1:10 pm EST start at Citi Field
Mets have won the season series against the Reds already (4-1). Today is the last game of the series as well as the season against the Redlegs. Tomorrow's an off-day. Hopefully Taijuan Walker responds positively to his previous start.
#LFGM!
Mets' & Reds' Starting Lineups and Starting Pitchers for today - 8/10/22 - (
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and Rosario at 3.4
So they traded away 7.5 WAR to get 4.6 WAR and 1.7 WAR (Carrasco)and paid 350 million for the privilege of doing so
Rosario and Gimenez are at 6 fWAR, Lindor and Carrasco 7.2
WAR is calculated in different ways. My numbers are from ESPN, yours are from Fangraphs.
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In comment 15777428 Vanzetti said:
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and Rosario at 3.4
So they traded away 7.5 WAR to get 4.6 WAR and 1.7 WAR (Carrasco)and paid 350 million for the privilege of doing so
Rosario and Gimenez are at 6 fWAR, Lindor and Carrasco 7.2
WAR is calculated in different ways. My numbers are from ESPN, yours are from Fangraphs.
Which again shows how ridiculous these new stats are. They are calculated differently by different people, and are based upon made up arbitrary numbers
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That is actually incorrect. The whole point of WAR is to be additive. So pitchers can be compared to hitters and defense and offense weighed together.
So a rotation of vintage Jacob Degrom and four scrubs is not better than a rotation of five Carlos Carrascos.
"I walked into the dining room looking for somebody the other day around 2:30, 3 o'clock and he had the iPad back in the corner,” said Mets manager Buck Showalter. “You know the true character of a person is what they do when nobody is looking.
Another underrated trait of Lindor is his leadership, which has impressed Daniel Vogelbach in only the 15 games he’s played in the blue and orange since he was dealt prior to the trade deadline from the Pittsburgh Pirates.
“The stuff (people) don’t see on the everyday basis is, you know, the way he leads and the leader he is in the clubhouse and the leader he is on the field,” Vogelbach said. “It’s huge for us.
If you think the Mets would be as good as they are this season with Rosario/Gimenez vs. Lindor/Carrasco we will have to truly agree to disagree and I couldn’t disagree more
That's true. But fangraphs uses FIP instead of RA9. And FIP is calculated in different ways, so Fanfraphs uses its own version of FIP, which makes the whole calculation a bit circular.
And I understand why they don't want to use RA9 since its a bit crude. But FIP is just not that good or accurate a stat, It often varies wildly from year to year with the same player.
Basically, I think WAR is still evolving as a stat and ten years from now today's WAR will appear extremely primitive. It's just really not that accurate but it is valuable because it lets all aspects of the game to be directly compared with one another. With other stats, pitching, hitting and fielding are all separate.
I'm not trying to knock the guy and I'm glad he is finally living up to his contract
But let's not turn him into some paragon. He plays hard, he studies, he does the best he can--but he is also being paid 35 million per year so I don't see those things as something special. That's what he should be doing. It's his profession.
I'm not trying to knock the guy and I'm glad he is finally living up to his contract
But let's not turn him into some paragon. He plays hard, he studies, he does the best he can--but he is also being paid 35 million per year so I don't see those things as something special. That's what he should be doing. It's his profession.
Or… as it’s been reported… McNeil was unwilling to listen to the coaches/manager when they wanted him to shift and was actually benched for not listening. Yeah, a leader takes you to task for not doing what is asked from you. According to almost everybody McNeil (for unknown reasons) was very hard to deal with last season and pretty much a “jerk” to all that came in contact with him.
As it turns out, Rojas followed through with his warning by sitting McNeil on April 22 in Chicago and April 25 at Citi Field vs. the Nationals, but it is unknown which game he was sat down for disciplinary reasons, per Puma.”
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but don’t think Degrom wants to be here. Would be very surprised if he is.
What evidence do you have of that? Just because he's opting out? That's silly. It seems obvious he gave the Coupons a discount and Jake knows he doesn't have to do that with Uncle Steve and it's no secret what Max was given.
I would guess that Jake and Cohen both want to work something out. Where else would Jake want to go and what other team will be able to afford him?
He's an east coast guy (from FL, grew up about 2 hrs from PSL), so I doubt he'll want to go to LA (where his family would rarely see him). And I think he's smarter than Thor and knows, especially now, the grass isn't greener anywhere else.
As you said, this is a guess. He's from DeLand Florida. That is deeply The South. He's very much a country guy. He owns a ranch he runs quad wheelers on and has a ridiculous custom big wheel ford truck. If he wants to finish his career in a place where he can live his regular season in the lifestyle he's comfortable with, it's not unheard of. And if outright love of the Mets was part of the equation this would not be a discussion by now, they would've had something done.
All it takes is one owner. They all have the money. It's a choice to spend it.
I'm not saying this to push a narrative, because I hope he stays, but no one should be so comfortable about it or treat it like a lock.
I would say Roberts and Rodriguez are partly on upside but I think 32 out of 32 gms take those two over nimmo for 2023. But you could talk me into Nimmo over most of them for this year.
I'm not trying to knock the guy and I'm glad he is finally living up to his contract
But let's not turn him into some paragon. He plays hard, he studies, he does the best he can--but he is also being paid 35 million per year so I don't see those things as something special. That's what he should be doing. It's his profession.
The 35 million a year is for the 162 games . Everything else is extra, which often gets incorrectly spun into the dollar sign.
It is actually cool and non-required that helped a new guy get adjusted and fit in after being traded, or that he works hard at it off hours, or that he otherwise helps teammates.
He could just be an asshole like Jeff Kent or Barry Bonds who isolates himself in a corner separate from the team. like a tower on an island.
If you think the Mets would be as good as they are this season with Rosario/Gimenez vs. Lindor/Carrasco we will have to truly agree to disagree and I couldn’t disagree more
I don't even think that's arguable, and while I'm happy that both Rosario and Giminez are playing so well, let's see if they can continue to play at such a high level. Lindor has done it.
And yes, calling McNeil out on his refusal to cooperate is leadership. I don't condone the fighting, but we don't know who started the physical part of that exchange. That both Lindor and McNeil have moved on from that incident speaks well of both.
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That's leadership?
I'm not trying to knock the guy and I'm glad he is finally living up to his contract
But let's not turn him into some paragon. He plays hard, he studies, he does the best he can--but he is also being paid 35 million per year so I don't see those things as something special. That's what he should be doing. It's his profession.
Or… as it’s been reported… McNeil was unwilling to listen to the coaches/manager when they wanted him to shift and was actually benched for not listening. Yeah, a leader takes you to task for not doing what is asked from you. According to almost everybody McNeil (for unknown reasons) was very hard to deal with last season and pretty much a “jerk” to all that came in contact with him.
Then there is the booing the fans incident.
And again not trying to knock Lindor. Good player.
But it seems to me that the Polar Bear is every bit the leader on this team. Not that you can't have more than one leader.
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two 3 WAR players.
That is actually incorrect. The whole point of WAR is to be additive. So pitchers can be compared to hitters and defense and offense weighed together.
So a rotation of vintage Jacob Degrom and four scrubs is not better than a rotation of five Carlos Carrascos.
I actually agree with the one 6.5 WAR player being more valuable because you have to add a second player like McNeil to compare the WAR. You can only play 9 players at a time. Unless I am misunderstanding the whole concept of WAR.
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two 3 WAR players.
That is actually incorrect. The whole point of WAR is to be additive. So pitchers can be compared to hitters and defense and offense weighed together.
So a rotation of vintage Jacob Degrom and four scrubs is not better than a rotation of five Carlos Carrascos.
You’d always rather have a 6.0 WAR player over two 3.0 WAR players, especially for a high payroll team. An average MLB regular is 1.5-2WAR. With the 6.0WAR player, you can add additional value from another open position.
Your DeGrom example makes no sense because why assume the other 4 pitchers would be scrubs?
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In comment 15777440 Metnut said:
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two 3 WAR players.
That is actually incorrect. The whole point of WAR is to be additive. So pitchers can be compared to hitters and defense and offense weighed together.
So a rotation of vintage Jacob Degrom and four scrubs is not better than a rotation of five Carlos Carrascos.
I actually agree with the one 6.5 WAR player being more valuable because you have to add a second player like McNeil to compare the WAR. You can only play 9 players at a time. Unless I am misunderstanding the whole concept of WAR.
Your understanding is correct and that’s why superstar players get paid so much.
As you said, this is a guess. He's from DeLand Florida. That is deeply The South. He's very much a country guy. He owns a ranch he runs quad wheelers on and has a ridiculous custom big wheel ford truck. If he wants to finish his career in a place where he can live his regular season in the lifestyle he's comfortable with, it's not unheard of. And if outright love of the Mets was part of the equation this would not be a discussion by now, they would've had something done.
All it takes is one owner. They all have the money. It's a choice to spend it.
I'm not saying this to push a narrative, because I hope he stays, but no one should be so comfortable about it or treat it like a lock.
He's originally from DeLeon Springs FL, but went to Stetson College in nearby DeLand. That's where he met his wife and where they live offseason. I actually live about an hour from there. The way you say "deeply The South" makes it sound like people of that region love their livestock a little too much. It's not like in the movie Deliverance.
Of course you could be right, but which team that can afford him, has an area nearby where he can have a ranch like he has in Florida? His parents with whom he is very close, I believe still live in DeLeon Springs. I believe his wife and her family are also from the area. From the nearby executive airport, he can probably make it to Citifield faster from there then he could drive to Miami.
I'll be very surprised if he and Cohen don't work something out and he's not back with the Mets. If the Wilpons still owned the team, it would be a totally different story.
this is one of the better (or worse based on perspective) things about baseball. I'd recognize Lindor if I saw him out - same with most of the Mets.
I read about people seeing football players or hockey players in public (mostly Anakim) and I have no clue unless it's Eli or Strahan (for example) or Sidney Crosby for a hockey example how people recognize them.
I met David Cone in a bar in New Haven - recognized him immediately. Said to the bartender - hey that guy looks like David Cone and he said "oh, you guys never met Coney - let me introduce you" - what a fun night. lol.
That's cool. Did you say - I'm glad you stopped sucking? ;>)
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Of odd coincidences… as part of my job (that has nothing to do with baseball or famous people) I just met Francisco Lindor, his gf (or wife), his daughter and a gentleman he was with but not sure who he was lol. He was smiley, nice, and just as you’d expect him to be
this is one of the better (or worse based on perspective) things about baseball. I'd recognize Lindor if I saw him out - same with most of the Mets.
I read about people seeing football players or hockey players in public (mostly Anakim) and I have no clue unless it's Eli or Strahan (for example) or Sidney Crosby for a hockey example how people recognize them.
I met David Cone in a bar in New Haven - recognized him immediately. Said to the bartender - hey that guy looks like David Cone and he said "oh, you guys never met Coney - let me introduce you" - what a fun night. lol.
Funny you mention David Cone. I was on St Marks a few years back and saw John Leguizamo and said hello to him, literally half way down the block we then saw David Cone and we actually told him we had just seen Leguizamo (who he somehow knows/knew randomly)… a block later we saw Claire Danes. It was truly bizarre