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NFT: Better Call Saul S6 Ep12: Waterworks (SPOILERS!)

shockeyisthebest8056 : 8/9/2022 2:31 am
So we finally learn what happened to Kim during and post Breaking Bad. Like Walt, Jesse, and Jimmy, she ends up stuck in purgatory. Walt was alone without his family in Granite State. Jesse was a meth cook slave. Jimmy was living out the rest of his life as a schnook in Omaha. And Kim was living an utterly boring life with a job outside of being a lawyer and infinitely below her talent level.

Speaking of Jesse, HOLY SHIT. What a scene with Kim! Kim got Combo off the hook for a juvenile crime? Maybe his life turns out differently if he has to face the consequences of his actions earlier. Same goes for Emilio. Anything had to be better than dying of chemical asphyxiation in a rolling meth lab.

I have a feeling Kim comes back next week when Jimmy gets caught. I guess he spurred her on to confess to Howard’s wife. Kinda fucked up that there’s no physical evidence and all possible witnesses are dead with the exception of Jimmy.
Yup, table is set for the finale.  
BlackLight : 8/9/2022 5:24 am : link
Jimmy gets caught and extradited back to New Mexico, where he faces the music for his part in Heisenberg's meth empire. Kim's affidavit forces him to face his part in Howard's death, and forces a reunion between them. Not sure how it resolves. I guess they both face legal charges with that Bruce Williams guy defending them.

I'm glad that Carol Burnett ultimately was written to be more than just hotshot casting. They gave her something more substantial than just being a clueless old lady.

Since we never got a scene in Breaking Bad with Jesse and Walt Jr., it's nice we got one with him and Kim.
......  
Route 9 : 8/9/2022 6:09 am : link
Lol. Jesse's voice is so weird. Guy on the wrong side of 40 playing a 24 year old drug dealer. He grew up right before our very eyes!

Nice to know Kim defended Combo for the Baby Jesus nativity scene incident.
......  
Route 9 : 8/9/2022 6:29 am : link
Who the fuck cares about Carol Burnett?

What a stupid way to waste a character like Lalo and have it come down to this. I was saying Saul was better than Breaking Bad but this was before Lalo's death. I take that back lol

Some old granny is going to take help take down one of the best characters of all-time?

Should be Lalo vs Saul mano-a-mano right now. Kind of a dud.
......  
Route 9 : 8/9/2022 6:32 am : link
Or Bill Burr vs Saul in the finale lol
Kind of weak down the stretch  
weeg in the bronx : 8/9/2022 7:59 am : link
Kim has a change or heart after six years? Really? Over one Saul call? Saul takes the fall because he can't let just one mark slip away - and because he lingers too long in the guys house? Saul - the guy who timed the routs in the store to maximize the loot - does that? The car crash? Carol Burnett goes Miss Marple? And whatever search engine she is using is excellent.

All told, its going out with a whimper. And in annoying B&W.
RE: Kind of weak down the stretch  
Route 9 : 8/9/2022 8:17 am : link
In comment 15775406 weeg in the bronx said:
Quote:
Kim has a change or heart after six years? Really? Over one Saul call? Saul takes the fall because he can't let just one mark slip away - and because he lingers too long in the guys house? Saul - the guy who timed the routs in the store to maximize the loot - does that? The car crash? Carol Burnett goes Miss Marple? And whatever search engine she is using is excellent.

All told, its going out with a whimper. And in annoying B&W.


Yep. Sad. I was digging into seasons 3-6 but this last half has just been a bore.
......  
Route 9 : 8/9/2022 8:19 am : link
I still like my Bill Burr idea way more
RE: Kind of weak down the stretch  
wigs in nyc : 8/9/2022 8:49 am : link
In comment 15775406 weeg in the bronx said:
Quote:
Kim has a change or heart after six years? Really? Over one Saul call? Saul takes the fall because he can't let just one mark slip away - and because he lingers too long in the guys house? Saul - the guy who timed the routs in the store to maximize the loot - does that? The car crash? Carol Burnett goes Miss Marple? And whatever search engine she is using is excellent.

All told, its going out with a whimper. And in annoying B&W.


It wasn’t a ‘change of heart’ - i think it’s possible that the enciting thing in that cal was Kim learning that Mike Ehrmentraut is, in fact, dead. He just sort of up and disappeared, and Jimmy is one of only a few people left alive privvy to that information. With that news sort of clearing, along with Jimmy’s call juxtaposed against her ‘Yep’ life, was the final straw for her.

The Lalo stuff was great, but this show has always been a character study of Jimmy and Kim and their relationship at its core.

I think Jimmy being found out by a Youtubing grandma speaks to a larger truth about our time - in that through the interconnectedness of the internet and technology it’s nearly impossible fot anyone to ‘disappear’, and though we’re granted the illusion of anonymity on the internet it frequently works quite in the opposite. The world catches up - slowy, but it does - to reveal what people would hide.
RE: RE: Kind of weak down the stretch  
Route 9 : 8/9/2022 8:58 am : link
In comment 15775437 wigs in nyc said:
Quote:
I think Jimmy being found out by a Youtubing grandma speaks to a larger truth about our time - in that through the interconnectedness of the internet and technology it’s nearly impossible fot anyone to ‘disappear’, and though we’re granted the illusion of anonymity on the internet it frequently works quite in the opposite. The world catches up - slowy, but it does - to reveal what people would hide.


He could've just Paulie Walnuts her right there and have been on his way.

Bring back Huell and have him need to use Saul's bathroom and that would've been 100x funnier.
.  
Kyle in NY : 8/9/2022 9:06 am : link
Can understand how the last two Gene episodes fell a bit flat in the wake of the incredible conclusion of the "Jimmy era." Still interesting though. With that said, I thought that was a phenomenal episode last night. Having Kim back in the mix was played perfectly. What a performance by Rhea Seehorn, two different times without any words at all. On the shuttle from the airport of course, but also in Saul's office, heart broken at what he'd become. I was blown away.
Gus was more meticulous than Saul  
Bold Ruler : Mod : 8/9/2022 9:18 am : link
And look what happened to him. The prospect of finally ending Hector was too much for him and despite even his best efforts, he went down. I think Saul goes down as well and in his case, it might have been set off by talking to Kim.
Love it when Kim is on the tube  
5BowlsSoon : 8/9/2022 9:26 am : link
Admittedly, i Lost interest with the Jimmy/Saul/Gene character after Lalo died and moved away. His downward spiral was predictable, to me at least. And his mention of “Albuquerque “ to Carol Burnett felt contrived. No way he lets that slip.

The finale should be pretty predictable too- Like many others, I think it’s pretty obvious Jimmy goes to prison….not sure what happens to Kim. She seems to want to suffer consequences for her bad choices too, so she may want to spend some time in the slammer too. Not sure though…if Jimmy doesn’t testify against her they have no evidence to convict her unless she testifies against herself, which of course, she doesn’t have to do. Jimmy may not want to, which is what I’m thinking. So, if pressed, I would say NO PRISON TIME FOR KIM, ONLY JIMMY.
RE: Gus was more meticulous than Saul  
Route 9 : 8/9/2022 9:26 am : link
In comment 15775459 Bold Ruler said:
Quote:
And look what happened to him. The prospect of finally ending Hector was too much for him and despite even his best efforts, he went down. I think Saul goes down as well and in his case, it might have been set off by talking to Kim.


Yeah but Gus getting blown up at a fucking nursing home was certainly an iconic scene and it's still talked about to this day.

Saul running out of some old lady's house? Oh, the memories.
......  
Route 9 : 8/9/2022 9:28 am : link
Getting his face blown off (literally) and fixing his tie like a bad ass
I think the Albuquerque slip was perfectly natural  
oghwga : 8/9/2022 9:32 am : link
He was excited to be Saul again and riffing in full lawyer mode. Painful to watch Kim in Florida watching the amazing race but it looks like actions are going to have consequences.
RE: Gus was more meticulous than Saul  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 8/9/2022 9:38 am : link
In comment 15775459 Bold Ruler said:
Quote:
And look what happened to him. The prospect of finally ending Hector was too much for him and despite even his best efforts, he went down. I think Saul goes down as well and in his case, it might have been set off by talking to Kim.


Every character on BBI universe has their downfall caused by their own choices… greed, ego, revenge, powerlust, etc. The normally methodical Gus allowed his desire for revenge against Hector Salamanca to overwhelm the same spidey sense that made him long game Lalo with the gun at the lab site. Greed and love of the scam will be Jimmy’s downfall for the second time. Kim’s love of the scam and anger with Howard over him criticizing her being with Jimmy eventually led to Howard’s death and Kim leaving everything she loved.
Wasn't Jimmy McGill  
fkap : 8/9/2022 11:41 am : link
the con man? and a small time one at that? And his arrest was for shitting in a sun roof?

Saul Goodman was a shady lawyer wanted for money laundering. Damn good search engine that picks up con man in connection with Saul. I didn't expect Gene to kill Momma, but he's been acting out of character for a while. Of course, Gene was way off character from Saul, which I guess was intentional, but the actions of the post Lalo arc seem contrived and off base.

Why did Jeff crash the car? Couldn't he have just driven away? Did he drink some of the laced water?

The finale is set up well, but it took an unnecessarily long time getting here. Haven't felt the magic since Howard died, and that includes the Lalo-Gus showdown episode. Most of it is filler tying up loose ends that really don't need to be tied up, doing stuff that really doesn't need to be done, milking a few more episodes out of a show that should have ended already.
Kind of agree with the crowd, a great show is limping to  
mfsd : 8/9/2022 12:47 pm : link
the finish.

I did like Carol Burnett being the one to out Jimmy/Saul/Gene, although that was very predictable IMO, between showing her learning how to use YouTube and seeing Gene with her son out by the garage late at night

Not sure how Kim’s story wraps, except it appears they both end up back in Albuquerque

The really issue is, there aren’t any story lines I’m that invested in anymore. Everyone from the BB universe is now gone in this future timeline. Chuck, Howard, Nacho all gone from the pre-BB storyline. I love Saul, but honestly don’t really care if he ends up in jail or not at this point

I agree that once they settled the great Gus/Lalo conflict, the show’s fizzled

Maybe the finale will surprise us, we’ll see
We will see Walter one final time.  
Optimus-NY : 8/9/2022 1:48 pm : link
Bryan Cranston said that they (he and Aaron Paul) filmed three times: once together (see last week's episode titled, "Breaking Bad"), once with only Aaron Paul (this week's episode titles, "Waterworks"), and finally once with only Bryan Cranston (which must be next week's series finale titled, "Saul Gone"). We'll wrap this up in another week, but I agree with one of the posters above who, forgive me if I'm mistaken, said the magic was gone after Lalo's death.
......  
Route 9 : 8/9/2022 3:08 pm : link
That's all anyone really cares about at this point is the Breaking Bad characters showing up back on the screen


Bring back Bill Burr!!
speaking for myself  
fkap : 8/9/2022 4:33 pm : link
I care (or more accurately, I'm interested in seeing) what happens to Jimmy/Saul/Gene. Unfortunately, it's become a one note song. It's been too short a time to create a Gene universe I care about, so it's a drawn out process to get to the end. When Jimmy arc ended with Kim leaving, I opined that the last 4 episodes were going to be either rushed, or too little action dragged out. I had doubts they could finish up strong/even when they completely closed Jimmy/Saul arc. IMO, it turned out to be dragged out too long.

But, how does one watch 6 seasons of a show, and not care how the main character ends up?
RE: speaking for myself  
BlackLight : 8/9/2022 4:42 pm : link
In comment 15775991 fkap said:
Quote:


But, how does one watch 6 seasons of a show, and not care how the main character ends up?


Ozark turned this trick in 4/5 seasons, so credit to Gilligan for pushing the envelope.
A friend who is a lover of BCS  
Stan in LA : 8/9/2022 5:19 pm : link
Has hated the last 3 episodes.
Should not have been 6 seasons long  
Route 9 : 8/9/2022 6:00 pm : link
The show should've been two seasons, three, tops.
RE: A friend who is a lover of BCS  
John In CO : 8/9/2022 6:03 pm : link
In comment 15776036 Stan in LA said:
Quote:
Has hated the last 3 episodes.


Alot of people were loved the whole Jimmy/Kim thing and were hoping for a happy ending. Wellllll.....dont think thats happening.
RE: speaking for myself  
mfsd : 8/9/2022 6:12 pm : link
In comment 15775991 fkap said:
Quote:
I care (or more accurately, I'm interested in seeing) what happens to Jimmy/Saul/Gene. Unfortunately, it's become a one note song. It's been too short a time to create a Gene universe I care about, so it's a drawn out process to get to the end. When Jimmy arc ended with Kim leaving, I opined that the last 4 episodes were going to be either rushed, or too little action dragged out. I had doubts they could finish up strong/even when they completely closed Jimmy/Saul arc. IMO, it turned out to be dragged out too long.

But, how does one watch 6 seasons of a show, and not care how the main character ends up?


OK maybe saying “don’t care” isn’t quite right…really just that I’ve loved Saul all along, but the second half of this season has kind of dulled how much I care about him. I’m of course curious to see how they write it to the finish. maybe he’ll pull off one last scam to go out his own way. Perhaps somehow saving Kim in the end to redeem himself
It does feel like the show  
BlackLight : 8/9/2022 6:16 pm : link
reached its natural end when Kim left Jimmy.
......  
Route 9 : 8/9/2022 6:16 pm : link
Bring back Bill Burr!!
I go against the grain  
fkap : 8/9/2022 6:39 pm : link
I think Kim was far worse for Jimmy than the other way around. Jimmy pulled small scale cons until Kim amped him up, and then destroyed him by leaving, turning him into a jaded man. He was a lawyer who cut corners and schemed his way to victory. He saw the system as rigged, and had no problems breaking the law in ways that struck back at it (money laundering). Ultimately, though, he is a good guy (all that con and lawbreaking aside). Kim is the one who urged him to go against his nature and destroy Howard. Kim couldn't handle the fallout from her actions and dragged Jimmy down with her.

I don't see Kim as a sympathetic character. Even if Jimmy is bad, she doesn't become good. She's the cause of her own misfortunes. Any blame of Jimmy on that score is misguided. She turned away from an interview to win funding for doing good to return and make sure Howard went down.
RE: A friend who is a lover of BCS  
Alan W : 8/9/2022 6:44 pm : link
In comment 15776036 Stan in LA said:
Quote:
Has hated the last 3 episodes.


me too. Can't wait til the damn series ends.
RE: I go against the grain  
Optimus-NY : 8/9/2022 7:03 pm : link
In comment 15776117 fkap said:
Quote:
I think Kim was far worse for Jimmy than the other way around. Jimmy pulled small scale cons until Kim amped him up, and then destroyed him by leaving, turning him into a jaded man. He was a lawyer who cut corners and schemed his way to victory. He saw the system as rigged, and had no problems breaking the law in ways that struck back at it (money laundering). Ultimately, though, he is a good guy (all that con and lawbreaking aside). Kim is the one who urged him to go against his nature and destroy Howard. Kim couldn't handle the fallout from her actions and dragged Jimmy down with her.

I don't see Kim as a sympathetic character. Even if Jimmy is bad, she doesn't become good. She's the cause of her own misfortunes. Any blame of Jimmy on that score is misguided. She turned away from an interview to win funding for doing good to return and make sure Howard went down.


Good analysis. I agree with her having a negative effect on Jimmy.
RE: ......  
OBJ_AllDay : 8/9/2022 8:22 pm : link
In comment 15775371 Route 9 said:
Quote:
Lol. Jesse's voice is so weird. Guy on the wrong side of 40 playing a 24 year old drug dealer. He grew up right before our very eyes!

Nice to know Kim defended Combo for the Baby Jesus nativity scene incident.


Very true. But Crazy 8 looked the same as the BB days!
Jimmy’s essential dna  
thrunthrublue : 8/9/2022 8:59 pm : link
Known first to his brother……then again to all who relate to him is that jimmy is nothing more than crooked..…an above average crook, but none the less….crooked. Wait till the cops find those stolen watches at his home…….how will he ever fast talk his way out of the two tiered mess he is in, with kim’ s mea culpa and his betrayal of carol Burnett’s son….feels like he is heading to a final scene in prison, representing convicts as their in house lawyer, sort of like the ending to the producers!
Im in the BCS>BB camp  
Gmanfandan : 8/10/2022 12:01 am : link
And I was REALLY looking forward to learning about Gene and seeing his story unfold.

When the full Gene episodes rolled out I was excited - but - as has been pointed out - they didnt do enough Gene over the years to invest us when we needed investing.

So - one of my favorite shows of all time has disappointed over the last 3 weeks but Im still a huge fan and cant wait to see how Vince and Co. wrap this all up.
I wonder if they had originally planned on more episodes  
steve in ky : 8/10/2022 12:11 am : link
exploring the Gene character but then when Bob Odenkirk had his heart attack they had to cut it back some?
......  
Route 9 : 8/10/2022 12:23 am : link
I hated that El Camino movie the most out of all of the Breaking Bad stuff. I thought they were going to give us an update in Jesse's life in our present day (2019) but instead we got fat Todd and Jesse's camping trip.

What a useless pile of shit that was.

Let's reinforce the same ending. Jesse got away and then 6 years later ... Jesse got away.
RE: I wonder if they had originally planned on more episodes  
BlackLight : 8/10/2022 2:43 am : link
In comment 15776359 steve in ky said:
Quote:
exploring the Gene character but then when Bob Odenkirk had his heart attack they had to cut it back some?


No, the schedule was locked in probably over a year before the final episodes started shooting.

It's technically possible they had more physical stuff planned for Odenkirk in the homestretch (or more scenes and longer hours), and perhaps scaled that back after the heart attack, but it was always going to be 13 episodes.
RE: RE: I wonder if they had originally planned on more episodes  
Gmanfandan : 8/10/2022 8:04 am : link
In comment 15776449 BlackLight said:
Quote:
In comment 15776359 steve in ky said:


Quote:


exploring the Gene character but then when Bob Odenkirk had his heart attack they had to cut it back some?



No, the schedule was locked in probably over a year before the final episodes started shooting.

It's technically possible they had more physical stuff planned for Odenkirk in the homestretch (or more scenes and longer hours), and perhaps scaled that back after the heart attack, but it was always going to be 13 episodes.
My understanding is the heart attack happens during episode 8 with Lalo in the apartment with Jimmy and Kim.

Which is why in episode 9 Saul actually looks younger then in prior episodes.
RE: ......  
Section331 : 8/10/2022 9:24 am : link
In comment 15775371 Route 9 said:
Quote:
Lol. Jesse's voice is so weird. Guy on the wrong side of 40 playing a 24 year old drug dealer. He grew up right before our very eyes!


I thought the same thing, his voice was really jarring to me in that scene.
RE: ......  
OBJ_AllDay : 8/10/2022 9:49 am : link
In comment 15776365 Route 9 said:
Quote:
I hated that El Camino movie the most out of all of the Breaking Bad stuff. I thought they were going to give us an update in Jesse's life in our present day (2019) but instead we got fat Todd and Jesse's camping trip.

What a useless pile of shit that was.

Let's reinforce the same ending. Jesse got away and then 6 years later ... Jesse got away.


El Camino was terrible
I think Jimmy is going to off himself. A con man like Jimmy  
MartyNJ1969 : 8/10/2022 10:46 am : link
can not reconcile going to prison. He is going to off himself rather than face the music.
Here is my prediction for the finale -  
Section331 : 8/10/2022 11:28 am : link
Jimmy is arrested in Omaha and extradited back to Albuquerque to face the music there. Confronted with Kim’s affidavit, he has the chance to blame it all on her, but takes the blame himself, bringing a small piece of redemption for his life as a grifter.
RE: Here is my prediction for the finale -  
mfsd : 8/10/2022 11:34 am : link
In comment 15776609 Section331 said:
Quote:
Jimmy is arrested in Omaha and extradited back to Albuquerque to face the music there. Confronted with Kim’s affidavit, he has the chance to blame it all on her, but takes the blame himself, bringing a small piece of redemption for his life as a grifter.


That’s how I see it, although seems almost too predictable. Maybe he’ll own up to all his scams and shenanigans over the years, with Kim, Chuck, Howard, Walt and Jesse, Mike and Gus, etc
RE: Here is my prediction for the finale -  
BamaBlue : 8/10/2022 11:35 am : link
In comment 15776609 Section331 said:
Quote:
Jimmy is arrested in Omaha and extradited back to Albuquerque to face the music there. Confronted with Kim’s affidavit, he has the chance to blame it all on her, but takes the blame himself, bringing a small piece of redemption for his life as a grifter.


+1 Except, I don't see redemption as fade-out for the series. I think the last scene will be Saul pulling a scam while he's in prison (the leopard doesn't change his spots after all).
RE: I go against the grain  
Section331 : 8/10/2022 11:36 am : link
In comment 15776117 fkap said:
Quote:
I think Kim was far worse for Jimmy than the other way around. Jimmy pulled small scale cons until Kim amped him up, and then destroyed him by leaving, turning him into a jaded man. He was a lawyer who cut corners and schemed his way to victory. He saw the system as rigged, and had no problems breaking the law in ways that struck back at it (money laundering). Ultimately, though, he is a good guy (all that con and lawbreaking aside). Kim is the one who urged him to go against his nature and destroy Howard. Kim couldn't handle the fallout from her actions and dragged Jimmy down with her.

I don't see Kim as a sympathetic character. Even if Jimmy is bad, she doesn't become good. She's the cause of her own misfortunes. Any blame of Jimmy on that score is misguided. She turned away from an interview to win funding for doing good to return and make sure Howard went down.


I disagree. Jimmy’s entire life was framed by grifting, we have no evidence Kim was involved in anything until she met him. And after leaving Jimmy, she tries to atone for her mistakes.

Going after Howard was Jimmy’s idea, he was doing it, albeit in a petty, small manner, before Kim knew anything about it. She did push Jimmy to continue the fraud that led to Howard’s death, but even that plan was Jimmy’s.

Blaming Kim reeks of the same misogyny from Breaking Bad, when so many fans blamed Skyler, despite Walter being a murderous drug kingpin long before she knew. Not every female character is Lady MacBeth.
RE: RE: Here is my prediction for the finale -  
Section331 : 8/10/2022 11:37 am : link
In comment 15776620 BamaBlue said:
Quote:
In comment 15776609 Section331 said:


Quote:


Jimmy is arrested in Omaha and extradited back to Albuquerque to face the music there. Confronted with Kim’s affidavit, he has the chance to blame it all on her, but takes the blame himself, bringing a small piece of redemption for his life as a grifter.



+1 Except, I don't see redemption as fade-out for the series. I think the last scene will be Saul pulling a scam while he's in prison (the leopard doesn't change his spots after all).


Good call, that would be fitting!
RE: I wonder if they had originally planned on more episodes  
Optimus-NY : 8/10/2022 11:47 am : link
In comment 15776359 steve in ky said:
Quote:
exploring the Gene character but then when Bob Odenkirk had his heart attack they had to cut it back some?


My question as well.
RE: I think Jimmy is going to off himself. A con man like Jimmy  
5BowlsSoon : 8/10/2022 12:26 pm : link
In comment 15776561 MartyNJ1969 said:
Quote:
can not reconcile going to prison. He is going to off himself rather than face the music.


NO WAY, NO HOW
RE: RE: I go against the grain  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 8/10/2022 1:10 pm : link
In comment 15776623 Section331 said:
Quote:



I disagree. Jimmy’s entire life was framed by grifting, we have no evidence Kim was involved in anything until she met him. And after leaving Jimmy, she tries to atone for her mistakes.

Going after Howard was Jimmy’s idea, he was doing it, albeit in a petty, small manner, before Kim knew anything about it. She did push Jimmy to continue the fraud that led to Howard’s death, but even that plan was Jimmy’s.

Blaming Kim reeks of the same misogyny from Breaking Bad, when so many fans blamed Skyler, despite Walter being a murderous drug kingpin long before she knew. Not every female character is Lady MacBeth.



You don’t recall the opening scene of an episode with Kim as a teenager and she’s in the mall security office because she allegedly stole something? (I don’t recall what she had supposedly stolen.) Her mother came in and claimed that it wasn’t stolen and the guard let Kim go. Then when they left the mall, we find out that it was a scam to steal and they got away with it. While Kim has turned her life around to a certain extent, she’s no innocent bystander. There’s a reason “Giselle St. Claire” exists. She likes the scams. She was the main driver behind the Howard scam, not Jimmy. I don’t think it was a coincidence that the show mentioned her getting Combo off scot free for something he clearly did. While Kim means well, she’s not that far from Jimmy.

The Skylar comparison doesn’t work either because despite her faults/actions, Kim is still mostly beloved by fans. Skylar never was. IMO, she was an annoying pain in the ass. I know Walt was impossible to deal with, but that doesn’t mean Skylar wasn’t a pain in the ass too with a propensity for thinking she knew everything or was the moral center of the universe.
Section331  
fkap : 8/10/2022 1:18 pm : link
they did a flashback scene showing Kim growing up a theif con artist with a poor excuse of a mother.

She whole heartedly enjoyed cons with Jimmy.

She had it within her the whole time, but suppressed it until Jimmy. Jimmy was hesitant to show her cons, but she insisted, and then enjoyed it. Twas her idea to turn to the dark side, not him dragging her to it.

IMO, she had no right to blame Jimmy for her flaws. She should have owned up to her inability to control herself around him. Sure, leaving him would still have crushed him, and I wouldn't expect her to stay just to avoid that. It is unfair to blame his reaction to her leaving on him. But, I think she was far worse for him than him to her while they were together. She encouraged him to up his game and then left when he did. For that she deserves some blame.

Ultimately, though, regardless of whether she was to blame for Jimmy turning into full fledged Saul, I have no sympathy for her as a person. So she feels bad. So she assuaged her guilty conscience by defending the poor (until she couldn't even bring herself to do that any more). She still played a major role in Howard's death.
Totally forgot about the flashback scene,  
Section331 : 8/10/2022 1:26 pm : link
my bad. However, I don't think she blamed Jimmy as much as she blamed THEM. That they were toxic together. She thought they would both do better apart, but only she seemed to be able to (although it's debatable how much "better" she was in Fla).
I liked how  
RicFlair : 8/10/2022 1:26 pm : link
They tried to show how boring Kim’s life is now, but it looked like a nice little life. Boyfriend seemed like a nice guy, decent crib etc.
The difference between Walt and Saul.  
Ron from Ninerland : 8/10/2022 7:03 pm : link
The behavior of these characters in the endgame seems different. Gilligan is going out of his way to make Jimmy/Saul/Gene unlikable and unsympathetic in a way that he didn't do with Walter White. In the end, Walt was a murderer, but he was still a sympathetic character to an extent. Despite all his misdeeds he tried to save Hank, he successfully saved Jesse and he took down Lydia.

Gene on the other hand engineered a minor money making scam in Omaha but that wasn't good enough. He breaks into this guy's house, he may have been about to kill him and he was definitely about to kill Carol Burnett. It wasn't a twinge of guilt that prevented him, it was the realization that he didn't know how long it would take to choke an old lady out with a phone cord. To make sure we don't like him, we also saw him steal the guy's dog's ashes.
RE: The difference between Walt and Saul.  
BlackLight : 8/10/2022 10:57 pm : link
In comment 15777035 Ron from Ninerland said:
Quote:
The behavior of these characters in the endgame seems different. Gilligan is going out of his way to make Jimmy/Saul/Gene unlikable and unsympathetic in a way that he didn't do with Walter White. In the end, Walt was a murderer, but he was still a sympathetic character to an extent. Despite all his misdeeds he tried to save Hank, he successfully saved Jesse and he took down Lydia.

Gene on the other hand engineered a minor money making scam in Omaha but that wasn't good enough. He breaks into this guy's house, he may have been about to kill him and he was definitely about to kill Carol Burnett. It wasn't a twinge of guilt that prevented him, it was the realization that he didn't know how long it would take to choke an old lady out with a phone cord. To make sure we don't like him, we also saw him steal the guy's dog's ashes.


I have the exact opposite feelings about both characters. Both were anti-heroes to an extent, but it's clear that the writing has gone to far greater lengths to "explain" why Jimmy is the way he is, in efforts to humanize him. Walt never got that treatment. Ultimately, we learned that he didn't start cooking meth to set his family up financially. He did it for having one last shot at a legacy that he would've had, had he not given up his stake in Grey Matter Technologies decades earlier. The guy we met in that first episode was a vain, embittered asshole on the wrong side of his life - it just took us a few years to figure it out.

By comparison, Jimmy is a much more tragic figure. His efforts to become a lawyer may have been misguided, but they were sincere, and his brother threw cold water on it. His girlfriend/wife, herself a damaged person owing to a fucked up childhood (that again, the writers saw fit to show us), progressively pushed him into overly ambitious schemes that eventually wound up getting people killed. Her leaving him accelerated his transition into Saul Goodman, and her essentially rejecting him again over the phone years later is what launches his final string of scams that seem guaranteed to end his time on the run. He may have threatened to kill Marion because he was psychologically broken and desperate, but cold-blooded murder was never part of his DNA.
RE: RE: The difference between Walt and Saul.  
BamaBlue : 8/11/2022 12:49 pm : link
In comment 15777135 BlackLight said:
Quote:
I have the exact opposite feelings about both characters. Both were anti-heroes to an extent, but it's clear that the writing has gone to far greater lengths to "explain" why Jimmy is the way he is, in efforts to humanize him. Walt never got that treatment. Ultimately, we learned that he didn't start cooking meth to set his family up financially. He did it for having one last shot at a legacy that he would've had, had he not given up his stake in Grey Matter Technologies decades earlier. The guy we met in that first episode was a vain, embittered asshole on the wrong side of his life - it just took us a few years to figure it out.

By comparison, Jimmy is a much more tragic figure. His efforts to become a lawyer may have been misguided, but they were sincere, and his brother threw cold water on it. His girlfriend/wife, herself a damaged person owing to a fucked up childhood (that again, the writers saw fit to show us), progressively pushed him into overly ambitious schemes that eventually wound up getting people killed. Her leaving him accelerated his transition into Saul Goodman, and her essentially rejecting him again over the phone years later is what launches his final string of scams that seem guaranteed to end his time on the run. He may have threatened to kill Marion because he was psychologically broken and desperate, but cold-blooded murder was never part of his DNA.


This is a great take... makes perfect sense. +1
Just caught up  
pjcas18 : 8/11/2022 1:12 pm : link
on this was DVR'd, had to watch it twice to make sure I didn't miss anything.

Given the time they take building up characters with lengthy character arcs and slow plots, I think it's too much too soon - even if a lot of time has elapsed in "real time" it's too much on screen too soon and runs contrary to the entire show to this point.

I do not buy Kim suddenly growing a conscience. Especially after showing her life in Florida which reminded me of Henry Hill in witness protection - I would have expected more the opposite. The best part was the dude banging her "yep, yep" lol.

And Gilligan is a master at sequencing, but all the flashbacks/forwards are annoying.

Also agree on Jesse's voice. WTF? He was a grown man in Breaking Bad, is it normal for grown men's voices to change as adults or did he have COVID or some other ailment while filming his scenes?



RE: Just caught up  
mfsd : 8/11/2022 1:27 pm : link
In comment 15777538 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
on this was DVR'd, had to watch it twice to make sure I didn't miss anything.

Given the time they take building up characters with lengthy character arcs and slow plots, I think it's too much too soon - even if a lot of time has elapsed in "real time" it's too much on screen too soon and runs contrary to the entire show to this point.

I do not buy Kim suddenly growing a conscience. Especially after showing her life in Florida which reminded me of Henry Hill in witness protection - I would have expected more the opposite. The best part was the dude banging her "yep, yep" lol.

And Gilligan is a master at sequencing, but all the flashbacks/forwards are annoying.

Also agree on Jesse's voice. WTF? He was a grown man in Breaking Bad, is it normal for grown men's voices to change as adults or did he have COVID or some other ailment while filming his scenes?




Agree about Kim, more great acting and directing. From her awful haircut to frumpy clothes to expressionless bored look living with some dull schmuck, you could see the foreshadowing that she would have some kind of break. They even showed her brushing her teeth solo, while they regularly used to show her and Jimmy brushing their teeth together

Jimmys call triggered it, but I was admittedly surprised she went with a full confession. The scene with Howard’s wife was really good
RE: RE: Just caught up  
BlackLight : 8/11/2022 3:16 pm : link
In comment 15777553 mfsd said:
Quote:
In comment 15777538 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


on this was DVR'd, had to watch it twice to make sure I didn't miss anything.

Given the time they take building up characters with lengthy character arcs and slow plots, I think it's too much too soon - even if a lot of time has elapsed in "real time" it's too much on screen too soon and runs contrary to the entire show to this point.

I do not buy Kim suddenly growing a conscience. Especially after showing her life in Florida which reminded me of Henry Hill in witness protection - I would have expected more the opposite. The best part was the dude banging her "yep, yep" lol.

And Gilligan is a master at sequencing, but all the flashbacks/forwards are annoying.

Also agree on Jesse's voice. WTF? He was a grown man in Breaking Bad, is it normal for grown men's voices to change as adults or did he have COVID or some other ailment while filming his scenes?






Agree about Kim, more great acting and directing. From her awful haircut to frumpy clothes to expressionless bored look living with some dull schmuck, you could see the foreshadowing that she would have some kind of break. They even showed her brushing her teeth solo, while they regularly used to show her and Jimmy brushing their teeth together

Jimmys call triggered it, but I was admittedly surprised she went with a full confession. The scene with Howard’s wife was really good


I think Kim always blamed herself in some respect for Saul becoming what he eventually became. Their argument on the phone seems to have brought that fact home for her - Jimmy's not wrong in suggesting that Kim is a hypocrite for running from her mistakes while suggesting that he turn himself in. For better or worse, Jimmy and Kim were always the only two people who could really spin the other's head around.

Apart from being 14 years older than when we first saw Jesse in Breaking Bad, I think Aaron Paul used to smoke cigarettes. He gave it up years ago, probably after the show ended, but it might have had its effect.
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