundamental QB skills he simply doesn't possess. NFL defensive coordinators know how to defend him and the Giants, and bringing back many of the same skill players isn't a good sign either. This team is in rebuild mode.
Had they drafted smarter in 2019, and I said this then too, don't force it, see what QB prospects are there in 2020. Low and behold, there was Herbert. This isn't revisionist history ...
That was an incredible move by Keim.
I don't care how much Kingsbury loved Murray in college, the brass balls were ALL Keim in trusting a first time coach and realizing Rosen wasn't the answer.
So wait, they drafted Jones in ‘19 and he had a decent rookie year under Shurmur save for the fumbles that generally can be cleaned up. Yet somehow, ONE YEAR after a pretty good rookie year, we should have scuttled DJ, passed over AT and taken Herbert? Do you know of ANY team that would have done that after ONE YEAR? I don’t.
Agreed, likely very few in history.
And certainly not our moron GM who probably assumed he struck gold with DJ...
But, it was doubling down on a mistake is my point.
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So wait, they drafted Jones in ‘19 and he had a decent rookie year under Shurmur save for the fumbles that generally can be cleaned up. Yet somehow, ONE YEAR after a pretty good rookie year, we should have scuttled DJ, passed over AT and taken Herbert? Do you know of ANY team that would have done that after ONE YEAR? I don’t.
Agreed, likely very few in history.
And certainly not our moron GM who probably assumed he struck gold with DJ...
😎
So wait, they drafted Jones in ‘19 and he had a decent rookie year under Shurmur save for the fumbles that generally can be cleaned up. Yet somehow, ONE YEAR after a pretty good rookie year, we should have scuttled DJ, passed over AT and taken Herbert? Do you know of ANY team that would have done that after ONE YEAR? I don’t.
It would have been a bold move for sure. But a move that would have been justifiable based on the incredible plus tools Herbert has.
But, it was doubling down on a mistake is my point.
exponentialing down on mistakes...
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So wait, they drafted Jones in ‘19 and he had a decent rookie year under Shurmur save for the fumbles that generally can be cleaned up. Yet somehow, ONE YEAR after a pretty good rookie year, we should have scuttled DJ, passed over AT and taken Herbert? Do you know of ANY team that would have done that after ONE YEAR? I don’t.
It would have been a bold move for sure. But a move that would have been justifiable based on the incredible plus tools Herbert has.
Tools are important, but there needs to be a tool box as well. Although DG knew about Herbert, with an OL that couldn’t block against a peewee flag football team he thought Herbert would not produce any better than Jones. Josh Rosen is not an apt comparison because Daniel Jones’s numbers outside of fumbles far and away dwarf Rosen’s production as a rookie. I would argue that while Jones pick looks bad with hindsight, the only player drafted close to him that plays a premium position and was almost universally on a higher tier was Kentucky EDGE Josh Allen. After Allen the draft dropped off to about 15-20 guys ranked similarly. The bigger fault was thinking Eli had more than a season left in him. At #2 you select Josh Allen or Sam Darnold and let him sit for a year a la Patrick Mahomes. I still think Darnold could have been a better QB had the Jets not screwed him up to the point that Daniel Jones is better than him. He had a great preseason so the Jets anointed him the QB and he could not correct his flaws while running for his life. If you are fine with either you take Cleveland’s offer and pick whomever is there at 4 or draft Quentin Nelson to block for your future QB.
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In comment 15775906 Big Blue '56 said:
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So wait, they drafted Jones in ‘19 and he had a decent rookie year under Shurmur save for the fumbles that generally can be cleaned up. Yet somehow, ONE YEAR after a pretty good rookie year, we should have scuttled DJ, passed over AT and taken Herbert? Do you know of ANY team that would have done that after ONE YEAR? I don’t.
It would have been a bold move for sure. But a move that would have been justifiable based on the incredible plus tools Herbert has.
Tools are important, but there needs to be a tool box as well. Although DG knew about Herbert, with an OL that couldn’t block against a peewee flag football team he thought Herbert would not produce any better than Jones. Josh Rosen is not an apt comparison because Daniel Jones’s numbers outside of fumbles far and away dwarf Rosen’s production as a rookie. I would argue that while Jones pick looks bad with hindsight, the only player drafted close to him that plays a premium position and was almost universally on a higher tier was Kentucky EDGE Josh Allen. After Allen the draft dropped off to about 15-20 guys ranked similarly. The bigger fault was thinking Eli had more than a season left in him. At #2 you select Josh Allen or Sam Darnold and let him sit for a year a la Patrick Mahomes. I still think Darnold could have been a better QB had the Jets not screwed him up to the point that Daniel Jones is better than him. He had a great preseason so the Jets anointed him the QB and he could not correct his flaws while running for his life. If you are fine with either you take Cleveland’s offer and pick whomever is there at 4 or draft Quentin Nelson to block for your future QB.
If only DG could have seen into the future, and seen Herbert produce with an OL just as bad as the one Jones played behind. Crazy
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In comment 15776051 bw in dc said:
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In comment 15775906 Big Blue '56 said:
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So wait, they drafted Jones in ‘19 and he had a decent rookie year under Shurmur save for the fumbles that generally can be cleaned up. Yet somehow, ONE YEAR after a pretty good rookie year, we should have scuttled DJ, passed over AT and taken Herbert? Do you know of ANY team that would have done that after ONE YEAR? I don’t.
It would have been a bold move for sure. But a move that would have been justifiable based on the incredible plus tools Herbert has.
Tools are important, but there needs to be a tool box as well. Although DG knew about Herbert, with an OL that couldn’t block against a peewee flag football team he thought Herbert would not produce any better than Jones. Josh Rosen is not an apt comparison because Daniel Jones’s numbers outside of fumbles far and away dwarf Rosen’s production as a rookie. I would argue that while Jones pick looks bad with hindsight, the only player drafted close to him that plays a premium position and was almost universally on a higher tier was Kentucky EDGE Josh Allen. After Allen the draft dropped off to about 15-20 guys ranked similarly. The bigger fault was thinking Eli had more than a season left in him. At #2 you select Josh Allen or Sam Darnold and let him sit for a year a la Patrick Mahomes. I still think Darnold could have been a better QB had the Jets not screwed him up to the point that Daniel Jones is better than him. He had a great preseason so the Jets anointed him the QB and he could not correct his flaws while running for his life. If you are fine with either you take Cleveland’s offer and pick whomever is there at 4 or draft Quentin Nelson to block for your future QB.
If only DG could have seen into the future, and seen Herbert produce with an OL just as bad as the one Jones played behind. Crazy
Herbert did NOT play behind an OL as bad as ours. Not even close, imv
Tools are important, but there needs to be a tool box as well. Although DG knew about Herbert, with an OL that couldn’t block against a peewee flag football team he thought Herbert would not produce any better than Jones. Josh Rosen is not an apt comparison because Daniel Jones’s numbers outside of fumbles far and away dwarf Rosen’s production as a rookie. I would argue that while Jones pick looks bad with hindsight, the only player drafted close to him that plays a premium position and was almost universally on a higher tier was Kentucky EDGE Josh Allen. After Allen the draft dropped off to about 15-20 guys ranked similarly. The bigger fault was thinking Eli had more than a season left in him. At #2 you select Josh Allen or Sam Darnold and let him sit for a year a la Patrick Mahomes. I still think Darnold could have been a better QB had the Jets not screwed him up to the point that Daniel Jones is better than him. He had a great preseason so the Jets anointed him the QB and he could not correct his flaws while running for his life. If you are fine with either you take Cleveland’s offer and pick whomever is there at 4 or draft Quentin Nelson to block for your future QB.
Yet, ironically, Herbert lit it up his rookie year despite the Chargers having one of the worst pass protecting OLs in the NFL. I think Herbert is such a transcendent talent that he would have very productive here, too.
I hear you on the Josh Allen/DE POV. To me, however, the bigger issue was overrating Jones to begin with. Outside of Murray (picked at #1), that 2019 QB class looks dreadful. I've said many times that Jones was a panic and hope pick - DG panicked that Jones wouldn't last until #17 and hoped he was seeing Eli, V2.
To me, so much of this could have avoided if an understanding of positional value was applied in the 2018 draft.
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...see where they fall in the draft pecking order, eh? At this point, this is just more chin music.
Ok that’s cool that’s your view. Maybe then don’t participate in these threads until you’ve seen where they’ve fallen in the pecking order?
Keaton, this BMac is a loser. Don't lose sleep on his idiocy.
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In comment 15775208 Big Blue '56 said:
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In comment 15775195 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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In comment 15775133 Big Blue '56 said:
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DO IT!
BB56, I take you as a big DJ fan. If so...why? What have you seen that makes you think he is the long term answer @ QB? I'm legitimately asking.
I think he has the tools to do well under Daboll. He finally has an OL and if SB is as healthy now as has been reported, he’s going to be huge for DJ, especially given how Daboll will spread him out. I think Toney and Wan’dale will be unstoppable under Daboll.
Im curious, what tools do you see w DJ to think its a slam dunk with Daboll??
Already mentioned them countless times in the last year. Fruitless to mention them yet again. You’ll just have to see whether or not he’s what most of you think or some of us think under Daboll..
Thank you
Herbert overcame it...
And yet, there the chargers OL was. Right there w/ the Giants OL. Maybe not below, but they were not any better
In Herbert's rookie year, he was playing for first time OC in the NFL (Shane Steichen). And his HC was Anthony Lynn. So, Herbert wasn't surrounded by any coaching royalty.
Then last season, Herbert's second, he had his second OC (Joe Lombardi) because Steichen left for the Eagles. Oh, and he had a new in HC (Brandon Staley), who is a defensive minded coach.
Two years in the NFL with two first time OCs. And Herbert has never missed a beat.
Unless Tua has a breakout year, and the Dolphins have loaded up on the offense and have a promising HC in McDaniel, not taking Herbert will haunt the Dolphins for a long, long time.
Apparently, Flores really wanted him, too.
Dave Te Scouting Report on Daniel Jones - ( New Window )
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and the rest are very raw or off the streets, it’s kinda tough to put any OL beneath ours, imo
And yet, there the chargers OL was. Right there w/ the Giants OL. Maybe not below, but they were not any better
Ummm SD OL last year was insanely good.
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In comment 15776171 Big Blue '56 said:
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and the rest are very raw or off the streets, it’s kinda tough to put any OL beneath ours, imo
And yet, there the chargers OL was. Right there w/ the Giants OL. Maybe not below, but they were not any better
Ummm SD OL last year was insanely good.
what about for Herberts first two years??
OL has to gel with zero depth.
WRs are sketchy, overpaid and injury prone.
Jones is now a headcase imo.
CBs are terrible, hoping Robinson can be good, I just hope he's not a mess.
I think they have a top 3 pick and it will be a QB.
Thus, the two-year deal for Tyrod. They reached in 2019 for a QB, rather not repeat the mistake.
I really hate to say it, but I have a feeling that after the preseason, it won't be clear cut who the starting QB will be. I think Taylor is much better than the previous backup QB's they've had, and he may be better suited for this offense with a rookie at RT.